Not just Xs and Os

French does a great job with his game previews and reviews every week. He breaks down the Xs and Os better than almost anyone I know who's not a coach or former coach. Much like everyone else on TKP I appreciate the effort and work he puts into keeping Hokie Nation informed. But as helpful as a level headed film review can be to explain why a certain play broke down or was successful, there's also some things that happen during a game that can't be attributed to a certain technique, allignment, or play call.
I want to address a few of those intangibles and get some feedback from my fellow Hokies. Part if this is venting but mostly I'd like to hear y'all's opinion and see if maybe others feel the same.

I spent a lot of time thinking about the past two games after the clock hit zeroes on the VT jumboton yesterday. A lot of frustration, coupled with wanting explanations about personnel management, why we can't stop the big plays on defense that seem to be the difference in close games, and wondering why we can't clean up the penalties.

I'm not sure about the rest of you but I had pretty high hopes for this year's team even after losing to OSU and Brewer getting hurt. I was sold on all the hype coming out of the spring and fall camps about the dominance of this defensive front, and even though the linebacker depth was a concern, I had faith that Bud could overcome that. I never had any expectations of making the playoffs this year but I figured we could absolutely make it to Charlotte and build for next year. Well here we sit, 5 games in and we aren't even a .500 football team. But for me the letdown isn't even the biggest disappointment, it's the way in which we lose these games.

I made a comment after the ECU game that on the long 40 something yard TD run where ECU's QB straight embarrassed a couple of our DLs and used one arm to throw a DE off of himself like he was a super hero, that maybe it was a combo of poor tackling and lack of effort. While I certainly don't think that any of us are connected enough with the locker room to analyze effort, it doesn't take a geneous to see when a player kind of gives up on a play or lacking intensity. So I'll stand by my observation.

Then yesterday, after Motley was blasted back to back to back, his own teammates didn't even bother to walk over and help him up. Well there's no explanation or excuse for that. No game film in the world can convince me that the act of leaving your brother laying on the field in physical pain is not attributed directly to a weak, soft, and selfish culture to a certain extent. You just don't do that. I've coached Pop Warner football for a while and one of the first things we teach our kids is toughness, sportsmanship, and the concept that no one player on the team is more important than the team. I'm sure those Virginia Tech players learned the same things coming up.

Watching this team play this year really has made me start to question the culture and direction of the Hokies football program. Do I think it's time for wholesale coaching changes? Maybe. Do I think that Frank Beamer has allowed the game to pass him by? No. I think that Frank and Bud might have gotten a little too comfortable though. I'm starting to get the feeling that they don't feel like there's much preaure for them to perform. If that's the case, that's is dangerous.

I don't know what's going on with this football program that used to be a smash mouth, hard nose, blue collar bunch that didn't mind an opponent knowing what was coming at them because they knew the other team couldn't stop it. All I know is what I've noticed lately isn't even close to what I grew up knowing about VT football. We still carry the lunch pail but is that just a meaningless symbol now? Is the bring your lunch and be ready to work mentality really being pushed by the actions of the staff during the week? Doesn't seem like it on game day. Is there any doubt in the players mind that they will be held accountable and even benched for taking plays off or leaving their QB laying out on the field? I'm not sure anymore.

I won't get too deep into play calling because I don't sit in team meetings or watch these guys practice. I'm not in the film room when the coaches are preparing their groups for the upcoming opponent but I even see the change of mentality in the play calling. We're almost telling the other teams that we're not able to run downhill. How many times in a game to we see them march a fullback and a couple tight ends out there to block and pound the rock between the tackles? That type of play calling is a state of mind. It's a tough, gritty way of sending a message to your opponent about what kind of team you think you have. Whether it's effective right away or not, I'd rather see that than 20 jet sweeps a game that lose yardage with a couple QB draws mixed in. Those plays are fine as a way to mix it up and keep the defense guessing but that shouldn't be your entire offense. Especially if it's not even moving the ball.

I don't know what's in store for the rest of this season. I refuse to give up on my team and I'll hang right with them til the bitter end but I want to see that mental toughness and determination reciprocated. Look at what Jim Harbaugh has done with a Michigan team that was an absolute joke last year. That should be evidence alone that with the right mentality, and right culture, you can't help but to improve in this game. Regardless of injuries or adversity. Go Hokies!

DISCLAIMER: Forum topics may not have been written or edited by The Key Play staff.

Comments

Yes, I think there is an intangible problem.

This is going to be great for the ACC.

Which comes directly from coaching

Yes, it certainly could. Not denying that at all.

This is going to be great for the ACC.

Five star get after it 100 percent Juice Key-Playing. MAN

Absolutely unacceptable behavior from the upperclassmen on the OL, especially after they were embarrassed all day and nearly got Motley destroyed. I suspect we see a shakeup on the OL this week. Really disappointed with Searles and the effort from those guys. Inexcusable.

Stiney covered for Searels

With Searels, in his second year with the Hokies, unavailable, his duties will be assumed by tight ends coach Bryan Stinespring.

STINEY HOW DARE YOU!!

Does this partially explain why the OL didn't finish out the way we'd hope in both the ECU and Pitt games?

Let's Go

HOKIES

I'd be curious about that.

It might explain some things...

Really sad that one of our defensive players ended up going to him first.

French, you have discussed the mentality and toughness that OL players need to possess. I'm not sure this is something that can be taught but I would expect good coaches to bring those intangibles out of players. It is like our OL has no pride. They want to play with stupid symbols instead of building a reputation of being nasty.

How do we get back to the Jake Grove days when Miami would complain that our OL was dirty?

Man I miss Jake. Talk about a guy that worked hard!

"If you coach the way the fans want you to, you might find yourself sitting in the stands next to them" -Herm Edwards

C O A C H I N G

Jake Groove was a 2 star player that in his senior year was an All American after 4 years of COACHING development.

On a side note, I thought the announcers for the game did a pretty good job for what was an ugly game. Very good points made by them, even if some of them were not terribly
complimentary to our squad. (Which is not their fault, not many complimentary things to say right now)

But yes, that observation made me sick.

"Buckley Buckley Buckley"

"You can clearly see the ball touches the ground, they have to overturn this." - "But he had control..." - "Doesn't matter, the ball touched the ground."

Not sure which announcers you were listening to, but the Fox Sports South guy...the one was solid, the other an idiot.

“I remember Lee Corso's car didn't get out of the parking lot.” -cFB
TKPC #666 ...man that was long wait...

I couldn't believe that Beamer did not stick up for Motley when he was hit on the play blown dead due to the false start in the beginning of the game. If the coach doesn't care if Motley gets hit, why should anyone else?

This team need to stick up for each other and have some intensity and it lacks at the top.

Maybe we need Coach Hartman on the sideline for staff to ref discussions.

I would give you a hundred legs for that if I could. Coach Hartman was a tobacco/gum, butt-chewing manager cut straight from the best cloth out there, IMHO. Would love to see that same fire from other Coaches not named Bud...

And no surprise there, it's Wally Lancaster with an airball that looked gorgeous on its way to nowhere...
2/15/89, VT vs. South Carolina...

Lee

That's Fantastic! We could always tell which direction the wind was blowing during a game - you just had to look at which direction the tobacco juice went on the front of his jacket! And yes, he was absolutely not afraid to get after an ump.

1,000 legs if I could give them for the picture alone!

"Badges? We don't need no stinking badges!"

I just tried to get a replay of this game on WatchESPN and it wasn't available. Who does that 'every-snap' compilation?

http://espn.go.com/watchespn/player/_/id/2668524/

I figured out that not all Watch ESPN is not the same.
On TV apps, there is nowhere near as many replays available as on PC.

Edit.
It's available on my iPod app and PC but not on my Amazon fire stick or chrome cast.

This is going to be great for the ACC.

Thanks, Egbert. I do not have any Apple products but a friend hooked it up for me after I asked around. Watched it and concluded that it looked bad, but I've seen worse in some respects. The offense was just baaaad.

Funny I've been trying to burn that game from my memory.

"If you coach the way the fans want you to, you might find yourself sitting in the stands next to them" -Herm Edwards

I started rewatching it in small bits yesterday.
The first part of the first PITT offensive series we almost had the QB sacked but Marshall and someone else nearly sandwiched him. The QB ducked and they went helmet to helmet.

This is going to be great for the ACC.

This is why you need to have "high man/low man" assignment if you realize you're about to sandwich a player.

"I liked you guys a lot better when everybody told you you were terrible." -Justin Fuente

my two cents would be the running back rotation which seems to be holding our run game back and the fact that Shane is appolgizing to guys for not giving them enough carriers. Sorry Pick the Top two and Give McMillian all the carriers.

A new season...new hope

I think the OL blocking is still the number one problem with our run game, it doesn't matter who the RB is if he's getting tackled the instant he gets the ball

I thought the same thing after ECU, but as Mason pointed out, the line was opening holes against ECU, the running backs just weren't finding their lanes. I'm wondering if the same thing happened against Pitt.

"I liked you guys a lot better when everybody told you you were terrible." -Justin Fuente

It looked that way to start, then it just seemed like they got wore down, trying to pass-block all the time to make up for it, and by the end it didn't matter what we were trying to do, they were penetrating.

“I remember Lee Corso's car didn't get out of the parking lot.” -cFB
TKPC #666 ...man that was long wait...

I can only imagine the frustration of opening holes in the run game, only to have the running backs consistently not find them. Then being called on to pass block repeatedly on a day when it's clear you have no answers at left tackle for the opposing pass rush, not because you failed to run block, but rather because your backfield teammates couldn't find the holes you were opening.

"I liked you guys a lot better when everybody told you you were terrible." -Justin Fuente

Not sure, definitely looking forward to the film reviews to see what they saw

I don't want to be dramatic here, but the evidence is in. I've seen it for three years now.
The penalties, lack of grit, inability to close, inability to recruit. That stuff REALLY is a reflection of the man in charge. Beamer is HOF bound, but he will NOT go easy. This year should be the last --> it is clear.

"I play real sports, not trying to be the best at exercising..." - KP

Amen Brother..........

It's funny, this reads exactly like the conversation I had today with a friend who is a sixty something former Hokie Linebacker........

This team needs a lesson in nasty. I don't know how you teach it or coach it, but we used to have year in and year out. Maybe the whole Hokie respect and this is home campaign has backfired to a degree (which would be a shame).

"A person is smart. People are dumb, panicky dangerous animals and you know it." - K

I don't understand why we are lacking intensity either. This was an ACC game, not just an "exhibition" game as FB put it, so there is no excuse for lacking intensity. I hope Beamer fixes the culture issue and instills the culture that got us through the 2010 and prior seasons.

First time I took my dad to a football game was when I was a freshman in 2000. It was his first big time college football game, he had seen some small school ball, but it obviously doesnt compare. The thing he was blown away with was the energy on the sideline, the fact that the players on the sideline werent sitting down, they were into the game, no matter who was on the field. He also said that he could feel an attitude coming off our team that was kinda like that kid in the neighborhood that no one wanted to mess with, because even though he wasnt the biggest or strongest, he was the meanest, and would probably F&*# you up if you did. I took him to a redskins game a few years later (dont judge me, I had free tickets! lol), and he said the comparison wasnt even close, he was disgusted while watching the pro game, because he said it felt like they were just going through the motions. It seems like that is where we are at right now. How do we get back to being that kid that will F*&# up your sh#% if you mess with him? And dont even get my started on the oline leaving motley down. Searels should rip each one of them a new asshole. bushleague pure bushleague.

Sitting in the stands during the game I saw several times where the O line after a play looked at each other and were pointing at each other or shrugging like asking. The other guy "what happened". The. Multiple times the DB's and LB/safeties were not set up in the right formations. Did that come across on TV?

Wet stuff on the red stuff.

Join us in the Key Players Club

Not that it directly caused the loss, but it speaks to team unity and culture: The scene on the field between the 3rd & 4th quarters. I was at the game and observed how all the Pitt coaches & players gathered into a dense blob at the sideline and were jumping up and down, yelling & getting hyped. The Hokies were just sort of meandering from one place to another, independently, with no apparent team gathering or coaching up going on. This spoke volumes to me. I know teams all have their own little traditions and practices and I know we were losing at that point, but we just did not look unified at all. Did anyone else notice this?.

no fire. Beamer is chill, which is good for a CEO, but when was the last time we saw bud break a clipboard,chuck his headset 10 rows into the bleachers, or rip off someones head and shit down their neck? If the fire doesnt come from the head man to inspire them, is it still coming from bud? Does anyone on that sideline have "big marbles"?

The first time I noticed the lack of energy from our team was when we played Cinci at FedEx Field a few years ago. I think it was at the end of the 3rd Q. As the ball was taken from one end of the field to the other the entire Cincy team RAN down their sideline to the other side of the field where the ball was. I looked over at our sideline and was disappointed (and sort of disgusted) to see our team walking down their sideline. That was the moment when I knew we were going to lose that game. That was the moment when I knew this team was lacking the personality that got it to 10 wins and multiple ACC titles. I haven't seen a return of that energy or mentality since that game.

Onward and upward

I remember watching the sidelines during last year's Miami game, after the game had gotten out of hand. Some of the staff were dancing to the music being played in the stadium and looking like we had a 40 point lead instead of getting blown out. At the time, I was so pissed that I even filmed it and planned to email the video to the athletic department. I later calmed down and decided not to be "that guy". I don't think it was assistant coaches, but just the extra staff guys that are on the sidelines during games. Either way, I just don't think you should be dancing and chilling during a beat down like that. You should be pissed off and embarrassed. When I played high school ball, if you lost (and it was an away game), you were expected to have a quiet bus ride home...no joking, no laughing, no talking, and no stupidity. To me, if you don't accept a losing mentality, then you don't accept this behavior out of anyone standing on that sideline. If they're allowed to act like that, no matter what their role is, then they aren't important enough to be standing on the sideline at all. And this all goes back to the OP's point...we should be pissed off and angry when we play like this. Damn, I know I am and I'm certainly not important enough to be on the sideline.

I think this is a little bit of an exaggeration. Being sad/depressed/angry/embarrassed whatever is not an instant motivator. This is something IMO the media blows out of proportion. The players don't want to dwell on a loss, they want to get back to the practice field. So what if they jump around when a song they like is playing.

Totally disagree with you. So, if you have a business or you are a manager of a department, and you're having a direct conversation with an employee about his lack of performance on the job, would you be cool if he ignored the current situation/conversation and acted as if it really didn't matter? If he said, hey it's cool, your stressing for nothing. Let's just move on. You wouldn't have a problem with that? Hmmm...

Maybe I misunderstood your post, but I don't see how dancing/joking at the the end of a loss is the equivalent of an ignoring your supervisor during a performance review? To me this is like finishing up a rough project that doesn't go well. But the end is in sight. You crack a few jokes, make some snarky comments about the client. Once the project is over, and you've had some time to separate yourself from the project, the client site, etc, you start to reflect on your performance. Where could I have done better? What did I do wrong?

I feel like the media today has an expectation that players MUST be depressed after every loss, and if you're not, then you don't care enough. Every Cam Newton press conference after a loss, he looks like he comes to the presser with the goal of being depressed as possible. It's dumb. Players don't have any emotion debt to fans, the press, coaches or anyone. As long as they get back at it on Monday and make an effort to learn from and improve upon mistakes, then I don't care if they dance or not.

So, our team should wait until AFTER the clock hits zero to reflect on their poor performance? We'll just have to agree to disagree on this one.

What is accomplished by forcing the team to sulk on sidelines in a game where we're down 30-6 with 1 minute left? Make them as unhappy as possible? I just don't get the point.

And yes, I do think it is important to take a step back, remove yourself from the stressful situation and cool off, then analyze the situation with the most unbiased view possible.

Either way, I just don't think you should be dancing and chilling during a beat down like that. You should be pissed off and embarrassed. When I played high school ball, if you lost (and it was an away game), you were expected to have a quiet bus ride home...no joking, no laughing, no talking, and no stupidity. To me, if you don't accept a losing mentality, then you don't accept this behavior out of anyone standing on that sideline.

Everyone reacts to failure and radiates their emotions differently. Just because someone chooses not to be visibly depressed after a game doesn't mean they don't care that they loss. No need to harp on a player who displays his emotions differently than you.

I agree. There is no "glum" requirement when you're losing.

Sort of like laughing at a funeral. Emotions are weird sometimes. And sometimes the situation is so bad you just have to laugh.

I don't think anyone should have been laughing when Motley was slammed to the ground last week, but I don't think they were.

Whatever bro. I think you just want to argue. My point wasn't any different than most people regarding a concern for a lack of (at least perceived) passion. Go argue with someone else. I typically don't get into back and forth with anyone on here or any other website. I disagree with you and you disagree with me, so let it go.

Yes, watching from tv it seems like everyone was just going through the motions, like the team has already given up on the season...

I can imagine no more rewarding a career. And any man who may be asked in this century what he did to make his life worthwhile, I think can respond with a good deal of pride and satisfaction:
“I served in the United States Navy"

For some reason, this team can't play in the rain. I'm not going to get into the indoor thing again, but two losses in a row to teams where they are CLEARLY more talented...

Leonard. Duh.

but two losses in a row to teams where they are CLEARLY more talented...

I'm not sure if you're being facetious here or not. Is there really that much of a talent disparity between VT and ECU? VT and Pitt? If so, is it really that clear?

Onward and upward

Little Monday am facetiousness. Still think they have trouble in the rain.

Leonard. Duh.

I was wondering the same thing.
How do we do in wet weather. It doesn't look good.
This team that played so well for 1/2 a game against OSU looked like they were just hunkering down.
That would be on my list. Why is that? It can be something simple. Figure that out.

This is going to be great for the ACC.

My completely uneducated guess is that lack of experience in the secondary means playing catchup in getting into position. Hard to make up ground when said ground is wet.

The offensive line woes... I don't know. I hate to do this, but that has to be a coaching deficiency. On defense, I can see a good scheme, bad execution. On offense, I can't see where the kids are being set up for success.

Leonard. Duh.

I blame Zone blocking for the overall softness. More misdirection than mashing the man in front of you.

Tweedy can run like a dadgum antelope or whatever. I like to use scalded dog. Do antelopes lumber? Cheetah, OK. He runs like a cheetah. He's fast. - Bud Foster