First ODU is hosting a satellite camp with Penn State on June 18
Next year, they will host Jim Harbaugh and Michigan
Coach Bobby Wilder said he reached out nearly a month ago to first-year Michigan coach Jim Harbaugh and that they have spoken about half a dozen times since.
"We really wanted to do one this summer but just couldn't get a date that worked for both of us," Wilder said.
Mid-major programs such as ODU and Georgia State are willing to host bigger-name schools because they believe the camps attract high school prospects who normally wouldn't come to their campus.
"We're reaching out to other Big Ten teams as well. We've already spoken to Maryland. We're working on bringing them here next summer."
He said Whitcomb also plans to see if Ohio State and Michigan State are interested.
"Both schools recruit this region," Wilder said. "We're going to hand pick the schools that we feel we could have a great relationship with and that we also feel like would be attractive to prospects."
Comments
Hey ODU...
So just to be clear are you mad at them for being creative and trying to draw as many star and rising players who otherwise would NEVER set foot on ODU's campus, while the ACC went all ostrich and ignored and left in place rules that hamper member schools from competing.
Or are you mad they are brazen enough to try to build themselves into potentially becoming the #2 FBS program in the state?
Aren't they already the #2 FBS team in the state?
Well, there are only 2...
That was the joke...
Not liking this at all. We are having a tough enough time keeping quality recruits in state without other schools inviting others in to give their pitch. I can understand why it would be attractive to ODU and other mid-majors but to me it seems like those schools are not looking at the long term picture. Probably great for the short-term boost in recruiting but once you get over the hump and start becoming a bigger player it will be hard to keep those schools out.
Why do you assume they are "out" right now. The 757 is a nationally known hotbed as evidenced by the likes of tOSU, FSU, Bama and others routinely pulling recruits as I know you know. This is a great all around move for ODU, they can get players who would never otherwise set foot on campus and try to build a relationship with all of them, many of the lower tier ones will be realistic recruits, and you never know with the blue chips and they likely wouldn't have any shot if not for the camp potentially.
I stated that I could see why it would be attractive to ODU. The two problems I have with it are that one, it will probably hurt Virginia Tech in recruiting and since I am a complete VT homer, anything that may negatively impact the Hokies I automatically hate. But more importantly while every school recruits outside their area, all schools should have an area that is considered their turf so to speak. Yes any 5 star, high 4 star will get national attention but Virginia Tech made their money on 3 star recruits out of that area that were under the radar for national exposure. That will no longer be the case as those High School kids will all be at the camp to be seen.
In the long run for ODU once they start getting good they will also want to lock down the 757 area but it will be too late. The invited schools will have built relationships with the surrounding High Schools and instead of competing with Virginia Tech and UVA they will be competing with many more schools.
My assertion is that the 757 is already wide open, that holding these camps is not really making it any more wide open or harder for ODU to secure for recruits that they could realistically land. It has been heavily recruited for 15 years at this point. There are no more and haven't been for a long time those 'under the radar guys" who don't have lots of tape or haven't gone to a lot of camps. The big boys already have relationships that aren't going away and have been in place since before ODU had football, if anything it is ODU using the big names of Franklin and Harbaugh to develop their brand more.
I get where you are coming from and I respect what you are saying but in the end I don't care if it helps ODU. I care if it will hurt Virginia Tech and since I don't see any positives for VT but I do see negatives I don't like it. Now of course if VT went to a smaller college up in Michigan or Ohio and started doing that I would be all for it.
Certainly. I will have to look for the article, but IIRC up until this past year the SEC and ACC had rules against holding these camps, which they have now gotten rid of. Hence why it was the B1G that had a head start.
I think we need to consider doing one down at that FL high school we have a pipeline too.
Last I saw the ACC and SEC haven't gotten rid of the 50 mile radius rule. I have seen that if the NCAA does not ban the camps, then the SEC will drop the rule in 2016. Where did you see the ACC and SEC got rid of the rule?
Might have just been that they were talking about it, If I had to guess I think it was in a Bitter Blog post about the Spring ACC meetings.
I think they still have the rules in place, as evidenced by Saban's whining about it being unfair. The problem, as I see it, is southern schools have very little to gain by going north as the top recruits are already familiar with them while having camps in ACC and SEC territory gives northern schools exposure and a chance to build more inroads into the part of the country that has talent at very little cost o them. given the shift in demographics over the last 20 -30 years has resulted in a lot of talent that would have been in Ohio, Pennsylvania and Michigan is now in the south. As a result the B1G needs to make more inroads into the south to get top players. The traditional powerhouse will still be able to recruit on their turf while getting their building pipelines to areas they have not traditionally drawn as much talent. Meanwhile, the ACC and SEC, if they start camping beyond 50 miles will merely continue to compete with each other.
If the B1G can siphon more talent while letting the traditional southern powerhouse fight in the same pool the B1G wins at the ACC's and Sec's expense. It's a zero sum game that could work in their favor. I really doubt you'd see Saban and Miles holding camps in conjunction with BGSU or Miami. Instead, they will expand their footprint in the south just to counteract the B1g's forays into what they consider their turf. Meanwhile the B1G gets to make the SEC/ACC spend time and money on recruiting in areas they may not have had to before the new camping strategy. it's simply applying the adage of forcing your competition to fight on their home turf to keep them out of yours. It's telling that Saban wants other conferences to adapt the EC rules rather than have the SEC eliminate theirs.
Meanwhile, ODU gets to piggyback on the big names and get talent to visit them that they made not be able to attract absent the camps. They aren't going to win many head to heads against Bama, VT, or Uf so it's really a low risk high reward deal of them if they can sign talent that may not have considered them and normally would wind up as a second stringer at the traditional strong recruiters.
I'm debating whether there is any value in going to Ohio, Pennsylvania, or Michigan. There's sure enough talent in those areas to draw a crowd to a camp, but naturally nowhere near the density of high-level recruits as one would find in the 757.
Maybe we should set up camps in Texas, California, and Florida. Lots of talent there, too.
TX, CA and FL are definitely leading in number of 3*+ recruits.
As for OH, PA and TSUN vs south east VA the density aren't that different. PA and VA have roughly the same square mileage and number of recruits, OH has the same size as well but about 2x the recruits, with TSUN is, as usual, and under performer with fewer recruits spread over a larger area. Still, the big three plus GA are much more attractive in terms of number of recruits.
Data Sources:
http://www.sbnation.com/college-football-recruiting/2015/4/15/8143431/st...
http://www.theus50.com/area.php
And with this post I have officially revealed my nerd credentials...
Yup, I see the comparison between PA and VA, but in VA the high-level recruit density is very high in the Tidewater region and lower elsewhere, making ODU a great place for a camp. If we went to PA, would we try to set up shop in western PA? That's probably the best area, but Pitt is right there, the whole state is a PSU area, and Columbus is right across the border, not to mention WVU nearby. Virginia Beach has no real significant schools nearby and has lots of high school talent.
Tough to say if there's a good place to have camps for us, but I don't think the ACC should stick to their guns on the 50-mile-radius rule.
Having been stationed in the Tidewater area I can attest is a bit far from other civilization...
What would be interesting would be to see if the recruits tend to cluster at a few high schools; so you could then see where it would be fruitful to hold a camp or if the schools are too far apart to get a critical mass o participants at the skill level you want.
I agree the ACC (and SEC) should dump the 50 mile rule because it would help the B1G more than it would hurt them while being potentially harmful to the SEC and ACC recruiting efforts.
Seems to me you work to your strengths. If we want to hold a camp in Pennsylvania, we have the former OC of Temple on staff. You use the in that you have.
Whit needs to get Eastern Michigan on the phone right now.
Or Cincy...
ODU is pissed we stole Zohn from them.
I know others are not on board with this, but I am. There is no reason we cant do the same. IIRC the ACC revised their rules on it this year as well as the SEC, the NCAA lets it happen the ACC is just hurting itself by restricting member schools.
Hell UVA has begun holding a Scrimmage in the Spring out there, we are ignoring our own ability to do that and build stronger ties in the area by showing that while we would love for them to come to our world class campus facilities sometimes that isn't practical as a first step so lets go to them.
I don't fault Penn St or Michigan for doing this. I fault ODU for whoring themselves out like that.
That said, I would love if we could schedule an agreement with UNC Charlotte to have some workouts down there. Maybe schedule something with the College of Charleston as well.
I have such mixed feelings on this, to be honest. But my main feeling is f**k ODU. (sorry guys, there's just no mature way for me to express how I feel about them for doing this)
Can someone remind me why we bothered scheduling a series with these jokers?
Because it gets us in the 757 for actual games? That is pretty much the only way to one up having camps there.
Or we could go the Bama/UAB route and refuse to play any lower tier FBS school in the state and be dicks actively hoping they fail.
Looks like Michigan is going to (attempt to) challenge Florida State, Ohio State and Alabama for Virginia's top recruits.
And this is why it is vitally important that we place a huge emphasis on recruiting nationally. Locking down the state is not realistically possible anymore, and its a borderline pipe dream we should give up. There are too many national powers already bleeding us dry for our top in state talent, and now we have mid majors whoring their regions out to the rest of them to finish the job.
The recruiting game has changed, and the sooner we place an emphasis on adapting to that change, the better off we'll be.
Well said, I think we have pretty much stabilized and are maxed out at the 1/3-2/5 or on a great year 1/2 of the top 30ish recruits in Virginia who take Tech seriously or commit. That is the best we will get and more then many other large state schools, so the deficit needs to be made up and built on wherever kids look and say Orange and Maroon might be for them.
I don't think any school can lockdown a state entirely, but Tech shouldn't easily cede Virginia. ODU is doing what's best for them, and I can't fault that. However, and I said it before, but the handouts their way (i.e. games against Virginia Tech) should end. A proactive move would be for Tech to throw up Virginia Tech billboards in visual range of where the camp is happening. A bolder move (if the rules allow for it, and if not, find a loophole) would be for Tech to hold it's own camp in the 757.
Even if we cancel the series against them they are still a rising G5 team. Who do we replace them with on the schedule? More ECU or Marshall, UNC-C, App State?
IIRC part of the reason we scheduled them was that it was a G5 game lots of fans could attend who are unable to get to Blacksburg, along with of course the recruits. Scheduling more games against WMU, or Ark St defeats that purpose.
Well, that's the one scenario where we can't just get more ECU...since we're doubling up with ECU/ODU several years.
Well then good thing we have Whit. Because Im sure Weaver would have at least asked the NCAA for the rules on playing the same team twice in a season.
Yep... One up ODU... We should have a annual series where we have camps with Norfolk State, and possibly even invite the likes of James Madison to do it with us. Screw over ODU the same way they're screwing us. Invite in someone to start leeching hometown talent that ODU would normally get like they are doing to us.
And yeah, stop playing them in football, and possibly extend that embargo to all sports.
Would you though be for stopping series or not playing any schools we could confirm who negatively recruited us? I am willing to bet things other coaches say does us much more harm then this camp will.
Negative recruiting is one thing... Its shady, but everyone does it (yes, even us)... Actively seeking out and inviting out of state programs to come in and train in your region to provide them a platform to showcase their own programs for a quick buck while also having scheduling agreements with in-state powers (who are contractually obligated to dole out financially significant payments for those games) is all kinds of fucked up, and we should be rightfully pissed off about it.
Make no mistake, what ODU is doing hurts VT more than any other program. They're actively trying to sabotage our in-state recruiting abilities just to make a quick buck while at the same time accepting the financial handouts we're giving them by having them on the schedule. You don't bite the hand that feeds you, screw them.
Sure it is a dick move and at the very least I am for not extending the series. But if we don't take those slots other P5 schools will, this coming season even NC State has a game @ODU.
How exactly would having camps at Norfolk State and JMU screw ODU? A MEAC school and a CAA school vs a CUSA school? Any 'hometown talent' they have that is D1 talent is going to go to a D1 school unless they have grade problems. That's about the only way they are ending up at Norfolk State.
I'm sorry, but I'm from Norfolk and ODU was the only other school I applied to other than Tech, so I don't really understand the animosity there. They are doing something beneficial towards their program. You want recruits to come to your school, win on the field. As someone who has made the journey across the state, I'm all for playing ODU in football and any other Virginia school in the olympic sports when we can.
...Because what they're doing is directly detrimental to VT's efforts to recruit? Aiding and abetting the opposition? They're inviting the enemy into the city walls in a time when we're being infiltrated enough as it is...
Everyone understands why they're doing it, even if it might be a little short-sighted, but that doesn't mean we have to like it.
Harbaugh and Franklin are getting into the schools and areas camps or no camps. Does it make it a little easier for them to get a bigger audience? Sure and I guess that is the frustrating part, but in the end, we have the same chances to recruit the kids just like any other school does. So no, "we" don't have to like it, but to whine like a child and say "we don't want to play you" is absurd to me.
So VT should recruit by winning their games, but ODU should recruit by doing what ever is necessary even if it directly hurts the other in-state schools? Seems a little hypocritical. In the end, I don't believe we should concentrate on hurting ODU, but figure out ways to help ourselves in a similar fashion.
I view this as renting out your front lawn to whoever will pay. Yeah you can do it (to an extent), and yeah you are directly benefiting from it, but your neighbors are going to flip you the bird for screwing over the neighborhood.
Joe's got it right. Cancel games with them and I really like the billboard idea. I understand ODU's motivation, but what is our motivation in the long run for helping them cut our throats? It may be legal, it may make sense from ODU's viewpoint, but we don't have to like it, and we sure as heck don't have to take it lying down.
I say we cancel all the Blacksburg dates and keep the Norfolk ones.
Keeps us from writing them a big paycheck, keeps us having games in the 757, and keeps those dates from going to rival schools. Now the buyout would probably be crazy big but maybe it would be better to do a smaller lump sum and move on.
i expect the rule to change one direction or the other before next year. as it stands right now we can't do this where most of our alumni reside but other conferences can? that's nuts.
This really sucks B**ls. I was afraid something like this would happen. Hell we cant land our top talents in our state and now you bring in a Harbaugh led Michigan to get extra exposure in the state. Uphill battle already with FSU and tOSU stealing them from under our noses. If you think about it....until VT wins a national championship..it will keep happening unless the kid grew up a Tech fan. I mean really, if you were an 18 year old stud coming out high school...you would love the "lime light" the national powers get.
you should refill your chill pill prescription
Chill pill....really dude....I don't think I was in a panic or out of line, I merely stated a fact!
I don't think you were 'out of line' but it seemed like a bit of an overreaction to me
we're not going to land every top recruit we go after. No one does. We have done okay with Frank's system. I know everyone likes those nice big shiny 5* recruiticorns but Frank built this program from practically nothing without those 5* kids. We currently have one of the most talented teams I can remember in recent history. Sure we had a lull in talent from about 2010-2013 but I think the staff has done a decent job of turning things around. Our recruiting has clearly improved over the last few years.
I don't really care that Harbaugh has a quick'n'easy way to recruit Va. In this day and age it's not that difficult to recruit kids from afar anyway. Coaches can travel with relative ease and every kid who's aspiring to make it to college via football has a highlight reel readily available on-line. Coaches can stay in touch with kids pretty easily now through apps like snapchat and twitter. Truly, the only advantage that Harbaugh gets by having a camp in Va is that he can evaluate under-the-radar kids and try to find diamonds in the rough. He'll have an opportunity to see a kid who might only be rated a 2* and see if he can make him work in his system. Honestly, every coach worth his salt will already know about (and likely be in touch with) the top players. The fact that teams are setting up camps out-of-state doesn't bother me that much. What do they really get out of it that they can't get already? They get to meet a bunch of kids at one time, most of whom probably wouldn't crack the 2-deep at most P5 schools. They get to evaluate lower level prospects who are lesser known commodities to the coaching world. So why are you worried about losing the top recruits? If anything, you should be worried about losing all those great walk-ons we've had. I'm okay with a coach from Michigan trying to find a kid like that. That's quite the risk and I'll bet he misses more often than he hits.
Could someone with a strong grasp of the NCAA rules and the ACC rules about this type of event explain it to the ignorant masses(me).
The NCAA rule says that coaches can't have/be guests at camps outside a 50 mile radius of their school unless invited as a guest. The ACC & SEC rule is the same 50 mile radius, but still doesn't allow the coaches to go even if invited.
I don't really see how this is good for ODU. Michigan is so much bigger and more prestigious, it's really just a way for them to recruit in VA I don't see any benefits for ODU except maybe borderline recruits going to get interest from Michigan, end up liking it there and committing. This is pretty unlikely though just because most recruits know where other schools are on the totem pole (just not the 5 stars that go to LOLUVA, obviously) and go as high as they can. Honestly they should be inviting us. It helps them out just as much as inviting Michigan (neither will really help them at all) and they freaking owe us for that series where we play at their little 20,000 seat stadium FOUR FREAKING TIMES. May sound a little harsh, but we shouldn't be playing there at all. They need to be taught that you don't ask a favor of someone and then f**k them over when they agree. Pisses me off
You're right. They're not thinking big picture here. Their mind set is seriously "we'll just get the runoff..." meanwhile they're setting up pipelines for OTHER major p5 prayers in the 757.
I seriously hope ODU never gets over the hump for this. As others have suggested I wish we'd cancel all our games...limit their exposure.
I understand where this anger comes from but I want to know one thing.
If say everyone's favorite ultimate Underdog UAB did this and brought in say Oregon to the Deep South, after Bama had finally agreed to a few games everyone would be on their feet cheering for the Blazers, would you be one of them?
And if anything I would say fuck it and cancel all of our home games with them and leave the away ones. The only way to trump this is to be there for a game, and as evidenced by NCST, and WF other P5 schools are happy to play them at home for the exposure.
Well Since Alabama has won national titles, gets 5 star players from all over the country consistently and seems to be borderline ethically in their recruiting endeavors already, I don't see an equal comparison.
Now saying Wake Forrest brings in an Alabama or Oregon or another team that already can get high end recruits, would be a better comparison. And I would personally be upset with Wake from moral standpoint, and that's all it comes down to. It seems immoral for what ODU is doing BECAUSE of the rules that are already in place to prevent the other schools.
Yes Bama does get the pick of the litter, but do you really think if the SEC relaxes their rules (which are still the same as the ACC apparently) there wont be a summer tour of Bama camps in CA, FL, and TX? Saban has complained in the past but it always is that the rules are uneven conference to conference, not necessarily that they should all be killed, just that there should be quality. We have no one but ourselves in the ACC to blame, we talk about being just as competitive as the anyone, well here is a prime example where we are holding ourselves back and not maximizing potential.
And my larger point was the anger here at an upstart program trying to be creative, when hardened and let to sink in over a generation is how you get things like Bear Jr trying to kill UAB football.
I don't consider the act of ODU inviting an out of state team to camp and take recruits away from the state as creative. I consider it as an "easy way out" situation. Michigan does the work and takes the recruits it can out of state and ODU benefits some by getting access to the players Michigan does not offer. It's a pretty good deal for them, but they are also burning bridges with every in-state college now too. So other than the opportunity to play a game in the 757 region, why should VT play ODU in football when they could easily schedule another?
You also make this claim of burning bridges. Sure we are pissed and not without some justification.
But with ACC coaches agitating and trying to get rid of the conference obstacles from getting into the game it is clear that they are comfortable with jumping into this brave new world of camps. And without any official statement from a coach or admin from Tech I think it is nave to assume that they take this as anything more then the new dynamic and part of the new normal of college recruiting.
Definitely an exceptionally lame move by ODU, but there is nothing stopping VT from doing this in Big 10 territory. Eastern Michigan? Bowling Green?
Perhaps in ODU's backyard at William and Mary?
Of course I don't know what the rules are. I also don't know the cost to the visiting school. I have to believe it costs some time and effort, which takes away from other things they might be doing. Interesting that ODU wants to have different Big 10 schools in every year. Penn State, Michigan, Maryland, etc...
I wouldn't be cutting the ODU games, as I see a benefit for VT in those games. Of course you don't have to play them every other year, which is what they've said they want. I'd schedule them like every 5 or 10 years.
ODU is very ambitious, as indicated here: http://hamptonroads.com/2013/11/odu-virginia-tech-agree-longterm-footbal...
for one, the ACC prohibits hosting or coaches attending camps outside a 50 mile radius of the school. so yeah, we aren't allowed to do that currently.
Also:
Talk about old information, geez. That article was written way back when the win streak was still in single digits...
I provided the link because it shows ODU's mindset, even if it's from 2013. If you have a more recent article, or think that the information there isn't relevant, then that's a different matter, geez.
I'd guess that the ACC rules are to prevent bad behavior between ACC teams, but nothing will get the attention of the ACC more quickly than the Big 10 doing it.
http://espn.go.com/college-football/story/_/id/12747859/acc-support-rule...
no need to take offense, just trying to set up a joke about our streak against the wahoos
Not everything is a joke about the Wahoos. Take for instance...
Ok, you've got a point.
Man you guys sure know how to whine about something
we're in the heart of the off season. We've whined about just about everything there is to whine about and we're just grasping for straws at this point. Anything and everything we can whine about is fair game this time of year
You don't internet often do you?
I will say this. The VT home-home series of games with ODU is the closest that VT can come to having the type of presence that these camps provide under ACC rules. It is not a one-sided charity donation to ODU. We definitely benefit from the arrangement as well. I do not like that these camps are happening, but to cancel our games with ODU over it is cutting off our nose to spite our face. Right now, VT and ODU would probably love to have a camp, but cannot due to ACC rules. But, hypothetically, what happens if we cancel the games, then the ACC changes the rules regarding camps? Is ODU so eager to work with us afterwards?
From this http://espn.go.com/college-football/story/_/id/12747859/acc-support-rule..., I think you can expect that if the NCAA doesn't change their rules, the ACC will change theirs.
After much thought and contemplation here is my complete, professional and 100% correct assessment of the Monarchs
More of the details, if you can stand it... Also repeats some of the debate listed above.
http://hamptonroads.com/2015/06/penn-states-allure-brings-numbers-odu
Dan Mullen also NOT a fan:
http://247sports.com/Bolt/Dan-Mullen-calls-out-Jim-Harbaugh-over-satelli...
What he says is true.
These camps aren't for "education", they're for recruiting.
Quote of the day from today's Richmond Times-Dispatch from Harbaugh - "In my America, you're allowed to cross state borders. That's the America I know." The blurb stated that he was "responding to criticism for holding 11 satellite football camps in seven states. ACC commissioner John Swofford, Alabama coach Nick Saban and Mississippi State's Dan Mullen are among those who have voiced their opposition to Harbaugh's camps."
This story just doesn't want to die.
Anytime you have to evoke a statement something along the lines of "that's the America I know" in defense of something you're doing, 99.9% of the time you're its a de facto admittance that said thing you're doing makes you an asshole and you'd be pretty pissed off if someone else did it to you.
something something free speech...
Spent a while trying to embed this but couldn't disable auto-play, so here's the link:
http://video-embed.al.com/services/player/bcpid1949044313001?bctid=42778...
Guess Harbaugh thinks it's totally cool to show off his dadbod, going shirtless at a high school with a bunch of minors. Because 'Murica.
I'll add the alt text because I think it's perfect:
Interestingly enough, the alt text is there on mouseover. Is that new?
no, I added that specifically (use the title="" syntax). I like presenting xkcd in the same manner he does on his website whenever possible.
But I also wanted to show it separately so people wouldn't have to know to mouseover.
Im sorry I thought this was America, Im sorry.