Yeah, as someone who got in and considered going to OU, I find it hard to believe this guy was truly dead set on going there. These actions in no way reflect the attitudes of the student body, and I know for a fact some other schools (cough cough sec) have much deeper racial problems ingrained in their university.
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An Oklahoma legislative committee overwhelmingly voted to ban Advanced Placement U.S. History class, persuaded by the argument that it only teaches students "what is bad about America."
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Well considering that the AP class includes a helpful diagram that lists Clarence Thomas at the fringe of the political right, labeling him a fascist on par with the KKK, I'd say that there's some reason for concern, both in terms of ideology & in terms of what the definition of fascism is.
I think this should probably drop here though -- this is an inherently political topic.
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AP History Curriculum standards were changed last year.
The reasons the OK legistlature has a problem with it is far more nuanced than the suggestion they think history doesn't need to be taught.
One could fairly ask what changes were made that created such a fuss. One could fairly ask why any changes were needed at all, other than an update of the curriculum to reflect contemporary events.
I figured I'd get in a comment early to let people know the issue was far more complicated than the original comment implied.
Unfortunately, the discussion would pretty quickly turn into an ideological one, so I'm not terribly interested in pursuing it, other than to suggest others look elsewhere for details before forming a solid opinion.
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Where, pray tell, should we look for these details? You strayed into the overtly political with the Clarence Thomas comments, and the OK legislature's problems with it are not surprising to me, frankly. However, I think most objective observers would have no trouble characterizing Justice Thomas as on the fringe of the right wing. As for the fascism and KKK stuff, I would have to read more about what they said to make a comment on that conflation.
I, for one, am willing to take the comments of the athlete at face value. Racism is alive and well all over the world, but when confronted with graphic instances, perhaps that was plenty enough for that kid to decommit.
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I'm going to do my best impression of "Not Mike London" and call a timeout here.
We're approaching a line of what is going to set people off. No politics here, period. This sub-thread should stop here, please. I was going to mention this the other day, but the thread got buried and went kind of dormant, but since it's become active again, I need to say this.
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My bad, GuitarMan, and I apologize to all with more self control than myself. You are absolutely correct and I overrode my governor with my post. I was set off, and that should have been all it should have taken to shut me up. This site is way too important to me to get in trouble with the moderators, or anyone else. Hope I will be forgiven.
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I actually wouldn't be surprised if AP classes go the way of the do-do bird shortly. They've run their course and studies are starting to show that now, since entrance to those classes have been relaxed, kids that have no business in classes that tough are starting to take them with alarming regularity, which is really hurting the programs themselves. Its causing the classes to really slow down, with teachers not able to make it through entire curriculum because they're having to spend too much time making sure kids keep up, all the while dropping GPAs across the board while kids struggle in classes they shouldn't be in. Even worse, the kids who should be in those classes are being held out because in most cases, the demand to take them is so high that schools have had to adopt a lottery process to grant kids entrance. And to make things worse, many universities are beginning to eliminate AP credit towards college admission because of these issues.
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since entrance to those classes have been relaxed, kids that have no business in classes that tough are starting to take them with alarming regularity
I can't speak for any other schools but mine was pretty much:
Me: "I want to take AP"
School: "Ok."
But it was that way for everything not named IB. As someone looking at becoming a teacher and who has a fair amount of friends that are teachers, can I just say that our entire education system is seriously effed up. It really pisses me off. Teach high school like you teach college, keep up or be left behind. If the strain is too much, take a different class.
I realize that I'm now also approaching serious political territory and I don't want to start a debate so I'll step aside now.
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Tangent Inception: If I remember correctly, the dodo bird was at the apex of its ecosystem when man arrived. It had no natural predators. We showed up and killed all of them. Because of that, I've always found it sick and twisted that we started using them as an example of a poorly evolved animal when in fact, they were a perfectly evolved animal until our 'enlightened' species showed up and wiped them out.
We could all have dodo birds as pets right now, guys....smh.
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I don't suppose it would make you feel any better to know that 99.9 % of the species that ever lived on Earth went extinct before we loathsome humans first tasted another animal?
Any species that is "perfectly evolved" for its ecosystem is destined for extinction when you consider things like the natural regularity with which the Earth's climate changes across the eons; localized and even global disasters caused by plate tectonics, vulcanism, & impactors from space; and even "perfectly evolved" creatures eating themselves out of existence due to any number of non-human interlocutors ranging from other predators to disease finding their way into the ecosystem and wreaking havoc with the balance.
It's sad to see any species go the way of the Dodo, and certainly we should work within reason to prevent that from happening, but I don't feel guilt over the actions of people who lived long ago under rules of survival that are nearly incomprehensible to the average person inhabiting the comfy ecosystem of the Internet.
The sentiment that today, or 100 years ago, was the perfect natural balance and should never be deviated from ignores the broader history, and the reality of the non-closed system we live in.
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I wouldn't totally conflate Jean Delance's decommitment from OU with SAE scandal. Figured this was coming after Texas, A&M offers.— Max Olson (@max_olson) March 9, 2015
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"It was very disturbing. I never thought that stuff was still trendy as much as it was back then or it could keep repeating itself. It was very disturbing. I didn't like what was going on. I'm glad the way they handled it but that's still a bad downside to me," Delance said.
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Right, and it could have been an easy out for him.
How often does a committed recruit say something like "Well, I committed to X college but Y and Z colleges just offered and I think I might like them better so I'm decommitting"
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I've never, ever heard a kid say something like what I typed above. Even when fanbases KNOW that a decommit means he's flipping to X school (ala Dwayne Lawson) you'll never hear "I'd rather go there".
All I'm saying is that the above tweet I posted is worth noting. I'm sure the video did bother him (because who wasn't disturbed by it?) but this may have been in the works already.
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It will be interesting to see where he ends up committing because there are plenty of "football schools" that undoubtedly have a similar culture among fraternities (see: Borat). He's welcome to make whatever decision is best for him, but it also wouldn't be the first time a kid used a volatile situation to get out of a commitment (see: Gus Gilchrist).
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Comments
Yeah, as someone who got in and considered going to OU, I find it hard to believe this guy was truly dead set on going there. These actions in no way reflect the attitudes of the student body, and I know for a fact some other schools (cough cough sec) have much deeper racial problems ingrained in their university.
Meanwhile, in the state legislature
Wouldn't want people knowing history or anything like that.
Well considering that the AP class includes a helpful diagram that lists Clarence Thomas at the fringe of the political right, labeling him a fascist on par with the KKK, I'd say that there's some reason for concern, both in terms of ideology & in terms of what the definition of fascism is.
I think this should probably drop here though -- this is an inherently political topic.
I just looked up what you were taking about, and it's not the AP curriculum. Just a third party study guide
Fair enough.
AP History Curriculum standards were changed last year.
The reasons the OK legistlature has a problem with it is far more nuanced than the suggestion they think history doesn't need to be taught.
One could fairly ask what changes were made that created such a fuss. One could fairly ask why any changes were needed at all, other than an update of the curriculum to reflect contemporary events.
I figured I'd get in a comment early to let people know the issue was far more complicated than the original comment implied.
Unfortunately, the discussion would pretty quickly turn into an ideological one, so I'm not terribly interested in pursuing it, other than to suggest others look elsewhere for details before forming a solid opinion.
Where, pray tell, should we look for these details? You strayed into the overtly political with the Clarence Thomas comments, and the OK legislature's problems with it are not surprising to me, frankly. However, I think most objective observers would have no trouble characterizing Justice Thomas as on the fringe of the right wing. As for the fascism and KKK stuff, I would have to read more about what they said to make a comment on that conflation.
I, for one, am willing to take the comments of the athlete at face value. Racism is alive and well all over the world, but when confronted with graphic instances, perhaps that was plenty enough for that kid to decommit.
I'm going to do my best impression of "Not Mike London" and call a timeout here.
We're approaching a line of what is going to set people off. No politics here, period. This sub-thread should stop here, please. I was going to mention this the other day, but the thread got buried and went kind of dormant, but since it's become active again, I need to say this.
My bad, GuitarMan, and I apologize to all with more self control than myself. You are absolutely correct and I overrode my governor with my post. I was set off, and that should have been all it should have taken to shut me up. This site is way too important to me to get in trouble with the moderators, or anyone else. Hope I will be forgiven.
No trouble at all. Just a reminder to everyone; I just happened to respond to you :)
And I took it that way.
Tangent time...
I actually wouldn't be surprised if AP classes go the way of the do-do bird shortly. They've run their course and studies are starting to show that now, since entrance to those classes have been relaxed, kids that have no business in classes that tough are starting to take them with alarming regularity, which is really hurting the programs themselves. Its causing the classes to really slow down, with teachers not able to make it through entire curriculum because they're having to spend too much time making sure kids keep up, all the while dropping GPAs across the board while kids struggle in classes they shouldn't be in. Even worse, the kids who should be in those classes are being held out because in most cases, the demand to take them is so high that schools have had to adopt a lottery process to grant kids entrance. And to make things worse, many universities are beginning to eliminate AP credit towards college admission because of these issues.
Kind of agree... Just let kids take calc at a nearby community college or commuter school.
I can't speak for any other schools but mine was pretty much:
Me: "I want to take AP"
School: "Ok."
But it was that way for everything not named IB. As someone looking at becoming a teacher and who has a fair amount of friends that are teachers, can I just say that our entire education system is seriously effed up. It really pisses me off. Teach high school like you teach college, keep up or be left behind. If the strain is too much, take a different class.
I realize that I'm now also approaching serious political territory and I don't want to start a debate so I'll step aside now.
Tangent Inception: If I remember correctly, the dodo bird was at the apex of its ecosystem when man arrived. It had no natural predators. We showed up and killed all of them. Because of that, I've always found it sick and twisted that we started using them as an example of a poorly evolved animal when in fact, they were a perfectly evolved animal until our 'enlightened' species showed up and wiped them out.
We could all have dodo birds as pets right now, guys....smh.
I don't suppose it would make you feel any better to know that 99.9 % of the species that ever lived on Earth went extinct before we loathsome humans first tasted another animal?
Any species that is "perfectly evolved" for its ecosystem is destined for extinction when you consider things like the natural regularity with which the Earth's climate changes across the eons; localized and even global disasters caused by plate tectonics, vulcanism, & impactors from space; and even "perfectly evolved" creatures eating themselves out of existence due to any number of non-human interlocutors ranging from other predators to disease finding their way into the ecosystem and wreaking havoc with the balance.
It's sad to see any species go the way of the Dodo, and certainly we should work within reason to prevent that from happening, but I don't feel guilt over the actions of people who lived long ago under rules of survival that are nearly incomprehensible to the average person inhabiting the comfy ecosystem of the Internet.
The sentiment that today, or 100 years ago, was the perfect natural balance and should never be deviated from ignores the broader history, and the reality of the non-closed system we live in.
Worth noting:
Except the kid was interviewed last night and confirmed the SAE situation was what caused him to decommit.
North Mesquite recruit de-commits from Oklahoma after racist video
Right, and it could have been an easy out for him.
How often does a committed recruit say something like "Well, I committed to X college but Y and Z colleges just offered and I think I might like them better so I'm decommitting"
He could have said that but didn't. Kids decommit all the time but he took the time to explain why it was greater than football for him.
I've never, ever heard a kid say something like what I typed above. Even when fanbases KNOW that a decommit means he's flipping to X school (ala Dwayne Lawson) you'll never hear "I'd rather go there".
All I'm saying is that the above tweet I posted is worth noting. I'm sure the video did bother him (because who wasn't disturbed by it?) but this may have been in the works already.
It will be interesting to see where he ends up committing because there are plenty of "football schools" that undoubtedly have a similar culture among fraternities (see: Borat). He's welcome to make whatever decision is best for him, but it also wouldn't be the first time a kid used a volatile situation to get out of a commitment (see: Gus Gilchrist).
a recruit shouldn't base his decision solely on one factor. Likewise he shouldn't base a decommitt on one factor.