Start in 3, 2, 1.... go
Okay, I thought last night I had finally reached my boiling. Pep Hamilton withdraws, which you can't blame him for if he is being offered the Forty Niners OC position when/if Greg Roman takes the Jacksonville job. At the same, the failure to hire Hamilton is a perfect case study in not making the coaching change immediately after the final regular season game. Every single person that can whisper seems to think this has been in the works for a long time, and by waiting until the NFL coaching carousel charged up while allowing his current staff to find new homes Frank screwed the pooch big time.
Then, Chuck "Third and Long" became the cause of upping my blood pressure, or it is David Teel trolling the hell out of Hokie nation. No matter what the numbers say about Chuck Long, Oklahoma's fan base was eager for him to head out of town, and he ran a hodge podge system where sometimes they wanted to be a power running team, but most of the time they featured a ton of screens and the reputation for not being able to dominate the front seven in big games.
A second name came to the front today, former Auburn OC Scot Loeffler. Loeffler had an impressive track record of adjusting his offensive system to fit personnel, but he was an abject failure at Auburn, but the system he has spent most of the time teaching is a single-wing based spread that features the quarterback as a primary power runner.
The third name, mention by Blacksburg radio host Kyle Bailey, is Redskins quarterbacks coach Matt Lafleur. While he might be a hot property based on the Redskins success with the read option and the pistol, his offense is grounded in the one back stretch zone play made famous by Mike Shannahan in Denver.
Now, I think all of us can debate which guy is the best coordinator, but the quality of the candidates isn't what has me so upset. If you review all the resumes of the rumored names, one thing stands out. EVERY SINGLE ONE RUNS A WILDLY DIFFERENT OFFENSIVE SYSTEM, WITH HUGE VARIENCES IN FUNDAMENTALS AND SKILLSETS REQUIRED FOR SUCCESS. Trey Edmunds would be ideal in a power I running offense, but is the best fit for Long's odd spread system. JC Coleman is the type of scatback that was utilized in Auburn and Rich Rod's system at WVU/Michigan, and Logan has the build to be the power runner in Loeffler's Florida HUHN system. Drew Harris is an ideal fit for Lafleur's one back zone stretch offense, but Logan Thomas is a horrible fit for the bootleg based play action part of the scheme. The offensive line is would need a crash course in each concept. To me, this clearly means that the decision maker (Frank Beamer) isn't sure of what he wants, and the only way this system change works is if the new offensive staff has full playcalling autonomy and coaches that believe in the system.
My friends, something is rotten in the air of Denmark. The leaking of so many potential candidates names are being floated to measure public reaction. The variety of systems suggest that Beamer isn't sure of what he wants. None of these hints are the action of someone who won't hedge their bets if the experiment is working as well as we hope by October of next season. But, without bringing in a strong, sound offensive mind that Beamer will give autonomy to and support in the same manner as he has with Bud Foster, the Hokies are doomed to be at best a regional power, and at worst a middling team in the ACC Coastal.
Thank you for the forum.
Comments
At least we have about 4 running backs to choose from and each one would fit nice in one of these offenses. I just don't know if this team can handle another change of personnel like they did in the 2012-13 season, especially the returners on the offensive line and Logan Thomas.
But hey, I don't think anything can be worse than what Stinespring did from 2006-08 and what Stinespring and O'cain did in 12-13. At least I hope not.
Stinespring to be minister of misinformation...
and director of smokescreens and leaks~
Drew Harris
What's his status? He was supposed to enroll this winter, and it was stated that if he couldn't get in he'd look elsewhere.
That's about as much of a mystery as who will be coordinating the offense next season.
I disagree about Scott Loeffler. What makes you think he runs a spread scheme?
http://www.youtube.com/watch?v=l4PXccv2goI Watch this from Auburn. Looks more "Pro-Style" than anything.
Then look at his offense from his year at temple, none of these runs look like a single wing spread http://www.youtube.com/watch?v=Xz55GBZmt2Q
I am watching the Penn State vs Temple game from 2011, and this offense looks exactly like the Urban Meyer spread (which is derived from the single wing). Shotgun. Cross-face read option. Lots of motion and play action. The only difference is that the QB isn't running as much (but nobody runs as much as Florida did with Tebow in this offense) so I would compare it to Urban Meyer's offense with Alex Smith, Chris Leak, and John Brantley.
http://www.youtube.com/watch?v=UZe_GsNOW0U
The Hokie offense was supposed to look like this and Clemson's offense this year, and we saw what happened. Harris and Edmunds are not great fits for running from the pistol or shotgun unless it is Harris running the zone stretch from pistol.
That's interesting that we see two different things from different games. Wonder what his bread and butter is? It didn't look like in the Alabama game that much was ran from the shotgun or pistol, other than a couple of draw plays and stuff on 3rd and long.
Eh, this smells like conspiracy theory
Nobody has confirmed anything on Long, LaFluer expressed interest in the job, NOT the other woah around. As much fun as speculation about the new OC has been, this column takes all the fun out of it for me. How about we just wait and see how this turns out before we burn Frank AND our new OC in effigy?
And I'd like to see where you got the OU fans hating Chuck Long. The OU fans I've talked to love him, compared him favorably to Mike Leach (which does NOT fit with the Beamer I know and leads more credence to calling that rumor bs).
Ok, anti-rant rant over.
I will let some other folks respond to what OU fans and beat writers thought of Chuck Long, but I am not a clever enough writer to make up Chuck "Third and" Long.
As for "hanging Frank," his biggest offensive talent decides his future by Tuesday, so that is Beamer's timetable (unless for reason I can't understand he wants Logan out of the program.) To me, this fits a predictable pattern that we have seen from Beamer over the last couple of years. Loyalty to the staff, even when counterproductive; and then hemming and hawing and looking for backdoors instead of making a decision and being accountable (see Danny Coale and the fake punt.) Without knowing anything, and until someone inside the program tells me otherwise, I believe the following:
1) Pep Hamilton was their first choice, and Beamer has been in contact with him, confident that they would land him, since the Miami game (maybe sooner.)
2) Beamer did not have a contingency plan when Hamilton changed his mind.
3) Beamer is reaching out to people who have had some success, but are not immediate theats to want the head coaching job if he wants Shane to succeed him. Please note, if these are folks he interviewed in Nashville, we would have heard about them sooner.
4) Beamer is floating names to be reported as "sources" by media outlets who will not go to print with the staff being the source of information, and both he and Shane are measuring the reaction by the general fan base and the boosters.
I love what Beamer did for the program, and despite my rants, I am perfectly happy with a team that can win the ACC each year. I am happy with that because I am old enough to remember how completely irrelevant this program was when I was 10 years old growing up in Southwest Virginia (while I called myself a Washington Huskies/BYU fan.) I may be completely wrong, and I probably am. If this negatively impacts my credibility, so be it. But, I am sure that Virginia Tech needs an offensive coaching staff that uses the same concept as Bud Foster on defense.
1) Select a true system, where the staff teaching the system understand the fundamental skill set each position needs and recruits to that skillset. Preach attention to detail and do things right on every play. Take talent, and "coach them up" rather than depend on that talent to make up for a bad playcall.
2) Have a playcaller with experience in that system, who not only knows the goals and objectives of each play inside and out, but has the feel for when to call them in game. If that means running a power lead 20 times, then mixing in some play-action, so be it.
3) Whatever the system is, instill in the offense the same bully mentality that the defense has. Each player must have the attitude that, win or lose, the guy on the other side of the line hurts more than you the next day.
The first day of training camp on day 1 with the Packers, Vince Lombardi walked into a locker room that had seven future Hall of Famers (Paul Hornung, Bart Starr, Forest Gregg, Jim Taylor, Ray Nitschke, Henry Jordan, Jim Ringo) but they were coming off a 1-10-1 season. The first thing Lombardi told them according to Bart Starr was:
"GENTLEMEN. We are going to RELENTLESSLY chase perfection, knowing full and well that we will never catch it. But we will RELENTLESSLY pursue it. And, as result of our work, we will capture EXCELLENCE."
Nick Saban didn't build his dynasty by recruiting the best players. He created the best system, won, and then the best wanted to play there. Stanford hasn't been winning with five star talent. Hell, our own Hokies did it in the 90's. Virginia Tech can be a dominant program, but they must be bring back the attitude and the attention to detail that brought them from the college football netherworld in the first place.
I really believe based on observations (somewhat inside but not absolute info) that there is some really big stuff about to come out of Merryman. This is why I believe that there has not been any formal announcements of firings or reassignments. Its bigger than that involving Weaver and the entire operation. I could be wrong but that's my take on what I've heard. Awesome post by French
French,
We'll have to leave the Chuck Long thing alone, then. Frankly, I don't believe he is/was a serious candidate for the job. Now they I've said that, I'm sure I'll be proved totally wrong.
I don't buy Beamer floating candidates to gauge public approval. He's not an elected official and he's proven for the last how many years he doesn't give a damn about the fans' approval rating of his offensive staff.
While his game planning leaves something to be desired, I refuse to believe he was fully focused on Pep with no contingency plan. Pep was first choice, and when that fell through, he pursued other candidates like anyone logical would. If he's talking to people with a variety of offensive philosophies, that's fine. As far as I can tell, he's not talked to anyone with Chip Kelly mentality, but he's still exploring what's out there, which we may have Shane to thank for. But reading your words, I'm getting a mental image of Frank hitting the panic button when Pep declined, and I seriously doubt that.
And I agree that Logan's decision is critical, but I would prefer they take the time to do a proper evaluation and get this hire right, for the long term good of the program. If Logan leaves because of the OC hiring process, that sucks, but he's not the only good QB to come through the program. I'd prefer the right guy in the job, someone that Logan is hopefully happy with, but let's not pick a guy because it means LT3 stays when this guy could be the next Stinespring.
A topic for another day is hiring people who would not represent a threat to Shane's "succession", which I don't buy. Not commenting on whether or not Shane would make a good HC, I just don't think Frank is going on what's best for his son, he wants what's best for the program and he wants to win HIS NC.
Last thing (to end on a positive note), I couldn't agree more on the offense getting a bully attitude. I think that's what our entire fan base wants. I don't care if we're winning games 28-3 next year as long as it's because our offense is possession, methodical and beating the piss out of the guy across the line from you. And don't let any of this obscure the fact that your film review is one of the highlights of the week during the season!
to draw a non-football analogy
as a musician, I have a certain level of talent and ability from playing my whole life. This allows me to look really, really good to the untrained eye even when I am a bit rusty.
That being said, I still practice the fundamentals on a daily basis. It's not practicing for practice sake, or just playing a lot, but rather deliberate practice utilizing accepted theory and technique meant to address weaknesses, maintain my current skill set, and improve on my strengths. This is where I gain street cred with other musicians, not just my untrained friends and family.
If I didn't do this I could bumble through life getting by on my talent alone and feeling pretty good in front of drunks or beginners. But if I want to play with the "big" boys I need to practice and practice well.
I have zero insider visibibility into the program, but your comments on attention to detail really struck a chord (pun intended of course) with me, and makes me wonder if that is what is going on in regard to our record in the BCS/games against top-5 teams. Add in all the discussion on our offensive players in the NFL and the success that they are enjoying (Royal, Brown, etc), despite playing at an order of magnitude higher in competition, and I go from frustrated to pretty pissed off. It seems to me that a clean sweep of the offensive coaching staff, with any candidate who can implement this attention to detail if in fact it is lacking, will reap rewards immediately.
Plus 1 to that
Lets get an OC with a system and have him bring position coaches in to get players coached up.
Every Hokie fan should just agree to stay off of every social networking site until something is official.
Nightmare
I had this nightmarish thought that maybe CFB isn't going to replace Stinespring at all. That maybe he's just trying to light a fire under the guy and inspire him to "do better". I really doubt this would ever happen but I'm assuming the worst so i can't be disappointed.
Well, it wouldn't make any sense to base our offense on ...
...LTs capabilities. AT BEST he's here one more year. Yes, we have a diverse set of RBs and an OL that HAS NEVER BEEN COACHED BEFORE....so, bright side, blank slate!
It's seems we are considering OCs and offensive identities. Those two things are pretty inseparable. I think we also are caught up in a VT centric world where we have our choice. We don't.
Even if we hired Pep after the UVa game, if he were offered by SF I think he would have taken it. Our own DB coach did the same thing. Torrian accepted an offer by Golden at Temple then a couple weeks later we made the staff shakeups that lead to Ward, Ball and Pearman leaving and Gray, Sherman and Newsome arriving.
While I understand the frustration,
we all have to remember something. Every job search, every open position, whether advertized or not advertized, has to have two people: one that can offer the position, and one that wants it. We don't know if some of these rumored applicants sought out CFB. It's been fairly common knowledge that we're in the market for an OC. If, for example, Chuck Long contacted Frank, Frank wouldn't be doing due diligence not to at least talk to the guy. We all want this resolved soon, but I keep saying it....deep breath, folks!
My Points of Contention with your Rant
I think it's nothing more than an assumption to believe had Beamer canned the staff after the Virginia game, and made a formal offer to Pep, that we stood a better chance of landing Pep. If we believe he's been in contact with him for a while, who knows what was said between them. For all we know Pep could have told Frank he'd like to be professional too, and table any discussions until after his (Rose) bowl game. Beamer could have made a silent offer, again who knows, really only Pep, Beamer, and probably a select few others, but I don't think any of us. Furthermore, NFL money and opportunity trumps. If Pep had come onboard before our bowl, and Stanford's, he still might have left town if the NFL came calling. Look at what happened in Charlottesville, and that just SEC allure.
Winning the battle in the box almost always correlates to a successful rushing attack, and a rushing attack needs the offensive line to win the battle in the trenches in order to be successful. Long was listed as Oklahoma's offensive coordinator from 2002-05. So, I used sports-reference.com to look up Oklahoma's rushing numbers in "big" games. In my analysis, a "big" game was either a bowl or championship game, or when Oklahoma played any opponent that was ranked, Texas, or Oklahoma State.
The statistics don't support your narrative.
Loeffler was handed a dumpster fire at Auburn and asked to score points with it. Either way, it's on his resume, and he has to own it.
I don't mind Beamer interviewing 100 different candidates that do 100 different things, to me that's due diligence, something that's long overdue in Blacksburg.
Yes Beamer struck out with Pep, but sometimes that happens when you swing for the fences. I'm not going to fault him for that. Everyone needs to rant sometimes, and this has been a frustrating process for me too, but we haven't hired anyone, no football has been played. I'm taking a wait and see approach. The majority of us wanted change, but it ain't easy or cheap.
I'm very content
that the pot is churning at this point. We've all been whipped into a frenzy, and we're frothing at the mouth (well, hopefully only figuratively, at least) for a change. I think what most of us were most fearful of is that no change would be made. It's patently obvious that change is on the way....which is what I'm happy about. For now, all we can do is wait (and type...and froth a bit more).
Blocking is the only answer
I dont know if it even matters, I, spread, wing t, veer, etc...etc. I think if you can block, you can run the football. It doesnt matter what formation/ philosiphy you have. Bama ran out of 4 wide, and 3 reciever sets and pounded the ball. We need an offensive line thats pissed off. All season long RB's were getting tackled in the backfield, and logan was running for his life almost all the time. I know Newsome is a good recruiter, but I think VT needs a little more than a Pop Warner coach as an OL coach. Duane Brown was quoted as saying that he didnt know technique well enough when he went to the Texans. Now look at him, he's one of the premiere tackles in the NFL. To Quote French, "we need a ball busting tyrant as an offensive line coach." I agree, and a little technique wouldnt hurt either.
Russ Grimm for OC
Bring back Cody as a GA.
Let me share some thoughts
I am a writer for Gobbler Country dot com, and at the conclusion of the UVa game, I wrote a commentary for GC that there is a need for change, so I'm going to capture some points.
* The multiple playbook needed to be junked. I loved, loved that they installed the pistol. I was adovcating for that when Tyrod was here, and I wish they had installed it back then because it would have taken advantage of his scrambling ability and David Wilson.
*The interior of the OL was the major weakness this season, leading me to believe Curt Newsome needed to go. Ironically, the tackles and tight ends were the most productive of the line (thanks, Stiney, I guess).
*Combo of O'Cain/Stiney in the booth? Awkward. No coincidence the run game went south with Stiney in the booth.
If the OC position is vacant, and it is not officially, what would be the offense philosophy that fits Beamer's ball control mandate? We know it won't be a hurry-up, no huddle spread because that will wear out Bud's defense, but I wouldn't be surprised if they use the HUNH in the 2 minutes offense. And most importantly, will the "new" offense philosophy fits the current roster? That's something I think Beamer is vetting, and trying to see what each potential candidates are trying to bring to Blacksburg.
If y'all want to, the article is still at Gobbler Country for y'all to read.
Now, I have my conspiracy hat on. What if Beamer is trying to manipulate the fan base into forcing us to accept that Stinespring is the ONLY answer? The Pep Hamilton hire, while it would be an awesome, earth shattering hire, was too good to be true, and fans are understandably very upset that it didn't pan out. Then the name of Chuck Long came up, and I couldn't help but make a whole bunch of Chuck Long jokes at Andy Bitter's blog because at this point, I am exhausted from the excitement and frustration at the dragged out process.
Am I saying that Beamer is purposely trying to force us fans into accepting that Stinespring is the perfect solution? Absolutely not. I am just voicing what I have been thinking and it's a gnawing suspicion in the back of my mind.
I honestly think Scott L. is probably the one. Something about him just seem like a fit. I haven't done any research on him, but I am ignoring his poor record at Auburn due to Gene Chizik for being an idiot in thinking he can switch from a spread to pro style with the players who were recruited to run Malzhan's version of the spread.
no.
No, Coach Beamer trying to bullshit his way into keeping Stinespring as OC.
That would be fucking retarded for a nearly infinite number of reasons, but let's go over a couple easy points anyway.
1) Beamer doesn't give a fuck what the fans think about the coaching staff. If he did, he would've fired Stinespring in 2007/2008.
2) It puts a huge black eye on the program to have the appearance of having to settle for a guy you have all but announced is fired.
If Beamer wanted to keep Stinespring he'd have done it without blowing all this smoke out of Merryman.
Thanks
I know that Beamer wouldn't try to jerk the fan base that way, I just had to put it out there cuz it was bugging at me in the back of my mind, and you just killed it. Thanks.
Same coach who wouldn't take accountability for the fake punt in the Sugar Bowl ("Danny Coale kick/pass option hemm hawww") and didn't say a word about putting Journell in an impossible position this year. Personal accountability has not been a Beamer strong suit the last couple of years.
Job Openings
Just a thought with all of this talk....Isn't Va Tech as a public university suppose to post all Job Openings and allow time for a candidate search even if they have the candidate?
I'll add something to the rant. If there's any truth to the rumor that Stinespring is going to be kept on the staff, that's a total travesty. You can't move on with that guy still on the staff. It's a recipe for dysfunction. Just make a decision and go with it.
Losing our ...
...best two recruiters in the 757 would also be a recipe for disaster.
Whether or not Stiney remaining on staff is a cause for sis function is a personality call Beamer needs to make it. At a distance, Stiney seems like the type of guy who can handle it. He's all VT, with his wife's situation and all. Gotta trust on this one since neither are optimal situations.
Agree
But how do you sabotage something worse than what he fucked up?
I would love to see us in a pro style offense. Edmunds and Harris would be a perfect one-two punch for this system, and if we can get an OL coach that teaches the OL to be mean and how to block, we can score and control the clock.