Whats Your College Team Worth?
To compile the numbers, Brewer analyzed each programs revenues and expenses and made cash-flow adjustments, risk assessments and growth projections for each school. The resulting figures represent what the teams might fetch if they could be bought and sold on the open market like professional teams.
Ohio State and Michigan top the list at $1B or more. 8 schools are valued at $700M or more.
ACC valuations are as follows
21 - Florida State - $325,740,000
23 - Virginia Tech - $308,510,000
29 - Clemson - $255,050,000
37 - Miami - $204,080,000
40 - NC State - $182,580,000
42 - Georgia Tech - $180,520,000
44 - Virginia - $159,340,000
48 - Syracuse - $137,570,000
50 - North Carolina - $133,980,000
62 - Boston College - $90,920,000
64 - Pittsburgh - $86,860,000
65 - Louisville - $84,230,000
71 - Duke - $47,210,000
72 - Wake Forest - $46,920,000
This is a very interesting exercise to think about. Seems to put us in a far more favorable spot than many want to believe, and kind of lends itself to support the argument that VT is no longer the small backwoods school in the mountains of Virginia.
What are your thoughts?
Comments
Never understood the argument that location would prevent Tech from competing for a national championship to begin with. Hell, we had the lead in the third quarter of a national championship game already.
Blacksburg is a small college town that is a little out of the way for some people, but in no way small or backwoods. Especially small. All you hear coming out of high school is how gigantic Tech is. Very little talk of it being in the middle of nowhere because it's not.
EDIT: "no way small" refers to the University itself
Especially since the university has over 30,000 students and is in the top 30 public universities in the country academically.
The location is not so important now as it once was, before the 90s and the communications revolution. Twitter, Internet, cable TV, cell phones.....
It was not so long ago that neighbors shared phone lines, even in cities. Party lines? You could not even guarantee you had a private conversation.
So distance from a population center very much mattered. Imagine the cost to go visit the 757 and how that communication cost has plummeted.
As for the small, military school, I see these figures for student population now but, it was not always that way. When did VT go coed compared to the other majors and when did we stop requiring cadet membership?
The difference is that it kept the attendance smaller than if we had open enrollment. The VT alumni is growing as we graduate new classes and the older classes begin to fade away. We had to grow facilities to accept a new influx of students and attract a different student.
As well many of the alumni from that era would voluntarily go into the military, who do not tend to make as much money as those going directly into civilian life which a degree in 1964 would place closer to the top of the pay scale.
These things had and continue to have an impact though lesser as the years pass. Eventually the class of 1964 will fade away except in our memories to eventually be supplanted in their role as the class of 1990, 2015, 2035.
I am sure you can find cases that oppose these thoughts but, that's the origination of the small school in the hills thought.
It fades into history more and more every year but, it's not completely gone. Not yet.
Do not forget another point as well. Many states have state school systems with satellite campuses. For example UGA has 2 satellites. These students are part of the UGA system and not included in the student body of 35,000 but many are Bulldog fans and become supporters by virtue of their status as UGA alumni.
VT has no such satellite support system. We do excellently, especially in light of these things. We'll do better in the future.
We do have some satellites, but not like those others. Architecture school in NoVA and I think a few smaller specialized ones in other parts of the state (do believe there is an equestrian school). Arlington has a VA Tech office building right in the main heart of Ballston. Not sure it's function, but Arlington is crawling with Hokies anyway.
Yep, VT is everywhere.
http://www.maps.vt.edu/ (see "Extended Campus Locations")
While not like the university system of other states, VT has a big footprint across the state.
It's also important to realize VT's presence without physical campuses. Yes, there is a Northern Virginia campus, but there's also the entire network of schools that support the Commonwealth Graduate Engineering Program. That's a partnership between George Mason, UVA, VCU, VT, and ODU to offer engineering classes at various locations around the state that support each other in an effort to get a graduate degree. I've taken a couple classes through it and it's more or less an extended campus using another school's facilities.
I'm talking about a comparison to other school systems, not agricultural extension offices.
Look at places like U. of Texas
http://www.utsystem.edu/institutions
10 universities and 6 health institutions.
That's a lot of support while we have a few affiliations and extension offices like the Roanoke Med school affiliation with Carillion hospitals. At it's peak that will generate a couple hundred students at a time that are grad students and may already be VT alumni.
It's not even close.
PSU has 24. I think they just bought the medical school in Hershey, too, as well as another law school, like Emily Dickinson College or whatever.
And that doesn't even include the Pa State System of Higher education which includes another 14 or so.
When I went to school there, we were informed that although we are not officially part of Penn St., it's because we were all Div II and everything transferred, it was more a legal distinction than anything else.
http://www.passhe.edu/Pages/default.aspx
Going off of that Penn State operates two law schools now. They bought out Farliegh Dickenson (I think that's what it was called) and they also started a law school several years before that.
I'm not disagreeing with what you're saying but that UT reference isn't a great one. That's just the State of Texas university system, UTEP is not the same as UT-Austin it is its own university with it's own sports. It's the same as in NC with UNC-Chapel Hill, UNC-Charlotte, UNC-Greensboro and others. I don't think any of the alumni of UTEP would count themselves as UT-Austin alumni. Virginia just doesn't have a system like that.
Yes, I agree and, thank you for recognizing the difference between illustrating a point and providing an example.
A lot of schools like NYU are actually building extended campuses here in Shanghai. If anyone wants to speak to President Sands I would be happy to head that up for him.
You speak of the campuses in Atlanta and Lawrenceville. Interestingly, the two other campuses in Tifton and Griffin are considered "main" campuses even though they're nowhere near Athens.
I would say that was a long time ago.
In terms of changes in cost of communications and it's capabilities, it has not been that long.
I bet party lines still exist in some places, though not many.
Most people here that graduated college in the mid 80's probably grew up with them.
the change in the ability to communicate and the cost and time cost has been an enormous boon to level that playing field for schools like us.
I get what your saying. I was just making a smartass comment. I remember in the 90s having to have a stop watch when talking on the phone to anyone outside of your area code because the rates were so high. Then the phone wars started (similar to what's happening now with cell phone companies) and we all got free long distance. Hmmmm......Maybe your on to something. Just a few years after free long distance we were playing for a national championship.
I can drive 65 mph on basically all interstate right up to the doorstep of a university that serves over 30,000 students.
For fun, take a spin to Western Carolina... that's some backwoods there. If you miss that one turn past the old church that burned down 100 years ago, you in deep trouble.
You've clearly never been to Lee county or Wise county in VA have you?
As a matter of fact, my wife has family in Norton.
I haven't, but I'm fascinated by how the definitions of "backwoods," "rural," or "remote" change depending what part of the country you're from.
Lee county has a population density of 54 people per square mile.
Wise county has a population density of 103 people per square mile.
The county where I did my undergrad had a population density of 2.7 people per square mile (and the adjacent county had a population density of 0.5).
It doesn't, that's not what I was getting at. I just found it curious he would use NC as an example when VA has plenty of backwoods areas of its own. Apologies if I came off as a smart ass. I grew up in WNC and far SWVA is similar but at the same time feels very different to me, I guess it's all in what you're used to.
Didn't think you were a smartass at all. My point is just that what people near the East Coast call remote and isolated, is what people in parts of the Western United States would call suburban and conjested.
My point is kind of off topic, just an observation that I find interesting.
True, but in many parts of Appalachia though you may not be 100 miles from the next closest town as can be the case out West, you'll certainly feel like it.
And, I wasn't implying that western NC was any more rural than SW VA. My point, was that VT, while not located in a large urban area, is very accessible.
I used Western Carolina University as an example of a destination that is not very accessible. i.e. No major highway access.
Ah I see, yep thats a great point.
In a nutshell: pre-Vick graduates have difficulty accepting that this is no longer pre-Vick Virginia Tech. We are an emerging power in college football, and if (when) we right the ship we will be a force to contend with.
Maybe it's because I'm a (relatively) new graduate but when I was growing up in Virginia, I never thought of Virginia Tech as a "small backwoods schools"...if you talk to the students today, there is a giant disconnect between that mentality and Tech's reputation currently.
And yet any time the topic of "how good can Virginia Tech be" is brought up, our location and size is routinely used as reason #1 to why we will never, ever be a national power.
I agree with everyone above. I think its no longer a valid argument. Virginia Tech has become the premier football school in the commonwealth, and for a vast majority of the country has a more recognizable brand than any other school in this state. Heck, when I went on my honeymoon in 2013 to Italy, I got a 'Go Hokies' in every single city I visited. And yet, people still think we're this tiny military institution that should just be happy that someone knows who we are.
I didn't even realize (along with the dozens of freshman I was friends with back in 2006) that Virginia Tech even had a Corps of Cadets until I made it to campus. Nobody, I repeat, nobody from my generation thinks of VT as a "tiny military institution". We're neither tiny nor military....that's exactly the disconnect I'm talking about. Maybe the old alumni think of VT that way but the majority of people under 30 don't believe anything close to that narrative.
and the "our location and size is routinely used as reason #1 to why we will never, ever be a national power" of course holds no water. State College is in the middle of nowhere. Tuscaloosa and Auburn are in the middle of nowhere. Athens is the middle of nowhere. Clemson is in the middle of nowhere.
I don't know who these people you speak about college football but (pardon by frenchwasp60) they don't know what the fuck they're talking about.
State College is, indeed, in the middle of nowhere. Pennsyltucky right outside town, right over them thar hills.
Clemson isn't in the middle of nowhere if you're from South Carolina, it's got Greenville and Spartanburg right there. If you're not from SC (like me) it's isolated as isolated gets. Auburn is worse. Lots of schools are in college towns, that's why they're called college towns. There's no reason you can't be successful at a high level because of your location.
Do you really think the coaches at Clemson are telling their recruits, "Come to Clemson, we're only a short drive away from Spartansburg"...if I grew up in SC, I would laugh in Dabo face if they gave me that line.
I meant that more for getting fans there, it's an easy drive. The only attraction of Spartanburg is that Frank Underwood came from there...then he left because its Spartanburg.
Hey now....
Underwood is from Gaffney.
Hey, so am I. (granted the hospital was located north of the border)
He left. I left. Chad Morris left. Wherever it is its not worth it.
(Reply to Illinois Hokie)
I don't think that the school in general is thought of this way in any other sense than with recruiting. How many times every year is it said that the recruit wants to be in a bigger city. Is that just excuses made for missing recruits or are recruits really attracted to the bright lights of the city proper? debatable for sure, but I certainly think that it matters to at least a small percentage of them, perhaps more likely with recruits that are coming from big metro areas themselves.
Again, I don't know if that is really true or not but it's been said every year in regards to recruiting on this website and probably every Hokie fansite.
I just want to know what percent of #LOLUVA's value comes from Zima sales.
Drink: http://www.thekeyplay.com/content/2015/january/13/ot-wsj-analyzes-intrin...
3 minutes before you :P
while this may be true, which one actually has comments?
I just find it shocking we'd be valued higher than Clemson. Not bad.
I think a lot of these numbers need to be looked at in relation to the size of the universities and in the context of success as a football program. We have about 8,000 more students than Clemson, which means a larger alumni base to draw money from and extend the Virginia Tech brand. Here's the ACC schools by students, with value rank in parenthesis:
1 (1). Florida State 41,773
2.(5) North Carolina State 34,767
3.(2) Virginia Tech 29,684
4.(9) North Carolina 29,390
5.(11) Pittsburgh 28,649
6.(6) Georgia Tech 23,109
7.(12) Louisville 22,529
8.(3) Clemson 21,303
9.(8) Syracuse 21,267
10.(4) Miami 15,657
11.(7) Virginia 14,898
12.(13) Duke 14,600
13.(10) Boston College 14,359
14.(14) Wake Forest 7,432
When considering population and football success, the only real surprises is how little Louisville is worth, especially when you consider the success they have had on the football field over the last decade. You can see how the other program's value fluctuates more predictably relative to their football success.
With their resurgence over the last few seasons and the renovations to their stadium, I would expect Duke to start climbing up the list, but the rest will probably remain constant.
Dammit Wake get your sh!t together
so, what you're saying is that our football program is worth about twice what LOLUVa's is? Sounds about right...
Seems to me we should be worth about eleven times what UVA is worth...
Or perhaps 38 times bro...
Louisville may not be "worth" as much as us, but I bet they bring a lot more money than us. Not only with their MBB success and recent football success, but isn't John from Papa Johns kinda like their Phil Knight?
he's like Phil Knight only drunker
Interesting analysis - I agree VT should be top quartile of the ACC but think Miami, Clemson and possibly Syracuse would be above us given national fan base, historical impact (e.g., national championships, heismans, movies about the program, etc.) and national marketing. E.g., Lately ESPN's PR machine around "the U" probably generates a lot of national attention and value.
Would also be interesting if they had done this a few years ago (2006-10) to see how perceived value of VT and FSU has shifted based upon recent performance.
Fun stuff. The offseason has officially begun.
Syracuse? Miami?
I think you have a mistaken impression of the relative impact of certain variables (recent performance, historical impact, etc) on current and future revenues and thus "value".
Hey I'll take it!
While I found it interesting that our estimated value is above USCw's and within spitting distance of Florida State, it does make it very clear how hard it is for us to play for National Championships.
I looked at the average numbers of each player in the BCS National Championship (I excluded this year's playoffs and championship - it didn't change the numbers much anyways). There were 16 years and 32 teams involved in those national championships, including us.
The average value of a program in that national championship game was ~$621,838K. Which is just a touch below LSU's hypothetical value (won 2 championships and lost 1 during the BCS era). Also, more than double our hypothetical value.
The current revenue is even more telling, as the contenders average ~$89,896K a year in revenue. This is pretty comparable to Ohio State's revenue and we don't really need to cover their accomplishments. By comparison, our revenue is ~$53,000K.
To be frank, these kind of numbers only support one of my favorite statements - that I don't expect us to be able to win a national championship in the next 15 years. It simply takes such an absurd amount of money, talent, and luck to put it all together on one of those magical runs.
That's not to say that we'll never win a national championship. We've had a magical run like that before and we were a coin flip away from winning in the third quarter. But championships tend to be built over the course of decades in this mature age of college football. There are no more untapped masses of recruits for some school to upend the landscape ala Miami. It takes decades of 8-10~ win seasons, competition for league titles, and some serious wealth. Unfortunately, we've probably got a bunch more of all of the above before we fill that trophy case.
But hey, I'll have fun watching anyways. If I wanted to root for a team because of national titles, I'd be a Bama/OSU/FSU/OU/USC fan and a terrible person.
I'm going to disagree on untapped recruiting grounds statement although you are right as far as the United States. But as is being seen in basketball and the Toronto area, there are always more places to recruit. Ziggy Ansah went to BYU from Ghana. Canada plays football and many countries play rugby. Some team is going to start recruiting internationally and surprise everyone.
I mean, over the past decade about 75% of our tennis team (and almost all of our starters) were foreigners. But that's not at all uncommon for the sport.
I meant football specifically. Our swim team recruits really well internationally which was huge in our ACC Championship. All schools recruit internationally for tennis. Basketball coaches are slowly increasing their international reach but only Saint Mary's has really found a consistent region to get guys from. There are guys out there who can play college football who didn't grow up in the U.S. Florida State has a commit who is from Nigeria thanks to LaVar Arrington http://espn.go.com/college-sports/recruiting/football/story/_/id/1213411...
I think it takes a lot of luck no matter what. I think having extra money helps take a little bit of the luck out of it.
Dammit Duke and Wake, get your sh!t together.
159 million and change for UVA's football program?
How bout we'll just keep the trophy clean and call it even. I don't carry cash.
I'm gonna guess that the lack of an ACC Network -- and the future revenue stream -- is what is keeping ACC schools down the list compared to BIG, SEC & Pac 10 schools. Add in that revenue stream and ACC schools probably all jump up at least a few notches on the list. VT probably jumps into the teens.
Highly possible. Compare FSU (#21) and Florida (#5).
Similar on-field performance, stadium size, and state growth. Leaving the possibilities in difference to cash flow, revenues and financial information.
Florida's revenue is $99.5M (7th). FSU's revenue is $68.1M (20th). Where does Florida get the extra $31.4M in revenue? Can't just be merchandise.
South Carolina & Clemson too.