http://minnesota.cbslocal.com/2015/05/19/nfl-to-change-extra-point-kicks-to-longer-distance/
In a nutshell they are moving the extra-point back to the 15. The 2-point conversion will still be from the 2. Trying to add a little more skill to the play and hope that more teams elect to go for the 2. Also, the defense is now allowed to return turnovers on the extra-point for 2 of their in the event of a turnover or blocked kick.
Haven't seen this posted yet. What are your thoughts on the move?
Forums:
DISCLAIMER: Forum topics may not have been written or edited by The Key Play staff.
Comments
sure, why not? I think the objective here is to please the fans. Give them more entertainment. I'm okay with it.
so, what you're saying is eventually the NFL will be the XFL?
In other news, there aren't a lot of worthwhile XFL images that are safe for work...
You still have to love this...
Was really disappointed the NFL didn't let him do that when he signed with Carolina.
Did someone say XFL?
love how having a former playmate of the year for a girlfriend registers higher on the stats than his record as starter. If that doesn't define XFL, I don't know what does.
I like it, hopefully it more teams will go for 2 now. extra points are kind of boring since they are basically automatic (over 99% successful I believe) but they percentage goes down when you move it farther out so gamesmanship will change. I also definitely like going to the college rule where the D can return it for 2 points!
The problem is that the percentage from 30-34 yards is still like 96%. So the reward:risk ratio of 1pt vs 2pt attempt is basically unchanged.
If they really wanted to do something to make it interesting, they should have just moved the extra pt line up by a half yard or a yard to encourage both more 2pt attempt - and more fake 1pt attempts. Or you really want drama and screw with Vegas, do something really crazy like make the 2pt try worth 3pts, but it's minus 1 if you miss.
The coin toss should be replaced by two guys running from opposite ends and fighting over a ball dropped in the middle
Not being political this makes me laugh
THIS ^^^ gets my vote for meme of the day. LOL.
Really? We're doing the puns thing again? We're doing the puns thing again...
I used to work on the cruise missiles centered in the picture there! Fun fact.
Finally. When I try to explain the rules to this sport to my friends, this is the hardest rule for them to get. They always ask why not just give them 7 points for a touchdown if the extra point is so easy. To them it is just a stupid rule and I agreed. At least now they have to work a little harder for that point.
That is both one of the most awesome and disturbing gif's I have ever seen, thank you for it!
After much consideration for the safety of our players the NFL and Roger Goodell has decided to replace the footballs for extra points with all the vehicles of the New England Patriots Organization and players.
Annnnd it's Good!
Let's do this in Bristol during Hokies vs. Vols game. Good way to mix autos with football.
This brings up a couple of interesting scenarios.
1) If with time running out and your team down by 5 you score a TD to take a 1 point lead. Do you
a) Go for 2 to try to make it a 3 point lead,
b) Go for one because it's the easier make, or
c) Line up for 2 but take a knee to stay up by one, playing it safe in case of a bad snap and turnover that could cost you the game on the PAT?
2) Also, lets say there is a bad snap on a 1 point PAT, but your holder is able to either run it in or complete the pass to score, is it worth 1 or 2 points? The team decided it would try for 1 when they lined up, declaring to the defense their intentions, and the defense would be set to rush the kicker, should they be rewarded with an extra point if they managed to get the ball in the end-zone? If so, then what's to keep a team that's expecting a heavy rush on the kicker at a key point in the game from pulling a fake and scoring 2?
Just some thoughts...
Thinking about how this could affect play calling and fakes is interesting. Where you line up clearly dictates your intentions. But does that limit you to kicking if you are starting at the 15? Is it easier to score from the 15 vs the 2 due to having more room for routes to develop and holes to be found in coverage?
your second point definitely raises a great question. I wonder how that will work. In my mind, they should award 2 points to the kicking team if they manage to run or pass the ball into the end zone in that scenario. However, I would imagine that the NFL will put some rule in place where if you elect for the 15 yard kick all players are deemed ineligible receivers and it would be illegal to advance the ball. You either get your 1 point for making the kick or you get nothing.
I was under the impression that the ball remains in play until it's recovered by the opposing team, or the team with possession gives up advancing the ball. I thought if you bobbled the placement, you could theoretically pick it up and run it in for a two point conversion.
I would assume that it would still be two points as if the defending team blocks the kicks it has the ability to return that for a 2 point score now.
Re: 2)
Teams have intended to kick field goals; on rare occasions, a team would botch the snap and get a TD out of it. I'm sure the same scenario would exist for EPs. I don't see how intent has to do with result. As far as I can tell, intent only has to do with lining up the ball.
Teams will not try and pull off a fake from the 15. Currently, teams are 47% successful going for 2 from the 2 yard line. I have no idea the percent of success of a fake field goal from the 15, but I'm guessing it's less than 5%. Simple math will tell you that's a bad idea.
I wouldn't bet on that. It may be unlikely, but somebody will do it, especially if the reward is 2 points.
Example:
It's late in an important game, which has been low scoring because of good defense on both sides, your kicker is a little shaky (and let's say Kyle Fuller is lined up on the kick block team). You just scored to go up by one, and you don't have a great running game so you don't think you can make the 2 point conversion straight up. You know they've got to try to block this kick and return it to win the game because your defense is pretty good. If your coach is a gambler.... He has 2 choices, try the kick and hope it doesn't get blocked, or call the fake assuming they will go all out to block the kick and catch them on their heels for the 2 point conversion. Possible? I think so.
What NFL kicker is shaky on a 32 yard kick? The % from 32 is probably about 96-97%.
The decision tree goes like this: Is it better to be go for 1 pt or 2 pts, depending on game scenario, risk, elements, etc.? What's my team's best chance to get there?
In your scenario, the decision virtually chooses itself. It is obviously better to go for 2 points to go up by 3 points. Nearing the end of the game, a 2 point lead is virtually no different from 1 point (let's not consider safeties due to their unlikely nature, especially at the end of their game). Thus, there is NO reason to line up on the 15, because 1 point is worthless and a fake is extremely unlikely to be successful. The fake is ever more likely to fail considering the value of 2 points in this situation and the opposing coach knows that 1 or 2 point differential is virtually indifferent. (It's like trying to pull off a fake punt after a timeout.)
I find the scenario in which the coach doesn't believe his can make the 2-pt conversion dubious, considering the team has to score a TD to even be in this situation. But, I guess defensive TDs are a possibility. However, even if the coach doesn't think his team can make the 2-pt straight up, it's virtually certain that it is a MUCH higher percentage play than the fake EP, especially considering NFL teams as a whole average 47% on 2-pt plays.
For the fun of the hypothetical let's say you're facing the best 3rd down/red zone D in the league, and you scored on a long pass where there was a busted coverage. 2 yards wouldn't be a given. And as for the shaky kicker, if Kyle Fuller is on the other team, you may be in Chicago, it could be cold and windy. We could do this forever, point is I see there being the chance of someone trying a fast one. We've all seen crazier calls (looking at you Seattle) some work, some don't.
The coach has zero choices. Kyle Fuller is on the opposing team.
I didn't say it was likely, just possible. We've all seen coaches buck the trend in the hopes of catching the other team of guard. If it works, he's a genius, if not, he's a bum. But I bet someone will try it especially in the first year.
Will the one point safety be a thing now?
This is silly. The only reason they even started discussing this was that no one was sticking around after commercials to watch the extra point because it was a gimme. The actual solution is to stop showing commercials after the touchdown, and after the extra point, and sometimes even after the kickoff. Instead we're going to endure the same insufferably long amount of commercials for what's now just a borderline gimme.
In my years of watching NFL, I have never seen a commercial break between a TD and a PAT.
Every TD is reviewed inside of 2 minutes they go to commercial all the time
This. And that commercial apparently doesn't affect the length of the pre-kick off commercial. Or the occasional post-kickoff, pre-first snap commercial.
Don't give them any ideas.
I wish they had gone full bore and moved the 2 PT try to the 1 yard line.
I know that the Eagles and Patriots, along with the competition committee, were the 3 entities that submitted these proposed changes. The owners agreed to moving the PAT back and the 2 point opportunity for the defense.
I like moving the kick back, it makes the placekicker a more valuable position on your roster. I think the Eagles were the only 1 of the 3 to propose moving the 2 point try up. I think Chip wanted to make Tebow more valuable. I wouldn't be surprised to see Tebow as the holder for all kicks, because as mentioned above it opens some interesting options on a fake PAT, especially if there is a full rush coming. Talk about a skillset to run a zone blocking play or an easy toss to a wide open TE a few yards downfield.
Amazing... a rule change that takes the must mundane play in football and makes it something worth trying to coach up and gain what could be a massive competitive advantage in games.
I really like the proposal.
I don't like kicking the extra points from the 15. It is arbitrary. It also would prevent a team from faking an extrapoint and going for two. No one is going to attempt to convert for 2 from 15 yards away when they could be 2 yards away. I have tried explaining american football to foreigners and it is a hard enough task. Try explaining this?
In my opinion the line of scrimmage for the extra point and two point conversion should be the same (either the 2 yard line or 1 yard line).
The 15 yd line is not completely arbitrary. I saw on NFL tonight that field goals from 15 yd line (32 yarders) are made at 92%. 2-pt conversions are made at 47%. Thus, on average, if you kick the EP you will get .92 pts. If you go for 2, you will get .94 points. They wanted those two scenarios to be virtually the same value.
Your numbers can't be right. In 2014, kickers were 99.3% on extra points (i.e. from the 20) and 95.8% from the 30-34. I'd guess that the percentage from the 25 would about 98%...essentially no difference from the extra pt % of 20 years ago when it was still considered automatic and teams rarely went for two.
The numbers are from NFL Live that I saw last night, not my own. I don't know where they got the numbers from, but their point was it is now slightly better (but essentially the same) to go for 2 or to kick from the 15 (22 yarder). Last years number contradict that, as I have the percentages of NFL field goals in a post below (~98%). So, I don't know, maybe NFL Live had it wrong. 92% for 22-yard field goal is really low.
Edit - I'm an idiot, a kick from the 15 is a 32 yard attempt. Thus, NFL Live is probably right and 92% is the correct percentage and NFL from the 15. (NFL averaged ~90% from 30-39, as indicated in my lower post.) Therefore, my original comment likely holds true. That it will be more valuable to go for 2, than to kick the EP. One caveat - the FG% include kicks at both hash marks and anywhere in between. The EP will always be lined up in the middle of the field, possibly increasing the % made.
Sorry, didn't mean to imply that they were "your" numbers...
But still, it's not slightly better to go for two. It's still slightly lower to go for two.
And risk averse as NFL coaches are, I predict they focus most on that 25% chance of losing 2 pts every 2 scores and continue to go for 1 unless they need 2 late in the game. Pretty much like before.
The extra point will be 32-33 yards not 25 depending on the spot of the ball after they hike it back to the holder.
Yes. And your point is?
I agree. I think putting it at the 15 seems like compromise that accomplishes nothing. Among other things I find it flat out goofy that you have to essentially declare your intentions before a play.
I wonder what a drop-kick extra pt on a play run from the 2pt conversion line would be worth?
Isn't the 2 yard line arbitrary? Or any distance?
I also like the idea of getting rid of the extra point. Award 7 points for a touchdown and if the team elects to attempt an extrapoint conversion...they would receive 8 points if successful and 6 points if they fail.
Why don't we just come up with a statistical model to approximate the chances of making a field goal? If you get within field goal range, on fourth down you have to choose FG or punt. If you choose FG, a computer will tell you if you got 3 points or if you turned the ball over on downs. Completely get rid of that pesky place kicker. It would be glorious /s
I still like field goals and kickers. A team is rewarded with a touchdown if they can make it all the way down the field, but they are also rewarded with an easier field goal if they make it most of the way down the field. To have a well rounded team you need good kicking, so you can make the more challenging field goals. But the way the extrapoint is right now...you make it whether or not you have a good kicker or a bad kicker. It is just too easy.
Well, if we get rid of the placekickers and eliminate kickoffs, eventually we'll get around to punters.....then what do we call football?
foozball?
I'd say, make extra points like how they are scored in Fantasy Football...
1 point for kicking while lined up at the 2
2 points from the 15
3 points from the 25
4 points from the 35
5 points from the 45
just extra points or field goals in general?
Extra points...
Make it something to scheme for and gamble upon. You score a TD and then hit the extra try with the kicker standing at midfield, I have no problem awarding 11 points for the overall score. It would make games far more chaotic than they are right now requiring a lot more scheming by coaches. It would change the game, but it would make it more exciting.
And to add in an extra level of risk, if you miss the extra try, the opposing team gets the ball from where the ball was placed by the holder on the try. Imagine a spot where, late in the game you score a TD to go up by 6 with 90 seconds left. Do you go for the 2 point try and put yourselves up 8, knowing you'll have to kick off? Or, do you go for 1, intentionally miss, knowing your opponent will get the ball at their own 7 yard line.
10 points if he makes the kick while blindfolded and standing in the Zone of Confusion (spin three times before kicking).
Obligatory Calvin & Hobbs leg.
Metaball
Your proposal is infinitely more exciting than the proposal that passed. I laugh at some of the changes the NFL makes and how they backfire. Like when they changed where a team takes over after a missed field goal from the line of scrimmage to the placement of the kick. They did that thinking it would encourage less field goal attempts and more 4th down conversion attempts. It resulted in more punts.
Interesting scenario, so I quickly calculated what the optimal attempt would be using all the field goals attempted and made in 2014. Because the data is 50+, 40+, 30+, 20+, 0+, I couldn't use your numbers exactly, so I decided to use 5 pts for 50+, 4 pts for 40+, etc. Compilation of all field goals attempted in NFL:
It is optimal to take a 40 or 50 yard EP. Thus, in theory, you should see mostly 45 yard EP attempts. However, this would depend on how reliable the individual kicker is, the current score, time left in the game, and environmental elements. Perhaps, a 1 pt from 10, 2 pt from 30, and 3 pt from 50 would yield interesting results. On avg, you would get 1 pt from 10, 1.8 from 30, and 1.8 from 50. Thus, the 30 and 50 are weighted the same; strategy (risk-adversity) and the extrinsic factors would be of higher relevancy.
So there's math to back up that what I'm saying would make the game more exciting?
Seriously, though... That alone would make a much better game. The possibilities for chaos are endless, and yet, it puts a big emphasis on having a strong kicking game, because they can significantly turn a game even after TDs. Plus, it helps ensure the best teams at the end of the year are top notch in every phase of the game.
Isn't that how Australian rules football is scored? Or distance along with two sets of goal posts?
Not quite, lifted from Wikipedia since I'm not super familiar with Aussie football (though the games I've watched were really entertaining):
All I know is kicking a PAT from the 15 still seems pretty automatic (I know kickers miss them sometimes, but still) except for when Washington needs to make the kick to win a football game. At that point the only thing in question is how hilariously pathetic will they be in messing it up.
It'll be interesting to see what a team does while attempting the extra point kick, and gets called for holding.
Do you now try the 43 yd field goal for 1 pt, or go for 2 pts from the the 12?
Although another way to make it more competitive is maybe move the 2-pt conversion to the 5 and that's the only extra point attempt you get. Take out the normal extra-point.
see XFL comment above...
Extra points were automatic? No says the Cowboys fan. :(
Romo will never live that down. Hee hee.