Today the media had an opportunity to chat with defensive coordinator Bud Foster, and it led to an interesting exchange about the possibility of monetary fines (from players' cost-of-attendance stipends) as a means of discipline.
"Well, we're going to look at doing that," Foster said when broached about the subject. "You know, there's some people that got in trouble for punishing people at 6 a.m. in the morning and obviously you know you need some discipline, some discipline issues and I think that's one way you can potentially do that and control that a little bit. These guys right now, they haven't had access to money unless they've been Pell Grant recipients, so they'll want that when it's all said and done at the end of the day."
Foster also acknowledged other alternative discipline methods such as reducing game ticket allotments and fines from bowl game stipends.
"Yeah, we can do that. We can do that as well, which is part of our policy, too. Yeah, there's that potential and then obviously sitting out quarters or halves or games, too. So you know that all ties in together.
"We've done that with bowl games and things of that nature over the years. But that was with certain fines and things with game day attire and different things like that. The bottom line is we want guys doing the right thing, being a team all the time, being consistently good, developing those habits and all those types of things. In the real world, you don't adhere to the rules and regulations, you get fired. We're not in a position to fire anybody right now, so we can fine them a little bit."
Virginia Tech athletic director Whit Babcock said Wednesday night the idea of football players being fined for violation like missing team meetings or being late for meals "has been discontinued".
"I had no idea of any of it," Babcock said Wednesday night. "Have addressed and will further. It has been discontinued 100 percent. ... I don't know of any past practice and I didn't know about this today either. Again, has been addressed and will be further. All of it discontinued immediately."
Additional interesting tidbits and quotes from Foster
As of right now, here's whom Foster said he would likely redshirt: DEs Houshun Gaines, Darius Fullwood, DTs Tim Settle and Harry Lewis and LB Carson Lydon.
Foster expects freshman backer Tremaine Edmunds to be play on special teams this year and is grooming him to replace Deon Clarke for next year. He even compared Edmunds to former NFL LB Xavier Adibi.
He is concerned about DE Dadi Nicolas possibly developing bad habits in the run game with the cast on his right hand (which Foster referred to as broken).
He loves DE Vinny Mihota's motor and aggressiveness.
ON ANDREW MOTUAPUAKA BEING A LEADER ON DEFENSE:
"He wants to be a leader. As a young player, you always want to be a little quiet but him playing under Chase (Williams) and Jack (Tyler), I think Andrew (Motuapuaka) really learned from Chase (Williams) a lot. I used him (Williams) as an example. Just being loud and everybody's counting on him, particularly up front. Just be decisive in your calls and he's taken to that role and I appreciate that."
ON SEAN HUELSKAMP BACKING UP MOTUAPUAKA:
"He's a guy that was going to figure in last year on special teams, but tore his ACL on I think the opening kickoff. He's a guy that I really trust. Plays for us very smart, very intelligent. Kind of a little bit of a Chase Williams, Jack Tyler kind of guy right there a little bit. Smart, heady kid. Tough kid. He'll play for us."
ON BACKER DEON CLARKE:
"You know, Deon (Clarke) has really come in this year with a great attitude. Attacked the weight room. He was 229-230 lbs. You know, which he put on about 15 lbs from last year. Working hard to be a complete linebacker instead of just being a guy that we're blitzing off the edge or playing in our Bear defense and doing those kinds of things. For us to be successful, he needs to be a complete football player and do a lot of different things because that spot for us is a playmaking spot and has been and he's showed that skill set. Just being another year along and last year was his first year playing a significant amount and you saw him get better and the game so slow down and that's what I've seen right now. He's just in a little better comfort zone than where he was last year."
ON IF HAVING CORNERBACKS PLAY MAN-COVERAGE AGAINST OHIO STATE IS MORE OF A RISK THIS YEAR:
"Well, I'm not going to say what we're going to do, but yeah, that's a concern a little bit. You know, we've got good corners. I think that's the one thing in that game with the exception of a couple plays, we matched up very well with them on the perimeter and if you can do that, that allows you to load the box. You know, they want to run the football. But QB (Cardale) Jones did a great job of throwing the ball down the stretch, but everybody (opponents) was just playing, kind of, quarter-quarter-halves (Cover 6) and he did a great job of finding the open man in the zone. In our defense, I don't care what coverage we're playing, we very rarely have guys running free through zones. You know, we're going to match somebody up and you know, we're going to do a couple of little things different, but hopefully at the same time we're going to have a lot of people running with their receivers and make that quarterback make good throws and throw under duress and I think that's where we're a little bit different than who they've played. I got a lot of respect for Alabama and Oregon and Wisconsin, but I think our front is a little more aggressive and twitchier and can cause some problems a little bit more than those other groups. You know, it's going to be a combination of both. We've got to be able to get some pressure on the quarterback like we did last year, but good coverage also allows for good pressure and good pressure allows for good coverage. So, it's all going to tie in together."
Linebacker Andrew Motuapuaka
ON IF THERE WERE PLAYERS HE EMULATED GROWING UP:
"Troy Polamalu was always my guy. I mean, the way he plays with passion and just flying around to the ball, that's really all I watched. I mean, Ray Lewis, he's the man. He's the man at linebacker. I liked watching safeties. I always wanted to play safety, but I guess I'm too big, too heavy."
ON IF THERE WAS A PLAYER HE EMULATED WHEN HE ARRIVED ON CAMPUS:
"When I got here my freshman year, (LB) Jack Tyler was here. Great linebacker. Man, I don't think I've seen anybody have quicker reads. I mean, he'd read it and his reactions were really quick and I want to get my reads up to that point."
ON HIS BIGGEST STRENGTH AS A LINEBACKER
"I don't know if I have a biggest strength. I really can't tell you what my biggest strength is. I don't know. Just have fun. That's what it's about for me. When you're having fun, most of the time you're doing everything right."
ON PLAYING ALONGSIDE BACKER DEON CLARKE:
"It's a pleasure to play alongside him again. Last year, I only got four games to play with him, but I'm excited to just play next to him. Me and Deon, we get after it sideline to sideline. I know Deon's going to give me his best effort and I'm going to give him my best. That's what it's all about. Laying it all down for your brother."
ON WHAT HE'S HOPING TO IMPROVE UPON THIS SEASON:
"I'm trying to just be more mentally sharp. I mean, there's a lot of big plays that we let pop last year and we want to minimize those and all those come down to really, like mental mistakes and just not filling gaps like where we're supposed to and that's what it comes down to. Just making sure all the little things are right and just making sure you're there mentally."
Comments
Man, reading this gets me psyched for the season to begin....that's play some FOOTBALL! Go Hokies!
So have we fined players from bowl stipends in the past, and is that part of what will be "discontinued"? Or did the two just get lumped together?
Reading Whit's entire quote, it seems like the bowl stipend fines will be discontinued, although some have lumped everything together and blown up Twitter.
I just read Andy's interview. Answers a lot of questions.
Bitter Blog - Babcock offers clarification
I have to agree with Wit. The stipends and "cost of attendence" was put in place so that athletes would have an appropriate amount of money to live on. I don't think straining the players "monetarily" is the answer.
I'm worried Dadi's injury is worse than advertised. Foster referred to it as broken and Dadi may be forming bad habits? On the Snapchat Dadi was stymied during one on one's with the OL. He also looked less explosive.
We barely see any of practice on Snapchat. I wouldn't worry about Dadi at all.
think it was on beamerball that even wiles was considered he may develop bad habits with the use of the cast. Bud also mentioned it was broken I believe.
From what Bud said yesterday, Dadi is hesitating to use it to jam the tackle because of the pain it causes him. That makes it hard to set the edge. However, apparently it should cease being tender here soon and he should be full go with just a soft cast on that hand, so hopefully he will be broken of any of those habits quickly.
FWIW, he looked like his old self in the scrimmage. Very explosive and disruptive. I think he just needs to get reps and knock some rust off.
Mike & Mike just called out Bud this AM during a few segments of their show... not the kind of news attention we want going into the OSU game, but IN BUD WE TRUST!
And I do agree taking money from "cost of attendance" stipends doesn't sit well with me, but if (when) we get to paying players it's 100% got to come into play!
personally I like him trying to hold players accountable. if you don't have disciplinary issues you have nothing to worry about.
I do agree. Now the fining thing is definitely a touchy subject. I think in theory, it was a reasonable way to get these guys' attention. Just like anything else, you want to hit them were it hurts but for the student athletes, that may not be the best way to go about it. It sounded like it was more of an idea than a current practice though.
I have no problem holding them accountable. 6AM belly floppers up and down the field (or insert you personal form of hell) seem to do just fine.
Taking money from college kids who don't get paid, not the way to do it. I think his heart was in the right place but the idea is horrendous.
just to clarify, it seemed he was alluding to withholding money that would have been paid, not taking money from kids who don't get paid.
and, belly floppers? Are those the same as up-downs?
I agree with you I think the statements were out of context. If he was getting ahead of himself to fines in a day where they're paid a real salary that's a whole different ball game.
Belly floppers were sprints up and down the field, every time you heard a whistle you did an up-down and got back up to keep running. It was almost worse mentally waiting on the whistle as you run. They'd blow it four or five times in quick succession then wait, and as you ran down the field, you know it's going to come, but don't know when, and it's awful.
Bud mentioned that he was concerned about people getting in trouble for 6am runs (see craig james). I like the idea of letting people know there is a price to screwing up. God forbid we try to instill morals and decency. Who wants to end up like Florida State?
Ehhhhhhh
*tries to convince self a morally corrupt trophy wouldn't be worth it*
anyone else think that woman looks like a zombie?
I just think that taking their money is out of line. Make them do community service, make them clean the bathrooms or the dining halls, I don't care. I just don't think it's ok for an 8-figure business to take money from an individual who isn't a real employee to begin with.
EDIT: In response to your FSU comparison, which I know was tongue and cheek, but if our administration ever responded to a rape or domestic abuse accusation with a fine, I would be furious. At that point, you are literally sending a message that money solves problems.
That's another aspect of the problem with monetary punishments - it affects different people differently. For Antone Exum, who came from a family of means, $10 probably was not a big deal. For Darren Evans, who had a kid and a family to raise, that $10 fine for missing class could be preventing him from buying diapers for his infant child. If Darren slept in one day, and missed his 8am classes, would you really want to prevent him from buying diapers for his kid?
The obvious response to the above scenario is that the coaches exercise discretion in who/what/when they use monetary punishment - I think this could cause issues with the team chemistry. It's best to stay away from fines and stick to other forms of punishments. Like I said, find something. Give the equipment guys friday afternoon off, and have the trouble makers do everyone else's laundry. It's not that hard to think of a non-monetary punishment.
I think the getting in trouble for making players do extra conditioning was in reference to a trainer at a school (Tulane) getting fired for doing just that.
http://footballscoop.com/news/tulane-strength-coach-fired-for-using-runn...
Wow. Interesting article. A couple notes:
Making a football player run might be a different subject from making a bowler run. I don't know that you could honestly tell a bowler you were making them better, as well as instilling discipline.
If a parent's complaint gets a coach fired, the discipline issue is the least of your problems.
It sounds like this coach was not fired for punishing kids harshly; she was fired for being out of step with her boss. And because someone's mommy was upset that someone came home and cried about having to run. But that draws attention to the real issue with Bud's comments, which is that they took Whit Babcock by surprise.
For those that are worried about the coaches taking away bowl per-diems and whether that is allowed, I have a feeling this isn't an issue since it's likely only applied when they send someone home on a Greyhound bus. When that happens, your trip is shortened and thus you don't get per-diem for the same length of time. So they aren't "taking it away" as much as they are saying "you're no longer on the trip, so you are no longer entitled to per-diem. So you need to pay us back the amount you would have got on the days you missed." You can't get per-diem if you aren't travelling.
Apparently I was incorrect. Read a David Teel article that linked back to a story from '06 about Beamer docking Aaron Rouse $100 of his bowl money for a personal foul. My understanding is that it's allowed though because it's not messing with a student's financial aid. Though reports say that many schools have language in the financial aid contract that allows for them to be able to punish them for certain acts, such as criminal acts or others.
"I got a lot of respect for Alabama and Oregon and Wisconsin, but I think our front is a little more aggressive and twitchier and can cause some problems a little bit more than those other groups."
Ha! Thats fantastic!
Not at all. i think its awesome to hear. Hopefully we hear that same opinion from thise outside the hokie nation when this season gets started.
what reporter started the discipline line of questioning? wish Bud would have refocused the discussion on football not on internal policy discussions that frankly he seemed ill prepared to answer and as a defensive coach may not be under his control anyway
Without revealing too much, there was some evidence that we saw (and probably weren't supposed to see) that indicated fines were being considered. That's why the very first question asked pertained to fines, etc.
Think it's safe to say the evidence has come to light.
Tremaine Edmunds is the PREDATOR
Did Bud just lose his shot at HC?
I think for a year or two at least, he needs CFB to hang around long enough so this is completely forgotten IMO
I highly doubt it.
No because I guarantee you Bud is just the only person who has said something like this out loud. Coaches all over the country are probably changing their opinions since they likely had similar thoughts. Everyone is looking for a new form of motivation for their players to follow the rules and succeed. Money is a strong motivator and so it's only natural that coaches everywhere were thinking about this.
Isn't saying it out loud the issue, though? Isn't that one of the differences between being the best coordinator in the country and being a head coach -- knowing how to handle that sort of issue at a press conference?
I wouldn't go as far as "lost his shot," but if I were on the interview panel, there would be some tough questions on this issue (not the issue of how you discipline kids, but the issue of how you handle press conferences). I really want to see Bud as the next HC, and when this story broke last week that was my first reaction: it could be a real setback for him.
How many head coaches would be out of a job if every time they opened their mouth and brought negative press to the school, they were fired? Pelini, O'Leary, Sarkisian, Grundy, and many others would all be out of a job. It's a blip on the radar right now, but history speaks louder than one instance.
I wouldn't worry about that at all. He made one comment, if that's enough for Babcock to take him out of the coach race he probably wasn't highly considered to begin with.
Immediately, no....
But I think this whole situation shows he has A LOT to learn about how to handle the media so that these kinds of things don't happen again. Trust me, the last thing Whit wants to be doing right now is fielding questions and calls about something an assistant coach of his said in an interview. And if Bud were made head coach, the possibilities of this kind of thing happening again only go up.
If they screw up bad enough they shouldn't get anything. We shouldn't pander to these children just because they play football
Maybe I'd agree if players were being paid a performance based salary, but they're not. There's plenty of other ways to discipline. Get original with it. Have them wake up early and write lines on chalkboard or something.
Had to give you a leg...
But really, if you cannot think of any punishment other than fines and sprints, you need to do better.
What about Minor and Moss? I thought they were supposed to be pretty good. Is Edmunds expected to leapfrog them for the starting spot?
I just asked about Edmunds. Foster added he definitely doesn't want to RS him because he wants Edmunds in the meeting rooms to gear him up for a role next year. I also popped the question about him outgrowing the LB spot and that's a possibility, with a move to DE. I know there's been some chatter about converting Edmunds to TE and Foster scoffed at that notion. Just get the vibe that Foster REALLY LIKES Edmunds' ceiling.
May be a dumb question but are RS guys excused from meetings?
I believe that they work with the scout team during game week. So they're still learning football principles, but they are not involved in the implementation of VT's game plan for the week.
Offseason, spring, and fall camp is generally when most of the learning of the system is done.
I have no issues with fining. You don't put in the work, you don't reap the benefits. That being said, I understand these are kids, who are supposed to be learning and growing. It is an intern-ship then, very low pay, long hours, lots of learning. The question is, is it legal? That's the problem, its almost certain that removing the funds designated for "transportation and miscellaneous expenses," would not sit well with the FBS/NCAA since it's a not so subtle attempt to clearly divide the "have's from the have-not's," and thus is probably illegal.
I think Bud is getting flak for the fine issue because he happened to be the first coach available after the issue found light. This would have been a VT football issue, not a Bud Foster issue. And there undoubtedly are other coaching staffs across the country that have either considered or are considering similar policies. Tuberville affirmed that he'd consider it this morning at Cincinnati.
Given how this entire topic has dominated the site today (and probably tomorrow but hopefully not), I can't help but think that it has been a major topic for the players/coaches the past day -------> WHICH IS BAD. We need to diffuse this media bomb and get back to preparing for Labor Day.
I'm sorry, but every time this thread loads all I can think is "AAAAAHHHHH MY EYES!!!!" Seriously, short sleeved windbreakers are bad enough, but a bright orange irregular heptagonal zippered pocket on what little sleeve there is? Come on guys.
Tell him to take it off.
What Happened to the Dispipline of
NEXT MAN UP
You earn your spot to play. You miss meeting or meals, then the guy who didn't gets to play a play, a quarter, or the game
Then you're punishing the whole team for the actions of one person. It's certainly a tool, but usually reserved for more serious offenses.