Hokies running back Shai McKenzie has been charged with two counts of contributing to the delinquency of a minor according to a report by Cameron Austin of The Roanoke Times. For clarity's sake, the relevant details of Austin's report are below.
Warrants filed in Montgomery County Court last week detail that McKenzie, 19, and Devin A. Gavion, 18, a fellow Virginia Tech student, were being investigated for carnal knowledge of a child between the ages of 13 and 15.
Gavion has been charged with one count of felony carnal knowledge and one count of contributing to the delinquency of a minor, according to Becky Wilburn, Christiansburg Police spokeswoman. Gavion is a freshman business information technology major according to the Virginia Tech directory.
Police obtained a warrant for McKenzie and Gavion's DNA on Feb. 27 after two girls, one 15 years old and another 14, met two adult males using social media, who they later identified as McKenzie and Gavion.
The warrant states that an investigation included information that the group met at a home in Christiansburg "and it was revealed" they "had sexual intercourse" between Feb. 11 and Feb. 15. Four condoms were also recovered from the residence, according to the warrant.
Gavion is currently being held at the Western Virginia Regional Jail. McKenzie was processed at the Montgomery Regional Jail and has been released on a $5,000 secured bond, according to a press release from the Christiansburg Police Department.
According to Austin, the investigation is still on going. Virginia Tech has suspended Shai indefinitely from all football-related activities.
As I try to do whenever a player is involved with a legal issue, I'll keep my opinion to myself until the legal process ends.
Comments
BRUH................
The non player was charged with that.
Especially when he could probably have his pick of college age wimminz.
Like how do you even meet a girl that young as a full time college student?
edit: Twitter. I'm stupid.
My guess is Tinder... Its pretty common for High School girls to lie about their age on that app
Yes, that probably would be my guess as well. And a scary thought
Why in the world a star tailback is using social media to pick up children is beyond me. I realize girls mature faster now but I can still tell when a girl is under 16. Why you would risk a potential pro career to get laid is moronic.
ehhh...I don't think this is true...women have always matured earlier than men....always...its just that our culture has changed (evolved) over the last couple of centuries and men and women get married closer to their actual age (32M-29F) instead of back when they would marry close to their sexual peaks (22M-17F) so it just seems like women mature faster now when really nothing has changed the amount of time it takes for women to reach sexual maturity...
Not to start a debate on this but they actually do. Between extra hormones in milk, food, etc, girls hit puberty earlier than they used to. Your point is valid as far as mental maturation though.
As well as their apperance. I mean girls have always wore revealing clothes, but it seems in todays society and the internet girls are looking and dressing a lot older than they used to. I'm only 34 and it's changed in the 16-17 years since I've been out of High school.
It's always been that way. I'm 52 and I would have said the exact same thing when I was 34. Almost certainly said it, in fact.
Agreed. I was talking to a co-worker the other day and he has a daughter who is a senior in HS. He was showing me some pictures on facebook of her basketball team and pointing out the good players and what not. He mentioned one girl in particular being really good and I just assumed she was a senior as well and I said something about it. He said oh no she is a sophomore, she just turned 16 a couple months ago. I honestly couldn't believe it.
The good players or the good looking players?
Well this is not a good situation. I'm not sure how this will play out but hopefully it turns out different than it looks because it doesn't look good.
When the published report mentions that condoms were found with DNA matching the two guys, I don't really know how anyone could think it would turn out any way but guilty as charged, unless money becomes involved. Since we're talking two college students, I doubt money will become involved. Neither of the two have a brother who's a millionaire. Obviously one of the girls or their family members wasn't happy with what happened, so that won't go away, either.
Just reading the above, but where does it say that the DNA in the condoms matched the two guys? The police obtained a warrant for their DNA and there were condoms found at the house. I assume that they are going to try to match the two (and maybe you have read more information on the case and they already have), but I don't see where they have already matched them.
Judging from the timeframe, I'm guessing they waited until the results from the DNA test were obtained before issuing the arrest warrants.
If that is the case, then based on the charges, it can be assumed that DNA did not match Shai, as his charges were only contributing to the delinquency, and not carnal knowledge of.
Sounds to me like they're getting him for sex with the 15 year old and his friend for doing the same with the 13 year old.
Well, at least Shai was with the 15 y/o and not the 13 y/o right? Eh
Splitting hairs for our purposes, but yes, he'll most likely avoid the felony.
that was a little sarcasm
Thought it might be, but Joe still hasn't put in the sarcastica font. Slacker.
I'm still waiting on my accented characters.
¿Qué?
Por fin Joe nos los ha dado para que yo pueda teclear en espaol? Buensimo!
Edit: STILL NO SPECIAL CHARACTERS
There are if you know HTML... :)
I mean, I know HTML well enough to mess around with little things like that, but for someone who has spent the better part of the last five years writing in Spanish and Portuguese?
Would this be in poor taste?
words to live by my friend
One of the best movies of all time with an awesome title (really is there a better name than Brian?!) is always in good taste. And luckily depth at rb is not really a concern so their is a bright side for the team...
I think that is akin to be killed by a shot to the stomach or choosing to be eaten by rabid wombats.
The warrants were most likely to obtain a DNA sample from the two of them. Unfortunately forensic testing is not as quick as on TV and the condoms have probably only been screened. This case is hardly a priority in the eyes of public safety officials. The suspects are identified and it is implied that it was a consensual act. Depending on the results of the DNA comparison additional charges could be added later.
Not that you don't have reason to be skeptical, but what you described was never said at all. You're jumping to conclusions.
Where is the report saying the DNA matched the two guys? The linked article didn't say anything about DNA test results so you must have a different source than the one above
Too soon?
And to think, I thought 'Always Look on the Bright Side of Life' might have been too much...
Well played
Definitely not too soon, thats hilarious. Might have to put this on the list of 80s movies to watch Im building from the other thread.
This does not look very promising. If this is true, "WHAT WERE THEY THINKING?"
Teenage boys and girls.... are we even gonna try to reason that one out?
Um, yeah. I think a 19 year old is smart enough to know that this is not OK. I don't like the go to response is "teenagers and hormones" as if they have no control over themselves.
Not excusing it in the least, just saying that a 19 year old thinking with his johnson is never gonna end up in a good place.
"The problem is, God gave man a brain and a penis and only enough blood to run one at a time"
- Robin Williams
So, no. Don't do that.
I'm just wondering who keeps used condoms around? Did the cops/family find out about it the next day and searched the house?
Well, let's imagine this scenario. (As gross as this topic is) Let's say the condoms were tossed in the trash can in the girl's bedroom. Let's say she was lazy about hiding her activity, and three days later, her mom is taking out the trash and discovers said item. Mom blows a gasket, and confronts daughter. Daughter lies, then tells the truth, or her cell phone is inspected and Shai's name is revealed. Trip to the cops, DNA testing is done, returns a week later. Then we see what happened. Charges filed, VT AthDept finds out, and here we are.
Something like that is pretty likely.
And if that is the case you're talking about a collegiate male meeting up with a high school girl he only met online and then having sex with her in her bedroom in her parents house. Unfathomably stupid. When you consider his status at Tech it just makes it so much worse.
I am hearing a lot of hypothetical scenarios on here trying to blame the girl for this and... Just stop.
It's funny how a consensual act is considered illegal. I'm not going to defend McKenzie, as he should have known it was "statutory rape." But, "Statutory rape" is really difficult to prosecute, because the underage consenter hardly ever snitches. In this case, it looks like it will be easy. It's odd that the authorities were able to obtain a warrant and search the house within time to recover condoms. Unless the girls reported this to their parents or directly to authorities, I have no idea how this information gets out with that kind of swiftness.
Sidenote: Blacksburg and Christiansburg PD very different from Tallahassee PD.
That particular 'consensual act' is illegal because one of the participants is not of an adequate age to make judicious decisions about committing such an act.
BPD & CPD are not that different than their counterparts in any other college town across the nation, Tallahassee included.
Ignorance is bliss
The mere fact that this investigation happened, Shai was arrested, charged, divulged to the media, and because of it is now indefinitely suspended from the team is proof enough that BPD and CPD are nothing like Tally PD.
Exactly. Tallahassee PD purposely botched their investigation to prevent Jameis from being indicted. The Christiansburg and Blacksburg PD moved swiftly and pressing charges. One worked for the football team. The others worked for justice.
Small correction... there would have to be an investigation for the Tally PD to botch it. They rarely even get to that point.
Tally PD is really the lowest of the low, but if you think that our football players don't get a pass more often than not, then you are misinformed. There are many more players arrested for DIP/DUIs than what the media reports. While I realize that alcohol related arrest pale in comparison to sexual assault/misconduct charges, it is naive to believe that BPD treats star athletes remotely similar to the standard Virginia Tech student.
If someone is "arrested" that can not be just hidden.
It is definitely a consensual act, no quotations needed. From the preliminary facts, it appears the girl and McKenzie solicited each other through a social network. The facts that will be of grave importance are the conversations that transpired.
Did the girls portray themselves a certain age? Who invited whom over? Was there any speak of sexual activity? If so, who initiated the conversation? While only the first question will fully exonerate McKenzie, the others will portray whether this act was malicious act of 19 year old deceiving a 15 year old, an honest mistake, or something in between.
15 year olds are capable of making decisions. Many not wise. Many choose to do drugs, commit crimes, and even have sex. Interestingly, a 15 year old can consent to having sex with another 15 year old, even a 17 year old. But, by statutory law, a 15 year old cannot consent to have sex with an 18 year old.
The only question is did he have sex with a child of the ages of 13-15. None of the other facts matter, whether she lied or he didnt know, it doesnt matter. Carnal knowledge of a child 13-15 is pretty straight forward, if there is evidence, or he admits to it, then he is guilty.
One possibility is he didnt have sex with one of them, he was just there, which would be the contributing to the delinquency charge, not the carnal knowledge as his friend was charged. If she was 15 and they did it, I dont see a reason for them not to charge him with carnal knowledge.
Umm unless his accomplice is some of stud or was double bagging, this seems like more than one male was participating
The report gives a range of 5 days during which sexual activity allegedly took place, implying that there were multiple encounters between Feb. 11th and 15th.
I didn't think of that, I guess I hope they weren't dumb enough to have gone over there multiple times.
Just because they found 4 condoms doesnt mean they were all done in one night. They could be from someone totally different not related to this as well.
also doesnt mean they were with the same partner. if your scoping tender and a reg decent looking guy if you work hard enough you can have a different hook up every night. if your say shia mckenzie i think you could do okay for yourself on there just from credentials alone by saying hey im a star football player for VT.
Pedantry- it's actually ages 13-14.
Maybe its just me... but whether it comes out that he had sex with the 13 year old or was just there when the other guy did... its still pretty disturbing, and not the behavior I want to see out of any of our football players.
Yes, let's allow this to play out a little bit and not have knee-jerk reactions. I don't want ANY of our players to have legal issues (especially one that I think has a lot of potential and have been a fan of).
However, when I hear of players getting themselves into stupid situations like this I feel like:
We don't need that kind of behavior at Tech, reminds me too much of MV5.
For now let's all hope that it is not how it currently looks.
Well, it looks how it currently looks because the initial perception of these things does the damage.
It's a privilege to play football at VT. To be in this situation, one has to have already broken their end of that contract. I'm done and moving on.
All I'm saying is that while a part of me wants to rip into him for being such a stupid a-hole for doing something so stupid and perverse, I have learned that it is better to wait for a few more facts to come out. At this point we really don't know what role he had in all of this. He has, at this time, only been charged with contributing to the delinquency of a minor (similar charges faced by MV5 and Mike Imoh, IIRC).
I do not know what he did, therefore cannot condone, nor condemn his actions. However, depending on the severity of his actions (or lack thereof), he may be offered a chance to clean up his act and continue with the team. Beamer is a big believer that these are young men, and occasionally make mistakes, assuming that his was a relatively smaller mistake (at this point we don't know exactly), he will likely be offered a second chance. My hope is that this is the situation.
If it turns out that he was heavily involved, then I agree with your opinion, and will move on as well. But, let's wait a bit before doing away with him.
And I've learned that there is no reason to worry about additional facts. You can worry about that if you have some vested interest in him personally and care if he ends up in jail or not. I don't have that interest.
As far as a VT athlete, he has already crossed the threshold. This isn't the court of law, it's the court of public perception and he's been found guilty. No more reason to worry about it, just go in another direction.
dumb dumb dumb
Putting all other details aside from this situation...Having been a student at Tech, I just cannot for the life of me understand how finding chicks on social media and then going to their house in Christiansburg (I mean c'mon, dead giveaway, only reason to go to C-burg is to play golf, go to Walmart, or hit up the Farmhouse, R.I.P.) is even a part of someone's college experience. I'm by no means perfect and had my own run-ins with the law while in school, but for the love of the lord how much alcohol would it have taken for them to end up in C-burg looking for girls!?!? Literally mind blown that this could actually be a thing that happens to college aged male students at Virginia Tech, let alone that this now TWICE has happened to members of the VT football team.
Which leads me to my next point, Freshmen orientation needs to include a 30 minute "Here is why you would EVER need to go to Christiansburg effing Virginia" session. THEN, the football coaches should have another separate 2 day seminar on this topic with the players!
-- when did this happen?
Just recently, just the football team eating there wasn't enough to keep the lights on.
Damn. My roommate and I had a deal that whenever our parents would visit we'd bring the other to Farmhouse.
Did a report/conducted an interview on Farmhouse for a Comm project. Cool place but, the lights literally weren't even on.
Yeah, it was announced in the Roanoke paper sometime within the last month or so. I think they didn't make enough effort to evolve with the times. Way back decades ago, they were 'the' place to go for a steak in the NRV. That was decades ago, though. There are far too many places that provide better options now. I'd expect Bull & Bones to pick up the Hokie football Friday night pre-game meals now.
Leg for Bull and Bones, great food
Careful, I live in Cburg. Much cheaper than BBurg.
Cburgers unite.
Ok, so you live there and I take it from your name that you've graduated, I can understand that. I have no problem with someone living there. I am talking about students, freshmen no less, who have to LIVE on campus. All jokes aside, inherently if you are a freshmen at Tech, there are about 5 actual reasons to go to Christiansburg, and reason number 2,147,252 might be to pick up girls.
I think I see what you're saying but there's no reason to dump on Christiansburg. There are underage girls in Blacksburg, too. I don't think where they're from is an important fact.
I apologize for implying I was dumping on Cburg, definitely not my point. I was just trying to say that having been a Freshman at Tech not that long ago, my brain can't compute even the concept of the situation (going to Christiansburg to pick up girls included in said situation) as described.
Also, statistically speaking, going to Christiansburg as opposed to Blacksburg to find girls does make a difference, the University alone greatly increases the population of 18+ yr old females in Bburg, which would increase the likelihood of you finding girls of age. But seriously, I love Christiansburg, Ryan's Steakhouse on a Sunday afternoon was my spot!
Too bad Ryan's is gone but now there is a Golden Corral in it's place. :)
WHAT!? First the Farmhouse and now Ryan's too?????
AMB4VT just crushed your world... so unfortunate.
Yes sir...but I think I like Golden Corral a little better but have only
been once.
One word for Golden Corral:
Rolls.
In the warmers or on the customers?
that just brightened my day.
YES!!!
considering the clientele, I am going to need you to be more specific
Golden Corral is to Ryan's as TKP is to the Sabre
Good riddance to Ryan's.
Someone please tell me that Homeplace is still around.
damn right it is!!
It is. *checks internet* Yep, still there. Whew.
Oh yes, the Homeplace is still a place
I was there Sunday. The host mentioned taking a 95k loss last year and now they are charging for dessert. I certainly hope the days are not yet numbered due to the substantial overhead.
That said, I would pay way more for it to stay open. $14 is extremely reasonable considering the amazing fried chicken and glorious mashed potatoes.
The roast beef. Ohhhhh, the roast beef!
That is interesting to hear. I wonder if it is a matter of keeping their prices 'down', or if it is a matter of fewer customers. As you mentioned, $14 is a reasonable price, but I would think it is at the upper end of that 'reasonable' range. If they went to $16, for example, I think that would be a price that would be perceived as a little high. It's a fine edge to try to hold that price, especially for family style meals.
I think the separate price for the dessert is a good move, as it will cut down servings of dessert by probably 50% or more, I'd bet. That way they could lower their expense in that way. Maybe eliminate a side or two, and give themselves a bit of a cushion.
I hate to hear that, though, because I always thought that was an ideal restaurant concept. Love the Homeplace. Love their salty country ham. Here's hoping they stay going strong.
I used to think $15 was a high end meal. Then I moved to DC and found out $15 will get you a mediocre burger or sandwich meal.
If The Homeplace is in danger at all then I am extremely worried.
This thread just got much worse
Yep just went there last weekend. Great chicken. The owner is super nice. Great family style meal!
I do believe it was Ryan's who left before the Farmhouse.
I think it's the effort involved in going to C'burg. I could see the guys being at a party and doing something dumb, and maybe that'd be a bit more forgivable. But to make the conscious decision to get in the car and drive 15-20 minutes to see a couple of girls (and if they're in C'burg, they're probably not in college, bit of a giveaway), that's just dumb. Really dumb. For real.
I don't know, when I was a freshman at Tech picking up girls was always a least in the top five of reasons for going anywhere.
I agree, that remains in the top 5 reasons for a large majority of the world's male population, regardless of age and circumstances. I guess I just can't get over the elaborate nature of the process by which this became an actual thing that occurred. If nothing else, just baffling.
Richmond to Hollins and back in the same night, we are not very bright are we guys.
Yea, I get what you're saying. I was more or less joking, as I do not understand their mindset in this case either. At some point you would think they would have stopped and thought that maybe it wasn't such a great idea after all.
As someone who grew up a kid in C'burg, I guess all I'll say is I take great offense at this post. Alas....
Okay, after reading the rest of the posts where you made it clear you weren't intentionally dumping on C'burg, we're square. ;-)
Well, all things being equal the running back pool just got shallower and the decision for a possible redshirt (if he is still on the team) was made easier.
I really have no idea what goes through some of these players minds. Unless they have some type of evidence that shows they thought the kids were legal (Marcus had video tape) they are probably going to be convicted. You take a potential promising career and potentially dump it down the drain.
I am pretty sure that is a misdemeanor, but still...
Marcus had no excuse. Marcus knew the difference. There is no pretending Marcus had any doubt. Let's stop trying to excuse that. It is insulting.
Oh I know that Marcus probably knew, the reason he got away with it is the video of the girls saying they were 18. Why they heck would he have made that video if he didn't think there was potential of getting caught?
Not trying to defend anybody.
Are you seriously asking why someone would want to videotape sex?
There's an entire multibillion dollar industry dedicated to it.
I was referring to the fact that they taped the girls saying they were 18, not the industry.
This makes me very sad and nauseated. I'm going back to French's movie thread if anyone's looking for me. It's safe there.
Was Dumb and Dumber made in the 80's?
94
It wasn't like they met at TOTS with the girls using fake ID's etc and blending with 18+ college girls. They hooked up via social media... absolutely creepy and not someone I want associated with my university whether its a talented running back or a freshman engineering major. You flat out blew it Shai. What a shame.
Yeah, can't see this one ending well. I'm sorry, but screw the "I'll withhold judgement til all the facts come out" Short of a DNA test proving that it wasn't actually Shai, you're looking at a whole lot more than just immaturity. Best case: extreme stupidity combined with complete ignorance to the difference between a 13 year old and an 18 year old girl (really?) Worst case is so much, well, worse.
And the fact that he wasn't the one with the 13 year old isn't relevant either. His buddy was with the 13 year old. You gotta step in there.
i want to start by saying i dont get into online arguements and im not big on talking about morals on line because we all have different views on things depending on where we come from, what we came from, where we are, and how we got where we are and with out really knowing many of you guys induvidually it is hard to read what your saying in the context that you are saying it.
im not here to start a fight but i think that alot of people are EXTREAMLY niave when it comes to hooking up on social media. its a pretty common thing for people between the age of 18-25. and while getting dressed going to a bar, spending money you may not have after working out and practice and hoping you find someone to come home with you sounds like a good time to some (you can also get into just a much trouble just ask jamies winston) to others it sounds like more fun to sit in your room in sweat pants and a t while playing video games with your boys and browsing sights like tender where the girls pretty much come to you when they want it.
its not that far fetched nor is it idiodic to be on social media trying to find some specially for a 19 year old kid. id imagine shia did not no the age of the girl. and i feel sorry for him in that aspect. i get it trust me if that was my daughter i would be mad as all get up but lets not act like we havent seen some 15/16 year old girl running around and thought dangggg what happened to these young girls they are looking older and older every year specially to a 19 year old dude who is still a kid himself. im not saying shai should be forgiving. but i think we should all check our own choices we made as a 19 year old and some of the extreams we went to for a girl and how easyyyyy it would be to think your hooking up with a 17/18 year old when shes 15 and then be right in the same boat as shai is right now.
this no doubt no matter what will follow him the rest of his life and may very well cost him his NFL shot but for all we know shai could be a vic or he could have been the perp but until the facts are revieled i think we should all hold judgement so quick.
agreed on the prevalence and contemporary norm of social media for hook ups. Nothing wrong with meeting people through whatever means you have available to you and getting to know them in a variety of ways UNLESS it's a situation like this.
And while I agree that they're could be some level of entrapment by the girls that passed off as older in no way is Shai a victim. You just got to be able to know better. It really is not that difficult.
im sure if you asked shai if its okay to hook up with a 16-15 year old girl at the age of 19 he would know better though. but if he thinks hes hooking up with a 17/18 year old thats a totally different story. now even if i was 18 i would be weary of hooking up with a 17 year old in this day and age but i just want all the facts before we turn shai into a pedifile or whatever else. im not sure if its a country wide law or not but here in florida once your a registered sex offender you have to put a sign on your law stating such and a guy i went to school with who just turned 18 hooked up with a 16 year old who both went to the same high school at the time. he was charger and convicted with statutory rape. he cant live with in so many miles of a school has a sign in his yard, hes had a hard time finding a place to live, its on his record when he applies for jobs, he wanted to coach football with me but he cant do anything that involves kids, i mean this has had a MAJOR effect on his life he was a good student played football with me and was pretty good not D-1 but had scholarship oppurtonities that were pulled because of this. i would call him the victim in the situation and until i hear all the facts on shai im going to wait to hold judgement one way or the other. if it comes out and he knew she was 15 and he did anyways then ill be right there with alot of the views ive seen on this post. but that is IF and right now we just dont know very much at all. to shun shai so quickly and with out conviction is not hokie like at all. alot of people say once a hokie always a hokie but apparently thats not the case. lets all stand in our glass house and throw stones. im just not ready to until i have more facts is all.
Oh, I am all about due process, but if true no matter he was duped or not, Shai is not the victim. I don't believe I am shunning him at all in what I said here or anywhere on this thread.
was not directed towards you sir. just a general observation about alot of the opinions on this thread. alot of people saying in maybe nicer words "screw him, moving on" because they are mad hes not scoring TDs for VT anymore more than likely? But in reality this is a young mans life and i just dont agree with that stance until i have proof of what he specifically did and even then i will still form my own opinion about it. right now i stand by him and support him weather or not he ever plays another snap for VT or not just as we want the best for other hokies who have came and went i feel the same way about him. i feel that way about micheal holmes. totally different situation but still at this point we dont even know exactly what happened and we are all kicking him to the curb.
wish i would have worded a little differently because im not trying to point fingers or make it seem like im condoning this type of behavior i am by no means saying its acceptable. main point im trying to make sure the accused is guilty of something before we sentence him.
Just a hunch-- Stick It In won't be making its return this season.
I feel bad for laughing at this, but I definitely laughed at this.
Feel sorry for all involved. It's a shame to see someone with such promise make such a poor decision. Now the question becomes whether Frank makes an example out of him or feels that a second chance would be beneficial. Everyone loses in this situation.
I seriously hope he didn't have a big role in this....ughh.
Lulz, I was gonna ask if a ChrisHansen.gif would be in poor taste.
Immediately reminded of the Arrested Development variant, "John Beard's To Entrap a Local Predator: Orange County Edition: Super Creeps"
I just broke my skull in a fourth place, the patio.
One of my only favorite scenes in a rather disappointing season.
Oh, FFS.
I was probably younger than 12 years old when Marcus had a similar run-in with the same problem so excuse my newness to the idea, but this is some extra kind of messed up stuff. Like someone else said, being an idiot is part of being a college kid and doing dumb stuff with your friends. Smoking weed, I get it. Suspend the kid and hope he's learned his lesson. Same with public intoxication. But this is completely inexcusable. I would be shocked if we ever hear the name Shai McKenzie associated with the future of Virginia Tech football. My heart goes out to the parents of all who were involved. It's unfair to say, but this has to make you feel like a failure. I am glad Virginia Tech has someone with the utmost character like a Frank Beamer who will not tolerate anything of the sort in his program. This is bad, really bad.
Considering the seriousness of what happened, not only wouldn't I be shocked if he never suits up for us again, but I wouldn't even miss him. If he's convicted (or even if this is settled out of court), and he serves his punishment, that's nice... But he can have his second chance elsewhere.
IIRC, Marcus also got the girl drunk.
Insert any CaptainPicardfacepalm.gif make it so
Innocent until proven guilty, but I'll admit this looks bad.
If he did it - dumb and he may have pissed his livelihood away. If he didn't - he's got a PR nightmare for the rest of his live. Perception is everything these days, and a Google search of his name will always turn this up.
If nothing else, I am glad our athletic department has absolute rules for these situations where the suspensions are a matter of procedure, not choice of the head coach. We will do what needs to be done and the legal process takes place from there.
You know, the more I think about this whole situation, which is sad in and of itself, I am going to wait to cast complete judgement on the whole situation. Lets just say Shai went there, contributed to the delinquency of a minor and none of the 4 condoms have his DNA on it and it comes out that he put himself in a really dumb situation but didn't do something completely inexcusable and awful, might we look at this differently? Just wondering everyone else's take on the overall morality of it, if this comes out as the actual facts....
There are a lot of levels to what this situation is or could be, ranging anywhere from dumb to malicious, none of which we know at this point and we won't know any of it until the legal process has played out. Sure, it looks bad, and that's as far as I personally will take it at this point. Even if he's innocent, it's bad press and like I said, the public judges immediately.
I would hope everyone reserves judgment, but to each his own. Being even peripherally related to this situation is dumb, but if he didn't do anything illegal, it's something to learn from. If he did do something illegal, well...there is a price to pay, maybe several prices. I won't go into any interpretation of morals (to each his own) or ethics; I will judge the outcome in the eyes of the law itself.
Thank you. That's exactly what I've been trying to say above.
I'm sorry, but I am going to take the stance that these girls may have told him they were 18. Do we know for sure that didn't happen? You never know with some of the females out here these days. a 15 year old could easily look 18 these days.
That's not a defense.
Thank you. That was the lame excuse of choice (among many others) for all the Marcus apologists way back when. It rings just as hollow now as it did back then. There is a difference, and less than five minutes of conversation reveals that difference.
Just being in the situation to be charged is inexcusable. Completely and totally inexcusable.
Not always. Example: My Wife works at a high school in the District. She has a 20 year old sophomore. No lie. She is a social worker and had to sit him down and explain why he couldn't deal with the same girls he was in class with. She also has girls in her class who are smart, saavy, and look much older than 14-15.
Not excusing the boys here, and they should be punished, but to simply say that after 5 minutes of convo, you should have known the girl was underage is naive these days. As much as we would like to think so, The Burg aint Mayberry.
I went to VT back in the day when the calendar year was the cut off for school. So those with birthdays in the fall went to college at age 17. Frats routinely recruited said girls to parties...lots of girls under age 18. Lots of girls with bods and without life experience. Add alcohol and voila!
One saturday morning i awoke to a pile of 17/18s in t shirts and panties lying all over our apt. They were all Radford frosh and my roomies brought them to our place rather than haul them back to Radford.
what do you think the DNA police might have found?
no, this isnt a 19 and a 15 on social media, but there are a lot of people on this board who either did, could have easily, violated the same statute and no one would have thought twice about it.
Might have been acceptable "back in the day" but I personally think it's time society uses some more sense and realizes that using alcohol to sleep with underage girls isn't acceptable.
Big difference between 17 and 15
Maybe in the court of public opinion, but VA law doesn't differentiate.
as shitty as it is if that happened, what the guys did is still illegal. that defense could not hold up in court.
you still have to make smart choices and what these two did is so effin stupid.
I'd like to play devil's advocate and go off of your comment a bit - say you have a 16 year old female who says she is 18 and has intercourse with an 18 year old freshman on the football team. Should the player be suspended? Should charges be brought? It is technically against the law, but what's the guy supposed to do, card the girl?
He could always not have sex with her.
Buddy of mine argued in class once that if a girl had a drink in her hand and a tattoo that was two forms of ID.
I know 15-year-olds with tattoos too, as a counterpoint....
Is it against the law for an 18 year old to sleep with a 16 year old? I've always been under the impression there was a two or so year window.
Full disclosure: my wife and I are 36 and 33 respectively. When we met (and eventually hooked up) I was 18 and she was 16. If I had met her a month or two earlier she would have been 15. My friends gave me guff about robbing the cradle but there was never a hint from anyone anywhere that what we were doing was illegal. 19 and 15 are a bigger gap obviously but to me 18 and 16 ain't that much of a difference, especially since girsl generally mature earlier than boys.
Here's a good rule of thumb.... don't dip your collegiate pen in the high school ink
Hell Alum, I didn't enroll in college until I was 24. By then most of the college age girls looked like high schoolers to me.
I posted regarding this below. I know there's an exception in Virginia in statutory rape cases if the two consensual partners are within so close of an age difference. I just don't know what the window is.
Simple outline the Code 18.2-371.
Person 18 or older:
o Willfully contributes to/encourages condition rendering child delinquent, in need of services, or in need of supervision; Or
o Engages in consensual intercourse with child 15 or older.
Delinquent: criminal act
Child in need of services: behavior, conduct or condition creates serious threat to well-being and physical safety of the child, or, if under 14, serious threat to other(s)
o clear and substantial danger to child's life or health or to the life or health of another
Child in need of supervision: chronic absenteeism or remains away from/abandons family with clear & substantial danger.
https://leg1.state.va.us/cgi-bin/legp504.exe?000+cod+18.2-371
Age of consent in Virginia is 18. Minors are considered, for a majority of issues, incapable of consenting. Thus, Virginia writes such into the code sections that's why it's "statutory".
http://www.cga.ct.gov/2003/rpt/2003-R-0376.htm
If one party is over 18 and another is under 18 that's technically contributing to the delinquency of a minor under the current laws.
In some states. Not sure about VA but in WV there is a 4 year window by my latest knowledge.
But that law doesn't apply to relatives, right?
That would rule out the entire population of West Virginia then.
This is a legal defense that should hold up in court. I don't know the VA jurisdiction, but a mistake-in-fact will typically get you off in many jurisdictions. Most criminal acts require a criminal mental component. I'm pretty sure this is the exact Marcus Vick defense.
It is not a defense that holds up in court. The VA cases regarding it IIRC are really old but mistake of age is not a defense.
I'll take your word for it. I have no idea about VA law, was just speaking generally.
Mistake of age for sex cases is an exception to the rule about mistake of fact. I want to say that California is one of the few states that allows for that as a defense. The rule about mistake of age not being a defense was established in most places in the 1800s when attitudes toward sex were different than they are today. I've always thought that under the right circumstances a court would change the rule but you'd need a pretty sympathetic defendant and a less than sympathetic victim.
Interestingly, in 1880 the age of consent in most of the US was either 10 or 12 years old. My wife's home state of Delaware bucked the trend by having their age of consent set much earlier at 7. The source I found lists ages for all but three current states (AK, HI, OK) even though 12 states weren't admitted until later. The lower age of consent would lend itself to the disallowing of mistake of fact as a defense more in that context than in the context of someone who is in the 16-17 age range.
Source: http://chnm.gmu.edu/cyh/teaching-modules/230?section=primarysources&sour...
What kind of law do you practice?
I'm in law school now at USC, trying to get into IP (hard Bio background).
Criminal defense.
Very cool. You're obviously the expert in this arena.
he could always just use the Shaggy defense....
This type of behavior canno't be tolerated , justified or condoned ! Fully agree with cd7 and am moving on and wish the same for McKenzie .
I agree with all of you. I was simply asking a question..but thanks for the downvote. With the information I just got right after I posted that, I no longer can even think he was ignorant to the fact. He needs to be dismissed.
I will reserve judgment until more details have emerged and the process has more fully run its course.
I do have one question, though, regarding Virginia state law. I believe there is a "window" in the applicable laws in Virginia that essentially protects a high school senior who is 18 and has consensual sex with his junior girlfriend, etc., whereby some sort of an age window is established under the law, meaning if you are within X years if the minor in question, it isn't statutory rape. Does anyone know what the age window is?
I'm not aware of specific "age windows" within the Code. I believe the distinction occurs when the accused is minor as well and is less than 3 years older than the victim, in which case it would mitigate the charge to a lesser offense. In your scenario, if the 18 year-old senior wasn't prosecuted it would probably be because the Commonwealth's Attorney decided that, based on the facts, it wasn't worth pursuing.
To those questioning whether or not he should have to "card the girl before he as sex with her", mistake of age is not a defense in the Commonwealth.
While I think it's fairly obvious they both have two feet in the grave at this point, it's important to remember they've only been criminally charged. Guilt or innocence has yet to be determined, although I think we all know how this will end up.
It's just sheer stupidity. Not to make light of the situation because the charges are serious, but as the late Robin Williams said "God gave men a penis and a brain and only enough blood to use one at a time".
Boom. 3 years. I'm innocent I swears it!
sooooo, is it too soon to ask how his knee is doing?
I know some people (#sources) that know the non player and they are telling me that they were tricked into thinking they were college students at a school in West Virginia, and were of age. The girls parents found the used condoms in the trash and proceeded to question them about it, when they found out the boys were that much older they called the police and pressed charges. If this is the case that's a tough situation to be in, but the court of public opinion is not where this should be dealt with.
Yeah while that might be true, they have to be smarter. It says in the report the sexual acts occurred during Feb 11-14. February 11 was a Wednesday, why would two students attending a college in West Virginia be home on a Wednesday? Doesn't make a whole lot of sense.
Spring Break.
Duh, the classic 2nd week of February Spring break line...gets em every time.
I mean I doubt that thought crosses their minds and even if some weak reason was given I doubt it was really vetted.
Yeah, I am going out on a limb here, pretty positive not much in this situation was vetted.
Agreed. Social media really kills any filter or Jimney Cricket. In some ways I think it's set us back more than moved us forward.
I believe it was on Tinder too, which doesn't even give you the person's last name or any useful information
They did this at the girl's parent's house? That makes it even more stupid than before!
That's still an awful excuse. Here's an idea: be a responsible division 1 starting RB and refrain from having sex with anyone you've known for less than a week.
He's a 19 year old kid, I'm sure he would have sex with someone he's known for less than an hour, being on the football team doesn't magically make you more responsible than anyone else your age.
What are you trying to say? Because everything you have posted on here sounds like you're trying to say what they did wasn't that big of a deal.
Then I'm sorry I am coming across that way. I am saying that people need to hold their judgements until all the facts come out and to not consider these kids guilty of committing a crime that they very well may have not been aware they were committing. I personally find it quite disgusting that a 19 year old kid had sex with a 15 year old, but those are not the only facts of this case. I am trying to give these two kids the benefit of the doubt because that is what they deserve.
You keep calling them kids, they are not kids. If you can vote, serve, own firearms, etc. you are no longer considered a kid. They are adult males. The females are kids.
BUT WE STILL CAN'T HAVE A BEER LEGALLY.
Rant over.
Pretty broad pen to mark all 19 year old males... some (more than most think) has a conscience that actually functions, which Shai apparently does not posses.
I'm admittedly not a D1 starting RB, but if I had refrained from having sex with anyone I had known less than a week, I would have had sex like three times throughout my college career. How about, don't have sex with anyone who you aren't 100% certain is over 18?
I think I'll stick with what I said, in regards to someone in his position. We can make excuses of why this isn't a big deal, why this happens to everyone else all the time, and so on but the fact that these guys went off a campus with 31,000+ undergrads to meet girls still in high school that they've probably never met is unacceptable. And not to mention, didn't the report state that the other guy is getting accused of knowing they were underaged? There just seem to be too many holes in this story that they had no idea that who they were messing with were underaged.
Oh I think this is a rather sizeable deal. I was just saying, putting a waiting period on it doesn't strike me as the way to go. If you know for a fact the girl is 18 then this type of shit never comes up. Meanwhile (and I'm NOT saying this is what happened here) you could catfish someone for a lot longer than a week.
Perhaps I was coming off a little too literal with the week thing. Another good point to be made here that I think you hit on: don't hook up with someone you only know through the Internet. Ever. When has this ever been a good idea or led to a happy ending? Especially with something like Tinder where people can put so much crap up that's not even half true. Someone said it earlier and I think I agree: I'm really starting to wonder whether or not the social media age is starting to set us up socially a step back. Services like Tinder and others just seem like the perfect way for a college kid to ruin his life.
???
I met my wife on the internet, been married now for over 11 years and have 2 kids. So far I'd say that's a pretty happy ending. Granted, you have to be careful, but there are happy endings.
Maybe a more accurate thing to say is that some of the more recently developed and popularized social apps, like Tinder, lead to more trouble than "good" (define good how you choose). Somewhat related to the point I just made, I bet someone has met their future spouse on Tinder, which is something that never crossed my mind until reading this thread. "Meeting a spouse on Tinder", chalk that up to things I never thought would cross my mind.
Me too, we were both in the same facebook group and participated in its discussion board pretty regularly. She visited family members that live about 30 minutes from me, so we met up at a Sonic for slushies and started dating long distance a couple weeks later. We will have been married for 4 years in July, no kids yet though.
Agree- there are thoughts in my head of far more disgusting, potential activity with these two given the circumstances (think underage girls, meeting on social media, etc.) I hope I'm wrong.
they couldn't prove that he bought them alcohol because he is underage himself. I understand that he could still provide them with alcohol, but with him being underage himself have any footing against these charges?
I wouldn't think so. I doubt it makes a difference how he came into possession of the alcohol for the purposes of charging under the contributing section.
He's only under age for the purpose of purchasing and consuming alcohol, for every other criminal act within the Commonwealth, he's an adult.
First Bucky, now Shai? I hate the off season!!!!!!!!!!
sorry, couldn't help it..
See, attrition always has a way of working itself out!
In all seriousness, though, Shai should probably be kicked off the team. These girls were 14 and 15. Many 14 year olds are in the 8th grade, and many 15 year olds are in the 9th grade.
Now, this isn't exactly new to Coach Beamer. Keep in mind what Marcus Vick and Mike Imoh were up to after the 2003 Insight Bowl. MV5 was suspended the whole 2004-05 season and Imoh the first 4 games. Imoh straightened himself out. MV5 didn't.
In my opinion, since Shai has not been redshirted yet, he should be suspended all of the 2015-16 season, and the redshirt will be used. Then, Beamer should make a judgment call after the season as to whether or not he should be reinstated for the 2016-17 season.
That's not unreasonable.
I read a lot of jokes, justification, etc. on this thread and it just sickens me. Let me put this in perspective.
I'm the father of seven kids. My youngest daughter was involved in a felony statutory rape case a few years ago (she was 14, as were the other victims...the guy was 18/19 at the time of the offenses). He was a lifeguard at the local community pool, my daughter was a competitive swimmer. He trolled Facebook and other social media sites...he knew exactly what he was doing. In her, and the other girls' eyes, he was older, cool (prominent parents in our town), an ex-athlete, whatever. You might be asking yourself, how could this happen under the watchful eye of a parent? Well, we dropped her off at the local high school pool, where she and her team had swim practice several nights/week for years. We came back to pick her up an hour later. Trust me, it doesn't take long.
I can honestly tell you that every single girl involved, including my daughter, has spent time in mental hospitals and are still seeking counseling. My daughter is taking some serious meds, and might be for the rest of her life. Some have transferred to other schools. All will live, and hopefully deal, with the emotional scars for the rest of their lives. So will the parents, including yours truly. My marriage crumbled under the strain (yes, there were other issues, but...). I could mention the financial strain on the family, but it might seem inconsequential in light of everything else. But trust me, it is not inconsequential.
The bastard pleaded out, was sentenced to 2.5 years, and was out after a little over a year. Yes, he will have to register as a sexual offender/predator for the rest of his life, but he was set up by his parents out of state and is attending college in the D.C. area. Yes, some of your daughters may be going to school with him now.
So, in my mind and experience, if there is any evidence that Shai knew what he or his friend was doing, good riddance. He's not a true Hokie. God help him, and the girls.
Dave,
This was incredibly painful to read, I can't imagine how it was to actually live through. I pray time will help heal your daughter, your family and the other victims.
Thanks for the perspective- reminding us that this is bigger than a game- there are real people involved that will have to cope with this for a long, long time. Some deserve our scorn and justice, others our compassion and understanding.
Having been a Rape Counselor for many years these stories of young children being attacked have always sickened me. No matter what anyone thinks it ALWAYS affects the victim.
Dave, I am very saddened to read this. I still keep in touch with a few of the women I worked with and if there is anything I can say that might make it better is that I have seen girls work their way through absolutely terrible circumstances and get back to fully functioning life. It takes a lot of determination and patience.... but it can happen. You sound like a great parent and I am sure that means the world to your little girl.
I wish I could be there to help ... but you and your daughter have my prayers.
From what I know of the situation and what they are being charged with the two students did not "attack" anyone, it was not against anyones will. You are making a comparison between two things that are very different and are making a hideous and unsubstantiated accusation against two kids.
dial it back dude. Especially since you don't know what the hell you're talking about.
1) I never accused Shai or his friend in what I said. So the only one making "a hideous and unsubstantiated accusation" is you.
2) Unfortunately for you you seem to neither understand the law nor the psychology of rape. Lets explain both to you so you can make more educated posts in the future:
By Law: Having sex with underage children is "statutory rape" and no matter the child is willing, coerced, drugged, physically held down it's still rape. Rape is an attack no matter how you want to excuse it, which you seem to want to do.
By Psychology: Unless you have either studied this or were a counselor I seriously doubt you have any idea what you're talking about. In fact, victims of rape whether as an assault or willing participant experience negative repercussions of those actions 100% of the time. Just because the girls didn't run to the police or that they got caught doesn't mean it won't affect them. Believing otherwise is both naive and stupid. Psychological impact on young girls having sex at young ages even with other same aged kids are found almost unilaterally, manifesting in a variety of ways. Low self esteem, shame, feeling the need to sleep around to fill a role, bridging behavior into more severe ways of acting out, distancing from friends and family, etc.
I see your posts here and you want to presume innocence, which is how it should be, but if you want to venture into telling me how this will affect these girls then you better have some serious experience to back that up. So far it's evident that you have zero. I was a Rape Counselor for 6 years before moving overseas. In those years I dealt with nearly 200 cases, 3 ultimately resulted in suicides. Your presumptions are far beyond your means to back it up.
Yeah that was a bit much on my part, my bad.
Heartfelt thoughts and prayers go out to you.
Please please look more in to the meds and consider other ways out for her.
http://www.psychforums.com/anti-psych/topic87174.html
https://www.youtube.com/watch?v=uFkivsEy3CI
Thanks, guys. The TKP is a great and supportive community.
It was very hard for me to submit the post above, as this is an intensely private matter that has not been discussed outside of my family (and of course with many legal and mental health professionals). All of us are doing our best to put this behind us. While my opinions about 18-19 year olds having sex with 13-15 year olds were not fully formed, maybe even a bit cavalier, before this experience, I hoped sharing my daughter's and family's pain helped put things into a better perspective for a few of you out there.
For years all I wanted was for the police and victim/witness staff (both of which were excellent, BTW) to just leave me in a room for 5 minutes with this guy. 5 minutes, and I would guarantee he would never hurt another girl again. If you were in my shoes, I bet most, if not all, of you would feel the same...at least initially.
The fact is, despite how some may feel that the "age of consent" is an arbitrary number, children that are 13-15 years old are just that, children. Despite their physical appearance or how they might act or dress, their minds are not fully formed and, for the most part, are not capable of making sound decisions with regards to "adult matters". There is a good reason why children of that age can't drive, drink, vote, serve in the military, and yes, have sex with adults.
My daughter is doing better after a scary few years of anxiety attacks, "cutting", aborted suicide attempts, tantrums involving police visits to the house, ambulance rides, emergency room visits, and hospitalization. She remains under psychiatric care, and also sees a therapist weekly. However, despite all of this, she will graduate from high school on time this June, and with 10 varsity letters for three different sports. I am very, very proud of her. Some of the girls involved with this case (there were at least four girls involved) did not or could not testify and I understand that. It takes an incredible amount of strength for a 14-15 year old girl to stand up to the process, which literally took years due to all the legal wrangling supported by the wealth of the guy's parents. A couple of the girls, including my daughter, did.
I'm not talking specifically about Shai or this case, as the legal process needs to work its way through, but for those of you who joke about sex with underage girls or think that this is in some way justifiable, think again. If you have a daughter (or son for that matter), look at them and just imagine for a moment what happened to my daughter and how you would feel if it happened to your own. Then, give them a hug, tell them you love them, and that you will do your best to always protect them from evil.
Thanks for sharing you and your daughter's experiences. I think its easy to get caught up with bashing or defending Shai because he's the person of interest to us while forgetting about the families/victims and the aftermath of the situation. Definitely put some things into perspective for me.
Are you posting from county correctional? I would be in for attempted murder if I were in your shoes.
I once knew a girl who looked older , taller and bigger than Jennifer lopez until she said she was 15. I ran away and didn't look back. Hopefully shai learned from the set up.
It takes 2 to tango. There could be 15 year old girls who are much more experienced than 18 year olds. To cast a blanket over every case equally is a mistake in the law IMO. You have to consider behavior of all parties involved. I'm going to refrain from passing judgment or saying Shai is a complete scumbag until more facts are known. She may have slept with more people than he has you just don't know nowadays.
I'm sorry even if that's true that's still no excuse. He's a collegiate man having sex with high schoolers. There are several thousand girls at Tech he could have hooked up with without issue. No excuse.
agreed. It takes two to tango, but only one to say: "Damn! You're how old?! I'm outta here!"
no excuse for dipping into the underage pool
Obviously there were poor decisions made here, most likely, but by all parties involved. Not knowing the facts, reading the comments, IF you met a girl online, who says she is of age, sends provocative pictures/texts, invites you over and is clearly "ready to go" and has done this before, then I can understand the poor decision I doubt he is checking IDs. Sure it may have occurred to him at some point that the girl was 15-18 but that's the norm, the hottest freshmen date the juniors and seniors. 18 year olds and 15 year olds have sex every day of every week and it isn't rape, or victimization, that's just how it is whether the laws have kept up with the times. 15 year olds today have sex and this isn't 30 years ago or even 15 years ago.
It is interesting how you make every possible negative assumption about the 15 yr old victim and every possible positive excuse/reasoning for the 19 yr old football player. The type of 'Blame the victim' mantra you espouse is what makes it so difficult for so many victims of sexual crimes to even report them.
No one's been charged with rape no one's been charged with battery that in and of itself tells you it's consensual, The rest is speculation on how they got together, how old did she say she was or how old did he think she was. All I'm saying is that 18-year-old and 15-year-old have consensual sex every day of every week all across this country on a regular basis and it probably should not be a crime.
Maybe so, but that doesn't make it ok
Especially when in his position. I don't really care how common it is for underaged kids to have sex, but when you're a freshman RB with huge upside and a promising career in front of you, just be smart. No one is asking him to be absolutely perfect and not have fun, but whatever you do, don't do that.
What makes it not ok? An arbitrary law with an arbitrary age determinant? Times change, customs change, laws change.
Are you serious?
This isn't up for debate. A college student having sex with someone young enough to be a high school freshman is simply not ok.
this isn't Afghanistan.
Actually, that is totally false. 'All you were saying' is nothing even close to 18 & 15 yr olds hook up every day of every week and that 'should' be legal.
What you said was essentially that the victim lured Shai in by lying to him, posting sexually charged photos, and completely entrapping him. There is absolutely ZERO foundation to any of those false charges by you, unless you're invested in blindly defending Hokie athletes no matter the distortions required to twist the falsehoods into excuses. You made every effort to paint Shai as innocent and naive, and the victim as a sexual predator preying on poor Hokie footballers.
It's amazing the lengths some will go to in order to absolve this type of behavior.
So if the guy were 15 and had sex with a 19 year old college girl is he a poor victim and she is a criminal? And for the sake of argument this 15 year old guy is a stud at his high school and has had sex with 50 girls? And if it isn't the same please explain why that isn't a gender stereotype
Which part of the law do you not understand?
Would you defend Shai - or even care about this - if he were not a scholarship athlete at VT?
Yes, in the eyes of the law that is the case. In the court of public opinion, not as much.
Not relevent. And as to this case, we have no evidence of the girl's previous sexual activity, and it doesn't matter anyway.
My stance in this case has been, and remains to be, let's see what the facts of the case are. Right now we know very little as fact, and are making judgments based on assumptions and emotion. IF he had sex with a 15 or 13 year old, then he should face all of the legal consequences of his actions (and whatever therapy needed to find out WTF is wrong with someone who would do that) and I would assume that his career in football is over. However, IF his role was minimal in the whole situation, then after facing whatever legal consequences, he may have the opportunity to return to the team.
Right now we simply don't have enough information with which to form an informed opinion either way about this case.
They were under the impression that the two girls were college students.
Do you have proof of that? I've seen nothing reported that makes that claim. It sounds amazingly like you are excusing Shai for doing this. All your posts seem to reflect the same intent to blame the victims and excuse the crime. Had this been a player for another program would you still be so eager to ignore the crimes? I feel certain you wouldn't.
I am not excusing either of the students, I am also not ignoring the accusations against them, I just want people to hold their judgement until all the facts come out because you owe that to any person who has been accused of a crime. And as for your insulting certainty that I wouldn't be defending a student of another school, you could not be more wrong. Only one of the accused is a football player and that has nothing to do with his crime nor with my feeling that the accused deserve due process and to not have their crimes adjudicated in the court of public opinion.
It is ironic that the concern you feel for the football player and plea for understanding is not extended to the 14 & 15 yr old victims. The assumptions you posted about their character is quite the opposite, actually. That is really unfortunate.
Really disappointed to hear this news. Absolutely dumb decision by these guys. Ignorance doesn't go very far in my eyes. You're a star athlete at VT with so much going for you and so much to lose - why someone would even remotely put himself is this spot is inexplicable. When you put on that VT uniform, you're not only representing yourself, but the entire university and everyone/everything that stands behind it. It's a complete privilege to play varsity sports at VT, and this sort of behavior looks bad on the entire university and athletics program.
I know the legal system still must run it's course, but if you are investigated and deemed culpable enough to be charged with such an offense, you very likely had some degree of involvement in most instances. I'm not sure how Beamer will handle this one yet. We know what happened with Mike Imoh's second chance...we also know what happened with Marcus'. We all know the lingering bad taste in everyone's mouth about that situation and the PR nightmare. Not saying Shai is either of these guys, but this definitely looks horrible and is terrible news to hear about such a promising player. Makes me absolutely sick. How some of these guys get themselves in these boneheaded situations is absolutely beyond me.
After having deliberated on this all afternoon, I have come to the conclusion that regardless of the specifics, Shai McKinzie is a dumbass I'd really rather not have representing my alma mater as a student athlete.
Well said.
Can we at least give it 48 hours. Everything I Google says it's a "request for DNA." This just came out today and I'll say the same thing I've said 1,000x before (not always here). Get angry (natural reaction), take a deep breath, don't condemn people to the fiery pits of hell based off of something you read 5 minutes ago (or a few hours ago as it is because I just saw it now and everyone is saying the same exact thing since then).
If something fishy pops up do something. Overreacting to everything that happens in the moment some reporter gets a scoop does nothing but desensitize everyone from real problems.
Nope.
I gave it about six hours. That was enough. For probably 90% of all charges I am completely in favor of restraint and allowing the process to play out fully. I supported Cody Journell being allowed back onto the team after pleading down, and still do even though it didn't work out with him. In general I am a firm believer in second chances.
This isn't a crucify Shai reaction. The judicial process will determine his guilt or innocence and his life will go on. Regardless of what that process entails or reveals, the position Shai has placed himself in is not something I want associated with Virginia Tech. I bear him no ill will, but I do not want him as an ambassador of my alma mater after this.
So..just for argument's sake..lets say that the DNA test comes back and it wasn't Shai. The cops say "oops..my bad...we were wrong on this one..he wasn't involved.." Does he still deserve to be dismissed from the team?
I'm not condoning ANY of what may have happened. Just something to think about. We really DON'T know the whole story and to either purge him of any guilt, or condemn him at this point is a disservice to the judicial process.
Once again and to further articulate my position, guilt or innocence is not my concern. Let the judicial process play out.
In the event there was a colossal blunder by local police and Shai was literally not involved in this incident whatsoever, as in literally not even on scene when it occurred, I will revisit my position, but I have enough faith in the Blacksburg and Christiansburg PD to be very surprised if this turns out to be the case.
In general I believe in letting college kids be college kids. But this situation meets my personal threshold to say, no, regardless of what the court decides on the technicalities of the issues, I don't want this young man representing my school.
Again, accepting that if it turns out that Shai was literally uninvolved and unaware of what was going on (and I DON'T mean not knowing the girls weren't 18 but rather not knowing the girls existed on this plane of reality) then I reserve the right to change my mind.
This is my view. Either he was too stupid to realize that he was being misled by a high school freshman or he knowingly committed a crime. In the event these girls turn out to be the greatest con artists since Frank Abagnale Jr, I'll cut him some slack.
So sad that some people have this "If she's old enough to pee she's old enough for me!" attitude!!!
That attitude is just so fucked up.
Stupid Boys made mistake online and by getting into a car and heading to Christiansburg they put thermselves in a position with zero probability of a positive outcome. I'm sure they have been warned about this and they should have known better regardless.. Only thing worse would have been if that dateline/20/20 child preditor guy was at house to greet them.
Alright, I haven't read through all the comments since between the time I left work and now, over 150 new comments were added to this thread. But, I've had time to think about this situation and understand more about what's going on. So here's what I've got. Based upon the charges, Shai did not have sex with the girls. I think this can nearly be guaranteed because if they have condoms and DNA samples, they know who used the condoms. Contributing to the delinquency means that he likely did something like helped them get alcohol (even though he isn't 21) or other issue. But if the charges issued are any indication of what happened, Shai did not have sex with the girls and is not a sex offender. Now, that does not mean that he isn't responsible for what happened. He definitely needs to pick his friends better, something many people learn throughout their life. There is still a lot more to deal with in this situation and surely more of the legal process, but I thought I'd share my opinion and thoughts.
Read the VA statute. It is not just for providing alcohol, etc. to minors.
https://leg1.state.va.us/cgi-bin/legp504.exe?000+cod+18.2-371
Fair enough, I was incorrect based upon my understanding of the law. But my understanding, based upon the charges, is that he would not be forced to be a registered sex offender due to this. Again, it is not clear which part of 18.2-371 he is falling under, but naturally the worst is assumed.
The Roanoke Times article elaborates a little bit more on the charges:
or older? meaning what? possibly 17? so a 19 year old had sex with a 17 year old (possibly because at this point all we can do is speculate) would everyone feel the same way if thats what came to be fact?
He does NOT have to register if convicted.
From my reading of the article linked above, it seems pretty clear that he is in fact being charged with having consensual sex with the 15 year old girl.
Not necessarily. If he had sex with a person between 15 and 17 then that would be contributing.
So, I have purchased 4 VT jerseys: Marcus Vick (w/ special orange sleeve), Brandon Ore, Ryan Williams, and Shai McKenzie...sorry guys, only Ryan didn't get suspended.
I just bought Shai in December because I love his running style, he wears my old race car number, and I needed a fresh VT jersey....Guess I'll print my name on the back?
Lee Suggs wore #22, just say it's his jersey.
That is what I have done for years... Of course I bought my jersey when Suggs still wore the number.
Me too.
Why cant we have nice things at tech?
two stud freshman RBs..... two torn ACLs and well This situation
Montrez Harrell Decommit
Michael Vick basically losing his sophomore season to injuries
Marcus Vick- speaks for itself
it seems like anything good we get at Tech something happens.
Are we sure Lane Stadium and Cassell arent built on an indian burial ground????
We got Cartoons Plural...
That's certainly a negative way of looking at it. How about this?
As unfortunate as the McKenzie story is and not to push away the importance of peoples' lives here, how about how many promising young RBs we still have either coming in or already high on the depth chart for next year?
Yep, lost Montrezl Harrell to one of the best basketball schools in the nation, yet we still had the nation's leading scorer that year with Erick Green.
The Mike Vick thing sucked, but under his leadership and taking us to the title game, VT football was put on the national stage.
I really can't defend Marcus Vick here, but maybe some of the mistakes he made will serve as lessons to the guys coming in and still here.
There have been plenty of times when I've really thought cheering for any other professional team must be so much better due to the fact I am a lifelong Redskins and Wizards fan, but when it comes to collegiate athletics, there is no other team I'd rather root for than the Hokies.
Agreed. The counterpoint is all the good things our team does:
Hokies Helping Heroes - $37k from lifting weights
Slye's Selfless Selfies
Danny Coale visiting a children's hospital in C-ville (of all places) in full Hokie gear
School outreach programs - Sam Rogers, Kendall Fuller, and Luther Maddy have all been featured in print and online media
And how many of our guys graduate with a degree? Nearly all, and a lot of them get multiple degrees and go on to be highly successful.
The list goes on. I am damn proud of the vast majority of our Hokies that consistently make good decisions and affect positive change in the world.
Herma's Readers
Im not being negative about it im being honest.
Yes we have other good Running backs but we all know when all are healthy shai is the best.
Yes we had Erick Green BUT we could have had Montrez DFS and Erick
We have also lost Emelogu, Trevor Thompson, ben boggs, manny adkins, robert brown, barksdale, JVZ must I keep going.
not to mention all the injuries we have every year. (I know every team has injuries) we just seem to have more critical ones.
Brandon Facyson looked like a breakout star (and he still might) boom injury. It just seems like we cant catch a break lately. somebody rub a lucky rabbits foot and get this thing back on track.
What a miserable way to look at life.
We've had a lot of success over the long haul, but to consistently focus on purely the negative like that?
And for the record, 7 days a week and twice on Sunday I'll take the team we are fielding over any of the kids you're listing in this pity party. Why? Because these kids are busting their ass for Virginia Tech and not running away when the going gets tough like so many of our transfers did. And the others, who got in trouble with the law and as such were dismissed from the program? Their actions don't deserve the pity.
they may b busting their butts but that National title case is empty and we just finished last n the acc for the 4th straight year.
And yet life still goes on.
Holy crap. We were last in the ACC when we got an at-large bid to the Sugar Bowl?
Hoops
How can you tell? He changes subjects at random, midsentence.
Just because I know we finished last in the ACC in hoops.
I still contend that Marshawn is a better back and will be better for us.
Higher ceiling. Thought that from the start. You and I are in the minority tho.
I'm still on the Drew Harris bandwagon. when he enrolls in 2035, watch out
Yeah I'm hopeful for him and Chris Mangu....
aw I made myself feel bad again
2035 is his son, Drew Harris, Jr.
Eh, Williams showed some flashed last year but I think we have several backs on the roster that are/will be better. Williams doesnt get out of the backfield fast enough, which is not good for our o-line. I cant stand when we have a 3rd and short of 4th and short and let the whole world know what we are doing by bringing Williams in and he gets stuffed.
McMillian seems to have a higher ceiling and Edmunds results have been better. And they arent having to come back from an ACL.
I see that as more of an issue of the line collapsing than it being Marshawn's slowness. Marshawn is a power back. He will never get out of the backfield as quick as JCC or Trey, and TBH he probably is a little slower than his size would warrant. He needs to work on that. But he runs with authority and will truck a defender a la Darren Evans. I think if he has a solid lightning back to complement his thunder it could be something special.
WE don't ALL know Shai is the best back when healthy. IMO, he is one of a number of similarly good, but not great, backs who have differing strengths and weaknesses. I know stats aren't everything, but don't forget, he only had all of 76 yards on 26 carries in 3 games vs teams not named Bill & Mary and Directional Michigan.
I know folks don't like to hear this stuff, but IMO, there is no back currently on (or suspended from) the roster right now even as good as Darren Evans or Brandon Ore, let alone Ryan Williams, David Wilson, Kevin Jones, Lee Suggs, etc.
If you put a gun to my head, I would probably put Trey Edmunds ahead of McKenzie and Williams when healthy. Probably...
You're right, it would be very difficult to argue if McKenzie was or wasn't the best RB in our backfield last year due to such a small sample size of games. He only played against 2 Power-5 teams and only accumulated 58 total yds in those games. Given, the defenses (GT and anOSU) were pretty stout against the run (Newsome was our leading rusher vs anOSU with a whopping 38 yds) but he was our leading rusher vs GT. Like I said and you implied, not really a large enough sample size of games to argue one way or the other for McKenzie.
No...Then that means!
I mentioned this to my friend at work and he said he knew about about this situation weeks ago, but didn't know who was involved. Apparently this happened at a frat party (the frat will go unnamed) and all the members of the frat are sweating bullets because they know they're going to get their charter revoked.
After reading the police report, these could be two completely separate incidents. I hope not, though, because apparently the incident at the frat house also involved football players.
The news story on Shai says they met on social media then he and his friend went to this girl's house in Christiansburg, so your friend is must be talking about something else. Hopefully there's not another issue on the horizon....
I am high on McMillian and Reid right now because what I have read about those 2 impressing on the scout team, using the weight room to their advantage and transforming their bodies, and Shane says McMillian he believes is the most gifted of all the backs I think we are truly blessed and Coleman is a senior but McClease broke all of Colemans records at Oscar Smith. The position looks awesome and if Shai can't behave then someone who was rated higher but has been ran around and just wants to play (Joel Caleb) should get that chance and along with Coleman and Edmunds they can be the top 3. McMillian and Reid can work their way into the lineup and Williams can redshirt along with McClease and Fox, and we will see how things work out with Shai legally now. I have to say with all the depth at the position the starter is not safe as Shane has said and messing up as far as character is concerned is really dumb it just makes the depth chart easier for the coaches to figure out.
I find it hard to believe Shai comes back from this, if it was me I'd be too embarrassed to play or even go to school there now...
He is done, there goes a full ride down the toliet. His parents are surely disappointed.
Hey, maybe if we paid college players so that they realized the had even more to lose ... Nah bad idea that would never work. Can you just imagine the salary cap hit this would cause.