And the walls left around the state of Virginia are slowly falling.
http://hamptonroads.com/2015/01/penn-state-odu-will-host-camp-norfolk
The Penn State and Old Dominion football coaching staffs will jointly host a high school camp this spring in Norfolk, an event ODU coach Bobby Wilder says will bring dozens of highly-rated recruits to campus.
"This will help both programs," [ODU quarterbacks coach Ron Whitcomb] said. "Penn State likes to recruit this area and bringing their entire staff here can only help them."
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All I can say is ... ugh. Kind of wish ODU would work more with the good guys (or do we give them a cold shoulder?)
Holy shit, I'm still laughing!! Most perfectly used in context GIF ever?
Idk it could be something as simple as the fact that Penn State simply approached them about something like this first. Given what was said, I'm sure had Beamer and Co. suggested it they would have been all on board
Isn't there an NCAA rule that you can hold a football camp and bring the coaching staff as long as it is out of state? I believe there are rules against holding an in state camp with the school's coaching staff. If so then we can't actually have a camp in the 757.
http://espn.go.com/college-football/story/_/id/10998077/sec-coaches-want...
Nice digging Joe. Of course there's a loophole.
Damn Nittany Lions! Stop breaking our city wall!
So why can't we order a retaliatory strike by holding a camp with a smaller school in PA?
Id suggest a school in Florida or Georgia. Plenty of great players coming out of those two states
The closest equivalent would be Temple. I'll pass.
Perhaps right outside of Pittsburgh... since we seem to draw recruits from that particular part of the state...
Plus - there would be nothing better than punching WVU, Pitt, and Penn State in the stomach in their recruiting hotbed...
Bingo!
missing how this helps ODU in any way
I'm guessing that it pulls in more recruits for them to evaluate and if those kids don't get bigger offer it gives them a better chance at getting them? Either that or $.
thanks to both. I am going to say money must be it. I don't see anyone that is getting invites to a Penn State camp having ODU as their fall back.
Plenty of kids that won't get schollys to Penn State or any other D1 school will be staying home to go to college. ODU to pick those guys.
I guess my point is that I am not sure why PSU would have anyone there that doesn't have at least an outside chance at a scholarship with them. And those that are playing at that level would likely pick teams that are closer to that competition level, which isn't ODU. I would be interested if they got anyone new that they didn't have on their radar in the first place from this camp.
They needed a facility. ODU probably also wanted a camp to improve their own ability to assess and recruit.
These players won't just be coming from Tidewater, they'll be from all over the place - NC, MD, Delaware as well as VA.
Proximity to resort locations mean Mom and Dad get to drop the kids off and have a beach vacation.
sorry, feeling I haven't stated my point clearly enough.
If college football were tiered into 5 tiers, I see PSU as a Tier 1 program and ODU as tier 5. (no offense to any ODU fans/alumni).
I get the feeling that this is going to be mostly kids that are pursuing PSU and maybe ODU commits. I doubt that there will be an open invitation for kids all over the talent spectrum just because of sheer numbers, but also at these camps generally you want similar caliber of players there so you can really assess them against the kind of talent they are likely to face. So the level of kids that ODU are after or able to get would be quite far below that of PSU (again no offense). And since there are a limited number of spots at the camp and this is clearly a PSU play into recruiting hotbed, most of the kids, I expect, will be those that would be closer to PSU level. And those that don't garner an offer from PSU are more likely to go to a school in tier 2 and 3, and not tier 5.
Again, I get the money and I really don't care if ODU host it with PSU. I just don't see what, beyond money, ODU is getting out of this. And would really be interested if there was a kid that came to this camp with dreams of PSU, didn't get an offer there and instead chose ODU.
Ah, I see.
I bet they do get those with D1 one dreams though.
Maybe good enough to play but not good enough to scholly.
Publicity and getting recruits on campus that wouldn't normally look at ODU. Theres likely a sweet payday coming from Penn State, too
Hey nittany lions:
Penn State, one of my all time favorites
We definitely need a response
Horse, we're gonna need you to undermine this somehow, someway.
I emailed the ACC office to ask for some clarification, but it seems like it is an ACC rule.
http://www.syracuse.com/orangefootball/index.ssf/2014/06/why_is_syracuse...
The emphasis is my own. If I am reading this right, unless ODU is prohibited from holding a camp outside of June / July, this could have been done in another month, like May.
Old Dominion can rightly go eff themselves.
Takes a special kind of douche to work out an agreement with an out of state school to come in and try to steal your kids. Its almost like ODU is hellbent on dropping UVa and VT down to their level, and they're going to bend over backwards to sabotage in state recruiting in the commonwealth any way they can do it to make it happen.
I have to admit that I didn't have a problem with ODU before, but now...
Seriously... I can't blame Penn St for agreeing to do this, its a very smart move. Old Dominion is the one whoring themselves out and deserve to be heavily criticized for it. For a long while I have heard these guys think they're going to be playing at the VT/UVa level within 5 to 10 years, so I almost guarantee they are so idiotic they think this is an equal opportunity partnership with Penn St. In reality, all they're doing is helping turn the commonwealth into an ad-hoc in state recruiting status for Penn St. Friggen Benedict Arnolds.
The ODU head coach's new nickname is "William Tecumseh Sherman."
Is he cutting a recruiting path through Georgia?
Okay, how about Sheridan?
Why is it bad for ODU to do this? I mean I understand your argument but who's to say if we had gone to them first with this idea then we would be the ones in this position? If anything it's our bad that we allowed this to happen by not being more proactive. Do you really expect any upstart program to say no to this type of proposition? That would be ridiculous if they said "No, we really want to have this special bond with VT so we're not going accept this generous offer for exposure." Lay off of them, they're just looking out for what they think is best for their program; which may or may not impact VT's.
For starters, we can't do it because its against ACC bylaws. Technically, it is also against NCAA bylaws, but Penn St and ODU worked out an agreement to actively circumvent the bylaws in place exploiting a loophole... a loophole that is not possible in the ACC.
ok I didn't know that. but my point still stands, they're doing what's best for them. Just like we do what's best for us, we decided we wanted to play at ODU for better exposure to the recruits in the 757 - that's looking out for our interests and it happens to be mutually beneficial.
Now the ECU scheduling you could argue is all about helping them because Eastern NC is definitely no recruiting hotbed.
We have been recruiting Virginia, and especially that region, with largely the same guys for 28 years now. We shouldn't need to play games out there to get exposure, and if we do, it speaks to just how badly our coaching staff is miserably failing at getting exposure to high school recruits in our own state. Just as UNC and NC State don't need to travel to Greenville to have kids exposed to their programs in the Eastern half of NC, we shouldn't need to travel to ODU to do the same in that region.
As for the agreement with Penn St, I completely blame ODU for doing it. What do they have to gain with this? Really, what do they have to gain? They're not getting any more exposure, people in that region already know about ODU. Its a money grab, that's all it is. Its a pure money grab, and ODU is doing it by whoring out their region to out of state schools. VT and UVa should rightfully be furious over this, and both schools should blacklist the Monarchs until the agreement ends.
So you're mad because ODU is trying to make money? More money leads to a better program, so they do have something to gain, something quite valuable actually.
I don't blame them for wanting to make money, its why they have the scheduling agreement with us. At the same time, while we're helping them out, there should be a reasonable expectation that we don't get stabbed in the back by them whoring their region out to out of state schools giving them unprecedented exposure to that region, in a move that will significantly impact our own ability to recruit that region in a negative way. There are other ways for them to make money other than dicking us over during a time where we're trying to help them out.
I guess I don't share your same vision on this. I don't see how ODU owes us anything. Quite honestly if we want to be a big boy program then we need to take on the big boy programs in recruiting. We've won battles against PSU before and we will again. Isn't competition supposed to make us all better?
Edit: grammar...ugh
ODU doesn't owe us anything. But Alum's original point is that we don't owe them anything either. We scheduled games with them at their home stadium to help them out, but we don't have to do that to help our own recruiting, so we should cancel those games or certainly cut back on the number of times we play them there if they are going to pull something like this. Maybe make it a 2 in Lane, 1 at ODU arrangement or something, but we shouldn't have given them so many scheduled contests at their place, and with this now happening that point is even more true.
There is literally no incentive for Virginia Tech to play ODU in football
1) It costs us money to play them
2) Its a game that hurts our strength of schedule
3) A win against them is meaningless, and a loss against them kills our season and helps an instate program get better
4) We don't need to play in the 757 to increase our exposure there. And if we do, then quite honestly our coaches are failing miserably at recruiting the most important part of Virginia
Assuming all of that is true then shame on us for scheduling them in the first place. I assume we had some sort of reason to do it and I can't imagine it was 100% to help them out. Again if that is the case then blame Weaver or VT, but I fail to see how ODU is wrong for looking out for their own interests.
Found an article about the matchup: http://hamptonroads.com/2013/11/odu-virginia-tech-agree-longterm-footbal... and 2 things stand out to me:
1)
2)
So clearly the admin thought there was a benefit here and/or Ballien is looking out for his old school.
It's already been established how much our staff has lost control of the 757. Adding games there can only help, and still does not hold us back from using any additional methods, if we were even going to use them anyway
I don't know, I see the incentive of playing there. To get real life exposure to people out there that may not have the money to travel to blacksburg to see a game. That's a big deal, that speaks much more to someone than just casually flipping to a VT game on tv. It may not pay immediate dividends but it very well could over the following 5-10 years. I think it's a good idea to put our program in a position to be the first game that kids from that area attend, which could in turn make them a childhood if not life long fan.
It gives 757 recruits an opportunity to play in their own backyard, where their friends and family can see them play in person without having to take a 5 hour drive. It's not necessarily about increasing exposure in Hampton Roads, it's more about giving players an opportunity to play and alumni to see a game in their hometown.
You're right, we shouldn't need to do that but again, why is that ODU's fault? If you're right about it being a "money grab" why is it a bad thing to be doing this for money? They're a young program who needs money... What allegiance to they owe us or uva?
They are getting more exposure because they're getting quality athletes on their campus in front of their coaches, who otherwise may not give them the time of day even though they're right in their back yard.
No one is saying ODU has no "right" to do this or that they might not have a good reason. But like any choice made in life there are actions and then reactions to things. The reaction from the VT AD should be to cancel the games scheduled to play at ODU.
I just feel like that's really petty and lacks the type of professionalism we'd like our University to have. But hey what do I know
Well that would cost us 3.5 mil so no I don't think that's the best reaction
We would easily make up those costs and then some simply by converting those games to home games in Lane. Ticket sales alone would more than make up the difference before the games were even played.
I bet we would have trouble lining up marquee programs to come to Blacksburg to play...schedules are built so far in advanced all across the country that we will probably have difficulty filling those slots with teams that would have enough draw to bring in the $3.5M to recoup whatever costs are associated with cancelling matchups with ODU
I'm not gonna lie, I'm not any happier about the series we scheduled with ODU than the next guy but we're stuck with it...not much point in arguing over it
You're talking just over a million a game to cancel and reschedule as home games. Even if we replaced them with games against the likes of William and Mary or Liberty we would recoup those funds and still come out with a profit by ticket sales alone.
I mean if WVU can cancel a game months before they have to play it and come out fine I think BT will be ok canceling one years in advance.
There is quite a LARGE contingent of Hokie fans in the 757! Maybe VT playing games there to address the fanbase as well!
I hope this is a joke. In state recruits are not obligated to us as is archaically thought here. ODU has done nothing wrong. Per NCAA rules they are not allowed to do this with us so choosing PSU is best for their school. Instead of complaining more about losing in state recruits how about we move to the 21st century and try to expand out of state as well. Since moving to FBS, ODU has scheduled 7 games with us for the next 10 years, as their first big FBS contract. They are not out to get us
Right and Wrong isn't as simple as what's allowed & not allowed.
So its wrong that ODU isn't looking out for Virginia Techs best interest? I'm failing to see where everyone is holding the moral higher ground
I think it's a brilliant move for both ODU and Penn State. Penn State will get exposure to Virginia talent and ODU will get to pitch the local, mid-range kids that are a stretch to play in the Big Ten, but aren't quite out of the reach of ODU. With that said, Virginia Tech is doing ODU a favor by playing at their place 3 times between 2018-2024. We should stop doing that. I think there are other, equally effective, ways to to get more VT exposure in the 757 without helping out ODU.
Yep... Completely agree with this.
With ODU pulling this stunt with Penn St, we should end our scheduling agreement with them. We are doing them a favor, only to see them schedule this kind of event with Penn St which has the potential to significantly negatively impact our future recruiting. Screw 'em.
You're acting extremely childish about this. Turning our back on 757 will only set us back further with them. You can either huff and puff about the decisions ODU has made or you can go out there and get your own exposure. If we cancel with ODU I don't think we have many other means for exposure, so getting these games at ODU are for the best
No, seriously... Fuck Old Dominion. They're actively trying to take our handout with the away games we have scheduled while at the same time deliberately bringing in out of state football factories to host football camps to get unprecedented exposure in the most fertile hotbed of talent in the commonwealth.
Screw that. You want the benefit and exposure from having us play in your home stadium 3x over a short period of time while you're still desperately trying to build a football brand? Fine, don't stab us in the back by actively putting on an event that makes recruiting for us significantly harder going forward. Douches
Thank god Whit has a more level head than you
This wasn't Whit, it was Weaver. While I'm not as upset as alum07, I agree that it's very stupid to play there so often. I don't think Whit would have signed this deal because it doesn't help Tech as much as a 3-1 or a 1-1 with a power5. You hate playing ecu so often? Odu is the new ecu on our schedule
Right but he wants whit to cancel the series. This is nothing like ecu. VT has no leverage. ODU knows the hotbed that they're sitting on. They don't need vt, they just need a p5 school to play. I'm sure uva, unc or psu would have gladly played them. We do however need them for the area. Those aren't handout games. They bennifit us to strengthen ties with local coaches. otherwise we're back to playing app st with the zero bennifit they provide
Nobody is breaking down the doors to schedule games at Old Dominion. Going there 3 times in quick succession for a program with the national/regional prestige that we do is absolutely a handout and is doing them a big favor. If we drop those games, I highly doubt they'll be finding anyone with a legitimate name to come in there and play. Even ECU has trouble scheduling home games with anyone good not named Virginia Tech. So yes, going there with the series we have scheduled is a massive favor we're doing for them. We have every right in the world to be pissed at the stunt they are pulling with PSU with the way we have legitimately gone out of our way to help them out.
Nobody was going after them when they were fcs. Now that they are fbs it's a whole new game. Penn st proof of that. Its not a coincidence that we didnt schedule them until they moved up. Ecu has absolutely nothing to offer anyone. ODU does.
ODU has nothing to offer us. If the Virginia Tech coaches can't recruit the 757 currently without scheduling a literally nothing program like ODU and giving them the favor of a number of home games, then they should all seriously be fired immediately.
This idea that playing games there helps with recruiting is a myth dispelled by the information age in which we live. However, having coaching camps is a much more effective way to attract recruits. ODU is trying to get VT and PSU to help them out, the difference being is we have already offered to help them out and they are screwing us in return. I am with Alum, tell the Monarchs to eat it. There is literally no downside for Penn St. in this arrangement, so I don't blame them for working on it.
Please show me where that has been dispelled. I wasn't able to find anything
This is like lending your friend a chainsaw and he brings it back with a dull chain and no gas. Penn St totally gets the better deal. ODU is building a stadium to hold 30,000 people, even if the ticket prices are the same as Lane and we get a split of ticket sales (which is not going to happen) we lose nearly 75% of the revenue (more including concessions) of having the game in Blacksburg. We are doing them a HUGE favor by scheduling there. They will sell out that game and probably raise ticket prices for it as well.
As far as recruiting benefits, our coaches have been in the 757 for 28 years, there cannot be much more to be gained by playing a game in a tiny stadium against a much more inferior opponent. Penn St however has few inroads to the 757. They basically don't have to sacrifice the revenue that comes from playing this small potatoes game and get all the access to coaches they would have otherwise had to spent 5-10 years building. This is definitely a good situation for ODU, but with all the help they are getting from PSU, they won't need ours for as long as we offered. Cut this back to a 2-1 home vs away and end it there.
It's like the old days. Penn State coming into Virginia for recruits.
James Franklin was going to go all-out to expand recruiting. With sanctions coming down and players being able to compete in post-season play, makes sense for him.
We are going up against anOSU, PSU, the entire SEC and other ACC schools. I say "bring it". The talent in the 757 is no secret and hoping guys go to VT because they have some state loyalty is a fools bet. Come and try to get em, we need to do the same. Can't be scared of competition.
Kevin Jones wasn't a bad get from PA if I remember correctly.
Steiney, Lil Beamer, Gray, Searels. Get the ax ready, time to chop some wood boys.
The Fullers, Evans, Hosely, Dadi, Maddy, I Ford, Cam, Shai, Facyson, kyshoen, boykin. Plenty of talent to be had out of state. Thats what the big boys do
Wouldn't February be a great time for our coaches to hold a clinic at say Jacksonville University (or U of North FL in Jacksonville)or Savannah St.? We have been doing pretty well with the few kids we pull out of FL...
We need to find Delray Beach University
FAU is close to Delray Beach, about 15 minutes south in Boca Raton
Oh DBU? That's in Blacksburg, VA.
Frank Beamer should just roll right up into that camp and do the Hokie Pokie right in front of all of the Penn State and ODU coaches. Then Bud can roll out of the car and punch them all in the neck.
seems like other schools like to use police departments to the advantage of their athletic programs. maybe we should find a way to banish these other staffs from The Commonwealth? *looking at you, Jimbo Fisher*
We need to drop ODU from the schedule. NOW.
If we don't want ODU to grow into a real threat, playing them and beating them over and over sends the message of who the real football team of Virginia is. We just can't let that backfire like that fable I've heard told about playing JMU on 5 days rest and losing.
They'll never be a threat so long as they're not in a P5 conf.
I agree - ODU will struggle to become a real threat without the major conference funding, but Penn State is a very real threat and ODU should not receive the benefits of playing us (money & exposure & opportunity to bring down the big boy in the state) if they are going to help re-open the door to Tidewater for PSU. Don't underestimate the power of the PSU brand - it hasn't been damaged as much as you think and they are doing a masterful job of creating a new narrative.
Disagree. They can be good enough to get kids that would otherwise be on our roster. I'm not talking top end recruiting. But every guy that plays for them that could play for us or provide depth hurts us. They don't have to be great to threaten our recruiting...see UVA.
The problem is that they can offer scholarships to players VT would like to have walk on, or offers at the last minute. Those "diamond in the rough" kind of guys that we could develop could be swayed by the thought of immediate playing time and a full ride all 4 years at ODU, even if they aren't as prestigious a program
There is way too much politics involved in the ODU series for Whit to cancel the series. Very similar to the politics that carried a UVA vote for Tech getting in to the ACC. That said, I dont see PSU benefiting from this camp as much as some of those outraged here seem to think. James Franklin has proven that he doesnt need a camp to get any player he wants to come play for him. ODU is doing what's best for their program. I imagine if we were to go back to 1987 and Joe Paterno had called Frank Beamer and proposed a joint camp, Frank probably would have jumped at the chance. Does playing ODU benefit us much? No. It really only hurts us if we dont win the games though. If we really wanted to do something like this than there is nothing stopping us from requesting a waiver from the ACC to use the same loophole. I guess the bigger question is why the ACC closed the loophole in the firat place if the other P5 conferences still have it open, allowing them a potential recruiting advantage over ACC schools.
A: Because the ACC isn't the most well run conference in collegiate athletics.