The team was plagued by the injury bug on offense and defense as well. An overwhelming amount of true and redshirt freshmen experienced significant playing time this year. In a nationally televised game, the Hokies defeated an Ohio State football program that had not lost a home game against an unranked opponent since 1982. Michael Brewer was a good High School QB but missed VTs spring practices and had not seen significant playing time at the college level which explained some of the communications breakdowns with the wide receivers. Despite the obstacles, the Hokies were able to keep their bowl streak alive and hold on to the commonwealth cup for the eleventh straight year by defeating an improved UVA team. Despite handful big-plays to opposing teams, Bud Foster's unit is ranked 17th in total defense and 2nd in sack. Other football programs would have called this year a successful season. But VT is not an average football program. Sometimes change is necessary when a team is not meeting expectations. After reviewing the tapes my conclusion is: this Virginia Tech football team needs continuity after competing in all the games, except Miami. With the season coming to a close, one of the questions is:
Has Scot Loeffler done enough to keep his position as Offensive Coordinator?
Has Scot Loeffler done enough to keep his position as Offensive Coordinator?
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He and Beamer are tied at the hip.
If you fire one, you fire them both. If you retain one, you retain them both. With the program in the state that it is right now, the worst mistake we could make is repeating what we did in 2012.
Agreed. As much as I dislike the LoefflerCluster-O, no reason to reinvent it now. Just bide our time until Frank is done. (rolls eyes)
as much as i would like beamer to reboot with a new offensive coordinator, i just don't think he has the time. it's been proven that coordinators can come in and have success year 1, but how common is that?
moorehead and grimes were fantastic gets last season (credit frank there) but the OC hiring was straight up bungled.
No.
6-3 OT loss against THAT Wake Forest team. That in and of itself is enough to fire a dude.
However...
I don't think the Hokies will fire Loeffler, nor do I think they should. Firing 70 yr Frank Beamer's OC now would be like putting a band-aid on a severed ligament just prior to amputation.
No OC that is worth the effort of retooling the offensive scheme for the 2nd time in 3 years is going to come in and be an assistant on this staff, which is hodgepodge at best in the offensive meeting room.
The best way forward is to let Loeffler ride it out with Frank, and then clean house, at least offensively. In my opinion, the best way to do that, is to go out and get the best offensive coordinator Hokie dollars can buy, and let him bring his own people and his own system. I don't know if it will happen, and I know it's been mentioned, but I would love to see a serious effort to go get Chad Morris from Clemson, circa 2017, after Frank graciously retires.
FTFY
Wow.
I can't believe I missed that. That makes it tougher. Morris is a Texas guy.
agreed. i bet he wouldn't really hesitate to leave SMU for a bigger job though. seems like a stepping stool for him.
This is my thought. SMU for 1-2 years...gain some HC cred...come to VT!
That's what I was thinking when I learned of his hiring at SMU.
If he has a lot of success at SMU, and the Big 12 decides they want to expand, do they add SMU?
I'd say yes, but that is a big IF.
I think the Big 12 will want to expand in the very near future. It might be impossible for Morris to turn things around quickly enough to make SMU credible for Big 12 expansion.
Considering what just happened to them because they don't have a title game, I expect them to expand ASAP.
Would not be shocked to see ECU and someone else jump ship
I hope ECU does. At least then we are playing a P5 team for the next 50 years instead of an AAC team.
I think BYU and Cinci are both much more likely targets of the the Big 12 than ECU
Cincinnati seems like a very attractive option for them. BYU would be a good addition too, but I'm not so sure how the not playing on Sunday thing would work out.
I'm not following, why would not playing on Sunday be a big deal for a college football conference?
A football only conference wouldn't be, but when you consider basketball for example, it is a scheduling issue
We really are a spoiled bunch...those 10 win seasons will get after ya.
While I'm not thrilled with Loeffler, I've seen glimmers of hope.
I may be in the minority here, but could any of us arm chair coordinators done any better? There's no "B" button in the booth!
My biggest criticism of the man was his lack (or my perceived lack) of "in-game" adjustments.
Just follow Aaron Rodgers advice and RELAX!
"while I'm not thrilled with Loeffler, I've seen glimmers of hope." That pretty well sums it up.
It would be foolish to dump Loeffler now with FB nearing retirement, unless you are going to clean house starting with Frank, and I do not think that is warranted yet. Give 'em another year to build on, but we should expect some significant improvement next year, otherwise Frank should graciously retire.
I also think our recruiting has improved, look at all the freshmen playing this year (most at the positions they were recruited to - imagine that). Now let's make Bud happy, win the bowl game, close on a couple more 2015 recruits and look for 10+ wins next year.
Could him having a new baby right after the OSU game effected things this year? Having a kid is crazy. Coming off a huge win, having a baby, could jack up your head a bit...
just saying
^^^^I've been saying this all year long!!! When our offense is on, Loeffler looks like a genius. Perfect play design, play call, etc. When it is off, it's a combination of lack of execution and play calling. At the end of those losses I found myself saying: What happened to that genius up in the box? I believe that genius was dealing with adversity: 1) Having a newborn (extremely stressful and significant time in life) 2) Beamer's idea of an offense and 3) 4th string running back, 3rd string RT (just started play line this August), a QB that hasn't looked the same since being almost knocked out in the OSU game (Look at the replays. He must have blacked out at some point during that night. I wouldn't be surprised if it has had lasting effects on him throughout the season), Malleck playing injured for most of the season (quoted as being the key to the offense), 2 TRUE freshman wide receivers starting, roughly 80% of offensive points scored by those freshman, a new o-line coach who's vision of an offensive lineman is Andre the Giant (which is totally the opposite of Grimes' idea of slimming everyone down - which undoubtedly affected how our line moved. They probably felt like they just went through puberty again, tripping over themselves because of all the weight they had gained), our first loss of the season starting with us trailing 21-0 in the first quarter (surprised Loeffler's game plan didn't hit someone on the head in the west stands after it was thrown out the window), a QB who's first practice at Tech was in August, and many many more.
Our offense was not a team this season. They were like a NFL pro-bowl team. A bunch of athletes that have never played together, much less college football, were thrust together to perform on a national stage, at a national level. After all of this, we expected to have results better than we did this year? Sure it could have gone slightly better, but it was good enough for us to beat OSU and the team in Charlottesville. The OSU game was a fluke. The odds were against us. We happened to play like a team that night - a cohesive everyone-knows-what-they-should-be-doing-and-executing-correctly team. We played like the team you will watch on Saturdays this next fall.
It is interesting how many coordinators some programs go through though...look at Alabama, auburn, fsu I mean how many have they gone through in the last 5 years?
Teams like Alabama, OSu, FSU, Oregon do not go through rebuilding seasons. They are all loaded with 5* prospects. They just reload. A change in coordinator doesnt have negative impact since those recruits are usually ready to play immediately. Teams like Tech have lots of "project" recruits that sometimes change position and take longer to adapt . Teams like Tech goes through rebuilding mode since those recruits need time to develop.
Bingo. You need to try pretty hard to screw up a roster full of 5* players. It's definitely possible though.
YES. This was effectively year 1 of the rebuild.
Logan's senior year, I think they realized the cupboard was bare ass empty and ran what they could.
Another year in the system with the same coaches will benefit the team more than trying to change things up. This will be the first time a lot of the current players will have the same coach for more than 1 year. But that being said, if there isn't significant improvement from year 1 to year 2, Scot and potentially Beamer won't be back for the Battle at Bristol.
not to sound argumentative or rude but...
system? what system? people keep referring to "loeffler's system", and how the players just need more time to learn it. but what exactly is that? what is it that he wants to do on offense?
In short.
He wants to run a pro style.
Pro style relies on better players than the other guys.
Right now we don't have that so, to compensate, you run plays to develop favorable matchups.
Sometimes it's too cute but, that's what we got on a year with new players and broken starters everywhere.
Package plays that look like bubble screens and short passes to the sides because you are running out of running backs and your Oline can't give the qb 2 seconds to drop back 3 and pass.
With the talent we had on offense, if we hired a coach that was going to install a system that relies on having better players than the other guys, I really have to question the logic behind the hire
That's why the new guy requires time to get his players in place.
I think he proved with the Fr gets that he can do that in the skill positions. They just need some practice and maturity, which we began to see from the guys.
I think out WRs and TEs are up to snuff for a pro style with some seasoning. Just give us an oline and we're a go.
My point was more along the lines of - the general consensus is that Frank is believed to be retiring sooner, rather than later... on a team with minimal skill position talent, why would you make a hire that requires you to recruit 2,3 or 4 years to get enough talent on the team to win? Seems as though by the time VT has enough offensive talent to win that Beamer would be retiring, and VT would likely be replacing the OC again anyway.
Seems everybody but CFB and Whit are under the impression Frank has the time constraint you mention.
Apparently.
Frank has 6 years remaining on his contract. If he is still doing well health wise, I can see him playing it out. What would he do after he retires? Sit in the athletic department and arm chair coach? I can see that as a bigger deterrent to a new coach coming in than anything else when it does finally become time to replace him.
I was and still am leaning more towards firing, however, if next year is not a significant improvement then he HAS to go.
After Wake I was wanting to get rid of him then the weaknesses I saw in lack of adjustment at Wake, I saw not present at the UVA game.
He earned another year to see if he can take a healthy offense and make points.
Meh, if you hire someone new they still have the same injuries and weak offensive line play. Virginia Tech football is still looking to get back to it's bread and butter. You saw some flashes of that this season but it never really panned out thanks to injuries. Next year is judgement year in my opinion, and not just for Loeffler. There are other coaches I'd rather show the door to than him.
I don't think any OC would have done better with the injuries and talent we have. I'm not going to say youth as the youth has been studs to a degree.
So I would say no. Take away the injuries and have the same result, then strong maybe.
Teams that want to play for championship don't settle for 6-6 record. that's mediocre. Bo pellini was fired after a 9-3 season. with that said, VT is in a different situation. The team is young, so many injuries, attritions, position changes. even New England Patriots coach Bill wouldn't be able to overcome those issues. Lefty deserves at least a year when he has all his players to run his offense.
I want him to succeed next year, but I need to see a clear game plan in the bowl game first. He has four weeks to watch film and prepare a game plan, and then 15(?) practices to install that game plan. Win or lose, I expect to see a clear plan designed to beat Cincy. If this doesn't happen, then I think we have to search elsewhere.
I think we give him another year. There were glimmers of hope and we are so young. 2 years to implement a new system is not enough. You have to give him a chance to get some of these better recruits we have gotten on offense a chance to establish themselves.
He is under contract with a new AD; so I'd say he has done enough.
VT is not going to replace a guy they just hired; they just won't. Took nearly a decade to replace Steiney. This guy has the safest gig in college football. VT does not make rash decisions. He has at least 2 years left. I could see a new coach in 2016 (if its not Bud) bringing in "his" guys to run his offense. But Frank is going to stay the course and, honestly, no one with a track record of consistent success is on the market and coming here.
Everything we knew about Virginia Tech athletics is getting revised under Whit Babcock.
I'm not saying he will make a change this year, but I am saying if the head coach wasn't Frank Beamer, we're probably looking at wholesale changes this offseason.
I totally agree. Which is why after 2016, all bets are off.
But we are still in the Frank Beamer era. The offense has its issues, but a new OC doesn't change them, IMO
Yes, I want him to go. Everyone is giving him a pass because of the uVa game, which our offense was still pretty poor up until the end.
6-3 against Wake Forest. 0-0 regulation time. Our Pitt game. Our Georgia Tech game (although that's more on Brewer). MIAMI. Injuries only go so far as excuses, but there is NO EXCUSE to how we played against WF and even Miami.
2013. Duke. Maryland. Are people forgetting these games?
Yes 2013 was still the 'Logan Thomas era' so I can give him a pass there, but even then, what has he done in 2014 to warrant staying in VT? He had one good game in Ohio State which I can boil down to the opponent being unfamiliar with his style. The moment his highlight reels came out teams could prepare for him, and Loeffler is completely inept at in-game changes so once they locked down on his game plan they didn't need to do much else.
I know he's going to stay on, no way Beamer will fire him after two years, but he's a terrible coach and has been for a while. Auburn burned to the ground under him. Temple was alright but that was a while back.
Have we seen flashes of brilliance? Sure, but they're far and in between and you dont want 'flashes of brilliance' from an offense, you want consistent good play and that was not here this year nor was it here last year.
Let's wait for the Bowl game and see how it goes there, but it's not going to be pretty.
i agree with you. our bowl game is going to be HUGE for perception. people were understandably outraged after the wake forest game but quieted down a bit after loeffler gave that fiery interview and we subsequently beat our hated rivals for the 11th time in a row.
We put up 424 yards against Georgia Tech and gift wrapped 10 points to them in the fourth quarter with INTs deep in our own territory. It's easy to say what-if, I know that, but I think people would point to that game as one of the offenses stronger efforts if it weren't for the late turnovers. And really, if you watch those highlights, those INTs are not a result of play design or poor game planning by Loeffler. We put up over 400 yards of offense and over 30 points against BC. There are games we lost this year with relatively solid performances from our offense. I have a hunch that this conversation looks different with the team at 8-4. OSU was not the only solid performance from the offense this season.
My biggest fear: Innovative and forward thinking playcalling during the bowl game, because "why the hell not". Gets people thinking that we have the personnel to play that same way next year.
Next year rolls around: conservative playcalling with no real explosiveness
I really want to say no when you consider the dumpster fire offensive efforts in Pitt, Miami and of course the Wake Forest games. But I can't help but wonder how much injuries and poor O-line play affected the play calling. The defense also was gashed at times as well, so they cant be left totally off the hook. As a matter of fact the D reminded me a lot of the 2012 D which would play good most of the time but give up big plays late (Cincinnati, FSU). If we can avoid the injury bug and improve the O-Line play, I'll feel better about 2015.
However, that being said there has to be improvement next year for Beamer and Loeffler to hold on to their jobs...I'm honestly thinking 9-10 wins is the number for them to be safe.
imo no. play calling was suspect at best throughout the season and game adjustments were never seen or happened too late in many games.
What is typical protocol about timing of firings? Since we've heard nothing about Scot leaving should we expect him to stay? Could he be fired with a poor bowl performance?
I don't get the feeling that his recruits are "Loeffler" guys as much as they are "Virginia Tech" guys. I think that's important to keep in mind. Get someone fresh in there. We need a breath of fresh air. Loeffler reeks.
Typically ASAP. Already we're seeing HC's and coordinators moving around all over the place. At the very latest, it'd happen immediately after the bowl game.
And let's not forget that Loeffler has been on the job for less than 2 years. He's had 1 recruiting class. He is the breath of fresh air. Having that mindset ("It's been 2 years. This guy sucks. Get someone new.") is exactly how Michigan went from MICHIGAN to *meh* michigan, and that's something I never want to see from VT.
And he was forced to switch O-line coaches in between his two years. I'm not saying Loeffler is or is not the OC of the next great Hokies team, but I'm pretty comfortable saying it's unfair to judge his performance at this point.
Personally I'm glad he is under contract for one more year: I wouldn't want to fire him right now, but I wouldn't want to extend him, either.
NO WAY !! Period , fire him...
Broken record time.
He gets three years. IMO coordinators always get three years. Call me naive or old school, I've always said it and I still believe it.
For those trying to say this was really year one of the rebuild, no. Year one, you're always working with the other guy's players. You do what you can with what you've got. Trying to pad Lefty's three year allowance by claiming year one was "the Logan year" is an apologist argument.
I think Loeffler gets another year. Actually, what bothers me most about our whole offensive situation is the future of the QB position. Not that I don't like what I see in Durkin and Ford...I just haven't seen Durkin and Ford play in a real game. So next year we're banking on Brewer as our most experienced QB and, honestly, I credit a lot more of our losses to him than I do Lefty. When you look at the rest of our offense, we've got young playmakers at most of the other positions (yes, we're losing guys on the O-line, but we're showing promise behind them and it's not like we had a ton of production from them anyway). I'm not so worried about them, I'm worried that Loeffler still won't have "his system" in place next year because he'll still be shaping our offense around the shortcomings of his QB (thought maybe that's what makes a good OC?)
So while I agree with IllinoisHokie that he gets 3 years, the QB question will definitely cloud the picture when it comes to identifying his effectiveness as an OC.
I don't think that Loeffler has necessarily done enough to be retained. The problem is that Beamer's overall program is so deflated right now & he is so near the end of his career (two years, max) that it seems pointless to reboot with yet another OC that will be forced to comply with Frank's vision for offense. Everybody coming in is going to be aware of those two negatives. Add in a probable third negative of - any new OC candidate would have to be agreeable to not bringing in a single assistant of their own.
At this point, it seems like a better chance for productivity the next couple years to leave Loeffler than to select someone else. If next year goes bad, the window for Frank's retirement probably becomes immediate, instead of waiting until 2016's big finale season. If next season somehow breaks trend and predictability and is successful, then you'd keep Loeffler. Like him or not, this is the guy who will be OC until Frank retires.
I think your question is all backward. This early in a coach's tenure, it's more reasonable to question whether or not he's done anything to justify getting canned. Look at the situation Scot inherited. The offense was a disaster. The cupboard was bare, offensive talent-wise. The offensive line was a mess. Add to that the myriad injuries we had to deal with this year. The guy deserves another year to right the ship.
If he had been hired to take the reins of a successful offense, then MAYBE you could say that two years of poor results is enough to justify a firing, but in most cases, you have to give a coach or coordinator 3 years to prove his worth. Without some serious malfeasance (recruiting violations, dead hookers in the trunk of his car, sending a concussed QB back on the field, sleeping with Mrs. Grimes, etc), or an unsolicited call from a top-flight coordinator wanting to join the VT staff, I honestly can't see any justification for getting rid of him this soon.
Now, if this time next year, the team is 6-6 again and the offense still shows no signs of life, I think it'll be time to have this conversation.
Hear, hear.
This on a stick, dipped in chocolate.
Next year is judgment year for Scot. The gloves are off and all goodwill is exhausted. And reality is, with his first two years being what they were, his judgment will be a lot harsher than it would have been had we seen a middle of the pack offense these past two seasons.
I'm not saying we have to win the ACC next year, but the offense needs to be competent, efficient and disciplined. It needs to come together next season if Scot has any hope of saving his job.