The fact that the CT publishes this article is a reminder to all that the winds of change are surely a-blowin'
http://www.collegiatetimes.com/opinion/article_614727e8-7343-11e4-8291-c...
As someone who started following VT football the same year as the writer ('99), I can certainly relate.
Whether he stays or goes, this week we should all take a moment to reflect on the good times in the 'burg or in front of our TV's during the past few decades that were in no small part due to the efforts of Frank.
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yeah.. this would be the easiest/best way IMO.. Announce on thursday mid-day that Frank will step down and will coach the last 2 games.. (see 2 games yes we will beat UVA).. We obliterate UVA and carry Frank off the field..
However I don't think Whit will announce anything till after the UVA game/bowl game. If we win and win big Beamer might have an easier time to tell Whit look we had a bad year but look what we can build off of.
Seems like a pussy way of going about things. Don't send that to the CT, send that to the man himself and put your name on it.
Well said. I knew I didn't like something about it and you explained it perfectly.
Whole heartedly agree! The one question I keep going back to is: "Why would Babcock extends Frank's contract at the beggining of the season, even if you didn't foresee this implosion, unless you had made a commitment to keep him beyond next year?"
It was mainly a recruiting tactic, even just for this year. Made sure other coaches couldn't use the "Beamer won't be there when you enroll" against him.
Seems like a fairly expensive recruiting tactic considering the very small chance, at the time of the decision, that he might not last until 2018!
It still made sense at the time, trying to get rid of the 2016 tactic that coaches could use against VT before then.
that's the game tho and it's pretty much done by all schools, unless they are too cheap to cut bait and hire another coach.
Is Tony Torres of Fairfax, VA not the name of the author?
maybe so. missed that.
Good catch.
The fact that there is a comma after "A proud and grateful Hokie" makes me think that was a closing to the letter and the name has been redacted for some reason.
Also, there are different ways to send a message to someone, and utilizing a public medium makes it a little harder to ignore than just crumpling up a private letter and throwing it in the trash.
Ah, the CT... the short bus of sports reporting.
Enrolled in '97 and waited until '99 to become a fan...
Gotta test the waters, man!
If that's a qoute from the article, I refuse to read it.
I'm the one who wrote the letter and I stand by it. I didn't like football prior to that year, but I've been obsessed with VT football ever since and never missed a game since. I'm well aware of the history of the program. I love Frank Beamer and have nothing but respect for him. I want him to go out the right way rather than be fired. That is why I wrote the letter. By all means though...don't read it.
Good man, all valid. I want him to go out the right way too, but I think another year will give him a better opportunity to do so than stepping down now would.
So glad you're here. I agree with all of your sentiments about it, but as I've said around here before, I still think 2016 should be the Beamer farewell tour. At that point, we'll know what we have in Loeffler, we'll have seen the entire rebuilding effort all the way through, and we'll know what we have for the next coach to inherit.
+1 for owning it. While I disagree with your opinion, its good to see someone on that side of the argument basing it on a deep respect and appreciation for Coach Beamer.
Welcome and thanks for sharing a well-reasoned opinion. I disagree with you on the timing (I think Frank gets 1-2 more years), but I appreciate the fact that you recognize Beamer's impact and I think you're actually coming from a great standpoint - someone who didn't care about football but became, as you say, "obsessed" thanks to what Hokie football was doing at that time. And Beamer was behind that, so I think that's more a tribute to his legacy than the flip-side, which is people poking fun at your timing or implying that you became a fan out of convenience.
Which I personally think is childish to begin with. Great, so you didn't like the guy's opinion. That doesn't make it acceptable to take a hatchet to the guy's personality in an effort to discredit his character.
"take a hatchet to the guy's personality in an effort to discredit his character."
Really now? A big harrumph, to you to.
I was poking fun, yes. That is what I am here for...to have fun.
I will leave the crisis management to the full time posting professionals here. Sorry that I am childish, lol, but again..."taking a hatchet to his personality?"
Wow.
I was mainly referencing things like this:
I just sprayed coffee all over my office when I read this. HAHA!
Fair enough! I just read it. Well thought out & good points made. I appreciate the level headed response to my post. I can absolutely appreciate becoming a fan of Hokie football & college football in general after those seasons. My brother's freshman year was 97 & mine was 99. Those were some fun games.
I hope you're ok after that "hatcheting of your personality". I just didn't see a point of a letter to the editor of the college paper as way to invoke change, and by not seeing the name in letter seemed like weaker sauce.
All the best,
Daniel
I'll survive! :)
My name is on there. They just printed it at the top for some reason. Also, the headline was not mine and I would have said retire not resign.
Sounds like something our old friend VTCane would have done.
yuuuuuup. i stopped reading there too.
Know Im getting older when I said this out loud in "her" voice and no one around me knew what i was doing.
Yeah the guy who wrote it, cyricvt , posted it under a recent TSL article as well. He brings up excellent points, while remaining level-headed and not denying all of the good Beamer has brought to the program, that wouldn't have been attainable without him.
Here's my thoughts on Beamer right now. Bad things happen, both in life and football. That's just the nature of college football - no one stays up for long, especially these days. With Beamer, we have a coach who has proven to have significantly more good than bad throughout a very long career (big sample size). We're starting to catch up in terms of off-field resources available to the coaching staff (indoor practice facility, new recruiting positions, etc.). All of our playmakers are freshmen right now (not a single senior has scored a TD) for a team that has been absolutely devastated by injuries in the midst of trying to rebuild a program suffering from a lack of experienced talent due in large part to mistakes made by Beamer and his previous staff. Had Beamer let it go as-is, I'd be concerned. However, we're seeing a distinct uptick in recruiting (maybe not rankings, but the 4-stars we're getting now are much more college-ready players than the 4-stars we were getting before - see Ford vs. Caleb as a good case study there) and there's plenty of promise on this team.
As for his staff....
Bud is Bud. There we go.
I'm inclined to give Lefty a pass for this year as well for 4 reasons.
1) The last time he was actually put in a position to succeed (Temple), he did. He had about equivalent talent to his opposition and the players fit his scheme nicely. The result: a top-10 rushing attack in the country
2) He has yet to coach a single QB for more than 8 months. That's brutal when you're trying to rebuild an offense like Loeffler's.
3) We've seen good gameplans come together - OSU, Miami ('13), even Bama are good examples - despite a lack of legit playmaking threats.
4) The injury report. I know, I know, we hate to use injuries as an excuse. But still, can we really expect to see one coherent offensive identity come together when your top 3 running backs and 3 offensive linemen are hurt either for significant stretches or for the year? That seems to be asking a little much. Yes, the Wake game was as ugly as it possibly could have been. Yes, we've seen breakdowns in execution and a few questionable playcalls. Still, considering I've lost count of the number of times I've seen people suggest that "the OC needs to be able to adapt to what he's got," I'm surprised we're all so quick to jump at his throat when he does just that.
Back to Beamer: He's proven he can be successful, and he's been actively working to correct systemic issues in the program for the past 3 years. He's changed up his staff, recruiting strategy, practice schedule, you name it. This isn't a coach who's gotten complacent and out of touch. If we limp along to another 4-6 wins next year, yeah, I could see strong justification for change. Right now though? I still think it's premature.
Being nitpicky here but your point #3 is not true.
Loeffler started in 2013. Brenden Motley enrolled in 2012. Motley has had over a year of coaching under Loeffler. I realize not the starter's amount of tutelage but he has been around for longer than 8 months. It seems relevant when a lot of people here are clamoring for Motley to start.
Ah, good point. I guess I should have clarified that I was talking about a starting QB. And we haven't seen one QB start the spring, start the fall, and then start the next spring. Unless you're Alabama or FSU, a first-year starter at QB usually brings some growing pains.
Plus, he's already said one of his biggest mistakes last year was focusing so much on Logan, to the detriment of his next 2 guys. I doubt Motley got a whole lot of work as the #3 guy last year.
If we don't do anything now, we give Loeffler an extension to continue coaching. What on earth has that man done to deserve an extension? And yes, his contract runs out in January it's either extension or release.
If we release him we admit that Beamer failed that last round of hiring, the third time in a many tries he failed at hiring a competent OC (Stiney, O'Cain, Loeffler). If we extend the contract we, fairly or unfairly, show all our recruits and donor base we are content and happy with the level at which we are playing. Either way we are kind of screwed, but we are worse off in retaining because I legitimately think we will see a massive drop off in giving and attendance next year if changes are not made, which will significantly impact our bottom line.
The problem then is, if you release Loeffler, who can you convince to come in here as a temporary stop gap OC knowing they're likely gone in a season or two when Frank retires?
I don't buy the notion that a proven OC wouldn't consider VT because Frank is near retirement. If the guy is good enough then he believes he can have a real shot at being the next HC, so Frank's departure is viewed as an opportunity. We would also need to show any new OC the money and let him bring in his guys. The problem is that the 2nd point is not likely as it relates to Stiney and Shane.
I would prefer change now but if we wait until next year it will not be the doomsday scenario you predict. It will be a continued gradual decline until the product improves.
Well said. From all that we have seen and heard, Whit is an excellent AD and is capable of planning for both the short and long term. I have full faith that if we decide to let Loeffler walk, Beamer and Whit will work together to provide a great plan for us moving forward.
I believe having Beamer's retirement on the horizon could be used to our benefit. Informing an OC that there is potential for growth could help us. Whit would need to be honest with potential OC hires and Bud as to what may happen (I still think Bud would want to have the option to take HC duties) but thus far he seems like a stand-up guy and has the moral integrity that Virginia Tech athletics wants to uphold.
In the coaching profession longevity is a rarity. A young up and coming OC will have a perfect stage to show how good he is and quite possibly propel himself into a HC job, maybe even here. The bigger issue is finding someone that fits in the current framework. A new OC is only going to have maybe 1 spot open to bring in "their guy" since I don't see Shane or Stiney getting booted and Moorehead should be kept. That leaves SS and switching OL coaches for the 3 time in 3 seasons doesn't seem like a great idea either.
Sure, longevity is a rarity, but nobody is going to take a job at that level knowing it is a 2 year max deal where no matter what there is a very good chance you're gone at that time. Around 4 or 5 years is the norm right now. At the very least, how can you recruit anyone when it would be widely known that you won't be there after the kid's freshmen or sophomore season.
Combine that with your second point and.... There is absolutely no way this works out for us going forward. We do this move, try to bring in a guy for 1-2 years max, knowing he cannot bring in the staff he wants because we have to keep Stiney, Shane, and Moorehead (and maybe Searels)... I mean, who in their right mind outside of the absolutely desperate because nobody else is willing to take him would be willing to come here?
I said it yesterday and I'll say it again today. There is only one decision to be made at season's end. Is Frank Beamer our coach in 2015? If so, you retain Loeffler, keep the staff intact, and plow forward. If not, you clean house and immediately start the process of finding the replacement, who comes in with full autonomy to round out the staff as he sees fit. If Bud Foster is a part of that formula, great. If not? It'll suck, but we'll manage.
There is another option, you promote someone already on the staff ala Moorehead. If he's already here then he "knows he's gone when Frank's gone" so that part is already taken care of. I have no clue if it's the right move or not but it works in the framework.
At the end of the day no one knows what Whit's going to do. Based off of what he did with the basketball team we know he thinks big. I have a feeling that the game this weekend will be watched closely by Whit and make a difference in the decision he ultimately makes.
Between 2012 and 2013 (the last year for which I could find data), 30 of 125 FBS head coaches lost their jobs or changed jobs. Coaches realize turnover is the name of the game and don't think something is going to last forever. To say that "nobody" (by which you probably mean "nobody worth signing") would sign up to be Beamer's next OC is completely incorrect. It would not be a two year MAX deal. With a good OC, Beamer could stay to the end of his current contract, that being 4 more years. Be successful on offense at VT and you have a very visible bullet on your resume for another OC gig or HC gig.
I think that the biggest decision is whether to retain Beamer but it's not the only decision. I lean towards not retaining him but if Whit does keep him I don't think it's as ridiculous as many others seem to think. I believe the current staff, if retained, will give us 8-4 or better next season absent key injuries. There is a lot of young talent on both sides of the ball right now. QB for me is the big question.
The deciding factor that makes me want to move on is that I believe this program is a very attractive head coaching destination and Whit would hire the best available talent. We are not far enough removed from success for the luster of the program to have faded in the eyes of a new coaching candidate. I worry that if Frank stays too long that the program has a sustained decline (worse performance, worse recruits, fewer fans) and is not as attractive of a coaching destination in the future.
I fully agree with your points. I agree that right now we are still a very attractive HC'ing job. With the young offensive talent that we have and the POSSIBLE big time signings of Settle and Sweat, we have a bright future. With that being said, I would hate for that to be the reason to keep our current staff and see little to no improvement over the next 3-4 years and waste the talent that we have. In my mind, the most attractive thing for us to do after the season is say goodbye to Loeffler and make BIG time efforts to try and get Chad Morris to Blacksburg. I believe that combining Morris with Bud, it's game over. We may not win a NC, but we would return to being a dominant team in the ACC and top 10 in the nation. That way, CFB would get to ride out on top the way he wants to, while making our program a bright spot to high profile recruits across the country. With Morris being one of the highest, if not highest paid assistant coaches in the country(Don't know the exact data on that), it would probably take a promise of being the next head coach. I, just like the guy who wrote the article to the CT, attended my first Tech game in 1999 and fell in love with the program. To this day, nothing comes between me and VT football. I have as much respect for Frank Beamer as anybody out there and I would hate to see his legacy be diminished by sticking around with Loeffler and being mediocre-bad for the next 3-4 years. I also realize that Morris' offensive mindset is drastically different than that of Beamer which could possibly throw a wrench in the whole thing. But with the current status of our offense and the numbers our offense has put up over the last 3 seasons, I would have to imagine that Frank has some sort of change in mindset. Could be wrong, just my opinion.
I disagree that there is a 2 year max.
Agreed we bring in somebody competent, if Bud is promoted do you seriously think he is going to replace a competent OC when Frank retires?
Not even that, if we bring in a competent OC, that may keep Frank here till the end of his contract which isn't until after the 2018 season.
I think the contract issue definitely makes things much more complicated because, as you said, it's not simply a "keep him or cut him" type of deal. Personally, having seen him coach and watching the gameplan come together (successfully or not) both during and after games (thanks to our excellent TKP film reviewers), I still believe he's a good enough coach to keep around. I'm actually quite confused as to why we only gave him a 2-year contract, considering we knew things were gonna take some time to rebuild. At the very least, he'll have left the offense in a better spot talent-wise than it was when he got here.
That last point is probably my biggest concern. The VT OC job is just not a good one right now, IMO. It's a unit in complete rebuild mode with a coach that's under quite a bit of heat right now and nearing retirement. Plus, if we get rid of Loeffler, we tell the next guy, "hey, we know there are a lot of issues with this offense and it won't be fixed overnight. Oh, and by the way, you've got 2 years tops to fix all of those issues." I'd be in favor of a one-year extension for Lefty and then re-evaluating after next year. Three years is a reasonable amount of time for the dumpster fire he stepped into and everything he's had to deal with this season. If next year has more Miami and Wake-looking games and not more OSU and '13 Miami games, then you wish him well and show him the door.
*EDIT* RE: Contract
Aha! I knew a 2-year contract seemed fishy. Here's the scoop, from the Washington Post announcement of his hiring. He makes a certain amount up until June of this year, when his buyout with Auburn ends (Auburn stops paying most of his salary). Then, Tech starts paying his full salary ($400k) throught the 2015 season. He's got one more year to right the ship, and I think he should get that year.
In a way, I agree.... but at the same time, if it doesn't work... what then? I mean, as we both said, it'll be hard to bring in a guy this year knowing we have all these issues and to tell him you have 2 years, max to work it all out... It would be damn near impossible to do the same after next year for a 1 year rental if the understanding is that Beamer is retiring at the end of 2016.
Its a very tough decision, and one which would have been remedied by simply giving Loeffler the 4 year deal up front. We're in a complete damned if you do, damned if you don't situation, especially knowing that Beamer's retirement is imminent. For me, its almost to that point where if all we're doing is sitting around waiting for Beamer to retire before we can make the changes that desperately need to be made to bring us back to relevance, then as much as it'll suck short term because of how much Frank has meant to the program, it's in our best interests to speed that timeline up.
See the edit above. He's got 1 more year on his contract already, it was just the pay scale that was a bit confusing. I think that should make Frank/Whit's decision a bit easier, but they'll still have to make one at the end of the season.
THIS. In the real world you have to meet or exceed expectations to keep your job. SL not only hasn't even met expectations, he has put out several embarassing performances (Pitt, Miami, Wake) in front of a national audience. Also, the expectations weren't that high coming off of the Stinespring/O'Cain era. C'MON MAN!
What has been done to set him up for success? Has he taken a deep, talented roster and run it into the ground (*ahem* Florida)? I find myself almost continually asking this question: what would a "competent" coordinator have done differently given the same circumstances as Loeffler? That is, an OL that's banged up and lacks talent in at least 3/5 positions, 3 talented RBs - none of whom are playing due to injury, 3 outstanding playmakers out wide - all of whom are freshmen and are only now just getting to the point where they run routes and do the little things correctly, and a first-year starter at QB.
Tell me one aspect of this offense where you can look at it and say, "yeah, he definitely should've done better given [this]" because I really can't.
Its not about competence, its about results. You stated earlier that he was successful at Temple because 'he was put in a position to succeed.' How many years was he at Temple (and were talking about frickin Temple here)? 1 year.
He goes to Auburn. Historically bad, year. He was not put in a position to succeed.
He goes to VT. First year, eh, wasn't put in a position to succeed. 2nd year, well, due to injuries, young players, depth, the list goes on and on, he wasn't put in a position to succeed.
Maybe he can put himself in a better position to succeed.
Well he damned better succeed next year.
Im not going to even comment on your 'one aspect'.
Exactly. Its about results.
VT total offense rankings:
75th in 2012
91st in 2013
93rd in 2014
VT PPG rankings:
83rd in 2012
101st in 2013
99th in 2014
Those are some bad results and would get you fired pretty much anywhere else in the country.
http://www.thekeyplay.com/virginia-tech-football/2014/11/8081/demon-deac...
Beamer is not going anywhere until after 2016. That's what's going to happen. I'm sure Frank and Whit had a discussion earlier this year on the state of the program and where he thought we'd be. Probably not here but I doubt it was far off. Frank has said all along this was going to be an up and down year and it has. I'm sure for some of the reasons he thought of and some he didn't. Frank believes we will be really good in 2015. He said that at the beginning of the year if I'm not mistaken. We may be a little worse off than what Frank and others, most of us I'm sure, thought we would be at this time in the season. But we can still end at 7-5 which we did in 2012. If next year is another crap year as this is then I bet at the end of the season Frank announces that he will coach through 2016 and then take up whatever position in the athletic department is in his contract at the conclusion of that year. The only way he stays after 2016 is if we are legit National Title contenders coming into 2017. Frank isn't leaving this year or next. Whit and him talk I'm sure and are on the same page. I doubt Frank is dodging Whit's calls and telling his secretary to tell Whit that he isn't in when Whit stops by. Loeffler may be gone after this year but I bet he gets at least one more year. If his offensive plans dont' come to fruition in 2015 he is done for sure IMO.
I completely agree with this. What did Frank say after the Ohio St. game? He has known what we have this whole time, we just didn't believe him or thought he was talking coach speak.
After the smoke clears, the dust settles, and people are exhausted from typing on their keyboards, Frank Beamer will still be coach next year. While your words here speak of rage and change, only a small percentage of Hokie fans visit this web site (and the other Hokie fan sites) to read your words of wisdom.
Now if you have a $10 Million check that you can place on the AD's desk, you might be able to influence the AD's decision.
Every college football team goes through a dry spell. Just in case you missed that. I say again, every college football team goes through a dry spell. In the Navy aboard my ship we called that the Shitist touch. We were teased by the Ohio State win that this might be a special season. It was Frank Beamer who warned folks that there is a lot of football to be played and there are a lot of good teams on the schedule, and they had a lot of young inexperienced players.
The winning streak against UVa cannot last forever. Even if UVa wins Friday's game, the last time they won was 2004? Can you not live with a 10-1 win advantage against UVa?
So, unless there is a nuclear war, a comet strikes the earth and wipes out all life, or ebola goes airborne and resists all efforts of containment ... there will be a 2015 college football season and Frank Beamer will Head Coach, even if you have $10 Million laying around somewhere.
While I agree, the percentage isn't as small as you would think, especially with those who are actual donors to the program and those who show up in force to Hokie Club/Alumni events. And the Athletic Dept does keep tabs on these sites to take a pulse of what the donor base is thinking, that I know for a fact.
and your fact is based on? I believe the percentage is as small as i think. How many folks do you think visit here and read these words of wisdom? It would be interesting for this site and others to publish the number of unique visitors to their sites ... I am sure their internet service provider keeps such statistics.
Being told that by people within the Athletic Dept.