Traditionally, Frank Beamer likes to recruit within a six-hour drive of Blacksburg. This quote is from 2011.
"Our recruiting right now is within about six hours of Blacksburg, and I think that's perfect," Beamer said. "I think we can get the talent we need to win a national championship within six hours of Blacksburg and then their family comes with them on the recruiting trip, they come to games, kids can get home. I just think in every way that's a good thing. Now in special cases we'll go into Ohio or Florida or wherever, but there's got to be a connection to Virginia Tech, a reason why we'd do that."
Here is a map of that area which assumes there is a straight road from Blacksburg to any point inside, and travel speed is >= 65 mph on average. (Note: These are unreasonable assumptions, but for sake of argument it is a good estimate.)
Obviously, Tech has signed players from outside the circle. Atlantic in Delray Beach, Florida (Brandon Flowers, David Clowney, Jayron Hosley, Mark Leal, Luther Maddy, and Dadi Nicolas) has been a pipeline for the Hokies.
Andy Bitter wrote a great piece about the new offensive coaches with respect to recruiting. It is full of insightful quotes.
[J.C. Shurburtt of 247Sports] On Grimes: "Jeff Grimes is a guy that has the reputation for going across the country and landing offensive linemen. Whether it's Colorado or Arizona, he scopes mostly in the west, he's got some connections out there. He'll go anywhere to find linemen. And that's good, because in the state of Virginia, it's great for skill guys, it's great for running backs, even a good-moving defensive lineman, and it's really good for linebackers. But o-line, you have maybe one or two really elite, elite guys per year.
Look at Grimes' recruiting history via Rivals.com, and be amazed.
| Team | Year | Player | Position | Rivals.com Stars | State |
|---|---|---|---|---|---|
| Colorado | 2008 | Bryce Givens | OL | 4 | Denver, CO |
| Colorado | 2008 | Max Tuioti-Mariner | OL | 4 | Corona, CA |
| Auburn | 2010 | Kenneth Carter | DT | 4 | Greenville, AL |
| Auburn | 2010 | Shon Coleman | OL | 5 | Olive Branch, MS |
| Auburn | 2010 | Roszell Gayden | OL | 4 | Visalia, CA |
| Auburn | 2010 | Brandon Mosley | TE | 4 | Coffeyville, KS |
| Auburn | 2010 | Craig Sanders | DE | 4 | Ariton, AL |
| Auburn | 2010 | Chad Slade | OL | 3 | Moody, AL |
| Auburn | 2010 | Jawara White | LB | 3 | Troy, AL |
| Auburn | 2011 | Reese Dismukes | OL | 4 | Spanish Fort, AL |
| Auburn | 2011 | Thomas O'Reilly | OL | 3 | Marietta, GA |
| Auburn | 2011 | Greg Robinson | OL | 4 | Thibodaux, LA |
| Auburn | 2011 | Christian Westerman | OL | 4 | Chandler, AZ |
| Auburn | 2012 | Will Adams | OL | 3 | Tyrone, GA |
| Auburn | 2012 | Shane Callahan | OL | 4 | Parker, CO |
| Auburn | 2012 | Jordan Diamond | OL | 4 | Chicago, IL |
| Auburn | 2012 | Alex Kozan | OL | 4 | Castle Rock , CO |
| Auburn | 2012 | Robert Leff | OL | 3 | Fairhope, AL |
| Auburn | 2012 | Patrick Miller | OL | 4 | West Palm Beach, FL |
| Auburn | 2012 | Avery Young | OL | 4 | Palm Beach Gardens, FL |
His west coast success stands out.
"So if you're Virginia Tech, maybe you need to kind of expand your horizons looking for offensive linemen. [...] And I think Jeff Grimes is the kind of guy who can get that done for them, of the new coaches."
Being able to spot recruit talented offensive linemen would no doubt fill a void on the roster. More than anything, dominate offensive lines have kept Tech from winning marquee match-ups. It's obvious Shurburtt thinks highly of Grimes, who said this.
When I worked with Dirk Koetter with Boise State and Arizona State, he was really the first guy that told me to do that. He said, 'Hey Grimey, you've got your recruiting area, but you go sign the four best linemen that you can sign this year. That's the No. 1 thing that you've got to do.' So I'm going to be really involved with those guys wherever they are."
At their introductory press conference, Beamer noted the staff hasn't finalized recruiting responsibilities. It looks like in addition to his Virginia territory, Grimes will seek out the best linemen he can find nationally. That is good news.
Comments
completely agree
with J.C. Shurburtt, and I definitely took notice when Grimes said that. I would say that the Virginia talent pool of skill positions combined with the 6-hour rule was the biggest argument in favor of VT changing offensive philsophies.
Grimes' experience and approach is just what we need to get back to Beamer's preferred m.o.
Also, I have to believe that recruits will and do respond to the fact that he looks like he can still play and has a winning, intense attitude.
I cant wait
To let Grimes loose on the nation and pull in top prospects. The offensive line has been whats holding us back since the past forever
wow
He got two 4 star guys to come to Colorado
I wish I had the link
I read somewhere that our position coaches will be highly involved in recruiting their position. So Leoffler will be recruiting QBs (regardless of location), Grimes will be recruiting linemen (regardless of location), etc. I forget what positions it applied to, but I'll look for the article.
Location, location, location.
It will be nice to see guys go out to other places to find the pieces they need.
Yes yes yes yes yes
Wow what a notion, go get the best players you can no matter where they live. I love this addition!!
I think we can be successful with recruiting mainly in our "6 hour radius", however it seems like in the past we have been a piece or two away from having a special team. Maybe going outside our comfort zone in recruiting will finally complete everything
Just looking at the 2014 target list, most of the players are around Virginia, NC, and SC (A LOT from South Carolina). However, we have yet to see Loeffler, Grimes, and Moorehead actually target some prospects. I think we're already starting to see the boundaries expand given David Cornwell's (Oklahoma) offer. Over the next two months we should see recruits start popping up outside of the typical boundaries.
Elite Programs recruit coast to coast. Stanford has a commitment from a VA QB. Alabama has recruits from NJ, NY, Utah, Pennsylvania. Not a lot outside their 6 hour radius, but the pieces to the puzzle. If we can start recruiting the 4 and 5 stars players and developing like we do the 3 and 4 stars, this program will be on the upside.
SC Talent
I have lived in the Upstate of SC now for 7 years and can tell you that there is a large talent pool here. Clemson and South Carolina both struggle though to keep these guys in state it seems.
What Huh?
Why would you EVER limit where you recruit? That is a horrible idea in the first place. I love CFB but man after hearing he said that I had a face/palm moment. Look at the rosters for the top football schools in the nation and they are filled with talent from all over. Even SEC schools go after the best.
I think it has to do with your odds of getting a recruit. I mean, if you feel like your chance of landing someone is far greater in the 6hr limit, and you're confident you can win with those guys, then you spend your resources there. I've always assumed that CFB isn't opposed to getting guys from outside that circle, he just realizes that you get more bang for your recruiting buck (both money and time the coaches spend doing it) inside of it, so he focuses there.
I can understand the notion of not spending to much time and money outside of the comfort zone where you know you can win recruits. But if you never step outside of that area on a somewhat consistant basis you never know what you might be able to accomplish. Our scheduling hasn't helped the last few years on getting our name out either though. Better scheduling with the new coaching changes should help recruiting overall moving forward.
agreed
logistics also plays a big role here. A 6 hour drive from VT allows the staff opportunity to make a trek with multiple visits within certain windows of time. You may want a kid from Ottowa, KS but flying out there to meet him costs us a lot of money versus visiting a kid in High Point, NC...then Spartanburg then Columbia, etc. The talent contained within this radius is also very good usually as well.
This is not to say we should be opposed to going out there to get guys like Darren Evans (Indiana) but time is as crucial as the money we spend. Giving Grimes the leeway to really focus on the guys he wants, wherever he wants may be the answer to some of that. However, extending that radius for everyone seems foolhardy to me. We build and have created these pipelines in high schools and areas for a reason.
You have to temper your expectations. At the end of the day Virginia Tech does not have SEC pull. Jetting around the country trying to pull in recruits is kind of like the offense last year. Bigger and more diverse, but not as specialized. I would rather them be great at bringing in the talent that is here than waste valuable recruiting time and resources trying to pull in kids from the opposite coast. That isnt to say that if there is a connection somewhere or a real shot at a kid you shouldn't take it though.
(Grimes is probably the exception though, I would give him free reign to go wherever the hell he wants to pull in monster linemen)
I wouldnt be the least bit suprised that Weaver and finances play some sort of role.
Very few teams truly recruit nationally
It's not that easy. ND does it. Ohio State does. Bama does under Saban. Michigan does. Most schools recruit either near their school or specific geographic areas (FL, TX, CA).
SEC schools can "go after the best" because most of the best players are in the south. Here's Florida's commit list for this year:
http://espn.go.com/college-sports/football/recruiting/school/_/id/57/cla...
A guy from VA, a guy from MI, and then lots of guys from FL and GA. Here's Georgia's recruits: http://espn.go.com/college-sports/football/recruiting/school/_/id/61/cla...
The farthest north they go is NC. LSU's recruits: http://espn.go.com/college-sports/football/recruiting/school/_/id/99/cla...
A little more spread out, but still mostly the deep south. The wider the net you cast, the harder it is to get prospects.
Take a look at the schools you mentioned.
Those schools have one thing in common: BRAND. Michigan, Texas, Alabama, and Notre Dame have heavy brand recognition that is universally known. That is a big time help.
It was how RichRod was able to lure "Shoelace" Robinson from Florida to run his run-version spread.
Of course, it also help that with the recent success from the SEC that elite athletes are staying near home, and playing for the best of the best. Hell, look at Ole Miss! They are reeling in recruits like Ron Cherry giving out the business.
Texas doesn't really recruit nationally though
You could argue that they don't because they don't have to and you wouldn't be wrong, but they recruit mostly Texas kids. Being a brand helps, but Florida and Georgia are brands and they don't really go after kids out west (again, partially due to not needing to do that). There are a handful of blue bloods that can pull it off, and VT isn't there yet. What VT does have is a state that is growing and producing Division 1 talent.
I'd say a big part of why Robinson went to Michigan was because of RichRod's offense. RichRod also had experience recruiting Florida from his days at WVU.
http://businessofcollegesports.com/2012/01/23/conference-recruiting-expe...
Alabama spent nearly $1M in 2012 on football recruiting. VT spent $1M TOTAL amongst all their sports. Recruiting nationally is not cheap at all. Bama, ND, etc. can afford to go after anyone and not every school has that kind of cash.
I do find it somewhat ironic that everyone is talking about how VT needs to recruit other states when the 2014 class of VA players is supposed to be the best crop ever. Just looking at this current class according to Rivals, VT missed out on VA's top 4 players but still landed 12 of the top 30 (all of whom are at least 3 stars). It's probably not a stretch to think VT could have landed more if they had more open scholarships. VT in 2014 will have more openings for more talent. While VT should expand their net some in order to chase the top talent they need to win a title (which appears to be offensive linemen, VA for whatever reason doesn't produce a lot of those) they are able to get 85-90% of what they need from what they are doing.
Assuming Moorehead becomes at least....
...a satisfactory coach, it's worth noting that we really don't have any weak recruiters anymore. Even Foster has dramatically improved over the years and does very well in NOVA and spot recruiting defensive studs. He's the weakest we have.
MOC was a bad recruiter. Sherman was mediocre. Newsome, of course, was brought in as an ace recruiter and (FriendofTyrod'sDad) and did bring in some good players in the 757, but he was also at the helm of some big misses (Turner, Hughes, Thoroughgood, Nicholson, Watford, Moore, Nixon, Hailes, Hunter, Sims, Travis Williams, Jerod Askew, Kerry Boykins, Kevin Newsome...)
That said, we should appreciate the downside of a recruiting-heavy staff. Al Groh surrounded himself with recruit first coaches and struggled mightily in player-development in his reign of joy. We have seen a few blips in the player development cycle at VT recently, at WR/RB/OL/DB in '12 alone. Need to continue to strive for balance in our staff.
I have a feeling Moorehead will end up being an outstanding recruiter. I have no knowledge of his prior recruiting experience but based on what I have seen of him skys the limit. Young, NFL experience, Super Bowl ring, and a fire and attitude that will draw kids to him. Just look at his interaction with Exum during the press conference. On top of that, based on his twitter interactions he seems pretty adept at using technology as an advantage as well.
I feel like the staff just needs to get Alec Baldwin from glengarry glen ross to come talk to them. A- always B- be C- closing. If the greatest active coach in college football can't convince any given kid anywhere in the country to come play for him, there is something wrong. We learned the painful lesson of low expectations on our offense, now we need to focus on changing how we view recruiting. I think this is an excellent development, I just hope it's a total attitude change and not just focused on a couple new staff members.
+/-
Like the movie reference, but Alec Baldwin's character was a raging douchebag. Not the kind of environment we want to create.
I have said for years, Hokies have to look to Georgia, Ohio, and Pennsylvania for OL prospects. I am thrilled that it is happening.
Also, when a good one comes along in Virginia, they have to get him.
This year, it looks like that good one is...
Steven Moss. Maybe Coleman Thomas.
I've seen Coleman Thomas play. We better show him some interest before he chooses wva
I highlighted Moss here before and on Twitter. He is a nasty mean prospect, and I'd love to get him.
My friends coaching back in SWVA have told me that Thomas is a terrific prospect and probably isn't ranked as high because of the level of competition down there. My understanding is that he is a lock to go to West Virginia because of family ties, but I know that Alabama has offered him. I have no idea if VT has or not.
VT has offered Thomas. I find it odd that Foster is the recruiter for Moss
Fredericksburg is in Foster's region.
..and it probably hasn't been updated
..that Grimes will likely be the co-recruiting with Foster on Moss.
yeah .. coast to coast, with the exception of OL, is a BIG waste of resources (money and time). we're never going to land kids from Texas or Southern California. If we could seriously improve overall recruiting, there is reason that we should need to look past the East Coast, from top to bottom, and Big 10 country (mainly Ohio, Michigan, Pennsylvania).
If we can recruit these areas ::
Virginia, Georgia, North Carolina, South Carolina, DMV, NJ, Ohio, Penn, Indiana, Michigan
we can get world-class players in every position
Florida
If we can afford to fly our jet to Athens Georgia for a coach with no interest, (http://onlineathens.com/sports/college-sports/2013-01-12/virginia-tech-r...) than why are we not recruiting Florida kids regularly. I'm a Marshall fan too and half the kids they fill their roster with are from Florida. Maybe character is an issue?
A lot of that is due to Marshall's head coach
He was an assistant at Florida before coming to WVU, where he recruited Florida heavily for RichRod. Before that he recruited the Florida area for WVU. That's where he has a lot of his connections with high school coaches. Plus Marshall has to look out of state for talent, since WV produces very few Division 1 players a year and those that are any good will likely go to WVU. Virginia has a deeper talent pool.
VT recruits Miami (esp. Atlantic High) with regularity:
David Clowney
Brandon Flowers
Jayron Hosley
Mark Leal
Luther Maddy
Dadi Nicolas
Donaldven Manning (only one on this list not from Atlantic...)
If you take that map as a literal interpretation of Frank's philosophy, Frank doesn't work it very well, because we don't recruit PA, OH or NJ. That's why I think the 'six hour radius' comment really means 'the ACC regional footprint.' VA, DC, MD, SC, NC, GA. Not much else.\
I think this works fine for skill players but not for linemen. We need elite OL and DL. To get them we have to move outside our regional comfort zone and invest in regions that produce stud linemen.
It is this step that will cause the most internal issues, because it will require a lot more recruit funds for a non-proportional increase in recruiting success. The marginal cost of going from good recruiting to great recruiting is relatively high.
They still recruit PA to some degree
Off the top of my head Jarrett, Drew Harris, and Taraschke are from PA, and they went after Dorian Johnson. I'd like to see them recruit PA more but you're battling PSU, Pitt, Ohio State, and Michigan for kids there. Same with recruiting in NJ, but throw in Rutgers.
My aunt is the Public Relations Director at Don Bosco Prep in NJ, a High School powerhouse that has churned out a number of All Americans of late (Alquaddan Muhammad this year, Ryan Grant, Brian Toal, Matt Simms, Gary Nova, etc. in years past). Greg Toal, their coach was a fullback at Tech under Jimmy Sharpe (not, uh, the glory years...).
My aunt always asks me why we don't have a pipeline there considering the connection. I get that the Catholic schools (ND, BC) have a natural advantage, but I have maintained for a while that this is a connection that needs to be reinvigorated. I don't care who it is, there is no excuse for not keeping friendly with an alumnus, and even more so with a top flight national power that is 6.5-7 hours from Blacksburg.
According to Shane Beamer on twitter...
The staff had a 5 hour meeting today to discuss recruiting and to pitch ideas how to make this whole thing better. That is very encouraging to see. I am pumped for the future.
Here's the tweet:
Rust Belt
If Virginia Tech were to follow Wisconsin's formula of nasty ground and pound game, then we need to hit the Rust Belt hard for OL. Maybe I am wrong, but it seem to me that the best are typically from the Rust Belt because of the Scandinavian heritage are strong in that region. That was one reason why I initally thought Adkins would have been a "make sense" hire before Grimey came along.
I am sure that Grimey have an eye for spotting nasty, mean streaked OL as evidenced by the list in the thread. So, I am confident that he is going to bring in some infusion of nastiness to the OL in recruiting.
...and don't forget about them good ol' fashion corn fed farmboys!
Outside of 6 hour radius...
Who do they actually have on the squad now outside of this radius... The florida guys maddy, nicholas, manning, roth. PA only jarret, tarasche? Anyone else. Just Malleck from Jersey? I would look for this number to go up in the future.
I don't think there is a lot of great football in NJ
Incorrect
Is it the South? No. But there are a few top-flight football programs (see my previous post about Don Bosco Prep) and there are annually a number of All-Americans (recruits) that come from NJ. The problem is, the majority of the talent comes from the large parochial system there, so Catholic schools like ND and BC have an inherent advantage. Plus, schools like Syracuse and PSU have historically mined the state well for talent, and Rutgers has done a great job in the last few years of keeping kids home (Savon Huggins, being probably the best example).
being from NJ, I guess I probably should have said that instead.
Haha, thats where I grew up too, so while I do not really follow NJ HS football anymore, I'll step up to add my two cents when necessary.
NJ is tough to recruit
PSU owned it for years. There's also ND, Ohio State and BC. Miami recruits there. And in the last decade Rutgers has become competitive there again. Again, it would be nice if VT recruited there more, but it's not easy and would probably take years of the coaches building relationships with high schools before seeing significant results. I think moving to the B1G will help Rutgers in their state (whereas I think MD moving could hurt them in-state).
Compare this to VA. In terms of major in-state programs you have VT. UVA dabbles in football. ODU is small time for now. UNC recruited here some under Butch but doesn't have any VA commits this year. MD is focusing mostly on MD kids. WVU doesn't really go after VA players. Less natural competition in a state that's got as much talent as NJ and PA.