this kind of call always frustrates me about basketball
the player with the ball jumps at the same moment the defensive player sets his feet to establish position. Typically it's called a charge, but in my opinion it should be a blocking foul. The offensive player cannot stop or change direction once they've leapt into the air, and encouraging defenders by giving them the call leads to more frequent injuries.
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Big call that went against us. It's a shame that an excellent pass and great hustle from JVZ turned into a momentum changer. I have watched the video countless times and call could have gone either way. Defender puts his hands out on JVZ anticipating the charge which could have been called a foul and a huge lift for Hokies and still not sure if defender got there and was set before JVZ slammed him. I think this foul is called on the defender in most situations in order to protect the player in the air. Any refs out there to give an opinion after watching the video?
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It was indeed a charge. However, you almost always see that kind of play called a block, especially when the dunker is at home. It's just too huge of a play for most refs to make such a controversial call. But, in this case, it was the right call.
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It's one of the toughest calls for the referee in any case let alone this one. The key is whether or not the defender is in a set position when the offensive player leaves the ground. If he isn't then he's essentially undercutting the guy and its a block. Also any movement after being set (I.e. raising your arms to initiate contact) negates being set because the defender starts the contact which means its a block. Your feet don't have to be set to take a charge, but it's who initiates contact.
As some guys below said this call could've gone either way but you have to call something. You can't just let it go. Personally I think the UVA defender initiated the contact but its very close
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It is very close. It looks like he might not have set himself until JVZ took off, but either way we lost because they couldn't miss from 3. Hopefully JJ can figure something out.
And is Robert Brown the worst player we've ever given a scholarship to?
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You can't swallow the whistle on that play, there's just too much contact. I'm sure most coaches would rather have a call go against them if that means the refs are keeping the game under control (which the refs last night were pretty bad at, but not because of this charge call).
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You see dunks like this all the time, though, that go uncalled. Remember Deron Washington teabagging Paulus? That could have been a charge (could have been sexual assault as well).
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My fault for not being specific. The second one was not a charge. But early in the first half. A similar play happened where Deron did stick his entire groin in his face and plowed him and they called a block. Probably the toughest call in basketball, but I believe Van Zegren's should have been a block or a no-call.
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01 Robert Brown g 7-15 0-1 4-7 2 4 6 3 18 0 1 1 1 31
This is Brown's stats from the OK State game. 18 points on 7 for 15 shots, 6 rebounds, 1 turnover, 1 block, 1 steal in 31 minutes. If he does this every night, we win most games. What is the difference? Of course, Eddie also had 12 rebounds, 15 points, 4 assists, only 2 turnovers, 2 steals in 34 minutes in that game which we won by 10 points against a pretty good OK State team.
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Once the first half ended with the foul margin greatly in our favor, this is exactly how I saw the second half playing out. It was a B rate group out there, but you have to still play your game.
Also, from the gif it looks as if Will Johnston cutting to the basket causes the guard to be there to take the charge/block
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That's as close a call as I can remember watching when it is slowed down. And that's the luxury we have, to see in slow motion and replayed several times. That's one where if you were on defense, you would definitely expect to get the call. I think its close, but I think Kevin is on to something: the defender had his feet set, but he put his arms out and he jumped up slightly to initiate contact. Think I would call a block in live action, but it looks much closer to a charge on a replay.
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in slow motion he really isnt set. Maybe his feet are initially planted when he reaches a defensive stance but as Joey elevates so does the defenders body and you will notice the defender almost elevates to his "tippy toes". However in real time its a bang bang call and will always be a 50/50 on which way it goes.
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i'm not sure that the defensive player established position before the offensive player could change direction. could have a been a no-call in my opinion.
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Comments
Sadly ...
I still think it was a good call on the charge. :-(
Now that I've seen the replay
instead of seeing it live from the opposite end of the court, I must say I agree...
this kind of call always frustrates me about basketball
the player with the ball jumps at the same moment the defensive player sets his feet to establish position. Typically it's called a charge, but in my opinion it should be a blocking foul. The offensive player cannot stop or change direction once they've leapt into the air, and encouraging defenders by giving them the call leads to more frequent injuries.
Charge or not?
Big call that went against us. It's a shame that an excellent pass and great hustle from JVZ turned into a momentum changer. I have watched the video countless times and call could have gone either way. Defender puts his hands out on JVZ anticipating the charge which could have been called a foul and a huge lift for Hokies and still not sure if defender got there and was set before JVZ slammed him. I think this foul is called on the defender in most situations in order to protect the player in the air. Any refs out there to give an opinion after watching the video?
Charge/Block
It was indeed a charge. However, you almost always see that kind of play called a block, especially when the dunker is at home. It's just too huge of a play for most refs to make such a controversial call. But, in this case, it was the right call.
It's one of the toughest calls for the referee in any case let alone this one. The key is whether or not the defender is in a set position when the offensive player leaves the ground. If he isn't then he's essentially undercutting the guy and its a block. Also any movement after being set (I.e. raising your arms to initiate contact) negates being set because the defender starts the contact which means its a block. Your feet don't have to be set to take a charge, but it's who initiates contact.
As some guys below said this call could've gone either way but you have to call something. You can't just let it go. Personally I think the UVA defender initiated the contact but its very close
It is very close. It looks like he might not have set himself until JVZ took off, but either way we lost because they couldn't miss from 3. Hopefully JJ can figure something out.
And is Robert Brown the worst player we've ever given a scholarship to?
Yes.
We tend to let our "worst" players transfer and then they shine at the school they go to (See Garland, Tyrone and Thorns, Hank)
How about just swallowing the whistle for once? No reason to call anything there.
That is the kind of situation you either call a blocking foul or you swallow the whistle, as pbowman69 said. You can't take away a dunk like that.
Swallowing the whistle
You can't swallow the whistle on that play, there's just too much contact. I'm sure most coaches would rather have a call go against them if that means the refs are keeping the game under control (which the refs last night were pretty bad at, but not because of this charge call).
You see dunks like this all the time, though, that go uncalled. Remember Deron Washington teabagging Paulus? That could have been a charge (could have been sexual assault as well).
Deron's dunk
Deron's shouldn't have been a charge, they didn't even make contact. Well, I guess one thing made contact....
Paulus
Yeah, they never even touched each other. Paulus flopped as they are seemingly taught to do at duke.
My fault for not being specific. The second one was not a charge. But early in the first half. A similar play happened where Deron did stick his entire groin in his face and plowed him and they called a block. Probably the toughest call in basketball, but I believe Van Zegren's should have been a block or a no-call.
01 Robert Brown g 7-15 0-1 4-7 2 4 6 3 18 0 1 1 1 31
This is Brown's stats from the OK State game. 18 points on 7 for 15 shots, 6 rebounds, 1 turnover, 1 block, 1 steal in 31 minutes. If he does this every night, we win most games. What is the difference? Of course, Eddie also had 12 rebounds, 15 points, 4 assists, only 2 turnovers, 2 steals in 34 minutes in that game which we won by 10 points against a pretty good OK State team.
Clearly he should have
Paulus'd him.
Fouls
Once the first half ended with the foul margin greatly in our favor, this is exactly how I saw the second half playing out. It was a B rate group out there, but you have to still play your game.
Also, from the gif it looks as if Will Johnston cutting to the basket causes the guard to be there to take the charge/block
Tight
That's as close a call as I can remember watching when it is slowed down. And that's the luxury we have, to see in slow motion and replayed several times. That's one where if you were on defense, you would definitely expect to get the call. I think its close, but I think Kevin is on to something: the defender had his feet set, but he put his arms out and he jumped up slightly to initiate contact. Think I would call a block in live action, but it looks much closer to a charge on a replay.
in slow motion he really isnt set. Maybe his feet are initially planted when he reaches a defensive stance but as Joey elevates so does the defenders body and you will notice the defender almost elevates to his "tippy toes". However in real time its a bang bang call and will always be a 50/50 on which way it goes.
i'm not sure that the defensive player established position before the offensive player could change direction. could have a been a no-call in my opinion.