No matter where the Hokies move DT/DE Vinny Mihota, he seems to keep finding left guard Wyatt Teller.
"Always on my side! Isn't that something?" Teller huffed with fake outrage after the team's spring game Saturday.
After spending the first year of his career on the inside, the Hokies' depth issues at DE have encouraged Bud Foster and Charley Wiles to start experimenting with Mihota on the outside, and he seems to be a quick study at his new spot.
"I'm absolutely comfortable with it," Mihota said. "They felt like I was quick enough to play end, and I was producing at d-tackle and they were a little slim at end, so when Luther (Maddy) and Corey (Marshall) come back it will kind of be a full position, so I moved to end so I can get on the field."
Not only did Mihota earn the team's Dr. Richard Bullock Award for showing the most improvement during spring practice, but he also put on a big show at the spring game with a half sack and two tackles.
"He can cut an edge very well," Teller said. "Today we were in pass pro and I guess Jon didn't set him correctly and he got pressure, he didn't get a sack, he got a pressure on Brewer, I think, but I was like 'dang, there's nothing I can help you with Jon (McLaughlin), I'm sorry, I guess you overset him and I guess I can try to help.' There were a few times where we were kind of stuck with him because he's so fast. You've got to overset him almost because you have help on the inside, you know? You don't have it outside. Jon's held his own against him, but he's a young player and in a few years he's going to be brutally good, really good."
While Mihota's quickness can clearly be an asset at end as he zips around offensive tackles, the staff notes that he's still better suited on the inside, even if he's shown a willingness to adapt on the fly so far.
"I enjoy watching him out there," said Frank Beamer. "He's athletic enough to use at defensive end, but we like him inside because he's quicker than most of the guys that are trying to block him."
Mihota agrees that predictions that he's ready to contribute at DE immediately are a bit premature. He calls his time at defensive end "a day-by-day thing, as needed," and asserts that he still needs more seasoning on the outside to really be effective.
"Right now, I'm more comfortable at d-tackle just because I've been there a year now," Mihota said. "I've only had two or three practices at end, I'm just still learning the plays and working on my technique, but I feel like I've progressed at end a lot so far, so once I get more time out there at end, I feel like I'll be more comfortable."
Teller says the offensive line hasn't noticed any tentativeness from Mihota during practice.
"He's a tough guy. He gets off the ball," Teller said. "Jon and I are always like 'he's offsides, he's got to be offsides, there's no way he's in our face before we can even get up.'"
It's that quickness that's even attracted the head Hokie's attention.
"At times his quickness really shows off," Beamer said.
But Teller says the 6'5", 270-pounder packs plenty of punch as well.
"Sometimes he'll just come off the ball and we'll hit each other and we'll be like 'woah. Ok. Wow.' That's a big collision right there," Teller said. "But he's a good kid."
Mihota credits fellow DTs Marshall and Maddy, who both know a thing or two about blending size and speed, for teaching him all he knows.
"It's really made me a better player," Mihota said. "Watching them every day is a really good learning tool, to just watch them, even when they're not going to be in there, because of what great players they are."
With that dominant pair out, Mihota says he and the rest of the young defensive lineman have benefitted tremendously from the extra playing time.
"I think it's good for the younger guys to really step up and fill the role, knowing you have them to fall back on when they get back so when we put them in, we can feel confident in our backups," Mihota said.
In fact, Mihota says he's observed a big jump in the second defensive group in general this spring, which bodes well for the year to come.
"I feel like we've closed the gap from the second string to the first string," Mihota said. "So there won't be that drop off anytime somebody has to sub in for the first string guys."
Even still, it seems that Mihota has made a particularly large leap this spring, and he fully plans on building on those strong results and showing the staff what he's capable of when fall camp opens in August.
"I feel like I've gotten their attention, and now I've got to show them how much more I can play and how much better I can do," Mihota said.
Comments
Great article; excited to see where this kid goes. Knowing that the likes of Bama we're also courting him, it's encouraging to see his potential start to bloom. It was interesting to read the quotes from Teller. Thx! Size + quickness + intelligence is a dangerous combination. Go Hokies!
Warning about to get on my soapbox:
Here is the thing VT has one of the best defensive staffs in the nation. This staff does the legwork and other schools follow their lead when it comes to offering kids. If Foster and co. offer a kid I trust they know what that kid can do, not if he gets "big" name offers.
Sorry it just bothers me that so many people place stock in who else offers these kids ESPECIALLY on the defensive side of the ball.
No need to apologize, I get what you're saying.
But at the same time... It feels pretty good to sometimes date the hot chick who turned down the coolkids to be with you.
Starting to feel like these guys in the trenches are making one another better. Maybe its always been that way, but for years it seemed like a thin DL and soft OL was holding us back. Getting the sense that a few of these guys on each side know they'll be playing on Sundays (if they continue to work), and thats going to make the whole group better. Nice article.
is Vinny the next JJ Watt?
I'd like to think is JJ Watts the next Vinny!!
Oh no...center!
Vinny is going to make a great backup OT in a couple years. /sarcastica(?)
*Tight end
I got shivers at the thought of a NFL size 3-4 DE with Dadi speed coming off the edge. I really hope he gets that playbook down and that experience he wants.
He doesn't have Dadi speed. He's quick, but not fast (the opposite of Nijman). That's why he's better suited to the inside.
Gayle didn't have Dadi speed.
he was very close if not as fast.
Turned in a 39 1/2-inch vertical jump to go with a 400-pound bench press and a 4.44 second clocking in the 40.
http://www.hokiesports.com/football/players/gayle_james.html
He ran a 4.7 at the combine
If James Gayle could run a true 4.44 forty and 39 1/2 vertical, he would have been a 1st round pick.
FWIW, he ran a 4.70 official at the NFL combine with 37" vertical.
My guess is that Dadi will be similar in the 40 -- maybe closer to 4.6.
I know that isn't his true time but it was his tech time just like the times reported for dadi. Would agree dadi will probably run in the 4.6 range if he keeps gaining weight. Gayle's time was also his sophomore year before he bulked up and lost quite a bit of speed.
Idk I've seen him make quite a few plays chasing down JC from the backside. Of course he doesn't have Dadi speed, but he has things Dadi doesn't
As do most Defensive tackles...what's your point?
The point is that I don't think his speed is a liability. He has 35 lbs on Dadi, obviously Dadi will be faster.
If his speed at DE (or lack thereof) wasn't a liability, the coaches would be moving him there permanently.
They're not and they likely won't. I'm glad he might provide some options, but if Travon Hill wasn't injured or Houshun Gaines was on campus right now, I doubt we'd be seeing any of this.
I disagree. I think the move is semi permanent. If anything he will drop 10-15 lbs to be a little faster. I only say semi permanent because they seem to have an initial reluctance to play anyone at DE who is more than 230 lbs so he will have to prove them wrong
That's the misconception. Their reluctance isn't to play people of a certain size at DE, it's a reluctance to play people with the size that aren't both quick and fast.
Kinda like having a reluctance to play 6'6" 245 guys at WR. It's not the size, it's the speed. Find a guy that size with the speed and hands and they'll play him there...
If the move is "semi-permanent", that basically means he's at neither position, not both.
It's the chicken and the egg because they give a guy a week or so and then decide whether he is too big or too slow. And half the time it feels like their mind was made up beforehand, or they are moving a guy from one position to another to make up for a lack of depth or recruiting misses at another position. I'm saying it's semi permanent because I think he will make a good defensive end of given enough opportunity, I'm just not convinced he will get that opportunity
So you're telling me there's a chance?
Its clear to see why the DLine doesn't mind too much when the OLine comes "recruiting" their players.
The DLine is DEEP, and the recruiting never had the drop-off of the OLine.
A few that have switched lately: Hansen, Teller, Smith, Nijman. It would be a crime to have these guys missing reps waiting for a shot on such a deep DLine!
"It would be a crime to have these guys missing reps waiting for a shot on such a deep DLine!" The forgotten truth and a very real statement.
Did Hansen, Teller & Nijman really "switch"? Collectively they spent about 10 practices on the DL. Maybe the fan base thinks they switched because they were listed as such on recruiting services, but I doubt the coaching staff ever really penciled any of these guys in on their board for the DL.
And even though Smith was a DL for a year or whatever, they were almost certainly looking past him very early on.
yes they switched. Not sure it was a fuss about Hansen but teller and nijman both were specifically given shots at DE and that is what they were recruited as.
They didn't "switch". They were simply allowed to satisfy their curiosity/desires and quickly find out for themselves they weren't DL's.
Do you honestly believe the coaches didn't know this (or very strongly suspected it) before the kids ever stepped foot on campus? Do you really think they sincerely thought these kids would be DLs and then suddenly after 2 or 3 practices said "ooops, we made a mistake...I sure hope they can transition to the OL or we're up shit's creek on these guys..."?
You wouldn't take a flier on moving a guy from DL to OL that quickly unless you had almost every intention of doing so from the get-go.
I think the coaches genuinely tell the kids they will give them a shot there and hopefully don't have a plan to move them to another spot before giving them that chance. Wyatt Teller switched, period. Bud wanted that beast on defense. You think Bud does cartwheels for every OL we get?
Teller's not the same story as Nijman. Teller volunteered to move to the OL.
There's no telling what would've happened if Teller didn't volunteer, but given his tenacity I'd bet he'd still be at DT.
None of them are the same story, agreed. I'd still consider it a switch though as he was brought in with intentions of being on the DL (DE or DT) and he's on the other side of the ball now. Would love to see him at DT but glad he's on the OL and bringing a tenacious mentality, as you said. Think it's making the other OL better around him seeing him putting people down.
My thoughts exactly. A high-school standout who has consistently mauled the competition at DE believes he's going to hold his own in D1. The coaches can tell by watching him work that he's not going to make it, but there's no sense trying to tell the kid that. It's easier to show him.
Play with real size for once... agghh.... so frustrating.
Always beat me to the punch with that sentiment.
6'5/270 DE?
I'm pretty sure I trust Bud to put his players in their best position.
2 words: Corey Marshall.
You can have size at DE all you want, but nothing will destroy a play quicker than a quick, disruptive DT getting into the backfield at the snap of the ball.
I understand the reason they give, but damn't I see disruptive players on other teams that have prototypical size for their positions and I just don't see why we can't have that either.
Go watch the Oregon/OSU game and see the difference in how often they call Bosa's number vs. their DTs (I think Bennett in particular had a pretty good game). As much as I'd love to have 6'5 270 DEs who could run and play Foster's scheme, there's no question that a quick, playmaking DT is going to present bigger issues for an offense simply because they can't just run away from him or chip him with a TE. So while I think Vinny's a solid-to-good DE, the coaches clearly believe he can be a good-to-great DT. Given the choice, wouldn't you want the guy lining up where he could have the biggest impact? He's gonna be a depth player this year either way, so why not play him primarily where he'll be able to have the greatest effect on the game (aka, the Corey Marshall role. Pretty sure that center from GT is still having nightmares about that one)?
Yes would rather have him where he's most disruptive if we have adequate depth at both spots, which we don't. I think we have other players that are very similar to him at the DT spot already. I'm still not sure that he can be an effective DE for us, but if he's able to it would be valuable for the next 2 years.
Well, Marshall is graduating after this year. If Mihota keeps progressing like he has, he could very well take over that role full-time. If not, he'll provide excellent depth (the term "quality depth" comes to mind quite strongly) at both spots.
True. I was thinking woody fit the same mold though as far as an undersized DT but woody may still be more power than speed. Harry lewis and darrius fullwood are two more incoming freshmen that may play similar roles.
Fullwood seems to me to be the most likely to fill that quick DT role, if he does slide inside. The other 2 are power all the way, but they're not exactly slow movers themselves. I'm really interested to see if Fullwood has the quicks to play end, cause he's definitely got the size (6'4" 240 per 247) to be a major force on the outside.
Ok, so rabbit hole time, I apologize in advance if it sets off squirrel city
I fully agree that Mihota could be a great DT .... for us. He would not be in the NFL if he is lucky enough to get there. And there in lies my beef with our system.
It is genius, that is beyond doubt. But if we take off the O&M glasses there are prices we pay for that system. One is that we can't play prototypical size in positions. We traditionally play DE size at DT, LB size at DE and safety size at LB. The great part is that it works and we win, but you can't simply disregard the disadvantages of that system either. We play speed first and our system plays undersized players in positions they don't arrive in.
Our program and system was born from undervalued/overlooked kids that VT expertly found and coached and created a system that played to their strengths. Speed.
But at a certain point I would like to see our system succeed with prototypical size at positions. DT at DT, DE at DE and LB at LB.
How many times has it been said that: If Bud can get a few 5* recruits then watch out, etc? Yet we consistently miss them in recruiting. Many of which have thought to have been high on VT. No one seems to have a reason why that is but I think our system that moves players to positions they will excel within our system, but not what they would ultimately play on Sundays, is at least a contributing factor of that.
I am going to use an offensive example to illustrate. For a LONG period of time we recruited athletes or converted QBs and others into WRs. We coached them into that position. Yet, when AMO arrived the singluar thing he mentioned upon arrival was getting players that were true position players. having played that position and been coached at it for years. (Same for OL with Grimes/Searles). And what do you know, we got some stellar recruits at WR that were true position players and they not only excelled, they won the starting spots as true freshman and are already on track to break records. There's a reason for that.
Now back to defense. If you are going to school to play football at D1 your dream most likely is to play on Sundays. So if in the NFL your size would be played at DE, yet at VT you play at DT, does that mean you are now "behind" at pro level having just spent 4+ years out of position? In the case of our WRs and OL that seems to have mattered a great deal from HS to College. I am sure, since only 2% of players jump to pro it matters in that transition as well.
So if you are a blue chip recruit having played for 4+ years at DE and you are considering where to attend school wouldn't it be a big red flag in your decision making to be at a program that has a history of playing size out of position for the sake of the system?
The arguments against:
Every program moves players. I don't disagree, yet I believe it is more singular for most programs being player by player cases, rather than systemic. Or in the case of Bama, where Saban has had a history of playing large corners, but this seems to be a trend in the pros as well. larger more physical secondaries, so it seems to translate better.
If we had a 5* (like clowney) you better believe he would be DE. Actually, I don't. All evidence shows that we value his speed and power at his size as a disruptive DT, not a DE. Now I am not saying Clowney wouldn't be a DE at VT but if I were Clowney as a recruit evaluating my future path at VT I would look at their previous DE's of my size. And unfortunately I see them moving to DT. That doesn't mean I would be moved, but why take the risk?
So while I FULLY understand why we want Mihota at DT for VT in terms of our system, I rather believe we NEED Mihota to stay at DE and excel in terms of our program. Ideally to go pro at that position. If for no other reason than to send a beacon call through recruits that if you have size and ability you will play at your position at VT and go pro.
You bet everything you own that Clowney would be a DE. The reason guys get moved inside isn't because of their size, it's because they lack the speed to play DE and make plays scraping down the line from the back side (JR Collins in particular struggled immensely when he got too big in 2012).
You seem to think we'd put a 5 star guy inside simply because of his size. The thing is, he's a 5 star because he's got the size AND the speed to be successful in darn near any system (thinking of guys like Sweat, Bosa and Clowney here).
As it is, I'll take Foster's system and wins over Miami or UVA's draft picks and mediocrity.
Please don't take offense, but I think you've missed my point
No, actually I said: "Now I am not saying Clowney wouldn't be a DE at VT...".
And I didn't say that size is the only reason. I know speed, twitch, first step, edge technique, etc all factor into it. Any player could not fit any of those things and necessitate a move. That would be a player by player case. What we have is systemic, where players with prototypical size get moved to fit a system. You seem to think that Mihota doesn't have the speed to play DE, and I know you are a coach knows best kind of guy. (believe it or not, I am too) But when the DL coach flip flops his comments on a kids ability at DE from one year to the other it really bothers me and I suspect that he is just telling people what he wants them to think, not what actually is. So I take WIles assessment both for and against Mihota at DE with an entire mine of salt.
Your final comment I think is the key point in our differing viewpoints.
I love the Hokie in you that says this, but to be honest you as a fan taking Foster's system come a very distant second to ANY 5* recruit taking Foster's system over Miami and UVA. A fact that unfortunately isn't happening. And there is the core of my point that you are missing. Ultimately it's not how I view Foster's system or how you do, it's how guys like Sweat, Bosa and Clowney do. As of yet, we aren't closing on this level of recruit and my belief is that our system, as genius as it is, leaves a perception that it will move you if you have prototypical size, regardless of speed or other variables.
I see what you're saying, and I definitely did miss your point. Not offended. Party on.
Now, my point in that last bit is the simple fact that what Foster does works. We see other programs grab big-time talent all the time and do nothing with it (Miami), or talent that was outstanding but wasted on an otherwise laughable program (UVA). I'm really hoping Settle - or even Maddy - is the kind of guy to change the perception that Foster's DLinemen can't make it in the NFL, because there's no doubt I'd love to have all the 5-star guys as much as the next guy. Still, even if he doesn't and even if Foster continues to reel in guys like Gayle or Collins or Dooley with the occasional Worilds or Ekanem, I'll take it. I'll take Foster and his non-NFL-producing, QB-killing DL every single time. Unless you're an Alabama or FSU and can essentially take what you want, why not have a defense that dominates without "elite NFL talent" and see what happens if/when one or two of those elite guys shows up? Why hello, Tim.
I thought hand and sweat were going to be the guys to break the trend of 5 stars going elsewhere and help us combat the negative recruiting we receive for the DE position. Wishful thinking.
We just need one guy to stay at home and show that those types of athletes can have just as big, if not bigger, impact in our scheme and make it to the league.
I think there is an overestimation of the number of available 5 star linemen. They don't grow on trees.
This is the explanation of ratings and stars from 247 (not the composite, just 247s rankings) that is helpful in understanding what they mean and might further the point you're making:
http://247sports.com/Article/247Rating-Explanation-81574
yeah, we are in full agreement here. Really it's a Foster-22 where we need an elite talent to come in and kill it to pave the way, but until we get that and others following we play the way we play because it works.
I totally get that, yet part of me believes if we were able to translate one of these 3/4* players that have the size at those positions and get them to excel then maybe the time it takes between now and when that first truly elite player arrives on campus would be shorter.
Now Settle is an intersting prospect that could blaze a trail, so I really hope Wiles can get it done. His back and forth comments on Mihota and others just rubs me the wrong way though. And to be honest, though far removed, he always seemed unnecessarily harsh on Kirs Harley to the point where I felt sorry for the guy.
kris Harley was a complete shock to me that he wasn't a superstar here. I think his problem was staying focused off the field more so than on the field though.
we have a chance to put some DL into the NFL in the next few years with dadi (probably OLB), I think marshall can play DE in the league and may get a shot and then maddy at DT. I hope ekanem also will be a NFL prospect and hoping he can stay at DE although he'll probably translate to an OLB as well. Settle like you said could be one of the first in a long time to come in and live up to his rating and translate to the NFL.
Unfortunately the part of the recruiting world that VT lives in is that high 3*/low 4* area where kids often have some of the measureables but not all -- speed and athleticism, but not the size; size, but not the speed and athleticism. Tweeners. And when VT can't have both (which is much of the time), I think the coaches tend to philosophically err on the side of speed and athleticism over size (or a little of both). (NOTE: While Jeff Grimes also fell in this camp, Stacy Searels does not appear to share this philosophy...it certainly looks like he is more inclined to err on the side of size over athleticism.)
So fans see a tweener like Mihota and think DE because they mostly look at his size for that position and ignore the (relative) lack of athleticism. VT defensive coaches look at Mihota and think DT because they look mostly at athleticism for that position and pay less attention to the (relative) lack of size.
So is it the chicken (the system) or the egg (the players)? While it has been a successful philosophy given that VT is not a top 15 recruiting school, it also leads to the (incorrect, IMO) perception that VT won't play a big kid at DE. It's not that VT won't play a big kid at DE, it's just that the big kids that VT gets aren't really DE's in any defense worth it's salt (3-4, 4-3 or otherwise).
It will be interesting how Settle works out for VT. He could go a long way to dispelling the myth that the VT system can't accommodate prototypical sized DL's.
And, if you are one of these types and have 40 offers and VT is perceived to be one of your top schools, 39 schools are pointing this out often.
It's not about the "size", its about technique and skill set. You better believe that, for example, Jadeveon Clowney who is 6'6" and 270ish lbs would've played defensive end for the Hokies, as would Nkimdeche for Mississippi who is even bigger, and other "bigger" D-Ends....
Nkimdeche isn't a DE. He was "moved" from DE to DT and he is a relatively small one at that (6'4" 280lb). I don't know the reason(s), but I gonna guess it was probably for similar reasons that guys get moved from DE to DT at VT.
So for the SEC-envy crowd, yes, a prototypical sized DE in the SEC -- and the #1 recruit in the country -- can also get moved to DT...
Hype.
His size combined with his ability to do what you quoted above gives me wowsers in my trousers.
He was the first thing that came to mind when I read your post. I'm really looking forward to seeing what Settle can do.
I always jump at the chance to mention that he seemingly had a decent bull rush in high school.
bwaaaaaaahahaha!
I'm thinking by the time he is 19 or 20, we may hear Lee Corso saying,
"That's not a BULL rush, that's a BULL ELEPHANT rush!"
This is a huge tease, but Mihota's game film from the spring game has me perplexed. He looked much better on the edge in space. When he had to take on blocks, even with his extra size, he didn't win as often as you would like him to. McLaughlin buried him on a couple of zone plays, and Malleck whipped him on the McMillan TD. It is worth noting that Mihota very likely also blew an assignment on the McMillan TD where he should have crashed inside (it was a spill call with Frye on the edge) and Mihota took on Malleck like it was a force call. That left a huge hole for McMillan to saunter through. I feature the play in my review on CJ Reavis because Reavis got his ankles broken by McMillan on the play.
French on the Bench: the most fun a man can have on the internet without going incognito first.
*goes incognito*
*Clicks Bitter blog link to avoid paywall*
That's the stuff.
Man I love this website.
Always an upvote for French!
Increasing VT fans' knowledge of Foster's system and dispelling myths with film review.
Espn linked this article. I'm sure that happens but I've never seen it before. Nice work
ha. I've pretty much stopped checking the ESPN ACC blog because I figured anything they have worth reading will get linked to from here. Guess they're figuring out the same thing...
The takeover has begun.
Looking at this picture I wonder how many jc colemans Bud, Frank and Brewer are standing on so they do not look so short compared to Wyatt?
Depth on D-Line...another reason to play more bear?
Imagining a Mihota - Teller collision:
The force of a Teller-Mihota collision can only be measured in units of Sam Rogers.
Vinnie will become a very fine DT for us. I agree with Bud(he should know). His quickness at DT will be more beneficial for us than at DE. His speed will be less noticed in his functionality at DT than at DE. I think he can play at DE but I'm not convinced in the long run that it will be necessary.
Since we already have a Dadi, does that make him Cousin Vinny?