http://chat.virginiatech.sportswar.com/message_board/vtfootball/2014/December/9/5822903.php
I give full credit to this to Will Stewart at TechSideline. Apparently last week/over the weekend they were told by people close to the AD that a deal to extend Bud and make him financially very well off is on the table ready to be signed. So if you are hearing anything about Bud going elsewhere (the big rumor right now is to A&M) those reports are 100% false.
Good news for anyone hoping to keep him around long-term. Looks like Whit might be looking to lock him up for the looooong haul.
Forums:
DISCLAIMER: Forum topics may not have been written or edited by The Key Play staff.
Comments
Also, in a sidebar, has anyone else been following what has been happening with TSL/TheSabre recently? Apparently they were flagged by Google over the last couple weeks as hosting inappropriate content (essentially, all the half naked women pictures on The Lounge at TSL and The Corner at TheSabre). Google issued a mandate that they either purge their site of all this information, or Google would yank all their advertising off both websites. According to Will, Google advertising makes up anywhere between 30%-50% of their annual revenue, so this would essentially bankrupt the whole SportsWar network (which includes TSL, TheSabre, a Redskins website, and Boneyard Banter for ECU, among others). Immediately, they purged the history of both The Corner and The Lounge, issued a new Terms of Service, and actively banned anyone who broke the rules. I know Joe recently said he is looking for ways to bring in money to start financially supporting those who provide all this good content for us... Just something to consider going forward...
Money or Half-nekkid wimmens.
It is the eternal question.
Well, since they are only half-nekked......show me the money
MOB
"Both" is the only correct answer.
This makes me think, Joe will probably have an answer for this. I use AD Block. Would TKP make some more money if I turned it off while I am on this site? If that is the case, I will pause it for my TKP usage.
According to my wife who deals with internet marketing via Google and Youtube, yes, AD Block preventing ads from appearing on any website in effect reduces the hit count for those ads.
I run it myself, and allow ads to appear for certain sites I frequent (TKP, my favorite Philly Eagles blog, etc)
Yes. Most of us who use as an Ad blocking plug in disable it for TKP.
Never would of thought of that. I have ad block plus for mozilla firefox. How does someone allow ad block for certain websites?
1 - Navigate to the website that you want to disable AdBlock on.
2 - Click on the AdBlock icon within the browser (usually at the top).
3 - Click the option that says "Disable on [domain name]."
Most ads only generate money based on clicks so showing the add does nothing to generate revenue unless you click the ad itself. That is how Google Ads work at least.
? is where Dork Magic occurs....
Thrilled to read this. Well done!
The whole defensive staff needs to be taken care of this cycle, but this is a good start.
Still, reading any SportsWar board is a pain. Can they not get with the 21st century?
Yeah Torrian Gray REALLY needs to get his as well
They actually tried to move it over to a vBulletin board and the natives blew a gasket. It was serious freaking anarchy over there and they lost a ton of traffic because the old hats refused to give the new format a chance. It was a disaster and still a sore subject over there.
I personally like the old format; more compact to scroll and see multiple threads instead of large blocks like these.
I can adapt to the format. TBH it always reminded me of Twitter, the emphasis of getting everything to fit in the title. But it drove me CRAZY that threads weren't bumped to the top when replied to. The redundant posts crippled the site and divided one conversation eight ways.
the vBulletin format was SO much better than what they have now. When they went that new route, the natives threw an absolute fit, but they begged everyone to convert. Many people abandoned, and they publicly stated they were hurting, so a bunch of us (myself included) bought a subscription to help offset the costs, because we liked the direction they were going.
Then, last year, after spending so much time and energy trying to get people to adapt, they completely abandoned the vBulletin concept and reverted back to their 1995 coding in a desperate attempt to bring back those they lost. They essentially put the message out there that those who they lost were more valuable to them than those who remained loyal. I dropped my subscription, stopped posting, and haven't looked back. Every once in a while I'll browse over there with AdBlock on, but they completely lost me as a customer with their antics over the past couple years.
+1 for vBulletin.
I used to frequent ExtremeSkins.com (Redskins message board, with a questionable name) and loved the format.
Its the Skins official board and I'm sure it is at least partially subsidized by the team but I very much enjoy that type of message board format.
When I was just a kid I created my ESPN account and some other accounts under the name "SkinFreak2." It wasn't until farther down the road that I realized that people probably thought I was some type of psychopath.
Having this as your avatar probably didn't help either.
The other factor here is Bud Foster's $800K annuity gets paid out this year, as long as he is still coaching through the end of the 2014 season. Does that include the bowl game? If so, then there is no way he is going to sign a contract with another team just weeks from getting $800K.
Most teams looking for a new DC will have one locked up by then.
It's not based on bowl participation, it is based on the date. If he is still employed at VT on the specific date in January (I think it is the 1st, but not certain), then he gets the bonus. So, he's got to stick around after the bowl game, until January.
I couldn't find the exact contractual language, but I hope you are right. If so, JW definitely made sure that Bud would be here through the bowl season.
That info is correct, noquestion about it. I saw the online copy of the contract, and clearly remember Weaver discussing it on TTL. It's been a few years since it was signed, but there was zero confusion about it.
In general, coaches don't sign to 'end of the season', they always sign to a date.
Whatever he gets he has earned. Keeping him and Gray in the fold is paramount.
Don't forget Brother Wiles. I Believe Big Dadi and Ekannibal have the most sacks as a combo since 2003 or 2004.
I love Wiles also.
agreement to be "the head coach-in waiting" also in there possibly? A La Jimbo Fisher/FSU?
If there is, lets hope its as under the table and hidden as possible, since its illegal to do that for public positions in the commonwealth.
Huh? Really?!
That's what the phrase "Equal Opportunity Employer" means at the bottom of job postings. They gotta post the opening publicly so everyone has an opportunity to apply; no just appointing people.
Of course, it may just so happen that after a "thorough search" they find that the person "most qualified for the position" is conveniently the person they wanted the whole time. Shady, yes, but hard to prove.
YUUUUUP....that's the process. happens all the time.
According to multiple articles VT/Weaver could have placed Bud Foster under a contract to be the next head coach. Once I'm off my phone I will post some links.
http://64.27.92.56/files/4438_Paxton_quote-RT-12-4-08.pdf
No, not really. Thus is the same condition in every state. The way around it is to advertise for the HC job now, take resumes and hire Foster. Just set his start date at the takeover date.
There are also recruiting restrictions for a "head coach in waiting," I believe.
This is actually the bigger issue. Like we saw with Buzz, Whit can go out and hire whoever he wants whenever he wants. It just takes a hell-ton of paperwork to make it legal. However, a HCIW has the same limitations on visits and such as the head coach, meaning you essentially lose a coordinator for recruiting purposes for the duration of the HCIW period. I don't think I've ever seen it executed well anywhere in the country, and this alone is reason enough not to try to break any new ground here.
That's the reason why I'm tempted to apply for VMI's recent HC opening. I can only think of the possibilities, if I coached up a VMI team that beat LOLUVa!
http://www.vmikeydets.com/ViewArticle.dbml?DB_OEM_ID=9800&ATCLID=209780310
I'm not completely sure that the coaching staff falls under the state employee category.
When the Times Dispatch posts the list of state salaries every year, the VT coaching staff never shows up, because they don't get paid by the state. All of their salary is generated by the Athletic dept or some other in-house source.
Meanwhile, Timecop shows up on the list, but only for a small fraction. ($330,750 out of over $2 million)
Assistants, maybe not, but the head coach and his 2 coordinators certainly do. They are publicly reported and you can easily find their salaries through a Google search.
In the Collegiate Times database, all coaches are listed as "Professional Lecturers" and their base salaries (not including other sources like Hokie Club or Nike, e.g. where most of Frank's money comes from) are listed (though the database is a bit outdated, last available year is 2011).
http://deadspin.com/infographic-is-your-states-highest-paid-employee-a-co-489635228
so can you interview for the position prior to it being open and then make a decision based on said interview and then apoint him as head coach in waiting? since hes already with the program i dont know if it works like the real world but ive seen people be interviewed and hired for a position with the company to replace people who are retiring but they stay in the current role until said retirement date. just curious....
You have to have the interview process, and the job listing must be posted for anyone to apply. You can't hire successors before the job is actually open.
If we have an agreement like that in place, we better as hell be keeping it as quiet as we possibly can.
When Texas and FSU did this several lawyers in VA stated Virginia colleges could do the same thing and not run afoul of the law.
I love Bud as much as the next guy. He's the best defensive coordinator in the game and has proven himself to be worth his weight in gold.
With that being said, I HATE the idea of him being Head Coach in Waiting. I think all Hokies need to just relax and temper expectations of what will happen after Frank Beamer retires. If you look at what Will Muschamp, a remarkable defensive coordinator just like Foster, did at Florida it becomes easier to see that Foster as HCIW may not be the best thing. Good coordinator =/= good head coach. They are two completely different positions. We've never seen Foster in a head coaching role and I think it's very important that we all remember that.
I wonder how different it was since Muschamp came to Florida from Texas -- an entirely different system and culture -- whereas Foster would be Hokie through-and-through.
They are also two different people.
Maybe all DCs aren't the same? Maybe there have been successful DC-to-HC transitions? Maybe these generalities don't reflect Buds chance at success very well?
They might not and if he got the keys I would certainly hope not. I'm not saying its a 100% guarantee he would Muschamp it. I just think it's important to know he might not be cut out for it. Or in any case, Whit may not think he is the best thing for the program. I'm just trying to be a realist here. The past few seasons have done that to me.
Oh, Bud may not be the right person. But it's not because of Muschamp or Carl Torbush. DC's sometimes don't make good HC's. Same thing for OC's.
Nick Saban was a defensive coordinator
Sorry this isn't directed at you but more the argument of "coaches need HC experience before we hire them" This is kind of ridiculous to me, people usually point to Muschamp as evidence but fail to look at the coaches that have been successful becoming an HC without prior HC experience.
Chip Kelly
Jimbo Fisher
Mark Richt
Charlie Strong
Bo Pelini
I'm sure there are plenty more. I just don't believe it is a valid argument to say we need someone with HC experience. We need someone who is a great recruiter and has a plan for success on both sides of the ball and has the resources and assistant coaches to accomplish said plan. I don't care if they come from a freaking high school, as long as they can extract the maximum amount of talent and ability out of players then I say we hire them.
Honestly I'm sure there are just as many who succeed without as those who don't. I agree that we need a great recruiter who can game plan. I just think it's important to keep a level head and understand it may not work out.
Agreed, I obviously don't know if Bud would be a good or bad HC. But I do not think hiring him or another coordinator without HC experience is any more risky than hiring a current HC or former HC.
Speaking of Bo pelini what are people thoughts on him as HC at tech if Beamer hangs it up after 2016? Not saying bud should or shouldn't get the job here just thoughts on pelini. He'd have 2 years at Youngstown st which is obviously not where he is going to end up long term.
Bo Pelini is an extremely talented defensive minded coach who has emotional/maturity issues. he would not be a coach that I'd want my school to hire. he wins games & alienates people. There are a several coaches who can win as many games while not alienating people.
Where does the alienating people come from? I have no idea so I'm truly asking.
I think he said something to the tune that the Nebraska fan base effing sucks and they are fair weathered.
I believe "fuck all of them" was uttered.
Google almost any Bo Pelini interview or YouTube them, and you can take your pick from many extremely well publicized instances. It's been reported on virtually all the sports media outlets over several years while he's been there. It's really difficult to read anything about Bo Pelini without reading examples of his completely inexcusable behavior.
If not Bud, then who? Do you REALLY see a trail of applicants at the rental car desks of the Roanoke airport?
WE love the Hokies, but a lot of people might not want to go to the - relative - middle of nowhere.
I have no problem with Bud Foster being the next head coach, but this is not correct at all. The Virginia Tech job is a VERY good job (solidly in the 2nd tier of head coaching jobs just behind the blue blood programs) and there will be no shortage of strong candidates willing to accept it. The pluses far outweigh the minuses - particularly if an ACC Network comes to fruition.
^Yap.
Of course, this all changes if we are a 2 win team by the time we go to hire. Then people won't want to come to VT.
But we DID get Buzz... so really anything can happen.
The win total of the team before the next coach gets there is often pretty inconsequential. There are far more important factors to consider, like the AD, facilities, fan support, recruiting profile, etc. All that stuff considered, I'd say it's a darn good job. There are better ones out there, and you never really want to be the guy who follows the guy, but there will be plenty of high-quality coaches beating down Whit's door when the time comes.
One, this program is no danger of being a 2 win team.
Two, even if it did have a two win season, it would have little impact on the folks willing to take over a power 5 program with solid facilities, fan base, resources, recruiting base, institutional support, etc.
I can't to most of the factors mentioned in the follow-on posts, but I'm not convinced about some of them. And I'm not posing these questions to 'make a point' - I actually am curious, being generally removed from a chance at being 'in the know.' I live in Williamsburg, but have also spent a fair amount of time outside the US, never mind Virginia.
Fan base: yes, we have a lot of graduates, but do we really have that large a fan base? SW Virginia isn't that highly populated, and we've already discussed elsewhere recently how Roanoke is about the 70th largest media market. We don't have a place to call "ours" - sure, there are a lot of grads in the DC/Baltimore area, but we share that with LOLUVA, and UMd for starters, and then add Mason, Navy, Georgetown. Not to mention the "DMV" is really a pro-sports region.
And is our recruiting base that solid right now? There's been a lot of talk about that. I realize that Sweat was a 5-star, which means there was plenty of competition. But we've generally limited ourselves to Virginia, and been kind of proud of it - the staff, that is - so, shouldn't we get some of the 4/5s that are in this state? Even beating their asses for 11 years straight, 15 of 16, hasn't stopped LOLUVA from getting some of the higher-rated talent.
And I don't feel like the 'power' of the ACC helps us. We're the 5th of 5 in the phase "Power 5," F$U notwithstanding.
Again, I love the Hokies, and would like to think it IS a desirable job, but I'm not all that convinced. There won't be a shortage of candidates, just because a lot of coaches are out there looking for a first-time HC gig. I just hope they're as strong as your confidence suggests.
Dunno, I think according to the selection committee, we're at least 4th out of 5 (the ACC, that is). After all, they left both Big 12 teams out...
If those are your perceptions, then I can see why you're skeptical. But frankly, your focus is too narrow and nearsighted. The VT athletic program and the ACC are in far better position than you realize.
If Washington State can hire away a winning Wisconsin coach (albeit probably an unhappy winning Wisconsin coach) -- or SMU can hire Chad Morris (or VT can hire Buzz Williams, for that matter) -- I assure you VT will have no problem finding it's next head football coach from a number of good choices (one of which should be Bud Foster, IMO).
Edit: Meant Oregon State rather than Washington State. However, you can add Washington State getting Mike Leach as another example.
If you live anywhere in Virginia, just look around. I'm sure you'll be seeing VT jackets, hoodies, yard signs, flags, license plates, license plate holders, and car magnets all around you.
Plus, the 2011/2012 Sugar Bowl...we got that because of our fanbase.
not just in virginia my friend. florida as well. maybe its just because im always on the look out for fellow hokies but i see them.... everywhere i go. not sure if thats because alot of navy folks here coming from VA or what but i see people wearing VT merch here alot.
That's right. We were visiting my in-laws last Christmas in Florida, and my wife was wearing a VT shirt (and she didn't even go there), and received a "go Hokies!" while walking into a grocery store.
Absolutely necessary. Agree that others in Defensive staff need more compensation as well.
My guess: Somewhere in those discussions is the VT HC future.
This is a good news day...hope it carries to tomorrow as well
Does anyone have an idea of when this would be announced?
Kudos on the extension, because Bud as the D coordinator? LOVE IT! Bud as the HC in waiting? Not so much. Bud has interviewed for multiple HC positions over the years and by all rumors has not been offered any of them. People obviously see him as a good coordinator but not necessarily a good HC. That worries me a bit if he were to take over an already struggling Hokie team but was offered the gig merely on past history and not future potential to lead the WHOLE team...
I'm with you. My hope for the future is that whenever Frank decided to hang 'em up, the next HC is one that is offensively oriented (a Chad Morris type, perhaps) and we can retain Bud as DC.
Just going to throw this out there... I personally believe this news is a bunch of crap, but apparently "sources" close to the Texas A&M program are confirming that Bud Foster has accepted an offer to be their next DC.
Apparently the contract is for around $1M with bonuses per year that could push it upwards of $2M.
IMO if Bud goes, Frank goes. Willingly or unwillingly.
I think that would be the case, certainly at most Frank would have one more year, then be gone whether he wanted to or not. Any honest assessment of Frank's last two decades at VT would show that Bud's defense was the overwhelming factor in the team's success. Without Bud, these last 3 seasons, Frank is down in the 3-4 win per season total, and Frank's ten win season streak is never even a single ten win season.
Yeah I kind of agree.
I have been saying that Beamer and Loeffler are tied together, and what one does, the other has to do as well. I will amend that. As long as Bud Foster remains with the program, Beamer and Loeffler are tied at the hip, where if one is fired, you fire them both, and if one is retained you retain them both. However, if Bud leaves, they all have to go.
If Frank is responsible for a declining Offense, he's just as responsible for an effective defense.
If he's married, he's married.
okay then, question for you. if bud leaves, would you not expect a significant drop off in defensive production?
That would depend on how many of the defensive coaches went with him. I think Coach Gray might be ready to step up.
Then, by definition that would also reflect on Frank.
But, Bud has not left so, it also reflects on Frank. It's a huge reflection on Frank that he's here.
He must get some modicum of credit from both.
Lot's of people here wan to blame Frank for the offense but only credit Bud for the defense. Can't do that.
I think a lot of this belief stems from the fact that when the offense is questioned, Frank responds in kind and gives his opinion on how he wants the offense to be run, sentiments that are echod by the offensive coaches. When the defense is brought up, he defers questions to Bud.
Add to that the fact that it has been well known for many years that Frank allows Bud total freedom in devising his defense. It has always been very public that Frank lets Bud do Bud's thing, hands off. That is quite different from the picture we see on offense.
I hear quite a lot about Frank disrupting the OC but I see not much evidence of it. So I will not accept this as a given in discussion.
I hear of it on blogs but when I see the games, I see just about as much hands off.
I see complaints of Frank being too much unengaged. He's too old and doesn't have enough energy or ideas and can't change to modern football but got a coach to change from our old system to a pro style. Frank doesn't like playing Freshman but, here we are with our skill guys mostly fr. We don't have a history of using TE's yet, here we are with a record braking year of using TE's.
For me, this line of reasoning does not compute.
So, I'll narrow it down for those that want t provide evidence of this.
How has Frank negatively impacted the offense this year through meddling with it or the OC?
You're asking us to prove why gravity exists. There is no hard, concrete answer that will satisfy everyone to show that this is happening, but there's enough circumstantial evidence to know that it does.
Is there hard, concrete provable evidence to show Beamer is meddling with the Offense? No, but the fact that we're still horrid after 3 signal callers, and after a wholesale change of the offensive staff does show more than enough circumstantial evidence to say that he's certainly playing a large part in it.
i'm actually not entirely convinced that frank is negatively meddling in our offenses either. i just think he's made bad hires. which he should be held accountable for. just as he should be given credit for hiring bud.
i'd be willing to wager that if we brought in a guy who had a well-defined, proven offensive system, we would see that system.
It's his well worn response to any perceived criticism of Beamer. When proof is provided, then it is dismissed as irrelevant. Circumstantial evidence is dismissed, anecdotal evidence is dismissed, even factual evidence is dismissed. Same thing every time. I just don't waste the keystrokes. It's an argument not worth the time.
Meanwhile, we have the program humming right along...
Perhaps it may be a well worn response but I do not agree that much factual evidence of anything has been provided, particularly to the meddling question.
I see pointing to correlation type responses but, it follows from a logical argument standpoint that correlation does not mean causation.
If you tell me that Frank has more experience on def from a player perspective or that he appears to be less adept at hiring an OC than a DC, that special teams are not so special anymore, I can certainly agree.
My point is that firing Frank will not, at this point improve these things.
I understand that acquiring a better coach will improve things after a period of time but I do not think VT can do this at this time and what, in particular would we be looking for other than the general - Better Offense.
Why do you think "we have the program humming right along..."?
I disagree with this right here. We definitely need improvement. I'm surprised to see you say this. 6/12 for VT is not acceptable.
Pretty sure his "meanwhile we have the program humming right along" statement was sarcastic...
Well, gravity is a result of space-time warping due to bodies of large mass (planets, stars, etc). Poor analogy.
No, that's "how," not "why." Larger point though, we still don't even really know how gravity works on the most fundamental level...
You can't prove it, though, which is why there's only a theory on why gravity exists, instead of it being a law. It is generally accepted that it does, and there is enough evidence to back up why it does to get a good understanding of it (as you described) but there is not any cold hard evidence to support the theory as a law.
We know how gravity exists, and we understand how it impacts masses around it, but, for the time being, why it exists still falls in the theory of gravity, instead of the law of gravity.
That's the current theory of why gravity happens, but it's not really provable. I actually think it's a pretty apt analogy.
In this case, the offensive performance is gravity, it's the observable phenomenon. Beamer's Meddling is the theory that explains why it's happening, like general relativity it's an explanation, but it's not really provable either way.
What you've defined is a hypothesis, which can indeed be either accepted or rejected. A theory is something that is repeatedly confirmed through observation and experimentation, which none of this is. Everything about Beamer's meddling is a hypothesis, nothing more. Do not fall for the vernacular use of "theory," which is usually equated with "some plausible idea."
/geekout
The mashup of physics and football inevitably took took me here:
I agree with you, I don't think it's an issue of Frank handcuffing the OC. TBH, I never have. I do think Frank will say things like, "We have to run the ball more." This isn't meddling, it's coaching. It's up to the OC to determine how to run the ball.
I DO think Frank overvalues ball control and pushes that philosophy, but not in-game. I think it's clear he wants a ball control offense to rest the D, but I don't think he's designing plays or scripting series to accomplish it. Again an issue of program philosophy that coordinators and coaches are expected to incorporate into the scheme and strategy, and not an issue of meddling.
I think the issues on O have come from having incompetent people retained far longer than is justifiable. Stiney is a great TE coach and recruiter, and a horrible OC. O'Cain was mediocre at best as a QB coach. Newsome was simply awful at coaching the type of OL we need to have the type of offense Frank wants.
If we hired the Bud Foster of offense we'd see a great offense. Simple as that. Bad hires and unjustifiable retention produced what we're seeing, not any sort of in-game veto from Frank.
^ I can agree whole heartedly with Illinois Hokie here.
I can't agree yet, that Loeffler is horrible but, he's got a very short time to prove otherwise.
In the meantime, I'm not in the Fire Frank Now crowd that thinks it's the solution to all ills. Too many changes in the works that I think will help.
sans bud's defense and without significant offensive improvement, things could get ugly on the field. scary.
Did you hear this from a certain "well informed" person on twitter? Perhaps his username was something like "Hokies" and then a bunch of numbers?
http://texags.com/forums/5/topics/2574142
Bear in mind, Bud has no experience or contacts for recruiting in Texas.
As I said, personally, I don't believe the rumor, but apparently it has enough legs that its worthy of mention. The guy on twitter that I am copying did apparently break the Sumlin as head coach news...
With that said, all the articles I can find redirect back to a thread on TechSideline started by a guy with one post. And Will Stewart replied in that one thread with the comment I linked in the OP about the pending extension for Bud to remain our coach.
This @miketag98 clown only has 458 followers. Obviously folks down there don't consider him to be a go to source for these types of things.
There has been message board chatter which we all know can be all over the map from day to day. The most credible thing I could find was from an A&M blog. Still, "most credible" in this instance does not really imply credible at all since I am not familiar with the blog and its historical track record with having inside sources. Still, a SCARY thought for sure.
http://justwaittilnextseason.blogspot.com/2014/12/virginia-techs-bud-fos...
I hate you for even posting this. The thought of this makes me ill. I hope this is just Texas A&M boosters playing misinformation games.
I believe that this belongs here:
http://sports.usatoday.com/ncaa/salaries/football/assistant
That of course includes his annuity this year but when he buys things its:
Straight Cash Homie
I approve.
That one time $800k annuity payment drastically skews that salary number. Next year he's back down to the 30s in taking worn his $535k salary.
i obviously have no idea how credible these rumors are. but if bud has been in contact with aTm, i really hope he's just trying to leverage himself into a fatter contract at virginia tech.
Ran across this, for anyone interested; "Model" coaching contract (50 page pdf) The Model University Coaching Contract ("MCC"): A Better Starting Point for Your Next Negotiation*
Just FWIW, Kevin Sumlin is in Blacksburg today ---edit: seems these #sources are pretty unreliable, so take it with a grain of salt
I assume the flight tracker told you this or is the Swagcopter sitting at the Blacksburg airport right now?
NORAD apparently uses their Santa tracker for coaches when it isn't Christmas Eve?
lol.
Farewell Bud and Hokie Football for that matter!!!!
Says who?
So here's a question - if Bud signs with A&M (please God no, my heart can't take that right now), does he kiss the annuity goodbye? He's got to stay on as DC until Jan. 1, 2015 to get it. That's still 3 weeks away. If he signs but stays until then, does VT try to weasel out of the annuity because he had effectively already left, or can that argument even be made?
This is all very worrying...
Supposedly, the raise he would get at A&M makes the annuity look small
No it doesn't. He's earned his $800K annuity and he has to stay for two more weeks to get it. That's a lot of cash.
Yes, he could make $1M at aTm, but that doesn't make $800K look small if it is available in two weeks.
(As an aside, if he wanted to leave today for aTm, we would likely pay the annuity anyway. No reason to keep him on the staff for two weeks if he doesn't want to be here.)
I'm saying it would be a salary that would pay him upwards of $2M per year after incentives, and they would cover the costs of the $800k annuity payment to sweeten the deal
That is, if you believe the rumor
They could tack on a $800,001 signing bonus
Well, a couple of things to consider...
When we're discussing college football programs in Texas or the SEC, you have to remember that they can get crazy about throwing money out to get what they want. The timing of this seems bad for Bud, in that he's got to be employed at Tech on Jan 1st to get his $800K. So, Bud is sitting there with an annual income of $535K, plus a possible 80K more in bonuses IF the team does well enough to go to an elite bowl game. Which... Anyway, Bud has the second card of the $800K if he stays until January. Third item, Bud has an offer from Whit waiting to be signed, which includes a large pay increase (presumably). Against that factor in Texas A&M. They could easily offer Bud $1.3M annually, which matches his 'ultra high' payout from VT after five years of remaining in place. A&M could match that the first year, then every year afterwards he'd still have the high salary. Or... A&M could even offer him a $800K 'signing bonus' to offset his lost money from VT. That wouldn't be hard to do at all for them.
Secondly, Bud might have gotten the strong impression, or the open appraisal from Whit that Bud will not be a favorite to replace Frank Beamer. So Bud could be looking at losing his cache and income opportunity within two years.
Remember, it appears that A&M's first choice - Will Muschamp, is leaning strongly to going to Auburn. The Aggies do NOT want to be seen publicly as having missed out twice. They've got a 100K stadium to fill, and the SEC to conquer. Not to mention more chances to rub their success in UTexas' face.
Both of those scenarios would make it very difficult for Bud to stay in place. It seems as though the landscape has shifted dramatically in a short amount of time.
That's going to be interesting....IF this rumor is true.
Sumlin is not in Blacksburg right now at least.
It looks as though A&M would throw in that extra $800K to make up for the annuity he will have lost by leaving early.
That's an idea that's too simple to have not been obvious previously, but none of us considered that. A&M could just give him a signing bonus of $800K to start before Jan 1st. Bud doesn't lose a thing, plus he would then be on a program that was nationally relevant, with a head coach that was moving up the ladder instead of a head coach that was moving into retirement really really soon.
Absolutely. Makes a lot of sense. It feels like this is suddenly a very real possibility.
Yeah, I always thought Bud was a lock to stay as long as Frank, regardless. I did think Bud would leave if anyone else was named head coach, despite the majority on here believing the opposite. Folks just refuse to accept that we're no more destined to have Bud coach our defense forever than we are to have Frank coach the team forever.
I just never even considered the very real probability that A&M could easily offer Bud an equal (or larger) signing bonus to leave Tech, as we could offer him to stay. Pretty naive on my part, actually. This morning, it dawned on me - if they're willing to pay him $1M-plus to be the DC, and he isn't at all sure that he will replace Frank very soon, why stay? Weighing the pros & cons, the A&M side has a lot on the list, while right now we do not. Emotional attachment doesn't pay the bills.
Nationally relevant? Huh? Just because they are in the SEC and from Texas, that makes them nationally relevant? They had 2 good years. 2012, Johnny Football led them to a top 5 finish. Last year, only 18th. Before that, they finished at 21st in 2010 and were unranked from 1999 to 2009. Yes, that's national relevance. In 12 years, they've had 4 seasons with more 9 or more wins. In that same time, they've had 5 .500 or below seasons. They aren't nationally relevant, they are just a name brand. Remember, this is 7-5 A&M, not the 11-2 of 2012 or even the 9-4 A&M from last year. They were but a flash in the pan.
Heisman winner and one of the most hyped teams preseason this year? Yeah, at least on the short term, they were nationally relevant this year.
Certainly a hell of a lot moreso than we were.
Hey now, were were constantly in the playoff selection discussion
You mean in the "losing to Virginia Tech is reason enough to keep Ohio State out of the playoffs"?
Yeah......
Most hyped and then *fart noise*. Sorry, they fell off the map as fast as they ran onto it. Their major wins included a victory over then #9 USCe (now 6-6), an OT victory over Arkansas (also 6-6), and a win over then #3 Auburn (now 8-4). I'm not arguing their relevance versus ours, but they were not relevant other than knocking Auburn down a peg. If they were relevant, so were we after beating OSU.
I agree A&M is nationally relevant, but I don't think they are a program that can simply plug in Bud and compete for national titles. They won one more game than VT did this year, losing every SEC game that really mattered except Auburn.
Thinking about it rationally, I don't see Bud making a lateral move unless (1) he has a real chance of competing for championships right away, and/or (2) the pay is so high he can't say no. I don't see (1) happening at A&M, and I think VT is willing to put up enough money, which, combined with stability, is enough to take (2) off the table.
Step back from Hokie fandom for a minute, though. (not a dig, just saying, for perspective). Texas A&M is WAY closer to being in the national title discussion than we are, and they project to be so next year and the next year and... Our program is in disarray. We've got a head coach with health issues & retirement staring him in the face, we've got no kind of offensive identity, we lack a quality QB that can lead us to conference titles, we have lost elite recruits from our backyard, our stronghold of recruiting. Plus, we are trending down. Funding is a major concern for us, and we are in the weaker of the Power 5 conferences.
Texas A&M has a lot to offer Bud, far more than we do.
I heard Kevin Sumlin has an in-grown toenail, so that point might be a wash.
No this is a Wash
More money, better recruiting base, SEC etc.
I'd go.
So he is going to leave VT which will probably have a head coach opening in a couple of years for a program with a younger head coach who is probably not going to leave?
Why stay and be underpaid at one company watching your coworkers fail time and time again getting paid nearly as well as you, when you could take a job at another company, getting paid nearly 3x as much to do the exact same thing? Especially when, in your mind, (speaking hypothetically here, of course) the only reason you've stuck it out with the first job is because you were expecting to be next in line when the CEO retires, only to learn from the new board that they will hire from the outside to fill that role.
No one knows who the next Head FB coach will be. Not to mention the comfort of where you are, and the fact that no one ever questions Bud in the 'burg, due to our loyalty to him and his units performance.
But I get it with you... its always $$$. Even Bud himself said it is not all about the money. He's a GOD in Blacksburg and choice #2 @ A&M.
In my opinion, I wouldn't want to be the head coach immediately following CFB. Imagine the pressure that the person is going to receive (see Penn State) and from all directions. I would want to have a 'buffer' coach (a la Bill O Brien) before becoming the coach of the Hokies (a la James Franklin)
It is tough to be the Man after the Man.
However, in Bud's case it would be different. He already has established everything he needs in Blacksburg.
An outsider would most definitely have a tough time following Frank.
Maybe...
If he is pretty sure he won't get that head coaching job? And that he'll have to work for the guy who got the job Bud has wanted for nearly three decades?
Yes, I'd say he would have incentive to leave.
In that case, yes I believe he will leave VT.
I don't see Whit letting that happen because then he will have to clean house.
Evidently, Whit has already informed Bud that he will not follow Frank as head coach, that Whit will hire from outside the program. So it all goes back to Bud suddenly having to re-evaluate his career path. Suddenly, staying at Claytor Lake doesn't seem like the future reality. At least not for the next ten years, which is about what Bud has left.
Why would Whit say that?
Whit is too business savvy to tell Bud Foster that he definitely will not be the coach. In the end, why wouldn't Foster be a good choice for HC? He certainly is qualified, knows the area, knows the current players, knows how to field a dominant defense in the ACC.
Telling Bud Foster he has no shot would be cutting off a really good candidate - period. What if outside interest is not that great? We don't know how attractive the VT job is - it has not been open for 3 decades. Bud may be head and shoulders above potential hires (and no, there is no comparison with the Buzz hire, 2 different animals completely). Whit is not going to tell Bud that until he is ready to make a decision and Frank has stepped down or has been asked to resign.
When you use the word "evidently" that means there should be some sourcing information. So, who in the blue hell has reported that Whit has met with Bud and told him he is a lame duck?
I am no HR expert, but telling someone that they will not be considered for a job before that job is even available would seem to be a pretty serious violation of US labor law.
Yea it is definitely a no no
Maybe swvadon is the "twitter guy" and he is adding fuel to the fire with this "evidently" statement.
swvadon, you act like you know something, or is it just your educated guess/speculation?
I just read that one of the moderators of another popular Hokie message board posted that on December 5th. I wouldn't think that Whit would come out & say - 'Bud, you're not getting the job...' Perhaps he said - 'Bud, I can't promise you the job, not at all...' or he even said - 'Bud, I can't promise that you'd be on my list...'
I don't know. That is why I posted 'evidently'. I would think Whit would keep his cards close to the vest. However, I will remind a lot of people on here that it is clear Whit & Bud have had conversations recently about Bud's future. Some have presumed Whit was offering Bud a 'secret' HCIW promise, which is no different than telling Bud he won't get the job.
I'm just passing on what I read elsewhere. I'm as concerned about this Bud to Texas A&M scenario as anyone...
Nobody said Whit told him he was a lame duck. What I read was that it had been stated Whit told him he wouldn't get to replace Frank. That does not mean the same thing.
To me, those are practically one in the same, unless Bud truly wants to stay a DC forever and he trusts Whit to bring in a great replacement at HC.
Thanks for the info, I see what you are saying. They've definitely had the conversation, and Whit probably gave nothing more than a very political answer..."Bud, you would be a very strong candidate for HC when the time comes, but there will be a process and other candidates will be vetted." So Bud in all likelihood doesn't know anymore than we do what Whit will do and when that will happen. I think it comes down to what Bud feels in his gut.
My best guess is that he has enough faith/loyalty to stick it out and see where the chips fall when Beamer retires. For him, the best case scenario is that he gets what he wants at VT and finishes out his career. Worst case scenario for him is that once Beamer retires he realizes things aren't looking so great at VT anymore. Then the world of college football would fight over him and he would have quite a choosing for DC and possibly HC positions. Leaving now, if Beamer is staying actually doesn't make much sense. Not for aTm, anyway. Just as many unknowns in that program as ours.
I agree with most of what you posted. Unlike many on here, I never have thought Bud would stay on as DC if he didn't get Frank's job. I'm not certain the new coach would want him to stay. not because of his ability, but because of the probable strain in the locker room. What if the new coach wanted to 'advise' Bud on his defense? Yikes!
Also, a skilled executive can tell an employee something while making sure that person completely understands the unspoken message they give. That's where the semantics come into play.
Lastly, the world of college football would offer Bud more now than when he was out at VT & looking for something else. Nobody is rushing to get him as a HC, only as a DC. That's just the way it is...
Where is this apparently coming from?
#sources
I know a guy....well...I don't know the guy...but I know a guy that knows the guy...
The same place as Manti Te'o's girlfriend. Yeah, I know, the joke is nearly 2 years old...I'm sorry.
Some would say that it never existed at all
That would be fine with me.
As long as he provides a source.
Your move, Mr. Babcock.
No, it is Bud's move. Texas A&M has made him an offer, and Whit has made him an offer. The decision is up to Bud.
Who says I'm talking about Bud?
If you're talking about Frank, I've got an idea that move has already been made, or was planned to be made this week or next, in terms of 'We've got to talk...'
I'd just been firm that Whit would give Frank the 2016 season as his last. Now, though, I don't know if Frank gets more than one more game. As I mentioned elsewhere, the landscape is shifting quickly all around us.
It's going to be alright. There is a better chance that UVA wins the national championship next year then Bud leaving for TAMU.
Does anyone have anything other than a rumor picked up by a blog that doesn't even have a domain?
So here's how the rumor basically started. Someone created an account on TSL and posted on the free board that Bud could leave for A&M. The guy who runs Texas A&M's 247 site saw this post and for some reason believed that this random person was a credible source posted on the front page of 247 that Bud is seriously considering leaving for A&M. Since then, a bunch of other silly rumors have circulated on the internet and twitter.
Yep, that pretty much covers it
So...par for the course in Internetting?
I'm personally not panicked. Even if Bud leaves, I won't panic.
Nope. I'm not either. You reap what you sow.
If Vt is what so many have proclaimed it to be over the years, it will survive the departure of Frank Beamer. And the departure of Bud Foster. I think the program can & will move forward, even after those two Hokie legends depart the program. To think otherwise implies it is all a house of cards, and I don't believe that it is that.
Yea but what if that guy was Kevin Sumlin?
What if it was...
That's what I like about TKP. At least our guest coaches are willing to use their real names
I've been observing it on twitter but didn't know the exact root cause. I just feel everyone is a bit jumpy at the moment and giving a no-name blog so much credence is a bit ridiculous. If GBH, or one of their more reputable boards, were to come out with something more substantial that did not cite that blog as its source, I'd be worried.
I'll believe it when Joe posts it on the front page
that's exactly how I go about if information is reliable or not.... the almighty joe
To be fair, Joe was dead wrong about cake being superior to pie.
This is true....
or was he???? #teampie
I upvoted you but I want you to think of it as a downvote, with love of course.
#teamcake
Now that you mention it, you were all wrong about cake, pie, or cookies being superior to ice cream
I am actually #teamicecream,as well, but I caucus with #teamcake in dire matters of dessert supremacy.
The enemy of the enemy is my friend.
And you are wrong about Cheese French. So wrong.
#SOURCES
Assuming folks have seen this since it was posted yesterday but I haven't seen it linked anywhere else:
http://justwaittilnextseason.blogspot.com/2014/12/virginia-techs-bud-foster-to-be-texas.html?m=1
No clue as to the validity.
I listened to these guys' podcast, which they recorded yesterday and posted today on the same blog, and they say outright that their source is twitter.
who's this Twitter guy? is he credible? can we trust him?
He just goes around tweeting all day!
People that actually have sources and break news don't say "I've heard from two sources I trust..."
If you have to say that you trust them then you are just reassuring yourself. This is hilarious.
You guys had to know this was coming
Gotta love it when you can sneak in a good porn gif
FWIW I have sources who work within the Athletic Department, the team is currently still practicing this week and Bud has been in Bburg all week. Still doesn't mean he hasn't had any visitors or that he hadn't already been to some interviews, but I can confirm he is still out on the practice field.
More importantly, where is his agent? And where has his agent been lately?
I don't buy into the aTm rumors at all. I couldn't imagine Bud jumping ship for another DC position at this point in his career. I'd say his best bet at a power conference HC gig is in Blacksburg and could be open soon.
http://flightaware.com/live/flight/EJA330/history/20141211/1930Z/KCLL/KROA
FWIW this was posted on an aTm message board...they think its Sumlin on the flight.
Is that the Swagcopter?
looks to be a fixed wing aircraft.
could it be...
gasp
the SwagJet?
Isn't this similar to Jimbo Fisher flying into lock down Josh Sweat?
We might be in more trouble than we thought with A&M's unbridled wealth. Evidently Sumlin's plane is too big to land at the VT airfield.
I just love the ingenuity/insanity of college sports fans to track air flights. It's especially heartwarming to know we're all that far gone over the edge...
Just to clarify, I started the "Jimbo Fisher is flying into Norfolk to meet with Josh Sweat" because I was invited along to go pick him up.
No flight trackers, no internet insanity.
Sumlin to VT? :)
So tell me why it would then be continuing on to Dulles an hour and 45 minutes after landing? Could it perhaps be to visit Tim Settle or Ricky DeBerry who they are recruiting? Seriously, just stop with all this stupidity. It's getting ridiculous.
Maybe Sumlin's is a history buff and wants walk the Mall?
Woah. Simmer down there, hotfoot. This is an internet forum that just went balls out ridiculous over the verbal commitment of a DE prospect, and you don't think that a rumor of potentially losing our DC is at least worth a conversation? It' s not stupid, it's exactly the sort of thing the forums are made for. Nobody's claiming it as hard news, were speculating on a possible rumor. Calm down. If you don't want to take part in this conversation, move along, respect the TOS and don't call it stupidity just because you don't like it.
When we've reached flight tracker level, it's become ridiculous/stupid. Pure chaos for the point of chaos. Make conversation about his value, but to think that a flight tracker means anything substantial is grasping for straws, especially when it's so blatantly obvious that the plane isn't stopping in the NRV. The evidence says more that it's nothing than that it's something, but if you want to believe it's substantial, be my guest.
I don't think for one second it's substantial. I think it's unfounded rumor, speculation, innuendo and general foolishness. Exactly what internet forums are made to geek out about. Please don't insult those of us who enjoy participating in such posts and just go find another thread you prefer.
A little bit of credit needs to go to those who take the time to track flights to find 'The Truth'. That is just as impressive as the other 'geek out' stuff that we see on here. Plus, at it's core, it is funny.
Frickin hillarious, which is why I love it. Yesterday we were analyzing hat placement on the table beside Josh Sweat. Today we're tracking flights that have no association with any college for no apparently reason. Viva LA offseason!
I didn't see any insult anywhere. /shrug
The point is tracking flights is a bit overboard because of the many reasons people fly. If you read flight aware, that plane hasn't been to Roanoke all month, and it was in College Station for less than an hour.
/shrugback
I took exception to him telling people to stop with this stupidity. I get thinking this is dumb. It is. That's part of why I enjoy it. And it's actually on topic to the original thread of is Bud getting a raise and extension from VT. If anyone is taking this to heart, that's probably unfortunate for them, but don't say it shouldn't be talked about. It's stupidity, but it's relevant stupidity.
Plus... it is funny.
PRREEEEAAACCCHHHHH.
We've done this a billion times. OMG FLIGHTAWARE OMG. People forget that any big collegiate football team is usually a part of a bigger research univeristy. People come and go from far and wide all the time.
We also thought Shaka was on his way to be our head coach based on flight aware lol
Nobody with any sense of college basketball thought Shaka was coming to VT.
Nobody with any sense of college basketball thought Buzz Williams was coming to VT.
They did a couple of days before it was announced. Absolutely not before that, though.
Nobody with any sense of when to quit drinking ever thought ordering Gumby's pizza was a good idea.
guh pokie sticks, i miss some pokie sticks
Yeah that's my point. During the search, a flight came to Blacksburg from Richmond and everyone said it was Shaka.
Let's play the game of "name an airport worse to have a layover in than Roanoke" Couldn't have flown to Charlotte instead?
Just speculation, but it's probably not a layover. IAD is well within the flight range of that aircraft. Likely dropping people off and headed on to the NetJets facility at Dulles.
Peoria, Illinois.
LAX.... I hope whoever designed LAX died/will die a horrible, painful, slow death.
Yeah, because Roanoke is the preferred connection for a College Station to Washington DC flight...
Stupid isn't an appropriate word for this conversation.
I like "pathetic" myself...
Now THAT'S a word I can get behind!
Trusted #sources can confirm that Oscar Smith's AD is picking him up from the airport.
You'd think a plane operated by Texas A&M would have spent more time in College Station over the last 2 weeks than a single hour layover this morning.
Looks to be owned and operated by NetJets, not aTm.
Chartered private aviation?
Errrr... We're sure Bud was in Blacksburg today right?
Texas A&M owns at least 1 plane for private use
just sayin
Sorry. My tinfoil hat was on crooked.
We're sure he was in Blacksburg today. We just don't have confirmation that he did not board the jet. Nor do we have confirmation that his agent wasn't on board the jet, returning with Bud's contract from A&M to sign.
maybe they wanted to be super stealth and sneak up on us all.... #Conspiracy
yay, now we have a whole new thread with which to rumor mongor inside of!
If someone creates a gif of Sumlin flying in Santa's sleigh on NORAD radar, you will be my best friend.
Will you take one from #teamcake?
!YES
Was that Bud foster's head in the back? That bastard!
...and now this from some guy at Radford
I'd like to think someone's just playing NCAA on Xbox.
He's a 2009 VT alum, Radford's Assistant Director of Basketball Ops. Instantly the most credible person to talk about the Bud-to-aTm rumor, but that's only because he's not using blogspot to "report" them.
So..Random dude web site with a domain > random dude with a Twitter > random dude with a Blogspot > anonymous message board poster > anonymous recently-added account message board poster.
WELCOME TO THE SHOW!
Pretty much. Soon, we'll need a flow-chart.
I wonder how much any of this has to do with Tennessee having three of their 4 star recruits from last year deciding to leave their program this week.
And one is a DE! gimmegimmegimmegimme
Since we play Tennessee in 2016, I'm guessing that we would be on the no transfer list.
If Bud Foster were to leave, it would say a lot about Whit. Whit needs to keep Foster, because the only thing keeping VT from being a 6-6 team the past decade was the defense. I wonder where Wiles and Gray's loyalties lie? Do they lie with Beamer? Or would they follow Foster? It's a interesting question, but I'm inclined to believe the latter.
I'm sure Whit would open the checkbook for Bud.
I think Bud leaving would say more about VT's offense over the years. It must have taken years off of Bud's life. The guy has to be fed up with putting great defenses out there and the offense is awful year after year.
If Bud leaves, that says far more about Frank Beamer than anyone else. Not Whit Babcock, Frank Beamer. Bud leaving would be the most visible evidence possible that even Bud Foster has finally realized Frank will never produce an effective offense, and that all the time Bud spent with Frank, and waiting for Frank to retire, have gone for nil. Bud will effectively turn away from Virginia Tech and Frank Beamer if Bud decides to leave. I wouldn't blame him, because Bud deserves far better than he's gotten from the Hokie offenses for the better part of two decades now. But be certain - it will be about Bud giving up on Frank ever evolving.
If these rumors are true and Bud does leave and assuming he will take most of the defensive coaches with him , it will be time to clean house .
It is an odd case of the tail wagging the dog, but I tend to agree. In VT's case, the DC is the bulk of the reason for the on-field success of the head coach. Even the most ardent defender of Frank would have to admit that without Bud Foster, we would be several games worse in the W-L column.
I think that if Bud left, it would be probable, not just possible, that Frank would announce his retirement. Just objectively viewing the 2015 season, we would be looking at a 4-8 record if we were extremely lucky. I doubt Frank wants to go out that way. You can also be sure that with Bud gone, the moneyed donors would absolutely be telling Whit & Frank that it was time for Beamer to retire.
Good thing there's nothing riding on Bud Foster. No pressure Bud.
OR maybe Mr Torian Gray or Mr Wiles would enjoy the promotion to DC...
Depending on where you look there is either no chance he leaves, or A&M has already come to an agreement with him. Yay Internet.
Fustrating is it not? What sucks even more is working with a bunch of LOLUVA fans who like to troll the interwebs. They are taking every opportunity to point out every comment they come across that says he's leaving. I will take a sick day to mourn should he leave. However, I'm really, REALLY hoping he stays.
Even if he leaves, that doesn't mean they're going to beat us for the first time in a dozen years.
Since it's been a little while and nobody has posted this...
What had happened was that Bud said he was going to the ATM and #sources thought he said aTm. Bud recently said he was going to the bathroom and my #sources think that means he's interviewing at You!VA.
That should pretty much end the discussion here of him leaving, right?
Bet it won't. Probably gets worse...
Butbutbutbutbut...THE PLANE. IN ROANOKE. HELLO?
Maybe Kevin Sumlin was trying to hire Loeffler to be his Def Coordinator?
This needs to be made into Bud swatting the Swagcopter out of the air
Scot Lefty is the best defensive coordinator for 12+ different teams every season.