Throughout the football season we experienced the joy of unexpected victory(OSU), which led to inflated expectations, and the lowest of lows the WF debacle (ok not the lowest of lows losing to lolUVA would have been worse). This team had injuries left and right, inconsistent o-line play, and the always tough but not always reliable Michael Brewer. Many people, myself included, talk about the quarterback being the most important player on the football field. The Brewer vs. Motley vs. Leal argument has been brought up and discussed enough for a lifetime, but now that it is the offseason I figured it's as good a time as any to pose a question I've been thinking about since at least the beginning of November.
How do you think the Hokies would have done if they had a QB from past VT teams? What do you think the ceiling and floor for a Michael Vick, Bryan Randall, Tyrod Taylor, or Logan Thomas led 2014 Hokies team injuries and all?
This is purely hypothetical and can never be proven one way or another, but I'm interested how the "A great quarterback can make a team a contender" and the "No QB can do anything without at least reliable players around them" balances when you have the (hypothetical) ability to put 4 of the top 5 (at least top 7) QB's around a team plagued by injuries and stupid mistakes.
Let's please try to keep this civil as again this isn't possible to know for sure, and recognize that answers are almost purely opinion based. I'll post the question below one more time and then feel free to discuss away...
How do you think the 2014 Hokies (injuries and all) could have done with either Michael Vick, Bryan Randall, Tyrod Taylor, or Logan Thomas. What's your ceiling and floor for each QB's led team?
Comments
Hard to say, but it wouldn't have been any worse than what we had. Tyrod spent most of his career playing behind a OLine that was bad, and he did alright. Logan probably would have struggled much in the same way he did throughout most of his career, as most of his issues arose from inaccurate passes due to constantly being under pressure, and I don't see how that would have changed. Vick probably would have had us playing and winning the Orange Bowl this year, because he was a once in a lifetime freak of nature that probably would have had him a runner up to Mariota in the Heisman race.
You bring up an interesting comparison with Randall, though. Everyone remembers how he turned into an absolute beast his senior year leading us to the 2004 ACC title, but before that year, in 2002 and 2003, there were a lot of questions about whether or not he should be our QB. He was inconsistent at best, and at times, downright bad. But then 2004 comes around and something clicked against GT and we ran that hot streak to what should have been an upset of undefeated Auburn in the Sugar Bowl, had Jesse Allen not dropped a wide open TD pass in what ended up being a 3 point loss.
What about Glennon? Seriously.
I didn't put him in there not because I don't think Glennon could have/ had been great just because he is a lot like like Michael Brewer in that he needs great O-line play to really reach his high potential which this team did not have...
I guess that makes sense. But I remember Glennon having a better arm then Brewer. He also was taller than Brewer too, which I know Brewer receives a bit a criticism on here for not being able to see over opposing lines.
I think Glennon would have played better than Brewer did this year. I also don't think he would have made it through the season like Brewer did taking those hits.
Glennon, aka Mouth Breather, was not very smart. I mean, he was not educated. Well, what I really meant is that he was....
too harsh? too honest?
FWIW, I did have classes with the man. woo boy
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Right there - don't levy personal attacks. Want to critique Glennon's abilities on the field? Great, let's talk football. Want to call him stupid? Don't.
My apologies.
I had classes with him as well.
Your comments were way, way out of line.
How the heck do some many of you have class with football players? Aren't they supposed to be in paper classes or something? Oh, no that's a school further south isn't it....
I had a summer class with Eddie Royal. Was pretty awesome since it was only 8 people.
I also had classes with the guy, small classes, and he graduated with over a 3.4 in finance. He wasn't my favorite, but he definitely wasn't unintelligent or a "mouth breather." He also did it with an athlete's schedule, which is no easy feat.
Didn't Glennon have wear a napoleon dynamite halloween costume once? I remember it being absolute fire. One of the best I've ever seen.
Respected him ever since. Costume game was that strong.
Sure was.
I've looked so long for a GT jersey to buy and recreate as this just to wear to a VT home game and see if I could get any comments.
I dunno about Napoleon Dynamite, but he did make a pretty awesome Borat
I'm more impressed with Sean now that I've seen this photo. Dude was clearly a player!
Let's be honest here, the last three seasons, we would all love to have the kind of success the squads Glennon played for had in Sacksburg. Him and Cory Holt also have one great podcast, and they collaborate with other former ACC football players for commentary and analysis here:
http://www.huddlepassnation.com/#!virginia-tech-huddle/c56i
To be fair, quite a few of us were impressed by Glennon's ability to take a hit back then.
well..he didn't really have much of a choice..
In all seriousness, I think Glennon could have been good with Lefty's offense. We thought a check down back then was a 15 yd out pattern. He might be able to survive behind a poor line now if he had some outlets to bail him out of trouble.
I think Glennon would have had less INTs and could have found Bucky more. He had an arm. He would have just been a sitting duck, which in my opinion, would have less to a wash in terms of overall impact. Brewer did have 'first-down' speed when he needed to and he had the balls to try to move the chains with his feet. I think he could have managed to get the team in field goal range against Wake, but I don't think he wins at OSU.
Agreed.
Mike Vick would have made any team a 9-win team
He really should have won the Heisman in '99. Today's voters would have awarded it to him.
That race then was like a Johnny Manziel-Brandon Weeden race today
I agree with that outlook. I also think that the fact that MV7 could only get is to 9 wins speaks well to how this team pulled together through adversity.
2014 w/Logan = 2013 w/Logan + maybe 2 more games thanks to a better receiving corps.
This seems like a good time to do this...
Wait, what were we talking about?
Methinks that French has ventured to a...different...part of the internet.
A big bowl of chicken noodle soup, and searching "Giada" on Giphy will cure what ails you on a cold day.
No need for the soup
Sidenote: that is a large, wide mouth
Apologies: double post.
The difference between all of those QBs and this past year?... they all had a run game.
You can argue their mobility would have given us a better chance than Brewer but I don't recall a run game as abysmal as we had these past 3 years. This holds true for LT's last 2 years, after he didn't have David Wilson.
Very true. Of course, Michael Vick is a run game all by himself, which would help.
Question is, how much of a run game would be be against modern offenses without Shyrone Stith or Lee Suggs in the same backfield?
Do we have any opportunity to insert the "Let's recruit Braxon Miller to VT so that he can beat his old team and lead us to the College Football Playoffs" conversation on this thread?
Michael Vick would be a really good improvement, probably undefeated ACC Champs. If we're talking about Logan Thomas having another year of eligibility and thus an extra Spring Practice with Loeffler, then I think it would be at least a 10 win season. He has every bit the toughness that we admire about Brewer along with more height and greater physical talent. With all the rest, it depends on at which point in their career we're talking about. I think Randall as a Senior and Tyrod as a Junior/Senior would have had better results with this group, and would have performed similarly to Brewer earlier in their careers.
Maybe I'm too biased, but with Vick behind center, I don't see a loss on the season. he was that kind of game changer. I'm assuming of course he could stay healthy the whole season. Tyrod would have been a notch behind him. There could probably be a lot of parallels drawn between Randall and Brewer, probably not much of a difference there. Logan would have pretty much looked like last year, maybe a game better.
I think we agree about Vick, I just didn't want to speculate about playing anyone past Florida State in the ACC championship game. With all the others I think it depends on when in their careers we're starting them. Taylor had two phenomenal years and two years where he was good but still split time with Glennon. Randall was pretty good later in his career, but again not a game changer early. Thomas was great with a strong supporting cast and I think would have been able to lead us to at least a 2 game improvement because of the stronger supporting cast and presumably an extra spring practice with Loeffler. I would peg us as winning against GT, Wake, and at least one other school with LT3 but possibly dropping the OSU game with him to put us at about 9-10 wins in 2014.
I would've given my right arm to have had Tyrod back this year. There's no way we have a worse record with him behind center. I'm not saying we would've won out or anything, but I feel like we would have been a better team than Georgia Tech with T-squared behind center. I know the SEC kinda showed its rear end in their bowl games and the ACC isn't as bad as it's perceived, but there's no denying the coastal was freaking awful in mid-October. Laughable even. Tyrod Taylor was simply a winner and would have found a way to win more than 6 regular season games knowing Bud Freaking Foster's smashmouth defense had his back in time of need. I know we were young and the injuries certainly played their part this year, but would anyone disagree that on paper we were a better team than our record showed?
With most of our losses being a score or less this year, I can't but feel like our only loss would've been to maybe....Miami, had we of had Tyrod as a quarterback.
I'll say this: I don't feel comfortable positing a guess as to how Quarterback X would have done this season because only one Hokie QB I'm aware of has been supported by this bad of a run game: LT3. And there's a lesson to be learned there. 2011, with David Wilson beside/behind him in the backfield, LT looked like a first round pick. 2012-13, he looks like... Well, he looked like the third string quarterback for Arizona, drafted as a development project.
I want to see how many games Michael Brewer wins with an effective running game.
Let me reverse the question a little bit. How do you think brewer would have done on some of our other teams? How would he have done with a team like the '99 team or any of our ACC championship teams?
If brewer had as much experience with Danny Coale he would have prouduced a similar season to tyrod in 2010. The only question I have is how stinespring would have used him. Tyrod played field general that year and didn't pull of any miracles outside the Stanford loss. Brewer has that potential if given time and healthy weapons. (Danny Coale is still open on the far sideline of Bank of America Stadium and I would give anything to see a RW DE DW backfield again)
Hmmm. I don't know about that. I remember thinking during that 2010 season (outside of the JMU game) that I wouldn't trade quarterbacks with anyone else in the country that season. He was great for most of that season. I think we won 11 games in a row?
Funny how that year, the offense seemed to be the more effective unit by and large. The pass defense was a ball hawk for sure (with Hosley and all), but the run defense was really lacking. I love that team though, and how they pulled together. I watched them play four games in person: the first two, UNC, and the first ACC Championship played at Bank of America Stadium.
Stanford was rough, but its not like that wasn't a great squad we faced in the Orange Bowl, with a potentially great college HC (if Michigan gives him a fair chance).
Exactly. Tech football has never been able to fire on all cylinders except for maybe '99. For example, we had a good offense in 2010 but probably one of buds worst defenses. What would our record be with the 2010 offense and 2006, 07, or 13 defense?
I think about this a lot. We would have run the table and been #3 on the outside looking in at Oregon and Auburn. That might have hurt more than what actually happened.
2003. Hands down the best offense we have had post-MV7, and IMO the worst defense Bud has fielded at VT. That season was the reason we transitioned from a 4-4 and made the rover a more traditional safety. A traditional Bud Foster defense that season and I think we return to the championship game.
I know it's slightly off topic lol but I'm not overly concerned with the QB position next year. The way I see it, if Brewer wins the job he should be better with another year in the system. And if not, then the QB who does win it should be an improvement over what should be an improved Brewer. The QB position should be improved next year at a minimum, the real question is how much of an improvement will it be by?
exactly, it's not like we're saying goodbye to LT3 and guessing between 5 unknowns like we were last season. We've got a known quantity Brewer and the expectation that if the coaches start someone instead of him, it will only be because that guy's a stud who straight up out played Brewer all spring and summer (at least enough to overcome any loyalty the coaches may feel for Brewer). I'm excited to see how it plays out.
Given that a lot of the losses were multifaceted, and that several stemmed from a lack of a run game, I'm not sure how much difference it would have made to throw in LT3, Randall, or even Tyrod. Now, if you plug in Mike Vick (a phenom), then we're a 1 loss team (that Miami game was brutal, Vick coulda narrowed the point spread, but Duke Johnson murdered us), which would've won us the coastal, advancing us at least to the Orange Bowl (in lieu of GT), if not the CFP. We lost a lot of very close games, but replacing Brewer with another good QB wouldn't have changed much. Only a game-changer like Vick would've made this a great season.
VT only losing to Miami? Throw in a win over FSU, and I give you CFP, with OSU on outside looking in. Not sure if they'd take TCU or give a rematch with the Bucs, though.
IMHO, a bigger impact would be to keep Searles for a second season. Brewers play improves on the back of a more consistent oline.
No need to replace the QB. Run game is better right off the start instead of having to wait 10 games and therefore play action passes work better and less pressure on the QB all around.