#Hokies DC Bud Foster said coaching staff will explore fining players money from cost-of-attendance funds as future disciplinary measure.— Norm Wood (@normwood) August 26, 2015
Sorry if this has already come up, but I just saw this tweet on Reddit. Anybody know more about this?
Edit:
I want to apologize to TKP for posting this without digging deeper into the facts. I was probably definitely over-zealous to get this info to TKP. TKP is the #marinade for all of my Hokie news, so just imagine my nervousness when I stumbled on something that had not already been posted here. Sorry folks. I changed the title to something less "click-bait-y. " Next time I'll leave the reporting to the professionals.
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Comments
It has been damage control tonight by VT Athletics. Whit has already said he knew nothing of it and it will be stopped.
It wasn't controled fast enough (http://deadspin.com/asshole-college-football-coach-comes-up-with-new-way...), and not all of the media has received the statement from Babcock.
They have updated the article with the Whit quote now, so that's nice. Hoping this is a flash-in-the-pan story that's gone before the next preseason NFL injury
That article is pure trash.
So Deadspin basically?
That kind of stuff makes me sad. Completely disregarding that it's tech related, it's click-bait designed to start a controversy where none existed...sometimes I hate the internet
There's so much shit out there just like this too
Fuck the Gawker network. This was the same site that had the first person view of today's shooting their main header for hours after the shooter posted it.
They are click bait trash. Fuck that site
I'd say fuck the reporter who started this line of questioning... hopefully not TKP. If we haven't treated the players properly I'd like to think you could take the line of inquiry non-public.
Time to revoke a press credential or two.
You don't really understand the role of media, do you?
He definitely says "boom" right before he starts his ejection shuffle.
Hey Andy: I agree with you in this specific instance, but in general, I'd say that the media doesn't understand the role of Media either.
Journalistic integrity gets pushed deeper to the back of the bus in deference to sensationalism at the expense of objectivity, or worse, in spite of easily available facts.
I think the media is about the same thing the court system was meant to be: To get the truth made known.
Unfortunately, it seems both have turned to creating the truth more often than not, which is a big difference.
The sports leader is especially good at stirring up controversy to get ratings during the off season. The topic of discipline for student athletes is controversial to begin with. Trying to make Bud look bad for his attempts at discipline is out of bounds. What should be the right approach? Every school in the country is dealing with this and there is no consensus. Never has been and never will.
That's not how it works. Mike Barber was savvy enough to notice something resembling a fining system and asked about it. That's good journalism and a perfectly fair question. To avoid the negative press, Bud's response should have been along the lines of "that's something to ask Coach Beamer about" wrapped up in a polite smile. Media asks questions, coaches, admins and players decide on how much to divulge. That's the game.
Unfortunately, I decided to check it out. I wonder how many of the responders bothered to check out the context or even know who Bud Foster is?
I had to restrain myself from signing up just to disagree with the title of the blog post...how many times has Bud Foster been called an "asshole" coach who looks for ways to "screw over" his players?
This probably fed into the quick squashing, as well as how badly it was getting trashed:
The tweeter here is the Associate AD for Compliance at Illinois
FWIW, the argument coming from some circles is that coaching staffs cannot decide to reduce financial aid. Since the stipend is part of the scholarship, they can't take it away.
It wasn't the smartest of comments, particularly given the nature of stipends, but Whit's doing a good job of quashing it.
I don't really think it's going to affect recruiting. It's not even a thing, just an off-hand, ill-considered comment.
It sure got a lot of publicity for something that we didn't consider seriously. Hopefully its all forgotten and does not bite us in recruiting.
Hard to believe it won't bite us in recruiting. If I was recruiting against VT, I would tell every recruit ever that VT wants to take his (the recruit's) money away. The narrative as it stands is an unfortunate and mostly inaccurate perception that Virginia Tech will have to combat on its end.
In a world where news makes it around the world in seconds this can't be undone in any amount of time. It has defiantly created a narrative VT didnt need in its recruiting.
In a world where news makes it around in seconds, most news is forgotten immediately. This is just taking quotes out of context anyways.
(Though the fact that a post on our own forum has a click-baity headline isn't heartening)
And a crystal clear AD policy that recruits can read will be the best way to do that. Im sure Whit will have one distributed by COB tomorrow.
A policy document won't stop other staffs from using this story to successfully negatively recruit against Tech.
It wont but just like Beamers extension it gives us the fuel to say:
Recruit yourre a smart kid, you can read the legally binding contract for yourself, and we have a clean NCAA record the past 25 years unlike other schools.
Not perfect but the best we got.
I think you're getting a little carried away here. This is hardly even a story (a couple click-bait articles don't count) with 0 substance to go with it.
Is it much ado about nothing? Yep, sure is. The full comments basically amount to "hey, that's something to think about" getting blown into "BUD FOSTER WANTS TO STEAL PLAYERS' MONEY." It's dumb as hell, but think about it from the other side - after all we talk about "VT Family" and doing things the "Beamer Way" and all the positive PR that we get all the time, it would be stupid of other schools to not try to use any bit of this against us. Sure, all it amounts to is a shiny thing to distract people, but if it's a potential vulnerability, 100% someone will try to use it against us.
Yeah that could still be true. I still wouldn't jump to any conclusions or start worrying until this shows up as anything more than a few reporters on twitter and obvious click-bait.
Somehow UNC keeps getting recruits, I'm not too worried.
Yeah but they advertise a college experience with all the perks, no pay and no class
and no repercussions from the NCAA.
I could also read it to say VT wants to run a clean ship that does it the right way and that's the kind of people I want to be around.... just sayin
I just upvoted this comment because it's extremely true but it makes me very, very sad.
Kyle Bailey said the whole thing seems overblown.
Kyle Bailey says that Keith Weltons makes for an interesting radio segment.
Does anyone have a direct quote from Bud IN CONTEXT?
"Foster: "In the real world, if you don't adhere to rules & regs., you get fired. We're not in a position to fire anybody right now."
"Foster said some people got in trouble for having players run at 6 am, so fining players' cost-of-attendance funds has been a topic."
https://twitter.com/normwood
looking to have added it to the spectrum of punishments.
Edit: video
So blatantly leading question that Bud actually answered "we'll look into that." I hate the internet.
Bud, know when to not answer a question.
He's not a politician, he probably didn't recognize that it was a leading question.
Not only that, but Bud is just an honest and forthcoming person. That's his personality. He along with Wiles shoot straight with the media. I think an unfortunate side effect is Bud being less insightful during interviews.
To take a positive spin on this, this whole episode could be viewed as a teaching moment and as good training on how to properly handle the media and avoid potential landmines if one wants to be a head coach in the near future. Better now than after... I mean, "if" he takes over for Frank.
It also should show the players that they are serious about them working hard and meeting expectations. Maybe the penalty is different than what was discussed, but there will be consequences if you aren't living up to what's expected.
Best quote about Whit's response:
Seventy-five thousand dollars later....
This will definitely keep us from getting the 5 star recruits...that we weren't getting in the first place! They already know FSU is the place to be if they want to get away with anything. I'd rather pay a few bucks then 4 years worth of student loans, meal plan, housing, and work a part time job on top of that!
Please. As long as the free coupons, knickknacks, and seasonal fruits and vegetables (I have a garden, now!) are coming in, no one's gonna care about a measly scholarship reduction.
I am interested in hearing more about these knick knacks.
Serious question!!!
Will there be paddy wacks with the knickknacks?
Give a dog a bone.
Maybe I'm just naive, but I honestly don't think this will affect us as much as some think.
1. Whit already shut it down.
2. In this day and age with social media stories come and go so fast. Nobody will be talking about this because they will be talking about Art Briles at Baylor or Kyle Flood at Rutgers or some other actual scandal that will pop up.
3. If a recruit and a parent hear this from other schools and ask our staff about it, then the coaches and Whit could easily set them straight with a 'that will not be happening at VT, period.'
Just my opinion. Could be wrong.
Point 3 above especially. Negative recruiting is always a possibility, but it doesn't matter if it doesn't carry any weight. Essentially those other school recruiters would then be lying to the recruits, which would be a big turn-off to me as a recruit.
"We won't be under any sanctions" " you will play soon" you are our next QB" " we have an offer for you" all lies told everyday on the recruiting trail.
The difference in the "Lie" I alluded to above and the lies you stated here are that your lies can't be proven they are lies until the kid is committed and already attached to the program, hence why its so easy for recruiters to make those promises. Its all about getting a kid to commit as quickly as possible. Once they spend some time on campus and dedicate themselves to practice, they'll become attached to the university. Of course, not every 18 year old correctly identifies where they want to spend the next 4 years on the first try and some do figure out the lies; enter transfer.
Unless a recruit is commuting in the next hour I don't see how this really adversely effects our recruiting.
Are we really worried about losing a recruit because they would prefer to be able to break rules without consequence? I wish they could legally fine them for serious rule violations.
Fine people for breaking rules? Oh no...QUICK! DAMAGE CONTROL! I can't believe he said that! We're going to have to speed up production on those participation trophies!
/s
I think he was using the word fine synonymously with punishment. Replace the fifth from the last word, "fine" with punishment. Makes peei sense, and I imagine Bud knew he was in up too his knees.
All of the attention on this just goes to show you the butt hurt pussy society that we live in. Blah.
At least our coaches aren't showing up drunk to booster events....
All kidding aside, I'm in the 'this is not a big deal' camp. A 10 win season will completely erase this. What is does hurt most IMO is Bud Foster's chances at replacing Frank. But, that's another issue, hopefully at least a season away, if not more.
More and more, the media these days seem to be content with creating clicks rather than reporting news. We see this all the time in politics, where the game is baiting the candidate into saying something that can be taken out of context. Now I know Deadspin isn't real news, but it's a bad trend.
Any time Bud spends on this is time taken away from his REAL job: getting this defense ready to beat Ohio State.
Is cost of attendance even implemented yet, and we're already overreacting (the Internet in general) to some speculation from one assistant coach?
One thing we haven't discussed (directly), is I hope Whit hasn't overreacted and he and Bud have a good discussion that doesn't lead to tension in the staff - that the damage control is just for the public and they're trading laughs over coffee right now while they reminisce about that one time Deadspin sensationalized something.
Thanks to Andy for the timely and full-context interview, it answers my questions. Everyone should take a read over at the blog.
Bitter Blog - Babcock offers clarification
Well, ESPN has already picked up on this. Mike and Mike just lambasted Bud, and even opined with Whit's statement that "it has been discontinued" that the fines were already in place and happening. So here we go, sports media speculation has begun. I'm sure we'll have some hot takes on it later this morning in their programming.
Mike Greenberg just displayed some of the most irresponsible reporting I've ever heard from him. Said Bud, the highest paid coordinator in the country, wants to fine players and that he must have already done it because Whit has stated that they will cease immediately. That entire story is flipped upside down and inside out.
I'm so tired of hearing how the schools are riding the backs of these athletes. Without the school name on the Jersey, college football would have a following similar to arena football, and if you compare those salaries with the cost and benefit of a scholarship, there isn't much if any gap. The passion is for the school not the athlete. Both sides benefit.
I think he was just saying most people are just confused because the response was that it will be "discontinued"
which means that it was already going on.
Just a weird situation all around.
I think it's part of the world we're living in now where everything comes out fast and on Twitter. For me, reading these statements over and over again, is that Foster said, "we're looking at this as a possibility," to which Whit replied, "we're going to discontinue that conversation." Since he followed up with a statement that fines never happened and never will, this is all I can come up with. Perhaps a bit inarticulate, but by the time Whit found out and made a statement, Bud was already getting bashed on social media and with click-bait BS articles, so he had to make some statement, fast.
Now that we know the policy was in place and fines levied, does that change your perspective ?
Obviously new information trumps interpretation.
I still don't believe this is as big a deal as some are making it out to be. Bad policy? Perhaps. Will it be used against us in recruiting? Definitely, and we have to fight back. Are we going to be singled out as the only ones doing this? Ultimately, no, I don't believe that. Other schools are certainly doing this or something similar.
This is a screw-up, but at least it's a screw-up on the side of good behavior and order. I'd take "VT went too far in enforcing rules to keep their players in class and make them good citizens and fully invested teammates" over "Miami gave recruits hookers and blow" or "UNC awarded fake degrees."
This is all eye candy for now, which still feeds into the instant news cycle that "requires" instant analysis and rebuttal.
u compared college football to arena? come on man!
Take the school name off the uniforms and all the pageantry and passion we have for college football would be gone. I have zero doubt about that.
Mike Greenberg is a self righteous, pompous windbag.
In other words... Gold Star ESPN talking head.
This hurts Fosters bid to replace Beamer. However Whit didn't handle it very well either saying that its discontinued when it never even was implemented.
I think it may be as I feared, he overreacted (just like ESPN) without all the details, although with good intentions.
Deadspin can go someplace cold with Matt Ryan.
If this has any effect on Bud's future prospects, I'm seriously disappointed. That means we let the sensationalized media win.
A college football head coach has to be able to do some politician speak when needed. Whether or not the media is being fair, you can't put yourself in a position like that. At this point in his career he should know better.
I think that factor is wildly overstated to be honest.
Coach speak is really just political speech after all. "You gotta be evasive, when they ask you a question you gotta be slip slidin away."
Saying "discontinued" before it's ever even implemented means that the quote was directed to the same make-believe audience the first one shipped off to. Translated through any filter, it simply reads "NO".
For the rest of us it's tongue-in-cheek; knowing we're not actually talking about a real thing and all ;)
I think Whit's word choice was ingenious.
I will say that Bud's comments were not the best even though he was lead into it but that is the job of the media now. I call it this era of media "The Gotcha" period.
Today everyone takes everything as offensive and media takes that as a way to increase monetary momentum by taking statements out of context on a regular basic just to entice a reaction in a hypersensitive society.
It's easy to judge someone with you only 140 characters of information to go off of. My only advice for Bud is from now on take a page out of Bruce Lee's book.
I feel like you could have some very inappropriate fun captioning this gif...
Unfortunately, this story isn't going to go away. In the era of ESPN and the rest of the media pushing pay for play, we just became the bad guys. They now have a villain for their movement, and its Bud Foster.
This isn't going away. Even more importantly, giving these kinds of quotes might be the single biggest reason he may never take over as head coach for any program down the line.
Doesn't look good but I think it will blow over. The media overreacts and I'm sure the coaches are telling the recruits it's been way overblown.
People forget that Harbaugh trashed Michigan's football academics about 5 years ago and look at him now.
This was a just a poor thing to bring up that will never ever happen. I think he'll be fine.
I highly doubt that it really effects Bud's chances anywhere down the line. I'm fairly certain other coaches have said and DONE worse things and are still coaching. Besides, he didn't SAY anything.
I've heard of a certain coach who broke the rules in college football and left to go to he NFL before he could be punished. I've heard of a coach who blatantly cheated who's still head coach in the NFL. I've heard of coaches lying to their teams and their schools saying they'd stick around only to be on a plane the next day to a new place that paid more. I feel like anything short of covering up sex crimes gets a pass if you know how to coach/play. It won't blow over immediately, but it will blow over, and it won't hurt Bud's chances anywhere.
Yes because NO other coach has ever been reprimanded for saying things to the media that they shouldn't have or done something to tarnish their image and became or remained a Head Coach. Just to name a few, Steve Sarkisian, Bo Pelini, George O'Leary, Bobby Petrino, Mike Leach, and many others. This is and will be hardly anything at all that will bite him in the ass down the road.
All we did was get drunk on the job, or lied about our qualifications, or cheat on the wife while on the university's dime, but at least we didn't answer a question about thinking about exploring the possibility of adding the fining of players for bad behavior on and off the field to already existing punishment.
Sincerely,
All the above named Coaches.
Don't worry, everything will be fine.
but...but, whit said there would be no fine?
- Oh, stop it Shane!
I mean the head ball coach at USC got wasted, gave a very inappropriate speech and the media only talked about it for like a day and a half with the intend to smear him as a raging alcoholic who needs rehab.
I give this a day in the media but a feather in the hat for a while for other schools to use in recruiting.
The big difference is that player pay has been a huge discussion the past couple years. A coach getting drunk at a fundraiser is different than trying to take money from a group working for free while making an organization millions.
There is a chicken and egg argument to be had about those millions. Let's say a coach fines a player 100 bucks for blatantly being negligent of the players duties. You think that's worse than a coach publicly making a drunken fool of himself?
One way to look at it is the player will be back at practice the next day, back on the field, and (depending on the player) back on award watch lists.
The coach may be out of a job and the team out of an entire season.
In the eyes of the public it probably would be worse. It tugs on the heart strings of many issues. Underprivileged kids getting money for their education taken away by a guy that makes millions off of them.
I think painting all athletes as underprivileged is concerning. Also, taking stipend money away is not detracting from the education. But I agree that a lot of the public has this mindset, and that, to me, is a problem. Remember, this hypothetical fine would have only occurred after grossly breaking a rule. So, who would have truly been responsible for the loss of that money?
Seems as though it's not only Bud that was asked about this
Brilliant. Leg for you.
One big thing to note is that Cinci as a G5 school is not required to even OFFER a COA stipend, the rule change enforced by O'Bannon only applied tot he P5, so Cinci, ECU, and the rest since they don't have to offer anything to start can probably just as easy justify taking it away.
It is at times like these that I am very happy to be the Luddite in the dark. Never twittered a word, never gotten one, never texted anyone, never received one, never been on Facebook, never missed it. My cell phone is a tracphone we only use on the road, probably two or three minutes a month average. If it weren't for email, TKP and water conditions in the Chesapeake Bay, I could toss the laptop and not miss it much. Part of the reason I eschew "social media" is stuff like this and a genuine disapproval of making it easier to for nuts and crackpots and other nefarious idiots to disseminate bullshit and lies and..... Yep, I'm the quintessential old fart in a quickly changing world, but I really don't think I miss out on anything important. As long as my friends still answer my telephone calls, from my land line, I think I'm in touch enough, and I won't be that idiot driving and texting, or even talking on the phone while drivin. And I won't be that idiot walking into traffic or falling in a hole or ignoring those around me while fiddling with my cellphone. As for Bud, as has been pointed out, he is a little "unrefined" and up front honest, and it does sound like he spoke without thinking it through. I feel bad for him, but to think that this will define VT to all potential recruits is maybe giving more legs to the story than it merits.
Hell as the father of a player, i must be missing something! So, if the kids do what they are supposed to do, whats the problem? Good decisions yield rewards, bad ines yield consequences. When my guy makes bad choices at home there are consequences. VT has one of the least amount of players to get in legal trouble in the country. Maybe what they do works. I would love for him to leave as a better man than when he came. Accountability should be one of the corners of the foundation of a man. Bud just suggested a watered down version of what good parents do everyday and I expected nothing less. Hell he could share my foxhole anyday!!!
^^
this man does not have enough turkey legs. Everyone go upvote all his previous comments. Love me some papa mook
seriously wish all our recruits were like mook was and all their folks were like jreynolds06
I always love it when you pop in.
You didn't recently return a participation trophy, did you?
jreynolds06, I love that you're here. You can provide the #1 most important perspective a Hokie football fan can have regarding a wide variety of situations impacting students, athletes, and families all in a nutshell. In my opinion, in these types of situations, your opinion weighs as heavily on my interpretation as any could. Thanks.
I'm just curious here how we would all be reacting if it was a DC from another school, say aOSU, that this came from? Would we even be talking about it? Would we say that they need to get out the torches and pitchforks?
Yeah, but logic doesn't go over very well on sites like Deadspin...
TSL has a pretty good article about the whole thing.
TSL free article about CBF
Didn't know if this has been discussed yet. VT caught so much crap for this in the summer, now a major program is doing it
http://espn.go.com/college-football/story/_/id/14037066/ohio-state-bucke...
Mike & Mike dragged our program through the mud over fining players for missing meetings and tutoring sessions, so I have to wonder how this will be received.
This is a significantly different situation.
I agree. I'm just wondering how critical the media will be of a decision like this; punishing a player financially.
Actions have consequences. DUI is a pretty serious offense.
Did I say anywhere that it wasn't?
No.
But the media can write what they want.
If you get a DUI in the military, you often lose your career. If a college athlete gets a DUI, losing their stipend a semester seems reasonable.
Apples and oranges here. There's a big difference between DUI (or whatever the misdemeanor charge he got was) and missing a meeting. In this case, I think Urban is 100% within his rights to do what he's doing: kid did something illegal and reflected poorly on himself and his program, so he lost his scholarship for a term - with the opportunity to earn it back - and will go through counseling at OSU. It's harsh, but well within Urban's rights as head coach.
I agree.
I also don't understand how this is an exception to their "suspend the athlete 2 games" rule. The rule, as written, doesn't indicate that the action has to be a felony in order to receive the two usual game suspension.
Starting QB on a team trying to make the playoffs.
AnOSU has two legitimate QB starters.
It may be his first alcohol offense, but maybe there are some other infractions or issues lingering. Not that this is a big indicator, but he wasn't in the coaches room for lunch at the welcome back to practice meal (from the tv show they did...) Plus, he's underage.