Jalen was a big time target for the Hokies. Elliott was on a visit to Notre Dame when he verballed. Shane Beamer having a really rough go recruiting in Richmond as of late.
I am blessed to say I am committed to the University of Notre Dame #F16HTINGIRISH pic.twitter.com/3HEXI4uRwK— July 7th (@Jae_Uno_) June 19, 2015
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It's not NSD yet. Best of luck if that's truly where he wants to be, though.
Parents are VT too. This is a shocker to me. And he is going to be a stud.
One of our best recruits if we can flip him.
Yeah this one is far from over. He committed on an unofficial visit to ND like Joe said, so maybe his emotions got the best of him. We'll see.
Yeah, his parents being VT grads really make this one sting.
I also wish the graphic didn't say "welcome home". South Bend is a ways away from home.
Doesnt really sting. I thought it might happen. Dont assume that because someone graduated from VT that they had a good experience at VT.
WTF is up with Shane?
Must be on LOA
Dwayne Lawson was once committed to the U and Clark to uSC. There's plenty of time to flip to the good guys ! It aint over yet!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!
How is this only on Shane? Under the new recruiting strategy didn't the position coach become a large part of recruiting players? So doesn't this also fall on Gray?
Or it falls just on the kid? Maybe he cried watching Rudy or something.
Maybe Shane is having a hard time adjusting to his new role as setup man. It's a different style than he's used to using. Shane excelled when he developed personal relationships with his recruits, and he can't do that with this new system of evaluating recruits and then handing them over to their position coach. Maybe his strength is the long game, which he can't do anymore. The fact that his recruiting area is struggling while our running back recruiting has improved makes me wonder if that's the case. Shane is selling his position, but for whatever reason is struggling in his assigned region.
It's like Yogi Bera's comments during his hitting slumps, "It's not that I can't hit, I'm just not hitting." Recruits in Shane's area just aren't committing to Tech right now.
Yeah, it's similar to what happened last year with a receiver from Richmond who everyone thought was coming to VT, ended up going to MSU. I talked with Shane and the kid's high school coach about that one before the commitment, and it was quite clear that everyone in that kid's world was telling him to go to VT. For whatever reason, he decided to do his own thing. Then there was DeBerry, who never really considered VT at all for whatever reason before heading to Oklahoma. I know people are quick to blame Shane (he's an easy target - "they're his recruits, why does he keep missing???") but a lot of those kids have had really strange recruitments. I don't know what he/VT have to do to turn things around, but things have definitely been tricky there the past couple of years. Shane's had too much success at too many places for me to be so quick to throw him under this particular bus.
He needs to be benched for Leal.
Nah, don't bench him, just switch him to TE.
Im a huge Shane fan from player to coach. I think he has a great future and if stays on the right track MIGHT even have a future at Tech. He has taken some unfounded criticisms from some uninformed people.
The jury is still out on Shane both as a coach and recruiter. The running back rotations, ( , frequency & situationally & number of rb's playing , when healthy over the past few years has been puzzling at times. Haven't seen many highly rated recruits out of Richmond area sign during last few years. I also hope he can turn it around . Time will tell. At this point I am not sold.
He did well at his other stops did he just come to Tech and forget how to recruit?
Edit: his list of top recruits
http://247sports.com/Coach/Shane-Beamer-5/AllTimeRecruits
Don' t know the answer to why recruiting in that area has been lacking the past three years. Also don't know if he has forgotten how to coach or recruit . However have seen the results of both.
His coaching of RB's for the number of injuries and poor O-line play I'd say he has done fair on the coaching side.
Yes,because of injuries at the rb position , there was no rotation. Only one healthy player. I would imagine that makes the rotation simple.
The rotation was set at anOSU and only changed because of injuries.
I have to agree with you on Shane, I am just not sold on him as a recruiter or a coach. Doesn't mean he isn't a great guy, but I personally think we could do better with a position and recruiter as a coach.
I'm curious, what would we want from our next RB coach? Just looking at resume, I'd say we'd probably want a guy with some SEC recruiting experience who has shown he can recruit with the best of them, and probably some special teams experience too. Oh wait, we've got that. So, assuming we could get a guy for one of the lowest coaching positions on the totem pole with as good or better of a resume, how would he be different? How would we upgrade? For right now, I'm firmly in the camp of "I'm not sure another guy would be better" on the recruiting front at least. Again, he's had too much success at too many places for me to think the misses in Richmond are 100% on Shane.
Really someone downvoted this? You asked a question of people unhappy with the RB coach and instead of answering they downvoted.
Probably incidental/mobile device fumble. My policy is offset and move on.
I can't fault any of the individual coaches ATM for our recruiting honestly. Most of the guys shane has been missing on have been national type recruits and those are the guys that head coaches close on. If Shane is the guy we are relying on and he isn't closing it's not his fault that we don't have a more active HC recruiting. As for his actual coaching I don't think he's a great coach, but that's why he's at the RB spot it's one that you generally don't have to be a great coach to suffice.
I think this sums up how I see things as well. I think at some point he'll be a pretty good HC, and he's a solid recruiter that could probably use a bit more help from higher up (that surgery/recovery was pretty poorly timed, and I think that had a pretty big effect on things apart from just Beamer's age - guess we'll see if things tick upward soon or not). However, he's in a spot right now where he doesn't need to be an outstanding position coach - he just needs to not screw things up now that he's got some toys to play with.
Yea it's lowest on the totem pole until you make him Associate Head Coach and he's now #2 guy. Now you include that and the line of good candidates could be a little longer
Let's compare to VT position Coaches
WR vs RB
I dont think much is needed for an explanation of success. But, Both came in on level fields of players (Limited/Non Existent Player Corps) and both recruited into 2014 the same 3 and 4 star players
As the Head recruiter it is his missing. As a previous successful recruiter it is even more his miss. (If it was the old group of recruiters that would be ok since they hadn't kept up with the times anyway and had other schools of learning from how to recruit.) If it's other coaches missing something than he needs to be helping whoever it is to close it out and how to do it or help himself out if it's himself.
At some point someone at a Head job has to take the responsibility. We aren't always just a block here or a block there away from this win or this recruit.
Shane isn't the "head recruiter." Stinespring is recruiting coordinator.
First, I can't believe we have to explain what Associate Head Coach means yet again. He's the guy that takes over if Frank is not available. That's it. That doesn't mean he's #2 in line or anything like that. Why? Same reason the get-back coach is usually a strength coach or something like that: he doesn't have a whole lot of gameday responsibilities. He's charismatic and a good speaker and therefore makes for a good fill-in if Frank isn't there. And, he doesn't have the same responsibilities as Loeffler or Foster on gamedays. That is 100% of what that means. He doesn't have any other special ranks or privileges or advantages on the recruiting trail.
Back to recruiting. So you're saying that a guy who has been extremely successful all over the SEC has now "lost his touch" or whatever in Richmond and therefore his misses are his fault and his alone. I don't buy it. As someone else mentioned, darn near all of his misses have been big-time, national level recruits - Shane's going after bigger fish. We're not going to win most of those battles as it is.
Think what you want, but 2 relative down years after 2 strong years and a solid body of work before that isn't enough to convince me that Shane is somehow a failure on the recruiting trail.
Or maybe someone with a lengthy Big 10 resume who also happens to have a son playing QB at VT??
[Note: I'm not saying this should happen, I'm just saying that if a coaching vacancy were to open up, this is the sort of resume that VT might have in mind]
The running back rotations have been fine. Other than 2012 when he had nothing to work with, he's gone with two backs getting 90% of the carries. I predict we'll see the same this year.
I too am a fan of Shane. The players love him, and the development of JCC and Trey tells me the guy can coach the position. I just don't know what's up with his territory right now. He isn't bringing recruits in, though. That part is just hard fact. I hope it's like TechHokie13 said above, just flukey recruiting stories. But everything should have pointed to Shane landing this one. There's being a fan of a guy, and then there's wearing blinders. Something is going on and needs to be fixed.
I really can't recall Shane losing a big battle that seemed "typical." His last few whiffs have all seemed like either the kid wasn't interested no matter what or a commitment came out of nowhere. For example, I don't recall many kids that Shane has recruited narrowing their lists, taking officials, getting down to a top 3 and then announcing and picking someone else where VT thought it had a good shot. I've got nothing. No idea what's going on there right now.
It's the latter example that bothers me. Some recruits aren't going to give us the time of day, and that's whatever. But the kids that go elsewhere out of the blue, it's getting to be enough that it strains credibility to say they are all just flukes. Elliot had every reason to come to VT. This one leaves me scratching my head big time.
I wouldn't worry about it too much. There are going to be those recruiting misses that are head scratchers.
Therein lies the problem. WE should worry about VT losing Big time Recruits in our backyard home state to out of Stae schools. VT fans gotta rid that culture of "we'll get'em next time".
Recruiting is national. The "stay-at-home" mentality is outdated. Sure, VT should always be the big boy in the state and we should try to be getting local athletes as our core, but look at what's happening. ODU is hosting Penn State and Michigan for satellite camps, while our conference bars us from doing the same. It's an uneven playing field. Until rules are evened out, there's only so much we can do while other blue bloods jump into the state while we're stuck in Blacksburg hoping for a rule change. Our coaches are expanding their footprint, with especially Loeffler and Searels going wherever needed to find talent. We're moving more on a national scale, which is past due but finally happening. As Andy said in a recent blog post, it's impossible to just close off the state's borders. It's just not going to happen. Should we make every effort for local talent? Yep. But we need to be doing everything else that everyone else is doing out of state, as well. And we are moving in that direction.
From a previous post I've made on this
Adding -
FSU is 54%
Oregon 8%
Ohio ST 49%
and here's 10 yrs visualized
FSU doesn't recruit Florida as hard as we recruit Va
These maps are really neat. Did you make them, or do you have a link?
http://labratrevenge.com/cfb-recruiting/
wish i could make them or help in keeping them updated as they are now 2 years old
have even more fun its all d1 school
Wow. Those maps are impressive. It looks like VT has the least expansive map than any other school. Even small schools in talent hotbeds have a more expansive footprint (see UCF, FAU, Texas State, and SMU). VT looks on par with Georgia State, Troy, Memphis, and USF; not the type of program VT aspires to be. These maps make VT recruiting look bottom tier.
And to think, people want VT to recruit MORE heavily in Virginia....
Recruiting has to be a national endeavor. It has to be. Too many schools have their recruiting tentacles spread all over the country trying to obtain top talent from everywhere and we must join that process. To not do so will be a recipe for disaster.
This is why I'm not too worried about all the kids from VA that don't come to VT, as long as we are able to get quality talent elsewhere.
I want VT to recruit better with the TOP prospects in VA or hell in any state. I don't see many people saying we should recruit more heavily in VA they are just sick of the top-rated players leaving every year.
Everything you say is accurate, and I'm not worried about percentage in state vs percentage out of state recruits. That wasn't the conversation I was trying to start and I'm sorry if that's what I came off as. My concern is that there's one coach on staff who has had a murder of a time recruiting his territory for the last little bit. I don't care if his territory is Richmond, or Florida, or Timbuktu. If he's noticeably whiffing in his territory, that's the concerning part, not where the territory is.
I'm also not saying to hell with Shane. It's more, hey, what's going on here. A traditionally strong recruiter is coming up lame. Not that we as random fans on a website can actually do anything to fix it, but it's definitely something worth taking the time to talk about, especially in the dead of the off season.
Recruiting nationally is really, really hard. There are only a few schools that can truly recruit anywhere in the country- ND, Michigan, Bama right now under Saban. USC did it under Carroll but I don't think they do so now (I'll stand corrected if the numbers say otherwise). Ohio State's expanding their recruiting reach under Meyer. Texas probably could do if if they wanted but they don't really have any need. It takes a lot of money and a lot of name recognition to be able to go to any high school anywhere and get someone's attention. The majority of schools focus on a region, and VT's no different.
This is becoming less and less true.
Downvoting to hide the truth? whether you disagree with it or not it's happened, happening, and expanding
National is where VT needs to go to. Football, and Top 25 football is a have's and have nots. Clemson receives legislators' initial OK to buy 2nd plane
It's not that we need to consistently be flying to California but we should be working to get our name in the list of great players from California. I'm ok with regions. Lets divide it up a little more modernly. Northeast, Southeast, Deep South, Western US, and Virginia.
Last year we were crazy about ourselves and getting a 5* Sweat at position much in need and yet this year the Weak-Side Defensive End isn't even being mentioned. The only 5* player we've had come outside of Virginia is a Fuller, and that's to easy to count. Winston chose FSU, living in Alabama
My issue/the issue is we should be recruiting the best players in the country, not excited we got good players from Virginia. yes i'm glad they are playing at VT
But if VT wants to put out that trophy case again and this time fill it they have to win at recruiting or change offensive strategy, or both. Oregon has done on offense what Bud foster has done on defense and has come very close at winning it all.
Just look at Alabama's change in recruiting and it's winning. Top 10 recruiting classes play in top 10 games at the end of the year
Let's look at Bama's recruiting starting in 2008- Saban took over in January 2007, so I don't know how much he had to do with that class.
2008: 18 from AL, 2 from GA, 1 from LA, 1 from MI (Mark Ingram), 2 from MS, 3 from TN, 1 from TX, 1 from VA, 1 from WV
2009: 10 from AL, 3 from FL, 5 from GA, 1 from KS (James Carpenter), 3 from LA, 3 from MS, 1 from OH, 1 from SC
2010: 9 from AL, 5 from GA, 1 from MD (Arie Kouandjio), 2 from MS, 1 from NC, 1 from SC, 3 from TN, 3 from TX, 1 from VA (Philip Sims)
2011: 5 from AL, 2 from AZ, 1 from CA, 4 from FL, 2 from GA, 1 from LA, 1 from MD (Cyrus Kouandjio), 2 from MS, 1 from NC, 2 from OH, 1 from TN
2012: 7 from AL, 1 from AZ, 3 from FL, 8 from GA, 2 from LA, 1 from MD, 1 from MS, 1 from TN, 1 from TX, 1 from VA
2013: 7 from AL, 1 from AR, 1 from CA, 2 from FL, 3 from GA, 2 from LA, 1 from NJ, 1 from NY, 1 from PA, 1 from TN, 2 from TX, 1 from UT, 2 from VA
2014: 7 from AL, 1 from AR, 1 from CA, 1 from CO (a kicker), 1 from FL, 2 from GA, 1 from IA, 4 from LA, 1 from MN, 2 from MS, 1 from OH, 1 from OK, 1 from SC, 1 from TX, 1 from VA
2015: 6 from AL, 1 from CA, 1 from DC, 3 from FL, 3 from GA, 1 from KY, 1 from LA, 1 from MO, 2 from MS, 1 from NJ, 1 from TN, 2 from TX
A few things:
1) The 2008 class in the state of Alabama was loaded- Marcel Dareus, Mark Barron, Julio Jones, Courtney Upshaw.
2) Bama started recruiting nationally more once they started winning titles. It's chicken-and-egg to some degree, but the teams that won 3 titles in 4 years had a lot of guys from AL and the Deep South. Once Bama became Bama again Saban was able to recruit to other places.
3) I have a feeling that if I dug deeper I'd find this isn't an isolated phenomenon- teams that win titles probably get recruits from different areas the following years.
4) I'm not sure VT can simply do what Bama's doing and expect it to work as well. To paraphrase Billy Beane, the A's couldn't do what the Yankees did because the Yankees were better at that, and it would just get the A's killed. If VT tries to recruit out west it's likely just going to be a waste of time until VT raises its profile.
I'm going to go out on a limb here and say that walking into a recruit's home/school and shaking his hand with 1+ National Champions ring on your hand may have something to do with this.
Oh, absolutely. Hell, I bet just getting to the title game has a huge impact. But without that ring/exposure you're probably not going to get a chance to talk to the kid if he's in an area of the country where you don't have a presence.
I know it is a lot of work, but could you go back and see how many of the Top 10/Top 25 players from the state of AL for each of those years went to Bama? That might help paint the picture as to how many top players are leaving the state and how many are staying "home". Off the top of my head, Jameis Winston is the only top recruit that I can think of that left the state.
2015: 2 of the top 10 didn't go to Alabama or auburn last year (miss st/Wisconsin)
2014: 0 of the top 10 didn't go to Alabama or auburn
We can't compare our program with either of those two though IMO, but that state is as closed to lock down as it gets.
Locked down and cranking the talent out.
From Rivals:
2008: 7/10, including the top 5
2009: 8/10, including the top 7
2010: 4/10, including the top 3 (Auburn got 5, Florida got 1)
2011: 4/10, got the top recruit (Auburn got 4, MSU got 1, Ameer Abdullah went to Nebraska)
2012: 4/10, #1 was Jameis (FSU got 3, Auburn got 2, GT got Justin Thomas)
2013: 6/10, including the top 5 (Auburn got 3, Ole Miss got 1)
2014: 6/10, #1, 3 and 4 (Auburn got 4)
2015: 4/10, including the top 2 (Auburn got 4, 1 went to Wisconsin, 1 went to MSU)
Bama always gets theirs from their state...and when Auburn's down, Bama gets Auburn's too. There's probably a Bama fan who is convinced that they've stopped winning titles because they aren't recruiting enough kids from Alabama nowadays.
one of the big things is that they get the TOP talent from the state most years. Even when we snag some of the top 10 in va it's usually the guys between 7 and 10. The few that we got lately that were ranked really high in state have not lived up to their ranking so far (joel caleb, Holland fisher).
Winning a few titles will help the cause there.
Lots of things will help with the cause, but most of them revolve around a HC closing/participating in their recruitments.
WE shouldn't worry about it at all. If you spend your time trying to figure out what 17 year old kids are going to do and you let their decisions influence your emotional well-being, you're gonna have a bad time. The culture of VT needs to be that of hard-nosed, tough individuals who represent their school well on and off the field. Honestly, I could really care less where they come from. Other school are gonna poach talent. The days of us locking down the top 5 or 10 guys in the state are over and they won't be back, no matter who the head coach is, for many years if ever. We've got to fill our needs, snag a couple of playmakers and develop talent. If we do that, we'll win games.
You waste your time worry about decisions that 18 year old kids make. I'll worry about the players we do have.
What's with the "NEXT"? Is ir like "Thanks for committing.....NEXT!!!"
The original source of the photo probably has more context. I would have to speculate that it is some sort of "Next man up" messaging.
I'm glad it was mentioned that Shane has had trouble recruiting. He's underwhelmed as the Richmond recruiter, hoping he can turn it around.
Holland Fosher, Joe, Caleb, Raymon Minor, DJ Reid, CJ Reavis just a few top tier recruits Shane has gotten out of the Richmond area.
Was shane the recruited with these kids? Not sure he was
Yes, as much as he was with any "misses" in those same years. People knock him for things but never give him credit.
Edit:http://247sports.com/Coach/Shane-Beamer-5/AllTimeRecruits
as well as he did the first two years he's whiffed on just as many the last two years, but like my other comment you can't blame him alone. Needs support from the big man in closing out national recruits.
To be honest, Coach Cav deserves much of the credit for landing Joel Caleb. As far as Fisher, Minor, Reid and Reavis, Shane did work. Reavis seems like he's going to be a heck of a player. However, recruiting and coaching is a what have you done for me lately business, and Shane's struggled in Richmond as of late.
So playing devils advocate why does coach Cavanaugh not get any blame for the misses?
because he's not on the staff recruiting the last two years?
Since 2011 he is the director of recruiting and director of high school relations. So same position he was in to get that player.
director of recruiting and the actual coach doing the recruiting are very different things. he handles more relationships with high schools and scheduling visits from what I understand. He also retired last year.
http://www.hokiesports.com/track/recaps/20140514aaa.html
I understand his titles are different, but Joe whom I trust to know this information said he played a major role in landing Caleb, he was not a coach when Caleb committed. So why did he not play a major role in landing all these "misses" that Shane gets blamed for.
Prior to his switch he was the lead recruiter for joel caleb hence Joe's comment. That is why he gave him credit for developing such a good relationship with Coach Cav and handing off the recruiting when shane took over his area. He was not the primary recruiter for any of the kids we missed the last two years in Richmond...
Again I understand that. But in his role did he not also play a role in getting these kids to commit? That's my issue everyone blames one person, Shane, when recruiting like the game itself is a team sport. When there is a "win"( signing a recruit) they should all get credit, and when their is a loss(recruit not signing) they should all share blame.
I don't believe he is allowed to have direct contact with recruits in that role. I've never blamed shane alone. I've said repeatedly in this thread if anyone is to blame it's on the big man. If you want to land elite talent now-a-days you have to have a HC that can close and put in the effort. We don't have that unfortunately.
By my understanding Cav can deal with them on campus but since he's not a coach, he can't leave campus to visit recruits. He can talk to their coaches at any time, but everything is conducted from Blacksburg, whether it be phone calls or e-mails.
Like another person points out below, Cav has been retired for over a year, and hasn't worked directly with the football program since 2013. The director of HS relations thing was a 2-year deal, 2011-2013.
Correct. I should have used past-tense, but the point regarding his responsibilities during his time in that role remains.
most of the misses in Richmond have been the last two years though, which is why you see some shane-bashing and not cav-bashing.
I don't agree with your perception of FB either. Almost every player and recruit talks about how great Frank is with them. How he is a father figure to them, how much he cares.
when they are on campus absolutely. I'm talking about time spent out recruiting, on the phone with them etc. Most of frank's recruiting is done while the recruits are on campus.
Cavanaugh retired over a year ago and transitioned to a new role before then. I don't think he has worked with the football program since 2013.
Shane coaches the hell out of the Military Bowl I know that.
My take:
He wasn't a critical need and there are limited spots. The staff has to address defensive end and still have room for Dickerson, Leota, Ellis, a longshot but must make room for Amir Mitchell, and Jordan.
Kid is going where he wanted to go. Maybe he'll change his mind maybe he won't. If he does hopefully it's because he wants to not because of his parents.
Good for him - I have no ill will. On to the next one!
Shane Beamer knows he's getting his butt kicked in Richmond recruiting. The fact that he RECOGNIZES it and is even willing to say it (but hates reading it) I think its better than him being in denial. What does VT need to do to turn that around? I have no idea. 17 and 18 year old kids are unpredictable.
What to do?... how about win more than 7 games. I think the perception of the program is down and its not helping.
Touche
He's working his butt off in an effort to land a '17 linebacker from Benedictine.
I have an 18 year old son who recently went through the pick a college thing. Here are some of things he used to rule out colleges to start with... Too close to home. Not academically recognized. Too much of a party school. Too small of a school. Too many people from his high school are going there. After that round of cuts he started with visits and applications and made cuts because... The students seemed snobby. He did not like the feel of the campus. The essay questions on the application seemed stupid. Too expensive. Too far away. After all of that he applied and got into 3, and chose the one who he felt was the best fit for what he wanted to study. Out of all those factors there are only a few any recruiter could have had influence over. As long as the kids who do come are citing the coach as a big reason they are coming here I'm going to believe they are doing their part, even if they have a bad percentage pick us some years.
We know why he eliminated UVA, but what about his reasons for other schools? :)
Well said.
Actually the snobby was Duke. The campus was Clemson. VT was too expensive (out of state). UVA got ruled out without a visit because, well, you know....
Rudy was offsides...