Per 247 that is the case
http://virginiatech.247sports.com/Bolt/Hokies-hire-Warner-35815806
Per a source, Max Warner has been hired at Virginia Tech as an Offensive Quality Control Coordinator.
Warner previously served as the Offensive Coordinator for Tampa, Fla./Hillsborough.
There he won the Roland Acosta Assistant Coach of the Year Award.
Warner coached Virginia Tech quarterback signee Dwayne Lawson in high school.
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This place would lose its mind if a high school coach of a very talented player happened to get hired by UVa the same month that kid signs a LOI.
It's about time we started acting like the big boys in recruiting, and this falls under that banner.
And I'm 100% in favor of staff additions with strong Florida ties.
Oh I agree.
I have gone on record saying I wish we went and toed that cheating line more than we have been to be on the same level as everyone else and have been taken to taj numerous times for it. I like this move, it's not illegal but it definitely falls on the shady side of the law. However, good luck proving we did anything wrong. Nothing to see here as far as the NCAA is concerned, and yet it likely have is a recruiting advantage on a highly talented player we very much needed. Win win.
I was just pointing out that if this happened to our less fortunate brethren up North this thread would be much, much different than the tone we see below.
Yeah I was pretty confident you and I were in the same boat here. This is a solid move and it sounds like we actually got a really good coach in the deal, as opposed to just some budget bloat on a nudge nudge wink wink agreement. Regardless of whether or not this had anything to do with Lawson's recruitment (and I'm a-ok if it did) I have a good feeling about this bloke.
Agreed! Not sure I am a fan of this move, I am on the wait and see how everything plays out.
Hopefully it helps with our recruiting in Florida though.
It just doesn't feel right, ya know?
I like it. It's about time we starting to fill out staff positions that can help with recruiting/scheme/practice/scouting ... this hire and the ones last year for the recruiting support jobs are steps in the right direction. And his connections to FL H.S. Football won't hurt our FL recruiting efforts either..
Not to mention that this guy's background sounds like he could make the move over to the coaching side of the house at some point in his future as well.
Hmm... if I were a 17 to 20-year-old kid trying to eventually win a starting QB spot at Virginia Tech, this news would make me want to pick another school or transfer.
This is the program putting all of their chips in Lawson's basket.
I disagree. Lawson might be the most talented QB on our team come fall and he might not be. Andrew Ford could very easily beat him out for the QB spot in 2016 with his experience in the system.
That ignores his point, though. If you were a recruit - repeat, a HS player being recruited to come in after Lawson - what kind of shot at playing in front of him do you think you'd have when Frank hired his HS coach as a 'quality control' coach, meaning it was a package deal so you know you'll never get put in front of him?
You know what the deal is there, and it will create a void of recruits coming in behind him. We've seen that before.
Using that logic, then Chris Durkin should have been the starter last year, because he decommitted and picked Virginia Tech without even setting foot on campus.
I think Lawson could be a heck of a player, but unless he is LEAPS AND BOUNDS more effective than any other QB on the roster, he is getting redshirted. It makes absolutely no sense unless he is far and away the guy, and to expect him to step in and be the guy from day 1 is unfair to the kid and setting yourself up for disappointment.
Ultimately, the best guy is going to play. The best guy played last year, even though most people don't want to accept it. Maybe Motley, Ford, Durkin, or Lawson step up and beat him out this year. But, I guarantee with time ticking on Frank's career, he isn't going to play a guy who isn't the best guy just because the marks in the crowd think he is the shiny new toy.
How few true non early enrollee freshmen QB's have played first game of the season as the true starter? My guess is a handful.
Rakeem Cato is the only one I can think of off the top of my head
Christian Hackenberg
Brad Kaaya
By "enrolling early," are we talking January or the summer though? I think both of these are early summer enrollees..
'Using that logic, then Chris Durkin should have been the starter last year, because he decommitted and picked Virginia Tech without even setting foot on campus.'
That makes zero sense whatsoever and completely misses the point. Not to mention I never referenced anything at all about Lawson being the starter from day one. But hey, those that want to cheer the hire, feel free to do so.
Seriously. All of that counterarguement addressed exactly zero of your points. Gotta love tkp sometimes
swvadon's point is that new recruits will see that we hired the coach and not want to give VT a look because they feel he is a lock for PT.
French's point is that if it really affected recruits so much then Durkin should have scared them off already because he was promised a chance to play early and committed to VT sight unseen and should be seen as a lock for PT.
It's addresses the point specifically.
as for cheering the hire, I don't think anyone needs to cheer or jeer it. It's allowed, it happened. He will either contribute or not. Mostly I see this as a win - win regardless of Lawson. He has connections we need to areas we want to be in with kids we want to play for us. We have a position that gets him to the next level. Whether Lawson plays or not is something that will be forgotten very quickly, unless details of some torrid deal is made public.
That's a bingo
Except that for decades now, players have been 'promised' early playing time by schools to get them to commit. Sometimes the 'promise' is honored, sometimes it is ignored, leaving the player stuck in limbo of either accepting his role and knowing he got played like a sucker, or transferring & costing himself a year of transition.
Hiring a coach of the player is a commitment of several thousands of dollars and an investment in keeping any unpublicized 'promises' made. So, zero relation. Defensiveness about the questions does not legitimize it.
I love this game!
You are firmly in the camp that this was a tit for tat agreement to land Lawson. And that's definitely a possibility. There are, however, other posibilities.
Loeffler recruited Lawson. That means he had a lot of interaction with Lawson's coaching staff. We have been adding staff positions under Whit, and it's possible Lefty and this guy just clicked. This could be entirely organic.
Which is more likely? No idea. And I'm honestly fine either way. But even if this was a package, to assume that there is no chance Lawson can be unseated as the defacto starter at QB is a leap. You're making a lot of assumptions about what promises have been made when we don't know any of the details.
Way to jump to conclusions yourself. I never said I believe there was a tacit agreement. You jumped to your own conclusion, so sit on that for a while. I do know for certain that this 'unusual timing' gives every indication there was a tacit agreement, which carries all the negatives & none of the positives of such. This is the very thing that posters on here blast other schools for doing, but now laud us for doing. Quite the contradiction.
Dude...seriously?
Every comment you've made in this thread thus far has been dripping with innuendo that Lawson is a defacto successor at QB because of this deal, and when I point that out you want to eject because you never typed the specific words, "I believe this was a tacit agreement"? You've been arguing that position from the start so please at least back it up when questioned.
But even if we just go on the premise that this looks bad and will this have a detrimental effect to recruiting QBs, there's no basis for that. What french pointed out was that the abrupt flip of Durkin also gave the appearance of a promise of guaranteed playing time. That didn't scare Lawson away. And I'm betting that us hiring Lawson's OC to a staff position won't scare other QB recruits away, either. What will make QB commits hesitate to commit to VT would be if we find ourself with an established redshirt or true freshman starter. That's what cost Miami Lawson's commitment.
No, you jumped to the conclusions you so eagerly linked because you disagreed with my post. Your mind was already made up & your replies show to me that you obviously didn't like my dissent from your precrafted argument. There were plenty of others in this thread that questioned it, but... you took offense at mine. Interesting.
As I said above, anyone that wants to cheer this, feel free to do so. Perhaps you could learn to be as accommodating of opposing viewpoints. We've obviously got a disconnect that will not be solved by further discussion. Have a nice evening.
Well, yes and no.
I DO disagree with you. I think you're using a flawed premise, faulty logic, and some circuitous methodology in expressing an opinion that, quite honestly, I'm still not 100% certain exactly what it is.
As for taking offense? No. Difference of opinions is never grounds for offense. I might try to take you to task for being disingenuous, but it's done with all the urgency of a mouse fart. I like the back and forth of a spirited discussion, but rarely if ever walk away from one bearing a grudge.
I do think you're wrong, to the extent that I feel I have my finger on the pulse of your argument. If I'm correct in thinking your premise is this will be bad for QB recruiting regardless of whether or not this hire is linked to Lawson's recruitment, I think that is overstating the situation.
But fair enough. If you don't think there's anything to gained from further discussion, more's the pity. While I don't agree with your opinion, I don't begrudge your having it.
He didn't take offense only offered an opinion and French wasn't defensive just making a correlation. You attempting to "call out" people is what makes things personal.
You may not be outright saying that you believe there is a tacit relationship between the two, but you are explicitly saying that this is what recruits will think. That implies you believe it could be a possibility and the level of your belief mirrors the level to which you believe recruits will think that. In this case, high. Otherwise your point is unwarranted because unless you think it's a possibility then it's not one.
As a casual observer to this conversation, I had to take note of this quote because it seems like every time you have a discussion with someone on here who offers a differing viewpoint as your own you eventually end up saying something like this. Might be time to take a look at your own posting style and think of why this happens.
100% Agree on this one. I lurk more than post, but every time I see a thread with this guy replying, my thoughts are like "oh man, here we go again...."
Not as bad as that "bender" fellow....but yea....
Really? You disregard all other opinions then get cagey when someone calls you out on it? And then accuse the other person of not being accommodating to other view points? Just take a step back and actually think about the argument you're making and what's being discussed, these long threads don't really need to take place.
I have nothing against long tangents in the comments. It's actually one of my favorite things about this site. Fernleyhokie and I got into a really great discussion a while back about the prisoner's dilemma, of all things. It's great to talk about more than just football with awesome people.
What I hate is when it devolves into a series of bickering retorts (as opposed to rebuttals, which are fine IMO) and the whole thing just becomes a pissing contest. I'm naturally longwinded and love to debate, so I try really hard not to let myself slide into that.
I believe he was talking to swvadon, or at least that's what the new fangled ^ button that Joe just installed shows me. And yes, prisoner's dilemma was quite a nice convo
Oh yeah, I got that. Was just commenting about the "these long threads don't need to happen" comment. Long =/= bad, necessarily.
Totally agree, when it's a real discussion tangents are great, it's when they devolve into bickering that it's no longer of any use (I am also fully aware that I am contributing to this issue). And yes that was intended for swvadon, apologies if that wasn't clear (the spacing gets iffy when these tangents get so long!)
What would his job be exactly?
My understanding, at least for NFL teams, quality control coaches don't do much coaching. They are full time staff that review film or provide statistical analysis for the coaches. The position has a couple of benefits:
1) A third party with different ideas reviews film. While the coaches review film, the QC analysis could result in identifying trends that a position coach or OC, who has to not only review tape but also look ahead to building the next week's gameplan, may not notice.
2) They can provide statistical analysis, or as the NHL folks say, fancy stats.
Well, no off-campus recruiting, that's already known. He won't be the QB coach, or have investment in the playcalling. What will he do? make sure his QB stays happy & invested. It will be interesting to see what his salary will be.
I think it will be more interesting to see how he is used over time. He is a young coach with potential. They bring him in and he gets experience. Maybe he moves on in a few years or gets a promotion. It is a low risk gamble on a young coach.
Sweet, he can use KJ's dads office.
This is by far the sketchiest thing I've ever seen the Hokies pull. Not saying they are doing anything wrong, but this does leave room for concern. No matter how well qualified this coach may be, this will definitely raise some eyebrows, mine included.
I don't think it is sketchy at all. Major programs across the country have positions like this. I think the coaching staff got to know the guy when they were recruiting Lawson and probably one thing led to another.
I think having another guy on the offensive coaching staff is a good thing.
He does have college coaching experience.
I agree but it has the potential to look sketchy. This seems to me like an Aaron Moorehead type deal where you go looking for one thing ( Pep Hamilton/Lawson) and find another (Moorehead/Warner). He seems incredibly qualified, but to an outside observer who sees "New VT coach hired 2 weeks after his Star QB signs with Tech" could look incredibly sketchy to those not following the program as close.
If he works out anything like Moorehead, I don't really care what outsiders think.
Didn't they do something like this with Tyrod? Not sure what the exact coaching relationship/initial position was and the name escapes me.
The offense certainly needs the help, the role seems low-risk, and he's not replacing anyone. Apart from ethical nuances, I don't see much downside here as long as they limit his initial involvement
Not that I ever heard. Although Tyrod's Dad fixed Tyrod's "hitch", which the actual QB coach could not do.
Not Tyrod or even football, but we did hire John Richardson from ODU as an assistant basketball coach while recruiting Dorian Finney-Smith.
If he's a quality coach, which being coach of the year would explain yes, he is a good addition to the staff. He should have valuable ties to the state of Florida. Welcome to the HokieNation!
He can provide leads and intros for the coaches, I believe, but he can't "recruit".
This guy might be the Hokies' QB of the future. Why not get the guy that he feels comfortable with for the grooming process.
Colts hired Pep Hamilton soon after Andrew Luck came into the league.
I know, I know, rabble, rabble, blah, blah, blah... but this could be legit.
Just a coincidence, nothing to see here. These are not the droids you are looking for, move along...
I got a good laugh at this.
Reminded me of this song parody:
Always a leg for the Iraqi guy. I fantasized about somehow being his agent. The guy could have done some seriously funny commercials if he went that route. Maybe even SNL.
If you were in the minority of people who believed someone other than Dwayne Lawson was VT's QB of the future, welcome to the majority. I am encouraged by this vote of confidence before he even sets foot on campus. Intriguing to say the least.
If there's any team that needs a coach with the title "Offensive Quality Control Coordinator", it's us. I'll take the down votes if they're coming my way
Anything with the words "offense" and "quality" in it gets the green light from me
He's going to earn his paycheck, that's for sure.
sign me up on this one bring in joes brothers third cousin twice removed if it helps us recruit and win ball games.
Well look at that...it is possible to have the words "VT" and "Offensive Quality" in the same sentence. I've been trying to figure a way to combine the 2 for the last 10 years, to no avail; other than Marcus Vick's decorum of course.
I'm curious about what are the roles and responsibilitis of an Offensive Quality Control Coordinator?
Job Description: Slap Lefty whenever a pass goes backwards.
I'd be upset with the fact that this looks oddly familiar... but it's just so darn funny, not to mention appropriate. Take a leg.
I used this one a week or so back but it seems appropriate here so I am breaking it out again
Well, we've never had any quality we wanted to control before.
From what I am seeing this will be an off the field type of coach... Maybe to help him learn the playbook better/improve his mechanics? Would seem to make sense since it was his hs coordinator.
If Lawson wins the starting job and leads us to an ACC title or playoff birth this will be looked back on as a great hire. As it stands now it looks sketchy, but I'm all for bolstering our offensive staff.
I just don't see the downside! We need offensive quality! And control! Seems like a good fit!
Can't be any worse than the guy he replaced...
"Hey, did one of you tell Stanley that I have asthma? I don't, but if word gets out I can't scuba. If I can't scuba...what's this all been about? What am I working toward?"
Creed will always get a leg from me
Best Creed line in the entire series.
Bar none
For what it's worth I have heard Bud wants one for the defense!
I'm going to guess we didn't offer that position to Kevin Tolliver II's mom... *ducks*
There's a joke in there somewhere for a joke about a position for Kevin's mom, but I'm not gonna make it. That'd be in poor taste.
'bout time is all I can say. This is what we've been competing against...
Clemson, for example, has 5 coaches for offensive and defensive player development, and offensive, defensive, and special teams analysis and R&D. Oh, and 4 more positions for recruiting coordination, operations, high school relations, external affairs, etc.
Bama is more generic. They have EIGHT "football analysts".
As I said in the comment, he won't be responsible for on-field coaching. This is essentially a film analyst position. I expect that statistical analysis, ie- running this play vs this front averages 3.77 yards per play. Errors were made by X position X amount of time. That helps the coaching staff focus on key issues. It allows the coaches to coach, rather than coach, recruit, analyze, film review etc. Bud Foster called for this kind of move again and again in the spring. These are support resources that should help the staff.
Now, if he got the job to placate Lawson, I am not thrilled about it. But, he has a pretty impressive pedigree and the need was there.
Oh, and if Bud is looking for a defensive film guy and the money is right- oh Bud, I always wanted to live on Smith Mountain Lake...
We would miss your write-ups terribly, but I would be willing to make that sacrifice if it meant you were reviewing film for Bud.
There's a term for what French could do - ghost writer
Not for nothin' here, French, but Bud lives on Claytor Lake. Got a sweet spot on the upper part of the impoundment. He has a really nice ski boat and is also a fairly avid fisherman when he gets the time. Can't claim to know him, but we've spoken as he cruised by my walleye hole.
Does Bud just stare into the water and the fish jump in his boat out of fear and reverence?
MY walleye hole.
Well its been nice know you...
Ask my fishing buddies who DO know me about that! Some things in life are worth dying for.
But I gave you an upvote for getting the joke.
I've been looking for him on the lake for 10 yrs now. I live at Dunkards bottom.
I sure wouldn't want to piss him off by advertising the whereabouts of his digs, but Bud lives in the "Little Wytheville" area. I've only seen him out and about a few times, have seen his son more often in the ski boat. I've never seen Bud fishing, something I know he likes to do, but I'm sure his schedule wouldn't permit much free time.
I def won't be stalking him. Even if I saw him I probably wouldn't have the guts
to even say Hi. Just always thought it would be awesome to just randomly
see him out and about around the lake. :)
That's about the way I felt the times I saw him, it was very cool. I knew his son a little and so was emboldened to say hey, they cordially said hey back. He's a superstar and probably pretty used to folks recognizing him. As for stalking him, and I'm sure you wouldn't, but I can imagine that not turning out so well, huh? He looks just as tough recreating as he does on the sideline. By all means, though, while I'd never presume to speak for Mr. Foster, I think saying hi or waving is definitely in order and unobtrusive. On the water, a lot of folks wave and speak out there.
So is it sketchy or not? I'm serious, I really don't know. Obviously the devil is in the details, but this is definitely something that raises eyebrows whenever you hear about it. I guess I don't really know enough about the recruiting world to have an informed opinion.
I agree. I'm sure Whit and the Athletic Department dotted their i's and crossed their t's here, and he certainly sounds qualified for the position, but there's a certain perception in situations like these. It may be a bit of a slippery slope, but it's sort of an unsolvable issue. Coaches move up in the ranks all the time, and they may be connected to some recruits. Very thorny, but similarly difficult to deal with.
Or lowercase Js
Party on Wayne...
Party On Garth!
it is not a rules violation if that is the question. are they a package deal? it no doubt helped to get Lawson. is he qualified and can he help us? yes.
this is not unusual any more especially as tech support positions are added. but it gives the schools recruiting connections and improves the support staff. before the growth of support staff it used to be more conspicuous e.g., when Houston Nutt brought in Gus Malzahn...Newsome was rumored to have been hired to ensure VT got Tyrod...that kind of thing.
is it a bit sleazy...sure.
edit: at least this is over the table and not under it
Dwayne retweeted this. Thoughts?
Good chance that the dude that tweeted it has no idea what he is talking about and the only reason Dwayne retweeted is his way of calling him out for being wrong.
Suppose the roles were reversed. What would most of the VT crowd reaction be?
...tell me more about that Shapiro guy again?
Something something glass houses...
Looks like Lawson might have his Twitter set up to auto-retweet mentions. All his retweets seem to be of someone tagging him in a tweet. If Dwayne actually starts engaging this asshat it might be something.
BTW, that douche followed up with a tweet claiming Lawson could get out of his LOI "with one phone call" and be Kayaa's backup next year. Don't feed the trolls.
I too saw that. Got a good chuckle out of it. At least Lawson has a shot at day 1 playing time here (although slim). Sheesh, what an idiot.
A Miami fan is being a douchenozzle on twitter while tweeting athletes?
Obviously, we could use a little offensive quality control, but still...
While I don't share your sentiment, Ren & Stimpy is the greatest Nicktoon of all time and will receive an upvote forever.
I agree with the hire itself and the guy's background, but it reeks of impropriety and I don't enjoy giving anyone ammunition to be used against VT. I trust Whit and CFB, but I don't like the way it looks plain and simple.
Agreed. He definitely seems qualified, but the timing seems hinky. It creates the appearance of potential shadiness, even if it was all on the up-and-up.
Without any background on the decision to make the hire, it does lead to a lot of questionable thinking and speculation. When the hiring is/was announced, whichever coach facilitated the hire should have some dialogue about the decision making process in the hire, the expectations for his actual job responsibilities, and answering the resulting credulous questions. Until that is done it is going to seem fishy. Even afterward it might, but at least be proactive and try and justify the hire.
Soooo, is there any reasonable person here who honestly believes that this hire would have been made if there was no Lawson?
Is it really that far fetched to think that over the year and a half that Loeffler was recruiting Lawson that he didn't talk a lot of football with his HS OC and really liked what he was about? Fast forward a year and a half and Whit says they have funding for a QC offensive assistant and Loeffler has this guy at the top of his list?
I think it's actually really easy to see this hire get made outside of Lawson. I agree that it has a certain look to it, but who really cares? The program should do what it can to better itself regardless of what it looks like. I trust Beamer and Whit to have integrity.
do I agree?
Can I agree with your agreeing with me?
do I still agree with you after a night to sleep on it?
Glad to see this dance continue. It's great to be in sync on our agreement.
Oh bloody hell, I really could have used the gif I just posted as a reply to this....
Agreed, this topic is pretty POLErizing and requires us to be in rhythm with each other
Wow, you punned the hell out of that one
thanks, I can be downright catty when I want to
Looks like we are just going to grind on
looks like we're upsetting some lady Hokies, let's agree and shake on it
Lets dance to celebrate
HEY! This is a dance for 2!
haha... jk. just wanted to use that gif. Glad you're joining the party. the more the merrier
Forever alone!
awww... come here you
Let's not change the subject
I found this disturbing the first time...
ohh sophia vergara 5 years ago.. dime piece!! in a non sexist way or monetary way!
Thanks for the gif. Sent me from midnight back to 6...
No, no it's not so far fetched as to not be possible. Am I all upset and a-twitter about it? Naw, I'm not. I also agree that we should do what we should to better our program, and I do trust Beamer and Whit to have integrity.
Not sure about "regardless of what it looks like", though, and that may be my hang-up here. And still not sure that it is "actually really easy to see this hire get made outside of Lawson", but I'll let it rest and see how it all shakes out. I definitely won't be losing sleep over what may turn out to be a great recruiting asset.
It would be one thing if it was his dad or his HS head coach, but his HS offensive coordinator (who has experience coaching at three different colleges) being hired isn't really that fishy to me. People forget that college coaches are in contact with HS coaches, and looks like Warner took that as a job interview of sorts.
A cached version of his Fort Hays State bio:
Illinois ties. Moorehead's neck of the woods. I know he.can't actively recruit for us, but be might have connections to get our guys in the door.
Yep, he grew up in Illinois and coached in Wisconsin, NC and Kansas before heading to Florida.
If he was on the staff at North Carolina Wesleyan, that means he was hired by Coach Jack Ginn. Jack Ginn is one hell of a coach. If Coach Ginn thought he has the goods, then I am perfectly happy with this hire until I see a reason not to be.
That's one of the most impressively random connections I've seen made on here.
Amen French!!!!!!If he worked for Coach Ginn he is a good hire. I, for one, am happy to see more connections formed between E&H and Tech..... ie.... Farris and Clark coached by an E&H alum Jason White...Dakota Jackson coached by Coach Torrance and even you Old #60. You demonstrate the knowledge you gained from Coach Selfe and others with your analysis. I enjoy reading your reviews and am glad that you post on here.
How do we get North Carolina Wesleyan to play Wake Forest every year? The Battling Bishops versus the Demon Deacons is gold.
For most of their history, Elon College was the Fightin' Christians. They could have jumped into the fray.
I was the Fighting Christian mascot for 2 years!
Is it shady? Sure, it could be but nobody knows the details.
Is it allowed? yep, sure is.
Does that make it ethical? In a purist sense, no.
Does it make it the right thing to do in context? Unless you're Sam Rogers you don't bring a knife to a gun fight, so if it's allowed and other programs are doing it then, yes.
Have I stated my disdain for phrases like "we are working within the rules we are given" or "what we are doing isn't necessarily against the rules"? yes, especially when Timecop said it.
Is it hypocritical that I am OK with this hire for whatever justification? yep, sure is.
Does anything I think matter? nope.
one final statement and open question:
Seems this is something that Whit approves of as it's happened in both bball and football now, so I am going to assume he sees it on the lighter gray spectrum of things. Say a 15 on a scale of 50 shades, so more like some fuzzy handcuffs than a whip and leather straps.
What comes across better: Hiring and announcing after the fact or before the recruit commits? Anyone know if there is any bylaw that governs this practice?
Better afterwards announced. Before just looks to impact the students decision.
the coach is also now employed, the recruit has not yet enrolled...so we are in it for the coach regardless of what or how Lawson does from here on.
we do this with kids all the time whats wrong with doing it with coaches? everyone is mad we didnt out right offer steph curry just because his dad was great. we give recruits package deals all the time, if mike vick walked in and said im thinking about going to VT but only if my center can come with me and said center is a one star well guess who would be on scholarship next year and you would not hear one person complaining. i dont think its shady i dont think its anything but the nature of the beast of recruiting. lets all stop freaking out and be glad we are catching up to the rest of the NCAA and big boys after years of saying "frank is losing it", "frank is out of touch", "frank isnt with the times" i for one am glad to see this kind of stuff since he isnt doing anything the wrong way or breaking any rules at all.
People seem to be making all sorts of assumptions about this hire (not necessarily you).
If Max Warner was a "one-star" coach, I don't think he'd be on the payroll.
i agree. hes more like a 3* right? hopefully more like a kyle fuller 3* he seems like a good coach a good get for us with the possibility to have alot of potential with little to no risk for us as a hire. im just saying it seems like a lot of double standard as far as peoples opinion on the hire because the same people saying its a shady hire would have gladly accepted the scenarios i mentioned above with out a second thought.
Outrage is the new American past-time.
Offensive Coordinator in Waiting?
I think this puts more pressure on Loeffler than anyone... I do like the hire though.
he's a LONG way off from taking the OC job IMO. I don't think Lefty has any added pressure due to this
Let's wait until he's been a position coach at the FBS level before we start calling him a threat to Lefty's career. If there's a coach on staff that had the resume to be considered an OC, it's Zohn Burden.
I think Bud Foster would be my first choice.
as an OC? i mean granted over the years his D has put up just as many points as our O but i dont know if thats makes him qualified as an OC.
NFL scouts say that Nick Marshall (Auburn's NC-caliber QB who is converting to CB for the NFL) will benefit from his offensive background as a defensive back, due to his knowledge of how the offense functions. Stands to reason that the same would hold true for Bud. Might be a little awkward when he forgets what he's doing and tells the RT to pursue the QB more aggressively though.
I know it's QB to CB in this situation, but Richard Sherman was WR at Stanford and turned CB. Like the guy or not, he's one of the best in the League.
Sherman was actually recruited to Stanford as a CB, but played WR for his first year or two because they really didn't have anyone else. I remember being really surprised seeing the guy I watched make an epic 4th-down grab in the win against USC (back when USC was good and Stanford beating them was a rarity) playing corner for his last couple seasons on the Farm. But that was the plan all along. His temporary move to WR was actually a big point of conflict between him and Harbaugh.
But yes, back to your point above, if a guy's a football player, he's a football player.
Nick Marshall played CB in high school and at Georgia before he transferred to Auburn.
That being said, give Lefty a break. He never gets to see any of his plays work against Bud's Defense in practice.
Not remotely. This just helps Loeffler do his job. One of the reasons he spends 18+ hours a day in the office is because he's doing what this guy can now spend all day doing - all the film breakdown and statistical analysis of tendencies. During an interview last year, Lefty said he called a play (I think against GT that was a failed pass attempt on 3rd down, might have even been a pick. Too lazy to go check) because about 95% of the time they got a man look there, and this time they got a zone look. Guess what? That came from hours and hours of film review of an opponent's red zone 3rd down defense. That's right, hours of just that one situation. Add on that tendencies for 1st-3rd down for just about every situation possible (inside own 5, own 5-20, own 20-40, own 40-opponent 40, opp 40-20, red zone, goal line - that's probably how I'd break it down at least) and you can see how that's a heck of a lot of work for one guy who also has to coordinate the offense. This hire lets him take all of that work and condense it into, "Hey Scot, here's the spreadsheet for this week."
Mo' staff = mo' bettah.
Mo Bettah? didn't he play for Detroit back in the day?
So.... Loeffler might actually get some sleep?
Maybe. Or he might just spend the time doing other coordinator stuff. Or knock up his wife again. Who knows?
Too many good points both ways. All I can say is that if he can bring something to benefit the team then good hire. Time will tell if this was just a reach move or not.
I don't see the reason for all the fuss about ethics. If a team has an opportunity and then finds a good candidate, go for it. I don't think VT's situation was so dire at QB that they needed to create a BS position for a guy just to land a recruiticorn. If that's the case, they should have done it for Sweat, Hand, Nnadi, Allen, Grant, and host of other players in the past.
Think they make this in orange and maroon?
Just wanted to go on record that I hadn't scrolled down this far before I used the exact same image above. Mea culpa.
Drink!
Did Miami offer him the same job?
Pretty standard operating procedure for major programs these days. A little sketchy perhaps, but hardly anything out of the ordinary. People complain about falling behind other programs but then complain when we follow suit...
If nothing else, we need the position on staff and the guy seems qualified.
I'm not sure why people are upset about this, we have one of the smallest staffs in the country. Bama has 8 people for jobs like this and we have just finally hired our first one. I would expect that another would be hired in the next little bit for the defense side of the ball. As many people have said earlier in the thread, lefty prolly got to know this guy well doing Lawson's recruitment and when he got the go ahead for the position knew who he wanted. It may be just a matter of coincidence they both came from the same program. But as far as the position goes, I am just glad we are finally starting to get positions that other programs have had for years! If we truly want to get back in contention for another run at the natty then I'm all for it! But it's also going to take support from the fan base by putting money into the program by joining the hokie club!
OK, I think we all agree that we should hire as many people as is allowed, to do as much as everyone else is doing. and if I could personally pull a Grisham and fund it, I would.
I just can't make myself feel good about the way this hire went down, and should just eat my chicken dinner and shut up.
But, "lefty prolly"? Who else was under consideration for this position? Did we interview other qualified folks?
Sorry to be so contrary, I guess I am conflicted.
Alex got ahold of the guy's old boss down in Florida, who said that yes, this hire came about because of Lawson. However, it wasn't a "package deal" or anything like that. Lefty went down to recruit Lawson, hit it off with this guy, decided he wanted him on the staff, and Beamer hired him. Doesn't sound too sketchy to me.
*EDIT* Here are the tweets from Alex (we'll probably see more on here from Alex/Joe in the coming days, but here it is)
I already liked Warner's resume. And I had hoped this was the process that took place. The fact that Lefty got a guy he thinks he can work with who already has a strong resume is awesome.
but anonymous people on the internet ....
I have to wonder if lefty likes him/Warner that much that maybe Lawson is further ahead in understanding concepts and routes.. maybe he will just have to get reps in and it will be like riding a bike!!!
Warner has to have some new ideas/model/incorporate the same concepts as lefty in some way!
Dear god I wish this "Emma" thread would disappear...
Emma hating?!
/s +1 for the ladies putting up with the boys
that's not nice
It didn't come across the way I intended
no worries, just let those things bounce off you like you're the man of steel or something
This more your speed?
50 comments in the span of an hour or so on a thread not related to major news? Possibilities:
1. People are fighting.
2. People are posting Emma Watson GIFs.
Wait, BOTH ARE HAPPENING? All we need is some dork magic and we've achieved the TKP singularity.
dork magic.. uh... emma watson, hello?
You're totally right. I think we've gone past singularity and achieved a singularity inception.
Emma Watson was in Harry Potter... Pretty sure that's the pure embodiment of dork magic
drink!
Oh you want to battle, huh? STUPIFY
I'm not gonna lie, I still get Emma Watson and Emma Stone mixed up.
Emma Stone has gigantic eyes, red hair and kind of looks like a cat. Emma Watson does not.
It's odd, I know who they both are, but it's like my brain just won't solidify it. You say Emma Watson and I'm like, Superbad? Hermione? Either way I'm down to clown.
glad I'm not the only one. I have this odd crush on Emma Stone. I know their names individually but, in this scenario, my mind more often than not goes to Emma stone.
Its because When I was a little kid, I kinda had this problem. And it's not even that big of a deal, something like 8 percent of kids do it. For some reason, I don't know why. I would just kinda... sit around all day... and draw pictures of Emma Stone.
No crush on Emma Stone is odd
I.... Me.... don't... Words?..
Uggh... Someone Help
Good god almighty I love me some redheads.
Oh you guys!! I still love you and everything about TKP. Was just venting for a sec bc
I was really into this thread (more or less just trying to understand). No apologies necessary.
I will be just fine. And thanks for the nice gifs. :)
gif usage should ultimately butter both sides of the bread IMO. And we are all Hokies, we all put our pants on one leg at a time
What a horrible way to end this Emma Watson thread.
You should be more like the Todd.
What, you don't like downstairs?
Still don't like downstairs....
Gotta love that show. Every couple years, I have to watch it episode by episode all the way through. Though, there's a few shows like that now (The Office and now Parks & Rec will be in that rotation)
I'm tell you, if I just shaved my chest I would look just like that
Yeah, so would I.... And you can believe that cause I said it on the internet.
Bonjour.
I know I'm adding yet another gif to this already extremely slow-loading page, but
