Three star LB Emmanuel Belmar from Suwanee, GA committed to the good guys today.
Blessed and Glad to say that I have verbally committed to play Football at Virginia Tech #Hokies #ACC pic.twitter.com/DwRBYXJ5CD— Emmanuel Belmar Jr (@EBJr_9) July 20, 2015
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Welcome aboard, Emmanuel!
recruited by-- Gray and Burden!! good to see Zohn get in on the action, obviously not his side of the ball but a younger position coach with energy definitely helps seal the deal.
Nice surprise!
She looks as though she's seen something...ENORMOUS?
I updated the original post with confirmation from Belmar's Twitter and his Hudl interview. Alex is working on an interview with him now.
Thanks Joe! Didn't have time to go looking for highlights at the time I posted.
Starting my Monday off right. Welcome to the team!
Not highly rated, but according to the guys at 247, Bud is a big fan of this kid. We could have a good one on our hands here.
Bud Happy = Fud Happy
I can see why Coach Foster likes him. He has a big frame. He plays down hill (critical for VT linebackers) and has good bend back to the interior. He plays his responsibility (see his read on the reverse play.) He looks pretty good dropping back into coverage. This is a guy that Coach Foster can work with.
He has some fundamentals that he will need to work on. He plays with a bit of a high pad level. He has a tendency to take a false step every now and then (see the spin to adjust to a screen pass as the most glaring example.) However, he is a kid who "fits" the system and could play both backer or mike.
Always a big fan of the linebacker recruits. They seem to be what make's Bud's defenses work. When they are great, the D is great. When they are okay, the defense is merely okay.
Its funny we say the defense is OK and its still a top 25 defense haha
Imagine if our offense was 'OK' as well.....
(he thinks optimistically)
Keith Simms was just on campus on a swing through the South and Tavante Beckett is supposed to come back this upcoming weekend. May be/hopefully done at linebacker by the end of the week.
Glad to see we are picking up bigger kids to play backer. In years past he would be a DE recruit. 6'2 220 lbs and his upper body looks small. Get some Gentrification on him and hopefully he can play the backer position with the same speed at 230 - 240 lbs.
Edit:
NVM he already weighs 230:
"He loves to work out and already weighs in at 230. We really want to try and keep him around that weight and maybe focus on leaning him up some more. He knows he can be a kid that plays fast at a lean 235 to 240 pounds."
Yes, I'm enjoying the thought of a LB core that includes talented, quick big bodies playing behind a DL that is lead by Tim Settle.... Good luck running against that.
Now imagine if that DL also included Rashan Gary...
On the outside looking in there...
I'm just impressed we even got him to visit
Hopefully Eric Whitehead can make it in, in January. Put him beside Settle on running downs. Then put in a NASCAR package on obvious passing downs. It would be hard to handle.
Also need to remember we have Steve Sobczak to fill in as a run stuffer too.
cough Ricky Walker cough
Of course Ricky I was sort of just saying people that haven't played a down yet. Ricky played quite a bit for us last year. Steve redshirted and Whitehead hopefully can get Algebra II done between now and January. I am just wishful thinking at the moment that we can actually get people to play that are athletic and bigger.
if Whitehead is going to juco he won't be here in January.
I know that is the concensus, but if you can keep Adonis Williamson on board you have a pretty good chance at Eric Whitehead coming back too.
What he is saying is if they go to JUCO directly out of high school they will not be able to transfer into Tech in January. It is not that they won't want to or we don't want them, it is not allowed. I believe they will have to stay for at least 2 years in JUCO according to the rule.
Thank you. Not even taking into account our lack of luck getting JUCO players accepted. (seems to be no problem for basketball though)
You're probably correct in this particular circumstance, but IIRC the JUCO transfer rule is more complex than that. And the rules are different for someone who has attended a 4 yr institution before attending JUCO.
I may not have the details exactly correct, but IIRC in order to be scholarship eligible immediately upon transfer, academic qualifiers only need to attend 1 semester of JUCO.
Non-academic qualifiers (which I'm assuming is the case here) need to obtain their associates degree, attend at least 3 semesters and meet some other requirements (which are likely met if they get their degree) in order to be scholarship eligible upon transfer.
Per ACC rules we can take 1 non-qualifier JUCO graduate per season. That means in 2 years we can take Adonis Williamson as a true Junior (3 years to play 2). We cannot take both Williams and Whitehead in the same year.
That is of course assuming he graduates from his JUCO with an Associates Degree and meets VT admissions requirements.
Also, from the H.S. coach's comments it sounded like Williamson was still fully on board the VT train, and JUCO was basically described as just a little delay. The HS coach comments about Whitehead were not so optimistic, in two ways 1) he said Whitehead needed to mature (presumably he's struggled a lot with prioritizing academics) to be successful and 2) he did not mention VT as a future destination when talking about Whitehead.
Alriiiight!!! Keep the d strong. Daggon it i cant wait for the start of the season!
Alriiiight!!! Keep the d strong. Daggon it i cant wait for the start of the season!
My bad. On vacation and day drinking...
Drink one for the rest of us!!
Make mine a double, if you please.
Make mine a double as well. Pound that liver like never before!
According to 247Sports he picked us over Syracuse and LOLUVA [love it] and he had Virginia Tech listed as his favorite throughout his recruitment [love it]. Emmanuel Belmar, you are a smart man.
This gif gets old and overused
What I also like is the marketing aspect of it. Belmar is clearly and obviously an appropriate and 100% marketable name for an LB. F-k yea!
Exciting and welcome.
Looking behind Moto, the Mike position has some big fellows on deck: Carson, Drew Burns, now Belmar. It looks like Foster is getting some bigger LB's.
Is anyone concerned at this point in the recruiting process for the Class of 2016 that we have the #50 ranked recruiting class per Rivals?
I mean, I have faith that we'll end up higher than that, but it just seems like we're off to a 'slower' start than normal.
there's some uncertainty about what will happen this year regarding the program. Yeah everyone expects Beamer to be back for the 16 season but if not that's a whole different can or worms. Is it a complete gutting of the program, does Bud take over, ect ect..
mediocre last 3 years, and legitimate uncertainty of program will do that to recruiting
1. It was well known, and I even said as much, that this class was going to be underwhelming. The number of guys we can take is relatively low and we weren't set up well with many elite in-state recruits this year. Usually you can look at a list of VA prospects in January and point out all the VT leans only to be disappointed in December. That wasn't the case this year- there simply weren't all that many early VT leans.
2. For the most part, we're still waiting on the guys with whom we have/had a legitimate shot to make their decision. I think there are still 20 or so guys who haven't eliminated us that still have yet to decide and we're on a lot of top 3s and top 6s and stuff. In fact, I made a list of guys who I though we might get back in February and we've only "lost" 3 of them (Wayne Davis, Felder, and Ellison Jordan). Most of them haven't decided yet. Plus, this weekend is supposed to be a big recruiting weekend for us.
3. Rivals in particular does not like our class. Whereas other sites has guys like Reggie Floyd, Eric Kumah, Troy Pride Jr., Samuel Denmark, and Joshua Jackson as 4* players, rivals has none of them as 4*. Also, the teams ahead of us with 15+ commits are pretty close to done already other than waiting on a couple of elite recruits. It's mostly a numbers thing at this point.
I still think the class will be underwhelming, though I don't know that we'll be in dire straits or anything, but I would hold off panicking until August 1st at least.
I'd agree with this. We won't be able to fairly assess this class on ranking alone (I'm thinking we'll finish in the 30-35 range, FWIW) primarily from a numbers perspective - we'll probably take around 18 guys. We'll be able to call this class a success if we meet all our needs - OL, WR, DE, DB. We're looking pretty good at DB and WR. DE we have a couple guys that should be pretty solid looking our way and if we land 2 of them, we'll be set. OL is what will really make or break this class. We've got a legit shot at 2-3 more really solid guys, but it's far from a sure thing. one more DB, 2 more WRs, 2 DEs, 3 OL - all quality players - and this class is a success.
O linemen in that class worry me, one because there is not a lot of information out there about O lineman compared to skill players so I don't know how to read our offers very well and two it seems like several teams around VT are getting some solid commitments at O lineman.
OL recruiting is such a cluster, it's nearly impossible to determine whether a guy's going to be any good or not until he's a couple years into college anyways. The best we can hope for is that Searels gets his top guys. If that happens, we're probably doing alright.
As usually happens, I suspect there are at least 2-3 guys who aren't even on the radar right now or have been written off that will end up committing to VT.
Agree- still a lot of time left in the class to get some solid commits from guys not even on the radar now.
Landon on campus today. Heard he was impressed with academics.
Huge weekend coming up.
This times a ton!
He also confirmed that Beamers pending retirement is the biggest setback to our recruiting right now
Is Nick Saban's pending retirement holding Alabama back? Seriously, he's 5 years and 2 weeks younger than Frank. We've been hearing "Frank is too old and will retire soon" for longer than 5 years now, and yet somehow it sticks with us and not other.
I hate this bullshit argument, and really wish our Athletic Department would do something to officially shut it up.
Are you really comparing saban and beamer? Saban hasn't had any recent surgeries and had his energy level questioned for years. He also still has his program in the national title hunt every year, which is clearly not the case for us.
It's all in the looks. If someone asked me in high school how old those two are I wouldn't know, but I would have guessed the age gap of at least 10 years. Maybe Beamer should dye his hair...no one will know...
Or make a deal with the devil like Saban
I think we can get all the recruiticorns if Beamer just makes a few small changes:
Dude, 5 heads turned with the amount of snot that just came out of my nose.
in 2009, 2010, and 2011 we very much were in the National Title hunt with Top 10 rankings, Conference titles, and BCS At Large bids. And yet the "when is Frank retiring" was a cloud hanging around the program even then.
Frank is 17 years younger than JoePa was when he was ran out of Penn St. He's 12 years younger than Bobby Bowden was when he was ran out of Florida St. Shit, both of those guys won National Titles at an older age than Beamer is right now.
I'm tired of this bullshit.
You're right. No one said a word about them retiring. Beamer is being singled out
Age has nothing to do with it. It's results.. Look at Bowden's last 5 years and look at Beamers, they're eerily similar..
Bowden--> 7-6, 7-6, 9-4, 7-6
Beamer--> 11-3, 7-6, 8-5, 7-7,
key difference was FSU had Jimbo in waiting/groomed to succeed. He went 10-4 in his 1st year.. but lost to VT in ACC game
VT doesn't have anyone in waiting, a new AD and tons of returning talent. a 10 win year and this goes hush, a 6-7 win year and more people pile on.
No point in bitching about it.. Beamer will coach this year and like its been reported Whit and Beamer have talked about the future so we should leave it at that.
Good points.
I'd have to say that Bud Foster is someone "in waiting"...
I couldn't agree more. I HATE hearing that shit. Joe Paterno was freakin
85 when he was fired and I don't recall anyone saying Penn State's recruiting
was suffering because of it.
PSU recruiting rankings, aside from one year (2006) their recruiting was awful down JoePa's final stretch.
2008: 43
2007: 24
2006: 6
2005: 25
2004: 29
2003: 93
And you assume that was because he was old?
No I assume that because he was in a similar situation that VT is in. A coach who people said was getting up in age with a program in decline.
Be honest with yourself and try to think back to the last time Coach Beamer made a recruiting trip that wasn't on campus. It's been a while.
I agree with you on the Beamer Recruiting comment and given you the upvote, however you have broken a Cardinal rule.You should not talk about Beamer or Foster's lack of recruiting here on TKP.
Foster has put forth much more effort in recent years. I definitely think that has to do with the possibility of getting a HC'ing gig.
I wasn't aware you were following Beamer when he travels.
pretty easy to follow over the last year.
Yea because he wasn't healthy, really.
and that's part of what's being used against him, which is what this discussion is about just in case you missed it...
He had surgery, got better and now is doing fine time to move on. As for it being used against him what a joke, no coach can say they will be at any school in 5 years.
Not siding with anyone here but just because you think it's a joke doesn't mean it's not happening.
So if nick saban and urban meyer tell X recruit that FB isn't going to be there in 5 years your argument would be well neither will they? Taking off your O&M glasses, if you are wearing them, which of the 3 coaches in question will be gone first in your opinion?
Well first are you really using anOSU and Bama and those two coaches. I mean come on let's set a level playing field. Use coaches at schools of the level as VT and then ask that question.
Who do you want to use? Bill Snyder at KState? Spurrier? You can't do that. Our program was just a tier below Alabama and Ohio State a few years ago. The thing that changed that was recruiting philosophy. Now we are where we're at. An up and coming team that doesn't even know if their head coaches health will let him be here the next year or not.
I personally will be surprised if Bud gets the Head Coach when Beamer leaves but I definitely think he will be here for the next head coach. I know in the state of Virginia you can't name a successor but at the very least you could give the defensive staff long term contracts. While we're at it can we give Torian another raise and title like DB Coach and Associate Defensive Coordinator. If really hate to lose him.
VT doesn't have the name brand or money of either of those schools, the coach doesn't have the flashy resume as either of those coaches either. He doesn't court the media attention and doesn't have the love him or hate him attention that they get. VT is like MSU or UGA.
However a couple of years ago we were about a tier below. These kids that we are recruiting today are used to seeing VT in the top 20 at the beginning, middle and end of season. We are a great brand name, and up to about 7 years ago we acted like it. Look what Oregon has done with their image. 10 years ago we were Oregon, with Uniform Combinations and being the cool team to like. We had the Vick brothers, Bryan Randall, Tyrod Taylor. Michael Vick showed the world that a kid from the 757 with speed and a arm could be in the Heisman voting. We were one of the first teams to use a Duel-Threat QB the way he should have been used. However unlike Oregon we didn't embrace it and run with it. We went conservative and our hype died. Now we are a conservative team with a old coach that isn't in the best health.
Exactly like Oregon except for the millions of dollars from just one donor.
Actually, believe it or not with our Football Alums we could do very well for ourselves. Problem is Weaver didn't push that. Whit will start and you will see a uptick in that. Also with that logic you could say that Maryland is a tier above us since the Under Armour creators are from there.
Also the way ESPN was pushing us back then, if we would have embraced what they were trying to do for us and ran with it, you would most likely see that display case filled by now.
VERY few football alums give back to their alma mater. It's a rarity across the board since most already feel they've given enough, what with helping their school make millions while they played. This is not Weaver's fault. This is something that has been looked at across the board as to why you don't see high profile athletes giving back to their schools.
Well their accountants should tell them to. Tax deductible donations are the shit. I understand that Weaver thought it was taboo to ask football alums, however Whit did say in one of his first interviews that is something that he will be doing. There is no harm in asking.
You could actually go back about 3 years and you've done the same amount of in home as Beams.
Beamer needs to be out on the road more in order for Tech to have better success on the recruiting trail. With that said, there are only certain windows on the recruiting calendar when he can do so. This year was an outlier with his health. How aggressive he is on the road during the lead up to national signing day 2016 will indicate to me how much emphasis he is putting towards recruiting.
I do remember him doing an in-home with McLaughlin in 2013 that wrapped him up for Tech.
As much as it's unfair, his health can't be an excuse again either. College football coach is a year-round, 24-hour-a-day job. Frank has to put in the effort during the offseason, and if his health becomes an issue he has to prioritize that for his own sake and Tech's benefit.
100% agree.
JoePa wasn't going off campus to recruit due to his health and his status was used against him in recruiting. IIRC the last recruit JoePa visited was Terrelle Pryor.
The speculation for Beamer's retirement has never been as strong as it is now, especially since for the first time the retirement might not be his decision to make. Spurrier is getting the same treatment. It isn't bullshit
Saban is not a good example. Besides the performance advantages Saban has over Beamer, he's 5 years younger....which is huge. 5 years, like the time a kid would be in school if he redshirts. That's why you give coaches 5 year extensions.
Spurrier is a much better comp. He doesn't have the performance advantage at USC that Saban has at Bama. He once was a great coach, now he's a good coach. And he's older than Beamer and he recruits better. That's the comp.
Beamer's problem isn't his age, per se. It's that his age/health creates instability. London is having a hard time recruiting because his program is unstable. "Are you going to be there when my boy graduates?" That's a tough question for Beamer or London to answer affirmatively right now.
That's a stupid question for any coach. Let's look at the last 5 years in ACC what coach was here 5 years ago?
Stupid question or not, it's the question every family asks. It's clearly not all in the coaches control.
By probability, Beamer/Spurrier may not be at their school any longer than Larry Fedora or Dave Doerren. But it's the perception. "If I get you to commit, I will win more games and be there for five more years" says Larry Fedora. "If my health is good, I'll be there five more years" says Beamer. It's different. There is at least the perception that Fedora controls his situation whereas Beamer doesn't. Thus, a greater sense of instability.
You give coaches 5 year extensions because it ensures all the kids in the upcoming recruiting class (or classes, depending on how far in advance the extension is signed) that the coach will be there throughout their time with the school, even with a redshirt year.
Yeah, that's what I said. Did I phrase that so it wasn't clear?
The 5 year window is the key window. So Saban being 5 years younger than Beamer puts him in a completely different tier. I get your point, Saban isn't young by any means and those questions will start to come up. But he's not facing the same type of age-based scrutiny as Beamer or Spurrier.... yet.
soon as saban has a team that is near .500 the questions will pop up. Until then age won't be used against him.
I wonder how Spurrier is doing this recruiting season. A year ago, he was doing fine but that was coming off of three straight 11-2 seasons. Now he's a 70 year old recruiting off a 7-6 season. I only know one USC fan and he's intolerable, so I can't say I know how they are doing.
Their class had a big meltdown at the end of last year. They had a bunch of decommits (thanks for Clark) and it always tied back to comments about his retirement.
so...a high profile lineman de-commited because USCe was coming off a bad season and had a coach who was almost 70 years old only to commit to a Virginia Tech program that was coming off three bad seasons and had a coach that was almost 70 years old.
Age matters! Age doesn't matter! Age matters!
Age is a component. Health is a component. Winning is a component. In the case of Clark, being closer to home was probably a big component. It's like in the old NCAA video game, you could emphasize what you want for recruiting. Coaching, geography, winning, coke/girls, academics, uniforms. For Clark, it was geography. For Miami recruits, it's coke/girls.
He was ONE of those decommits. As a whole for the group it was pretty clear
Perfect segue into an SB Nation article that came out today. The relevant quote from Spurrier that seems to be the source of his problems:
The fact that he "admits" he won't be around for a new recruit's entire college career does seem to be negatively affecting his recruiting.
When Beamer was Saban's age, those questions already existed and were already hovering around the program. What is happening now is nothing new, its just the same rehashed bullshit that goes on every year, and the main difference between now and what was going on in 2010 is that we had a scrambling QB leading the way that did just enough on offense behind a terrible Offensive Line to put enough points on the board to allow the defense to keep winning. Once O'Cain's coaching got exposed with Logan's struggles, the issues with the awful coaching by Newsome for the Offensive Line became damning, and throw in an uncharacteristically mediocre defense, and things snowballed a bit.
But here's the thing. We're recruiting better now than we were in the years that led to those teams. We have more energy and excitement with this program than I can recall at any point in the past 10 years. Our depth chart looks to have more talent spread throughout both sides of the ball than we've had since the early to mid 2000s. If Frank is on retirement's doorstep, it sure as hell ain't showing in the actions of the program over the last couple years. In fact, if anything, I'd argue the program is showing the signs of a rejuvenated coach that is leading a program head on into a changing environment putting together the pieces for yet another run at the conference. Definitely not the energy of a coaching staff preparing to send out its leader of nearly 30 years.
I'd say the recent hires by beamer is whats saving the recruiting issue a lot as well. Moorhead Grimes (both gone) Loeffler Searels and Zohn added to the already good Gray and Foster was a huge huge get for us... had we not made those moves this program would be 100% different.
Frank saw a need for a change and he went out and got some top notch coaches. We're already seeing these hires pay off, some more than others but its definitely on the up&up.
And I would say the fact that these changes were actually made shows Beamer isn't ready to just hang em up anytime soon and is fully invested in making sure this works. Guys who are coasting to retirement don't make overwhelming changes 2 years before it happens. You don't undertake a complete rebuild when you're setting a timeframe on the end of your employment. Frank made the call to overhaul the offense, and he's going to see it through.
Maybe it was inferred elsewhere in this thread that Beamer was coasting into retirement and mailing it in. That's not my perception. Like most people at the end of their careers, I sense Beamer is fighting it tooth and nail. So, of course better recruiting coaches were hired. He needs to offset any negative perception his age/health brings to the table.
I agree that there is optimism to be had on the current state of the players in the system. The talent level is improved, we have about 80% good coaches, we have good depth. Recruiting has done pretty well the last few years, hopefully due to our commitment to hire better recruiters (like AMo).
The problem is what this years recruiting will be like since it is the first season post mysterious throat surgery that has had a visual impact on the HC himself. That's a challenge. The questions are stronger now than ever.
And I'm not sure what a coaching staff looks like that is preparing to send out its leader. This isn't a funeral. These guys need to win so they are marketable commodities. The coaching staff isn't going to be posting the resumes to Monster (does that still exist? dating myself).
agree.. there always will be questions and the only thing that will answer that is the on field product.
If we win 8-10 games and the Coastal then great, it puts more focus on how Beamer was able to overcome a tough off season get the coaches ready and still put a great team on the field.
If we win 6-8 games so called health issues and we don't recruit well enough issues will continue to be heard.
and based on last year we fell into the 2nd option for this off season.
Actually you are both wrong. The 5 year extension was something Coaches started demanding to allow for rebuilding time, not what the schools gave them. For a long time, and I am sure now as well, most schools would prefer that extensions were still shorter.
How about Bill Snyder as a comparison rather than Spurrier or Saban?
Does KSU still focus on JUCOs? That would fundamentally change the discussion since those kids have a 1 or 2 year window.
I think so, but I'm sure how much that has to do with still being able to coach and/or recruit at 70.
You still have to convince those JUCO (and HS) kids to come to K St and you still have to motivate and coach them up and most importantly you still have to oversee and manage an organization with a lot of moving parts in a high visibility, high emotion atmosphere.
Beamer can answer this in part by pointing out some of the steps that have already been taken to ensure a smooth transition like his post coaching job within the athletic department ("Even if I'm not there as his coach, I'll still be in the Athletic department looking out for his best interests."), and the unique situation that VT will be in compared to many other schools, where he will likely have a say in who his replacement is.
That's a tough question for almost every coach to answer - especially when 40% probably won't be at their current school in 5 years.
For better or worse, I think Frank Beamer will have minimal input into the decision of who will replace him.
What's going to propel Virginia Tech to success is a fan base that demands it. Virginia Tech has that, regardless of how long Beamer stays.
VT has the facilities, the interest, and the fan base that is hungry for improvement. Keep the hope alive, and it's just a matter of time.
Beamer has rebuilt the program, deserves the chance to see the rebuild through, and go out the way he wants.
I get both sides of the recruiting issue. Beamer's so called health is an easy thing to pick on.. and will continue to be until he retires/ isn't the coach at VT
Kids want to play, win & get rings, while have the opportunity to go to NFL. VT can provide that for sure, but lately we've been in a funk. It happens to every program..
Look at Georgia no way they shouldn't have won their east conference. Are people calling for Mark Richt's head absolutely and its getting worse and worse every year.
Nah, can't hire Mark Richt... he's 55, so he's way too close to retirement
leg my man!
UGA should almost never lose the East when UF has a down year. What college football disadvantage do they have? None.
If I were a UGA fan, I'm not sure I'd call for Richt to be fired, but as a VT fan, I wouldn't be ecstatic about him coming to VT either.
I find the argument interesting that the current recruiting malaise isn't based on Beamer's age. Okay, then why?
1. Recruiting isn't slipping. Okay, fine. I guess you can believe that if you want.
2. VT has a staff of bad recruiters. Maybe true, but we have consciously been trying to improve that. So we kinda failed.
3. VT's on field performance is the most significant factor. Very likely, but you need better players to fix that. And let's say we have a great 2015, that likely would have a minimal improvement on the next recruiting class. So that then puts that "win equity" into the 2017 class, with Beamer another year older.
So, we've been shit for three years, we don't have the best recruiting staff and our coach is going to turn 69 this year. Not much you can do about that but grit your teeth and bear it.
There is a growing contingent of malcontented fans who think Frank Beamer is standing in the way of VT's rise to perennial top 10 and annual National Championship contention. While there is only one way we'll find out whether they are right or wrong, I have a funny feeling that they'll be rudely awakened when he's gone and they have to come up with something else to blame for keeping us out. I suspect a fair amount of the speculation originates with those fans. They have every right to feel that way, I think they are wrong.
The biggest thing that has held us back is our general acceptance of piss poor offensive units over the past 15 years due to the fact we had a defense that stifled opponents to wins. Allowing that to continue for as long as it did... Yeah, I'll blame Beamer for that one. But his ability to actually coach this program and make it a contender, that is not something you can argue. He's really, really good at that.
Nailed It!! We can't expect to get high 4* and 5* wr's te's rb's skill players because our offense is poor and has been mentioned as boring/not explosive enough.
Yeah we get an occasional top WR or RB but for every top WR/RB/ATH you get there will be 2 Joel Caleb's. However when you get 3-4 top WR/RB a recruiting class the miss of that 1 top WR/RB that didn't work out goes unnoticed because other 4-5* players worked and slotted into his position.
Since 2006 (last 10 recruiting classes) we have got 19 offensive 4* and 5* and 13 defensive 4* and 5*. Since 2011, 10 offensive and 9 defensive. Obviously it varies by service but saying we don't get offensive recruits because our offense is bad is wrong
Our offenses were bad because we had a clueless moron coaching our offensive line. This caused us to have to rely on the run far more than any team reasonably should, and even then, we needed the improvisational abilities of a QB to bail us out time and time again. Passing Game? hah, what passing game? We had OLs that could barely hold a block for a 1 count before the QB had to scramble to not get his ass lit up in the backfield on most plays. Our receiving talent was largely wasted when they were here. Even the guys who went on to have NFL careers didn't have the most impressive offensive stats here in Blacksburg.
If you were a highly touted offensive recruit, why on Earth would you have wanted to come into the cluster that was that offensive situation? For good reason, they stayed away. And its impressively telling that immediately after the coaching change was made we brought in one of the best offensive hauls across the board that we've seen at Tech in the past 15 years. Kids will come to play for Frank. They won't come to play in a situation where they're set up to be ineffective at best. Thankfully, we've moved on, and we're much better for it now.
I literally just showed you numbers that say otherwise
Your numbers also neglect to show the big fat 0 we had declare to Tech in 2010 and 2011.
So those two years are the basis of your "15 years of shitty offense" argument?
More like the culmination
Just a fantastic job of ignoring the facts
Since 2011 we have had the following 4* offensive kids commit JC, Trey, Drew Harris, Joel Caleb, Marshawn and McClease. That's 6 so called top players in 4 years that have come to VT.. some schools pull in 6 a recruiting class.
Out of those 6 I see 2 players that have done something here at VT. Marshawn is N/A due to ACL tear.
1 didn't even make it in, Joel has been all over the place and McClease has yet to be seen.
Our 2* and 3* kids are the ones making the plays.
McClease just enrolled on the 5th. Not so sure how relevant his inclusion is to this discussion.
Additionally, they are all, or were once considered to be, RBs.
McClease was a 4* and I included this years class just to show we really don't do well with getting top offensive talent based on * rankings.
We kill it with 2-3* talent that is over looked due to great coaching.. imagine what that coaching would do with 5* talent.. Watch A&M this year to see how Moorehead does, that will be interesting for sure.
mcclease was a 3 star on all the major sites but one and it was a low 4 star there. McKenzie and marshawn were both 4 stars on most.
gracias amigo..
also for the part about killing it with 2-3 * talent who are the most successful RBs at VT over the last 10-15 years? Kevin Jones, Lee Suggs, David Wilson and Ryan Williams? 3 of the 4 were considered elite (top 50ish) athletes in the country. Not sure if the sites were around for lee suggs, but kevin jones was considered the #1 prospect in the country by some services.
edit: On suggs from hokiesports, " Ranked the No. 4 player in the state and the No. 19 running back in the nation by SuperPrep" which would most likely be a 4 star.
Even the mighty OSU with all their talent, facility, money etc had a losing season recently when their head man resigned and they had to put a temp in place. Continuity in leadership is very important to success. We will miss CFB. I really want to see what Bud can do at the helm. I would double my donation for him to get a shot.
I don't think we'd be a perennial top 10 or in annual contention for a natty even with saban as a coach. I do think with a younger more personable coach who places an emphasis on recruiting and holding his staff accountable for recruiting that we would bring in better talent, which in theory should lead to more wins.
That theory is what Miami and UVA believe will work as well. So about that theory...
Miami and uva have seen upticks in recruiting when they had coaching changes, so it's not much of a theory. You still need a coach to be able to develop the talent, which is where they lacked.
Upticks in recruiting but nothing on the field. Someone who is young and personable and good at getting people to buy in to what they are selling does not make a good football coach. There are far more facets to the game than recruiting. The best players under a horrible coach will not make a good team. But the biggest complaint right now is recruiting because the results from developing players and good coaching have already been seen and are determined to not be enough for many. So people think that recruiting may help, and it very well may, but you need a coach who has a history of overachieving, otherwise you're looked at as a failure who is incapable of producing when talent is in their hands.
Pretty sure I said you need both. It was clearly stated. Right now do we have either? We don't have great recruiting and definitely are not in an uptick for recruiting as this will be our worst class since the 2010/2011 disasters and we're barely .500 against lackluster competition.
Your initial statement was that a young, personable coach who emphasizes recruiting would bring in more talent, in theory, produce more wins. So despite going after the fact and stating that you need both, you did not in fact clearly state it. And yes, we do still have a good solid coach who can develop talent. Our history of doing so isn't questionable, regardless of the record. Especially considering the fact that our record last year said more about what could have been than what was given the sheer number of games decided by 1 possession.
Was stated before you went off on your rant:
You still need a coach to be able to develop the talent, which is where they lacked.
I vote PJ Fleck or you know Mike Tomlin for shits and giggles.
i could see PJ Fleck for sure.. granted he is around in 2 years. He has started to pick up steam and another decent year and he could be gone before we have a chance.
Tomlin just signed an extension but I would love for him to come here. Bud and Tomlin would be scary together.
Those are my absolute top 2. Tomlin will be on the hot seat again in a year or so. For some reason the Steelers fans hate him. Talk about a personable coach that would absolutely tear it up in recruiting.
PJ Fleck we just need him to last one more year at Western Michigan and then we can go in and scoop him up. He fits what we used to try to do with Run the ball down your throat then play-action over the top. I would be ecstatic at either of these hires.
Bro you need to take these off.
Also we will always have a good defense. No matter who our next head coach is Bud will be here. He is here for the long haul, if he doesn't get the HC job he will have input as to who the HC will be. Right behind him is Torian Gray we are DBU we know how to coach defense. So as long as our defense stays the same our offense can't get any worse, see this image:
So as long as we have a defense if we get some more highly rated offensive players we will score more points, more points equals more wins.
ya know, when Frank is dead and gone, I'm sure we'll all read his biography and find out that ending a game 0-0 was on his bucket list the whole time...
I wish he could have done it against someone other than Wake Forest.
hard to get those legs without the shades. Reading some stuff on here you would think we were still back in the late 2000s in terms of wins-losses.
I know, instead of Team Pie or Cake we need to be asking each person what year it is currently. That way we can know what camp the person we are talking to is in, when an internet argument erupts.
No no the way to get legs is base comments on reaction gifs and photoshopped pictures
I'm trying. I have tons of GIF's.
That was your first mistake. TKP only uses the same 4 or 5
How's that for a new gif for you.
shall we unload the emma watson gifs or just wait???
Wait, we are putting new ones up I have tons hold on let me go to my folder.
Found one of our offense:
Whenever I see this gif, I wonder why the other player thought that the push at the end was necessary.
We've finally reached that point in the offseason when people will legitimately complain about people being optimistic about the future of VT football.
Do you watch college football and coaching hiring? Most of the staff will be gone when a new HC comes in unless he has a relationship with the coach he keeps.
because usually you don't have one coach that is so much better than the other. Not many HCs are going to find/want a better DC than Bud Foster.
Because you know what a new HC wants a coordinator more popular than him who everyone from players to alumni to the admin will look to. It's like the 2nd QB being more popular. Talk about OM glasses.
If BF was more popular he would be the next HC. I don't think you have O&M glasses I think you had O&M retina implants at this point.
Bwahahaha, they are out in full force today. All I can do is laugh at naive comments. This is the epitome of what people think will happen when Beams leaves. I promise you Foster isn't going anywhere.
Agreed. And again, as has been pointed out many times, when Beamer retires he is not getting put out to pasture. He has a worked in transition period for him to manage football as a special adviser for the following 6 or 8 years. i forget. This IS the succession plan. Weaver & Beamer assured that VT would not be taken off the rails by any new blood. Simple.
As for the WF gif. I honestly don't see why everyone calls this out. Imagine you are the coach, your team just played one of the poorest collective performances you have ever seen, and on the last play that could have sent you home the ball goes wide sending it to OT. Now you have 2 choices. 1) Be super upset and pissed, yell and scream and whatever to try to push your team to perform better ... or 2) You show energy, motivation, excitement at the chance to win to try to capture some spirit and drive your players to win. Either is an acceptable option but I understand why Beamer reacted this way, because I know damn sure that every coach was yelling all game and it clearly wasn't working. It's just a damn shame that everyone slings it around derogatorily. Apologies to VT_StarScream as I don't mean to be putting him on blast. Just something I think of every time I see someone use it.
Fernley OT: I just saw a news report about Chinese companies hiring white Westerns to appear at events because it gives them a leg up, even hiring people to play doctors and such. Have you seen this over there?
Been happening for at least 14 years ever since I have been here. I have also been paid many times for being western for attending various meetings, events, etc. In my case it was more the underlings wanting to give their boss some extra face by arranging some westerners in the industry to be at the meeting. The most I ever got was about 2,000 USD but usually it is MUCH less. But I know people have been paid for crazy things just because they are western.
Nowadays there are a flood of western models in China and they are used for all manner of publicity stunts, for example this one that literally just happened and ended in some police action:
http://shanghaiist.com/2015/07/23/police_in_beijing_caught_300_foreig.php
Why do I get the feeling that the officer looking at the camera on the left is about to order the photographer's arrest?
I think your 2nd choice is part of the reason that .gif gets used. That is beamer's excitement level at about 100% which is why people think he is so low energy and on his way out because he doesn't have much left to give.
Using it to express his excitement level is something I have never seen. I have only ever seen it as a dig towards Beamer being complacent about mediocrity or in this case even less than that.
People think that WF pic is funny because, taken out of the contest the fernley just provided, it looks like he is ecstatic that no one managed to score. It is a short-hand joke about him having a conservative, defense first mindset. It has nothing to do with people thinking that he has so little energy left to give.
Celebrating a missed FG is always unsettling for me. You didn't do anything. A dude just missed it.
Well, I think Beamer is more celebrating having a chance to win the game rather than someone missing the kick.
Also, I don't agree with what you are saying. Missed field goals have been celebrated so many times in the history of football at every level. I've personally been in the position where a game would be decided on the last FG try, and was missed. The game ended in a tie 21 - 21. We celebrated like crazy.
Yeah... people are acting like this is the only time a missed FG has ever been celebrated
No, its no problem I don't mind having discussions. I didn't post that to show Beamer in a negative light. Just looking back and remembering how bad our Offense really was/is. The point of the comment in its rawest form is that our defense will always be great. No Beamer enthusiast should ignore this. But if we got a new HC, that allowed us to keep the top in state talent and bring in a couple more 4 *'s per recruiting cycle then one of those players may put the team on his back at some point and would have scored a touchdown at Wake Forest no matter how inept our offense was that day.
totally agree
I think I get your point:
Vick, Michael
Taylor, Tyrod
etc.
In Miami and and Fl the inmates run the asylum. The talent is there. The discipline, teaching, and chemistry is not.
Welp, not going to open up this thread again. Seen it all already.
Right
Wait so what do we know about Emmanuel Belmar? Whatever it is, welcome, Emmanuel, glad to have you! Welcome to Hokietown, population, YOU!
I'm loving the collapse thread feature! Even on my phone I can quickly ascertain if the new comments are anything I want to read!
So, to recap:
1. Welcome to Hokie Nation, Emmanuel!
2.
3. I'm glad I was on vacation.
I completely forgot that this thread was about Belmar while reading through the new comments. Holy moly yall