I've come across several people recently who believe that, since we line up in the shotgun so much, we are running a spread offense.
This is nonsensical to me, but I have a hard time explaining the difference between an offense that runs zone blocking plays and an offense committed to the spread like Oregon. Can you elaborate?
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I'm no football guru here...but I think the question you're asking is kinda like comparing apples and oranges
Shotgun is a formation
Spread is more of a concept
Spread Offenses can use the shotgun formation
The shotgun formation is also used in pro-style offenses
the two aren't mutually exclusive
I understand that, which is why I'm trying to nail down how our shotgun sets and plays differ from those of a spread offense.
this questions has far too complicated of an answer for me to answer (i'm severely under-qualified to carry on intelligent football discussions)...but since nobody else is trying I guess I'll give it a shot
I suspect that one of the reasons we run so many plays from shotgun is due to comfort (or lack thereof) with the offensive line. In the last few years we have very rarely seen the QB take any snaps from under center so most of our offensive plays are run from shotgun or pistol. (I'm not exactly certain of the distinction but I believe in the shotgun formation the QB is further from the center than in pistol)
That being said we still don't have much of an 'identity' which has been frustrating for fans. Loeffler has said that he wants to run a run-heavy-pro-style-offense but we haven't really seen that. The last couple seasons our offense has been billed as 'multiple' which, to me, means that we put together custom gameplans for each opponent to try and establish mismatches without putting any focus on a base set of plays or concepts. We use a lot of pre-snap motion and tons of different formations and personnel groupings to try and achieve some advantage over the defense. We don't exactly run a spread offense although I would say that some of our formations and concepts do come from the Spread Offense for Dummys book. On the other side of the same coin we don't really run a pro-style offense but some of our formations and plays do look very pro style. It is just a mixed bag..we don't really know what we are. We have even done some hurry-up-no-huddle a few times the last couple years (with some success, I might add) but we very seldom stick with any one concept or idea. It's constantly changing.
The only thing that seems to be pretty consistent over the last 2 years is that most of our plays are run from some form of the shotgun or pistol formations. I can probably count the number of plays we've run from under center in the last 25 games on all of my appendages.
I think generally speaking it's true to say that most Spread Offenses are run from shotgun or pistol formations as well, though they don't necessarily have to be. The Spread Offense gets its name from spreading the field. By putting game breaking playmakers allover the field the offense can spread the defense out. You're not going to see a whole lot of I formation or 'man ball' with spread teams. Instead of having 2 and 3 TE sets on the field a Spread Team will put 4 WRs, a RB and probably a mobile QB out on the field forcing the defense to give up some size for some speed. By getting WRs all over the field you force the defense to spread out which creates a lot more space for your playmakers to work with once they have the ball. You're not going to see many 7 or 8 man boxes against a Spread Offense. With only 6 in the box it's not as difficult for a less talented team to run against a good defense and if that defense starts to stack the box the WRs will have opportunities to win 1-on-1 battles for big plays which puts a lot of strain on the defense.
In a Pistol formation the Running Back aligns directly behind the Quarterback, while in a Shotgun he is aligned beside the Quarterback (and possibly slightly behind).
Edit: You were correct about the spacing differences though, QB is usually 3-4 yards deep in a Pistol Look and 5-7 yards deep in a Shotgun. Also should have mentioned that Shotgun formations don't always have a Running Back beside the QB.
Another amateur stab here but I'd argue that we do actually employ spread concepts quite frequently in our offense. I guess it could be argued that a true spread offense in your question could be characterized as more of a mindset or philosophy where the spread concept (spreading people out... vertically and horizontally... sometimes wide splits, sometimes not) is consistently used beginning to end... and is also the idea which foundation/bread and butter plays are built upon. And all supplement plays are also run from spread formations.
In that respect we do employ spread concepts but obviously not exclusively as we're probably a multiple formation type offense. But I'd have a hard time explaining what our "bread and butter" or true identity is... i know that his has been discussed in the past at length on TKP so I'm sure there are others who can unpack that more intelligibly.
I also think most of it has to do with who has been behind the helm at QB too
So then I guess a corollary question is, what distinguishes our pro style offense from a spread offense in general.
Our "pro" style offense is geared towards running the ball. I wouldn't call what we're running right now to be a pro style offense. I would call it an "oh crap" offense. A spread style offense is geared towards throwing the ball. Every single play, the ball will get thrown with the goal being getting play makers out in space with the ball. One other concept of the spread is creating mismatches by spreading the entire offense out and then seeing who lines up where. The concept behind this is that if the defense has to cover 6 potential playmakers, you'll have 6 men lined up in man coverage with 3-4 pass rushers, meaning that you have very few people in zone coverage to save defenders that are mismatched. For example, if everyone is spread out wide, and a linebacker lines up against Bucky Hodges, you know he's the guy you want to throw it to.
This is not to say that a spread offense does not run the ball. They do. They just do it in a less traditional way. Usually, you have runs that lead into play action. In a spread you have passes which lead into draw plays. You'll also see a lot of jet sweeps from a spread offense.
For an example of what a spread offsense looks like in practice, look at teams like Oregon and ECU. Oregon makes use of the concept by playing an uptempo offense that scores frequently by using big explosive plays. ECU uses the spread in a similar way to how Paul Johnson uses the triple option. They march down the field most of the game and then get gash yardage with an explosive play. This is actually similar to how VT football used to look with the old "Caveman" concepts. We ran the ball, ran the ball, and ran the ball again until we had the defense into a rhythm, and then we would make a gash play.
So I guess I would say what differentiates a spread offense from what we do is that a spread offense is based around a small playbook with few formations. Our playbook is one of the largest and longest texts that has been written in modern history. If you really want to get into offensive playbook size, look at the analysis of Gus Malzahn's offense. It's one of the thinnest playbooks in college football.
A spread style offense is not necessarily geared to throwing the ball. The Oregon spread is run-first. The Mike Leach spread is pass-first.
Very true. Many very successful spread offense teams are run-dominant. It's something that many spread detractors ignore, either out of lack of familiarity, or just a dismissal of the new offensive concept.
This is what our playbook looks like, true story:
This is the only true distinction to be made. "Spread offenses" focus on running their plays out of spread formations. Pro-style offenses don't limit themselves to those formations, but are happy to cherry pick which tactics they want to steal from spread teams like Oregon/Ohio State/Arizona to use when convenient.
The truth is, there is no such thing as " THE Spread Offense".
Look at the tactics used by Oregon, Texas Tech, Ohio State... all three undeniable "spread teams" and yet all three use very different tactics to put the ball in the end zone. The trait that a spread offense has is it's tendency to attack the defense horizontally by stretching the defense along the line of scrimmage with multiple wide receivers. From here, spread offenses will often specialize to attack the space created by the defensive stretching... running variations of the zone read with play action mixed in (Oregon), using Air Raid concepts to throw against isolated defenders (Texas Tech), using a running quarterback as a primary run threat (Ohio State). Tactically, all three teams are very different.
The "spread offense" label encompasses so many tactics and concepts at this point that it's basically lost any real meaning. It's a term that fans use to describe a team which operates mostly out of the shotgun/pistol and at least 3WR sets.
If I had to put a label on the Virginia Tech offense the past two years, it's definitely been more spread than anything else.
A "spread offense" to me is a catch all term for any offensive system that uses three wide receivers and flexes out a tight end or uses four and five wides most of the time. Shotgun is merely a quarterback alignment, similar to the pistol.
Teams that have been identified as "spread" teams actually run wildly different offensive systems. Meyer, Malzahn, and Chad Morris use a run-oriented "spread" that essentially operates as a spread out combination of option football and the old Single Wing/Wing T offense. The Air Raid is a pass first offense with route concepts where the play called calls a concept, and then the receiver runs his route based on how he is defended. Other teams run similar passing packages, but use very basic zone read run plays (ala Texas with Vince Young.)
I am still learning about those systems. I am most comfortable with Clemson and tOSU's offense because I played in wing-t and power I systems and they have characteristics of both. In the absence of going to multiple coaching clinics, I'd strongly recommend reading Chris Brown's SmartFootball.com. Here is a great piece on the Air Raid from Chris.
http://smartfootball.com/offense/the-air-raid-offense-history-evolution-...