So... Motley looked less than stellar in his most-of-a-half play. Since we didn't see Lawson, I assume he's not ready, and the coaches don't want to burn the redshirt. Any word on Durkin? I really haven't heard much about him this year. Is he a viable option if Motley continues to not cut it, and Brewer takes a while to get back?
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Can't embed tweets on my phone but according to Bitter's Twitter Durkin will get more reps this week but so will Lawson.
Motley came in ice cold against the best team college football has seen in a long time. Let's see if he can move the sticks against Furman/Purdue before we start calling for the 3rd and 4th stringers.
Just throwing it out there, more as an alternative to burning Lawson's redshirt.
they already said Lawson isn't going to shirt, get him in there.
They should play the guy that gives them the best chance to win. If they feel that is Motley, then play him until they feel otherwise. If needed, my guess is that Lawson will be the next QB up. He has the most talent, just needs experience. Hopefully Motley and Lawson or Durkin will do well until Brewer is healthy.
Purdue looked pretty good vs. Marshall, but it's still Purdue.
Marshall is replacing their starting QB, top WR and TE, 2 OL (including 1 all-conference), and 6 of their front 7 on defense. They still have some talent but it's really tough to say how good they will be this year.
Purdue is the B1Gs version of loluva. Marshall lost 75% of their offensive yards and weapons from last year and managed to beat lolPurdue. If they bring what they had Sunday to our game, we will win. Their coach looked lost most of the game too; just another thing in common with loluva.
I wouldnt go so far as to say ice cold, since he was in on some wildcat plays throughout the first half
Motley is not a Power Five QB IMO.
I tend to agree. Would rather play Lawson, who is a Power 5 QB but probably doesn't know his ass from veer at this point.
So basically you're saying Lawson's not close to a Power 5 QB right now, but play him in the hope that he miraculously becomes one overnight?
Sure, he'll get better. Experience is a great educator.
"Good" experience is a great educator.
Like Furman. And Purdue.
I'm not saying its the way to go, but it would be justified. Motley and Lawson are fairly close to each other now, but Lawson has upside. Maybe Motley is a lot better than Lawson is, I don't know. Then go with him.
"Motley and Lawson are fairly close to each other right now..."
Says who?
From what I saw of the play calling for Motley last night, the coaches were in utter fear of Motley getting injured. They didn't utilize his strengths because that would have put him in harm's way. That says to me that neither Durkin or Lawson is capable of much more than a basic package or two right now. One or both is going to get a crash course starting today...
It says to me as soon as Brewer went down, they stopped giving a shit about the results of a non-conference game and tried to get out of it without anyone else taking so much as a papercut. I think the QB conversation started in earnest today.
Exactly.
it didn't help matters that Motley wasn't make the correct reads on the jet sweep version of the inverted veer. He was run all the way or hand off all the way pre-snap and didn't read the DE or execute the fake properly.
I'm concerned about the running game suffering due to defenses loading the box because they don't respect the pass threat from Motley. Your thoughts on that, French?
Until any of the three prove themselves as QBs that will make the correct read and get the ball outside quickly and accurately, teams will load the box against all three of them.
I attended both fall scrimmages - they are not anywhere close.
I would love to see Lawson on the field, but the chances of him making a really bad play or an exceptional one are about 50/50 right now. Motley may not have the ceiling, but I think he has to be the choice right now. Let him iron out the kinks against Furman and Purdue.
I want Lawson to play and be electric, but I think he needs some time in the playbook and to understand how to be a college football player. A couple of plays in the scrimmages made me shake my head based on effort alone, which is not acceptable IMO.
Yep. And bad experience is a bad educator.
This is the second time he has done this. He should prepare better.
EDIT: Not Motley the second time but Loeffler. He should prepare them better.
Huh??
They may be referring to Leal in the Sun Bowl.
A surprising number of Hokie fans have morphed Leal and motley into the same guy and have only remembered the bad parts of both.
No I didn't mean Leal from the Sun bowl...I felt that Motley doesn't really look good in the passing game at all. Always looks rattled, even within his limited success last year. I do however feel that Scott Loffler doesn't do a good job preparing the backup for game action.
Part of this is Loeffler's game planning for Motley was totally different than Brewer and he couldn't risk that playing style anymore so the game plan was screwed up. That just happens but...Motley still should have been throwing a little better than that. His performance didn't look far off from Mark Leal's debacle from the Sun Bowl...
Backups coming in for the injured starter and not excelling is the rule, not the exception.
Motley =\= Leal fyi
It's more common than we thought...
For all his flaws the other night, Motley was still appreciably better than Leal against a much better team.
I agree, osu is the unanimous #1 team in the country and I'm sure motley didn't think he would see the field. He was thrown in the fire against the defending natl champs, that's a tough deal for any backup qb, durkin wouldn't have done any better. Motley is an athlete, he just confidence and Furman may be just what the dr ordered, give the guy a chance.
Motley was rotated in throughout the first half....
He knew he would be seeing the field last night. This is what concerns me most. He knew he was going to be in eventually, but didn't seem ready at all when it actually happened.
Depends on what plays he was anticipating. They may have only had 10 plays for him to play from the wild turkey, but once he had to come in permanently, that required opening the play book up more, and thats where he lost it.
Your guess is as good as everybody's on Durkin. We'll find out really soon...
I'd feel very safe putting money on Durkin getting snaps vs Furman, akin to Motley getting snaps before Brewer went down.
Aren't the mostly the same player though? Serious question. Haven't seen Durkin play. He's more like a Tebow, correct?
I love Durkin as a runner. However, will he be decisive and get the ball out quickly to the right guy? To me, that is the big question mark with all three options (Motley, Durkin, and Lawson)
The critical component of Loeffler's offense is the short/med pass game. Whoever of the three can quickly, and accurately put the ball in a small window should be the guy. Motley to me is the best choice of the three. Durkin can't throw, and Lawson is probably still having trouble with his 1st read right now, much less his 2nd/3rd... being that he was playing at the HS homecoming game this time last year.
Beamer wanted to redshirt Tyrod , then LSU happened. The coaching staff should get all 3 guys prepared and find out who's the QB of the future. Brewer is a senior anyway and I want VT to win the Battle of Bristol .
You still have to decide who gets first team reps. And splitting them three ways is a mistake. I think at this point Motley gets a lot of the first team reps, Durkin gets the rest. A 4-6 week return for Brewer means what we're looking for is a stopgap, not a season-saver. We play both against Furman and see who passes the eye test against FCS competition. If they both fail to do anything against a lower division opponent, then you think about pulling the redshirt and taking our lumps with a true freshman in preparation for a 2016 run.
If you pull the shirt, you do it against Furman where he has the best chance to be successful. If they don't do it then, then I expect they will try to stay afloat with Motley/Durkin.
How are we even sure Brewer will even come back. I know 4-6 weeks but I doubt he starts rehab right away. Look how long it took Trey to get back from his.
This is true, sadly, we never know for certain a player will come back from an injury.
I agree, 4-6 weeks is optimistic. I would say 8-10 weeks is more in line with reality.
I just don't think they go into the short week prepared to pull the redshirt. At least not until after Brewer is through surgery and we have some idea of his prognosis. By that point, it's Wednesday with the game on Saturday.
If they're pulling the redshirt, I think Lawson's the starter from here on out regardless of Brewer's return timeframe. And I don't think the coaches are ready to pull that trigger on a short week.
Disagree. Even with taking Beamer's age/career out of the equation, I don't see how you can let Hodges/Ford/Phillips/Malleck squander an entire year of eligibility.
If Lawson is being redshirted, then I would say go ahead and redshirt Ford, Phillips, Shai, and just about everyone else that can be at this point. That's obviously not going to happen but I wouldn't expect Brewer to return later on. Goforth has already moved 4-6 weeks to 8-weeks, and even if that number doesn't keep going up, he couldn't start right away.
If you're going to play Lawson, I agree with French that you do it right away. He can have some success against Furman and should be able to get a run game going the next few weeks with the OL play. Sidenote: Nijman proved a LOT of people wrong. He is going to be a stud at LT.
It's going to be an open QB battle from this point. If Lawson is even close to the same level as Durkin or Motley you play him because he has the upside.
8 weeks? Pull it. Pull the redshirt now. Like go into his dorm room before he goes to sleep tonight and pull it out of the closet and make him watch as it burns to cinders. (PS, yes, I know there's not actually a red shirt involved.)
8 weeks has him back for the Techmo Bowl, with five ACC games behind us. The season could be lost at that point.
Yup. Gotta do it. Bitter pill but gotta swallow it. Apply for a sixth year of eligibility for Brewer and go all-in with Lawson.
+1 for Techmo Bowl usage
and I totally agree
But if Lawson is the QB for our future, why have Brewer apply for a 6th year to be a backup. I mean if that's what he wanted to do by all means. But I don't see him applying for a 6th year if the coaches say "we're playing lawson and he's the QB for the foreseeable future."
Brewer can't get a 6th year so it's null issue.
And If Lawson lives up to the hype, won't be here his Senior year. Might as well play him and get three years instead of two (ref Mike Vick).
Unless Beamer retires and we get a brilliant offensive-minded coach, I don't ever see another VT quarterback leaving early to the NFL. Michael Vick was a special special talent.
Marcus left early and went to the NFL...
True, but not necessarily because he was going to be a high draft pick.
well....define "high"
And on the drums tonight, young Severus Snape.
Yeah, when I said that, I was certain Brewer had taken a medical hardship waiver for his back injury at TT. Turns out I was wrong.
Big Durk says leave that shirt on
Does Big Durk say why?
Big Durk is starting at QB next week. When the NCAA comes and says "you don't have any remaining eligibility" he'll ask to see their tickets to the gun show and promptly remove them from the premises for not having tickets to the gun show.
Haha! that is awesome. Made my day
BIG DURK! I hope he makes the Purdue game. I gotta hang with Big Durk.
I'm transfixed on the relative size of his legs to his arms in the picture. Can't help but compare to this.
Never skip leg day.
I'm just going off memory here, but I seem to remember that it was assumed Tyrod would play at some point in the 2007 season and Frank was just waiting for when the team needed a spark. 2008 is when there was an actual plan to redshirt Tyrod and then ECU happened.
That's not at all what I remember.
I just remember the cheers of "Ty-Rod Tay-Lor" from the stands when we struggled in the opener against ECU and knowing there was no chance in hell of TT geting a redshirt that year. I also thought it was cute they tried to say they'd redshirt him the next year.
Lol shit... the Ty-rod Tay-lor chants were loud and proud in the MARTA station after the 2006 Chik Fil A Bowl against Georgia. And Tyrod wasn't even on the roster, yet.
That is both sad and awesome.
The worst part is that he was such a bad passer in 08 we would have probably achieved the same record with Glennon because he wasn't going to be worse throwing the ball. They should have stuck to their guns and looked at the future instead of the immediate returns.
Here's what I remember:
Tyrod was a true freshman in 2007 when we played LSU and were already getting blown away in the first quarter. Tyrod came in and played against (what would probably be) the best defense he'd see in his entire college career and traded starting duties with Sean Glennon for two years hence.
When he was the go-to guy in 2009, after Glennon graduated, he became one of my favorite quarterbacks in Hokie lore and was undeniably awesome for us. (Note: I remember the plan to redshirt Tyrod in '08)
I do not fear putting all our QBs one the field in some capacity this year.
I just hope that the coaches have a starter set in stone by Purdue. Scot Loeffler is smart enough to understand that quarterback shuffling is usually not ideal in an offense's success.
I agree with the coaches decision to not burn the redshirt against aOSU. It was the right call, throwing him to the wolves would probably have done more harm than good.
That said, they have a week to really evaluate Motley, Durkin and yes Lawson.
Then they have to look at if we can do okay over the next 4-5 weeks with Motley and Durkin or do they need to burn the redshirt to stay competitive. I hope we can keep the redshirt.
I know Beamer has already said Durkin will get some reps this week and that he's "eager to see" Lawson, and I don't think you should have more than 2 Qb's splitting reps on a short week.
The staff should have seen enough of Motley by now in his several years with the program that I'm not quite sure what 3 more practices would add honestly....
Lawson and Durkin should split reps. If neither is better than Motley then just buckle in and pray we make it to a bowl game.
If Lawson is close to Motley then you play the god damn kid. With time he can get better
Key difference-> Lawson killed it in Tampa with a spread look.. Motley ran Wing T option.
Any thought of Lawson starting any time soon is way premature. If Lawson was even remotely close to Motley, you wouldn't have seen the extremely cautious play calling with Motley last night. IMO, Loeffler clearly knows there is a massive gap between Motley and Durkin/Lawson and he was simply trying to keep Motley alive for week 2 and beyond because he can still win a bunch of games with Motley.
The most important thing now is to get a new #2 (either Durkin or Lawson) prepared enough to come into a game so they can take the kid gloves off an injury-prone Motley.
I feel bad for coach Lefty. He can't catch a break.
I've broken a collarbone. A lot is going to depend on how bad, where, and if its a full break. I marched in a drum corps world championship 6 weeks after I broke mine, I cannot imagine playing football. I'm not optimistic about him at all. I'm confident the QB room is going to be hot this week.
Sigh - that's about all I've got... Sigh. Im not going to hinge my week on a game, I had a blast tailgating and spending the afternoon in the Burg. The stadium was rocking, and looking back I got to see a very good OSU team play. That spin move was ridiculous, I hate you so much Braxton Miller....
Agree with you here. I broke my collar bone playing football and it was basically like someone just broke it in half. That's what I feel happened to Brewer just the way he got up and was holding it. I didn't play again that year, however I didn't have physical therapy to work on it and I was 15 so we'll see. But it won't surprise me if we don't see him the rest of the year.
I almost broke my collar bone from just watching the Braxton Miller spin move.
You marched DCI? Word! What corps? I work for YEA / The Cadets!
Yeah, cav's and crown. I broke my collarbone in 05 marching with Carolina gold (bass drum). My tech that year was the bottom bass for cadets in '00.
Small world huh?
serious question for anyone with better rulebook knowledge on waivers. Can Brewer get a medical hardship waiver for this season?
Follow-up to that, say Lawson gets the nod and by end of season is actually doing really well. Does Brewer come back or does Lawson stay in?
If he didn't get a medical waiver at TT then my understanding is yes. However I think he got one at TT for his back.
I think Brewer took a redshirt at TT. So a medical hardship waiver is out. He would have to apply for an exemption to get a sixth year of eligibility. That only happens if he's done for the season. And if he is, I think there's a real chance he gets it, only playing one half of football.
I think if we are doing okay by the time Brewer is cleared, you go for the sixth year. No guarantees it's granted; the NCAA doesn't award a lot of sixth years. But with Brewer's situation I think they might. Then you look at the possibility of Brewer and Lawson both being available next year.
exemption. thanks that's what i was looking for.
it definitely would be an intriguing situation for next year.
A super senior Brewer and either a r-Fr or So Lawson depending on how this year shakes out? Yes, please.
No. He is technically eligible for it (http://www.athletics.vt.edu/compliance/competition/seasons.html), but it's really rare for someone to get a sixth year. It generally requires proving two years of injury incapacitation. Brewer's back issues at TT with his back, pulled him from some games, and got him replaced, but didn't really incapacitate him, so the board is unlikely to grant the request...
Burn the redshirt. The future is now and it's got Lawson's name on it.
Burn the shirt, and go all in on Lawson. If he's as good as advertised, he needs to play and start against Furman. We cannot afford to waste a year of the talent we have at WR and TE when we have the potential we have. Burn it and work your balls off on the recruiting trail to ensure we are legitimately able to go next man up in situations during games like that going forward.
Time to burn the shirt. Lawson is the most talented QB on the roster by far with Brewer out.
Their is a reason Lawson was behind Motley on the depth chart. In the fall scrimmages it was clear Brewer > Motley> Lawson.
Burn the shirt, we have too much talent right now. And if the kid is as good as marketed whose to say he stays for a redshirt senior year anyway?
I don't think the coaches will do this however.
Beamer is too old school too not give Motley a chance against Furmam, and he deserves it. But... Struggle in the first half and I think we see Lawson strut it out there
We should see both Motley and Durkin most likely in the first half.
If Lawson is as good as they say his is, he won't stay four years anyhow. Use him before we lose him.
If Joshua Jackson continues to impress like he is, it might not matter if Lawson goes pro early.
Forgot about Jackson! Yes!
Am I missing something?
Wasn't Brewer and Motley in a QB battle for the starting job in the Spring?
They were tied on the depth chart the whole Spring.
Didn't Brewer just come off a season where he threw 15 interceptions (had 5 games with less than a 35 QBR), and our excuse was that he hadn't been in the offense long enough to know the system... but now everyone is calling for Lawson?
We have to give Motley a chance IMO, then see where we are after a couple games.
I don't think you can judge him by his performance last night.
While there's certainly an insane amount of hype going on here, the fact is that Lawson is a QB that had offers from OSU and FSU. Just look at that trio that OSU marched out last night and it's pretty easy to understand why people would think that we should go straight for the guy that they possibly intended to have compete with Barrett next year. Coming out of high school, both were very similarly ranked by ESPN (Barrett 82, Lawson 81).
I'm not trying to predict anything here. Just pointing out why people are so high on him.
The depth chart may have said that, but there was no real battle.
I think Brewer will get some coaching experience in the next few weeks. I definitely could see him make a career out of it, one day.
in my opinion, none of our available options can make all throws and throw in the timing factor and that really makes it even more difficult. I think SL said let's rally around Motley and I think that's the direction that the staff is going. Furman is a good game to have.
He wouldn't have said that if his mind wasn't already clearly made up.
I hear you, but that statement was made immediately following the game, in a press conference where he was looking pretty emotional. That could change after he sits down with CFB and the rest of the offensive coaching staff and discuss in more detail. Emphasis on could...
A lot of what Lefty was saying sounded to me like he was trying to talk himself into believing it. This obviously crushed Lefty, and understandably so. He had a returning QB for the first time in his career as an OC, and by all appearances, Brewer had made mad strides. Lefty thought he was going to get to run his offense with a QB who knew it and could make the throws. To have that taken away with the career Lefty's had, that's gotta be a punch to the stones.
Today's a new day. Sober reality has replaced the shock of last night. Lefty's got another season ahead of him of trying to bring along a QB on the fly. My guess is he will look at all his options, pick the one he feels gives him the best chance to field a competitive offense, and roll with it.
Given the situation, I think the best option is to give 1st team reps to Durkin or Lawson all week and whoever can throw it best gets the job. Like others have said, I don't think Motley is Power 5 conference QB with what I've seen of him in practices and limited games. He's as good as he's going to get imo which isn't good enough. Maybe Motley is a capable passer but I just find it odd that the coaches would be holding him back on purpose the last couple of years with the play calls they've used him with. That tells me he doesn't really have it, they were just using his specific skillset (his feet) to shake things up. Basically, we're just going to have to toss a young kid out there (Durkin/ Lawson) and hope the talent around him can bolster things similar to how Boykin and Coale helped out Logan Thomas a ton his first year. It's a really tough situation with no real answer. We're just going to have to pick one of three mystery options and hope it hits.
Boykin and Coalesce helped out LT in his 1st year as a starter, but it was his THIRD year as a college QB. There's a huge difference between r-So Logan Thomas and true Frosh Dwayne Lawson with basically no reps with the first team to date.
When in the history of VT Football has the backup qb been given the opportunity to use the entire playbook? We haven't exactly been putting opponents away early with any regularity for a long long time.
How much real time last year did Motley have an opportunity to play, much less pass?
Come on guys -- you may be completely right and Motley is worse than just a game manager under center, but the sample size right now just isn't there to support the claim.
True about LT's status with the team but he was still very very raw as QB prospect at that time. I can't imagine Lawson is that far off.
As for the playbook situation with Motley, its not just the OSU game I'm referring to. The coach speak seems to imply they only have certain types of plays in mind for him period, different from what SL wants to do. And sample size is small, sure. But so what. Its CFB. Sample size isn't always available, especially in situations like this. If you wait for good sample size, your season is already over
Brewer was no/ little threat at all in the read option game so at this point I'd say we go heavy read option/ speed option- hell with Sam Rogers go triple option from the I. Whatever it takes to move the football. Motley, Durkin then... Travon McMillan. Dude was a really good qb- throws a pretty ball and would work in a pinch or as a wildcat change-up. If Lawson is not ready that's just where we are.
I definitely think we're going to see some different things (that play to his strengths) in the coming weeks for Motley than we saw last night.
Don't forget, Motley got thrown in against on of the top Ds in college football with a game plan that wasn't designed for him, and no margin for error injury-wise.
I don't think he's an all-conference QB (even though he got a pre-season player of the year vote in 2014). But with a game plan designed for him against a more typical college D, I think he can be an adequate QB - and certainly better than he appeared last night.
Damn, I can't believe we are at this point...One of those options has to work.
The Durk... hope he can hold out. Still would like to see this is in a game... (go to 20 second mark)
https://www.youtube.com/watch?v=5SaB4TEjk-4
Just watched...go Durkin!
It so crazy how yesterday morning our season outlook was so bright but one injury and an embarrassing display by a three year backup has diminished all hopes for a positive season. **Debbie Downer**
On a brighter note: I think if we can get beyond the fascination with Motley and see him for what he is as a player you can't trust and find a gamer. Maybe not as experienced as Motley but with upside, lets get him experience. I think if given the shot against these next couple games Durkin and or Lawson could gain experience and save this season.
Hey guys, I too am very distraught about the showing we had last night. Nevertheless, I absolutely admired the dog our guys showed. Motley should be fine, Lefty will definitely have to tweak his playbook for the guy. Add more pass conepts with the read option look. Will definitely keep defenses more honest. Im no expert at playcalling but the Motley package could be put together better. Just saying. I do believe in Leftys playcalling, Very heady guy. From what I seen last night, Motley was prepared to spell Brewer. To spell is all. Not to be the next man up. With all that said Im excited for our hokies to come and the remainder of this season. I love my hokies and HOKIENATION!
IF Lawson isn't going to redshirt, play him, no need for him just to sit on his ass and not get the experience for this year, next year, and next. Motley is never going to cut it, and I don't think Durkin is ever going to see much playing time as our starting QB. Lawson doesn't have to start right away, but get him enough reps to give him the experience to give him the feel of the game.
Durkin...after researching a bit. Lawson would be lost. Motley will still be change of pace guy.
I wonder how Andrew Ford feels right now...Durkin looks like the second coming of Tebow.
Play Lawson!
some would say that Durkin is a TE....and will be very soon....