His measurables are enough to be hopeful about. If he can keep his speed and has the agility and bend he will stick at DE. I am a little cautious to expect too much right away but his future looks bright.
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I'm trying to remember. It really seems to me like it was redshirt year, complete silence from Wiles, move to OL, then career finished due to injury. After he was actually inside the program, the only buzz I remember about him was from message boards. I picked him to be a breakout player his redshirt freshman year, so the silence surrounding him was particularly noticeable to me.
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Acree was an odd case because he was a really early commit and those photos of him being jacked came out really early. I believe you are right in that by the time he got on campus, we knew he couldn't play. Nijman is the opposite in that nobody had heard of him 4 months ago. That is a similarity with Nicolas/Estime.
But they are similar in that they are physical freaks. Jake Johnson was another physical freak that we thought was going to be a great player for us but it didn't translate.
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Not gonna lie, watching Nijman line up opposite Keihn is pretty comical. Charlie Wiles coaches a "speed to power" approach technique-wise, so I guess it's fitting that his stud and end combination inherently fit that.
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My memory is the reaction on message boards was similar to that of most higher ranked recruits who redshirt. Rumors and assumptions mixed in with a heavy dose of irrational exuberance...
My recollection is that it wasn't until his r-So yr that expectations really began to taper. But I've been told my memory isn't what it used to be, soooo...
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The amount of time Nijman plays this year will be directly related to how much tecnique he learns. Despite his size, I don't think he is going to be bull-rushing people like he did in high school. I am not expecting too much this year from him but next year and the year after, watch out.
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Then there's Nijman... two inches taller and 20 pounds heavier than all of the other defensive ends.
In all seriousness, wasnt his offseason weight larger than this? Sounds like he slimmed down, which is good great. I simply cannot wait for this young fellow BAMF to develop fully.
#ALL THE SACKS
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I like big dominating ends at the point of attack. However, Bud's system (except when playing the bear because one DE is slid down in a three tech or a 30 front) requires his ends to penetrate and then get flat down the line. I didn't see that kind of change of direction or quickness from Nijman. Part of that is that he grew so much and is still getting comfortable in his body. If the light goes on and he can play fast, he may be great. But, if what I saw on film is what he will be for the remainder of his career, Bud would have to change the way his DE's play for Nijman to be effective.
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question that this article makes me think of. Is a 5 star DE recruit really attracted to VT defense? we always say if we start getting these 5 stars in Bud's system then watch out but isn't Nijman pro-size DE? Would someone like Bosa at anOSU be an end here or be moved to DT or OL?
The way the article reads is that he is fighting to stay where he loves and is a hair away from being moved somewhere else.
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If Bud Foster got Joey Bosa, he would play Joey Bosa any damn where he wanted. Guys only get moved if they can't play the position in the system.
A 5 star DE would be attracted to VT if
- he wants to be productive
- is quick and comfortable squeezing back side pursuit
- is sound in playing contain play side against the run
Generally, bigger DE's struggle with that backside pursuit (JR Collins stood out in 2011 as a bigger DE playing flat down the line, but had to angle out in order to be effective. Offenses started to run at him and it negated his ability to play at a 45 degree angle off the snap.) However, when you get a special once in a lifetime player, he can do all those things listed above at a bigger weight. Fact of the matter is, the Hokies have not had that once in a lifetime talent. Of the bunch, Nathaniel Adibi was probably closest to the mold, although Cornell Brown played like he was 6'5 265. Worilds, Moore, and Tapp were outstanding SYSTEM guys, not elite talents that could be successful in any system.
Ultimately, the position change thing is what it is. If you pick VT and you want to play, the coaches will put you where you have your best chance to be successful. For some, it hasn't worked. However, I don't hear people complaining about Wyatt Teller and Bucky Hodges.
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If Bud Foster got Joey Bosa, he would play Joey Bosa any damn where he wanted. Guys only get moved if they can't play the position in the system.
But doesn't this mean the answer to my question is: Yes, those recruits won't be interested to play at VT.
If Bosa, who by from what I have seen has never faced the notion of being moved from DE fits at DE and is a star at DE in other programs, but is a probable move to DT or OL in our system, then isn't there something wrong with our system? Shouldn't our system be able to work with this caliber or player no matter what? Isn't converting DE's into DT's the same idea of turning TE's into OL, albeit with more success?
The argument with Bucky and Teller seem not comparable to me. Bucky was buried in depth chart with a screwy throwing motion. His route to the field was somewhere else. That became evident and he had to change.
Teller though could be our best defensive player. Frankly, we don't know. In his recruitment he flat out stated he would only consider schools that would play him on defense, and here he is on offense. I'm not saying that's the wrong move, but that was a move made from depth issues. Not because Teller couldn't find the field on the defensive side or become a star there.
I'm not trying to start any argument here. I just have never seen a real answer to it. If I was a 5 star recruit like Bosa that played DE, loved it, and wanted to stay there I wouldn't go to a program that has a tendency to move my size to DT. It's like the trials of us building a program with 3* players where we relied on speed is inhibiting us from taking it the next level to get the 5* players that play at the positions they have been playing their whole career and want to stay there in college. Seems like that's how 5* recruits think to me, though being thousands of miles away I base that purely on empirical reasoning based on internet supplied fanhood.
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I'm not sure how you got "those recruits won't be interested to play at VT" from his answer?
He (correctly, IMO) said that Joey Bosa would play anywhere he wanted in the VT system...and then you proceed to state that a Joey Bosa (who I happen to think is a tad overrated, but that's another discussion) would be a "probable move to DT or OL" in the VT system and base your entire premise on that (false, IMO) notion.
It just so happens that many big guys lack the speed & explosiveness and many fast/quick guys lack the power to play DE (or whatever position)...thus they move to another position.
The problem isn't that VT wouldn't play keep a 6'5" 265lb guy with speed and explosiveness at DE; the problem is that they don't exactly grow on trees and the handful that do exist in each class are valuable commodities that are being courted by everybody.
The other thing here is that I think folks assume the coaches say "you're moving" and that's that. There's probably some push and some pull. Many of these kids want to get on the field and/or have a dream of playing in the NFL. A good dose of reality can factor into the whole decision process to change positions as well. You get your ass handed to you enough times at a particular position and the switch to a less preferred, but better suited, position suddenly becomes more palatable.
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By Frenchs own account, Mihota is explosive enough to get a look at DE. But now instead of learning techniques that will help him at DE, all of his progress will be at DT. Even Bosa wasn't a beast when he came in freshman year. They let him develop. I mean Bosa was the 5th ranked SDE and Teller was the 9th that year. Not exactly a world of talent difference. The point is that VT is much less inclined to keep someone at DE than other programs, and that is a negative when it comes to recruiting. Its not like we have the NFL results to back it up
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You're giving the rankings way more credit than they deserve. It's bad enough to put absolute faith in the star rankings, but even worse to put faith in the assigned positions and the positional rankings.
In reality, Teller was probably more like the 39th best DE prospect and the 9th best OL prospect. I'm willing to bet that privately the VT coaches knew this before he set foot on campus. If Teller was truly the 9th best DE prospect, there's absolutely no way he doesn't stay at DE if he wants to play DE.
You claim that VT is less inclined to keep guys at DE than other programs...is there any evidence to back this up? My observation is that most programs move guys around from their preferred/rating service assigned positions.
IMO, the bottom line is that while the Beamer-era VT has gotten some good DE recruits, it has never gotten an elite recruit at DE. Now one can argue is it the chicken or the egg why that is so, but given that reality, VT simply keeps the truest DE's that fit VT's scheme at DE and moves the truer DT's, OL's & Backers from DE to those positions.
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appreciate the response. very well thought out. but here's how i got to that:
my question: do 5* recruits find vt unappealing because our system moves pro-size from positions they want to play? (adding that from what i have seen 5* recruits do not want to move and using Bosa as example of the size that gets moved)
answer given: he will play wherever Foster plays him.
conclusion: 5* recruits (whether entitled or not) expect to play where they are recruited at, and therefore knowing VT will not do that, will be more attracted to program's with systems that can play pro-size blue chip players at the positions they expect to.
I'm not saying that it's simply a me first attitude though, rather they know they are good enough to have a chance to be the top 2% and having worked 4+ years at a position are not willing to entertain a move.
you make two points that a) vt would play players at that size and speed at end, but it's not as if james gayle was a burner or anything. (unless i remember that incorrectly) he was just naturally instinctive and explosive. and we have moved fast players like marshall inside.
and second point b) that these players don't grow on trees, which is really my point. if they don't grow on trees why are we moving them inside all the time?
I am not trying to argue against players getting moved at all. what i am talking about is our inability to land these blue chip DL recruits, specifically at DE which is a highlight reel position in our system. why aren't they attracted to it? my premise is that we have a precedent of moving pro-size DE's inside and for 5* recruits they , rightly or wrongly, do not want to be moved.
I think what you and French say is extremely smart but it hasn't answered the question for me, rather just lends me to believe I may be right.
again, if I was Bosa and I am top DE coming from HS and I am considering my top 2 programs, OSU and VT. All other things being equal, I will look at my path to playing time at where I want to play. One system plays pro-size DE's and one system has precedent of moving larger DE's to DT or even OL. that doesn't mean that's what Foster would do, but if I am Bosa I am going where that "risk" is eliminated.
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FWIW, I interpreted French's answer to mean, "If Foster landed Bosa, Foster would play Bosa anywhere Bosa wanted."
Which I turn I thought meant that we will attract 5* DE recruits who can play DE the way we require it to be played.
In turn, you are correct that we might not be top pick for a lot of blue chip DE recruits because we will still require them to earn the position once they arrive. If another school guarantees you'll stay at DE and we don't, a lot of recruits will go elsewhere.
Having said that, I prefer the way we do it. We're a system defense. We can't be successful having DEs that don't fit the bill in Foster's system, so IMO we're better off molding lower ranked recruits with the necessary twitch and skill set than we would be playing NFL caliber DEs who might not be good fits in the system.
And finally, regarding Teller, I remember his high school coach said he might be very good on defense, but he could be a Pro Bowl offensive lineman. He was only considering schools who would give him a shot on defense, and we did give him a shot. But I think he would up exactly where he needs to be.
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Also with Teller, he volunteered to switch positions. Obviously all the coaches accepted the switch but I never saw it reported as being anything more than him asking to switch to help the team.
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yeah, I have no issues with Teller being asked to switch or him switching. But it's not comparable to the question because him switching doesn't mean he couldn't have been a stud on defense, it just means we had depth issues and he switched to help the team and is a stud on offense.
my question is about appeal to 5* recruits.
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I guess the pronoun is mixing that up for me because as it reads it says Foster will play him wherever Foster wants. And really i don't think that Bud would let Bosa or any kid dictate where they play to him. Do you?
I think every program that is recruiting 5* recruits still require them to earn the spot. Again that is not what I am saying.
What you are saying about the system we use is more apt to what I am talking about to which you are basically saying: we are better off playing non-5* recruits that fit our system than change our system to fit 5* recruits.
If that's the case then lets just all accept that and stop being upset when we lose out on 5* DE's in the future.
But that still lends to prove my hypothesis, no?
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Yes, I agree with your assessment. But then again, I'm not someone who gets really bent out of shape when we miss on 5 star DEs. Wiles has proven he can manufacture stars from lower-rated recruits there. It would be NICE get them, don't get me wrong, but I don't think it's as big a threat to the program to miss there than at corner, for instance. In other words I think we would have been worse off had we missed on Mook instead of Sweat, and again it's because of our system.
And I hate pronouns.
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I remember a while back, two or three years leand I can't remember if it was here or Tech Sideline, I floated the idea that we didn't land top DEs because Wiles didn't know how to coach them. He is accustomed to teaching a very specific style of play, and if blue chip DEs come in with a different style of play he can't coach them.
I've refined my opinion a bit on Wiles since then. It isn't just him as a position coach, it's the entire defense that requires a very specific role from our DEs, and twitch is valued above almost all other measurables. Larger DEs almost never have the twitch to be what we need DEs to be.
I've never understood the handwringing over our DE recruiting, because the recruits who grade out high in our preferred skill set tend to not be highly rated by the recruiting services as a prototypical DE. Wiles knows what he wants, and it doesn't mesh well with how the services rank DE recruits.
So I don't worry about recruiting rankings at that position. It sucked that we missed on Sweat, but to me it was because he was someone Wiles thought could play DE in this system, not because he was a five star. I value Wiles' judgement more than 247, in other words.
(Credit where credit's due, it was French's analysis that made me realize all this.)
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not at all. i specifically left it out as it wasn't mentioned in AB's article either. it states that size (height and weight) are what is close to seeing him move. no mention of talent, which is likely due to the fact that he literally just got on campus and started practicing for the first time.
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There is a difference in a pro sized DE and a 5 star pro sized DE. The difference is the 5 star weighs 260 but plays at the speed of a 220 guy. There a plenty of 6'5" 250lb high school players that play DE but there is a big talent and God given ability difference there.
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For Nijman, its not a size problem its his foot speed, and getting off the ball. In his highlight video he was pretty slow in both of those. I think he'll be given a chance at end, maybe even through the fall, but if the cards aren't there then they aren't there for him.
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I don't know if it is even foot speed. I think his stance was awful. Whoever was teaching him needed to get his weight a little more underneath him so he didn't need to stop and gather coming off the ball.
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If he had wanted to play offense at all, there would be zero clamoring for him anywhere because SS would have already snatched him up so quick, Wiles would be recruiting SS to be a DE.
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The sheer size and length he has, has to be able to be put to use at some point. Maybe on passing drives with leads where you are playing six DBs and 3 DL. The potential for batted passes...
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On the subject if Wyatt Teller, I remember his high school coach even saying he would be a good, maybe great defensive lineman, an elite offensive lineman as well. He said tackle, I'm guessing his 46 inch pythons have something to do with the move inside.
I edited this after I read the quotes from his h.s. coach.
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If he doesn't redshirt this season, Coach Beamer should put him in the middle of the line on the field goal block team. If he has the strength advertised, he should be able to get a good push, and the fact that he's 6'7" will make it all the more difficult for kickers to lift the ball over him.
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Comments
I really have high hopes for this kid.....his being from my high school in NJ......karma?
His measurables are enough to be hopeful about. If he can keep his speed and has the agility and bend he will stick at DE. I am a little cautious to expect too much right away but his future looks bright.
Funny thing is, this is almost verbatim what we were saying about Dadi Nicholas when he was a freshman.
Was it? Dadi came in at 6-2 210. Nijman is a whole different beast
I'm guessing more from the perspective of being a talented but raw player, not in respect to size.
Yup. That's what I meant.
And Nick Acree.
I remember being so psyched when he signed. He just looked like a man among boys. Never could get over the injuries.
EDIT: At least he is helping the team now being a strength and conditioning coach in Gentry's squad. He definitely always was good at that.
Really? I seem to remember all the buzz about Nick Acree suddenly drying up as soon as he arrived on campus and started practicing.
Really? I don't.
I'm trying to remember. It really seems to me like it was redshirt year, complete silence from Wiles, move to OL, then career finished due to injury. After he was actually inside the program, the only buzz I remember about him was from message boards. I picked him to be a breakout player his redshirt freshman year, so the silence surrounding him was particularly noticeable to me.
Acree was an odd case because he was a really early commit and those photos of him being jacked came out really early. I believe you are right in that by the time he got on campus, we knew he couldn't play. Nijman is the opposite in that nobody had heard of him 4 months ago. That is a similarity with Nicolas/Estime.
But they are similar in that they are physical freaks. Jake Johnson was another physical freak that we thought was going to be a great player for us but it didn't translate.
I can only imagine if Nijman sticks at DE and he plays on the same line as Settle. That would have to be one of the biggest DLs we've ever fielded.
Sacks, sacks everywhere.
Our D-line is going to go all Ivy League on the QBs.
Not gonna lie, watching Nijman line up opposite Keihn is pretty comical. Charlie Wiles coaches a "speed to power" approach technique-wise, so I guess it's fitting that his stud and end combination inherently fit that.
"That would have to be one of the biggest DLs we've ever fielded."
Pavlov-like
My memory is the reaction on message boards was similar to that of most higher ranked recruits who redshirt. Rumors and assumptions mixed in with a heavy dose of irrational exuberance...
My recollection is that it wasn't until his r-So yr that expectations really began to taper. But I've been told my memory isn't what it used to be, soooo...
Oh, I do. He was immediately moved to OT (he looked like an LT from the get go with that wingspan) and never impressed.
The amount of time Nijman plays this year will be directly related to how much tecnique he learns. Despite his size, I don't think he is going to be bull-rushing people like he did in high school. I am not expecting too much this year from him but next year and the year after, watch out.
FIXED IT:
In all seriousness, wasnt his offseason weight larger than this? Sounds like he slimmed down, which is
goodgreat. I simply cannot wait for thisyoung fellowBAMF to develop fully.#ALL THE SACKS
Temper expectations until he harnesses those measurables into football twitch. http://www.thekeyplay.com/virginia-tech-football-recruiting/2015/02/8648...
Is there an or to that either?
fixed
Oh. Stupid autocorrect. I was intrigued to see what other potential you saw in Nijman.
I like big dominating ends at the point of attack. However, Bud's system (except when playing the bear because one DE is slid down in a three tech or a 30 front) requires his ends to penetrate and then get flat down the line. I didn't see that kind of change of direction or quickness from Nijman. Part of that is that he grew so much and is still getting comfortable in his body. If the light goes on and he can play fast, he may be great. But, if what I saw on film is what he will be for the remainder of his career, Bud would have to change the way his DE's play for Nijman to be effective.
question that this article makes me think of. Is a 5 star DE recruit really attracted to VT defense? we always say if we start getting these 5 stars in Bud's system then watch out but isn't Nijman pro-size DE? Would someone like Bosa at anOSU be an end here or be moved to DT or OL?
The way the article reads is that he is fighting to stay where he loves and is a hair away from being moved somewhere else.
I was going to make a post about this soon
I hear this but I am pretty sure if Bud had NFL quality players all over the field, he could make a few adjustments ;).
If Bud Foster got Joey Bosa, he would play Joey Bosa any damn where he wanted. Guys only get moved if they can't play the position in the system.
A 5 star DE would be attracted to VT if
- he wants to be productive
- is quick and comfortable squeezing back side pursuit
- is sound in playing contain play side against the run
Generally, bigger DE's struggle with that backside pursuit (JR Collins stood out in 2011 as a bigger DE playing flat down the line, but had to angle out in order to be effective. Offenses started to run at him and it negated his ability to play at a 45 degree angle off the snap.) However, when you get a special once in a lifetime player, he can do all those things listed above at a bigger weight. Fact of the matter is, the Hokies have not had that once in a lifetime talent. Of the bunch, Nathaniel Adibi was probably closest to the mold, although Cornell Brown played like he was 6'5 265. Worilds, Moore, and Tapp were outstanding SYSTEM guys, not elite talents that could be successful in any system.
Ultimately, the position change thing is what it is. If you pick VT and you want to play, the coaches will put you where you have your best chance to be successful. For some, it hasn't worked. However, I don't hear people complaining about Wyatt Teller and Bucky Hodges.
But doesn't this mean the answer to my question is: Yes, those recruits won't be interested to play at VT.
If Bosa, who by from what I have seen has never faced the notion of being moved from DE fits at DE and is a star at DE in other programs, but is a probable move to DT or OL in our system, then isn't there something wrong with our system? Shouldn't our system be able to work with this caliber or player no matter what? Isn't converting DE's into DT's the same idea of turning TE's into OL, albeit with more success?
The argument with Bucky and Teller seem not comparable to me. Bucky was buried in depth chart with a screwy throwing motion. His route to the field was somewhere else. That became evident and he had to change.
Teller though could be our best defensive player. Frankly, we don't know. In his recruitment he flat out stated he would only consider schools that would play him on defense, and here he is on offense. I'm not saying that's the wrong move, but that was a move made from depth issues. Not because Teller couldn't find the field on the defensive side or become a star there.
I'm not trying to start any argument here. I just have never seen a real answer to it. If I was a 5 star recruit like Bosa that played DE, loved it, and wanted to stay there I wouldn't go to a program that has a tendency to move my size to DT. It's like the trials of us building a program with 3* players where we relied on speed is inhibiting us from taking it the next level to get the 5* players that play at the positions they have been playing their whole career and want to stay there in college. Seems like that's how 5* recruits think to me, though being thousands of miles away I base that purely on empirical reasoning based on internet supplied fanhood.
I'm not sure how you got "those recruits won't be interested to play at VT" from his answer?
He (correctly, IMO) said that Joey Bosa would play anywhere he wanted in the VT system...and then you proceed to state that a Joey Bosa (who I happen to think is a tad overrated, but that's another discussion) would be a "probable move to DT or OL" in the VT system and base your entire premise on that (false, IMO) notion.
It just so happens that many big guys lack the speed & explosiveness and many fast/quick guys lack the power to play DE (or whatever position)...thus they move to another position.
The problem isn't that VT wouldn't play keep a 6'5" 265lb guy with speed and explosiveness at DE; the problem is that they don't exactly grow on trees and the handful that do exist in each class are valuable commodities that are being courted by everybody.
The other thing here is that I think folks assume the coaches say "you're moving" and that's that. There's probably some push and some pull. Many of these kids want to get on the field and/or have a dream of playing in the NFL. A good dose of reality can factor into the whole decision process to change positions as well. You get your ass handed to you enough times at a particular position and the switch to a less preferred, but better suited, position suddenly becomes more palatable.
What he said...
By Frenchs own account, Mihota is explosive enough to get a look at DE. But now instead of learning techniques that will help him at DE, all of his progress will be at DT. Even Bosa wasn't a beast when he came in freshman year. They let him develop. I mean Bosa was the 5th ranked SDE and Teller was the 9th that year. Not exactly a world of talent difference. The point is that VT is much less inclined to keep someone at DE than other programs, and that is a negative when it comes to recruiting. Its not like we have the NFL results to back it up
You're giving the rankings way more credit than they deserve. It's bad enough to put absolute faith in the star rankings, but even worse to put faith in the assigned positions and the positional rankings.
In reality, Teller was probably more like the 39th best DE prospect and the 9th best OL prospect. I'm willing to bet that privately the VT coaches knew this before he set foot on campus. If Teller was truly the 9th best DE prospect, there's absolutely no way he doesn't stay at DE if he wants to play DE.
You claim that VT is less inclined to keep guys at DE than other programs...is there any evidence to back this up? My observation is that most programs move guys around from their preferred/rating service assigned positions.
IMO, the bottom line is that while the Beamer-era VT has gotten some good DE recruits, it has never gotten an elite recruit at DE. Now one can argue is it the chicken or the egg why that is so, but given that reality, VT simply keeps the truest DE's that fit VT's scheme at DE and moves the truer DT's, OL's & Backers from DE to those positions.
Jason Worilds and Nathanial Adibi were probably the highest regarded DE recruits that Foster has landed.
If memory serves, both were solid blue chip recruits but not elite recruits, no?
appreciate the response. very well thought out. but here's how i got to that:
my question: do 5* recruits find vt unappealing because our system moves pro-size from positions they want to play? (adding that from what i have seen 5* recruits do not want to move and using Bosa as example of the size that gets moved)
answer given: he will play wherever Foster plays him.
conclusion: 5* recruits (whether entitled or not) expect to play where they are recruited at, and therefore knowing VT will not do that, will be more attracted to program's with systems that can play pro-size blue chip players at the positions they expect to.
I'm not saying that it's simply a me first attitude though, rather they know they are good enough to have a chance to be the top 2% and having worked 4+ years at a position are not willing to entertain a move.
you make two points that a) vt would play players at that size and speed at end, but it's not as if james gayle was a burner or anything. (unless i remember that incorrectly) he was just naturally instinctive and explosive. and we have moved fast players like marshall inside.
and second point b) that these players don't grow on trees, which is really my point. if they don't grow on trees why are we moving them inside all the time?
I am not trying to argue against players getting moved at all. what i am talking about is our inability to land these blue chip DL recruits, specifically at DE which is a highlight reel position in our system. why aren't they attracted to it? my premise is that we have a precedent of moving pro-size DE's inside and for 5* recruits they , rightly or wrongly, do not want to be moved.
I think what you and French say is extremely smart but it hasn't answered the question for me, rather just lends me to believe I may be right.
again, if I was Bosa and I am top DE coming from HS and I am considering my top 2 programs, OSU and VT. All other things being equal, I will look at my path to playing time at where I want to play. One system plays pro-size DE's and one system has precedent of moving larger DE's to DT or even OL. that doesn't mean that's what Foster would do, but if I am Bosa I am going where that "risk" is eliminated.
FWIW, I interpreted French's answer to mean, "If Foster landed Bosa, Foster would play Bosa anywhere Bosa wanted."
Which I turn I thought meant that we will attract 5* DE recruits who can play DE the way we require it to be played.
In turn, you are correct that we might not be top pick for a lot of blue chip DE recruits because we will still require them to earn the position once they arrive. If another school guarantees you'll stay at DE and we don't, a lot of recruits will go elsewhere.
Having said that, I prefer the way we do it. We're a system defense. We can't be successful having DEs that don't fit the bill in Foster's system, so IMO we're better off molding lower ranked recruits with the necessary twitch and skill set than we would be playing NFL caliber DEs who might not be good fits in the system.
And finally, regarding Teller, I remember his high school coach said he might be very good on defense, but he could be a Pro Bowl offensive lineman. He was only considering schools who would give him a shot on defense, and we did give him a shot. But I think he would up exactly where he needs to be.
Also with Teller, he volunteered to switch positions. Obviously all the coaches accepted the switch but I never saw it reported as being anything more than him asking to switch to help the team.
yeah, I have no issues with Teller being asked to switch or him switching. But it's not comparable to the question because him switching doesn't mean he couldn't have been a stud on defense, it just means we had depth issues and he switched to help the team and is a stud on offense.
my question is about appeal to 5* recruits.
I guess the pronoun is mixing that up for me because as it reads it says Foster will play him wherever Foster wants. And really i don't think that Bud would let Bosa or any kid dictate where they play to him. Do you?
I think every program that is recruiting 5* recruits still require them to earn the spot. Again that is not what I am saying.
What you are saying about the system we use is more apt to what I am talking about to which you are basically saying: we are better off playing non-5* recruits that fit our system than change our system to fit 5* recruits.
If that's the case then lets just all accept that and stop being upset when we lose out on 5* DE's in the future.
But that still lends to prove my hypothesis, no?
Yes, I agree with your assessment. But then again, I'm not someone who gets really bent out of shape when we miss on 5 star DEs. Wiles has proven he can manufacture stars from lower-rated recruits there. It would be NICE get them, don't get me wrong, but I don't think it's as big a threat to the program to miss there than at corner, for instance. In other words I think we would have been worse off had we missed on Mook instead of Sweat, and again it's because of our system.
And I hate pronouns.
yeah I agree.
I am not trying to stir the pot at all. Just highlighting something that may affect what a lot of people are so worried about. Obviously you less so.
anyway, it's all offseason topics. doesn't matter really. It's just how I read the article and got me thinking about it.
I remember a while back, two or three years leand I can't remember if it was here or Tech Sideline, I floated the idea that we didn't land top DEs because Wiles didn't know how to coach them. He is accustomed to teaching a very specific style of play, and if blue chip DEs come in with a different style of play he can't coach them.
I've refined my opinion a bit on Wiles since then. It isn't just him as a position coach, it's the entire defense that requires a very specific role from our DEs, and twitch is valued above almost all other measurables. Larger DEs almost never have the twitch to be what we need DEs to be.
I've never understood the handwringing over our DE recruiting, because the recruits who grade out high in our preferred skill set tend to not be highly rated by the recruiting services as a prototypical DE. Wiles knows what he wants, and it doesn't mesh well with how the services rank DE recruits.
So I don't worry about recruiting rankings at that position. It sucked that we missed on Sweat, but to me it was because he was someone Wiles thought could play DE in this system, not because he was a five star. I value Wiles' judgement more than 247, in other words.
(Credit where credit's due, it was French's analysis that made me realize all this.)
You're conflating talent with size. Just because Nijman has pro size at DE, it doesn't necessarily mean that he has pro ability at DE.
not at all. i specifically left it out as it wasn't mentioned in AB's article either. it states that size (height and weight) are what is close to seeing him move. no mention of talent, which is likely due to the fact that he literally just got on campus and started practicing for the first time.
There is a difference in a pro sized DE and a 5 star pro sized DE. The difference is the 5 star weighs 260 but plays at the speed of a 220 guy. There a plenty of 6'5" 250lb high school players that play DE but there is a big talent and God given ability difference there.
For Nijman, its not a size problem its his foot speed, and getting off the ball. In his highlight video he was pretty slow in both of those. I think he'll be given a chance at end, maybe even through the fall, but if the cards aren't there then they aren't there for him.
I don't know if it is even foot speed. I think his stance was awful. Whoever was teaching him needed to get his weight a little more underneath him so he didn't need to stop and gather coming off the ball.
Maybe it can be taught, but his lack of explosiveness looked like more than a technique issue to me. Maybe weight loss will help too.
As I've said before, I just hope that if it's not in the cards at DE, then the coaches and Nijman move on sooner rather than later.
I wonder if Nijman had instead said he wanted to play OT and was listed on the services as such, would there be any clamor for him at DE?
If he had wanted to play offense at all, there would be zero clamoring for him anywhere because SS would have already snatched him up so quick, Wiles would be recruiting SS to be a DE.
The sheer size and length he has, has to be able to be put to use at some point. Maybe on passing drives with leads where you are playing six DBs and 3 DL. The potential for batted passes...
On the subject if Wyatt Teller, I remember his high school coach even saying he would be a good, maybe great defensive lineman, an elite offensive lineman as well. He said tackle, I'm guessing his 46 inch pythons have something to do with the move inside.
I edited this after I read the quotes from his h.s. coach.
If he doesn't redshirt this season, Coach Beamer should put him in the middle of the line on the field goal block team. If he has the strength advertised, he should be able to get a good push, and the fact that he's 6'7" will make it all the more difficult for kickers to lift the ball over him.