Picture this. You're Shane Beamer. You have a total of 9 capable backs on your roster, and that doesn't even include Sam Rogers, who will get his share of carries as well. You have a decision to make similar to that of 2010 when the likes of David Wilson, Ryan Williams, and Darren Evans were all in the same backfield. Who do you start? Who gets the most carries? Does anyone redshirt? The options are endless. Choose between:
Marshawn Williams
JC Coleman
Shai McKenzie
Trey Edmunds
Joel Caleb
Jerome Wright
Deshawn McClease
DJ Reid
Travon McMillian
Personally, I have no idea but I know that the best backs are (in no order) Marshawn, Shai, Trey and I never thought I'd say it but JC Coleman. McClease will redshirt for sure. Wright may switch positions and back up Rogers. McMillian could become another Newsome/Parker/Stroman type of receiver. Caleb unfortunately will be buried, as will Reid. But as far as the top 4, I just hope we get them all enough carries to be effective.
What would you do?
Comments
Step 1: redshirt Shai and Juice. Especially Shai. Back to back seasons with ACL injuries, the man needs time to mend.
Beyond that, just open it up in spring ball. But honestly I see JCC winning back the stating role, backed by Trey and McMillian in one order or another.
If Juice comes back super strong then you question playing him next season and then I see a thunder and lightning backfield of Juice and JCC. Juice does have a history of being a bull in recovery. The man wants to play, and between the two ACL injuries this year i see Juice as the more likely return for 2015.
But for his own good I think Shai needs the redshirt.
Agreed
I wonder if Joel could play as a big Slot WR? I know ppl said he had trouble with Leftys play book but with another year and the amount of TBs we have, we should think about spreading the field with all this talent.
That's where he started out and he never caught on. Doubt he'd want to go back.
Start Trey/JC . Near 50/50 split. FEED THE HOT HAND! No more yanking out for sake of yanking out.
Redshirt mcclease, juice, and shai.
Use Reid/McMillan/Caleb in mop up situations a lot so that they get reps and are ready if either #1 goes down.
IMHO Shai is clearly our best and most versatile back. Hope he recovers.....Excited to see mcclease as we'll.
I'd say it's almost certain that one of Shai or Marshawn redshirts next year, and it's possible both do. I don't think there's any reason to rush a return after ACL injuries. Additional recovery time without the stresses of live-action playing can only help.
I think we see Tray & JCC splitting carries, with DJ seeing good action as well.
I hate to say it, but I wouldn't be surprised to see Caleb look to transfer. And I've been kind of assuming Wright would be as well.
Well wright was going to transfer until we needed him and convinced him tand notable now ever that went down. I've always wanted Caleb to do well and I kiow everyone was excited about him when he signed with the good guys. For whatever reason he just hasn't been able to crack the depth chart anywhere. It wouldn't surprise me at all to see him transfer but I don't think it would really hurt us with the depth we have at that position. Barring another injury filled year that is.
Is this English? lol.
I spent about 2 minutes trying to figure that sentence out, but then it gave me an angry headache so I gave up.
It's the dork magic speaking
I'd start JC and spell him with Edmunds until Shai and Williams are absolutely 100% healthy. Then I'd start rotating whichever of those two has the better practice week in certain situations.
JC - 65-70% carries
Edmunds - 15-20% carries
Shai/Williams - whatever is left
I would keep Rogers at Fullback to block and maybe throw him the ball on some screen plays here and there
It's a good "problem" to have.
If I were Shane Beamer.....
First, I would enjoy this win.
Then I would see how everyone heals and go from there. Think about putting a redshirt on Marshawn and Shai, depending on how they recover, knowing I have JC and Trey that can both be very effective when healthy. But there's no point in trying to decide anything now, too much can happen between now and spring practice (let alone the start of the season). Just enjoy the win and try to get the Gatorade stains out of my socks.
Try Caleb at Safety
I second this if only to get him on the field somewhere. He was the star of the recruiting class. he has talent that can be used. And if I were him I would be asking the coaches to put me somewhere that has more need.
I agree with the point to get Caleb on the field, but as far as the 'stars of recruiting classes' go, Nick Dew and Nic Acree were also touted coming in and rarely saw the field for some reason or another. Of course, the topic of highly rated recruits vs 2/3 stars has been well documented on TKP. But I do agree that Caleb is athletic enough to contribute somewhere.
difference is caleb was considered the top player in the state prior to his injury. his problem was he only wanted to play on offense coming in IMO. Should have started on defense.
Whoever is actually healthy #don'tcountyourhokiesbeforetheyhatch
Gonna need a new face to be #3. I see JC and Trey as 1 and 2. Shai and Juice likely need the whole year to get right, so redshirt them and let them go all in on strength and conditioning.
If that's the case I would expect to see McMillian steal some carries. The coaches debated for a long time whether or not to redshirt him this season. Wright could also hop in the mix because of his experience.
i would play whomever won't deny themselves pussy touchdowns!!!
What a great problem to have. #RBU returning...
Unless they are really 100%, which I can't see happening until mid season, I would redshirt Shai and MW. Get those guys fully healthy and let them rehab. Even if they were perfectly healthy by midseason, why waste a half a season of eligibility...that is if...
Trey and Coleman stay healthy. If so, I have 100% confidence in those two getting it done with Sam mixing in some full back death blows behind teller pancakes.
I'll call this now...i'm not sure about reid and the others, but I can see McClease being a scout team monster and making waves in 2016 and 2017.
I think Juice redshirts. His ACL was late in the season and 9 months puts him right at the beginning of camp. Shai could be ready since his was earlier in the season but I would not be surprised if they both redshirt to heal and get strength back around the knee.
I think we will see JCC as the #1 Trey at #2 and it is too early to tell about #3. Reid is a big back with speed. McMillian is supposed to be electric and the coaches really like him. I have a feeling he will be the #3. Wright I think moves back to FB to back up Rogers. McClease likely redshirts but that is never a certain thing with RBs especially a guy who broke the rushing records at Oscar Smith.
It will be interesting. We will have playmakers on the field next year on offense. Another year of experience and another/first spring for a lot of our freshman will be huge. Ford, Phillips, Hodges, Newsome, and possibly Stroman going both ways all getting the extra reps and time playing together will be huge. I hope Leoffler can execute what he wants to do next year. If we get results from the running game like we did the last 1/4 of the season, we will be a MUCH better team next year. Play action and getting our playmakers outside in space will be what makes this offense churn. Whoever the RBs are next year, their success and the teams' success lies with the OL who turned the corning in the running game some.
It would be a fantastic boost for McClease to make an impact in early 2016. Even crazier? Nobody at RB on the roster except for JC graduates until 2017.
EVEN CRAZIER: Every player who has scored this year is returning next season (I think... requesting fact check).
Confirmed: Bitter's article yesterday mentioned that. Also 89 percent of our offensive yards return.
so no seniors scored at all this year? if that doesn't speak volumes about how far the recruiting for skill positions fell off I dont what does.
Mark Leal! Hahahaha
Even the Paperboy didn't deliver to the end zone this year. The only other upperclassmen skill position players were Knowles, Malleck and JC.
That gives me warm fuzzy feelings all over. We could actually be good next year, guys!
i know not really pertaining to our current backfield and dont want to see him beast against us but im excited to see what chris mangus does at ECU! i expect big things. i guess i thought about it because of all the Joel Caleb transfer talk. id hate to see him go but i know the kid has tallent i would love to see him get some PT somewhere and show what hes got.
I hate to be a debbie downer, but I'm not convinced JCC can keep up this pace. Not saying he can't, and absolutely not saying he shouldn't be given a chance, but I need more than just 3 good games before I'm confident giving him 70+% of the carries.
In the limited carries I have seen, I think Shai is closest to an every down back that we have. But his injury must be considered. Same goes for Trey. He looked like he was starting to break through in Miami/UVA games, but then got injured. I don't think he's been 100% since.
IMO, Marshawn needs time to develop. He's not quite there yet.
Deshawn McClease will probably redshirt, unless he really excels on Special Teams, or is more talented than the others.
Caleb and Wright should have scenarios/packages for them, but that's it. They haven't picked it up as quickly as the others.
TL;DR if everyone is healthy I predict the depth chart to look as such, with all others redshirting:
Reid and McMillian are already redshirting this year.
Also, slightly off topic, but I do know that McMillian was rather upset about not getting much of a shot at the QB competition. It will be interesting to see how he is used over his career and if he gets bitter or is motivated to succeed elsewhere.
thanks, I should've realized that. Will be interesting to see how McMillian fits in.
JCC is playing above his body weight. He is running through people and making them miss, and I think as long as he keeps doing that let him run. Good for him. Coleman is confident, along with our OLine, and I think that has made a world of difference, and I don't think he will lose that over the year. Give credit to the OLine too.
See, I'm kinda worried because that happened to him from '12-'13. When camp rolls around we will be in a similar situation that we were at the start of '13 (Edmunds-Coleman). The other thing too is that when he came in, he wasn't the feature back, therefore other teams weren't able to scheme against him like they will when next season rolls.
So... With Trey, Shai & Marshawn out vs Duke, they didn't know that JC would be the main back that we would try? Or the same vs LOLUVA? Or trey being a "maybe" at best, cincy didn't know JCC would be the bprimary back, even though he was in each of the prior 3 games and the had over 3 weeks of prep?
What I meant by that comment wasn't that there was zero footage to scheme for, but that the footage for Juice and Shai was more extensive than Coleman. 4-6 games of footage is more to go off than 3.
If it weren't for the fact that JCC had more carries that shai or marshawn, with lefty as OC, I would buy your point. I'm not a film expert, but I'd wager that plays called for JCC weren't radically different in the last 4 games than in prior games that he had carries. Its more about OL play improved & JCC ran with more attitude & was more decisive, than earlier in the year.
Teams schemed for Trey in 2013 but that didn't matter. Teams scheme for every starting running back ever but they still run for 100+ yards. If JC is good enough, he will succeed no matter who is 'scheming' to prepare for him.
Maybe I'm wrong, but don't opposing D coordinators scheme more against an opponent's blocking tendencies rather than against the nuances of an individual back?
ankles.
The guy had 2 marginal ankles for a long time.
He did run tentative and almost looked intimidated for the beginning of the year.
By the end of this year, he looked intimidating. 180 degree change.
Maybe he finally got confidence in his ankles, maybe Shane gave him the "Here's your chance, the team is depending on you, show them how tough you really are, make Teller open some holes for you. If there's no hole, pancake your own. Make Duke hate you, again."
I'll give JC a lot of credit for his last few games, but running through people and making people miss are two things I have not seen him do. He typically goes down on contact and I've yet to see him really make anyone miss in the open field. He has been much more patient letting holes develop and more often then not picked the right hole though.
I dunno, I feel like he's made a lot of people miss lately.
http://youtu.be/MnvU3RtIJIY?t=1m18s
This is one example.
Edit: Also at 6:05 in that video
Yeah, that's extremely selective memory. I counted 4 such instances in the UVA game and 3 in the Cinci game. Around half of his opportunities to do so. Just because he isn't Ryan Williams doesn't mean he isn't playing well.
Also, since when is having speed and vision and going untouched a bad thing?
I agree. It seems like JCC is at his best on the zone read plays where he can sort of wait for the hole to open and burst through it. I just don't see our Oline creating the holes against a team like OSU like they did against cincy. This is why the best backs are versatile. If JCC could couple these read plays with running up the gut then hell yeah, he's our guy. I just don't see it with his size. Dont get me wrong, I love JC and love what he brings to our team, but I don't believe he is our best back. Shai is a guy who can do it all. He has the perfect mix of speed and size to go along with vision and instincts. The only downside to him is that damn knee!
Juice and Shai redshirt. JC starts against Osu. JC and Trey become co 1s (acknowledged coach speak) by ACC schedule time. McMillian 3 and Reid 4. Wright backs up Rogers but may start at fb or Reid depending on how Sam heals.
I have a feeling 1 or 2 guys may be transferring. I hope not. But I wouldn't put it past.
Who? I could see Caleb or Wright transfer but don't see anyone else as a realistic possibility. Like others have said, redshirt Shai and Juice next year. Play Coleman and Trey at 1/2.
I think Wright will stay. My guess would be Caleb, McMillan and possibly Reid.
McMillan and Reid just red-shirted. There is little chance that either will transfer. Plus, Reid could be moved to defense (LB?) and McMillan can play DB, WR, and/or QB.
IMO Wright won't see the field at RB ever again. Too many guys ahead of him... Edmunds, Coleman, Williams, McKenzie, Reid, McMillian. So he either needs to switch to FB or transfer. He still has a redshirt season remaining, so look for him to take it next year. Either @ VT or somewhere else.
I know everyone is really high on JCC right now seeing as how he finished the season, but I think everyone forgets just how good Trey was when 100%. Assuming that with an offseason of rest, he is fresh (both injuries were broken bones, not ligament tears). I see Trey getting the most carries of all the backs next year. Shai wil most likely be redshirted coming off another knee injury and with how late in the season Juice was hurt I would think it prudent to RS him as well.
Everyone has a distorted perception of how long it takes to come back from an ACL after Peterson did it in 9 months, but most people feel that you are looking at 18 months before you are back to where (or at least as good as it's going to get) you were prior to the injury.
Agree with Trey. But how is it that if a (and I use this loosely) "normal" person busts their ACL, gets surgery and is back in 3-6 mos vs a super virile athlete takes 10-18 mos??
Because 'super virile' (?) athletes are doing much more to their ACL on a daily basis than a "normal" person. ACLs are fine to walk on in 6 months, but to cut and sprint takes much longer to heal.
Because a "normal" person isn't putting anywhere near the same amount of stress and force on those ligaments
It's more of a question of what your definition of "back" is. There is a vast difference between the time someone COULD play and when someone SHOULD play. One of the biggest things athletes talk about with ACL injuries is getting confidence back in the joint. That includes having enough belief in the repair to really plant that foot in the ground and cut like you did prior to the injury. That takes rehab, time, and reps.
I'll use Braxton Miller (Loosely; ACL:RB::Shoulder:QB) as an example; He was healthy enough that he COULD start practicing this past summer, but many have argued that he SHOULDN'T have been taking reps that early. Given the play of Barrett, not that anyone saw that coming, Braxton should have been given more time to fully heal. Another example is Doug Martin (RB - Tampa Bay). At the beginning of the year he was terrible. You could tell as this year progressed with the Bucs that he was getting more confidence back and was starting to make plays similar to pre-injury form.
I think too many athletes come back too soon before injuries are fully healed and put their NCAA/Pro careers in jeopardy due to pressure from programs, front offices, fans, etc. I don't think Braxton will ever be the same QB he was before and his draft stock is all but shot, which is a shame. IMO, Urban put winning games now ahead of Braxton's long-term health and potential career.
Don't forget conditioning.
These are guys that before the injury are in top condition and work on cardio and strength almost every day. They are at the top of their form.
bust a bone or an ACL in a leg and you immediately must stop most conditioning and work strictly as the PT demands.
You may work on an arm machine or something but that's not doing sprints and running hills daily.
After very limited mobility for a large chunk of a year, you can get some more mobility but don't want to get to practice speed for 8-9 months. Then you can start your conditioning in earnest.
Some recover their conditioning level that they had for 10 years of serious athletic effort faster than others but it still takes tremendous effort and time.
I don't expect either of these guys to be at anywhere near top form until mid season next year, maybe.
Edmunds should be 100% though.
My guess?
Shai and Marshawn redshirt. Trey #1 and JC #2, although we'll see close to 50/50 carries between them. Haven't seen either McMillian or DJ Reid yet, so I'll wait to make my judgement.
In an effort to get playing time to as many skill position guys as possible, the coaching staff uses a platoon system similar to what Kentucky basketball was trying to do this year.
The first group either uses two halfbacks or has Wright playing fullback in place of Edmunds/JCC
M. Brewer
T. Edmunds
J. Coleman
R. Malleck
I. Ford
C. Phillips
The second group has a completely different playbook.
B. Motley
S. Rogers
T. McMillian
B. Hodges
C. Parker
J. Caleb (as WR)
Motley spends most of the time lined up at QB so we don't see too much Wild Turkey. On every passing play each skill position player has about a ~10% chance of getting to throw the pass after a handoff/pitch (with Motley still getting the majority of the attempts). Because they score touchdowns on all of their drives against anOSU this platoon group sees extended playing time and creates confusion for opposing defenses all season. After winning the National Championship while having 7 players (including Brewer) throw 3+ td passes HCFB and Loeffler are recognized as visionaries who revolutionized college football with the 6 qb offense and people stop worrying about what our offensive identity is.
Or we just redshirt Shai/Marshawn, let JCC and Edmunds get the bulk of the carries and when one of them gest hurt (even if it's just minor) let Reid/McMillian get on the field. Maybe have some special packages designed for Joel Caleb that focus on passing the ball to him out of the backfield.
I hope this happens, but if it does, we're going to have quite the logjam in 2016.
If this happens I hope they will be used such that, in any one game, or maybe any half, ONE of them is clearly the workhorse and the other is the substitute. No more pulling a guy out as soon as he gets going, no more telegraphing the play call based on who is in the backfield.
Here's what 2016 would look like, roughly:
1) Shai
2) Marshawn
3) Trey
4) McMillian
5) McClease
Reid, Wright and Caleb would be odd men out by far.
When both healthy, Edmund's > Marshawn by a bit. And Mclease had yet to even practice in college. Reid was highly rated and supposedly is doing quite well on the scout team.
I'm still not convinced Reid will stay at RB. He was recruited as an athlete, and could be moved to the secondary or WR. But you could be right about him doing well on the scout team, in which case he could earn playing time.
I think this year taught us that depth is a very valuable asset to have... I'd use Trey and JCC, let Shai and Marshawn get completely healed before I even worried about what to do with them - redshirt if needed. If any of the others show they deserve playing time then use them in certain packages etc, a few snaps here and there so they aren't coming in all wide-eyed if injuries force them into a starting role later in the season
JC Coleman reminds me of those guys professional teams who are trying to make the playoffs sign to get them over the hump. Great player, but not enough to convince me he can do a full season of averaging 100+ per game.
It should be Trey and then JC, and then probably some combination of the rest. Perhaps Wright?
The staff would be short-sighted to not redshirt Shai and Juice
1. I would assume that neither Juice nor Shai will be available for next year (if they are, awesome)
2. Fox and McClease get redshirted
3. Divide up remainder into 3 groups; Power (Trey, Reid, Caleb, McMillian), Speed (JCC), Fullbacks (Rogers, Wright)
4. Identify the best combination of 2 from Group P, and one from each Group S, and Group FB over the course of spring and fall camps (12 combos possible)
5. Beat anOSU
*Power backs are those over 200 lbs
My impressoin is that McMillian is more of a 'speed' guy than 'power'. He's 6'0" 200lb and lightning quick. Reid has more of the power build at 6'0" 225lb.
Edmunds, McKenzie and Williams are all 220+ as well.
This scenario is exactly why VT and Wright burned his redshirt. He - and the coaches - likely knew his only shot to make an impression would be this season. After that? Probably gets buried on the depth chart the remainder of his career by either older, more experienced guys or younger, equally (or more) talented guys unless something unusual happens.
Those who were complaining about burning his redshirt were taking the narrow view of both his situation and the RB situation as a whole.
I would go with Coleman for the speed attack type running we are doing right now, declared the starter. I would go with Travon McMillan as this type of a back-up (Some Carries here and there/third down back). I would go with DJ Reid as the power guy, 3rd and 1. Trey Edmunds should be the top back-up, come in to give some relief after long runs.
Joel Caleb - Has this guy run out of his Chances? Unless there is improvement, I would think he plays very little late in games when a game is secured.
On Shai and Marshwn - Both ACL tears, Shai has 2 tears in 2 years, I would say red-shirt him and give him full recovery. Marshawn tore his ACL late in the year, I would not rush him. Both of these guys are too valuable for the future.
A lot can happen from now till Spring practice/game and then summer. I'm also hoping that there are no off-field issues/attrition, just from what happened last season, we need everyone.
Going into spring/fall, my gut feeling is the plan will be the following:
Marshawn Williams - Redshirt
JC Coleman - Co #1
Shai McKenzie - Redshirt, two ACL tears needs a year off.
Trey Edmunds - Co #1
Joel Caleb - Co #2
Jerome Wright
Deshawn McClease
DJ Reid #3
Travon McMillian - CO #2
Wright, McClease and Reid are going to be fighting for reps and or needing to look at other positions. Another potential is that McMillian might get moved to safety and out of the RB pool entirely.
I think they want to keep Travon McMillan on offense and Special teams, SL was too enthusiastic about him. He could even potentially be involved in Wildcat or Trick plays.
I think Derwoun Green and Chuck Clark will be our safeties along Shegog and Jones in 2 deep, Green's speed alone is good enough to replave Bonner, Clark has played a lot last 2 years.
Our corners will be Fuller, Mook Reynolds, Riley and Facyson
Mook is a really good incoming talent, but I don't know if we see him on the field over Stroman. Although, if Bud and Torian stick with their new #AllTheDBs defense we could possibly see all five of them on the field.
If we start converting everyone on the field to Safety, what will become of the TE jokes?
Convert Durkin to TE and then we can continue with the Jokes
I feel like everyone has forgotten about Desmond Frye. I think he is poised to take over at safety for Kysheon next year, and probably would have been a big contributor this year on special teams had it not been for his shoulder injury.
No way.
A contributor had an injury this year?
Say it isn't so. /sarc
You are correct of course.
Also I'm looking forward to seeing Greene on the field. His kick return at the end of the first half vs Cincy was key.
Ive heard Travon has looked really good on the scout team. Hes my sleeper going into next year. Could start over everyone.
That's a stretch. At best I think he's the #3 back next year.
To start the season, yes. I could see him making a surge up the depth chart as the season progresses if JCC regresses and Trey has injury issues.
Redshirt Shai and Juice, rotate JCC and Trey (similar to Humes and Imoh in 2004 and 2005), then Joel Caleb or McMillan or Jerome Wright (although I think Wright should be Rogers' back up) can be like Justin Hamilton in 2004 and be a pair of fresh legs.
i'm going to break it into two phases. Spring and fall.
Spring. Shai and Marshawn need to be inactive and proceed as if they will be redshirted for the season. Reevaluate in the fall. I'd be ok with Edmunds getting the extra time off too but at a minimum, he should be reduced in the spring. We know what we have in JCC, keep him fresh but limit his touches as well. To me, this is about everyone else. Everyone else needs the reps to evaluate what you truly have. Time to cut bait with a couple. That's harsh, but it's just the way it is.
Fall. Reevaluate the overall health of Shai, Marshawn and Edmunds. Hopfully Edmunds will be 100% finally. Maybe redshirt Shai and Marshawn but Marshawn may be a tougher decision and he may be good to go. Go into the season with Edmunds, JCC and whoever the cream of the spring was as your top 3. If there is a situational benefit to a 4th, then fine but it really needs to be the 1 and 2 carrying 90% of the load and 3 as a fill in.