I'm sure Joey or Kevin will have more on this tonight.
#Hokies assistant Shane Beamer says Shai McKenzie won't redshirt this year. Marshawn Williams still might.— Mike Barber (@RTD_MikeBarber) September 1, 2015
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Got to trust the coaches, got to trust the coaches, repeat....
No brainer. The multiple offense only works if we have multiple backs to rotate on each series
sounds more like multiple migraines to me
good for him
If I don't see something like going with the 2 hot backs I will throat punch Shane. Not really I'm way too old.
I have said in other threads, but Shai has looked way to good to redshirt.
Good enough to replace someone in the top three?
IMO yes, I think we see him regain his starting spot.
I think he is by far the most natural RB we have. Just don't think he is as explosive as a guy like trey or possibly travon.
Not a surprise. I thought he was our best, most natural runner last year. If he is performing well enough to play, then the knee is fine.
How do we give 4 backs significant carries to warrant not redshirting at least one of them...?
I have a feeling we will see more 2 back sets with JC and McMillian in the slot. It will allow us to show a power look but still have a slot WR type on the field. They will also be used in the jet sweep/PA role.
This is what I am thinking especially without a 3rd WR stepping up
Doesn't having Bucky and Mallack kinda negate the lack of a true 3rd WR?
RB is where we have too many bodies at the moment, JC, Trey, Mcmillan. Now add in Shai and then the possibility of Juice? I know no RB wants to say "Yeah, take me out of the fight, I'll learn by watching", but part of being in charge means you get to make that call.
We don't.
Until Shai works his way back up the Depth Chart, JCC and Edmunds will be the 2 RB's getting the majority of snaps, with McMillian getting #3. Those 3 roles are pretty much fixed, with RB 1 getting 40-50% of the carries, RB 2: 30-40%, and RB 3 10-20%.
If Shai can beat out any of those 3 guys for playing time then he doesn't need to be redshirted.
if only shane operated like this...
He didn't for the OSU game last year, and it worked rather well (that was Shai and Marshawn).
Agreed. Our rbs tore it up that game:
Shai 7 carries 7 yards 1 YPC
Marshawn 12 carries 20 yards 1.7 YPC
JC 3 carries 16 yards 5.3 YPC
Our leading rusher was newsome with jet sweeps and 38 yards. You have to be kidding...
It "worked" because Bud Foster is a golden god and it's colored our memories of how the offense actually played that night.
Yup. I'll give the offense credit in the first half for playing great on 3rd downs, but we played awful on most 1st and 2nd downs which put us in long 3rd downs to start off with. We played awful offensively in the 2nd half until OSU tied the game and then finally put together another drive. The running game was never a bright spot in that game outside of one sam rogers run.
Are you referring to the play where he was supposed to pass to Brewer, but decided to tuck it and run instead?
It was a run/pass option...
Yes it was the only one over 15 yards that I can remember.
Deon Newsome had a jet sweep run for 24 yards, too.
wasn't marshawns TD run over 20?
The running game was really poor last year, an area for improvement on Monday. I doubt we will be as good on 3rd downs again, but we can stop running into the backs of our OLineman on every carry.
Woah, sorry. Didn't think anyone would actually think I was being serious on that one. I figured everyone knew from the fact that we converted so many third-and-longs.
yeah, and what is the breakdown of those carries?
Williams = 12 carries = 55% of RB carries
McKenzie = 7 carries = 32%
Coleman = 3 carries = 13%
Pretty close to my ballpark figures listed above, wouldn't you say? Here they are again so you don't have to scroll.
#1: 40-50%,
#2 30-40%,
#3 10-20%
S. Beamer stuck to that breakdown for most of the season, except when injuries messed up the rotation.
my issue with your breakdown is there is not 110% carries to go around. math itll get after ya.
but I know what you meant. :)
so that's 22 carrier total.
Marshawn got 54%
Shai got 31%
JC got 14%
Looking at 3 other games..and relation to carries %'s and yards
ECU _ Marshawn had 17 or 70% for 74 yards of carries and Shai had 7 or 30% for 18 yards JC got 0
GT- Shai had 12 or 46% for 51 yards Marshawn had 10 or 38% for 36 yards JC+Trey got 4 carries combined for 9 yards
WMU- Shai had 18 or 51% for 87 yards Marshawn had 14 or 40% for 119 yards Joel Caleb had 4 carries or 11% for 44 yards
Issues isn't with who got carries or %'s I think it comes down to how many of those drives did we see all 3 rb's..
This year I believe we will see more of a Shai and Trey 1-2 punch with JC being the xfactor/breather back..
It comes down to whether the knee is healed or not. If Shai is cleared for football, redshirting won't make him any "more" healed. That's just not how ACLs work.
You can argue Shai should redshirt because we have enough backs available, but that's another conversation.
Well, that's just it. The crowded backfield is the main point of the conversation. Why waste a year to be a cameo back?
Besides the ACL injury could play into it. If Shai is not confident on that knee, it will slow him down mentally.
If the backfield is the main point here, then I'll just say, do you take a back who can clearly contribute, and who might well crack the two-deep depending on how JCC and Trey start out the year? If, God forbid, JCC's brilliance down the stretch last year was a flash in the pan, we'll need able bodies behind him ready to step up. Between Shai and McMillian, Shai is the one who has been there. You'd want that experience available if one of the top two backs goes down or hits a slump.
It won't make the ACL "more" healed, but it would give Shai more time to improve his conditioning. Better conditioning can reduce the chances of an ACL tear. He missed a lot of time due to his suspension. We're talking about a guy who is coming off his 2nd ACL tear.
It also lets you build confidence. I tore an ACL three years ago now and it's always in the back of my mind. That stuff never really goes away but it lessens overtime.
But what if Shai is already confident? By all reports, he's ready and eager to get back on the field. And the reciprocal to the conditioning argument above is the threat of rust after a year of relative complacency. Now this would be another conversation with Marshawn, who will be returning from ACL tear halfway through the season. Conditioning will be a big factor there, because he won't have done summer conditioning and would be dropping straight into live game situations. But Shai has come back gradually, and looks great in practice. I don't think there's any reason to be concerned he isn't in proper football shape.
i aint even mad
I may be in the minority here, but I think Shai is by far our best tailback. If he can stay focused on and off the field, he will be NFL material. I think the coaches see his potential and so it makes it hard to sit him out.
I agree, but I would say Shai is our best tailback in two months, not currently.
My point is that the best back in two months is when half the season is over. Redshirt. But I also think Trey and Travon are good enough to carry the rock this year.
So here's a thought that just occurred to me. Broken bones aside, and just focusing on things like soft-tissue injuries, what effect does being pulled from a game after warming up, having your body start to cool down, then being dropped right back into the mix have on those soft tissues?
I don't know if it really makes any kind of difference. Suffice to say I'm not a fan of pulling a back who is in the groove unless he is gassed, or it's some master stroke of strategy that does not include Dustin Pickle trying to pick up a crucial third down. Never will be.
that's why they have those bikes on the sidelines you always see guys on.
You mean like this?
Actually, I always thought that they were just being good teammates by keeping those fans running to cool off everyone off../s
Man, #7 must be pedaling so fast that the assistants near the bike have to bundle up so they don't freeze.
He's just that good at what he does...
When healthy, Shai is fun to watch. I cant wait to watch him play a full season.
Thought Shai looked strong in the last open scrimmage, can't blame them if he is 100%, he is a stud.
I really can't blame them. If he is deemed 100% and fully ready to go, what is the point of a redshirt year? He has the potential to be a great back for us, and he showed it in flashes before his injury last season. I know we seem pretty set with JC, Trey, and the big play potential of McMillian, but I feel like we will need Shai this year as well. Too talented to keep off the field if healthy.
Minorly bold prediction. Shai is our lead back by UVA without any injuries in front of him
I think the boldest part of that prediction is the whole "without any injuries" part, sadly.
Sad but true
I'll say he is in the primary 2 back rotation by October when the conference schedule begins.
I'm fine with it. If he's healthy and ready to go, play ball. You're looking at 4 running backs now, all of whom will be needed throughout the year. Guys get nicked up, keep them all engaged and ready to go when their number is called. The younger backs have a great role model in that regard, #4.
If McKenzie is a future NFL rb it won't much matter if he has a sophmore year with limited carries. NFL running backs on average have a shorter run than other positions so one less year of being a feature back might not be all that bad for him.
As for the team, only one game matters and right now that's OSU. JC and Trey with the change of pace McMillan looks like a good trio to start off with. GO HOKIES!
All I gotta say is, Marshawn better friggin redshirt.
Wait, Shane is going to have four running backs he's going to rotate?
Fine by me. We don't need 5 running backs.
Yet.
Call me cynical, but this year's Shane Beamer is going to be like last year's Shane Beamer. Also, I think Shai has a Tony Gregory knee; I bet he tears an ACL again this year.
Yep, you're cynical.
And we have absolutely no tolerance for that kind of attitude this close to Game Day! Damn it man, pull out your O&M glasses, take a big swig of the Kool-Aide and jump aboard the Hype-Train for goodness sake! We are less than a week away from playing the number 1 team in the nation at LANE STADIUM and we demand nothing but pure positive feelings, absolutely NO NEGATIVE VIBES within a 300 mile radius of Blacksburg is allowed!
Got it?
I feel better now...(where'd I put my meds?)
No meds for you. Back to the Kool Aid, guy.
I'm not your guy, buddy
I'm not your buddy, friend!
We're not your friend, Pal.
I'm not your pal, guy.
EDIT: dammit Alum beat me by 28 seconds.
There's my meds! Damn it, VTGuitarMan how'd you find my stash? Ok, I'll share, just remember to pass it back.
Stop it with the negative waves! Its a beautiful knee, baby. It will be there all season!
Love the reference....then I noticed your avatar. Awesome. I need that to be the lock screen on my phone or something.
Basic paint skills at work it's all i've got in my lunch pail. Kelly's Heros - tons of great lines.
Short of injuries I don't know why you would do this. We have seen the multiple headed monster fail over and over again. Hopefully it is all smoke and mirrors...
Hopefully not this "Smoke"
anyone think the reason he isn't redshirting is because he is the clear #1 and will be after Furman?
also while i realize Shane is the RB coach there is no way a position coach makes this decision independent of both the OC and the HC.
personally don't think he'll be #1 any time soon. I think he's not redshirting b/c it's been said he's going to transfer if he does.
Well, I don't see how that would help him. He would have to sit out a year anyway, unless he went the JUCO/FCS route for a year. But still, I would very much understand him being upset by a redshirt decision. There is no justification for a redshirt if he is 100% healthy other than to just narrow down the carries at the position. If the ACL is fully healthy now, a redshirt is not going to somehow make it better, and the coaches would just be using the injury as an excuse to add some separation between the RBs. I definitely think Shai is our best all-around back currently, and if the production from JC and/or Trey isn't there, we're going to need him.
Well, that doesn't make sense. Either he would lateral transfer and lose a year of eligibility, or he would drop down to a lower level, and probably want to transfer back upwards later. Either way, he'd be losing out on this season, and possibly next season depending on the timing.
I agree with you guys about it not making sense, but that's the rumor out there. Kids don't make logical decisions when they have their feelings hurt...
I imagine the conversation went like this:
"Shai, we might want to redshirt you. Plenty of backs, 2 ACL surgeries."
"If you redshirt me, I transfer. I'll be sitting a year out anyway, may as well do it at another school."
"Oh, okay. You can play then."
i think this goes on a lot more than people realize.
Agreed. I feared that he would leave if he was forced to redshirt as well.
#marinades
I believe he was the #1 before he was hurt, I could see him being at least co #1 depending on how well he and Trey have recovered from their injuries .. I definitely think if both are 100% they both beat out JCC
JCC and Trey have both battled injuries the last several years. Shai is coming off a knee surgery. Travon is an unknown in game situations. I don't think 4 is too many running backs.
I think we see JCC / Sam Rogers operate as the 3rd WR quite a bit.
For everyone saying it's already a crowded backfield, you need to remember it's always going to be a crowded backfield. We lose JCC but gain Marshawn and DJ Reid (and a few others as well). We'll continue recruiting new running backs as well. Unless we completely screw up on the recruiting trail, the running back stable will always be crowded. If a guy is ready to play and can compete for a spot, you have to let him play, and enjoy the talented depth while you have it.
Keep the arrows away from his knee. We don't want him on guard duty.