#Hokies DE Dadi Nicolas says he'll submit paperwork w/ NFL Draft advisory board. No decision yet, but he's scheduled to graduate this month.— Hokies Journal (@HokiesJournal) December 11, 2014
Crazy to think Dadi has the opportunity to leave. Would we blame him heck no. These kids get 1 chance to go to the NFL and 1 injury could ruin that for them. Now I know people will start to freak out but he can submit paperwork and get results back then make the decisions. This seems to be the norm for kids that know they have NFL talent but don't know whether to leave or stay. Dadi is expected to graduate so he is definitely eligible to leave if he gets a good Draft Grade back.
So lets say Dadi does go, who would slide in to fill the gaping hole? We have Dwayne Alford, Dooley, Melvin Keihn, maybe a Vinny Mihota would be moved back outside? I really think keihn would have the best shot but he is still young.
Hokies lets chat away!!!!
Comments
Dadi entering the draft would torpedo Tech's defensive end depth.
I don't think Foster / Wiles see Mihota or Marshall as ends. Keihn might be able to grow into an end, but he's 209 pounds and not a firecracker off the line like Dadi.
But hey, don't sweat DE recruiting misses, amirite? (swidt)
If he goes, it'll be because he got a good rating, and can't fault him at all for that.
But damn, I really hope he sticks around for one more year.
Dadi gotta get that cash...
http://genius.com/Styles-p-daddy-get-that-cash-lyrics
I'm surprised someone else on this board knew this song. Man, been a while since I listened to this song/album. My boy Styles.
No surprise. This board is quite diverse.
And yes, it was the first thing I thought of, and I was a little surprised no one caught it.
Good job!
I look at this like when Worilds declared. He's not playing the position he'll have to play to make a NFL team. He won't be higher regarded one year from now by NFL scouts as he'll still be considered a guy playing a different position from what the pros will want to see him play. So, if he wants to make the leap, go now.
This was my first thought too. But Worilds grew into a rotation guy in Pittsburg, so hopefully Dadi can get his footing in the NFL too.
Worilds left a big hole on the line the year after he left too.
Worilds got the franchise tag and is making $10M this season. Never would've predicted that when he left Tech. Good for him.
My personal opinion is Dadi projects much better as a 3-4 OLB than Worilds did when he left.
Worilds was NFL ready when he came out, at least body wise. Dadi is still considered too small to be the pass rushing specialist that we often see at OLB these days. I think he needs another year to bulk up and/or to improve the looseness of his hips/skill in coverage. If he has a big bowl game (i.e. 3 tfl and a couple of sacks) I could see him taking the risk, but it could be a mistake. I think he would definitely be drafted either way, but coming out this year would probably cost him a couple of rounds.
I agree on Worilds having the more NFL-ready body. I just don't see (based on the past 4 years) how Dadi is going to add 20 pounds to his frame prior to Spring 2016. His coverage skills won't improve at VT because he'll be playing End.
I hope he stays but totally understand if he goes. He would make a team next year as a special teams player for sure, while working to become a linebacker.
You raised a solid point about Dadi - he has already been in the program for four years now, how is he suddenly going to pack on 20 more pounds of muscle when he's had four years to do so already?
What others might be ignoring is this - factors like the lack of depth on defense, the continued failure to land in-state elite talent, the habitual woes on offense, and the uncertainty about the overall status of the program - all of these are factors that Bud Foster recognizes.
maybe he's comfortable playing faster at this weight right now? perhaps nobody has asked him to go bigger?
from a strength and conditioning standpoint, if he realizes he needs to add 20 pounds, i'm sure he could do it.
Foster has been quoted as saying that if he got to 250 nobody could block him. To me that's reason enough right there to try to pack on some pounds.
forgot about that. leg for ya.
So with 20 extra pounds, after four years of already being in heavy S&C, how much speed & agility does he lose? Suddenly, is his S&C preparing him maximally for the NFL LB position where he'll be slotted? It seems like we'd have put the extra 20 on him - playing DE - if he were going to gain it while at VT.
Actually Dadi drops into coverage several times a game. That's an area I am sure the staff is trying to improve.
I agree about getting to 250, but he gained around 10 pounds this offseason IIRC and has carried it well. I think he could get to 240 without losing too much (he has room to grow in his body) which would go a long way toward improving his draft stock.
IIRC Macho Harris submitted paperwork, then stayed. Exum declared, then decided to stay as well. Kids do this just to stick a toe in the water. Have to wait and see.
Edit: nvm better info already posted below
if he does go, in that leaves us with depth concerns, do you think Foster would consider switching to a 3-4 or 3-3-5, using our smaller DTs as DEs and moving our smaller DEs to LBs?
DADI DON"T GO!
It's unlikely he receives that grade.
Kind of hoping he gets a low second round through fourth round evaluation for this year with the critique of put on some more weight and come back next year.
That's not an option this yr. It's either likely 1st round, likely 2nd round, or stay in school.
He's not good enough to go that high right now. Another productive year, adding some pounds, he may be there next year.
As long as he doesn't get Shyrone Stith's NFL draft evaluator, I think we should be OK.
Stith's problem was that he listened to his friends and went for a money grab instead of an open assessment.
Mel Kiper was his friend?
Oh, right, like it wasn't known in New Orleans before the Sugar Bowl was even played that Stith was going pro, and not because of Mel Kiper, either. That's the simplistic way to blame outsiders for a dumb decision made by a Hokie player. Shyrone listened too much to those around him, and not to experts. Blame Kiper if you like, but that was not the reason Stith left.
I think he was an NFL lean and hearing Kiper's praises was the nudge that tipped him, with the assumption Kiper knew what the hell he was talking about. I'm not really blaming anyone, but you and I do disagree that Kiper's praise was not a major contributing factor to the decision to declare.
It was a joke brah. Simmer down.
Billy Hite himself PUBLICLY blamed Mel Kiper. He spoke about it openly severally times including just a few years ago when he recapped his phone conversation with Kiper on TTL.
Size will be major the limiting factor. The lightest DE drafted last year was 247. Dadi is only 230. He obviously projects to be an OLB, but without any experience in that position, would he be drafted in the first two rounds?
Can anyone honestly say he's a top 6-10 LB in the upcoming draft?
Wow..I hope Dadi gets the feedback he wants to hear, but his would be possibly the worst thing that could happen to Virginia Tech football after the whiffs in recruiting at that exact position.
Which echoes why it is so vital that we improve our recruiting and stop missing out on so many of the elite in-state players. We're very much lacking depth on DL, and our shot at getting a great replacement for Dadi went to F$U. Now Bud is deciding whether to leave the program or not, and Dadi is thinking about leaving early.
Yet some people want to pretend everything is fine with the program and that Frank will lead us to glory, just give him enough time. However long that might be, just give him more time. And still more time.
We are reaping what we sowed earlier.
I disagree, and frankly I'm sick of this sentiment. I admire frank Beamer for what he's built at Virginia tech, and the entitlement of certain fans makes me really angry. Neither you nor I have done squat all to build this program. Frank MF Beamer (and Bud MF Foster) did. We just pay to watch their brilliance.
All this talk about, "we deserve to have CFB step down because we have season tickets" is ridiculous. Just let the man run his program and root for him to get his championship.
AMEN.
FALSE!
If he leaves that means he got a 1st/2nd round grade. If he gets drafted in the 1st/2nd, recruiting gets a boost.
Eh, potentially. The problem is that we don't have anyone to fill in his spot NOW.
So far, very few of all these things that are supposed to give our recruiting a boost have actually done so. Put me in the 'wait to see it happen' column on that.
If he goes, boy are we going to have some struggles going forward on the DL
We just don't have the depth to overcome anyone leaving early right now, especially at DE
If he is not terrorizing opposing qbs for us next year then hopefully he is doing it for the Silver and Black. Best of luck whatever your decision is!
We could really use a DE like him in Carolina after all the stuff that has happened this year.
Even better if we can pick him up in the 2nd or 3rd round
He wouldn't fit well as a 4-3 DE in the NFL, and the Panthers have had zero luck getting the tweener types to work out. I think it's best for both parties if they pass on this one.
Silver and black? Why do you hate Dadi? The only fate worse for an NFL prospect is Cleveland.
cough redskins cough
I wouldn't wish the skins on any player coming out of college right now... and thats my team. Its been a tough football season all around...
Sure the 'Skins suck and you won't win anything if you're drafted there, but they don't have the history of absolutely killing careers the way Cleveland and Oakland do, do they? Washington seems to have 2 advantages: You can get overpaid, and if you can get out of there, you can still have a decent career, I would think.
Are we just purposely forgetting the Jaguars exist?
Most of the good folks of Jacksonville seem to have done so. Why shouldn't the rest of us follow suit?
I'd be surprised if he gets rated anything higher than a 3rd round grade at this point. He'd be considered a developmental prospect with a high ceiling and usually teams don't start taking chances like those until you get to those late 3rd round compensatory picks. In today's NFL, you expect to start seeing the 1st-3rd round picks come in to compete for jobs right away.
JMO
I won't predict what grade he'll get but it seems like most guys get higher grades than where they actually get drafted. Personally, I'd be surprised if he didn't go in the first two rounds, especially after he absolutely kills it at the combine. He could use some more bulk but hard to find guys with that frame, speed, and production on the field. IMO he could be extremely productive as a 3-4 OLB in the right system.
i doubt Foster Changes his alignment to a 3-4, but it would be interesting to see who can pick up the slack at DE if Dadi did leave
No no no no no no no, well I'm going to go sit in a corner.
I really think another year would improve his draft stock. He's a stud now but after only starting 1 years and playing football for such a short time (I don't think he started until mid-High School?) another year as a starter on an elite D could only help him in the NFL.
Best wishes to him regardless of his decision. He seems like a great kid and love his motor!
The conversations here have also identified alot of the reasons that we dont get some of the top talent to commit here in my opinion. Bud does an amazing job coaching college level defense but he typically uses smaller players at positions than would be expected at the NFL level other than our secondary, and the secondary is about the only place where we constantly get guys drafted or drafted highly. Worilds and Nicholas both would be expected to transition to outside linebacker at the NFL level but they cant expect to receive time playing that way with the Hokies so they are behind the eight ball unless they convince some team to play them at end. This has happened to a ton of Hokies coming out. The one that has always haunted me is how Corey Moore couldnt translate at the NFL level after having arguably one of the best careers on defense of anyone to ever come to Tech.
Even our linebackers have issues translating. Alot of guys that play linebacker for us end up having to try to fit as safeties at the NFL level. I truly believe this is why we have difficulty getting the top guys because those players already consider themselves on the path to the NFL and they want to go to the places that consistently put people there at the highest levels. This hurts us since Bud and his coaches are so good at coaching up talent to fit their system rather than having a system molded by talent such as seen at Alabama, Florida State and even Ohio State. I am sure its a big part of the sales pitch for those schools when they can say look how many defensive ends we have placed in the league in the last five years in the top three rounds. We cant say those things unfortunately.
Rob, this is a great point. It's hard to show people that we put DE into the league when they end up as OLB, or that we can put LBs into the league if they end up as safeties. That isn't their fault, or Bud's fault, or anyone's fault, but our players on defense are typically smaller than the players who play the same positions on Alabama and FSU. The exception is corner, where we play guys that are the same size as anyone else, and have the best secondary coach in the country. If the NFL doesn't want a 6-4/235 DE, then some of the guys that come through our system just won't be playing that position in the league, no matter how well they play for us.
It's a circular argument that is very difficult to break. Bud needs elite recruits to show how he can put kids in the NFL at the position, but we can't recruit the elite recruits in part because Bud doesn't put those kids in the NFL at their position. Bud also isn't the best recruiter so that's probably part of it as well.
Listen, we talk this nonsense stuff about NFL history every time we miss on a national recruit. But here is the thing, do you really think these 5* guys really think they need any help getting to the NFL? I doubt it. You don't get that good without some inflation of the ego.
Unfortunately it also ends up being somewhat of a self-fulfilling prophecy. The highly rated guys (more likely to have the size AND speed) don't consider VT because the lower rated guys we did sign don't have the size to translate well to the NFL. Can you imagine Bud with a DE like Jadaveon Clowney though? He would have racked up the sacks and the system wouldn't have changed a thing when it came time for him to be drafted.
I would argue that Worilds has transitioned quite well to OLB. True, it took him a few years to bulk up to the man-beast he is now and to learn the system in Pittsburg, but he is the starter and has been given the franchise tag by the Steelers. His being there enabled them to release Woodley. Tapp is another one that transitioned well, he is with his third team now (I think) but is still playing.
As for Corey Moore, that one hurt me too. I would have loved to see him destroy QBs in the NFL, but his problem was that the team (the Bills) wouldn't even try him at his natural position as an end. They took his hand off of the ground and put him at middle linebacker, a position that he had never played, and didn't understand. I think he had the talent to succeed as an end in the NFL, but the Bills were stuck on a mold that he didn't fit.
Worilds eventually did translate well but it wasnt his first or second season. He really flourished in his third year in the league and if he hadnt been on the Steelers or a similar team that is determined to develop talent internally, he likely would have been out of the league before getting to that third year. He played a role on special teams that kept him on the roster and then played a few games year two due to injuries. Year three he finally was established playing OLB in almost every game. Last year was somewhat of a breakout year, which is why they franchised him to see if he was worth a long term contract. Most players wouldnt have been given the opportunity to get to that point though.
I would argue that Tapp hasnt really had to transition, as he played defensive end for Seattle and Philadelphia. Washington tried to get some linebacker out of him but that didnt last long and now he is back at end for Detroit. In Seattle he was fortunate to be able to contribute on special teams as a rookie and then by happenstance both ends in front of him were gone the next season. His second and third years though were the only time in the league that he really was a starter though. Since then he has been a pass rush specialist used sparingly. So far this season he has 12 tackles in 13 games played.
All that said, its still only two players in the last ten years to make the league as DE/OLB for the most part. Some of the top schools have that in one season some years unfortunately and essentially have at least one almost every season to be able to point to as a recruiting tool.
The small number of successes along the DL/OL players is pretty telling when you consider how highly ranked Bud's defenses tend to be. Like you said, we can translate our DB's very well. Just not anyone else with regularity.
The analogy to Paul Johnson's offense at GaTech could be drawn pretty well. Which would also explain the low percentage of elite recruits coming in, to a degree.
Others have pointed to the system that Bud has run as the reason for a lack of NFL success for VT players for a long time, but it isn't really true. The best prospects coming out of VT have always been drafted. Worilds, Tapp, James Andersen, Ben Taylor, Cornell Brown, etc. The true misses have been few. Xavier Adibi and Corey Moore, although Moore never should have been put at LB, I don't think he had ever keyed on a RB in his life prior to that and knee issues didn't help.The issue has been that fewer VT players have what it takes (in terms of physical gifts) to succeed in the NFL. This goes back to talent and recruiting. Very rarely has Bud had "prototypical" players for his system- for the most part it does not rely upon undersized players. If you're big and can play fast (see Deshawn Hand) there's a place in VT's defense for you. The only exception is at DT, where the emphasis on and type of gap penetration is different from what a lot of teams do. Bud does an excellent job of getting the most out of these young men and an above-average job of getting guys NFL ready.
Linebacker is a different issue, as Bud doesn't let his LB's just run around and be free hitters like in other systems. A lot of LB's don't want to have to challenge blockers and clog up gaps to let others make plays like Bud often has them do.
Guys who want the VT experience will continue to come here, while guys who want to have another kind of experience (blue blood, national titles, etc) will unfortunately continue to go elsewhere. It would take major program changes to alter that for good. That being said, there's nothing wrong with having good college players who wont be NFL stars. Great defenses can and are comprised of those players. The issue is stocking the cupboard with a sufficient number of good VT guys...
Adibi stuck around a few years in the NFL.
Fair point, leg for you.
Sounds like the answer is for Bud to leave for and NFL DC job, take his schemes with him and win a couple superbowls 38-0, causing the rest of the league to start adopting those schemes and needing those sorts of players, then Bud comes back to be head coach at VT after Beamer retires.
Easy-peasy.
Would you like your best idea ever checks written out to krak_t or...
This is a tail wagging the dog view of the situation, IMO. Foster's "system" is not the problem per se -- particularly not for DE's. Elite size and speed DE's would absolutely flourish in his current system. The problem is that VT doesn't get them.
I don't know that the same can be said for DT's in his system as it currently exists. But given that Foster has shown the ability to evolve and adapt to changing offenses, I have no reason to believe that if, say, a Ndamukong Suh were to enroll at VT, Foster would have no problem adjusting and utilizing that skill set to maximum benefit for VT and the player.
The problem as I see it is not the system but rather the 3* and low-to-mid 4* talent that VT is going to get 95% of the time. The reason guys are rated as such rather than high 4* is almost always because they either lack size or lack athletic ability (or lack a bit of both).
Knowing this, I would say that VT leans toward those with athletic ability over those with just size (or the slightly small/slightly slow guys) -- and has developed a approach that requires speed over size. But there is no reason that VT's system can't adapt to a big guy with speed and to develop NFL potential in that revised system.
Kam Chancellor would be a good example of this -- sizewise on paper he was a perfect fit for Whip in VT's defense at that time - not safety. But because he also had athletic ability, Foster used him at safety and adapted his scheme to Chancellor's strength's (and weaknesses) while providing him the foundation to eventually become a pro bowl NFL talent.
I think he'll stay because I think the draft advisory board will give him lower than a second round grade, not because he isn't awesome but because his size doesn't fit his position in the league. Another year, with a little more bulk added, and I think he'd be a great pick for someone running a 3-4 as an OLB. Since he hasn't played that position, I his draft stock will be affected.
Dadi's size is going to hurt him badly, as he projects to be an "elephant man" pass rushing outside linebacker at the NFL level. To give some recent examples of players flourishing in that role, go no further than the two leaders in sacks this season: Elvis Dumervill and Justin Houston.
Both are considered to be liabilities against the run, and both are guys who are ideally suited as pass rush specialists on teams where they have strong defensive interior linemen to the inside to protect them against draws and screens. Now for the kicker.
Dumervil is 255 pounds.
Houston is 258 pounds. And, does anyone remember him at Georgia? I don't.
The point is, no matter how explosive and special Dadi is, the NFL is going to look at his inability to add size and take on blocks as a liability that won't allow him to be an every down player. No NFL GM in his right mind should take a guy in the top two rounds who he doesn't think can play every snap. Undersized guys with that speed like Dwight Freeny and Von Miller are still much bigger than Dadi is.
I think Dadi can make it. But until he is sniffing 240+ and retaining that quickness, I don't think he is going to the NFL.
Agreeing with you.
With that said, since he is graduating, he might as well just go for the NFL this coming year. Even if he stays around, gains 10 pounds, and wins a whole bunch of awards next season, it is unlikely that he will be drafted in the first couple rounds.
As much as I like Dadi on the Hokies, I am really struggling to peg him as a top 2 round pick as of right now. I'll gladly stand corrected if I'm proved wrong though.
FWIW, as near as I can tell from a web search, Dane Brugler's talent evaluation credentials consist almost entirely of owning and operating a website called NFLDraftScout.com...
The fact that one player could tremendously affect our depth and talent and a poor reflection on our DE recruiting.
And by extension a poorer reflection on our OL recruiting.
Its bad timing but after watching Dadi & Ekanem sandwiched Greyson Lambert, there is a good chance Dadi gets a 1st or 2nd round grade from the NFL .
Lambert would surely tell Dadi he'll be the #1 overall pick.
At this point, I'm not so sure if Lambert even knows what football is anymore.
I heard from reliable sources* that he was taking online courses.
*James Gayle
that rhymes........just sayin....
As a 49ers fan, I see a lot of similarities in Dadi's game to Aldon Smith. I don't think we will see any off the field issues with Dadi tho. He needs to put on some weight but the explosiveness and speed is there. That said I hope he comes back for senior year but he could be an Aldon Smith type of pass rusher in the NFL.
As a fellow 49ers fan, 2 things:
1) What the crap? You can't hit the QB in the head, chest, or knees, so what the heck are they supposed to do? Ask him politely to go down for the sack? Get your crap together, NFL. I'm all for player safety, but at some point you need to just let the guys play the damn sport.
2) Dadi paired with Smith, adding depth behind Smith... mmmm....
*EDIT* Holy crap, a 30 package on 3rd and 15 with Aldon and Dadi on the outside, Justin in the middle.... Oh snap, I need clean shorts.
Similar game. 45 lbs lighter. It's hard to be an elite rusher in the NFL at 220.