A major factor in Virginia Tech's loss to ECU was the defense's inability to wrap up ECU QB James Summers as he zigzagged his way through Tech defenders and finished with an eye-opening 169 rushing yards.
What was the reason behind the Hokies' inability to contain the Pirates' athletic quarterback?
According to defensive coordinator Bud Foster, it had nothing to do with his scheme, but more so the basic fundamentals of tackling.
"I'd call the same defense," Foster exclaimed. "We had a great fit, but we missed the tackles. We couldn't have been in better position."
"That was just poor technique. It was more technique than it was anything else."
According to Foster, slippery field conditions contributed to Summers galloping his way to several large gains that otherwise would've been 2- or 3-yard runs.
"We slipped a couple of times," Foster said. "When they were in empty (formations), we were in great shape, but guys were slipping and sliding all over the place and he (Summers) wasn't."
Adding fuel to the fire was Summers' ability to use his legs to keep several drives alive on several third-and-longs.
"That was probably our worst game in a long-time on third-down. We should've gotten off the field."
Additional tidbits from Foster
- He said the defensive line's pass rushers must do a better job of keeping mobile quarterbacks in the pocket and not creating lanes for QBs to escape.
- Words he used to describe Pitt's group of running backs: "Young, powerful and explosive."
- Foster compared Pitt's style of play to that of Boston College in terms of running the ball and playing hard-nosed defense: "It's going to be one of those 12-round battles."
- With the losses of rover C.J. Reavis, CB Kendall Fuller and the questionable utilization of nickelback Greg Stroman, Foster described the secondary as "being a little bit all over the place right now."
- Regarding Stroman's performance against ECU, Foster said he was often in good position, but got outmuscled and couldn't finish plays.
- Not surprisingly, Foster said Pitt WR Tyler Boyd presents a plethora of matchup problems for the secondary and how he's been utilized on snags, short routes, screens and deep throws. Foster also pointed out he has to be careful about paying too much attention to Boyd because that would then open up room for Pitt's run game.
Player quotes
DT Corey Marshall:
ON THE DEFENSIVE MINDSET THE TEAM HAS FACING PITT:
"Just get physical. That's a highly physical team over there. We give them all the respect in the world. They're a lunch pail-type team. They want to come in, run it 50 times a game and throw it 14 times. We just have to get ready for that type of physicality."
ON IF HE PREFERS TO FACE A RUNNING TEAM LIKE PITT:
"Uh, I think it varies from week-to-week but I definitely love the challenge. Somebody challenging you physically, saying they're going to move you. We're ready for anything, honestly. We've seen it all. It's just going out and executing, being gap-sound as a defense. These last couple weeks, we've kind of underperformed in that regard. It has not been the scheme, regardless of what the fans say. Regardless of what anybody says, it's never been the scheme. (Coach) Bud's (Foster) had top-ten defenses, you know, the majority of the time he's been here. We just got to execute."
ON IF HE READS WHAT THE FANBASE IS SAYING ON WEBSITES AND SOCIAL MEDIA:
"I mean, I can't speak for everybody in the locker room, but I don't pay attention to it at all. We're focused on what we can control. I can't control what anybody else says, so why would I waste my time and energy on that? You got to focus on what you can get better at and what we can get better at is being gap-sound and fundamentally sound."
ON WHAT HE THINKS HAS BEEN THE ISSUE WITH TACKLING MOBILE QBS:
"We have a bunch of sure tacklers. That's something we practice. It's just coming in and making the smart play. I think this year, more than some (years) in the past, we just haven't been fundamentally sound with that. But, that's something that we'll shore up because we have good tacklers up and down our defense. We just got to come up and thud guys and get them on the ground."
ON WHAT HE'S SEEN ON FILM FROM PITT RB QADREE OLLISON COMPARED TO THE INJURED JAMES CONNER:
"I mean, you can see a lot of (injured running back) James Conner in that kid. To be a freshman, you got to tip your hat to him. He's not running scared. He's running behind his pads and he's running with a purpose. I don't want to say there's not a drop-off because there's a little bit of a drop-off. He's not (James) Conner, but he's a great player in his own respect and it comes back to being physical again from the frontline to the secondary."
ON THE BENEFITS OF HAVING LB ANDREW MOTUAPUAKA BACK:
"Just from a communication standpoint, he brings a calmness with him. He brings a good energy and having 'Drew back and having our leader back will definitely be good. He was great in practice today and was moving around great, so I hope he's ready to go. He looks ready to go."
ON PLAYING NOON GAMES COMPARED TO NIGHT GAMES:
"Just from a preference standpoint, I probably prefer a noon game just to get into the swing of things pretty quick. But, I mean, they (coaching staff) do a great job of giving us the same routine every single week regardless, so we're always in that same mode whenever the game's kicked off."
RG Augie Conte:
ON WHAT HE THINKS ABOUT HOW THE OFFENSIVE LINE HAS PLAYED THUS FAR:
"I mean, I'm happy with the progress we've made in the run game. There is always room for improvement. I think we've kind of developed a better mentality on the offensive line when it comes to the run game, but there's always room for improvement."
ON THE DIFFERENCE IT MADE NOT HAVING O-LINE COACH STACY SEARELS ON THE SIDELINE:
"I mean, it was obviously a little bit different. I mean, I think his teachings and his philosophy of a tough, physical offensive line were with us. I mean, not having him there is obviously a little bit of a disadvantage when it comes to schemes and stuff like that and just having him on the sideline talking to us about what's going on the field."
ON HOW IT'S DECIDED WHICH OFFENSIVE LINEMAN GETS THE FOOL'S HAMMER FOR THE WEEK:
"It's not supposed to symbolize who plays well in a game. It's supposed to symbolize who puts in effort and shows determination to get better. I thought our practice habits needed to improve from last year and they have. That was just one thing to kind of help it along."
RB TRAVON MCMILLIAN:
ON WHAT HE THINKS ABOUT THE RUNNING BACK ROTATION THUS FAR:
"I think we're being successful with the way we're rotating it right now. Um, all of us are getting some burn and all of us are helping the team out. So, I'm just doing my job."
ON IF HE FEELS HIS ROLE IS EXPANDING:
"Yeah, definitely. I'm getting more involved in the passing game a little bit more. Against Ohio State, I didn't get that much burn. I probably had 15 plays or something like that. Now, I'm thinking I'm getting 25, close to 30 plays. So, I mean, it's just going to keep expanding and I'm trying to utilize my reps as much as possible."
ON IF HE THINKS HE CAN BE THE FEATURE BACK THAT GETS A MAJORITY OF THE CARRIES:
"Yeah, definitely. I feel like I can be that guy. J.C (Coleman) and Trey (Edmunds) have been here and have that experience. I'm just going to do what the coaches want me to do. I'm just going to try to utilize my reps as much as possible."
Comments
I agree - TKP did a good job of showing it's not scheme that's a problem, it's executing.
execution can't be the reason year in, year out though right? At some point if tackling is such a big issue for us when it comes to mobile QBs turning our defense out then doesn't that go back to coaching and making sure we can actually make open field tackles?
You can argue coaching in the sense of teaching fundamentals, sure. But scheme-wise, I don't think that's the issue. If you read the articles on the site, they show that our FS or some other free-hitter was in place for a lot of the scrambles, but we didn't wrap up and tackle properly. If you do those (like we did against OSU LAST year), then we minimize those runs.
I understand your point, and if this was one or two times against mobile QBs I would tend to agree. But when it's EVERY mobile QB we've played for several years I start to question that it's more than players not executing.
just hard to think that it's always, only been the players when it keeps happening to us.
I think you really have to look at that the stats. With Bud's schemes we all know that one missed tackle can blow the whole play wide open. That is what has happened a lot with these mobile QB's. I mean, if the QB is running it 15-20 times and he can make that one guy miss 3 or 4 of those, each turning into 20+ yd gains, often times TD's, then it looks really bad. So maybe the better argument is that a less risky scheme that doesn't put so much pressure on one guy to make a tough read and tackle is preferable.
You would think that Bud would put more of an emphasis to go out and recruit the best linebackers possible. Instead we always end up with a walk on playing one of the most critical roles. It has worked out a bunch of times, but is clearly a weakness this season.
We stopped
BraxtonCardaleBARRETT last year. We've also done pretty well against UNC the last two years. We contained Rakeem Cato in 2013... I know I'm cherry picking a bit here, but it's not every mobile QB.IMO, it's kind of like when a shooting guard goes cold... you have to have the confidence that he can't stay cold forever, and that it's only a matter of time until the shots start to fall. Similarly, if you teach your guys to be in the right spot, more often than not they will make the tackle. I agree with an above comment, maybe our coaches do need to focus on fundamental tackling better, or recruit players who are better tacklers.
Just to clarify, we didn't play against Braxton Miller last year. We played against JT Barrett and it was only his second start.
There was no Braxton who gained a yard against us last year.
(We didn't really stop JTB, he had like 120+ yards rushing until we sacked him like 5x in the last qtr)
FTFY
GOD DAMMIT
Dennard Robinson is another (...and checking my ledger, the result was an exciting win!).
I think overall it isn't unlike what happens to some of the wide open spread offenses. When they go cold, which isn't often, they are dead in the water. There is no fallback, no switching to a power I.
Bud plays a high-risk, attacking D...in my mind the basketball equivalent of an overplaying, pressing man to man. The rewards can be great but small errors get magnified; if the other guy can handle what you are doing, they are going to get some easy shots.
In Bud's base scheme, once a QB breaks contain, there is no designated person to fill a gap or players laying back to collapse on the runner...he's on the loose. Sometimes I wish he would mix in a little more zone, just to disrupt the look and rhythm.
But French hit the nail on the head...all 5 TD drives had a fairly long 3rd or 4th down conversion (what happened to the days when VT routinely forced a short throw to a check down receiver?). I wonder if some of the front X shouldn't be coached to play a sagging, switching man to man against some of these more mobile QBs. Not everyone on the punt coverage team is a gunner.
As pointed out, our scheme isn't Bend-don't-break, it's Break-don't-bend. One wrong gap fit will get you to the house in the running game, as will one missed tackle (especially if it's the free-hitter). We've stuffed running QB's before, but just seem to have issues with it this year, and I think it does come down to MLB play / Free hitter play.
it also reminds me of poor technique against some of the RBs we've face, going back to Quincy Wilson in 2002 at WVU.
We've shut down some of the best mobile quarterbacks year-in and year-out too though. Typically, we get in trouble when teams who have almost never run their quarterback before suddenly realize they can add that to their game. Pitt did it last year. Marshall the year before that. This year, ECU played a garbage time QB and ran a completely different offense. I think it has more to do with other teams (either purposely or coincidentally) bringing out completely new offenses when they play us.
This is what makes me think the scheme is a weakness: other coaches have figured out how to exploit it. Apparently we can be predictable on defense, and coaches have figured out how to show a specific read that will get our defense into a specific call, then run an unexpected play out of that read and catch our defense in the wrong setup.
We are able to stop some running QBs because their coaches haven't figured out the system yet. But once a coach knows how to use our scheme against us, we're toast.
It could be that. I think it's more a function that our strength comes from Foster's ability to scheme. When it works, and the players are prepared, we're elite. When the scheme is off, or the offense does something we weren't expecting, we get toast.
It's basically the other edge of the sword, you can make up for not having elite athletes with scheme, but when the offense plays out of character, we're relying on the raw talent/athleticism of the entire defense and we're not going to be as effective.
However we have to remember that mobile QBs are dangerous to all teams. Not just VT. That's why people love them. Plenty of mobile QBs (RGIII, Mariota, previous Oregon QBs, Boykin at TCU, Manziel who seemed more slippery than an actual mobile QB, etc etc) who we have never played tore up opposing teams in their leagues. We have also had our share of shutting down mobile QBs too. I agree with someone below that it seems more to sting us when the mobile QB isn't really known as a mobile QB, but still has wheels, or he's some what new and we don't know much about him, as in summers. Him running changed what they normally do.
I thought French pointed out that several teams have used the same play over and over again vs our bear front, so it may be a bit of both
I think he pointed out that the QB counter was our Achilles heel (at least, this year). And in those cases, it looks like our free hitters / MLB were out of place or played tentatively / hesitantly. Teams have used the QB counter in years past but we've successfully shut it down. GT is a great example of this.
I'm not saying Foster's off scott-free, i'm saying that the fault isn't in his scheme, the fault is perhaps his recruiting, teaching of fundamentals, and for some reason not being on the same page as Torrian.
Man. I really like Corey Marshall.
He definitely ranks as one of the top players to speak to. Just terrific.
Pitt Post Game Media Conference:
Reporter: "Frank! Frank! That was some game, what's your initial reaction?"
Frank: "From this point on I will be reverting to Hokie Football spokesman Corey Marshall for all media events"
Silently in corner, Whit nodding approvingly.
Speaking of TMac..did anyone notice early in the ECU game we ran that Ohio State play? Trips WR's and leaked the back underneath them while they blocked. It wasn't as successful but got good yards. I think execution was just a touch off and something I think we'll see more of come conference play.
Can you elaborate further? I'm not following
I noticed that ECU ran that play a few times against US, and fairly successfully.
ABSOLUTELY! Good catch.
I was going to put that play in my review, but didn't have much to say other than "I liked that play". Loeffler has a tendency to break out a few new plays he has never shown before, and they normally work really well.
pretty much what French said in another thread...
Seems to me that if that's a problem that you suspected you had, and the other team suspected you had, then it's a strategy problem.
I don't expect it to go away until it's addressed.
Seems to me the coaches owned up that they made a mistake putting Stroman in for Fuller and Riley played the 2nd half. Question is now how good is Edmunds/Riley combo for the rest of the season?
It is an Edmunds. He is going to lite up their WR's.
Yeah I think Foster and Lefty may need a few X's and O's lessons from French... ;)
Bud Foster is actually French?
Glad to see someone like Conte getting a word in. And I like Corey Marshall too. He's right that it's a waste of his time as a player to pay attention to all the static out there in fandom. Everyone's a critic, everyone's an analyst even if they've never played a down, and everyone has just as good if not better insight than the coaches and players themselves. Life would be noisy if they tried to follow it all.
These guys didn't have their best game last week. I think they turn it around on a tough Pitt team and show us what they got.
I agree, schematically we were fine for most of the game. However, a few of you bring up a good point; the blame can be shifted back towards the scheme when the personnel are not consistently executing. Theoretically, they should be making one on one tackles in the open field and Stroman should be making plays on the ball effectively when he is in position but when we consistently aren't making those plays, it can be seen as stubborn to keep choosing that scheme when we don't execute. However, I do believe in and prefer Bud's high risk scheme most of the time. Also, we may not be equipped to effectively execute a different scheme at the moment. Lots of factors to consider that we may not be thinking of.
And if I understood French correctly, Bud did in fact change the look several times to help Stroman out. Unfortunately none of those adjustments worked consistently.
Also should be noted that the failed executions are bound to happen from time to time. The difference between winning and losing games with this scheme is 2-3 failed executions versus 5-7 failed executions in key situations. There was an execution error tied to a third/fourth and long on each of their scoring drives. If we get off the field on half of those, we may well win the game.
So much analysis and questioning and we as fans can't change a damn thing. Nothing will put this lousy week in the rear view like a win over Pitt at home. I still have some faith...
Given our inconsistency, will a win really allow you to put this in the rear view mirror? Or will it just be a short term fix.
I haven't watched pitt at all this year, tbh.
How'd their backup qb looking?
well Voytik who ran all over us last year just had his spot taken by a more "accurate" qb..
Enter--> Nate Peterman 20-29 219 yards 2 tds and 2 ints during a Loss vs Iowa last week
Saw presser today and Narduzzi has said Voytik will have a package of plays.. I'm expecting those to all be zone reads/QB Power options like ECU QB
as a coach. if your designed scheme isn't working because you don't have the players to execute at some point you have to adjust your scheme. im in a place where I don't get to hand pick players to fit my scheme. every year I go into the season running my base defense and trying to coach these players up to that scheme but as we develop and I find holes due to not having players with the ability to play my scheme I make adjustments. I don't just keep running out the same defense and saying MY PLAYERS ARENT EXECUTING. I think that is a case of the coach not executing just as much. now as well all know when you try and fill one hole sometimes you open up another one. you have to figure out what it is your willing to live with. I think at the end of the day you would prefer to have a QB beat you by running. it just so happens that they are. but we could put a spy on the QB or do other things to insure he doesn't run but It will take away the aggressiveness of attacking the fun game or the extra guy on a blitz or the extra guy in coverage and since we call ourselves things like sacksburg and DBU I think we should live with it. this is the guy you want to beat you and by running not throwing. the odds should be in our favor. kinda started out saying bud was wrong lol and then ended up by defending him. sigh the life of a coach. forever scrutinized.
Calling for more rain on Saturday. Pitt is going to run wild.
We defended the tailback runs well in the rain Saturday. Granted, Pitt is a completely different animal and style of running, but unless Voytik has a repeat of last year, I'm cautiously optimistic.
"Regarding Stroman's performance against ECU, Foster said he was often in good position, but got outmuscled and couldn't finish plays." - Bud Foster
"I thought he was very good in man coverage. Better more physically mature receivers took the ball away from him. One on one, he was only cleanly beaten twice. His struggles in zone, where the defensive coaches are trying to give him help, were much more concerning. In those man on man situations, physics won more than Stroman doing something wrong."- French60Wasp 22 hours ago in the comments of the ECU Defensive Film Review thread.
Drink!
Is Bud talking in 3rd person now?
Of course he is! All the Badasses do it
"He once arm wrestled a shark for dibs on fighting the Orca. He is the Most Interesting Man in the World" - The Most Interesting Man in the World
"If you throw the ball to Sam Rogers he will score, even against OSU" - Sam Rogers
Leg up for perfect Arn Anderson video. I miss good wrestling. After the Wrestlemania at Caeser's Palace with Hogan injured from a jet ski accident it all went downhill from there.
I want bud to sit all the players down and make them watch the dismantling of Denard Robinson in 2012. I think that might have been the best containment of a mobile QB that Foster has ever shown.
That team also had Jack Tyler and Bruce Taylor backing up the line. A healthy Motu is no where near these two.
Touch. Also proves buds point that it's less about the scheme and more about playmakers making plays.
It's time to have a Bud, no Iron City here.
Is it just me, or is anyone else hoping to see a healthy dose of Lydon on Saturday? He doesn't always fill the right gap, but when he does he seems to arrive in a bad mood(which translates to tackling guys for losses).