Boom.
Playing golf today with Frank Beamer. Standing over 40 ft putt he says, "This ain't pressure. We open with Ohio State." He drained the putt.— Lars Anderson (@LarsAnderson71) June 29, 2015
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This is another terrific Frank Beamer golf story: http://www.sportingnews.com/ncaa-football/story/2012-08-19/frank-beamer-....
wish he would take that approach with recruiting.
Edit: see gif below on this issue
Guess you are against any form of criticism since the program is hitting on all cylinders currently, right?
could at least be original with the animation.
It's not the criticisms, Alum has lots of great points as do many others, about a wide range of issues they see with the program. It's your continued use of one liners based on no actual facts that FB doesn't care about recruiting and doesn't do anything to recruit.
Edit: I replied to your comment I didn't realize I had already used it once in this thread.
Please find anywhere I've ever said FB doesn't care about recruiting and doesn't do anything to recruit. You won't find anything. I will say that he isn't very good at it and doesn't spend the required amount of time doing it to have a top tier program though.
When a man faces the dusk of his carreer his competitive fire burns hotter than ever because his days are numbered. So for all that say coach Beamer doesn't have "it" anymore, get ready to eat a crow pie. He's always been competitive and will be even more now as he faces the inevitable end of his carreer! Thanks Joe, now I'm ready to run through a wall and last time I checked its not September yet!
So that means no fart face.... nothing but I will kick your @#$ faces?
I hope he feels this strongly about losing out on blue-chip recruits too. I read some news about other head coaches flying in doing home visits the day before a recruit's decision. I feel like Frank should do everything possible to land these guys as well. Hopefully he has the competitive fire burning in regards to recruiting.
Edit: to clarify, I like Frank Beamer a lot, and my purpose for this post wasn't to slight him. When I read this story, I just wondered what he thinks about all the recruiting misses we've had. Does he get as mad at losing out on a recruiting miss as he does when he directly loses a competition? The only reason I threw out that example, is because I don't think it exists in a vacuum. If you do a simple google search on Nick Saban and in-home visits, you'll see tons of results of him visiting even recruits in VA (e.g. Dashawn Hand). If you replace Nick Saban's name with Frank Beamer, how many results are returned? It's basically non-existent. Of course, it could be just coincidental that no one ever reports on Frank Beamer's visits, but I find that more unlikely than if he isn't really doing many in-home visits with top recruits. But yes, I obviously don't have all the evidence, so I could be wrong.
I don't really want to see the vitriol that comes with this debate again, but he's not wrong. We need Frank, Bud and Lefty sitting in more homes with more recruits and their families. Sadly that's just how the recruiting game is played these days.
I'm not saying they don't do it. I'm just saying they need to do more of it.
Some people just don't think criticizing the program is acceptable I guess. Every program has areas they can drastically improve on and recruiting is obviously one of ours. Recruiting elite players today just seems like it's mainly about HC involvement and like it or not there is a reason we aren't landing many elite recruits unless their name ends with Fuller, and yes there are many other reasons as well.
My favorite part of this argument is the fact all evidence of this is drawn from one incident and not a history of situations where this occurs. We openly know of one situation in which "Beamer did not visit the recruit in his home" and in which many seem to believe that must be the reason why said recruit did not commit to us because it came from #SOURCES. But sure, let's just blame him for every big recruit we lost because he must not have visited them either even though we don't know one way or the other if he did or not. With that argument, we can also say that it would help if Torrian Gray said hi to a recruit's parents since that apparently cost us a recruit. Or why isn't Bud promising to do cartwheels for every recruit? Doesn't he want to land those big time guys to anchor his already stellar defense? This is just trifling stuff really.
Has nothing to do with one incident. Has to do with multiple reports from top recruits talking about their interactions with the HCs. The only time you see them mention beamer is when they are on campus and even then sometimes there is no mention. You do realize that when you are the head man the blame falls on you, especially if you don't address the issue and let them linger for long periods of time, right? If you think frank beamer spends 50% of the time on recruiting that nick saban, urban meyer, dabo swinney, etc etc etc do then there is no point in even talking about this anymore. He doesn't, period.
I'm not saying anything regarding how he's doing his job. I'm saying that this argument about Beamer not being an aggressive recruiter is silly because there's no way to quantify what he does and doesn't do. You can't look at it based upon who he didn't sign because you are limited in how many you can sign. In the end, yes, the onus is on the top of the pyramid, because, in situations like this, shit falls upward. But because recruiting is hidden behind so many doors created by the NCAA, the truth rarely, if ever, is revealed. Coaches can't talk about specifics so all you're hearing is one side of the story. And even then, the story is never complete because everyone will only recall what they want to recall. So any and all evidence is second-hand at best and must be taken with a grain of salt, not as the end-all-be-all truth of Virginia Tech recruiting.
you can make excuses for anything if you want, but the results are what they are. Go back and look at the offers to top tier players over the last 5 years and how many did VT land. I'm not saying beamer is an awful recruiter, but honestly based on his age/health/habits recruiting can't be a priority for him. During the closing stretch of NSD this past year he was not physically able to even talk to the recruits to potentially sway some of them. While that happened every other HC involved was able to. Again the results are out there for anyone to see if you really want to see the truth.
And how many other teams didn't land those players?
I know. I really wish Beamer hadn't planned on having throat surgery. Seems he could have disregarded his health in an effort to land recruits because that's what is important.
I mean come one. This is just getting more and more ridiculous. I'm not telling you that you can't think he isn't as good of a recruiter as the Nick Sabans and Jimbo Fishers of the world. I'm just saying that the evidence being used is far from the whole story.
The only thing ridiculous is that you think he puts in the same amount of time recruiting that other HCs do when every leading indicator clearly shows otherwise. His health is his #1 priority as it should be, but if that is getting in the way of VT's staff being able to do their job and close recruits to advance the program is that fair to the program? Here is a concrete example for you. Last year nick saban flew down to southern florida and toured the high schools for recruiting. When was the last time you've heard of FB doing something like that outside of a car ride a few hours down to NC?
How do you know or even guess how much time a HC spends on recruiting? People complain about how Bama and anOSU and FSU "steal" recruits away from VT, well I hate to break it to you but those Schools have bigger budgets, bigger histories, bigger fan bases and bigger staffs, all those things help in recruiting. Those schools all have multiple NC rings, spend millions on faclties and place plenty of players into the NFL. VT will be at a disadvantage for money as long as people refuse to pony up some cash for the Hokie Club and Tech will always be at a disadvantage because of size of fan base and history. There is only so much FB can do to compensate for those things going in.
I'm just going to chime in and say that I agree with parts of both sides here. And I agree that we are not on the same level as the OSUs and Bamas of the world. But there are things that I think are hurting/have been hurting VTs image when it comes to recruiting the nationally high-ranked guys. For as great as our 10-win streak was and the ACC championships, we frankly flopped big time way too much on the national stage. BCS bowl losses and big time OOC losses did not help our image as a program that can compete and win nationally. Also, I think allowing our offense to become an absolute embarrassment for so long likely turned away a lot of the big recruits as well. Beamer is a great coach, but he waited absolutely too long to do anything to correct our floundering offense, and it cost us in perception big time, IMO. And only really until now are we starting to see an emphasis on recruiting nationally as well. I feel we were just way behind in terms of catching up to the changing recruiting landscape. Doesn't mean we can't turn it around, but our national perception is not entirely a lack of money issue. Just my opinion.
Your opinion is dead on. I have always said I was really never that impressed with our 10-win streak, especially when they added a 12th game. We have flopped more than risen to the occasion in too many nationally televised games and BSC bowls games in the past 15 years. Our offense has hindered us more off the field than on the field directly to recruiting. I love Beamer for what he has done, but when his time comes to step down, whether it be after this year or 2-3 years from now, I will be very optimistic about recruiting, especially on the offensive side. (As long as we have Bud, I will never lose sleep over who we have on defense.) Lets be honest, if you take out MV's, Tyrod athletic abilities to make something out of nothing, and you can even throw in Bryan Randall too, our offensive output would of been the laughing stock of college football. IMO we need a fresh face/look for VT football's image.
Not impressed with a ten win streak? Why don't more teams have them then?
Nope. Because a lot of them play in a lot better conferences, beat up on each other. ACC has been on of the worst conferences in the recent past/BCS era. Sure you will have 1 or 2 top teams each year, but the rest of the ACC is down compared to similar positions in other conferences. Don't get me wrong, I would welcome a 10+ win season this season/any season, but I am not contempt with just that like a lot of VT fans are still.
Beat up on each other yet every year 2-4 teams were leaving the "best conference" with 1 or no losses. It takes a lot to go more than a year or two with ten or more wins.
Right, usually the best team survives. No way VT has that streak if they were in any other conference besides the Big Least. but you can go keep beating your chest to other rivals/fans that we had that streak, I do not, that just me. I care more about things that matter.
If the "weakness of the conference" were the sole reason for the 10-win seasons, one would see more 10-win streaks from the Sun Belt and MAC. But alas...
You sure do like to take things out of context. I never said the sole reason why we had our 10+ win streak was because of playing in the ACC, did it play a part? Sure. Did we have some good teams/great defenses that won games, absolutely. We have been an above average to good team in the ACC for most of the recent past but I am mainly talking about the power 6 conference, or I guess now 5.
In any conference, that type of consistency over 10 seasons is hard. It's very hard.
You can see how hard it is by the lack of teams that do it, regardless of conference.
We even upgraded a conference while doing so.
We dominated the ACC for a few years after joining as well as a NC appearance.
This is a great accomplishment.
It wasn't perfect but that does not diminish what was achieved.
Enjoy that.
Did I enjoy the streak? yes of course, who wouldn't? If we had a 10 win season after what we have seen in the past couple of years, that would be a great improvement. It was in my opinion that I wasn't impressed by the streak because of the factors listed above and I always have high expectations for VT. After the first 3-4 years of the streak it didn't mean much to me because of the many flops on national tv and disappointments in big games (ACC Championships, BCS bowls, top tier bowls, etc.) that happened later on in the streak. I'm different from some Hokies fans I have seen/met where they will be content with a 10 win season even if it meant going 10-4/10-3 and missing/losing the ACC championship game in the process, then winning some lower tier bowl to get to that 10 win mark. Just my .02
Our 10-win streak shouldn't be taken lightly. It's not easy to be that consistently good anywhere. But, take a look at where the rest of the ACC is headed now. FSU and Clemson have finally gotten their acts together, Louisville with their recent success have entered the conference, Duke is finally starting to becoming a decent football program, and Georgia Tech just beat the brakes off MSU in the Orange Bowl. This is not the ACC of 2006-2011 any longer. The conference is largely on the rise.
This all day long. One #source and FB doesn't know how to recruit, give me a f'ing break. The number of recruits and players who love FB like a father have me skeptical of this being the reason.
Just curious how long have you followed VT recruiting? If you followed it at all during the 10 win streak etc why do you think our recruiting has never been on par with our ranking/national recognition until recently when we've been a bit over .500?
Sorry but no.
Saying that every criticism of Frank not being in homes stems from one incident is about as "accurate" as saying that just because we don't hear stories of him in houses doesn't mean he isn't.
I think people view this topic and immediately throw up walls and stay on the polar opposites of each other and say things like "give me a f'ing break" and "he doesn't, period". That's not how discouse goes. And if either of you defending FB are referring to my post, I never said FB doesn't know how to recruit. Nor Bud, Nor Lefty. And that's the problem, you're taking a hyperbolic stance when I didn't make one.
FB and Bud need to be more active. This is not a new debate. Bud not liking the recruiting trail has been a topic of discussion since my time at VT in 95 - 99. FB not doing many late season recruiting visits also not a new topic. None of that stems from a single incident.
So tone down the vitriol and hyperbole. It's just perspective. Other programs are putting their HC front and center late in the recruiting season to close on big time recruits. Every year there are numerous articles of many other HC's doing so. It's just the way the game is played now. Does that mean FB is not doing it, no one knows for sure, but the lack of any verifiable evidence that he has been is somewhat suspect given the multitude of articles and social media posts from recruits, recruitniks and journalists about said visits.
So again, I'm not saying he isn't doing it, just that he needs to do more of them. Am I wrong?
I think Bud has had a renewed interest/effort level in recruiting the last several years as well. Not sure if it has to do with the possibility of taking over the program or just realizing he had to do it, but his effort has seemed better.
100% agree
I find it interesting that we're still hand wringing over how poorly our recruiting supposedly is while we're recruiting at a rather impressive improvement over what we've done in the past, and arguably have ever done, especially on offense.
Some people just live to complain, and are never happy, regardless of circumstances.
where do you see any of that in this thread? No one is stating our recruiting is "poor", but rather it could be improved with more of an emphasis from the head man. We're recruiting around 25th nationally as well which is what we have done on average for the last decade. The biggest improvements to me though are trying to take the correct amount position-wise per class and trying to recruit more players that play the actual position in HS.
Some people are happy staying mediocre and with the status-quo, regardless of circumstances.
I actually disagree about needing Beamer to be more active. In a time when everyone is using 'Beamer is getting too old' and 'he won't be your coach when you graduate' against us, the worst thing we could do is place a major role in recruiting on him. What we should be doing is allowing the younger guys on staff who are more in tune with the players coming out of high school and can better connect with them on social media and in person, to be the ones taking the major role in recruiting. Yeah, bring Beamer in to possibly help close the deal at the very end, but really, we need our specialized recruiters to do just that, recruit their asses off.
And over the last 2 years, its actually working. These new guys have cranked it up to another level, and we're on the verge of seeing it pay off on the field.
we've done that already and HC's are the ones that close on the elite recruits. Again our last two recruiting classes are statistically about our average for the last decade and those were in years where Virginia was said to have a more talented group of top end talent by a substantial margin.
Locking down the borders for Virginia is impossible going forward. Period. End of story. God I hate this argument.
We're in a new age of recruiting where, hey, everyone has access to these kids the likes of which we've never seen before. Doesn't matter if the school is in their backyard, or halfway across the country, if the kid is good, he'll have a coach from that school in contact with him as often as the NCAA will allow (and even that line gets blurred). The natural advantages about being the in-state school that used to exist are long gone. This is why you routinely see the top talent in states across the country go out of state to play sports. We're in an age where there are no borders to lock down, and every top school needs to be treated line an in-state opponent on the recruiting trail.
I don't give a damn that Virginia had all this great talent over the last 2 years. 15 years, ago, when recruiting nationwide was an effort in securing your top in state talent, yeah, it would have been devastating to miss out on them, but now, in this recruiting landscape?
If anything, we need to make it a legitimate effort to be more of a regional and national recruiting program. Our recruiting footprint right now is one of the smallest in the country. We're essentially playing the recruiting game with one hand tied behind our back. We need to go all out and emphasize getting top talent, regardless of location. In my opinion, that is the only realistic way in which we're going to improve our recruiting in any significant amount.
you're missing his point wildly, and again with more hyperbole.
He isn't making the argument that Virignia is "ours" and we need to lock it down. He is making that point that it has been especially fertile recently and we have not had success with it's top teir recruits. And no matter how much you "hate the argument" proximity does matter to recruits, which is why we don't see any southern california kids getting offers. So missing on those closest to us is an issue, especially when we are also missing on those not close to us.
simple as that
Well that's the thing. I firmly believe 'proximity matters' is a completely irrelevant argument in the internet and smartphone age. And judging from what is happening in recruiting in not only Virginia, but pretty much every other state across the country, that appears to be true.
And sure, we're not going to get a bunch of kids from Cali, but that isn't stopping those kids from going to Oregon, Boise, Utah, Arizona, or kids from Texas going to just about every program in the country, or kids from the Great Lakes making their way into SEC country, or stopping us from annually picking up a kid or 2 from Florida. In state means nothing in this recruiting landscape.
Ok, let's say proximity doesn't matter then. Then wouldn't you want your HC out closing on top recruits that are from different states that have had less exposure to VT and the brand? (the root of this debate)
I think largely proximity does matter to most recruits thought perhaps less and less to top recruits. I do agree that recruiting is more national than ever and will continue to be so in the future. But VT should never not try to lock down the homegrown talent to focus more on national talent. That's a losing strategy. We need to win more recruiting battles at home and branch out more and more out of state.
thank you and proximity matters to FB who he is trying to defend, so he's making no sense. I have 0 faith in us being able to lock down VA like Alabama is locked down for Alabama/auburn, but landing some of the top 5 every now and then would be wonderful especially at positions of need with immediate PT being able to be used as an incentive.
The only way this makes sense is if the staff continuity remains the same after FB retires. I am in full support of that. I would love to be the only program in the nation that doesn't have fullstop coaching overhauls from one HC to the other. Whether that happens though...
And even if it does happen, I just don't see the point in shelving a Hall of Fame Coach for worry that young players will be too dependent on him that they will view his retirement as an excuse to look elsewhere. So many kids comment on our staff continuity already. Can you imagine if FB was out there doing all this work and then retired and the staff didn't change. I think recruits would respect the hell out of that. I think everyone should respect the hell out of that. I know I would/will.
The man that stopped the coaching carousel.
I fully believe recruiting has been completely overhauled. I've defended that and coaches, like Lefty, for that. I've also defended the time it's taken to dig ourselves out of the hole that was dug, albeit by ourselves. But the "good enough" attitude never won anything. Just because we are recruiting better than ever doesn't mean there isn't more that can be done. And in this case, perhaps it's one thing that could be improved.
I'd like to take this opportunity to thank Joe for the "v" and ">" buttons. Seriously. I see a post at the top of the tracker with a lot of new comments and get all excited. Then I look over them and realize that I didn't really want to read any of them. Used to be a huge waste of time for me (maybe not other people who enjoy sitting in on others' arguments). Now I look at the post, see all yellow comments are minimized and I can move on. Boom. minutes, nay, hours of my life saved. So thank you, Mr. Joe Lanza.
Although I absolutely agree that there's no reason why we shouldn't be in the top 15 or top 20 every year in rankings and that we have let a lot of high quality recruits slip away, college recruiting has changed a lot. No longer are programs focusing on in-state kids as their top priority; we now have Florida State and Alabama using states across the South and the nation as their recruiting grounds. One of our biggest problems is not looking more out-of-state for top recruits, however we are doing much better at that now with Scot Loeffler (you can criticize his coaching but disregarding his recruiting is a mistake) and we have been able to lay a pipeline in Florida (Luther Maddy and Dwayne Lawson come to mind).
It still amazes me that their are people in the world who can golf without copious amounts of beer and a little golf cart polo...
Sounds like you and I should play golf sometime.
Sounds like everybody I ever played golf with.
Amen. I judge my round by how many of the balls from the sleeve I started with are left over.
Spoiler Alert: It's usually a negative number.
I played golf with my dad for the first time in at least 5 years last week. We only played 9 holes (completely sober too) and I'm sure I lost at least 5 balls. I'll probably go get some practice in at E&H's 8 hole course before I try playing on a for pay course again (E&H technically is a suggested fee, but I don't know anyone that pays it). I just need to remember to aim about 10-15 degrees left of what feels like is straight at the hole but is really about 10-15 degrees to the right of it, keep my head down through all of my swing so I don't hit the top of the ball or the ground behind it, turn my wrists over so I don't slice so horribly, and relearn how to chip and putt when I'm not playing on the Wii. I should be able to do all that in one or two afternoons shouldn't I?
You live near me! I didn't know E&H was suggested/free. Might have to go up there and play sometime. Where did you and your dad play?
That's what it says on their website:
"Lynch Links is available for use by students, faculty and staff at no cost, as well as the public for a suggested nominal fee."
My dad's a member at Greenway Creek between Chilhowie and Glade Spring. Now that he's retired he usually plays at least a couple times a week.
LMAO, I usually only play once a year at my company charity tournament and this is pretty similar to how I keep score, number of balls I started the round with vs. number I end up with. I am more than willing to head off into the trees and high grass to inflate my total... :)
Sounds like we need to tee it up. I think -1 might win it.
After shooting an 86, on 9 holes of par 3, I no longer keep score, and just remember the great shots.
Like hitting the ball off the tee through a moving golf cart without hitting anyone. Or bouncing it between two cars on the highway and having the second car stop to cuss the group on the tee behind us. Or hitting a tree and bouncing onto the cart path for a 50 yard roll. Or sinking a five iron on a green I'm not aiming for.
I also always end with more balls than I started with, no matter how often I het water.
I feel better about being 18 strokes behind my dad on 9 holes last week, but I also frequently took advantage of the Triple Bogey max we were using in our scoring.
Pulling a Happy Gilmore and diving into the water to find your ball?
I don't think you're playing golf, but whatever you're doing is awesome.
This made me fall outta my chair...hilarious!
If you play take a drink for every stroke, is it still golf?
I like your style. My biggest claim to fame was on the old front 9 on campus back in the early 2000s. I can't remember the hole but it ran parallel to Prices Fork. I'm a lefty and had a wicked slice off the tee and I cleared Prices Fork and watched the ball bounce around in what is now the Holiday Inn's parking lot without hitting any cars. I miss that course.
You did miss that course!
One time I drove off the tee right into a nearby tree which popped the ball straight up into the air and back in my direction....and I caught it.
I took that hole off, chugged a beer, and lit up a stogie in celebration of such a glorious feat of athletic excellence.
I like to think Beamer was staring at Lars while he drains the shot too.
Lets bring this down to real life! AFA is playing in a bowl game several years ago. The on field reporter asked one of their outstanding LBs if he felt any pressure to win. He said no, he had an advanced calculus final in 2 weeks.
I'm going golfing for only the second time in my life tomorrow morning. TKP community, any pointers?
If it helps at all I played baseball my entire life until college and joined a men's summer baseball league this year. Last time I went golfing my swing resembled Ken Griffey Jr. that's good right?
my advice: golf clubs, weather, birds chirping, golf ball, horoscope, Charles Barkley training video. These are all things you can blame every terrible shot for. Use them wisely.
Be the ball, Danny
These are all the right ways to do the golf:
Follow all of these and maybe, just maybe, you will be as good as me:
drink copious amounts of beer and have a good time. Pretty sure drinking while playing golf is the only time it's ever socially acceptable to drink and drive (a golf cart)
Ask the people you are playing with for advice - then you can blame them when they beat you. The harder you swing the farther from the fairway the ball will land. You need to find that magic zone where you drink enough to not over think your swing, but you can still stand straight enough to hit enough to hit the ball, and stay there for the entire round.
I can't stop laughing at this.
Urban Meyer's attempt:
Gotta love Frank Beamer if you love CFB.
Q: Didn't see the part about "pressure is playing Ohio State" part of the story. Where did that come from?
What do you think? Is it better to open with a quality opponent or a directional-type school? Is the focus and intensity you get preparing for a good opponent a net plus or minus if you take a loss?
Honestly, although I know that FB's comment is half a joke, the Ohio State game is probably the least pressure game on our schedule. We're expected to lose it, and as long as we put up a good fight we'll come out of it dignity intact.
Every other game on our schedule, though, should be a W. Those are the ones where the pressure should be on Frank to win. Not on Ohio State.
Playing to come out with your dignity intact is not how Frank Beamer approaches life.
But it is 100% how to approach playing golf.
I can't argue with this.
I disagree. Frank Beamer set the tone of the goal of the program - to win a national championship. A conference championship and a win over OSU (as well as the rest of our non-conference schedule) punches our ticket to the playoff. You can temper expectations, but I hope CFB feels pressure to achieve the goal that he, himself set.
I'm not so sure I agree with you there Stronk. Especially after the win last year in the shoe, I think Frank might have a lot more pressure on himself to win this game, even if the general population doesn't. We never want to hold ourselves to the standard of "put up a good fight" for a game, especially one that's in our own house. As even-keeled as CFB is, I would seriously doubt he would come into a game like this - with a chance to put an exclamation on his career - with little to no pressure to win.
I think Frank feels a lot of pressure.
edit: meant to be in response to Stronk