What a difference a week makes.
Just seven days ago, Virginia Tech broke 50 in one of the most complete wins the team has seen in years. Today the same squad traveled to Greenville and stubbed their toe in all three phases of the game, losing 28-35 to East Carolina.
After capitalizing quickly on two Pirate turnovers, the Hokies looked like they would carry last week's success against Purdue into Dowdy-Ficklen Stadium. But then, they subsequently allowed four straight touchdowns and couldn't muster a comeback, dropping their second straight game to Ruffin McNeill's squad.
In the discourse that follows over the next day or so, there'll be a lot said about the questionable (at best) officiating that seemed to kill Tech. While both numbers (18 penalties for 186 yards between the two teams) and eyes confirm the zebras' abysmal day, don't let it distract from the fundamental problems that haunted Frank Beamer's program.
The defense was without star corner Kendall Fuller, but the unit's woes went much deeper than that. James Summers, listed as the second quarterback on the Pirates' depth chart, gashed the Hokies with both his legs and his arm, totaling 279 yards and three touchdowns. Summers seemed unstoppable all night, converting back-breaking third downs and slicing through Bud Foster's defense with ease.
While there were a few flags thrown that drew the ire of Hokie Nation (Chuck Clark's phantom pass interference and Sean Huelskamp's ejection probably being the top vote getters), many others were just as crippling. Tech littered the field with false starts, holds and other lapses that created problems on both sides of the ball. Mental errors from players in orange helmets seemed to come like clockwork, and they either kept a Pirate drive afloat or sank their own.
This was a game that deserved the weather it was played in, a monsoon-like slop which drenched all of the stadium's inhabitants. The Hokies committed penalties — each one seemingly more devastating than the last — they turned the ball over, missed a field goal and even snapped a ball that sailed over the head of punter A.J. Hughes. No unit looked good, and it showed in the final result.
The home team, on the other hand, did everything it needed to do after its first two possessions. After giving up a quick 14 points the Pirates regrouped everywhere, beating Tech on offense, defense and special teams. They weren't perfect by any stretch of the imagination, but they capitalized on their opponent's mistakes.
On the flip side, the Hokies could do no such thing. Multiple times they received the ball with good field position after an ECU miscue, and could rarely take advantage. A kickoff out of bounds eventually lead to a Joey Slye miss from 37 yards. A drive beginning at the 40 after a Pirate personal foul ended with a Jonathan McLaughlin false start on fourth-and-one and a subsequent punt.
Brenden Motley was still effective, but showed limitations in the passing game. By the second quarter it was clear that Scot Loeffler blew the dust off the entire Logan Thomas playbook, including the part where the signal caller doubles as the primary ball carrier. Motley ran 19 times for 85 yards and a score, and was by far the team's most effective weapon.
The rest of the running game struggled, as J.C. Coleman, Trey Edmunds and Sam Rogers combined for 16 carries and 30 yards. Travon McMillian gained just as many yards as his counterparts on just five attempts, another annoyingly limited role for the back that has shown more explosion than anyone else at the position.
This game proved two things: the first is that Purdue is much worse than many of us thought (their loss to Bowling Green Saturday proved just that). Secondly, this Virginia Tech team is still further away than most of us wanted to admit. Injuries have forced young players into bigger roles, and they were exposed. Greg Stroman and Mook Reynolds lost their men on a number of different occasions, Huelskamp had 10 tackles but still frequently struggled to bring down Summers in the open field.
The most concerning problems, however, didn't come from the freshmen. They were the offensive line penalties, the bevy of missed tackles, yet another field goal sent wide. These were all from veterans who are consistently counted on to produce, not add to the headaches of both coaches and fans.
All's not lost, but this was a brutal outcome in the Hokies' first major test since Ohio State. Next week Tech returns home to kick off ACC play against Pittsburgh, a giant game against a program that's been similarly underwhelming.
I'm sure this wasn't where the coaching staff wanted to be heading into the conference slate, coming off a disappointing loss with injuries to their two most important players (Kendall Fuller and Michael Brewer). But here we all are.
Will this loss send them into a spiral that ends in another mediocre season, or will it be a rallying cry? A turning point that propels a young team towards the ceiling of their potential?
Neither question can be answered now, but one thing's for certain. If the mistakes aren't cleaned up, things could get dark in Blacksburg.
Comments
:(
We have won our last game this year
Seems a little bit...negative.
You know, I'm not completely bummed about this. The weather was shit and acc hasn't started yet. I believe we can still win this division. On to pitt!
OH Joy the LT playbook!!!!!!!!!!!!
I can put up over 600 yards of offense pretty easily in NCAA with LT3 and company. Its a lifelike simulation...right?
It's what the situation called for, and was nearly enough to lead a comeback. I don't look for it to be a trend.
Maybe it's just me, but it seems like a really predictable playbook.
Perhaps, but It allowed Motley to pass for 221 yards in the second half. We had twice the yardage in the second half as we did in the first. Lefty found a way to move the ball when nothing was working in the first half.
I agree. I also think the offense was adequate today. 28 points should have been enough.
Especially in a heavy rain.
Big breakdowns by the defense (or defensive plan.)
I think this quote was brought out in one of the other threads. This thought pattern is pretty troubling to me.
I need to hear that quote in context. There's two ways to look at it. Either Frank is trying to salvage the sense that we still have most of our goals attainable (except making the playoffs) or he honestly feels that way all the time. I'm guessing the lead up to that quote will tell which it is. I personally hope for the former.
He's always said shit like this. There's no context necessary.
Either way it's still troubling. I think it just shows how far we have fallen as a program that just having a shot to compete for a conference title is the best we can do.
I didn't like FB's comments at halftime. His body language and energy were lacking. His final comment was something like "this an awfully tough place to come and win a football game." It was as if he had no expectation that we were going to come back and pull out a "W".
This mentality is why change is needed.
I won't comment on a quote without context. I saw poor half time interview responses from CFB again. Our young O-line needs Searels on the sidelines. This is year 3 and All coaches (and their sons) need to be evaluated.
What happened with Searels again? I missed it when the ESPN guys were talking about it....
Back surgery or injury or something with his back.
So Stinespring was on the sidelines in his place, and Brewer was in Stinespring's seat in the booth.
This coaching staff & players have shown no inclination they will be able to clean up the silly penalties ( 33 past 3 games), tackle a mobile qb ( after 4 years) , consistently kick a short field goal ,find a running game (4yrs) or a running back rotation that works. It may not be dark yet in Blacksburg but after today it looks like twilight. Will continue to support this team but unless improvement is made this team will be fortunate to make the pinstripe bowl. Also today's silly comments about occ games being meaningless by Beamer is discouraging, frustrating & not indicative of a winning attitude.
The thing that gets me the most is the penalties. I know the coaches are probably yelling at them about it day in day out but we had the same problem with it last year. For a program that has always been heavily disciplined in the past, this makes me nervous and is a sure sign that things are slipping faster than we think.
Easily dismissing a loss to a bad ECU team should be enough of a sign, tired of making excuses
No excuses. Either you can go whip a subpar team or you are the subpar team getting whipped. I didn't see enough fire either. I'd like to see Lawson get some action, this has 6-6 written all over it again. The only way to progress is "wait till next year". I'd also like to see Settle. The downside of having a lot of undersized quick defensive lineman and undersized linebackers is huge running lanes in the middle for quarterbacks. I think we need to rethink our philosophy
How many years now have we been waiting until next year? I Agree we have no reason to be the team to be favorites leading into these games. Other than stopping the run up the middle I'm not sure what our defense has done.
Stopping the run up the middle? I'm sure ECUs QB had a 50 yard TD run right up the middle and Ezekiel Elliott had an 80 yard TD also
You want to see Lawson after a game where Motley threw for 280 and ran for 80? The last thing we need is a manufactured QB controversy. Motley is holding down the fort u til Brewer returns.
Coach Beamer brought Tech football from nowhere to somewhere. Now it looks like he is taking the program back to nowhere. Excuses are running out. Don't want a bad end for the best coach Tech has ever had but I think that bus may have already pulled into the station. I hope I'm wrong.
Bowden.
WHAT THE FUCKING FUCK?!?? How the hell did we lose this game? They gave us 14 FUCKING points and we still lost?!? Maybe I've had too much to drink (VERY LIKELY), and the officiating was some of the WORST I've ever seen, but still I had very few worries coming into this game. They couldn't run the ball, and DBU wouldn't allow them to pass..Guess what?!! They did BOTH!! I don't usually post negative stuff,,, but right now dunk and at 11pm I'm done (I'll likely be better tomorrow) I'm wondering why I let my heart get ripped out again and again by a team that will never be more than an afterthought. Yeah, we went to the championship game 16 years ago, but it took two great players to do it. Who here honestly thinks we're anywhere close to being an annual contender?? Not me.
I'll admit when I saw 16 years ago I checked the year and did the math, thanks for the sads
Yeah, it was closer to the beginning of his career than it is to now...
God this team makes me crazy. It's hours after the loss and I'm still fuming, with my wife asking what's wrong. It was f*ing ECU. And we lost in a bad fashion. I can't take this....
I'm in the same boat
You didn't marry a Buckeye. I've been hearing it since September 7th.
Yep. I'm engaged to one, too.
I mean this with all due respect. It might be time to step away for a while. When a loss is negatively impacting your marriage, even for one day, I think you might have too much emotional investment. It isn't worth letting the lows bring you down this hard. It's isn't emotionally healthy.
I've shared this anecdote before, but it may be a good time to mention it again, especially with everything I've seen across multiple threads, Twitter, etc.
At the end of the Boise game in 2010, when the clock struck zero, I was so pissed that I kicked closed our patio door so hard that it slammed and rattled, sending one dog fleeing the room and the other hiding in her crate for fear that I was mad at her for some reason. My wife asked me, "what the fuck is wrong with you?" and stormed out of the room. We had a talk and I realized that I was letting my emotions go overboard, to the point that it was affecting my relationship with people (and pets) around me. I had to look hard at how I responded to things. My wife is as die-hard a Hokie as I am, but she made me look rationally at myself.
Am I upset with losses? Yes. Was I fuming at the officials, the penalties, the missed tackles yesterday? Yes. But the other thing that our 2010 conversation made me realize was there is precisely squat that I can feel that isn't magnified by the guys on the field themselves. And that's perspective for me. I'm a fan, and I want my team to win. When I was in the stands, I felt like I could be a part of it, to an extent, with my noise, intensity, whatnot. But I still didn't actually lose the game myself. Those guys playing their asses off did. And I feel for them more than anything. They want to represent VT well, and they're doing everything they can to.
So after a loss, I back away for a bit. I don't fume and go nuts like I used to. If that's what you (collective you) need to do, sure, go for it. But take some time to do something you enjoy. After a loss, I no longer react such that I scare my dogs. I hang my head a bit, and if the weather is nice, I take them for a walk instead and think about other things. Or I live up to my username and play some music. It's made the last few years of watching football a bit more tolerable for me.
Well said VTGman. I too have to take a softer look at losses so they do not ruin your day, week or month. The dogs love you either way and I always say we may have lost the game but we have not lost a tailgate yet, so cheers and have another beer because life is too short.
I guess this didn't happen yet:
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JK: VT Tailgating is the best!
The other option is to go to your window, open it, and yell "I'm as mad as hell, and I'm not going to take it anymore!"
Wow. That's one of the most level headed things I've ever read in regards to sports fandom. Wish I could give you more than one leg. Thanks for that man!
This might be the best comment I have ever read on TKP.
Thanks for the kid words, much appreciated. However, let me assure you as frustrated as I get it will never impact my family (or dog or cat!). I married a terrific woman who gets me, and puts up with a lot of my crap - Tech temper tantrums included. So my therapy is going to VTPHREAK4EVR's web site and watching nothing but the good (no bad, no ugly). Here's some of my therapy (along w/ some alcohol): https://vtphreak4evr.wordpress.com/legends/
Who has Whit's email?? #neverplayECUagain!!
They're on the schedule at least 10 more years
I've changed my mind, and now believe they should have to play the rest of them.
Bud foster is a poor DC against mobile QBs. There I said it.
2013. We couldn't contain BC or Marylabd's QB and they ran all over us.
2014. ECU,BC. Couldn't contain the qb, lost.
2015. OSU and ECU. Same story.
We are going to lose to NC state and possibly a few more dual threat QB teams. Our defense is not a top 10 unit. Our pass offense is decent but our running game is pathetic with the rotation and our offense is undisciplined. Special teams was a mess today but was decent last game so too early to tell.
Officials were pathetic but did not lose us the game. I know some people will chalk this loss down to unfair calls but other than the PI none really resulted in a direct loss for us, so people shouldn't use it as a crutch.
Yet another game we were outplayed and outcoached. This is not going to change while we have the same head coaching staff. It's been 3 years of the same shit though so I've become used to it sadly.
Our defense is barely a top 100 unit.
good god that's a tragic reality so far.
Our rushing offense is 42nd in the nation at 205.75 ypg, and our running backs are averaging 5.0 yards per carry after the loss to ECU.
Yea, but Motley was all of it this past Saturday. That wore him out. The play calls and performance for the remainder of our RBs disturb me. Some of that has to be on the OL as well.
Wait, this all sounds way too familiar.
Sigh.......
Yeah, Motley carried the team Saturday, no doubt. The running backs could not get it going.
Thus far, Saturday marks the aberration to the typical running back performance this season. Whether it was a hiccup or the signal of a coming trend remains to be seen. Our performance against Pitt's 15th ranked rushing defense will tell us a lot about where the running backs are, and the ground game in general.
There always seems to be a loss during a season that breaks our collective heart, and lets the wind out of our sails. I'll be honest, before the OSU game, I was drinking the kool-aid. "THIS is our season, THIS time we prove the doubters wrong and will be a national threat..." Unfortunately, ECU just popped that bubble. Heck, they not only popped the bubble, they blew the darn thing out of the water (think Blackbeard and cannons...).
For years now we have seen this team lose games it is SUPPOSED to win. We always underachieve. I'm sick of it. I'm sure the coaching staff is sick of it (although with comments and the way Beamer acts sometimes it's hard to tell). We are all scratching our collective heads right now...
I hate, hate, HATE to say this...it really does pain me deeply. But, I think it is time we all face the fact that 1. We are no longer a powerhouse team, and 2. Beamer needs to step down. There is no reason whatsoever for us to lose this very winnable game. It's time we pump some new energy into the Burg, and I believe a new head coach is what we have do to...it really does pain me, as I love Coach Beamer, and don't want to see him go. However, we have LOADS of talent. We should NOT have lost this game. Michael Brewer is a phenomenal player yes, but I am maintaining that losing him is NOT the problem at this point. Just like the refs can't ultimately lose the game for us (Michigan 2011 being the exception...), I don't believe losing ONE player (two with Fuller out) can ultimately cost us this game. We knew our D has holes...
Anyways, end of this rant...I will cheer this team on to the death, let's stay faithful Hokie Nation. Remember, we ARE the best fanbase in the country. Let's give our beloved Hokies everything we can!!!
When Michael Brewer left the field we probably did not have enough talent left to beat OSU. They were better than us when Brewer was healthy, and losing him just left us with too little ammunition.
ECU is not OSU. We had more than enough talent on the field to win this game.
I do not disagree with you kind sir. I said that multiple times.
So replacing an all American with a freshman isn't supposed to have a drop off? Also I think everyone is severely underestimating the effects of weather on our offensive and defensive schemes.
I could care less about the weather, ECU played in the same slop better than we did. It's a variable we both had to contend with and amounts to nothing more than an excuse.
I certainly expect to see some sort of drop off. Makes me wonder why the coaching staff did not protect Stroman some by changing things up a little. I didn't get to see the game, but it sounds like he got targeted repeatedly in man coverage...and got beaten. At some point I would assume the coaches would figure this out and at least try something else, maybe some different coverage schemes or a different player? I'm not an X's and O's guy at all, but it clearly wasn't working.
This. The first time Stroman (or any player) was exposed maybe it was his fault. After that it's the coaches' responsibility to make an adjustment.
We lost to ECU because our defensive coaches failed. Since we beat Michigan in the Sugar Bowl our opponents' scores in our losses have been:
35 Pitt
27 Cincinnati
48 UNC
38 Clemson
30 Miami
28 FSU
35 Alabama
13 Duke
34 Boston College
27 Maryland
42 UCLA
28 ECU
27 GT
21 Pitt
30 Miami
33 Boston College
6 No, I don't remember that game either
42 OSU
35 ECU
By my count that's eight games where the defense gave up too many points to a good team, eight games where the defense gave up too many points to a not-so-good team, and three games where the defense held the line but the offense failed them.
I'm not disagreeing with you but I'm curious where your threshold is between the "defense giving up too many points" and "where the defense held the line but the offense failed them"
It certainly FEELS like the offense has failed the defense more than just 3 times in 19 games but maybe you're right. I definitely think that the defense has been a bigger problem this year than the offense. I think the offense has actually played quite admirably through 4 games in spite of a fairly shaky defense. I've said that multiple times here in the last couple of days, and it still feels really strange to say that. I'm in a parallel universe
With no research to back it up, it might feel that way because sometimes our defense has been put into a bad situation by the offense/STs. Asking a defense to clean up a mess so many times is also asking for disappointment.
Again, not saying that's definitely been the case but it could explain that.
I was looking only at final scores, not taking field position into account. If the defense is constantly defending short fields because the offense can't move the ball (or turns it over), the score looks like a defensive failure but the offense carries more of the blame.
I put that threshold between 21 and 27. If you want to quibble whether it's 18 or 32, it's OK with me. But the 6-3 loss I can't seem to remember and the 13-10 loss to Duke were aberrations. That's my point. If the defense gives up 13 points and the team loses, it's pretty hard to blame the defense. If they pitch a shutout and go to overtime (not that that could ever happen), it's hard to blame the defense. But a lot of our losses have been at least partly the result of giving up lots of points, sometimes to opponents who aren't that great.
thanks for clarifying. I'm pretty much on board with your sentiment but HokieBone12 brought up a good point with field position. There have been multiple times over the years where our defense has been put in a pretty tough spot by poor offense/STs play and it's hard to blame a defense for preventing a team from scoring when they start on the wrong side of the 50. I do think that our defense has been bad this year though.
Can we give up/get over the Michigan 2011 officiating? We shot ourselves in the foot in that game just like today. Even after that call was made we could have made the FG and stayed in the game.
NO!!! WE CAN'T, WON'T AND NEVER WILL BECAUSE IT HAS BEEN MORE THAN WELL-DOCUMENTED AND OBSERVED THAT THE REFS HAVE SYSTEMICALLY GIVEN OUR TEAM THE FUCKOVER UP THE ASS SINCE THE 90S (perhaps longer)!!! NOTHING HAS CHANGED OR BEEN DONE TO CHANGE IT!!! FUCK DAMMIT!!!
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I gave you a leg, too.
(Shrug) I'm over it. The call on the field was correct.
Time for an overhaul of the Coaching Staff.
The D was garbage..as much as I'd like to throw to blame on the offense as is normal VT fan behavior. This unit hasn't performed consistently at all this year, Fuller being out hurt, but the coaches didn't adjust when Stroman got exposed while filling in. Also we could not wrap and tackle...that disgusting effort that made it 35-21 at the time proved that. There is talent here, but something is missing.
Yeah Moe, that team sure did suck last night. They just plain sucked! I've seen teams suck before, but they were the suckiest bunch of sucks that ever sucked.
Homer!
Maybe I'm just not as emotional about these things as I used to be. I've probably seen enough losses to teams I thought we should beat that it just doesn't bother me as much anymore. The analysis on this site helps with that, because it makes me understand exactly how things went bad.
Maybe we should have seen this coming when Reavis was dismissed. Most of the defensive issues with this year's team are in the defensive backfield, because our All-American corner is more injured than the coaches want to admit (we've been around long enough to see through the coachspeak, haven't we?) and behind him it's mostly freshmen leading the way. Sure, mobile QBs hurt us, but a mobile QB on a team like ECU, which forces us into our nickel package (and forces our nickel corner into pass coverage) is a double whammy, because it takes away the OLB that would usually have QB contain. It's one thing to account for a running QB in the flexbone. It's another beast in the Air Raid.
Still sucks we lost, and we should have won. The offense should have put more than 28 on the board today. That stall when the monsoon hit in earnest was the killer. The missed field goal in the red zone, Motley getting intercepted deep in ECU territory, Bucky dropping a pass on 4th and 2, those were all the difference. Even with the miscues, though, I'll take the offense I saw today over what we saw down the stretch last year. I like being in a position to say the offense let us down by only scoring 28.
And as for all the rabble rousing over the Beamer quote, after 29 years do we honestly not know what we've got with this guy? There has always been some underlying animosity between Frank and the fanbase, and it almost always has taken the form of these poison soundbites, where Frank paints a picture of how we approach football that is about the exact opposite of what we want to hear. Frank has seemed out of touch with modern football basically since he took over this program, and I still maintain on some level, its an intentional jab by a man with a very patriarchal view of himself, toward a fanbase he views with some ambivalence over having the nerve to criticize him. It's like the kindly old grandfatherly fellow you wait on, a don't realize until you're about to go to bed that night that he was basically telling you to go fuck yourself the whole time.
Beamer honestly views non-conference games as tune-ups for conference play. In his mind, the conference championship is the primary objective, and the way you win a national championship is to not have any stumbles in your tune-ups. And if you disagree with his assessment, he invites you to go fuck yourself, just like he did today. We've all seen this before, haven't we?
Is it time for Beamer to step down? Yes. And he's about to. Haven't we already had conversations about how it seems like the AD has started the process of saying goodbye? We're not gonna be the program that fires our hall of fame coach when he's already in the process of stepping down. His retirement might just come a year earlier than the transition plan called for if this season turns bad.
I'm disappointed we lost, but it hasn't somehow crushed my hopes for this season. Duke helped us out big time today, and we have an offense that fucked up a lot on the way to putting 28 on the board. For once, we might finally have an O capable of carrying the defense on occasion. We'll probably need that, and Motley and co. came up short today. I really hope that sticks in their craw the rest of the way. This is either gonna be 2010 or 2003.
And in conclusion, fuck ECU. That is all.
The point you made about winning the conference being the #1 priority is right, from my historical understanding of how Beamer prepares for the year. On one hand, after a loss like the ones we have had already, that mentality helps because the team and fans can clearly say that our #1 goal is not only achievable but it is also perfectly intact.
However, and this is where I have big issue with Beamer - if your #1 goal has nothing to do with winning a national championship, why the heck is the team bothering to show up any way? It sends the wrong message to a lot of parties. I get the sequencing - you have a much higher probability of getting to a championship game by making sure you win your conference, but communicating itin this manner is not the way to go about your (Beamer's) business.
A point you make about over playing the nickel defense is interesting. Why not commit to stoping the run by RBs and the QB. Leave the OLB in and hammer the QB more; even blitz more. Yep you may give up a couple of big plays but you may also force more mistakes. I don't understand the logic of stopping the run first and then not committing to it.
It is definitely pick your poison. Bud certainly knows how to sell out to stop the run, and we did run the bear front against ECU. I think in general, when Kemp was in we were playing the extra corner, then when Summers came in and did his thing, we started trying to play the run. I just think Ruffin McNeil threw a wrinkle at us that Bud hadn't practiced against all week. Up until this game, Summers had played five snaps against Florida, and that's it. Look at all the write-ups for this game on here. I don't think any of the TKP staff even mentioned Summers. It reminds me of when Virginia tried to Trot out Vic Hall (?) as a QB against us a few years ago to catch us off guard, except this actually worked. We had practiced against the air raid all week, then ECU brings out a poor man's Cardale Jones. Kudos to McNeill for going against trend.
Bud didn't have a plan for Cardale Jones?
Seems VT just played OSU...
You have to understand, though, the defense carries a weeks' worth of impetus into a game based on what they practiced against the scout team offense. I guarantee you Bud had then running nickel in practice all week, because that's what we needed to play against the Air Raid. A sudden switch to the defense we played against OSU is jarring. Sure, the defense should know the packages, but this isn't pro ball. We have a lot of underclassmen on D and they had trouble flipping the switch from nickel to run stop. ECU found a wrinkle they could exploit and caught us flatfooted.
Bud stated in an interview during the week that he expected to face some option offense from ECU, he knew they had a running QB and expected to face him
Good lord that's nothing short of amazing. Until yesterday, Summers had played five snaps total in one game for ECU this season. The fact Bud anticipated it proves how damn good he is at scheming. Summers caught me completely off guard.
It caught me off guard also, especially the timing of it, Kemp had led them to 2 straight TD drives.. I thought it was a foolish move at the time
I thought it was because of whatever happened to Kemp's throwing hand.
I'm pretty sure that's it.
Really worked out for them, though.
Yeah. ECU and every single other team that torches our defense. It isn't a surprise wrinkle anymore.
Why can't our offense find a wrinkle and exploit it all game?
The issue is they found a 'wrinkle'. Singular.
So hard to grasp that 1 wrinkle throws Buds D into a tizzy.
You can't pull people out if coverage because their receivers catch every lame duck heaved into the secondary.
Some of those catches were ridiculous. Stroman didn't have a good day, but there were some catches against him that he had good position.
You know if I pay 10 bucks to see a movie and don't like it I get up and leave. I have been buy ing tickets to a bad movies for 4 years now.
I'm a long time lurker and just made an account after the OSU game so cut me some slack here. 1. the game should have been over in the first half 2. DBU? 3. I have always been a huge Stroman fan but he had a very forgettable game 4. Despite their qb scrambles our running D was lights out. As delusional as I am, and admittedly so, I still like this team and how the offense has grown. I've been a Tech fan since '03(the first season I was old enough to be invested) and I've seen the ups and downs. It kills me to see our defense become the weakness of this team( I may be intoxicated so don't call for my head just yet). I'll save the rest of my comments for tomorrow when I can actually make a strong point, but lord what a step back we had today. I have high hopes for what this program can be and where we're headed, but "next year" can't get here soon enough. I'm done, Go Hokies.
I would like to say I am surprised but it is $&$)(;. >>}~?#}{|>!! ECU. In reality we are no longer a powerhouse, we are a .500 team. Hopefully whit cleans house in '16, he has had pretty solid decision making thus far...
2016? Why wait?
I don't know about you guys, but I'm still not over this game. It's hard not to put the game squarely on Bud's shoulders, but if you take away the 14 points basically spotted to us, then this game's 35-14. That shows a failure in both units. I'll give a pass to Motley because of the conditions, and that ball was so slippery that even Malleck dropped a pass. Sure, the passing game is not where it needs to be, but right now I think it's the least of our worries. The run-game is absolutely pathetic, and it will continue to be unless we run #34. Once again Lefty doesn't have the talent to properly execute his system, which is why we need one of two things to run a successful offense 1) Recruiting, or 2) Some form of the Spread or gimmick offense where you don't NEED 4 and 5 star guys just to get on the board. The same coaching staff will not be here in 2017, and I'm not even sure they'll be here in 2016.
Does anyone else think this may be Bud's last year in Blacksburg? This is one of the worst defenses we've had in 10 years, and it's becoming clear that he isn't being seriously considered for the next HC job. On top of that there won't be any Fuller's left. I think it's probably in his best interest to leave next year, and would have a hard time believing he doesn't see it too.
Idk, 2010 was nerve racking to watch
I'm not convinced of this. Athletic department is going out of their way to market the Lunchpail like never before. I interpret this as a sign of things to come.
Is this sarcastic? I really hope so.
Bar1990. It's sarcasm about Fuller, but not about it being in Bud's best interest to leave. Next year is Beamer's last no matter how you look at it. Bud has only seen a decline in defensive production over the past 5 seasons (including this one). Also despite what some say HE IS NOT GETTING THE HC JOB, I will put a pile of money on that. No Beamer, mediocre unit, and next to no chances of moving up the ladder. I'd say this year or next will be Bud's last in Blacksburg unless we get a HC that he wants to work with and make him the highest paid coordinator in cfb.
That is a very fair and accurate statement. No way the B2 is going to get the keys to this car and Bud will wait and see who comes in. I really believe Bud is ready to go fishing if things don't work out.
HELL AND FUCKING NO I AIN'T OVER THIS SHIT (see bottom post). But bar is correct in that the 2010 unit was not one of Foster's strongest. Also, even though I vehemently disagree with Beamer's post game comment I still don't think he should be shitballed but I do believe he needs to get chewed the fuck out verbally.
As far as the dumbass brainfuck decision to rotate the backs, I don't know if that is squarely Shane's, Scott's or both of their faults put together. But it NEEEDS TO FUCKING STOP LAST FUCKING YEAR!!!
OT, but Whit needs to discuss how Beamer and Bud address the media. I get what Beamer was trying to say, but it's offensive to fans (see Jack Crow's comment below). Bud's comments about Torrian this weekend, and his response the fine board were poorly advised. In a vacuum, none of these comments is that big of deal, but, like false start penalties, things like this add up, and change the appearance of the program.
cds7c was exactly right in this comment:
I don't think it's a complete failure on offense since they did capitalize on the two turnovers. It's not like either one was a pick-6.
But for once, the offense was getting screwed by the defense who couldn't get the other team off the field without letting them in the end zone.
The offense is slowly improving. I can't blame the weather because it rained for ECU and they had no problem with it. The more disheartening thing is the regression of the defense as a complete package. Stopping a RB no problem, stopping a running QB, huge problem for years. And the back side, our linebackers are slow and undersized and DBU (stop right here) they are a complete joke.
I just hope Frank knows that his time has passed. You can't let these coaches make that decision because they will feel that they can contribute and the next thing you have is a Bobby Bowden situation. So the bus may have pulled into the station and it maybe time for Frank to take a ride.
ECU had less of a problem with the rain because they had a run-based offense.
VT had no running game other than Motley keeping it.
I'm not sure I'd agree that ECU had a run-based offense, they passed down the field at will their first 2 scores... not to mention that Motley was used as our running/change of pace QB since last year, going with a run-based attack should have been easier for us than them
ECU only had 73 total yards rushing Navy AND Florida going into this game.
In THIS game, ECU had a run-based offense, with a different quarterback.
My, my can you believe that this is a FAN website? Do those folks out there think the coaches teach the players to go out and make mistakes? Sure, some may make the argument that we look ill-prepared, but I'm not sure if calling for coaching changes is warranted.
We are 4 games into a young season with many young inexperienced players in key positions. It's gonna look ugly but not as ugly as some of these comments. We are who we are and can still have a better season than last year. Progress takes time. Frank has been through the struggles before as has his staff. I would rather have those guys and their experience and temperament coaching up our young men instead of someone that might give good sound bites, but can't coach their way out of a wet paper bag.
We are not Bama, anOSU, or Oregon. We are Virginia Tech, and we can STILL win the ACC! Find a way to right the ship, clean things up a bit, and let's see where we are around New Year's. I can promise you, nothing will change before then anyway, so why bitch about it? And if you really love your Hokies, maybe you need to think of them in terms of marriage...."for better or worse, in sickness and in health". Time to turn the page. We lost, on to next week. Deal with it.
After last night, I think Oregon might be closer to us than you realize. They share quite a few things with us, including the lack of a national championship despite years of success otherwise.
OT, but I've always viewed Oregon as our 'Evil Twin' for lack of a better term. They have a suspect defense at best (like our typical offense), but (typically) have one of the strongest offenses in college football (we usually have a top tier defense). Both teams (more so VT) have struggled to break the glass ceiling that is the national championship.
I have heard several talking heads on ESECPN refer to them as the Virginia Tech of the West before, gave me a bit of a chuckle at the backhanded compliment...
Yes, thinking, reasonable fans, not blind homers. If you want that go become a da U fan. This is not one game, 3+ years of pathetic play starts to wear on even the most loyal fan base. Poor recruiticorning, inability to stop mobile qbs which is what most of college qbs are now and the inability to generate even a consistently mediocre offense tells me it's time for a change. That's my opinion and you are entitled to yours, I legged you for it, not sure why you got down voted.
While I agree with much of your comment, I wanted to bring this up:
Like a marriage, some times you need to have difficult discussions. I'm not in the Fire-Frank-Beamer camp (yet), but he owes the fans an apology for his post game comments. You don't tell fans who travel, spend time and money, and sit in the rain that the game was an 'exhibition'.
Every year, same excuses. 2012, people said this. Same with 2013. Same last year. 2015 was when everything was supposed to fall into place. We are NOT inexperienced. Not at all. EVERY team goes through cycles like these.
But if that's what you believe then so be it. We will continue to be a middle of the road ACC team until this mentality changes. We are Virginia Tech, used to be one of the most consistent programs in the country. Top 20 year in year out. No one here is expecting us to be Bama or FSU, but, you know, there is a tier under that we used to be in. That's what most of our fanbase expect us to be in, but nope, we're out of that since 2012.
This is Mid-2000s FSU all over again.
Part of being a fan is also knowing how to criticize your team. All of us here are fans who want our team to be BETTER. If that means removing Beamer there is nothing wrong with that. Changes need to be made somewhere, because whatever we are trying isn't working. You heard Beamer's comment, you can see his lack of fire, that isn't going to change.
Frank , I didn't travel from the NRV, 5 hour drive, sit the Rain and watch You play a game that doesn't matter to you because it's not a ACC Game . Man, That hurts !!! But I bet I quit doing going Now to these Games , since they don't count in your Mind.. 55 years a VT fan and Never Once did I think they Didn't matter, Do now. Thank You Frank .
I hate it for my team.
They went out yesterday and played hard and lost.
I credit ECU because they obviously played hard too and had a great plan and adjusted.
And I'm gonna say it, because its true: they were helped by some of the worst suck-ass officiating that I have ever seen.
Sometimes you lose, and we did.
On to Pitt and another challenge.
Go Hokies!
I was really pissed off that we lost this game. But......I knew a game like this was coming. Didn't we all? What hurts us and what will ultimately hurt every team in FBS but one this year is that there was a glimmer of hope to win it all. If we hung tight with OSU despite our second half struggles, couldn't we hang with anyone?
Looking across our schedule there isn't a team out there that we couldn't beat with a renewed offense. Unfortunately for me, the reality of college football is that some days your team is going to play like shit. Yesterday was that day for us and ECU brought enough to make us pay. While there is no team on our schedule for the remainder of the year who I think we shouldn't beat....they're all capable of doing the exact same thing to VT.
If this team continues to practice and prepare the way that the coaches have been talking about all off-season through now, we have a really good chance to win every week from here on out. I believe this is another lesson along the way in the 2015 season - valuable experience for our guys to carry with them not only through this year, but the next.
Time to step up!
100% agree with everything you said above, but I just wanted to bring up one thing
The penalties concern me the most, and make me question our preparation. I'm not sure how you 'coach away' these issues, but this does make me question how we practice.
Here, here!
It was a very winnable and forgettable game for us. I like the direction our offense is headed and should have put more points on the board (miss FG, TD called back, INT in red zone, missed TD pass to Rogers,etc). Lots of young guys on D in this game, and we'll get better. ECU had a great game plan and their receivers have hands of glue. Lots of luck went their way after the 1st qtr and they beat our ass, again. Lets move on.
This team lacks an identity. Unless jack of all trades master of none is the identity they a going for.
I'm sad.
I did something I've never done before yesterday. I killed the stream and never went back. I've gotten extremely angry in the past and turned off the game only to go back and watch again after a few minutes. Not this time, this time I just couldn't care enough to go back. Even if we'd engineered a comeback, I'd have still been disappointed.
I'm so disappointed in Bud's product for the past two seasons. Great D has always been my favorite aspect of football.
And it's a real shame since I've been so looking forward to the season. Now I feel like a six year old boy that was looking forward to his birthday and all he got was clothes. (Not the cool kind either.)
Me too. I am starting to have the same attitude as Frank, only for all the games not just OOC. 4-8 here we come......
FUCK DAMMIT! STILL lividly raged and pissed off! FUCK DAMMIT!!!
Please stop with these comments. Once is fine, everyone wants to vent, but 20,000 times over is noise, and worthless as far as starting or adding to the conversation goes.
Sidenote: have I actually used it 20k times???
There sure is a lot of hype coming out of BBurg about that exhibition game next year in Bristol. Hopefully we will have a new HC for that game.
ECU is a no good very bad team this year and they punked us badly. No excuse for the defense to get torched like that for a second year in a row against this team. Our defense is nowhere near as good as we thought they were this year. And really, it's been like this for a while now. Seems like we see complete defensive meltdowns annually right now and it's starting to look like the sum of the parts aren't as good as the talent should be.
I'll be honest, I'm really starting to wonder if Bud really should be our next coach and how good a team we would have. Seeing our defenses put out cap like this once or twice a year doesn't sit well with me.
You left out terrible and horrible.
Hey, that's us!
yeah that's me on the right. 3rd row
I'm not one to call for all the coaches to be fired after one loss in a downpour with injuries to our team. We have to realize we are not at the level of the OSUs of college football. Very few teams are. It is also very hard to go undefeated or even be a one loss team. There is usually only one MAYBE two teams that go undefeated any year and the rest of the 1 loss teams are in the top ten.
That being said, we still had a ton of chances to win this game as people have stated, the missed the throw to rogers that would have been six, bucky's score that was called back, the muffed punt that somehow wasn't a safety if it's a live ball (although that wouldn't have been enough to cover it would have given us the ball back) and few others that everyone knows about. And in the end we had the ball with a chance to drive to tie it up.
We DO have the ability to win the rest of the games. As stated above every team has a shitty day. Ours was today and we still had the chance to tie it up with the abysmal refs and poor play. If our team can rebound and get their heads back up they should be able to beat every team they play. There is no team in the coastal that we cannot beat. If we go 10-2 and we're in the ACCCG is everyone still going to be calling for the ouster of all the coaches???
I get as frustrated as anyone in these losses, especially to teams like ECU, but we know that if we don't play our best ECU can beat you. We didn't and they did.
On to Pitt. I'll still be amped up ready to watch our Hokies play in Lane next Saturday and start ACC play on a good note.
If we go 10-2 and we're in the ACCCG is everyone still going to be calling for the ouster of all the coaches???
-----------
a) the angst is that none of us really expected that to happen at this point, and
b) I notice that even in your best case scenario, you didn't even dare to have them WIN the ACC, just make it to the championship game over a fairly mediocre coastal division of the ACC.
I don't think anyone believes we could handle a dual threat QB like Clemson's, NCSU's or F$U's to beat them for the ACC title. It's sad but seems like a reality right now that we can't stop mobile QBs.
Not being able to stop mobile QBs points mostly to our Linebackers, IMHO.
Ok enough with the we are not (wrong attitude) BAMA, OSU BS!?! Look at TCU and BAYLOR. It was not long ago they were middle of the pack not a top teir team. Now with the right coaching/attitude they are both ranked in the top five! Stop making excuses for poor coaching!!!!! VT can go as far as the next coaching staff will take us. Time to break out the pitch forks and lite the torches.......
I really don't get why people say that. No one hear expects us to be freaking OSU or Alabama, but is it so hard to be an Arizona State or Wisconsin, you know a 15-20 ranked team? Teams like that don't lose to ECU, nor do their coaches say stupid things like what Beamer did yesterday.
Just because we're angry that we are not where we should be doesn't mean we expect to be a freaking Top 5 team.
Oh and by the way! Burn those puke orange helmets!!!
Disagree... those helmets were one of the only nice things about our team yesterday. Not the helmets fault our coaching staff doesn't take these games seriously.
It's because I woke my long sleeve vt shirt... Same one I wore when we lost to Ohio state.
I'm never wearing it again. Sorry guys.
It's already been said but not having Fuller, Reavis or Motuapuaka absolutely destroyed us. I think having those 3 guys there's no way Summers runs through our D like it's made of swiss cheese. IMO this is directly driven by not having the depth, or in reality, massive failures in recruiting.
I don't think Motuapuaka would have made a difference. He is not a good MLB.
Lydon gets the first half of next weeks game to audition for the starting job
I wish we had better but I think Moto is our best option. I don't think Huelskamp looks like a guy that belongs on a Power 5 roster outside of maybe special teams. LBs are Foster's position group, which makes it especially frustrating we don't have a great guy in that position for Foster's own scheme.
How did we go from guys like Ben Taylor to what we have now?
Do you mean Bruce Taylor? I've only been following Tech for 10-12 years so if you did mean Ben, he may have predated my fan hood.
https://en.wikipedia.org/wiki/Ben_Taylor_(American_football)
http://timesleaderonline.com/page/content.detail/id/527151/Va--Tech-to-h...
http://www.hokiesports.com/football/players/archive/taylor_ben.html
Pretty sure he meant Ben, who wrapped up his career in 2001 I think. One of the more memorable LBs we've had since I've been a fan (~'98). He's up there (in my mind) with Adibi as one of, if not the best LBs we have had in the last 20 years.
Yeah I meant Ben.
Bruce Taylor was an average LB at best, and not even one of our top 10.
Ah thanks. Yeah I know Adibi and Hall, Taylor was playing when I was 10 so I guess that's why I wouldn't remember him.
Huelskamp isn't Killer Elite, but in 2.5 games he has a pick, a sack, and 6 tackles with 7 assists. That's not terrible.
It's not terrible at all. Motuapuaka was a liability at mike.
I would also add that the torrential downpour completely neutralized one of our biggest strengths on defense, our speed at DE. You could tell the difference between the first several drives and the rest of the game. Without good footing there is no way Dadi or Ekanem can get around the edge and that makes blocking them much easier. That in addition to the loses on D and all of the inexperience of the replacement players is the reason why we struggled so much yesterday.
And all that to say, except for the ridiculous fourth down reception in the second half and the long run by the QB after he inexplicably slipped out of Ekanem's grasp the defense shut down ECU in the second half. That was the only points they put on the board. So I do feel like Bud adjusted the defense well and made stops in the 4th quarter to give the offense a chance to win the game. I don't think this team is as bad as people are making them out to be.
Yes we can still go 10-2, but that's highly unlikely. 10-2 was unlikely before yesterday.
I doubt we beat Pitt next week, particularly since we have an injured Fuller and starting the 3rd string Mike LB.
It's been a long time since we've beaten BC, and we're going to see to deal with Miami/UNC/Duke/GT. Frankly, I don't see us winning half of those games either.
Beamer last night reminded me so much of a post game interview of Bobby Bowden when in a bewildered "aw shucks grandpa" way stated that "it's as if....our kids couldn't....tackle"
1) not having Fuller killed us but I have no idea why Stroman took his place instead of someone like Riley. Stroman was just bodied out on every single play. No doubt in my mind that if Fuller is in this game we win by double digits.
2). Our dline played a really good game, it's our MLB play that was very lackluster. The pockets were there and it's the LBers responsibility to take care of those and they didn't... Over and over and over again.
3) McMillan should be the starting RB. Both Tre and JC are not cutting it.
4) that PI and ejection call were horrible.. But does anybody have any idea what the hell happened on that fumble that somehow was decided to not be a fumble call??!???
5) even with everything that we've seen this year, I'm still impressed with our offense. Coach Loeffler has called some great games. The penalties have killed momentum but for the first time in a long time I actually like what I'm seeing in the offensive side of the ball.
6). What coach Beamer said about these being exhibition games was downright dumb and insulting to every fan that travels to these games to support the team
7). That being said.. The Coastal looks like crap and very winnable. Nobody in the conference looks great so winning the conference is still something I could see us pulling off.
The refs watched last week's Green Bay/Seattle game where the Seattle guy came out of the pile with the ball, but the refs said it was still Green Bay's.
So I guess the refs just make it up when there's a pile.
I heard Bud say in his postgame interview that Edmunds #2 practiced there all week and "for some reason Stroman played the whole game". He mentioned that he didn't know why Torrian didn't play Edmunds #2 and that they would have to go back and look at why not (or something to that effect).
In any event, looks like some sort of breakdown or something regarding personnel expectations.
This game (and the associated comments from Frank) was the straw for me. It's time to clean house.
is it just me or can our defensive struggles of late come down to lack of talent at the Linebacker positions?
Under recruiting, kids that don't pan out along with recruiting a certain type of kid whom may not fit or possess the skill set to defend today's offensive schemes.
Winner!
via GIPHY
I was relegated to listening to the VT play-by-play yesterday. It was atrocious. The new guy can't seem to understand that the listener needs to know down, distance, and field location..leave out any one of the three and it becomes very difficult to follow. Listening to the games use to be great -- even when the game is on TV. Jon was more excited about good ECU plays yesterday than any of VT's plays. Several times he would say something (safety play) and then never explain what the ultimate call was, and just go from there. All facets of VT football have taken a step back this year. I miss Bill Roth. I really miss DBU. I really really miss having a good MLB.
I can't stand to listen to him. He does a stupid Batman voice that I find highly annoying.
He was a bad hire.
You two would be in the small minority with that thought.
Yeah John Laaser is not as good as Bill. The biggest change I feel is he just doesn't get excited for opposing plays. Like I get you're a Hokie announcer but Bill did it so well and was so balanced, and honestly that made listening to the game more fun in a way. And yeah I prefer Bill's voice, Laaser's is more grating.
Laaser isn't bad, but he's not on the level Bill Roth was/is on.
We need to give Laaser time. I'm sure he'll see some of this feedback and adjust.
Prepare for VT sacrilege...as I'm sure the numbers themselves wont support my claim. I am frustrated by everyone saying Bud is such a great DC. He is good - as long a the offense plays a traditional game. He does not seem to do well at all with any offense that has it's focus on the short, quick passing game. UNC, Duke, and ECU seem to give his defense a very difficult time. if he is such a great DC - wouldn't he have developed a game plan to address 1/3 of the games we pay each year.
I just want the coaches to state the obvious such as the ODU coach whom got their arse handed to the yesterday by App State Coach Wilder said " embarrassing performance and took the blame basically he said when you lose 49 to 0 in front our your fans whom come out under difficult conditions the only way to describe it is to say it was an embarrassment it's my responsibility as a coach and I need to get it fixed" when will the VT coaching staff stand up and make a statement. Been waiting along time and only hear the same rhetoric.