ESPN has an article about the decline in attendance at college football games last year. Attendance fell 2.3% or about 1,000 fans per game to the lowest average attendance rate since 2003. Several teams, like A&M with a shiny new section in Kyle Field, saw in increase in numbers. The Boo Hoo Hoos saw a dip of 6,959 fans from the 2014 numbers.
According to HokieSports (and my iPhone calculator), we had 428,099 fans attend seven games at Lane Stadium last year for an average attendance of 61,157. The 2013 season saw 383,993 fans at six home games for an average of 63,999. This was a decrease of 2,842 fans or 4ish percent.
Forums:
DISCLAIMER: Forum topics may not have been written or edited by The Key Play staff.
Comments
It's definitely being seen everywhere. It's possible both college and pro football have plateaued in the popularity both have enjoyed for the last 15-20 years. I could be wrong, but it seems like students in particular nationwide are more apathetic towards sports as well. Maybe someone younger than me could speak to that, but it seems to me like it could be a generational shift type thing.
I wonder if their growing up with on-demand technology has anything to do with it. They aren't interested in sitting around watching a game live.
It really has more to do with money than anything. Tickets to sporting events as a whole are down, not just football. They are charging huge sums of money for tickets and it has reached a point in the past few years that fans aren't biting as much anymore. I think in a few more seasons ticket prices will either stop going up drastically or creep down a bit and they'll start selling out again.
Yes, some people aren't going because they can watch the games from home or on their computers, but in reality the price to attend is too high compared to watching it elsewhere unless the team or school as that "it" factor at the time. The other thing that I think has hurt is venues selling their tickets to second hand agencies that put a markup on tickets that increase the price even higher and turn off more people.
Single-game tickets for ACC opponents are $60. Sure, it sounds expensive, but this is 2015. Inflation happens. Tickets today aren't really that much more expensive than 15 years ago when it comes to real dollars.
a $60 ticket today is equivalent to a $33 ticket in 1990 for example, or $44 in 2000, or $56 in 2010.
The cost of the ticket alone only accounts for those that live closeby. What about the price of hotels, gas, food, parking (pro stadiums) etc. for people who travel to the games? That starts adding up for people who generally have less disposable income than a few years ago.
the same thing applies with regard to hotel prices, food prices.
You hit on the key difference in your last sentence. The buying power of the middle class as shrunk dramatically over the past 20 years.
I think student attendance is more closely related to the quality of the team. The issue as a whole (This isn't just a student issue) isn't generational, it's more less technology related. I remember a TKP post saying something to the effect of (paraphrasing):
If you don't need to be at the game to watch it, it doesn't make as much sense to spend that a lot of money on the game.
Additionally,
This is the opposite of my opinion:
I find that football is being slowed down so much, especially in the pros, that it's almost a chore to watch the sport on TV anymore, kinda the same way baseball is in my particular experience. Going to the games allows for much more entertainment between possessions, for me.
I think this is where your opinion varies most from others'. Typically, I'll flip back and forth and catch some other games during time outs, breaks, etc. Can't do that when you're at the game. That being said, inconveniences ignored (travel, etc), I'd much rather be at a game than watching it on TV, for the atmosphere alone.
Also, according to Joe Klatt on the Solid Verbal, the college game is actually being slowed down more than the professional game (that podcast is a great listen btw).
Slightly off topic, but in regards to NFL - Fantasy football is also hurting attendance. Personally, as an NFL 'viewer' who isn't a real fan of any team (self proclaimed fair-weather Ravens fan) I care more about my fantasy team than any particular game. I'm not paying for a game ticket if I'm not emotionally invested in the team's success.
Personally the way the game is being slowed is definitely taking away some appeal overall, TV or in person. I'm not saying I don't watch my favorite teams, but I don't find myself watching games featuring teams I have no allegiances to anymore. I used to do that but now you're talking about a 3.5-4 hour commitment, and unless it's my teams I just can't do it.
Agreed, it's gotten to the point that unless there are multiple games on that I really care about, I'll record the one(s) I want to see and start watching 90 minutes in. And it's not just football either. I don't think I watched a single caps game live this year, at least not until I ran out of buffer in the 3rd period, and the same goes for bullets games. Basketball in particular is terrible -- I can't stand not being able to speed through the last few minutes, which seem to take as long as the entire first half with all the timeouts & fouls.
But, when the quality of the product on the field is lacking and prices are rising, it's easy to justify staying home and devoting ~2hrs to the game vs. an entire weekend plus $$$ for gas, food, tickets, etc -- and I'm one of the lucky ones with family nearby so we don't have to pay for a hotel.
Really? I'd rather not watch a sporting event than watch it recorded. I'll check my phone every 5 minutes while I'm doing something else rather than watch the game recorded.
Between increased cost to get to games:tickets, food, gas, lodging and the fact that staying at home experience has increased in terms of enjoyment it's only natural.
Just curious, have these costs increased (beyond the rate of standard inflation) over the past 10-15 years? Obviously Gas has increased, but that's probably the smallest expense of those listed.
That doesn't seem possible
It was a bad year for Chardonnay.
Negative fan attendance
Calculating attendance at LOLUVA games requires the use if imaginary numbers.
Leg! We were all thinking it...
I wonder how this correlates to the explosion of wineries in the Charlottesville area?
Anyone else noticing the decline of attendance coinciding with the rise of HD?
I admit........ I have only attended one VT game since 2009. I love being home and watching games on multiple TV's. Sometimes I watch from the hot tub.
For me its the opposite. Nothing compares to being there. The ride, the tailgate, the game, the 4th quarter hangover, I cherish it all. Just being part of Hokie Nation and forgetting all my responsibilities for one day and getting drunk and yelling is something I look forward to all year. It's the difference between watching a concert on tv and being there, right up front, covered in sweat getting your eardrums obliterated.
Sigh, is it football season yet?
You sir, you just get it. Legs please.
Sometimes in the Fall, I just hate living overseas. Sigh.
I used to feel the same way. Now, not so much.
I couldn't feel one of my fingers for nearly a week after the UVA game in November but I wouldn't take back going to that game for nothing. I'm with you, for me nothing compares to actually going to the games.
4th quarter hangover is the absolute worst. When you're all out of bourbon airplane bottles, and forced to drink $5 bottled tap water. WORST.
I think this has something to do with it. Companies even market to the "homegating" crowd who watch games from their homes. A lot of people would prefer to stay at home, eat their own food, and use their own bathrooms than deal with the perceived hassle of going to a game (and this is true of all sports).
I read 'HD' mistakenly as 'Heather Dinich'....although it still made sense to me.
The economy has not helped the situation either. The Blacksburg area is still recovering slowly. A lot of the alumni had to restrict or reduce budgets during the slow economy and sorry to say for a lot that included their football tickets.
This same story has been coming out just about every year. I am not surprised at all that attendance is decreasing
Football fans that attend a football game are the minority.
You have to sell and play to your minority. But who is that?
106,000 people watched the game in person as VT beat OSU. 4.3 Million watched it on TV. Before that 51,000 people watched USC/Stanford in Stanford while 6.5 million watched on tv
I personally haven't bought season tickets in 2 years, now 3 for one main reason. Poor product offered for sale. Not the Team.
The opponent and the time of kickoff.
Continue scheduling One easy game, one ECU game and One Top tier game plus the ACC and have kickoff around lunchtime is no way to sell out more than one game a year
The 6 - 6 TN Vols had tickets sales for 2014 4.2% higher than 2013. 3 home games played in primetime Saturday night.
Nebraska fired the coach but ticket sales rose from 2013 to 2014
Ticket sales maybe down but primetime good matchups still sell lots of tickets
Ugh the scheduling is a killer. With an OoC slate of Southern Canadian Technical Writing School, Bottom Feeder FBS, ECU, and one offs farmed out to FedEx.... At least we have some good Home and Homes coming up but still play ECU for the next 30 years.
Agreed 100%. This is one of the many reasons I support scheduling tough.
I am however curious - How many of those UT games were scheduled preseason to be prime time?
To be fair, our scheduling throughout the sellout streak was similar to our current philosophy. The product being put on the field over the last 3 years has played a huge role in attendance decreasing. Also, not sure what you're referring to with Nebraska, but I believe Bo Pelini was there for the last seven years or so.
He was fired this off season. Big story - players were very disappointed and voiced their opinions on twitter. Season tix went on sale after he was fired.EDIT: thought poster was talking about 2015 ticket sales, not 2014 sales.
The players loved Pelini. Husker fans, however, not so much.
Yes I'm aware, but him being fired after the 2014 season has nothing to do with how tickets sales jumped from 2013 to 2014.
Sorry - I though OP meant 2015 ticket sales. My bad.
No problem. It could have been a typo in the original post, but I was just wondering what he was getting at with the Nebraska point.
Customers (ticket holders/buyers) have to like the product and that (should) effect upper managements decisions on the operations. Nebraska was still selling the same number of tickets year over year. The paying customers were still buying the product and there was a coaching change
There have been zero games played since the coaching change, so no conclusions regarding attendance can be made based on the firing of Bo Pelini.
That's even further to the point.
Until Whit came to town VT was so stuck in the early 2000s. Football evolved. But Vt Didn't. First the wins kept it going, Then the Boosters. But finally it all ran out and now some changes are being made.
The FanZone should have been rolled out more than 5 years ago (and still needs to be expanded to in the stadium.) The ECU agreement should have been 5 games in 10 years with a option to skip one year. Furman, W&M, Purdue, Western Carolina, Western Michigan, or Liberty don't need to be scheduled as long as we play in the ACC or a tleast until 2021 when at least FSU is back on the schedule. Utilize the scoreboard Screen for more football coverage. I would love to see Espn with a 2 min catch up throughout the game, that would be cool
Halftime/Band Time in between plays
Redo the band to play more variety and play more to the fans.
Get the fans involved. Coaches...one of you needs to be a pep rally-er, For some reason I rarely see the players get the fans going. and don't see anything from the sidelines. Every game I standup on the South endzone as Everyone else sits. There's no excitement.
Somewhere i have a picture with our defense in the south endzone on 4th and goal of a near tie game and no one else standing in the South Endzone
IT'S A REAL FCKING BUZZ KILL TO BE THERE
I'm a bit confused with what you're trying to say, so I'll go point by point.
1) What's even further from the point?
2) How would you suggest scheduling?
3) Of course the overall fan experience needs to be continuously enhanced. Everyone knows that and agrees with that. But to insinuate that attendance is dropping because coaches and players aren't getting fans involved from the sidelines is ridiculous.
4) Obviously our experiences may have differed, but the atmosphere at Lane has never been a buzz kill for me.
This exactly
Yup that's it
This year's schedule or next years schedule would be great to add on a Mid SEC East/B1G team and a game against American contender/ODU
2015 -OSU/South Carolina/South Florida
2016- UTenn/Penn State/ODU (for all the love of recruiting 757 yet no games?)
I can pregame with my family at the park in blacksburg before the game or in my backyard. I can watch the game SITTING in my seats or I can watch many games on ESPN however I want. I can run to the bathroom and back in Lane or in my house
If there is no Experience, No terror. NO ATMOSPHERE that's been built in to the game, Then why do I want to go.
The only thing Lane has over my house is the Atmosphere. Its not there.
Next game look around. the North endzone does have it. But so much of the rest of the stadium is missing it
You don't have to come to Lane if you don't feel the atmosphere is worth your time or money. That's your prerogative. Athletic Departments across the country are focusing on this problem as modern technology makes it easier and perhaps more enjoyable for fans to watch from home.
The opponent and the time of kickoff.
Continue scheduling One easy game, one ECU game and One Top tier game plus the ACC and have kickoff around lunchtime is no way to sell out more than one game a year
But don't veil your feelings on the subject by saying the opponent and kickoff times are why attendance at Lane is declining, because clearly the opponents and kickoff times sufficed well enough over the past two decades to sell out Lane 93 straight times. We've scheduled the same way for years. When the Hokies are playing winning football, fans have and will continue to fill up Lane Stadium.
Attendance at Lane has dropped largely because of the on-field product and will return to its previous glory when Virginia Tech puts an appealing product on the field.
For example, my first game as a student was the Monday night game against Georgia Tech in 2012. We were fresh off of an 11-3 season that ended with a trip to the Sugar Bowl that we remember all too well. Lane was (legitimately) sold out and the atmosphere was insane.
Fast-forward to the UVA game this past season, a Friday night game on ESPN. With the Hokies nearing the end of their third straight mediocre season, attendance for our biggest rival was reported at 60,431. However, I will add that Lane was still insane.
I might get crucified on here for this, but I'll say it anyway.
The band's halftime show, in my opinion, is one of the most boring gameday traditions in college football, across the board. I don't have a problem with the bands themselves, but I just think that time can be better spent doing a variety of other promotional things, and bringing children out and onto the field for promotional events and the such. That time could be better served making the a more fan-driven gameday experience where those in the stands are made to feel like a part of the event at large. As I said, I don't fault the band at all, I just think that there could be a better use of that time.
I completely agree with you, but as we both probably know, that tradition isn't going anywhere. I will say that the Ohio State band lived up to their sterling reputation last year in Columbus.
I completely agree..our halftime performance is miserable and boring.
What do you think of the MV pregame show? The one for big/night games with the state of Virginia, giant VT, H-O-K-I-E-S spell out. Personally, I always had more fun doing that than any of our halftime shows. I'm wondering if you don't like the band's shows in general, or just the random halftime ones.
I like the pregame show...it's just the half-time shows that kill me
As an ex-band member, I'm kinda with you. You'll find that a lot of the MVs don't even care for the halftime shows. heh. Some do though.
Pregame is so much more fun to do and much more interactive with the crowd. Plus you get to be on the field for Sandman as a band member, and that can't really be beat.
When you say "the band's halftime show," do you mean the MVs or college bands in general? Is the problem that the band is playing at all during halftime or that the performance the band/MVs puts on does not excite you?
In general... I wasn't trying to single anyone out.
I mean, I've been to numerous stadiums and seen numerous bands do their halftime shows. In general, they don't really do anything for me. Don't get me wrong, I like the MVs and HTs the most, but the bar was pretty low in my mind to begin with.
Fair enough. Personally, I generally felt like our halftime shows while I was there left something to be desired. Outside of the pregame performance, there was about 1 show a year that I thought the crowd might actually enjoy. You'll never see the MVs putting on shows like you see at OSU where many musicians may be receiving scholarships and they have an immense amount of money that goes into paying someone to write the drill (our directors mainly do that on top of their many other responsibilities) and also into either having someone arrange songs or paying for the arrangements as well as the rights to perform the songs. But I do wish that the music itself was more exciting. It doesn't have to be modern. A Michael Jackson show or Star Wars would excite the fans probably as much as doing a collection of pop hits. People are less thrilled about West Side Story though. That to me is the reason I donate my money to the MVs rather than to Hokie Club or my individual college. I know that I can give some money that may help them get one new song that people will enjoy and that matters to me.
I'm cringing imagining an MV dance routine for Michael Jackson
It can't be worse than doing the hand jive or singing "Time Of My Life" to the crowd. Now that Weaver is gone and our administration seems to be somewhat warming back up to Stick It In, perhaps some of MJ's iconic moves wouldn't be deemed inappropriate...
As long as the band does the show with only one glove
Also, I really hope I can change my signature soon
The MV's and HT's are decent. The OSU band really is a spectacle. I remember Ohio University doing a good job with their halftime show.
I'd like the bands more if I could actually hear them. I realize that this has more to do with the acoustics of Lane than anything the band does, but still....
I agree that scheduling probably played a big role in the drop in attendance for us. All of our big one-off games were sent to neutral sites, and a home schedule of mostly ECU, random FCS squad, and a mediocre mid major squad just really started to get stale.
Frankly, our regular season ACC schedule also became watered down. The coastal has been a very mediocre to poor division as of late, and when your schedule lacks regular meetings with the FSUs, Clemsons, and Louisvilles, it really hurts. I've frankly never been terribly excited about the UNC, Duke, Wake, BC, or Pitt games. I know those are all important conference games that we have even struggled to win recently, but that just doesn't move the needle for a lot of people. Conference expansion for the ACC, IMO, did little to help from a football standpoint other than further water down the schedule and make cross-divisional games more infrequent.
Couple all this with a lazy attitude from the previous administration with respect to the game experience and the poor offensive product we allowed to continually be put out on the field, it's no surprise attendance dipped. The economy also did no favors during this time. Thankfully, we seem to be on a better track going forward.
It's taboo to discuss at times but the ACC schedule we play year-to-year is uninspiring, to say the least.
A day of reckoning with college athletics is coming, and it'll be ugly for some schools. For too long these institutions have relied on a fundraising policy of trying to squeeze as much as humanly possible out of the donor base while providing minimal ROI. In the past, this kind of worked, because there was a good chance that if you didn't attend the game, it was very hit and miss on whether you would actually be able to watch, but now, with all games being viewable either online or on the air, that incentive dried up. And with the economic downturn not too long ago impacting the people who most likely would be giving big amounts now (those close to retirement) its just a bad scenario all around.
And lets be honest, VT fell into that trap in recent years. To say our Hokie Club fundraising efforts have been poor in recent years would be putting it lightly. Ever since the 1995 Sugar Bowl win, our Hokie Club fundraising has been exclusively to be able to purchase football tickets. That was the main push, and all incentive packages always came back to the big selling point being the football tickets. That isn't going to work anymore, for a variety of reasons. Thankfully, we have guys in charge who realize this and are in the process of figuring out new ways to both fill Lane as well as maximizing Hokie Club donations throughout the year. The two should work hand in hand going forward, but shouldn't necessarily be tied together.
In general, all sports are going to have to present consumers with increased perceived value of the live experience. The at home watching experience has just become too good for the only selling point for attending the game being, you know, the game. You actually have a worse view of things inside the stadium (save, of course, the ability to see everything at once, in context, which usually only matters to football purists). Concessions are way more expensive than stocking up at the grocery store. Traffic's a bitch and hotels price gouge on game weekends. (Seriously, assholes, charging $250 a room is once thing, but requiring a two night stay? Fuck off.)
If course, on-field product matters. A resurgence of the program will put asses in seats. But it won't keep them there, as evidenced by the growing appathy toward the end of the 10-win streak. Program success is necessary, but it isn't sufficient.
I'm sure Whit is smart enough to get it figured out. Personally, I think he needs to look at what minor league baseball is doing. I live within driving distance of the Peoria Chiefs, a class A affiliate of the Cardinals, and their game day experience is incredible. Minor league baseball has made huge strides since the days of gimmicky theme nights being the only draw. They have a proven model of enhancing the perceived value of a ticket.
Completely agreed, on field product matters, but its not just about wins and losses. The team just needs to be fun to watch, and people will show. Half the reason that attendance and demand started to wither away at the end of the 10 win streak is because the team itself got progressively less and less fun to watch. Yes, winning is great, but there were more than enough times when the team was barely able to win against teams they should have been able to easily put away that it really did turn off the average fan. Our offense legitimately imploded, causing us to rely exclusively on the defense to win. Yes, defense wins championships, but offense sells tickets.
More than anything, once our offense gets its shit together, our attendance will rebound and we'll be back to selling out games every week, win or lose. Having an offense that has an ability to score a lot of points in any game just makes the games more fun to watch, regardless of outcome. Hell, some of those offense shootouts (the Cal bowl game, the multiple OT slugfest with Cuse in 2002, the way that Boise game ended) even in a losing effort, those were some of the most fun games I've watched us play.
As for your minor league comparison, I'm not really sure how that compares. You're seeing quality baseball for pennies on the dollar. I mean, even with the Durham Bulls around here, who are a Triple-A team that has had a bunch of success in recent years, the most expensive ticket you can find is $10 for a front row seat behind home plate. The minimal expense of attending is one of the bigger selling points to going to those games, in my opinion.
Yeah but even at dirt cheap prices, minor league programs have trouble drawing crowds, so the front office of the Peoria Chiefs invested in establishing a festival atmosphere for games. There's activities and rides for kids, a zip line, family events, just in general making it something you want to make a day of.
Although the situations are different, both college football and minor league baseball have something in common: incentive to not go to a live game. (I can watch it on TV vs I don't give a shit about minor league baseball.) You can look at successful minor league franchises to see how they are creating an atmosphere around the game that draws attendance without making a farce of the game. It would be like if we did the Hokie Village for all home games. I think those are some ideas that Whit needs to be looking at.
Also, you're dead to rights on the offense. Even when we were owning the ACC, we weren't fun to watch. Tyrod put some lipstick on the pig for a while, but eventually the wheels fell off.
To me, its simple, the perceived value of the game (really, the entire weekend, not just the game) has to outweigh the costs of travel, not so much the money, but the time. If I spend 6 hours each way traveling for the game, that's about 20% of my weekend spent in my car.
I personally do not share this opinion, but I have friends who believe that going to a game that we lose is a 'waste of money'. I think many others share this opinion. With our uncanny ability to lose games we should win at least once a year, I think people decided they didn't want to buy tickets to a game we could potentially choke away. Now, obviously this is related to the offensive issues, but I'd wager a lot of money that if VT went undefeated against marque opponents, and won every game 3-2 or 2-0, we'd still sell out.
TL;DR Wins, quality of opponent, and kick off time matter most in ticket sales (in that order IMO).
I don't think it is CF becoming less popular. I think it is more popular than ever. The drop in attendance can be attributed to a few things:
- The economy. It isn't just the cost of the tickets. Travel costs add up quickly when you're looking at lodging for 1-2 nights. My wife and I are going to the OSU game from Chesapeake and we decided to drive up Monday and stay in Roanoke that night.
- Watching the game on TV isn't that bad when you look at HD and the size of TVs now. I have a 75" and it is great for watching the games. Not to mention I can walk over the beer fridge and get a fresh cold one very easily.
- Other priorities. I love my VT football, but I have an 11 month old that takes up a lot of my time and MONEY. I had a friend that offered me two of his season tickets and I couldn't do it. It was extremely tempting, but I don't know how many games I'd be able to make this fall. The price of the tickets was not a concern...it was the travel (see first bullet) and my money is going to the little one.
You just raised probably the most important point of this thread. Attendance is down concurrent with popularity of the sport on a steady rise. It'd be one thing if it was apathy keeping fans away, but it isn't. Like I mentioned just above this, the challenge isn't making people care about the sport, it's providing fans a reason why they have to be there in person.
I think conference expansion has a lot to do with the national trend. Teams that did not have a big following (WF, DUKE LOLUVA) could count on the other teams in the conference filling the stadium, and scheduled teams that travel well or were geographically close to visit. Now those slots are filled with BC, PITT, Syracuse, etc. With the bigger conferences there are more required conference games that are not rivalries. Who cares about Iowa State vs WVU, Colorado vs WVU, etc.? It says something when teams want to play teams in their conference as out of conference games.
ESPN3 has to negatively affect attendance for a majority of games played (not necessarily "VaTech*" (sigh... #sarcastica)... but most schools). Games that wouldn't be televised are now easily seen without leaving home.
*The "VaTech" was a shot at several ESPN commentators inability to say "VT" or "Virginia Tech".
Is there a section that's famous for being loud and boisterous outside of the student sections?
I'm now 3 years out of Tech but would love to have seats in a section of fans who stand and yell the entire game
This is something else I'd like to see Whit do. I know Florida has a young alumni section. It's separate from the student section, but there's not families there either.