Hokies closed out a 7-6 campaign. They dealt with a plethora of injuries and everyone on offense that matters (save Byrn) is back. The defense you saw this year is back with the exception of Jarrett and Bonner, but safety has plenty of talented depth.
Buy or sell the 2015 hype?
Forums:
DISCLAIMER: Forum topics may not have been written or edited by The Key Play staff.
Comments
Get me a gunslinger and I'm on board!
We've got a shot next year. That's all I'll say.
But it's been a LONG time since we've had a shot.
I think it's all about the O line. If they improve a lot, then yeah, I think we have a shot. The RBs will be solid, and Bucky +Ryan+Isaiah+Cam will be a solid receiving corp. If we build some DE depth too and T. Hill competes for playing time, then I'm buying a first class ticket.
What about the QB situation?
Honestly one of the more irrelevant positions heading into the offseason. Sooooo much more is going to determine the fate of the offense: health/development of the OLine, health of the running backs coming back from injury, and the development of the young receivers/Bucky. Can Brewer improve? You betcha. However, he was a first-year starting QB this year, and unless you've got Bama/FSU talent around him, a first-year starter is almost always going to struggle. Lefty couldn't be more excited that he's got a returning quarterback who can spend another offseason learning the offense and developing as a quarterback and leader. I think we'll be set with Brewer for the next year and then enter into a completely wide-open QB competition for 2016.
^This 1000%. In my mind at least, it is dependent on improved O-line and needed depth at D-line. The question is, will our O-line improve and will we have depth for the D-line.
I think spending an off-season with Gentry will make a huge difference for Brewer as well. Let's not forget that he came to Tech after Spring practice was over and he'd been out of football for a while. I think he was pretty banged up this year and some solid strength & conditioning will help him get healthy and stay healthy next year.
Brewer has bought my loyalty with these last two games, especially the UVA game. He might lose us a game or two next year, but he can put up good numbers. Now, I expect him to try to improve his decision making during the offseason, otherwise his INTs will be the end of us.
I would say "earned" instead of bought, but yeah. That. Exactly. I was pretty hard on the young man all year, but that kind of courage goes a long way with me.
To me Brewer has a lot of Brett Favre in him (I know people have mixed feeleings about Favre). He's going to throw a decent amount of interceptions, but the guy will do anything to win. The Ohio State game sold me on him. And despite some really poor outings, I knew the kid would bounce back. I'll take a winner (over a whiner) any day.
Don't forget about Kline. I think he will make an impact as well.
We have no Shot next year without Better O-line play or better QB play. Im excited to see Andrew Ford hopefully get a chance.
Im happy with the Win though. Just hope our Offense can get better. I think if we had better coaching we have chance to be amazing on Offense. Cant wait for Bucky next season as well
Brewer is not a bad player. He can do what we need him too. The situation he was in was bad. It seemed like every pass that was caught today was by a freshman. He gets hit a ton. He had some bad throws for sure, and was even pretty bad at times this year, but it wasnt just him. This team had some bad performances this season. Take your lumps with a young team and things start coming together. I think the players believe in Brewer and he will put in the work to be best he can.
I like the intangible stuff Brewer does, picking up his teammates fumbles, catching passes, making blocks etc. Im pulling for him to be a part of a great season next year. The last two games were a good sign, we will see. Whoever wins the job should have better production than this year.
Brewer's tendency to stare at blitzers and not get rid of the ball is Glennon-esque. He needs to get better at handling pressure.
Both tough son of a guns.
Brewer would salivate at the thought of having the skill players around him that Glennon did.
Barring injury, he'll have them next year.
No he won't.
I don't know man. Compare Branden Ore and Mike Imoh to our current backfield, and Royal, Morgan, Hymes and Harper to Bucky, Cam, Ford and Malleck and it's not too far off. The receivers were much, much deeper, but other than that it's not a ridiculous comparison.
I would take Ore at his best over anyone on the current roster, and I'm also pretty sure Darren Evans had his monster game against Maryland with Glennon under center.
Factor in Boone at tight end, and the receiving corp is definitely better. I love our young group, but no doubt was Glennons group group better.
And his offensive line just seals the deal.
We were talking skill positions. No doubt was Glennon's line better, and Glennon's line wasn't good. But I will say, put Brewer behind Glennon's line but keep this squad's skill position players and Brewer looks like a much better quarterback.
IMO, I. Ford and Phillips have a higher ceiling than any receiver Glennon threw a pass to. But they aren't there yet.
Royal and Morgan are still in the NFL. I love Tecs young group, but Glennon was throwing to guys who are STILL IN THE NFL.
Those offenses were more talented, by far. It's was terrible scheming by Stinespring and occasional subpar qb play which held the Hokie offense back all those years.
And I still think Ford and Phillips have a higher ceiling.
No doubt I could be wrong, but I sincerely believe it.
they will put up better stats than those guys, but neither have the measurables (mainly speed) that the NFL covets. Another big reason they will put up better stats is because we have become so pass happy compared to the teams back then that could actually run the ball. I'm high on both of these guys, more so ford, but let's not forget we had 3 500+ yard WRs last year and thought they were going to keep developing this offseason as well. Now Stanford is gone, byrn had a decent year again, and Knowles isn't seeing the field.
But we still have 2 guys that catch the ball 3 ft out of bounds and 2 excellent TE's that grew a lot as the year went on (pun intended).
Don't forget we hope to have Cline back next season. Bucky, Malleck and Cline. A 3 TE set you can pass out of.
Chills.
Both of those guys would have to make huge leaps this offseason to even be comparable, and Ford will be spending a large amount of his offseason playing basketball, not working on his football game.
That being said, I think we both agree that in 2015 the team will have more talent than at any time since Logan's junior year, the year the wheels came off the bus. It's promising.
That reminds me......Any word on Ford joining the B-Ball team? Or does he have to wait until 2nd semester?
Unfair point, considering Brewer threw to a bunch of underclassmen who won't even be eligible to be drafted until after next season (Bucky, Rogers).
We didn't know for certain that Royal and Morgan would be NFL vets here in 2014 while they were still wearing our colors seven years ago. Just like how we don't know Ford, Phillips, and Hodges will still be playing on Sundays in 2021.
Fair enough, good point.
All good points, but personally I'd take Bucky any day, every day over Greg Boone, and I'd take a healthy (key word) Marshawn and Shai over Branden Ore, especially with Trey in the mix. You're right about the O-line no doubt.
Royal was completely under utilized imo. Hymen was a great surprise! I agree with you and am excited to see what Bradshaw and Holland do next season. Could be spectacular.
And while he's salivating he would get sacked by the free blitzer everyone except him saw coming.
my perception is that he had a habit of not stepping into throws, leading to accuracy issues. maybe that's because of the OL and backfield missing blocks and it took its toll. it doesn't seem like he's great with a deep ball either (rarely in stride allowing for RAC yards, especially TDs).
no doubt he's tough and has some good intangibles that you mentioned. i'm not so sure he should be the automatic starter, but if he wins it, then i think we'll be ok. i might just be jaded from the last few seasons, but i don't expect to see a drastic improvement from him.
We have two good OL recruits coming in and hopefully the veterans will get healthyou by next season. If so, I think that group should be much improved
Let's just say I'm buying my Horse in a Treadmill shirt right now.
Shane Beamer riding Stroman after his TD reminded me of it...
I'm always a little tipsy on the koolaid. We are going to kill it next year.
I'm not sold on Brewer, otherwise maybe...9 regular season wins or bust
Without question, 12-0!!!
psh, please. Try 15-0, bro
You misspelled 15-0.
To be fair, a "5" in either column is normally a bad season around here.
38-0 Bro
We will need better QB play. I think the OL will get better with the experience and a 2nd year with the same coach.
Im willing to bet that Brewer wont start another game for VT.
I'll take that bet. What's the stakes?
A Tots Rail, and a bitter winter in Chicago.
I'd take the bet as well. Personally I think you're being unnecessarily harsh toward a guy who put his body on the line every game and fought hard for this team. If Brewer doesn't transfer here, I seriously doubt we even make a bowl this year.
You can personally think whatever you want but you're wrong. I'm pulling for the VT QB as much as the next Hokie Fan, but a lot of you guys have a short memory when VT wins a game. We lost 5 games this year by one possession score. brewer consistently over threw WRs, missed open guys and lacked a strong pocket presence. ( O line was weak this year, I get it.) you can't win games if the QB is just missing open throws, sure give him another year with a Lefty and he should get better. all I'm saying is that IMHO I don't think Brewer is our Starter next year. Go Hokies
wow calm down trigger...
this is the most arrogant and degrading statement I've seen in a while....I thought I was reading the sabre for a minute. Cool your horses.
So your opinion is right and someone else's is wrong?
We're all talking conjecture based on absolutely nothing solid right now. A lot can (and hopefully, will) happen between now and next season.
And a lot of guys have long memories when the hokies lose or automatically assume the guy on the bench is better than the guy on the field. Brewer has his flaws, but all we can hope for is an open competition come spring and fall.
That same QB led late drives to give us a lead against OSU, ECU, GT and BC. Granted he then proceeded to screw the pooch against GT, but the fact remains that he kept us in late games with clutch drives.
A lot of those one possession losses were the result of the defense giving up late scores. You can argue the offense should have scored more, but you can also argue that the defense should have held. With the exception of the GT loss I think you're placing too much blame for our close losses on Brewer. The D's late game struggles contributes just as much.
We never had the lead against ECU. Should not have needed those clutch drives against a few of those teams if he hadn't been so awful prior to the end of regulation either.
Definitely agree Bud needs to tighten up at the end of the game, but most of those games should not have been within 1 score either.
Sorry my bad, Brewer led two fourth quarter TD drives against ECU to tie the game, not take the lead. Still one of his better performances.
And now you're dealing in full blown hyperbole calling Brewer awful. He finished with an efficiency rating of 117.4, averaged over 200 ypg and had two games where he threw more picks than TDs. He's a servicable game manager who brings a lot of intangibles to the huddle. He's far from awful.
He's pretty bad. Only 4 QBs worse in the conference and this is a very weak year for ACC QBs.
http://espn.go.com/college-football/conferences/statistics/player/_/stat...
Based upon their ratings. On other measurable, he was 6th in Completion %, 5th in Total Yards, 2nd in Attempts, 3rd in Completions, 6th in TDs, 2nd in INTs, 2nd in Sacks, and 9th in yards per attempt. So what does that all mean? He threw the ball A LOT. He hit our team more than the other team. Many passes were for short distances, but he still had a lot of completions. He had middle of the road stats for the most part, but he got hit way too many times. He's not nearly as bad as you seem to think, but most people only focus on the negative rather than the entire picture. While his errors may have led to some losses coupled with errors by other players, his ability also led us to some wins too.
None of those sacks were directly on his poor decision making though right? They were all on the OL...he's not a good QB and yes it's not all his fault by any means. Had the 2nd most turnovers and 2nd most sacks and one of the lowest YPA, but that makes him anything more than bad?
2nd most INTs on the 2nd most attempts is not a convincing argument that he's a bad QB. His INT to attempt ratio was not outside the league average.
Also consider TD:INT ratio.
Jameis Winston this year: 1.4
Michael Brewer this year: 1.2
So you are saying Brewer was snubbed for the Heisman?
I suppose that I can concede that Mariota was slightly better than Brewer this year.
Never did I say he wasn't at fault for getting sacked. When you get sacked 35 times, you have a fair number on him as well as the OL. The point is that everything goes together. You get hit a lot, so then you are likely to make some bad decisions to avoid getting hit again, leading to an INT. You throw a lot so you will end up with a lot of completions which lead to a lot of yards, but it also increases the risk of an INT because you threw it. Everything is connected. He is a mid-tier ACC quarterback. He's serviceable, but not awful like you seem to believe.
Awful is a subjective term. By my definition and watching every VT game this year i'd label him as awful. By yours you wouldn't. We just agree to disagree. He at one point was leading the country in INTs. Part of him being awful is that we have an inadequate OC and no speed on the perimeter. He probably would look much better with a different OC that knew how to attack vertically or even intermediate passes instead of screens for 70% of our passes.
This is all just a microcosm of the systemic offensive issues we've had for the last 3 years. You could say almost the exact same thing about LT3 from 2012-2013, because our offense was so inept that it was always putting the burden on LT3 to win the game. Either we won and he was a hero, or we lost and he was persona non grata.
agreed. we could probably have tom brady and he would look average in our offense.
Part of my issue is throwing around strong labels like "awful" without really producing the evidence to back the claim. It's one thing to agree to disagree on whether he's a "good" quarterback or an "average" quarterback. But "awful" is a significant claim that requires significant proof. None of Brewer's stats indicate what I think anyone could rationally ascribe the label "awful."
leading the country in ints anywhere past week 2 could lead to that label. Taking sacks where he almost turned and ran directly into the defender when he could have stepped up in the pocket and thus leading to his "2nd" worst sack total in the conference could lead to that label. Being the QB for a team that scored 0 points in regulation could lead to that label. There is plenty of evidence to suggest it. I'm pretty sure most non-hokie fans would label him as bad to awful I know I've seen it a few times, but they can be objective about it.
He also set the single season completion and attempt records for a VT QB, but did not break the yardage mark, which you would think would go along with those. Again it's not all on him I think any QB playing in our offense that isn't Houdini and can make something out of nothing (vick, TT, etc) are going to look bad for the most part.
You aren't convincing anyone when there are an equal number of examples to prove that he's not awful so it's probably about time to give it a rest. You especially don't help your argument when you undermine it saying that any QB would have been awful this year. That in itself says that it's not Brewer that's awful, but something more systemic about the team.
There are plenty of people convinced, but ok. I said any qb probably would have looked bad not awful and I've already made the statement you end with, but brewer certainly didn't help the situation with his play. Why do you think people are clamoring for Lawson to sign with VT, or for ford/durkin to develop in the offseason? Because brewer is not a good qb.
I think you're seeing a little too much black and white. I don't think anyone here is saying that Brewer is a good QB. I just don't think it's accurate to suggest he's an awful QB. It's a matter of perspective though. What you think is awful likely doesn't equal what other people view as awful. There is a significant difference between bad and awful. Most Hokie fans, and fans around the country, would probably agree that Brewer is not good. Many would probably go so far as to say he's bad. That, I think, is fair. But to say he's awful is just a gross overstatement. Just because he isn't good doesn't make him awful. There has to be some gray area and you just refuse to accept that there is anything other than black or white.
I think he's an awful qb from what I've seen this year with my own eyes in the current situation he's been thrust into with a poor OC and not a lot of true game breaking threats outside of Bucky, who was underutilized IMO. I agree there are other levels, some of which you have listed, but to me he was awful this year. Do I want you to believe he is awful? No I could care less but I posted my opinion on his play. I think with average QB play we'd have 2-3 more wins this year so anyone even thinking he was average to me is being a bit of a homer.
Again you are confusing the argument by saying he was awful and then describing things that are out of his control that contributed to the product.
There is subjectivity needed when using adjectives. Here are some synonyms for Awful: disgusting, horrible, terrible, dreadful, ghastly, nasty, vile, foul, revolting, repulsive, repugnant, odious, sickening, nauseating....
None of those adjectives describes the man that put his heart and soul into quarterbacking the hokies this season. My opinion is that he is average with way above average heart and determination. That is good enough to win in this league. describing him as awful is at least disrespectful, and in my opinion way over the top.
My issue is, awful is essentially a superlative. It implies not just a lack of ability but a lack of competence. Awful has no redeeming qualities. Throwing out a word like that requires some significant evidence, but as soon as the evidence provided was questioned and refuted, then it became a case of agree to disagree. That's not something that's really doable with awful. If you're saying he's bad, that's one thing. I can shake your hand and walk away thinking he's average while you say he's bad. But to throw out and accusation that he's awful and then to say you're entitled to your opinion and not trying to convince anyone else is intellectually suspect. It reeks of someone getting called to account for hyperbole and not being willing to concede the point.
Ok he was very bad IMO. I don't see the word awful meaning what you do, but I believe he is a below average qb in a weak division of the conference.
I've heard this underutilized thing before. With him and the other TE's breaking records for VT utilization of TE's and him being just under the utilization levels of other TE's in the country that were up for TE awards and Hodges being first year TE. I don't see it.
He relied on his size a lot and not on technique or skills for most of the year. I do expect he'll see more action next year with QB improvements and the increase in Hodges experience and skill level, but was about right this year.
He was underutilized in terms of being a vertical threat. he was our most dangerous vertical skill player this year and had what 2 passes caught over 40 yards. In the UVA game he had something like 2 catches for 6 yards prior to the big completion when we finally sent him vertical. I agree he's still pretty raw, relies on his athleticism more than route running etc but he was still our most dangerous threat on a consistent basis.
So we would've had a 9-10 win season with "average" quarterback play? And the people who think Brewer was average are homers? Ok.
did he watch the OSU game?? I'd love to see this guy who is calling brewer awful take 1 hit that brewer has taken just 1 and then lets see how he works out. I'm sure he would stand tall in a crumbling pocket and throw a perfect ball while getting crushed by a 6'3 290+lb dlineman
Did he see brewer basically separate his shoulder, have it put back in and the throw a beautiful deep ball to Hodges to set up the winning TD.
sometimes I just shake my head and move on but this pissed me off big-time.
Anyone who wants to come tackle me without pads on feel free. Will send my address.
Awesome.
I'm assuming you want to meet in Temecula?
No it's northern VA. Should be doable for most.
Hmm ... looks like I'd bounce off you and break something in the process. I'll pass.
Yup 205 lbs. People are all talk behind their computers.
I find the irony of this comment highly comical.
If you don't mind to pony up the cash to fly to Shanghai I would happily oblige tackling you.
Plenty of people live in nova. If people are that bothered about it that they insinuate I couldn't take a hit myself I have no problem proving that wrong. feel free to stop by any time.
Nothing to add here, I just love it when comments get this skinny.
the irony in this comment as pointed by another poster is epic!!
you insult a div 1 QB that puts his body on the line has an O-line made up of a dII dt, a freshmen(who also was a DE) and an injury ridden c/g and still ends up playing better than expected. Yeah he's not the best at deep throws might hold onto the ball but there's a reason he is still the starting QB..
Other than Mike Vick and JC (Jesus Christ) any QB in the nation would have just as many issues as brewer. Heck look at Jameis, he has an all star cast and still throws multiple INT's a game and get bailed out by his 5* RB's and beastly defense week in week out.
I admire his toughness I never said anything otherwise. I just said I don't think he's a good QB. One of the players you are trying to minimize did win the OL MVP award, so he must be doing fine there. I'm also not saying he's not our best option as I don't see them practicing everyday. I however did see him play every game this season and it was my opinion that he was an awful qb and then changed it to be a very bad qb to appease the masses.
trying to say any other qb would have just as many issues is ignorant. it's the same as saying no other oc could have done better with our talent. it's just an excuse to try to justify our below average offense. Jameis sucked this year too compared to the ceiling he has shown. I think he would admit he played well below his standards this year. I expect FSU to get boatraced by Oregon.
This is the skinniest post ever
You're right. I don't know if I have ever seen a comment this skinny. I am tempted to write something very long but I won't.
Look out, Ma, we got ourselves an Internet Tough Guy on the loose in here!
Good gravy, I'm impressed the comment space can get that skinny! How many levels down does it go?
At first I thought that was a bug, but then I realized it's a feature. When the argument goes that far sideways (literally and figuratively) there is less and less room for it. It would be cool if the type size diminished as the argument dragged on.
I'd love that. The smaller the text, the farther off topic we are. Sort of a 'nothing to see here' warning.
It just keeps on going, Joe installed a horizontal scroll bar ready to pop up when it happens. VTGuitarman and I broke it one time:
http://www.thekeyplay.com/content/2014/august/9/big-lu-best-quote-media-day
I had forgotten how out of hand that got. Anyone that actually stuck with us and read all those is either crazy, or awesome. Perhaps both.
I'm getting dizzy following your argument.
Any QB who takes a shutout is awful regardless of how he plays in the other 11 regular season games? That's myopic.
Taking escapable sacks makes a QB awful? How many? What's the threshold? And how about the fact that despite being the second most sacked QB in the conference he only lost five yards total in rushing. (Sacks are recorded as rushing attempts.) Doesn't that indicate that for all the sacks he took, he escaped others and turned it into a positive play?
He led the nation in INTs at some point past week 2? Why is week 2 the threshold? Because if we made it after week 6 Brewer wouldn't meet that threshold in your argument? He finished with more TDs than INTs and in line with what the better QBs in the league did in terms of picks: pass attempts.
And setting two single season passing records but not three makes a QB awful? Are you serious?
We wouldn't be having this discussion of you were saying he was an average quarterback, or not a great quarterback, or even not a very good quarterback. But you're maintaining that he's the Nickelback of QBs. "Awful" is not a subjective term. Awful is awful, and you've not done much to substantiate your claim.
2nd in INTs 2nd in sacks is pretty much all I need to say. Again you are arguing semantics. I think he is awful you don't, move on. You have nothing to "prove" he is even average. He was less than that and towards the bottom of 14 QBs listed in several key categories when it comes to Ws/Ls.
The problem with your argument is that you keep bouncing from "below average" to "awful". A below average starting qb at the FBS level does not meet the definition of "awful". He is definitely limited, but trying to defend the statement that any starting qb is "awful" is gonna be greeted with arguments.
If Brewer is as far down the talent scale as you say, and he is "awful", then that "awful" qb beat out everybody else on the roster with 3 weeks of preparation. So, what does that say for the rest?
it's not encouraging hence my hesitation to think we'll be that much better next year. Again it's my perception so there is no point in arguing that. I'm not trying to convince other people he is awful I listed why I think he is awful. if others think he is average, above average, etc. they are entitled to it.
Here's his QBR stats for each game:
http://espn.go.com/college-football/player/_/id/514481/michael-brewer
Here's his compiled season compared to the rest of the ACC:
http://espn.go.com/ncf/qbr/_/group/1
By this metric, Brewer was not good (maybe awful) against ECU, Pitt, Miami, Duke, WF, and Cinci. He was good against OSU and W&M. He was serviceable all other games.
Ugh. The QBR. The "Made For TV" stat.
You forgot UVa
Pocket presence? Seriously? What pocket did he have to be present in? Even when he did get a clean pocket, all those times of the OL or RB blowing assignments or whiffing on blocks and the pocket collapsing take a major toll. The "internal clock" everyone talks about gets quicker and quicker, and it becomes much tougher to trust your technique and set your feet. Brewer started bringing his eyes down quicker instead of going through his reads and trusting his progressions. Yes, there are a few throws he should have made, but come on, even Andrew Luck only completed about 72% of his passes (that's a C- in school, btw) - misses happen, even for the best of the best. His completion percentage (59%) was right about on par for a Hokie QB, and actually pretty impressive considering he was a first year starter behind a porous OL throwing to a bunch of freshmen. Loeffler has already said how excited he is to have a QB coming back for a 2nd consecutive year. Brewer will be the starter in 2015.
^^^^He's right, you know
I like Brewer and think he can improve...but come on. He was below average this year. He was "awful" in a handful of games, average in many of them, and very good in a few.
All in all, statistically, he was BELOW AVERAGE this year.
He still will probably be the starter, but he has alot to prove. I hope he proves it and steps up.
Everyone will stop complaining if he improves his play.
My point is that a lot of times his poor play wasn't on him. Hansen was beaten like a rented mule in pass protection since he came in and the line has struggled to pick up blitzes all year. Add in that he's throwing to freshmen who can't even get lined up right 100% of the time (so who knows if they're actually doing what they're supposed to be doing out there consistently - my guess is no), and we're not exactly painting the picture of the perfect situation for a first-year starting QB to walk into. Yes, he has to improve as a player. Yes, he made some poor decisions that likely cost us a couple of games. Which QB hasn't? My point is that we're going to see MUCH bigger improvements in QB play and the offense as a whole if the other 10 guys around him improve, rather than simply demanding he steps things up and continues to operate without a whole lot of help.
Assuming Loeffler is coming back as OC and QB coach, I'll bet Brewer will be the starter. We will not see improvement at the QB position in terms of a more talented athlete, but I expect we will see a marked improvement at QB performance. Brewer is not Michael Vick or Marcus Mariota, but he is good enough to play well if he is given a chance. If the O-line protects him on pass plays and makes holes on running plays, if the RBs establish a running threat and keep defenses a little off balance, and if the receivers run great routes and catch the ball, I think QB performance will be far superior in 2015 compared to 2014. It will be the same guy, same arm, same legs, same brain, but his stats will look completely different.
Bingo. He might improve a bit as a passer, but even if he did everything exactly the same next year as he did this year, but his supporting case improved, he'll look like a much better player. That's just the nature of the beast when you play QB at this level.
What is "below average?" Bottom 1/3 of FBS QBs? If so, that would mean that QBs 1-42 are Above Average, 43-85 are average, and 86 and up are below average. Here's how he stacks up according to the NCAA stats.
49th in Passing Yards (Average per definition above)
85th in Passing Efficiency/QBR (Average)
T51st in TDs (Average)
96th in Yds/attempt (Below Average)
53rd in Completion % (Average)
T10th in Interceptions (Below Average, reference, top 10 include, Devin Gardner, Jameis Winston, & Christian Hackenberg)
T13th in Sacks Taken
So what is the benchmark for what is average, above average, and below average? The eye test is not the answer. Clearly stats aren't either. Wins and losses don't lie solely on the QB, so what is the metric used to measure such a thing?
Who is gonna start next year? Ford? Motley? Durkin? A true freshman? Brewer has this spot and played better than any of these guys would have this year. Ford and Motley have had more practices at VT than Brewer and Brewer has already beat them out. Who will be #2 is the question.
There is a big learning curve for an incoming high school QB, to completely dismiss Ford and Durkin starting next season would seem to be foolish. Who's to say Motley wouldn't have beat out Brewer this season if he had managed to stay healthy during the fall camp? The QB competition is wide open
There is a big curve from HS, but one of these guys would have to be head and shoulders above the rest to beat out Brewer. That would be a good thing, but it wouldnt be expected at this point. I think there will be a 2 QB system of some kind. We have some good players and good athletes at this position and using more than one would help in this situation. Next season is not looked at as being a rebuilding season, thats why I say it will be tough for the staff to go with a player who hasnt started a game over a guy who has had a whole season. That just doesnt happen much. The competition is open, but there is definitely a favorite.
Regarding Ford, don't dismiss the possibility that Lefty was committed to redshirting him and was content to make do with the best of the remaining options. Ford in my mind is Lefty's guy. Everything out of Scot's mouth about the kid has been effusive praise. I think the biggest challenge to Brewer's starting job comes in the form of redshirt freshman A. Ford.
Agreed. Use of "effusive" gets a leg even if I didn't agree.
I'll take that bet
I think Brewer is the tough-as-nails leader that this team needs. Sure he's not Marcus Mariota or Jameis Winston (thank goodness) but he plays hard and fights every play and the players rally around that. He's going to be by far the most experienced Quarterback in Loeffler's system (if you can call it that) next year and I would be extremely surprised if he didn't start at least one game (barring injury). I know we're all excited about some of the younger guys (Ford and Durkin in particular) but you just can't trade the game experience that Brewer has for pure talent. The game moves quickly and that can't be replicated in practice no matter how hard you try. Brewer is the only QB we have who has a full season of experience at full game speed.
I believe that Ford or Durkin or both will get some snaps throughout the season to get them used to the speed of the game but I seriously doubt if either of those guys will supplant Brewer by September.
I agree with all of this, I think.
I'm on record (a lot) saying that I don't think Brewer should be the starter next year, with my rationale being that he isn't going to be the quarterback of the future and 2016 is looking to me to be an important year.
Having said that, Brewer is the only guy with any real experience. Ford and Durkin weren't in the game this year. Motley had class instead of practice for a while. There isn't anyone currently on the roster that is better than Brewer, and I believe that our next qb (post-Brewer) is currently on the roster.
I think I read a quote from Loeffler recently where he insinuated that he was excited to have a returning quarterback. The importance of having Brewer in the program and on the field is difficult to overstate. He's been in a couple systems on a couple teams in a couple conferences, has game experience, toughness, and some leadership skill. I don't expect him to take us to the promised land next year, but having him around is nothing but good. I expect him to be the starter next year, and I hope it turns out a bit better than this year.
I'd still jump on the bandwagon for a new quarterback if we were to play one of the other guys, though. But simply having Brewer on the team is good for us, and having Brewer starting for us isn't a bad thing.
Isaiah Ford is our QB next year. Who else has a 100% completion percentage?
I.... can't argue with this. We've been hyping up the wrong Ford at QB all this time.
Sam Rogers and #punterswag.
IIRC Hughes has the best QBR in the ACC.
I think it's a tie between him and I. Ford.
Nah, Ford has #PunterSwag beat on efficiency since he's got a much higher YPC.
Who was the last VT QB who was left-handed? Was he any good?
Nah, he was named after a car part.
There's a ball joint joke in there somewhere...I just KNOW there is! lol .
I will bet you two tickets to UVA's bowl game....
On another note, update your avatar.
We will improve to 2 nd in the coastal next year. We still need horses executing up front. If Duke J leaves early we might beat Miami.
According to his mother he is declaring for the draft!!
He really should. RBs have a short shelf life and he's likely going to get drafted in the first three rounds.
Great! Now the other Duke...
Look at what happened with DW & RMFW. Major injuries early in their NFL careers. If the injuries had happened in college they may not have gotten paid.
I've always said beamer gets the best out of the RBs. When they go pro, it goes downhill. Look at all the RBs we have had go pro. None have even decent length careers. They all seem to get hurt with career ending injuries or never return to form.
That's RB's in general, not just VT RB's. They average career length of RB's is the shortest of the NFL skill positions.
http://www.statista.com/statistics/240102/average-player-career-length-i...
Yeah but RBs from other schools at least hit average. Wilson played a year, RW he is still around but not playing. KJ had a shorter than average stint, Suggs like a year, even Oxendine was quick. Has there been a VT running back that had met or gone past the average?
I don't believe those statistics take into account if they play or not. It's if they were no a roster. DW was on the roster for what 3 years, RW has been 4, Kevin Jones 5? I'd agree they aren't staying healthy and definitely not backing up their high draft picks, but they've stayed in the league over the average.
KJ was in the NFL for 6 yrs (04-09), Suggs for 4 yrs (03-06), Ox for 2 yrs (98-99) and DW 2 yrs (12-13; career clearly ended due to injury, not talent) and RW 4 yrs. That makes an average of 3.6 years with 3 of the 5 going longer than the league average. Even if we average in DE's 2 seasons, we 3.3 seasons on average. Add in 0's for Ore, Imoh & Hume's and you get 2.2 yrs/player from what are basically VT's starting RB's of the past 12 seasons, who are no longer in college. Seems like we do better than most FBS programs.
The flaw there is we are taking into consideration how long these guys had a contract, not how long they actually played. Yeah, RW has been in it for 4 years, but has been injured for at least two seasons. So you can't compare that to another RB who has actually been playing those 4 years. If you took out the seasons they did not play, our average takes a nose dive.
That same flaw is embedded in the stats for average career length, so its precisely how one should calculate the metric. In the end, it definitely proves your contention, wrong.
More like VT dosen't get the best out of their RBs.
The ONLY reason Coleman is getting in form and lots of yards is because (someone) at Tech can't rotate him out of play.
Doak Walker Award Winner's at Tech - 0
Tech needs serious changes to offense operations
Hold on... wait just a minute, want to make sure I'm getting this straight here. You're saying that Tech needs to completely change its offensive approach/staff/whatever yet again because they haven't won the Doak Walker Award. So this year's staff is currently responsible for David Wilson or Ryan Williams not winning the award and therefore should be fired immediately?
Got it.
Haha. We need to go back and re-hire all the guys that were there when Jake Grove won the Remington Award! That'll get us going!
No I'd say in regards to lack of VT RBs in the NFL is due to lack of Award winners/finalist. I believe Wilson was a semifinalist
Now in regards to lack of running game overall has to do with coaching not keeping a player in all game. Aside from injury tech did not stick with a back all game
This year did anyone do that. In the last 6 games this year the rushing was split up so no one had over half the rushes each game
R Williams rushed an average of 23 times a game in 2009. To my point Coleman is getting close to those numbers due to injury
Coleman getting more carries probably helps him get in a groove, but he's definitely not built to take that kind of a pounding week in and week out, which I think was pretty evident towards the end of the UVA game. Did any one back really separate himself to the point where you'd feel good about giving him the majority of the carries this year? The coaches tried to do that with JC, but he didn't perform consistently. Marshawn and Shai still had a couple issues in pass pro and fully understanding the offense. Trey was hurt. Then, all the other guys started getting hurt. The middle of the season, the RB rotation was a microcosm of the offense as a whole: guys expected to be consistent contributors were hurt, and the coaches were forced to scramble and adjust on the fly to put a passable product on the field.
There's a whole lot more to the offense than just deciding who goes/stays in at RB. You may notice that Teller began starting halfway through the Pitt game, and our running game picked up almost immediately.
Is it possible to actually begin starting halfway through a game?
Just sayin...
You have to admit it is nice to see one back, regardless of who it is, getting the majority of the carries.
I guess I am old school, but I believe in the workhorse back carrying the load, with one back spelling him for a quick rest.
What is the outlook on Marshawn and Shai for next year?
Do you think they redshirt and we go with JC and Trey?
We seemed to do ok when splitting carries between Jones and Suggs... maybe the past few years it's more along the lines of - bad O line, and not exactly the best talent at RB we've ever had (healthy at least)
It could just as easily be said that JCC got all those carries because he was effective, not vice versa.. we never ran out of options to carry the ball - Rogers and Caleb were both healthy coming down the stretch, JCC finally ran well enough to earn the carries
Officially announced. Duke Johnson is going pro.
http://espn.go.com/nfl/draft2015/story/_/id/12087164/duke-johnson-leavin...
That was a complete VT win, loved it! I feel the biggest question mark for 2015 is our OLine, if it can be more serviceable, I expect good things the next few years.
Congrats on your finish of the 2014 season on a high note, Go Hokies!
I get that it's a win but the offense and defense was not good
there's nothing close to a complete win for the Hokies in that game.
The Defense gives up 489 yards (more than Cincinnati's offense Avg/Game)
The Offense only got 370 yards (less than Cincinnati's defense Avg/Game)
It's fine against AAC play teams but as the ACC gets further better than the Big East and the B1G becomes really good and the SEC continues to be great we have to keep up
Keep in mind we still have all the same issues we did throughout the year - injuries and a lack of talent at key positions on offense, no Maddy, a gimpy Williams, and no Facyson on defense. We had freshman Stroman and r-freshman Shegogg running around struggling just to get lined up at times yesterday. So no, it wasn't a dominant, statistical shellacking, but the kids stepped up and made some big plays when they had to and controlled the game for pretty much the whole second half. For where we are when it comes to talent, youth and injuries, this is about as good as it gets, and it was a fun one to watch. Happily for us, we won't be playing any SEC opponents next week, so let's just enjoy this one and see how the spring goes.
By the 9 minute mark in the 3rd quarter VT was up 3 scores... who cares how many more yards we get after that, the strategy at that point was to run the ball and shorten the game - and that strategy worked
And say what you want about the D, but until the game was no longer in question they had scored as many TDs as the Cincinnati offense... We forced Cincinnati to gamble on offense, and made the tackles on the back end enough to make Cincinnati have to gamble 3 or 4 times a drive to score, and they couldn't
Buzz kill. What possible good can come from criticizing a solid win to close the season? Try cheering instead of grumbling, its a lot more fun.
In 2010 I bought the whole hype train
But 2010 is what I don't want to see VT become/stay as
I was hyped up for Fedex Field, and Boise St
Opening at home and JMU was a weird game
Moving up the ranking was great, (higher! higher!)
Ridding the train to FSU game at Charlotte to win the ACC
Topping out at #5 I felt VT was disrespected
And then the Orange Bowl
All of the nation saw us and continued to say we had been over ranked and now back it up, besides one amazing Tyrod play
We had won an easy ACC but couldn't beat any other Top ranked team
We didn't build on all that hype with a Top recruiting class
Going in to 2011 I was again Hype. I ignored all the small details, no clue about recruiting or stats of how VT did back in 2010 or in the Orange Bowl, The Clemson games and the miracle to send us to NOLA. we didnt build on 2011 ignored all the small details, no clue about recruiting or stats of how VT did and VT didn't change and it led to 2012 ,2013, 2014
So as to Buzz Kill....
Yea we need a Buzz Kill. We need to understand that we are winning in games that we should but we need something to change to win games a Top ACC team should win
Yea it was a fun win but winning against an AAC team while giving up 500 yards of offense and not getting 300 yards ourselves doesn't lead to wins against Ranked Teams
It was a win and we can all enjoy that but a solid win isn't where their defense holds your offense below there own avg or where their offense has an above avg day s
against your top ranked defense. Where the best 3rd down Defense went 7-15 on 3rd down conversions isn't solid
I want a buzz kill because I want us to learn and move up, not be excited for a Bowl win against an AAC team
don't most fans get on the Hype Train every year? Hell, even the 5 lolUVA fans get hyped every year...
point is, sure you got let down before but this is freaking sports man. Not life and death. IMO, get hyped for your team every year because you love them. Even if we aren't as good as we expect it can still be a great year to watch VT football. Isn't that what we are all after? yeah, sure we want to win championships but none of us are literally going to win it ourselves. That's for players and coaches. We just get to vicariously enjoy that through them. So get hyped man. Get hyped every year. Why not? The alternative is just being mad or sad all the time and why do that to yourself. You're not even playing.
I used to get obscenely pissed off while playing golf. Shank it and at least 10 phucks were given. But then I mellowed out, it's just a game. I'm not a PGA golfer making money off it. I'm just a duffer that wants to go have some fun. Now I play well sometimes and I play lousy sometimes, but I always have a great time. And I'm eager to go out again... so hype it up dude.
I want the school to give me a reason to get hype. The Number One thing the school could do is emploeyye BillDozier (sorry for any misspellings) to make official promo/hype videos. A change in operation right there would show a change in attitude towards expecting fans to show up and hyping fans to show up
It's the lack the school is giving that has me lacking being hyped up for.
I think there has been a significant upgrade in media quality this year, as well as outreach to fans via social media. The videos and such don't have the slick look of stuff from BillDozer and mstrawther, but they're well done. For instance, I just saw this - Frank couldn't speak to the team before the bowl game, so the media guys put this together:
I'd say that's a pretty good effort to hype the team up.
I also have to say that the media crew this season has absolutely killed it. Maybe it's Whit's influence, but I've seen some spectacular videos and fan engagement strategies through the school's media.
This is a serious question. Are you even enjoying it anymore? It doesn't sound like it from your posts here.
Not that there's anything wrong with NOT enjoying it, I'm just curious.
That Stanford team was just on another level than most teams in the nation. Plus I don't think we got to number 5 in the nation, that was in 2011.
I'd agree that it isn't a 'complete' win, but it does remind me of the days back when we'd go for 217 yards and 10 points on offense only to still win 33-17, which might not make it a complete win but it sure does make it a Hokie win
Someone is feeling negative....
We won the game 33-17.
We had a lot of injuries and many key players missing.
The majority of the defense is back. Jarrett and Bonner played solid, but honestly, probably not as good as we had hoped for this year for two senior safeties.
If Facyson is back to form, Chuck Clark can probably move to safety, where he might be better suited.
Motuapuaka should improve and and we will have Maddy/Dadi wreaking havoc in the backfield.
I think Deon Clark will continue to improve, as will Ekanem.
Offensively, the line should improve, as Teller and Conte get more experience.
J Glock should be back healthy and there should be some nice spring competition at several of the spots.
The backfield is solid, even if Marshawn and Shai aren't ready. JC showed he has some game, proving many of us wrong. If Trey can stay healthy, he gives a solid 1-2 punch at RB.
The WR's should be the strength of the offense. Phillips, Ford, and Hodges are legitimate weapons. I can't wait to see what they become in the next few years.
No matter who the QB is, we still need much improved QB play to take it to the next level.
But allowed about 1/2 the points they got per game all year.
Foster, in his post game, told us the goal was bend not break with this explosive offense team.
Points count, yards is just a statistic when you don't care about them, as Foster stated.
3 turnovers and 6 points. No, the defense was excellent.
And the special teams was outstanding.
I have not looked up the stat but, they did not give crap for punt returns and got some serious yards in the air. significntly won the field position battle as displayed in the yards per point display.
VT FG kicker got 2 personal bests and did not miss a shot.
VT got 202 yards rushing,
the Chick Filet logo Team won their Division IIRC.
this was a quality win.
Change "won their division" to "AAC co-champ" and you nailed it.
Edited to get conf right
Thought I was the only one to see Chick-Fil A there.
If the offense continues to run the damn ball like they did at the end of the year, absolutely. If they stop running and get enamored with bubble screens and deep passes Brewer can't hit? Not so much.
15-0 next year
Either way, next season will be fun. Looking back on this past season, there were good times and bad times, but it was an awesome ride.
I'm excited but can we raid some Jucos for some O-linemen? What happened to UAB's line?
Just got done listening to coach Bud's post game interview on the radio. All the naysayers need to listen to that and realize that being a Hokie is much bigger than wins and losses! Proud to be hokie today! Looking forward to next season and doing it the right way!
Bud's got me all bleary-eyed...
Where in the hell did all these chopped onions come from suddenly???
yea was pretty cool moment I was saying in the game thread that if you didn't realize just how special a position this program is in, after hearing that, you never will. Love this place
Is this online anywhere or can anyone recap for me? I'm stuck at work and had to watch on my iPad put missed all post game stuff.
Bill and Mikey just said you can "log on and listen to it" but I'm not exactly sure where...
https://soundcloud.com/img-audio/virginia-tech-img-bud-foster-post-game-...
Wow, awesome is the only word for that.
Thank you for posting. Proud to be a Hokie. It is something that is truly special and we are all fortunate to be part of it. Can't wait for next season!
Wow. That last 20 seconds hit me like Dadi Nicolas from the blind side. God I love Bud.
Chase Williams and Derrick Di Nardo are also gone from the defense, but Motuapuaka and RVD should compensate, I hope Dwayne Lawson commits and can compete next year, D and special teams will be solid, O will be good but will the O-line be good? They should be better, and the QB be it Brewer or Motley will at least have experience...
I expect dramatic improvements unless we get another ridiculous string of injuries. If healthy every unit should be better next year. Maddy, Marshall, Ekannibal and Dadi coming back with added depth will make a good line great. Motouapouaka and Clark will be more mature and sound. Fuller, Clark, Stroman, and Fayson will be solid at corner. I expect Reavis and Fisher to play well at safety and if they struggle there are other options on the depth chart.
On offense, the line, recievers, and tight ends will improve with another offseason of workouts. Kline, Edmunds, and Wright will be back from injuries. Every position will have quality depth and we will see 4 quality quarterbacks compete for the job.
A healthy team next year will be incredibly dangerous (with or without Williams and McKenzie). I don't think we run the table but meeting FSU with one or two losses is very realistic.
2015 can be special with improved o-line and QB play and if the injury gods are appeased with all the sacrifices they have taken in the 2014 season.
QB play and OL needs to get better, they have a chance to be special on defense. Put me down as a homer!
QB play isn't uncorrelated with OL play. Having your QB get pounded on every pass would have to be more than a little "distracting" for the QB.
My expectation is that we win at least 9 games and are at least in the coastal hunt until the last week of the season. We lost a few games this year that we had no business losing and with more experience, I don't think we take those losses next year. I'm not on a hype train, but I am on the "this team is getting better and will continue to improve" train.
D-line depth?
I think we will be fine unless there is a major injury:
DE: Dadi, Ekanem, Dooley, Alford, Keihn*, Hill, Gaines, Fullwood*, Mihota*, Burke*
DT: Maddy, Marshall, Williams, Baron, Walker, Mihota*, Sobsczak, Lewis, Whitehead, Fullwood*
Asterisks indicate players that could play other positions. Mihota and Fullwood could play both positions, Keihn at backer, Burke at Tight End.
Ideally Whitehead, Lewis, Gaines, Burke, and Fullwood red shirt with Hill only playing if one of the starters go down for the season. That's 6 deep at end and tackle.
I don't necessarily agree with your assessment. To me, there's a difference between having a proven, serviceable player as a backup and just having another body to plug in. We have plenty of names written on the depth chart, but are they going to actually be able to provide solid minutes? DT looks pretty good with Maddy, Marshall, Williams (great game yesterday) being proven, but DE is pretty thin. Most of the guys you have listed will be freshmen, possibly moving to or from a different position, or guys like Dooley and Alford that receive spot duty at best. Doesn't scream depth to me.
Obviously guys can step up in the off-season and improve dramatically, but I don't automatically equate numbers to depth. If that's the case, we have depth at every position (and we know that's not the case.)
I agree that the reserves at end are unproven but having bodies is a step in the right direction. There were only 4 bodies at end this year. At tackle Walker played well for a freshman and Baron was solid when healthy. We may not have an elite unit that is 4 deep with playmakers at every position but we lose nothing and gain some solid players. The line as a whole should be better.
Aren't you forgetting Ricky Walker?
He's right there between Baron and Mihota, unless we have two Walkers.
After that complete win (even special teams looked phenomenal, what?) ...it's hard to not be excited about next year. But I'm not sold, God bless Brewer for what he did and had to endure, but I'd like another qb under center. Also, I'd like to see some o-line improvement and continued run success.
Defensively we should be fine
If the offense is efficient and takes care if the ball, this is a 10+ win team.
Agreed. I have no doubt about Michael Brewer's toughness, but he clearly has a limited upside. If he manages the game well and the defense plays well, they will win a bunch of games, BUT the margin for error will always be small.
Folks have mentioned offensive line. So much there depends on Jonathan McLaughlin's recovery and then his opposite at tackle, and then identifying the next center. Hansen again showed that he is a good run blocker, but struggled against Hartsfield in pass pro. Center is so critical from a communication standpoint that turning it over to Eric Gallo (unheralded and untested) or David Chung is nerve wracking.
Defensively so much rides on the secondary. Stroman looked good in coverage yesterday, but got lost a couple of times against motions and looked confused. Bud wants Clark at whip-nickel but he also needs to trust his safeties. Anthony Sheggog looks like he may be next in line at the rover spot. Greene will likely be the starter at free safety, but I bet CJ Reavis makes it tough for the coaches to not play him because of his coverage ability. Facyson has to fully recover (and Maddy) and I am worried about that given the difficulties that many Hokies have had returning 100% from injury.
Two years ago, Alston Smith was the talk of camp. Yesterday, they move Conte back inside to play Hansen instead of just inserting Smith. Too bad. He's got center size, I wouldn't mind him getting a shot there. I share your concern over Gallo/Chung.
We also need a spring read on Pfaff, Mitchell and Osterloh.
I also expect Durkin and his strong arm to displace Motley as the mobile QB this spring. doubt Durkin is any more inaccurate than motley, and he's got a gun. Or maybe Motley to WR or Durkin to Fb/HB?
When Wang went out, why do you think they moved Conte inside and put Hansen at Tackle? To me it should have been the opposite. Any insight?
I agree - with a little OL development and better health at RB, we could make a good run next year.
Experienced youth could lead to success the next few years.
I'm fully dipped in dork magic, that's all I got to say
Thank you, thank you very much.
Buy.
Get through OSU and stay healthy, then yes.
After hearing Foster's interview, I have to admit I am a little more concerned about Frank's health. He was very emotional, hope it was just the game that was making him feel this way. I am sure he has great respect for Beamer.
I wouldnt be surprised if it was more along the lines of being proud everyone stepped up and showed what HC Beamer does for them. They did not want to disappoint him when he wasnt able to be there for the practices due to the surgery as well as knowing CFB has come under fire recently.
This along with how CBF was just given a contract extension that shows we WANT him around hokienation for a long time coming.
This was a good win for the program because of how the season went and how the build up to the game went.
Bud's breakdown in the interview when Frank came up, combined with the facts the surgery couldn't wait until after the bowl game, and they stated several follow-up treatments would be needed, left me with an uneasy feeling as well.
Yeesh, good point. Well, now I've got something else to worry about.
Expectations are a mean bitch. I will enjoy every single game and hope for the best.
I'll believe it when I see it.
Gut reactions. No room or rational thought when it comes to hype.
TBD
It hinges on OL play and what we can get from our QB. At this point I'm not sure Brewer is the guy going forward, and I wouldn't be shocked if Durkin or Motley starts going forward. Also hinges on how healthy we can stay at RB. If we have to go with a 5th stringer again, things won't be good.
Defensively, we're set and I like what I saw out of Slye today. Think we found our kicker for the future.
Ford
Yeah, the guys stepped up in pressure.
Beat his best yardage twice in a close score bowl game twice.
Good job. Beamer apparently made the correct choice in getting him a year's Gentrification and experience.
The running game will improve next year, with some RB's coming back healthy and the Oline continuing to improve their run blocking.
The offenses ceiling is determined by whether or not the QB finds a way to start completing some passes down the field. Tech has left a lot of long completions on the field this year, and if the offense is going to take the next step that Loeffler is expecting than they need those explosive plays. Brewer hasn't been as accurate throwing the ball vertically as I thought he looked on the limited Texas Tech tape we had.
The defense should be spectacular. The Safety situation needs to be resolved but I really like the young guys who are ready to fill in. AM at Mike is going to have a big year, if he hits the weight room hard he could be a real force out there. Already has exceptional instincts. Dline may be best in the ACC.
Bonner is leaving, but considering he was the one getting burnt badly in a vast majority of those big plays this year, I'm not so sure that's too much of a bad thing.
All in all, he's been a really solid player for us but he is replaceable.
Bonner's value was in getting everyone in the right place to do their job. We will notice his absence next year.
Honestly, the amount of trash that some fans talk about Bonner is ridiculous. And misinformed.
He has often been asked to play in single coverage because Foster likes to load the box. Of all the defenders in single coverage, the safety (not the corners) are more likely to get beat. What a shock.
You think some upcoming freshmen is going to come in and do a better job than Bonner right off the bat? Please. You know what... those freshmen might not get "burnt badly" as "often" as Bonner was, because Foster probably will see in practice that they aren't the players that Bonner is and won't trust them enough to put them in those situations as often. I'd take Bonner over anyone else on the roster at his position. So would Foster. He did all year. And the year before.
To say that the defense will be better off without Bonner (or to trash on Bonner the day of his last game as a Hokie) is short sigted.
You forgot to mention that Bonnet can't hit. He was by far the worst tackler on VTs defense the last several years. His missed tackles as the free hitter have given up countless long runs and TDs. His replacement will be a physical upgrade. Coverage is TBD.
Jarrett was on more out of place tackling busts than Bonner
I remember many times when 3x pro bowler Kam chancellor would "appear" burnt as well. Foster most certainly asks a lot from his safeties. I will miss Mr. Bonner
His only downfall was man coverage, but as you said, he was a safety who was frequently asked to play in man coverage. As a zone defender and run supporter, he was one of our better defenders.
I will say that I have noticed Reavis has been a beast at tackling on special teams and has made many major plays. Hopefully he makes strides in the offseason
Potentially yes. Need a few things to align mainly injuries and O line. D should be loaded and same for skill positions on O.
Have to comment on some of the posts about needing a new QB. Not sure what many of you expect. Brewer had his ups and downs for sure but for goodness sake he has only been in Bburg for 6 months. The O line has been declining for 4 years and is finally turning around but lost Shuman, Benedict and eventually McLaughlin. The leading 3 receivers were freshman and he spent half the year running for his life. With continued growth on the line and 1 FULL year in the offseason I will take him in a heartbeat. I think some of the folks on here would complain if Peyton a manning was our QB.
Go Hokies looking forward to the future, especially after today!
Cannot hold the ball got 3-4 seconds. That being said I liked that he finally pulled it down and ran for positive yardage. Just slide!
Have to disagree with you. I would be happy with Peyton Manning at QB.
Agree if we have his o line. Unless you count the scramble time, you can't hold the ball 3-4 seconds with pressure in our current offensive state. Would love it if the protection was there to do it but that is not our current reality.
Gut reaction--no. If Williams and/or McKenzie hadn't torn their ACLs I would be 100%. I don't know how quickly they can make it back but they were a huge reason I was riding the 2015 hypetrain at the beginning of this year. If we hadn't missed on some of those recruits, like 3-5 guys, the past few years then I would be saying 15-0 National Champs book your rooms now. But I am excited for my senior year.
However, to be somewhat of a Debbie Downer, 2015 is the season where if they continue to be mediocre Beamer is really going to be on the hot seat. I haven't called for his head this season, but if he can't bring us back next year I will.
Williams and McKenzie definitely seem to be special talents and will carry the load when they come back very well, but to discount JC after what he accomplished the last several weeks of the season is frustrating. He showed more consistency than either Williams or McKenzie did when they were at their best. There has been a lot of discussion as to whether JC can withstand the beating of being an every down back, yet I do not recall him coming out for injuries in any of the last few games where he rushed for 95, 98, 118, and 157. In the interest of full disclosure, I've been pro JC since his first carry his Freshman year and am beyond ecstatic to see what he has done since he was fully given the chance.
Jcc is definitely running more without fear in the last few games. Not sure what made him change. Early this season and even last year, he ran with a gingerness. Kind of crumpled into a defender rather than run through a defender. I think i raff that he and lil Beamer had a talk, so maybe that made him realize he is stacked and to run through people.
Excellent point and leg for you sir. I am one that had been frustrated with Coleman's vision and acceleration through the hole but want to compliment this young man for his perseverance and commitment to excellence. I want him to have the best senior season ever!
I'm jumping in with both feet. I've felt from week one of this year that we are sooooo close. The next two years are going to be special!
Janurary 2016 trip to Glendale, AZ. Can't wait!
Its all about the oline, if we can get a group that can establish both solid run and pass blocking; the sky is the limit. Especially pass blocking, to open up lanes for Brewer or any other QB to see through. If not we are still improved but around the 8 to 9 win season pushing double digits.
Im on board as long as defense plays like it did today and o-line continues to grow and develop.
also.... kind of OT but I don't know if any of you saw Bud's post game interview and it was one of the more emotional interviews he has had. I am hearing from #SOURCES that it is to believe Bud was emotional because he knows the fate of Beamer.
Bud has always known. How Gould he not. That said, I don't believe CFB isn't coming back next year unless there is a major health issue. Nothing to see here...now.
He might know, but I'm sure it wouldn't hit him until the last game, as imo seen in his interview
As stated, it's all about the offensive line. That is the key area of the team. Who can play right tackle effectively (assuming J Mac returns to the left side)? And who can play center?
So French wrote the key to win this game was to "hit" Kiel. How prophetic was that statement? Now after reading all of these posts wanting to see another QB under center next year, I simply ask you if Brewer would have left the game today if he was the QB at Cincy' ?
I'm on my third dork magic and coke
9 wins next year and I'm rooting for Brewer to win the starting position next year despite very stiff competition Go Hokies
Long time to go between then and now. One thing I will say, the offense made adjustments during the second half. started running wide and Coleman was gashing them AND holding onto the rock. We started throwing to Bucky more, which is always a smart play. Our offense limited the penalties. So I'd say "Where was this team against Wake" before I purchase my ticket for the 2015 bandwagon
Sell. Offense tends to start from square one every year. OL still a major question mark. Offense still has problems executing the passing game (if UC can do it we can).
Gut Reaction: It depends who is under center. I love Brewer's heart, and we owe him a lot this season, but I am really hoping he is unquestionably out talented by some new QB. We have seen this guy hit his ceiling and it is D1 low. Really love his heart though, and he is as tough as nails.
Also my gut with Wang was, "I hope they don't pull some freshman's redshirt. I am really going to be looking at O Line in the spring. I am hoping some of these unknown OL players will stand out. Cincinnati's OLine was really good. Dadi had more trouble than we are used to seeing (at least in pass coverage). A team can do a lot of things with a OLine like that.
Conclusion: If we get a new QB and Oline (let face it, we really aren't going to miss any of the seniors on Oline) I think that this offense could be really good.
QB isn't going to be the make-or-break position this year, and I'd be fairly surprised if it was anyone but Brewer next September. If that OL starts coming together, he's gonna look a whoooole lot better. Only so much you can expect from a QB when he's on his back every single time he drops to throw.
I would like to see faster more elusive runner at the least. there are taller players with stronger arms too. But like I said, Brewer has heart.
You could argue that QB is always make-or-break, on just about every team, every year.
Its just such an important position. Brewer really hurt us early in the year when he was throwing 2 or 3 picks every game.
The stronger argument is the guys around him. Look at Jameis Winston. Last year, with NFL talent at literally every position around him, he wins the Heisman. This year, he leads the nation in interceptions. The difference: those same poor decisions he made last year, which resulted in receivers like Benjamin going up and bailing him out and making him look awesome on SportsCenter, are resulting in turnovers. He's the exact same QB he was a year ago - good athleticism, good arm, can make good decisions occasionally, but not as developed of a passer as everyone seems to think he is.
Anyways, back to my point. The QB position is only "important" because the guy touches the ball on every play. It's easy to look at stats and say a QB won or lost a game (for the record, I think people talking about career wins for a QB, or comparing legendary QBs based on who does or does not "have a ring" is one of the dumbest things in the history of mankind), but there are 11 guys out there who need to do their jobs. Yes, the QB needs to make the right checks and the correct decisions of where to go with the ball. However, if those other 10 guys around him start doing their jobs better and more consistently, that same QB will look a whole heck of a lot better.
I've said it for a while, 2016 is the year. Next year i think we get 9 wins or more. Lot of close ones this year that could have gone our way. Next year i think more do.
I think we will have a downy qb next year too.
2016 gives all the pieces time to truly come together, next year is to early. O line, qb, rb, and D will be nasty by 2016.
If we can make it next year, then i would expect nothing less than a repeat for 2015.
I think both 2015 and 2016 are years where we will be 9+ win teams. However, we are losing a lot on defense after 2015. Bud always reloads, but losing Kendall Fuller (to the draft), Maddy, Dadi, Marshall, and Deon Clarke will be significant. All of those guys are potential all-ACC guys next year. The defense will still be above average in 2016, but I think that 2015 group has a chance to be one of the greatest in team history and maybe the 2nd greatest ever (after 1999) if the situation at safety works itself out and we stay healthy.
I think 2015 has a slightly higher ceiling. Both are shaping up to be potentially great years. I honestly still think beating FSU in the ACC-CG will be a tall task but fully expect that we will be nationally relevant again.
Loved the way the offense really put together complete games the final two we played. Granted neither UVa or Cinci were stellar opponents, but I agree it all boils down to the offensive line, especially the pass blocking. For as well as the offense played today, the pass blocking was still pretty bad I thought. Brewer was still taking a lot of hits, some his fault, but a lot were because of how quickly that pocket collapsed. I like the direction this team is going and think we have a real shot at being good next year, especially with all the talent we have on offense. I would guess our biggest question mark right now (aside from o line) will be the QB position and the DBs who will be filling in for Jarrett and Bonner. I have complete trust that Bud and Coach Gray will figure that one out with relative ease. The QB situation is a toss-up, but I'd be pretty surprised, not shocked, but surprised if Brewer is our starting QB next year. The o line has to get better if we want any real shot at the Coastal because despite how many injuries we had this year, that was and will continue to keep you from becoming elite. I have faith in the fact that even on a pretty bad year, 7-6 was the record we lived with. With this much talent returning to Blacksburg, I just can't really imagine a scenario where we are worse than we were this year, barring any major injuries.
The offense didn't play well, but they didn't suck. The running game was good but the passing game was mediocre - in large part due to the OL. The O scored six times but four scores were FGs.
True, though at this point I consider it a decent day offensively if we score a TD through the air. The drive that ended in Malleck's TD felt like a FG the whole way through.
I dunno, I have a hard time pinning too much of the blame for stalled drives yesterday on the oLine. OK, yes they did struggle and there were times where they were absolutely abused off the snap, but I thought for the most part that yesterday seemed to be one of their better efforts. The problem is, time and time again Brewer seemed to get deer in headlights when he saw a free Blitzer coming, which happened frequently, as there was rarely a check down from the LOS pregnant to keep a RB back to block. When they brought the extra guy, we never adjusted and Brewer left himself on an island, and he just doesn't have the pocket presence to avoid the rush.
With the season of abuse Brewer has had, I honestly think he's shell shocked. He sees a blitzer coming free and has a bad flashback.
My question is what the hell happened to the check downs in the flat that were a staple the first half of the season? Did Lefty eliminate that route or is Michael not dumping it off short like he did early on? I'd hate to think we eliminated the check down from the passing tree, since it was one of the immediate schematic improvements I saw with Lefty's hire.
Look...I like Brewer. I had really high hopes for him this year, especially after the Ohio State game. I know he is tough as nails and has alot of heart. I know he is a leader. I know his teammates like him. I know the offensive line wasn't great.....but we seem to making a lot of excuses for him also.
If he earns the starting job next year, then so be it, but you can only make so many excuses. He didn't have good pass protection, I admit, but he also made A LOT of unforced errors and threw some REALLY BAD interceptions at critical times, that cost us some games.
I think Brewer would admit that himself.
If he is the starter, I expect him to step it up in year 2 and be much more efficient and to greatly reduce the number of interceptions.
We did see improvement on the number of picks in the 2nd half of the season, but the offense was just pretty weak this year. If you play QB, you have to take responsibility, no matter what. It is one of the responsibilities of the job.
He is not the only QB in the country that gets pressured...
By your own admission, he had pass rushers & blitzers coming with a free shot. How is that NOT on the OL? Rushing yards in the 1st half were hard to get. Whgar ever adjustments were made at half time opened up the run game, then we saw a big change in pass pro, since the DL coldnt just pin the eares back and rush the passer. All of it starts with the OL.
Recognizing the blitz pre snap and adjusting the protection and audibling into something that brings someone else behind center to pick up a free blitzer is the responsibility of the Quarterback pre snap. Yes, its on the OL to win their matchups, but when there are only 5 on the OL and the defense is showing 7 at the LOS, there needs to be an adjustment made to have someone picking up that extra guy when the ball is snapped.
Far too often in that game Cinci would blitz an extra guy than we could block and it was as of Brewer didn't even have a clue it was coming. The delayed blitz beat us all game long and we never really adjusted to beat it. Glad it didn't cost us the game, but that situation needs to be addressed in the off season.
Honestly that problem is one I expected going into this season regardless of the starter. This is something a first year starter at QB seems to miss a lot. I'd expect Brewer to do a better job of this next season.
This is a 4th year college player though not a freshmen/r-fr. He's also been pegged as the starter before at another FBS program so he's gone through this before.
By that logic, Mark Leal should have won us a bowl last year.
I've never played the game personally so I might be full of it, but seems to me that things are a lot different once you get into a real live game.
Being pegged as a starter does not mean anything if you never play a game. Leal was here for 4 years, why wasn't he a stud? Experience is very valuable and you don't get it unless you're facing an opponent snap after snap.
Yeah but Brewer has had multiple years of collegiate film study and practice time to learn this and he looked like a kid right out of high school in this regard this year. This isn't a kid who has just one year under his belt, he is someone who legitimately has one year of eligibility left. If he doesn't show significant improvement in this phase in the spring, I really hope they do a serious hard look at who should be the starter going forward.
The 2015 QB race needs to be wide open and all 4 of Brewer, Motley, Ford and Durkin need to be given equal opportunity to earn the starter role.
I agree with you last statement.
What is the center's role for blitz pickups?
I mean everybody's said it already, so I guess I'll just repeat them. Our team will only go as far as the o-line is willing to take us. If they make huge improvements in the off season, the sky's the limit.
I honestly don't know what to think about Brewer. I don't know how good a QB he really is because the line hasn't given us a chance to see. Who knows who the starter will be at QB? I just hope he's ready to play with great talent around him.
Two tickets for the hype train, please.
HYPE HYPE HYPE
Tonight you can call me The Bourbon of DeChristopher. Or Evan for short.
JCC seemed to be heading in the right direction, hypemeter tells me he has true hoss potential for next year. If he does become a hoss, that bodes well for the team and Marshawn & Shai while they get all the way back to 100%. Apart from that, O line. Just O line, baby. I know the offseason machine will get me all excited and thinking this team will contend for the big one. But right now I'm sit back and enjoying this.
I'm on board.
We will live and die by o line play
Need an upgraded play at QB. Brewer was break even this year...gives up as much as he gets. QBR was 101 of 129 going into the bowl game. Brewer can probably game manage us to respectability...9 or perhaps 10 wins. But we need a playmaker at QB if we want to be serious about competing for a conference title or more. Look at the QBRs and yards per play stats of the final 4 teams (and go back and look at our stats from 1999). We are not in the same solar system with that kind of productivity right now.
If we can run the ball next year like we did the second half, were going to be a tough team. Now, with that said I will try my best to temper my expectations until I see the product on the field.
There is reason for optimism there. Searels finally has some of his guys, and the fact that Stacy likes his linemen to play heavy should lend itself to the run. JCC has finally arrived and there are reinforcements on the way even if Shai and Juice can't go. For once it feels like the talk about reestablishing the run isn't just blather.
Yeah your right. Im excited to see what Searles can do when he finally has his guys in there.
To me buying the hype means 10 wins and ACCCG. Was at the game and my big takeaway is that Brewer is not the guy. I love the kid and yes our online is terrible but I'm not sure he'll be the guy even with a line. It was so much more clear in person. His arm is weak, vision/reads aren't great, and he just locks on rushers and scrambles too soon. Doesn't mean we won't win 8 games with him and still play in ACCCG, but he's not the guy to return this team to 10 wins.
Buying. "Adversity" is one of those sports cliches that gets bandied about all the time, but it's hard to argue that this team didn't suffer through it. To have a young team go through the shitshow at Wake and win their next two games while looking excited and happy to be there? Credit the coaches a ton, but the team even more for buying in. Those kids are coming back and I can't imagine we'd see a drop off in that attitude.
I'm hyped for 2015. I think we can certainly return to conference contention. The prevailing view coming into 2014 was that if Brewer can manage the game (didn't need to be outstanding) and our talented freshmen could live up to the hype, we'd easily see 9-10 wins. Well, injuries will derail that, as will bad OL play. The freshmen did show us how good they could be, but we lost some to injury. If we stay healthy, there is no reason to doubt that having the same guy coach OL for two straight offseasons will help and we will begin to see VT return to prominence. I fully expect to be in the thick of the conference race next year. I'm not sure about National Championship aspirations (that's a big leap from a 7-6 year), but consistent coaching and good health could be just what we need to start returning Lane to Terrordome status. Next year's schedule sets up pretty well, too. I know we said that this year, but still...
I'm onboard for an improved season. Brewer and all.
Guys, this was his first year starting, and he did it with an awful OL and freshman play makers. I think he starts in 2015 and I think he does what we need him to do, especially if he's provided better protection. We know Bucky, Ford, Phillips, etc. are all going to improve after having a year under their belt, I believe Brewer will too.
Do I think we're going to shock the nation next year? Probably not. But I could see 9-10 wins.
I am buying 8-9 wins with tempered expectations. We will have at least one maybe 2 redshirt freshmen on the oline. I am excited to see what kind of leadership and work Zbrewer puts in this offseason to get better. Don't see any blowouts a la Miami.
I know this post is about '15, but I would like to take a sec to congratulate the '14 team. The year didn't go as well as we would have liked, but we were in every game to the last minutes except one. When things got down, there was absolutely no quit in this team. For that reason alone, there is reason for optimism going forward.
For all the injuries/inexperience we had it took all of those factors to make it possible for teams like GA Tech, BC, PITT, WF, and ECU to beat us by 1-7 points, no more than that! We straight played awful on top of inexperience/injuries and still did not get shut out or get 40 scored on us by a very talented Miami team. We could have very easily been a 1 loss team and that's with all the bad luck we had, but we still were .500 and won a bowl game.
It comes down to going 100% week in and out so when issues like this season happen we are mediocre at best, vs not going 100% and being mediocre to start with, then you just drop to awful. The coaches and players all gained valuable experience this season, the injured players will heal, and we will get in some talented recruits that will be equal or better than what we are losing IMO. The bad recruiting classes are getting older now and the young guys coming in are hungry.
These past 3 years have been filled with adversity, inexperience, and lack of talent. I believe we have reached the end of that and this coming season will prove it. Last years team went 8-5 and was looking like they were almost out of the woods but losing 7 on defense and the starting qb did not help.
Considering the William and Mary and OSU games this team showed what they can do when they are healthy!
Having said this, I don't think next year is just hype, I think the ACC will see the Va Tech that teams did not want to play at Lane Stadium and I am very excited!
I'm still not completely convinced, but...
Hate to rain on this parade but Shai and Marshawn may very well redshirt.
They'll be 'back' but not available.
I still think it will be 2016
I'll be the pessimist and say I'm not buying it.
Coming into this season, the schedule was favorable, and we lost two games before the injuries really began to mount. We lucked out with the Buckeyes, with Brewer throwing many near-interceptions that would have turned the game around in Ohio State's favor. While I appreciate how gutsy he is, we need something better at QB. Brewer's deep ball is typically pretty poor; he doesn't have the arm strength to pose a real downfield threat to the defense. Furthermore, on the defensive side of the ball we will be replacing a couple players in the backfield, which happened to be arguably the weakest part of the defense all season.
Again, the schedule sets up favorably. We should be no worse than 3-1 moving into ACC play. However, as this year demonstrated, we are anything but consistent in conference play these days. The talent was there to do great things this year. Even with the injuries, there was no reason for this team not to win 8-10 games in the regular season against a very weak ACC field. If we couldn't win our division when only two teams finished with an above 0.500 record in the regular season, it seems that we are probably worse off than most think.
I would guess 7-5 or 8-4 for next season, although anything less than 10 wins and a Coastal Division title would be a failure in my eyes.
I don't think that's pessimistic at all. I'd say your outlook is more realistic than pessimistic for sure.
You simply cannot shrug off the win at the Horseshoe as lucking out if you want to base your argument on close losses that could just as easily be argued as the other team "lucking out." I'm all in favor of what you're arguing in terms of a lack of consistency, but trying to throw out the OSU win because Brewer made some dangerous throws is suspect. We won that game and proved that essentially the same roster we'll have next season has the ability to beat an elite team. Like you pointed out, it's a question of consistency. If we don't find it, I could easily see the 7-5 campaign you predict. Of we do manage to find some consistency, next season could be very special.
I'm not exactly trying to throw out the OSU game, but go back and watch the film. We got very lucky in that game. I will still say Ohio State lost because they failed to make adjustments to attack our Cover-0 defense. They burned us once, but ultimately failed to capitalize against the man coverage.
As far as us beating an elite team, I don't think that anyone could honestly claim that the Ohio State team we beat was as good as the one that made the playoffs, nor were they an elite team at the time we defeated them.
You aren't throwing the win out, but we were lucky and they weren't the elite team they are now? So what exactly are you trying to do with that win other than argue it away to further your point?
They failed because they threw at a Fuller, and Brewer was clutch just about all game long, with maybe 3 or so poor throws/decisions, 2 of which actually hurt us. Also, they haven't played anyone with anything near the pass rush that Tech brought, with the secondary behind them to cover it.
They really tried to take advantage of the cover - 0 and could not.
I have full faith that Bud had a plan for his adjustment if they had made an effective adjustment to our cover - 0.
We beat OSU fair and square. We outplayed them. We didn't "get lucky".
Thats a bunch of BS.
Yes, they are better now, but thats no excuse for them. We went into the Horseshoe and beat them.
Not sure why you are trying to minimize our best victory of the year.
I don't understand the need to minimize it either, because saying we have the talent to beat an elite team doesn't adversely affect his argument. He's saying it's a lack of consistency that's killing our chances. So it shouldn't matter that we have the ability to beat an elite team. Inconsistency would still prevent us from having a big run.
My only guess is if he admits we have the ability to beat a playoff team, then if we find consistency then we would potentially have the type of season next year he says we aren't going to have.
In general there's a lot of dimsissing the Ohio State win that I just don't get. That's one of the biggest wins in program history, even if it came in a bad season. And it shows what this roster is capable of. Maybe it's that potential that naysayers feel a need to discredit. If you want to establish a narrative that we're awful, you can't accept that we have the potential to beat anyone.
This season actually had a happy ending and yet there are a pile of people on here that just want to bring up how miserable this team is and will be. I don't get it. I guess some people are just happier being disgruntled.
Ohio State was a great game plan, great execution, perfect timing, and all forgot about in the shadow of Ray Rice. The good news is we get a round 2 next year. What's the excuse gonna be when we take them behind the woodshed again? Will Urban start crying about stress and family?
I'm not trying to discredit the Ohio State game as a whole, just that the Ohio State team we beat was elite. I understand that it was a huge win for us, but Ohio State improved dramatically over the course of the season. I would say, at that point in time, they were a Top 15 team at best. They were replacing 4/5 starters along the offensive line, and the starting QB and RB. Bud Foster's defense is the last one you would want to face to break in that many starters.
I think that we have the potential to beat the good - even great - teams, but I don't think we are at the level we need to be to take down an elite team. If we beat them next year I will eat my crow, but I do not see it happening.
They "improved" dramatically, the next game & were dominant for the rest of the season, except two 7 pt wins on the road vs eventual bowl teams. And they dominated the stats in those games. Were tyhery better, later in the season? Probably, but only marginally. They didn't go from being a mid-tier P5 team to elite, as your statement seems to imply.
Ohio State has only marginally improved? To be blunt, that is completely and utterly wrong. If you think a team that was replacing 6 offensive starters only marginally improved, you have no idea what you are talking about. A team that marginally improved does not convincingly beat the #8 team on the road, and does not dominate a ranked team 59-0. Furthermore, one of those seven point wins was against a ranked opponent.
I think that, like many fans, you want the Ohio State game to mean more than it actually does. We caught a team at a time that was advantageous for us. We won a close game against a good team that would go on to be great, and fans want to hold onto that. But there is absolutely no way that the Ohio State team you see in the playoff and the Ohio State team we beat in the Shoe are the same team.
By that rationale, do early season games matter at all? I'll agree with you that teams evolve throughout the course of a season, but to claim that this Buckeye team somehow isn't the same team we beat in the 'Shoe in September is a stretch. We played the #8 team in their stadium and never trailed. To say we got them at the right time, they got us with a QB starting his second game (first against an FBS opponent) after being in the program about two months. And he toasted them. You play teams when the game's scheduled, and the value of the result is not diminished.
It seems you want the result to mean less than it does.
I'm not saying that early season games don't matter, but when a team is as young as both of those were it makes a big difference. They were replacing 4/5 starters on the offensive line, while we were only replacing one. This is probably what had the biggest impact on the game. While it was Brewer's first start, he had seen game action, unlike Barrett.
I'm not dismissing the game, but they were only #8 because it was a preseason ranking. It would take until Week 12 for Ohio State to climb back into the Top 10.
Coming into the game against us, Barrett had more playing time against an FBS opponent than Brewer did. And that rebuilt offensive line allowed them to score 66, 50, 52 and 56 points in the four games immediately after facing us. To claim they got better after they faced up, well it was a pretty immediate improvement. And trying to argue that they were only #8 because of a preseason poll when they finished the season at #4 is a reach. They were a legit ranked team when we beat them, just like they're a legit playoff team now, and we beat them in their house.
Not to mention the fact that VT scored 35 in their house. Whats the excuse for their D going from that game to basically shut down every O for the next 4 games?
Something I will point out is that the Virginia Tech offense only scored 28 of those points. Those scoring drives started at the OSU 43, VT 42, VT 39, and VT 35. The longest offensive drive of the game covered 65 yards. The defense and special teams put them in a position to win, and they capitalized.
Now to respond to your statement about Ohio State's defense over the next 4 games. These are the yards and points given up, with opponent's record included (VT game included at the top for comparison).
OPP Rushing Passing Total Points
VT (6-6) [125] [199] [324] [35]
KENT ST (2-9) [47] [79] [126] [0]
CIN (9-4) [70] [352] [422] [28]
MD (7-5) [66] [244] [310] [24]
RUT (8-5) [149] [196] [345] [17]
AVG (no VT) [83] [217.75] [300.75] [17.25]
SEASON AVG [139.8] [188.2] [328] [21.2]
So really, considering that the defense scored one of the touchdowns, our offense performed one touchdown above Ohio State's scoring average and about even on yards. Now here is where the difference comes in, and it shows why we pay Bud the big bucks:
OSU OFFENSE Rushing Passing Total Points
AVG [260.8] [246.8] [507.6] [45.2]
vs. VT [108] [219] [327] [21]
And to show their offense over the season:
OSU OFFENSE Total Yards Points Opp Def (Yd) Opp Def (Pt)
NAVY [420] [34] [403.8] [27.3]
VT [327] [21] [343.8] [20.2]
KENT ST [628] [66] [430.3] [29.0]
CIN [710] [50] [439.1] [27.2]
MAR [553] [52] [438.1] [28.9]
RUT [585] [56] [442.8] [30.2]
PENN ST [293] [31] [278.7] [18.6]
ILL [545] [55] [456.4] [34]
MICH ST [568] [49] [293.5] [19.9]
MINN [489] [31] [362.7] [23.4]
IND [527] [42] [433.8] [32.8]
MICH [416] [42] [311.3] [22.4]
WISC [558] [59] [283.2] [20]
The only game in which Ohio State did not go above the defense's average was against us. Later in the season, the dominated elite defenses by Michigan State and Wisconsin, and defeated three defenses (Penn St, Mich St, Wisc) that were statistically better than Virginia Tech.
The Ohio State game followed the recipe for a Virginia Tech victory: adequate offense, and a dominant defense that wins the field position battle and puts the offense in position to succeed. While I believe that the Ohio State offense has improved dramatically, the numbers are ambiguous and admittedly lean more towards the offense being consistent throughout the year (although I believe that is because the 2nd - 6th opponents were weak and lead to some inflation).
Sorry for the horrible table formatting.
They looked really good when playing teams not having a lunch pail defense.
Every team has to deal with new starters. When viewed in the context of every team improves over the course of the season, OSU's improvement is marginal. They just happen to blow out teams in their next 3 games but according to you were a lost cause, when they played VT. I'm not trying g to make more of it that it was. VT was the "perfect storm" in terms of match ups. They were playing at home in a highly hyped early season game. There's no way that they were a dramatically different team that game, then just flipped a switch to be elite, the rest of the season.
As I read through the comments on this post all I can think of is how many people that are saying they're "fully dipped" 15-0, and all the other unrealistic comments will be the same folks calling for Frank Beamer's head next season when things don't pan out and we aren't the next FSU or Alabama. I want nothing more than for VT to be National Champs next season but I also realize that's not reasonable. I feel like being more realistic would probably keep some of the negativity regarding our legendary head coach (a man that's done more for VT than anyone on this site)to a low roar. I'm not saying let's all be happy with 6-6 but instead let's have some realistic expectations. As a die hard Hokies fan for over 20 years, and someone who's been known to place a wager or two on sporting events, I often ask people how they would "predict" a season or game will go if their money depended on it. They'd probably be a lot more realistic in their "predictions" and expectations. With all that said, Go Hokies! Let's try make this season better as fans. Let's be loyal, support the staff and try to be as mentally tough and emotionally resilient as we ask our players and coaches to be.
Hear here.
Agree. The fanbase could try doing a lot more supporting and a lot less criticizing. It makes for a more enjoyable experience.
Here's a leg just because you had 666. Sheesh.
One back at ya for keeping the bad mojo away
Agree. I said I'm "buying," but that just means I'm looking to be in the coastal division hunt & something equal to or north of 9-10 wins. Not necessarily playoffs & a NC game. Although like a surprise blackberry pie on a Wednesday, I'd be cool
with it.
Will there be any hype outside of Hokie Nation? Will we be in any of those 'programs on the rise' articles this summer? Or will we be picked to finish 4th in the Coastal? I'm not trying to be negative, I wonder how we'll be perceived by regional and national media.
I think that those writers that look at the roster and what's coming back will give VT a good chance in the coastal.
Duke loses a good bit, UNC's defense needs major work but a lot of talent coming back, Pitt could be really good, Miami loses Duke Johnson, uva is still coached by Mike London. The GT game will be a marquee game IMO.
Little column A, little column B, I think. It'll be interesting to keep an eye on for sure. Last year, we had a whole boatload of unknowns coming back/entering into the offense with some significant turnover on defense as well. This year, we've got a whole lot more coming back, so I think we'll get a little bit of buzz because of it. I think we're in a good spot. 7-6 is not a terrible place to start from and build off of, but we definitely won't have the pressure of being the expected champs. We always seem to do well there.
I'm bullish on VT in 2015 and was looking forward to 2015 before 2014 began. Tons of freshman picked up valuable playing experience the last 2 years. There's not a lot lost from the roster as noted and where we do lose players there's depth. I could see VT winning 10 games.
To the actual schedule
Hard Games (Night Game)
Ohio State
Good Games (Afternoon Game)
@ East Carolina
@ Georgia Tech
@ Boston College
Intriguing Games (Thursday Night Game)
at Miami
Duke
Easy Games (Noon Game)
North Carolina
Pittsburgh
@ Virginia
NC State
@ Purdue
Furman
There is really just 1 hard game. But 8-4
Don't think i'd consider Pittsburgh and NC State as easy games.
ECU loses a ton next year.
Pitt is rebuilding their team's front office completely so how can they be good. It's a VT home game so no Ketchup Field Curse
NC State had one good win this year, UCF and 0 Last year and no good recruiting classes in 3 years.
Pitt will forever be a 6-6 team. In years we play them in Lane, we'll win. In years we play them at Pitt, we'll lose. That's just how things will go. Still, they won't ever be an easy team to beat.
NC State and Pitt should be under good or at least intriguing, they will be no easy pushover for sure.
Pitt is rebuilding their team's front office completely so how can they be good. It's a VT home game so no Ketchup Field Curse
NC State had one good win this year, UCF and 0 Last year and no good recruiting classes in 3 years.
IF NC state isn't a pushover there is serious problems with VT
Two things:
1) we went 1-3 against ACC foes at home last season.
2) we lost to wake forest, so picking out "pushovers" seems a bit much
GUT REACTIONS -- ARE YOU BUYING THE 2015 HYPE OR NOT?
All season has been about the hype for next season so that shouldnt be an issue....right?!?!?!
NC State had a better record than VT and played FSU/Clemson. They're not a crap team.
Brissett has a chance to be the best QB in the ACC next season.
the Pack's leading receiver in 2014 will pursue his academic and athletic goals at Yale, the prestigious Ivy League university next season and beyond.
2014 NC State beat the living hell out of a Wake Forest defense that destroyed VT's offense. All of their 5 losses were to bowl teams (BC, GT, FSU, Clemson, Louisville- none of those are bad teams). And their QB comes back.
Next year might be one of the most interesting seasons that I've seen. Reading some of the rhetoric from Scot Loeffler, it sounds like the coaching staff is a little big on edge. They know they have nine starters coming back on defense and eight starters coming back on offense (depending on how you want to do the math and what constitutes a "starter").
The real question is what is going to happen to this coaching staff if we "don't meet up to expectations"? What are our expectations? Will 10 wins and the division title be enough? Will winning the conference championship be enough in what seems like a wide open ACC next year?
I have no idea what the hell is going to happen but I think there's more intrigue coming into this season than any in recent memory.
The defense could be Top 10, maybe Top 5. As long as the players put in the work in the offseason, the D will be nasty. The real question is what the offense will bring. The offense could leap-frog into into the 50s. Really depends on 1) Loeffler improving this offseason, 2) Brewer improving this offseason, 3) Teller staying healthy, 4) the right side of the O-line learning to pass block.
Top 5 D + top 50-percentile offense will lead to 10-11 wins. More likely, VT will put out a top 10 D and top 70-percentile offense, leading to 7-9 wins.
8-9 wins and an offense that doesn't crack the top 60 IMO. Defense should be top 10-15 IMO and hopefully special teams builds off of the bowl game.
I still don't see the defense being top 5 although the DT spot should be as deep as it's ever been. Dadi and Ken put up nice stats but it took a ton of blitzing to get those numbers and if we just rush 4 we rarely get any pressure. LB and secondary will have concerns as well although we have a lot of talent there and incoming.
I honestly don't know who will start at QB next year but Ford or Durkin need to be given a chance to prove they have a future here at Tech. I love Brewer's heart but we need a dual threat type of QB to take the next step up as a program. Spring practice should be wide open, best man wins.
I think next year will be better than this year. How much better, I have no idea. I'd be thrilled if we got back to 10 wins, but I'm not even sure about that.
I'll probably be on this small kiddie train for now. O-line is looking better, still needs to get the pass protection down. RB's depth is a little nerve recking but we can figure that out come fall. WR/TE depth is schmoney so we should be all set to dance there.
The one thing that will be interesting is QB- does Brewer saddle up and improve off his 1st year, who will be the wild turkey qb? Motley/durkin and is Ford that far behind? Lawson would be great but he will likely be redhsirted IMO if he commits.
QB1- Brewer/Ford
WildTurkey QB- Durkin/Motley- I think Durkin could overtake motley just due to his physical nature. Yeah motley can take the hits but he seemed a little fragile this year. Also Imagine Durkin Sr.'s celebration when he sees his son lay the wood on a poor defender.
Next year is made or broken on the O-line. Brewer is tough as nails and after the punishment he took this season I'd like to see him get a real shot to remain the starter. I've argued all year that it really wouldn't matter who was in at QB if you have guys busting through the line as soon as the ball has been snapped.
Teller looks like the real deal once he started getting a good amount of playing time. Hopefully Clark will be as good next year.
With the exception of Tyrod or Johnny Football, this is 100% accurate. Completely unfair to throw a guy under the bus as a "bad" QB when you lose count of the number of times you hear the commentator use the phrase, "pressure up the middle" during a game.
I agree with this mostly but having mobility at QB would also help, Brewer does not have much of this.
Tyrod he is not, but the kid can scoot when he needs to.
Part of that is on the QB as well. They're responsible for recognizing blitzes and situations when there are more blitzers than blockers. Brewer wasn't great at that.
There were plenty of plays where he had more than enough time to get rid of the ball as well, but instead backtracked and took a sack or just did nothing with it. Acting like he was under pressure every pass attempt just isn't accurate.
Have you ever played QB, even in a back yard/intramural setting? If you're getting hit just about every time you drop back (which Brewer was on pretty much anything that wasn't a bubble screen), it's unbelievable difficult to not assume you're going to be under pressure on some subconscious level. Shoot, we saw the same thing from Cam Newton this year after he looked like he was taking some major steps forward last year. The QB doesn't exist in a bubble, and neither does each individual play (despite every coach's attempts to get kids to forget about the last play and go focus on this one). Those hits add up, quickly.
Now, that said, there were definitely some times where he needed to throw the ball away/check it down instead of trying to scramble his way out of stuff, but those are the kinds of things I expect him to work on during the offseason - trusting his reads and his teammates and playing within the offense.
Buy, but not all in like yesteryears. I need to hedge with a few other purchases on this one.
Awful is really harsh...I would consider him to be average...not great probably not good. Awful is pretty harsh
Buy. (see signature)
I am buying some hype, with my money if I need to....
We will play in the 2015 ACC championship game, not sure we win, but we will play. I was at both the UVA and the Cincy game and the passion from the team during both games tells me a lot about team chemistry. This team really likes playing for one another. They are so young and talented, and we will hopefully not get hit as badly with the injury bug next year. The future looks bright. I for one remain excited. Go Hokies, Beat OSU (again)!
This schedule reeks of between 7 and 9 wins, and that's it. I thiiiiiink we could go back to the ACCCG, but I need to see what happens to GA Tech first.
I'll buy, but on the lower side for now. Hopefully tempering my expectations will pan out better
Sigh...I always buy the hype.
Seasons greetings, TKP.
As for the Hype... I'm ALWAYS all in. I've said it before... I've never sat in the stands, or grabbed the remote for one game that I didn't believe that the Hokies wouldn't win.
Now that's the Hokie spirit right there.
Yeah, I'm buying it.
I bought it before the season started 2014 for the 2015 and 2016 seasons but got too excited by the quality of the anOSU win to keep from getting high expectations about 2014.
I still think that without all the injuries we'd be playing FSU in the ACCCG. We lost too many guys in positions that needed depth like OLine.
That being said, no way we're playing for NCG. No matter what Egbert Homer says, it ain't happening in the next 3 years.
Why make this season any different then any other, I'm all in on the hype train.
Hell yessssssssssss!