This is not a "who would you pick to be the next VT coach" thread. Those have their place, and are great "what if" conversation starters. But I think you will agree with me that our situation is a little beyond what ifs.
So who might actually be available, either because they aren't working out at their current school/team, or because they would have interest in a promotion to a P5 school?
It's time to look to the future. Who is realistically available?
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Give me Jon Gruden
...you might need a refresher on the rules of this game.
I mean hes technically "available"
I want the next coach to have the following traits. 1- Honesty& Integrity 2- strong offensive background 3-excellent recruiting skills 4-can communicate with team,press & supporters ( put 2 statements together that actually make sense) 5- is foreword looking & has a vision for this program. Do not know the name of this coach at this time but am sure Whit will be able to find him.
Way to early but I'll play:
Dino Babers is the first guy that comes to mind
From everything I have read about him, Tom Herman will be a P5 coach very soon and a good one.
Charlie Strong is gonna be available.
In a heartbeat. Yesterday. Should we be so lucky.
Negative. Without his South Florida bagman, his weaknesses are shining through. Horrible hire by Texas.
Horrible hire by Texas? Living in Austin and watching Texas play every week, I can tell you it wasn't a bad hire at all. He got rid of all of Mack's garbage players last year (his 1st year) and has recruited very well. The best players on the team right now are mostly freshmen (all Strong recruits) and based on the upper classman play, they won't have a single draft pick this year (all Mack recruits). Yes, Mack recruited Jerrod Heard before he resigned, but Strong made him stay.
Trust me, next year (3rd year), this team will win 8-9 games. Fans don't have any patience anymore.
I'll take that 8-9 win bet. I simply don't believe in his ability.
You've said it a bunch of times with conviction, but his record is pretty strong.
I'd take him.
Agree. Charlie strong got lucky with Teddy Bridgewater. Look at his teams since Bridgewater graduated. Granted, UT is a pressure cooker, but Texas is also loaded with talent. Charlie strong is not going to be UT HC for much longer.
Didn't Strong recruit Isaiah Ford originally? I would like a team with more I. Fords. Unless I am misremembering I think Strong's leaving Loserville for UT is why Ford decommitted and came to VT.
PJ Fleck and Justin Fuente were suggested on the "Realistic Thoughts..." thread...
Did that thread devolve into a "Who's the next coach?" thread? It started out as a "How do we salvage the season?" thread.
The only logical solution is that you salvage the program with a new head coach.
The solution to the season is "get better".
I'd go with Justin Fuentes. Too bad Clemson's former OC took the HC job with SMU. Chad Morris was my first choice but he is unavailable.
Chad Morris. Tech would be a step up from smu, I hope.
I don't know if he would coach against Clemson. Everything I have heard about Morris paints him as a very loyal guy. Would be like Bud taking an ACC head job.
We almost never play Clemson. Now, if we were talking ECU, different story.
Only has to worry about that once every 7 years.
(Of course, fate would give us Clemson on the 2017 schedule.)
Outside of possible ACCCG matchups (can we dream about those again, one day, in the hopefully not-so-distant future?) we only play Clemson twice in the next decade. Shouldn't be a major issue.
To all of the above who pointed this out, good point. I wasn't really thinking about how infrequently we play Atlantic opponents. Morris would face Clemson more as the head coach of Notre Dame than of VT.
Yeah, sadly, FSU and Clemson are essentially in another conference.
I bet this would change if we became relevant again.....
I would FULLY expect Bud to take an ACC job if offered. VT had their chance, but I wouldn't blame him in the least.
Cant say, but he certainly felt comfortable enough sending Brewer our way, he was Brewer's HS coach back in Texas.
So that is a good sign.
guys lets pump the breaks, smu hasnt exactly been great this year. They did lose to JMU and thats not something i want to be tied to. *ducks*
SMU were a complete disaster when he showed up. Their record this year shouldn't be the determining factor on if Chad Morris is a good candidate for HC at VT. I watched their first game against Baylor and they were pretty impressive. I believe it took SMU 4 games to score 14 points last season? Something crazy like that.
They've also played TCU and Baylor, who they threw punches with for a while.
Chad Morris is hopefully vey, very high on the list. He's a recruiter and understands relationships with h.s. coaches, the big negative is I feel he would see VT as a stepping stone. Bring us back to relevance and gone...
I would take Chad Morris for 5 years as a stepping stone, especially if we are back to "relevant" again. I would be surprised to see any major college have a coach much longer than 5-10 years ever again unless they have a ton of success and early (i.e. Looking at the SEC, anyone outside of Saban, Miles, Sumlin going to be at their current place more than 5 years?). I guess I am just trying to manage my own expectations of seeing a coach come in a stay.
Slightly OT: I think that (Beamer stepping down) is also starting to settle into me a bit too. We have streets and sandwiches and buildings and more sandwiches named after our coaches now. The end of the era is coming soon and emotions will be had by all when it does end. Just like everyone else, I haven't been happy with our performance lately and want to see some change, but also realizing what we are about to lose. It is and will be a big deal.
Kevin Jones
Shit, let him be running backs coach. Can't be worse than Shane, and he has some experience at the position.
How many coaches have come straight into a P5 program with NO coaching experiance at any level as a position coach? Just because someone played a position does not make them a good coach.
How do we know?
By doing research and looking at current P5 position coaches and getting a sample size of where they were prior to becoming the position coach.
Fine, the how about Lee Suggs or Ken Oxendine as RBs coach? BOTH have had extensive experience at the NFL level. BOTH have collegiate coaching experience.
Suggs has coached at Division III Oberlin College. Oxendine is a phys ed instructor at a high school.
Correct, and Oxendine coached some at Ga Southern.
Oy. One year of coaching experience ten years ago? No thank you. I had to look for ten minutes to even find confirmation that happened. I'd rather have someone who has never played a down for VT but knows how to coach their position at the P5 level.
Ok. But if you look at the path of his pro career, he sort of transitioned from pro NFL back to more of a coaching/teach and encouragement position. I think he'd be superior to Shane at backs coach (not as HC).
That is not the bar we need to set.
Invent the Future? But I wasn't being serious. More a comment about how bad Shane is than how qualified KJ is.
Going with names that have been thrown around here at some point.
Chad Morris -- going from a Power 5 OC to Group of 5 HC is like a half step promotion. I'm sure the jump to Power 5 HC would be enticing.
Mark Richt -- Georgia fans seem to be a lot more fickle than we are. Remember a few years ago when they started 0-2, and everyone wanted to fire the coach, and then he finished the season 10-2? Maybe he would want the less pressure of an ACC coaching job, where he could be a bigger fish in a small pond, compared to where he is in the SEC. Maybe.
I never even considered Mark Richt. I've always liked him and I think that would be a great hire.
Chad seems pretty happy where he's at. He's a Texas guy at heart. Highly doubt we get him.
He's in a group of 5 conference...
We dangle competitive salary his direction and a chance to head coach a name program in a weak division in a weak conference where the champ is in the discussion for the playoffs.... Yeah, he accepts that job. Anyone would. It's why we are going to be one of, if not the top job opening when Frank retires.
Competitive salary huh? We couldn't even come up with a "competitive salary" to keep Moorehead & Grimes. Hopefully Whit Babcock can change that...
Grimes also had family/personal reasons that played a big role in his decision.
Moorehead was at the bottom of the salary totem pole here, and Whit probably didn't want to start a snowball effect by shelling out the dough needed to counter A&M's offer. That being said, I would think that a new head coach would spark a new pay scale in the athletic department.
Spark a new pay scale. I like that.
Those were replaceable pieces. The next HC will run the VT athletics cash cow. This is the CEO of a $25m+ business.
Hmmm, I like what Zohn Burden has done with the WR recruiting, but only Ford and Phillips are legit enough to play? JUST TWO RECEIVERS?
I think Moorehead would have had our 3rd through 6th string guys in better shape to contribute.
The fact that AMo coached every receiver currently behind Ford and Phillips on the depth chart does not help your argument.
You're right "in a sense," but not exactly. Knowles, and Newsome both contributed during AMo's time. One saw the field a lot last year, and the other was pretty darn good two seasons ago. Plus AMo usually had something assuring to say after games and in other interviews.
It doesn't matter who the WR coach is really, as long as the do the freakin job and get guys to play well. The point is that this is "Major" college football. What team has a good chance of winning if they can only scrape up two WR's to endure the season?
Moorehead wouldn't have stuck around if we matched his salary. As a young gun offensive coach (or pretty much any offensive coach) working for Kevin Sumlin >>>> working for Beamer and Loeffler.
Chad Morris is bidding his time at SMU, waiting for the day Charlie Strong gets fired and he can step in to take his place as HC at UT. Unfortunately, Chad Morris will not be coming to VT.
I would think Texas would go for a bigger name than Chad Morris even if he would make a ton of sense for them.
I think it will be interesting to keep an eye on what happens with the Philadelphia Eagles this year. I don't know if we could realistically go after Chip Kelly, but the guy is a proven winner and an innovator of the game on offense. He may or may not pan out as an NFL coach, but great college coaches rarely do. If the Eagles go south this year, I could see them maybe pulling the plug at the end of the year, and Kelly would likely be interested in getting back into the college game. Hot shot coordinators and up and coming college coaches will likely get some consideration, but I have no doubt Whit will do everything he can to hit a homerun with this hire when that time comes.
That would be the Grand Slam hire.
I think his time with the eagles is over by seasons-end.
Unfortunately, I think the same about Charlie Strong. Early prediction: Chip will be at Texas next year
I dunno man
Chip never wins the big game
But he gets there.
You can't tell me you wouldn't want a Chip Kelly offense in the ACC. Combined with an uptick in recruiting, he could have us in contention for the conference yearly. I think Bud's struggles on defense this year are less coaching and more the culmination of far too many recruiting misses and lack of depth. We pick up the recruiting, and pair a Kelly offense with a Foster defense, and I'm taking that coaching staff all day.
I don't think we keep Foster if we get Kelly. But I'd still take Kelly.
Agreed. It would be a good trade-off.
Guh. A Chip Kelly offense with a good Bud Foster defense... Although I don't think the offense would be on the field long enough to give the defense a good rest. But that's been our struggle for a while anyways, in a bad way, but Bud's still put up some great defenses. Yikes.
Chip Kelly could bring enough energy, if he got Bud to stay, we'd pick up the guys we need to build depth, I'm not certain Foster knows what to do with depth tho...
The issue of "resting" a defense is overstated. Regardless of the amount of time the defense spends on the sideline between series, it is better for the defense to return to the field either A) having a 7 point greater lead than they were playing with when they last came off the field, or B) being 7 points closer to taking the lead. Defense is called differently based on the score, just like offense is. Let Bud play with a lead and shit gets wrecked.
Again, I don't think we keep Bud Foster if we bring in a guy like Chip Kelly, but if we did, putting a ton of points on the board would be the best thing a head coach and offensive coordinator could do for him.
Why do you think we couldn't keep Bud? Chip and Bud has championship written all over it. Agreed on resting a defense as overstated. Chip Kelly's offense could have most teams buried at halftime .. Making it easy for Bud to get second teamers in the second half .. Building real depth
Call it a hunch and nothing more. I believe if the man Bud is loyal to more than anyone else is gone and anyone besides Bud is offered the job, especially if it is an outsider, then I think Bud goes elsewhere, either as a DC or a head coach. I admittedly might be misreading the situation, and my opinion is based on nothing more than my read of the personalities involved.
He went to a bcs bowl each of his 4 years and won 2 of them. 50%. We won 1 in 6 games
Didn't Kelly have some shady recruiting things going on at Oregon when he left?
Seems like that is one of the keys to success nowadays...sigh
Mike London might be available
Well, based on past history (Richmond and UVA), he would probably be good for one or two years with someone else's players.
So yeah, this could work. He takes the guys we have, recruits the hell out of everyone else, and then leaves in two years with a winning record, potentially some championships, and a fully stocked cupboard.
On the plus side, he's proven he can recruit in Virginia...
#BringLaneKiffintoLane
No thanks...hes not good without great talent...he already proved it...
He's killing it in Bama...
Who knows, studying under Saban for a few years and the humbling experience of failing once could pay off in his next job. Wouldn't be the first time that has happened.
I'd take Kirby Smart, maybe...
Does Lane Kiffen look like a guy who has an once of humility?
Failing once? ...Was that one time in Oakland, Tennessee, or Southern Cal?
He's not even good with great talent
Personally, I don't want him here. He's not that good of a HC
#onlyifheisthejanitor
You mean Lane North?
He'd run our program into the ground. Maybe we'd see some wins, but not in the way that I'd want to win. I don't get good vibes from that guy. I hate Tennessee with every fiber of my being and even I know he did them wrong. He's the one who came to their program after Fulmer and ran it into the ground.
No to Lane Kiffin but I just can't resist
Bruce Arians after he wins the super bowl this year will come back to VT!
LT as QB/TE coach
1. Justin fuente 2. Kirby smart 3.Chad morris 4. Pj fleck
This is pretty much my list...
We will hire a big name proven head coach. The precedent had been set.
So let's apply what happened in basketball to football. Who are the Buzz Williams "proven coach at the top level who seems like a pipe dream note but looking back in a year we realize we should have seen it coming" coaches?
Off the top of my head, Richt, RichRod, and Chip Kelly seem to fit that bill.
Butch Davis is available, we could hire him before Miami again.
After what happened at UNC he's untouchable for us.... Not to succeed Beamer.
But someone of that stature is on the right track...
Here's a name that... In my bourbon soaked mind could make sense... Kevin Sumlin
And he brings Moorehead back?
Why would Sumlin leave A&M though? The only reason I could think of is that he has always wanted Bud as his DC, but A&M has it going on right now.
If Whit pulls somehow that off though...
Unrest. They were ready to drive him out of town last year. When they lose this year, and they will, the backlash will be brutal.
As I said, just tossing a name out there. It would be a shocking hire, but one that could make sense down the line.
Essentially, he's a "why the hell would he leave _____ to coach at Virginia Tech?!?!??" hire, which fits the Buzz mold.
We won't pay in that range.
^^^This right here. Sumlin makes $5 million a year, I don't see us paying more than $4 million a year for a coach.
And $4 million would shock me. I think we get someone in the high twos or low threes, and I think Whit will do what he can to keep us under three mil if possible. Open the pocketbook but make sure we're getting excellent value.
I agree with those figures. I think $3-3.5 would be the upper range of what we would conceivably offer. This makes me think it will be challenging for us to hire away a slam dunk caliber guy like a Richt, Sumlin, etc. unless they're fired (doubtful) or fed up and willing to take a paycut (doubtful). May be wishful thinking, but this is why I keep hoping, in the back of my mind, that Chip Kelly is fired from the Eagles at the end of the year. Eagles would have to buy out that lucrative contract, so we likely wouldn't have to pay top dollar while he's drawing a massive paycheck from Philadelphia still. I'm sure any school that would be interested in him would use this in negotiations to pay less. The only job I think that could possibly be open that would be head and shoulders better than VT if Beamer retires after this year would be Texas. And I'm still not sure they get rid of Strong this soon. But Kelly is originally from the East Coast, and we would be willing to give him some time to install his system and recruit. Both our program and he have one missing accolade in common: the big trophy. We're also on the verge of a huge makeover by Nike. Our new leadership is rebranding our entire athletic department as we move into this new, modern era for VT. Chip is the perfect guy to sell that vision.
I might be crazy, but I can always keep hoping.
You're not crazy, you're right, but if it becomes a numbers game with regards to salary, VT looses. Maybe we could take a lesson from Zona and pay him business shares, but it seems more likely if Kelly was truly the target, that we'd have to wait till next year, and sell him on the job before we talked money.
If Whit somehow manages to lure Chip Kelly to VT I will, after wetting myself with excitement, up my donation considerably.
Unfortunately, I don't think that's a likely scenario. I think Chip is too experienced and thus too expensive. VT will probably have to pursue a younger, more ambitious coach with limited HC experience due to budgetary restrictions.
My only reservation with Chip, were he to take up the job here, is that I doubt he'll stay very long (3 maybe 4 years). I think we, as fans, have been spoiled by Beamer's nearly 30 year long tenure. That is extremely uncommon this day in age and over the next 2 decades we may very well see 3 or 4 different new coaches. Coaching change and the growing pains that come with it, is something that we will have to get used to. It's not going to be smooth sailing and there is always that chance that we hire someone who doesn't have any success. We're all (okay, I know not everyone is...but the more vocal fans seem to be) calling for Beamer's head at the moment, but there is still a pretty significant chance that 5 years from now we'll be nostalgically pining for those good 'ol days when we had that legendary coach.
Replacing Beamer is not going to be easy. It's not going to be fun. The transition will evoke a lot of emotion among a significant portion of the fan base. The next guy to come in is extremely unlikely to lead us to 10 wins and a conference championship appearance in his first 2 years. I remember when Stinespring was demoted and a handful of offensive coaches were let go the excitement here was almost unbearable. Everyone thought that if we were able to bring in a decent OC we'd be unstoppable with Foster's Defense. That didn't happen the way we wanted it to did it? I think it's foolish to expect immediate drastic changes in the wake of the Beamer Era.
Was Marquette really top level? One conference championship and one elite eight appearance under Buzz. I think that translates more to an established "on the doorstep" coach, which could be either aa midmajor who is tearing it up or a P5 who is doing well in their conference but would be a dark horse for the playoffs.
I agree with you that it will be an established, winning head coach. Whit isn't gambling on a coordinator, I don't think. To be honest, I think Richt and RichRod fit my description a little better than yours, actually. Always a step below the highest level. Kelly having so much BCS experience plus NFL experience puts him at the top of the totem pole. And it still wouldn't surprise me if Whit landed him.
2 Sweet 16's as well though and played in the SEC of basketball at the time. Marquette was basically the basketball version of Georgia except they did serious damage in the tourney under Buzz.
Yeah, that's exactly where I'd put them. If anything, they were the Oregon of college basketball: dangerous as all hell without ever actually winning the big one.
So it would only make sense if we hired Chip then haha.
I mean,
Bo Pellini IS still out there coaching Youngstown State. Somebody is going to give him another P5 job, why not us, Whit has already show a willingness to hire oddball or emotional HC's with Buzz.
Buzz is likeable. Bo Pelini tells entire fanbases to go fuck themselves.
I mean when 67-27 in 7 years and 3 10 win seasons isnt enough in the shit hole state that is Nebraska, at a certain point they deserve to get called out.
WHo knows maybe that is what the fanbase needs, a coach who doesnt take shit, who calls fans out on the example they set to the young men who make life altering decisions based on the feeling of family they see when visiting and then have their names dragged through the mud.
Just a thought.
TL;DR
Two CHoices:
Win Games or Be a cuddly guy.
You get 1.
look at the last coaches to win titles, Saban, Meyer, Fisher, none of them are particularly down home guys besides doing a good interview, but their job is to win football games and the sure as fuck do that.
Yeah, but we already have a fiery, gruff coach on staff, and I'd much rathe promote Bud than hire Pelini.
I'm in the minority who agrees with you about Bo. Wouldn't be a home run hire, but I'd call it a double with a RBI. The Nebraska fan base had mixed emotions about him, but his players loved him, as evident by their tweets when he was let go. Can't think of many coaches who get that kind of reaction.
Edit: He's looking better and better compared to Mike Riley.
From what I understand, Buzz is a bit of an outlier. He did all manner of research and number crunching for basketball programs at schools with no football program. Based on the results, he determined that he needed to go to a school that had one. I also believe he sited that same research when he said we'd fire him in 5-7 years.
I rather doubt we'll find a big time football coach in that mold.
Buzz said we'd fire him in 5-7 years? Why?
The article didn't say. The author was mainly focusing on the eccentricities of Buzz.
Dabo is pretty successful. He was a WR coach and good recruiter. Let's offer Moorehead!
Dabo is a schmuck. He's just a glorified manager that has made very good hires.
God, I hate that man.
I don't know about you, but I want a HC that knows how to make good staff hires
Hard to argue the results.... In what, 1/6th the time he has half the BCS wins and more wins against Top 10 teams than Frank? And he recruits at a higher level than we ever have?
He might be a douche but the man can coach.
At the end of the ND/Clemson game, I heard Herbie say something about Clemson has a 37-6 record over the last how ever many years, with wins over LSU, Georgia, Notre Dame, among others. (I was only half listening as I left the room.)
This was a great stat from Herbie. Since Dabo took over, he has wins against the cream of the crop in college football. Each and every loss from the last three years has always been to a team that ended the season in the top ten.
For everyone who wants send criticism the way of Dabo, just remember that he's been leading one of the most consistent programs in the conference and/or country for the last few years, and they've performed at a high level.
He knows how to hire great coaches and enable them to succeed and the fans at a program with outsized expectations love him.
Dabo may be way better than we give him credit for.
I agree. I didn't think he'd make it at first when he was initially hired. He's proved me (and probably many others) wrong. He is a bit too preachy for me and he annoys me but he's damn good at what he does. I think he's the best young HC in the country right now. I would love to get a guy like Dabo
So preachy Tim Tebow would have commited to him over Meyer.
With one current-era ACC Championship...
And he showed more enthusiasm after the Notre Dame game than Frank has displayed in 15 years. You see why his players love him.
I think he's a clown but you have to respect the results he has delivered.
Dabo's team right now is more relevant than any team we've had since 99. I'd love to have him as our coach.
Deez Nuts?
Start at the top and work your way down. Will you come to VT? If so, how much? If not in budget, keep working down the list.
Harsin
Richt
Shaw
Richrod
Addazio
Fuente
Fitzgerald
Fleck
Herman
Morris
Babers
Hudpeth
I don't think you get past Harsin, but you certainly don't get past Addazio
Literally zero reason we'd even bother offering Harsin, and only marginally more reasons he'd even consider it.
Then. Work. Your. Way. Down. The. List.
There is nothing wrong with starting your search with someone you can't get.
That was more directed at your comment that you didn't think we'd get past Harsin. It's a solid list, but I think the realistic candidates start at Fuentes. Richt is definitely the most viable of the reach candidates, but he's still a hell of a reach.
I totally disagree about Harsin. Is the perception that he's some lifer at Boise? That's not my reading of it at all. Maybe he does a Shaka Smart and waits it out for the optimal job, but he's leaving at some point.
This. People said Chris Petersen was a Boise State lifer, and I get way less a sense of permanence from Harsin that I did from Petersen.
Yeah, but they are both leaving fora PAC job, not an east coast job. They want to coach where they know to recruit well.
I like this list, but I'd like to see us talk to Charlie Strong and Kirby Smart as well.
"Pep Hamilton." He'll leave Colts if he has full control of his team.
Love to see Pep be our HC, although, I doubt he'd be here for long. If he had success here in 2-3 years, I could see him leaving to coach at a 'blue-blood' program, or even in the NFL. That does't mean we should be deterred from pursuing him, just something to consider.
Heck yea, that would be sweet. You mentioned something I that I had forgotten.
These coaches nowadays will leave ANY other school, just to coach in the SEC. You're right. If he came here and did good, he'd leave.
Pat Fitzgerald. Numero Uno. After that, in no particular order: Fuente, Morris, Herman, Doc Holliday (oldish), Phil Montgomery, Matt Rhule is worth watching, Bobby Wilder from ODU (unlikely as all hell, but he's proven he can build a program), PJ Fleck because apparently everyone thinks he deserves consideration, And TONY MOTHERFUCKING FRANKLIN. Guys we'd have an outside shot at if things lined up right: Hugh Freeze and Mark Richt. I'd hire either on the spot.
I think Fitzgerald is 3x less likely to leave NW than Harsin leaving Boise. Fitzgerald may be a NW lifer. He's a legend there.
It's not that I think Harsin won't leave Boise. It's that I don't think he'll leave Boise for the East Coast. He'll end up in the Pac-12 or B1G West.
Been a Pat Fitzgerald fan for years now, happy to see his success acknowledged nationally.
Shane Beamer...............
You know, I have this very sinking feeling in the pit of my stomach, that given recent (lack of) performance, Beamer's "things will change" and waning support...
That IF we lose to NCState, he'll step down and anoint Shame as HC. I know Whit has a lot of say, but something just gives me a bad feeling that this scenario could play out in the next week or so. I hope I'm wrong.
Whit is the only person with any say in the matter. Frank doesn't have any actual say in who replaces him, even in the interim.
I know that...doesn't mean it can't be attempted. Or even played out. Honestly, at 2-4 what would ti change? You think Whit wouldn't entertain this, if Frank felt like he couldn't continue as HC?
Now that I think about it, it might not be that bad. Shame takes over, tanks, and we definitely replace him at the end of the year.
I don't see the point of that. We already have Shane on staff, and they'd still have to pay Beamer.
I'd rather see Beamer decide that it's time.
???
That's what I'm saying...Frank deciding it's time after the NCState game. Leaving us in limbo, and him saying to Whit to make Shame "interim" coach for rest of 2015. There isn't a "point" other than Frank stepping down in the middle of the year.
As far as us having to pay Beamer, his contract is thru Jan 1, 2019.
I'm not sure who downvoted your comment but I had to upvote to negate that downvote.
I said it's only a feeling...a bad one. Bad intuition. I hope it doesn't play out like that. (because if it does, A) Frank is stepping down SOON. B)Shane is in charge, to some extent. C)It means Frank can't finish the year, even on his own terms...
Wow, must have been multiples because I have a upvote on it as well. :/
While all these suggestions are great, I would love to know if VT could actually afford any of the big names being thrown around. I mean, no offense, but we have limited resources, right?
Whit will be willing to pay however much he has and however much it takes. He did it with Tuberville at Cincinnati and he did it at VT with Buzz.
We may not have the money of Texas or Michigan but we have enough to get a big name guy.
Cincinnati leverages the hell out of "loans" from the academic side, that will not fly at VT, something like 40 percent of the budget there came from academic side money.
And in his announcemtn speech for a big time guy, he'll be saying. Buy tickets...donate...we need money. To make sure the alumni base knows it's up to us to keep them happy.
For those curious about our budget and where our athletics money comes from/goes (source):
Groups of coaches that might have interest:
The G5: Guys that have one or two years of experience HC at a G5 team and have shown signs of making them competitive. Fuente-Memphis, Herman-Houston, Morris-SMU, Fleck-Western Michigan
The HC "failures": These are the guys that made it to the top, but didn't quite meet program expectations. Still great coaches, but not to a blue blood expectation. RichRod- Zona, Richt-UGA, Strong-Texas, Kiffin-Bama (claims to have learned a lot about being a "CEO" from Saban)
The Coordinators: Bigger risk here with guys that are making the HC leap, which is why I'm very anti Foster. Genuinely not even sure about options here outside of Foster. Maybe Frost at Oregon, or Venables at Clemson. We don't want to be the program that has to be a coordinators first test.
As far as being a coordinator's first test it seems to be going pretty well for Narduzzi and Pitt thus far. One name you left off which might be a stretch but still a coordinator to consider Kirby Smart. Or maybe Will Muschamp who technically has head coaching experience. Even if that guy is bat s**t crazy.
Someone no one has mentioned (and honestly I hate myself for mentioning it because I think it would be a terrible hire) is Greg Schiano. Yeah he failed miserably in the NFL, but he took Rutgers from literally the bottom of the barrel and made them relevant for even just one year. He is in the same mold as Beamer, (take that for what you will. Try to exclude the recent results.) had some good recruiting classes and some great defenses. I have been a Rutgers fan for most of my life and followed his teams for many years. His faults are many, particularly he can't win the big game, plays quarterback roulette, and is a terrible game manager. But he was also doing all of that at Rutgers. This is just a thought experiment and he is by no means my first choice.
Schiano's recent scandal at Rutgers makes him a complete non-starter here. Trying to get an athlete's grades altered, and bumbling his way through the "I'm using my personal email so we can circumvent public records" comments? I'm surprised Rutgers hasn't outright fired him already.Withdrawn because I can't keep Rutgers head coaches straight.
I think you're thinking of Rutgers' current coach, Kyle Flood. Still, Greg Schiano is pretty low on my list of candidates.
Ah, I am. This is what happens when I TKP before coffee.
For coordinators I'd look at Jeremy Pruitt as well. Current Dc at Georgia and was dc at FSU when they won the chip in '13. Remember the drop off of FSU's defense from '13 to '14 despite returning a ton of talent.
I think you ask coordinators what they learned from those HCs about being CEO, and take the chance if they look to be the best choice (I don't think Foster is a CEO).
I really think there are 2 "slam-dunk" hires, Chip Kelly and Mark Richt. After that, theres a group of really good: Venables, Frost, RichRod, Strong, Morris, Kirby Smart. and a group of solid: Fuente, Herman, Fleck, Foster...
For this post, I'm taking the tactic of looking at SEC coaches who might be interested in coming over to the ACC. The though process being that they're stuck in the middle or bottom of the SEC, and would probably want to become a bigger fish in a smaller pond.
Obviously, we're not even looking at Saban or Miles. Spurrier is most likely at his last stop in South Carolina. I don't see Malzahn leaving Auburn on his own. The Florida coach is too new. Butch Jones at Tennessee is probably only an option if he's unemployed. We probably don't want any coach from Vandy. Bielema -- meh.
Gary Pinkel at Missouri seems content. Numerous division titles, but no conference title. However, he's in the easier division of the SEC, so I doubt he'll want to move.
We've already been discussing Richt and Sumlin.
Hugh Freeze has a good thing going at Ole Miss, but has to deal with Alabama and LSU on a yearly basis. You could probably say the same for Dan Mullen at Miss St. Both of those guys could probably come over for the right price.
Stoops at Kentucky might be interested in not being at a basketball school.
We should ask Pitt. They do this every year.
Yet they still beat us
or just take Narduzzi from them
Here's a divisive suggestion: Paul Johnson
I would literally take anyone else mentioned in this thread (even if not as an actual candidate or possibility) over Coach Chinballs.
Sweet lets call up the dude at Georgia Southern currently, or Coach N from Navy and back a few wheel barrow's full of money into their offices.
At least the Navy coach knows how to beat ECU.
They also know how to knock things down and rebuild. ;)
I feel like there's been so much smoke about "RichRod to VT" for a few years now that I would almost be surprised if it didn't happen now.
Honestly, if you put a gun to my head right now and asked me who the next coach is going to be, I would say Rich Rod. Of course this means nothing, but it makes a lot of sense and although a lot of VT fans would hate it, he would likely be a good fit.
M
oney Money Money tho. RichRod is sitting a huge contract...we'll never be able to match it, soif he comes, it's because he wants to, and that likely makes him the best possible candidate. But it also means the chances are slim.EDIT: I'm an idiot. Franks makes 2mil RR 1.5. We can steal him.
And another mil in business shares each year for 8 years...maybe not....
Mike London has been pretty good for VT, and he'll be available... /s
He can probably help better from where he is, but I think that gravy train is ending.
I actually think this is the year they win...and maybe just maybe give him another extension for it and a bowl...
I dunno man, that Boise State game was just embarrassing.
and Pitt wasn't? 100 total yards....
Doesn't change the fact that UVA is terrible. He is gone after the year.
As embarrassing as the Pitt game was, we only lost by 4 and they lost to Boise by 42. They are really bad, and their fans won't put up with London another year.
Most people just look at the final score. 17-13 isn't as bad as 56-14.
Plus, we didn't have such embarrassing gaffs as our first play of the game being a pick-6 for the other team.
Guys...I think the sad fact is that we don't want to admit that we are a bad football team...100 yards of total offense?! Are you kidding me...that is the sound of irrelevancy my friends. Let's quit being like Beamer and pretending we are a good football team. We are still better than the Hoos, but the gap is looking less and less chasm like...
2 points. First, Why are we thinking that it would be such a reach to get a good coach without the stars having to align the right way (chip kelly)?
I understand why it was that way with the basketball program, but I feel like that we would be in the list of the top 35 football programs overall...you maybe could push us up to peaking into the top 25. We have put 30 names out there and the answer for each one is there's no way we'd get him or him. I feel like we should be at the point to where we don't settle for a roll of the dice on a coordinator or Div 2 coach.
Which leads to #2. I still think we end up screwing this up and giving it to Bud. I feel like its a terrible idea, but your big money is old and the big money loves Bud. I think he's our next HC and I don't think it works out the way we wanted. Don't ask me to explain why (because I don't know why lol), but I think it gets ugly with him in the big chair.
I'm not opposed to Bud at all. He's a little unrefined when talking to the media (relative to a Saban, Urban, Jimbo) but I think (based on past interviews) he has a vision of what he want on both sides of the ball (unlike a Muschamp, for example).
I realize this might be sacrilegious to say this, but is Bud Foster really HC material? Something worth considering, for a long time now, people have known that VT's Defense is susceptible to a run oriented offense. So far this season, every team that could, threw their best runners at us, either as RBs or Mobile QBs and ran over our "D". What has Bud Foster done to remedy this situation? I believe he is a fine DC, but he seems wedded to his system regardless of the personnel on hand. Does this mean he will make a terrible Head Coach. No, but it is something worth considering.
These are basically false. Foster defenses have evolved over time due to changes in the game. We used to absolutely destroy run teams, and then Aaron Rodgers threw for 9000 yards on us. Lately, Bud seems to have gone to the bear front more frequently, and leaves the secondary in man coverage. Sometimes it works, sometimes it doesn't. The reason we keep getting gashed this year is the linebacking corps. Bud can only scheme around talent (or lack thereof) so much. More than that, Bud tends to adjust very well to what he's shown by the offense.
Additionally, all of this has fuck all to do with being head coach. These are nitty gritty coordinator things. Head coaching traits that are important are football IQ, decision making, ability to motivate, and ability to manage a staff. I think Bud has generally shown all of these qualities over his career.
In terms of college football, wouldn't you consider anything longer than a decade, well, as a long time?
In terms of my overall point, I would like a head coach who knows his blind spots and Bud Foster may or may not be aware of this particular blind spot. Specifically, that the bear front is not suited to stop the run this year since everyone in the sports world has talked about it ad nauseum since we beat OSU last season. After the ECU game Coach Foster said he would call the same plays, that the problem in his eyes was that the players were not executing the plays correctly and tackling poorly. So what happens in the Pitt game. Oh that's right, Pitt pulled off a series of long runs to keep our offense off the field and wear out the defense. So either the players were not prepared again, which is on the coaches, or the schemes are not working with the personnel on hand, which incidentally is on the coaches. Either way, it is something that should be considered when people are contemplating the elevation of Coach Foster as the next HC for VT. Don't you think?
No. It should be looked at with regards to retaining him as D-coordinator though, HC or not.
Over the last decade, we've had a top 20 run defense six times (top 10 3 times, and our worst season we were still top half of FBS), top 20 total defense 8 times (top ten 6 times, number 1 twice), and top 20 scoring defense eight times (top ten six times, 1 number 1, and 1 number 2). Bud Foster is doing just fine in every facet of the game. His defensive schemes work when you consider more than just a handful of games. And even in the Pitt game, we held them to 166 yards rushing (60 of that came on two plays), and totally shut down Tyler Boyd. The defense was prepared very well and really only had a couple of hiccups, which were adjusted for very quickly. Though again, none of that has a thing to do with the job of head coach. But if you want to consider his coordinator skills, fine, but do so objectively.
Dude, the defense gave up 17 points and 276 total yards - less points and yards than any other team has given up against Pitt. What more do you want from the defense? Bud could not have realistically done much more to regroup from the last loss.
Edit - to add to that, we got 4 sacks, after previously being 'sackless' this season. We didn't give up one play >10 yards in the fourth qtr. How much more of an adjustment can you ask for? I for one still trust in Bud.
This is a valid question. I've always compared the Position Coach/Coordinator/Head Coach 'evolution' to that of a Auto-mechanic/Auto-engineer/Manager; each of the three positions require knowledge of the same topics, but a completely different skill set is required.
I agree with HightyTighty:
What head coaching skill does Bud not have?
He has to be missing some HC trait because he has interviewed or been considered by several teams and never landed the HC gig. Though, maybe his interviewing skills just suck? I wouldn't to sit across the table from him and ask him his top 3 weaknesses.
This has been addressed several times. WVU hired the guy that was interim head coach instead of Bud. Clemson hired interim coach Dabo. He never had a real shot at Pitt when he got the interview because he snubbed them the year before. None of these situations indicates that Bud isn't head coach material, and should really stop being thrown around like its damning evidence.
Please see my reply to the previous poster. Thank you.
God i hope im loaded some day and can invest in VT football like the recent shot Oregon has received. Thats my damn dream. to make it enviable for any coach in the NCAA to come to da burg and win
I feel like part of the reason we don't have that is since our success is so "relatively recent." We made the national title game in '99, so figure the 2000s where when Tech was really popular. That is a 25 year window of graduates that are 100% genuinely interested in the football team. Now obviously there are more graduates from earlier but IMO those from that title game on aren't old enough yet to have that stupid amount of money to just throw at the athletic dept. It's my dream one day to be able to do that, just like you. However I'm not going to be looking to be making any kind of significant money for a long long time. I know I've racked up the kind of debt that makes you nauseous just thinking about after college, a master's degree and now two years of medical school. And oh yeah I still have 2 more years of debt to incur prior to even getting a paycheck. One day I hope to be able to give back to the school the financial support that they need but for me personally I think at minimum I'm gonna need a 20 year buffer before I can dream of something like that.
I may be a bit of an extreme case but your average graduate nowadays just isn't at the level yet to be donating that kind of money. But count me in on your dream. One day....
I've shared this line of thinking as well. I was at the tail end of the "good run" (class of 2011) and I know some Hokies from the 98-2011 era that genuinely want to contribute to the university and athletics in a big way but they're just not there financially yet. It's not that they're not donating, because I know they are, but the big donations are still coming from the older captain-of-industry types. It'll take time but that big run will definitely pay dividends later on.
I like PJ Fleck and Bronco Mendenhall. I also believe those are pretty reasonable and attainable coaches.
Guys guys guys (and girls). Who is a current coach at a mid major who always plays and often beats multiple p5 teams? A guy with an exciting offense and always plays well above their talent level? An east coaster with an intimate knowledge of the VT roster?
Ruffin McNeal for VT hc
/s - he would never leave his alma mater to coach against them for another 50 years
Big iF, IF, Fuente pulls off a win over Ole Miss, AND qualifies Memphis for a New Year's Bowl, he still be a very competitive ticket to buy. He is also in SEC country. If Bielema/Richt/Spurrier are gone, Fuente salary wise will be tough to match.
If Richt is out at Georgia, then I won't mind losing out on Fuente, because it means Richt will be available. For a reasonable price too.
I don't understand the hype around Richt. It's not a bad hire, but it's not great either. He hasn't gotten UGA near a national championship, and they have every advantage a football program could possibly have.
To me, he's a stable head coach that delivers consistently good results in a tough conference. He has the highest floor of any potential hire, and shows enough that we could reasonably expect a playoff appearance under Richt.
But hes never taken that step that great coaches do where they play at a level higher than they "should" with their talent. He plays right at their talent level, and he's not going to be bringing in that kind of talent in Blacksburg
The Georgia fanbase complains about Richt almost as much as VT does about Beamer now. I talked with a Georgia alum who wouldn't stop telling me how "richt never brings in the top recruits, can't win the big games." If he was hired VT fans would be able to pretty much copy/paste their forum posts for entirety of his tenure
Yeah I really don't understand the infatuation with Richt. Especially since the only way we'd get him is if he's fired. I don't know why people want a coach who isn't getting it done somewhere else. If people want a championship team we need a championship coach. I don't think a coach looking to rebound after being terminated screams championship quality. But I'm not an AD so what do I know?
Because he has succeeded. The level of success that Richt has achieved at UGA is pretty impressive. He is 140-49 in his 14.4 seasons. He has taken UGA to three Sugar Bowls. He has finished first in the SEC East 6 times. He has finished in the top 10 seven times. He is 9-5 in bowl games. I don't know how to look up his recruiting successes, but we all should be pretty aware of how they do. Basically always in the top 10. And, finally, two additional points: Mark Richt always has good running backs (and, god, how we ache for a good running back right about now) and less important, but notable....Mark Richt is a helluva guy. For all the people out there who say they want someone to do it the right way or they are worried about RichRod getting in trouble with the NCAA (for practicing his players too hard!), then you better support Mark Richt. Many people remember, but the Richt's have two children on their own and adopted two children from Ukraine. Their daughter, Anya, has a rare disorder known as proteus syndrome.
Failing at UGA would be a success at VT. UGA fans are upset with Richt because he's not Saban. That doesn't mean he is a failure.
I don't have any problem with Richt, the individual, at all. He sounds just like Beamer. But I thought we, as fans, want VT to get to the playoff and contend for National Titles. Isn't that what Georgia also wants? Isn't that why they, just like us, are pining for their coach to leave because, even though he's good, he's not as great as they want him to be? Richt might be a helluva guy and he would probably make a damn good Hokie. But if we're upset with 20-straight bowl appearances and a bunch of 10-win seasons because it's not good enough, Richt isn't the answer.
Also, I think Richt, at 55, is too old of a target here. I think we need a younger guy who we can lean on to coach with lots of energy for the next 10-15 years or more. I think a guy in his early to mid 40s would be perfect.
If Hokie fans are "upset with 20-straight bowl appearances and a bunch of 10-win seasons because it's not good enough" then they are delusional.
The character of this hire has changed dramatically in the last 12 months. No longer are we looking for the next guy who will take us up a notch, win that national title. We are looking for that next guy who can make us relevant in our division, or conference and maybe in the country. We aren't looking for a guy who can take us from 10 to 12 wins, we are looking for a guy who can take us from 6 to 8 wins.
The fact that we may actually pick a coach who makes us nationally relevant, gets us into the ACC-CG with a chance to get into the playoff is gravy. When Patterson and Briles and Whittingham and Swinney were hired, they probably were not hired with thoughts of national championships, but they are right there in it.
And, with Richt specifically, there is a distinct consideration that playing in the SEC is what keeps him from reaching those levels. We have to remember one of the advantages of VT is that we play 4-6 tough games a year (for a good VT team) whereas UGA plays 8.
Maybe he's too old at 55. I don't think so, if we can get 5-8 years out of the next coach, we should be very pleased. There are stats in baseball that say that after year 5, your manager loses his edge and certainly by year 8. I think that is what Buzz was saying about we would eventually fire him. Frankly, I don't think a coach being anywhere for more than 10 years is all that healthy. VT has been stuck in the "we need to keep our coaches!" mentality ever since Beamer to UNC was a thing. We have hired assistants just because we could keep them (Shane, Newsome, Brown, MOC come to mind). We need to get past that. If we hire a coach and somebody comes and hires him away, that's not the worst thing in the world. Look at AMo. Great young coach, gone after 2 years, but it was worth it for us. Same thing for the next HC.
I don't agree with this. The SEC has the best teams in the country but the conference is not deep. Just because they play in the SEC doesn't mean they play more tough games than VT.
This is Georgia's schedule for this year
Louisiana-Monroe
Vanderbilt
South Carolina
Southern University
Alabama
Tennessee
Missouri
Florida
Kentucky
Auburn
Georgia Southern
Georgia Tech
I've bolded the games that I think you could reasonably consider tough this year.
Here is VT's schedule for this year
Ohio State
Furman
Purdue
East Carolina
Pitt
NC State
Miami
Duke
Boston College
Georgia Tech
North Carolina
UVa
I don't think you can make the argument that Georgia has to play twice as many tough games as VT. They may have a tougher route to their conference championship game than VT does but IMO Richt hasn't done anything special at UGA. I don't think Georgia's schedule is heads and shoulders above VT's. The SEC bias certainly inflates their SOS but when you consider how many actually tough games they have it's really not that different. At least Beamer was able to keep his team within 2 scores of an Alabama team that ended up winning the national title. On a neutral field. I don't see Richt as an upgrade. I see Richt as a 15 year younger version of Beamer. I think we can do better.
Okay. Don't support Mark Richt then. And I don't mean that to be snarky. If you think we can do better than Beamer in his prime, by all means...wish away. I hope we do. I'm also not convinced that Richt at VT couldn't do better than Beamer did. But I'm more convinced that Richt would keep us relevant in the ACC. Richt is high floor, potentially lower ceiling. A guy like Justin Fuente is looooowww floor, high ceiling. A guy like Nick Saban is high floor, high ceiling and obviously unattainable. I don't think you can get all three -- high floor + high ceiling + attainable.
I personally agree with VPIhokieME, I don't think Richt could take our program to a new place. He's gotten slightly better results than prime Beamer with tremendously more resources, and a slightly more challenging schedule. I do think he's underachieved at UGA.
There's about 12 schools that have what UGA has in terms of local recruiting base, alumni base, reputation, donors etc: UGA, USC, Texas, OSU, Michigan, Miami, UF, FSU, Alabama, Auburn, Oklahoma, Notre Dame. UGA is one of the three schools here that has not won a BCS national title.
I think our goal is to hire a coach that can bring us a national title. I personally do not have confidence that Richt can do that for us.
weren't you the one who said we should be able to get a good candidate because VT football is an attractive job? To reinforce that sentiment you also said this
Yet you keep going on about how Richt should be able to do what Beamer did. But Beamer is past his prime? What's to say Richt isn't? I'm not saying that Richt would be a bad coach for us. I'm just not understanding the hype over him. To me, he sounds like Beamer and Beamer has been steadily flaming out over the last 10 years. Why do you think Richt wouldn't have the exact same problem? He's only 15 years younger. If Richt came to VT, it would probably be his last job before he retires. With that mentality he might be putting it in cruise control.
My real issue with Richt isn't based on the fact UGA fans are ready to get him the hell outta Athens. I want a young guy with a lot of energy and a vision to jolt this program's culture and get it moving in the right direction again. I don't think Richt fits that bill. Sure he's a good coach but I think we can do better. I also think that you think we can do better.
Oh yeah, we're an attractive job. We differ on how we would hire.
I value experience and a high floor, someone who will get us back to relevancy. Because being relevant is nice and that doesn't discount getting us in the playoff. If I recall, you want Dabo Swinney, which I believe is a complete non starter. He would never come here, but if he would, I would take him. Extrapolating from your Dabo Swinney recommendation, I assume you are looking for a young coach with energy with upside who has experience in a p5 school. I am trying to think of other comps: Freeze, Sumlin, Mora, Helfrich, Dantonio, Patterson, Briles (I think he's older though), Fisher.....maybe more. I would say basically all of them aren't realistic considerations.
I think we are looking for as much of a balance between high floor, high ceiling and someone we can get. I don't think Richt has a low ceiling. He has an exceptionally high floor. And (if UGA wants him gone), we can get him. Swinney has a high floor, high ceiling and we can't get him. Fuente has a high ceiling, low floor and we can get him. Richt isn't #1 on my list, Harsin is because he's got a high floor, high ceiling and I think we can get him (I know there is disagreement on that point). Addazio is a high floor, comparatively low ceiling and we can get him. That's why I always say he's the worst case, in my mind, and that's pretty good.
You're mostly right about my preferences. I never said that I wanted Dabo the man himself. I threw his name out as an example of the type of coach we would like to have. I agree that he's unattainable here. You're pretty much spot on otherwise. I do want someone younger and more energetic.
When you start talking about floors, though, I'm not completely in agreement with Richt having a high floor. I would have said that about Beamer 5 years ago and look at where we are now. I think Richt and Beamer are super similar in that regard. bar1990 made the comment above that Richt has basically done the same thing as Beamer but with more resources. I don't know if that bodes well for us.
I would love to get someone like Harsin but, you're right, I'm not sure we can lure him here. Then again, I don't know how much more valuable a P5 job is over coaching at your alma mater. Maybe he'd jump ship for a shot at the playoff. Maybe he truly believes he can get Boise into the dance without being in a P5 conference. Who knows? I think it's unlikely but I'd welcome him with open arms.
Tom Herman might be another guy who I initially thought was untouchable but could possibly be lured. I'd say he probably has a high floor and a high ceiling. That would be good.
I'm not sure I agree that we can get Addazio. He's in the middle of a rebuild at BC and I'm not entirely sure he'd be willing to take yet another rebuild in the same conference at a similar school. Maybe if he was a bit younger? IDK. I'm not as confident as you that he'd consider the VT job.
I think the worst case would be going after someone with high ceiling low floor and never realizing the ceiling part of the deal. At the same time, though, I would almost rather go for someone young and energetic with a high ceiling. Risk, Reward.
I'll go ahead and say that Harsin is very near the top of my list but I'm much less convinced that we could snag him from Boise.
Yeah, sooo are we not going to talk about how you bolded ECU and BC but not USCe, Mizz, Ken, or AUB?
LOL like serious Orange & Maroon glasses there. Those 4 teams would mop us up and down the field.
He didn't bold Pitt, NCSU, Duke or UNC either, which are arguably the #2 through #5 best teams we play.
every team we play from here on out will be a tough game for us. I have no clue looking at that schedule if we get to 6 wins.. and that's pretty tough to admit
I just thought it was funny that he didn't bold Pitt.
USCe is like NCState. Mizz is like UNC. Ken is like Duke. AUB has been terrible this year. They might not even go bowling.
Did you not notice that Duke and Carolina beat GT in each of the previous weeks? Not sure how you bold GT and neither of those. Not to mention Pitt who just beat us.
I don't think many people are upset with 10 win seasons, we're not exactly at that level anymore...
I also think realistic expectations are that our next coach is around for 5-7 years based on the current coaching climate.
To compare, Frank's record from 93-07, a 15 year span, he was 143-45. Let VT to a National Title game as well as 4 other Sugar/Orange Bowls. Along the way there were 3 Big East and 2 ACC titles and finished in the top 10 6 times.
Yep, and if we can get Frank Beamer's best years out of the next coach, we should be jumping through hoops to do so.
So, more of the same????
The trophy case is still empty...
We are 2-3 and just had 100 yards of offense in a game. So, no, not more of the same. Please.
Point that Richt could bring the same results that Beamer had. (not recently.) And those results haven't producer a crystal trophy for either one. The more of the same is going to a major bowl every three years to lose, while posting around 10 wins a year. Sure, that was nice, and happy that Frank was the man that did that. But once he leaves, it times to go fill the trophy case. Richt isn't the one that can accomplish that, in my opinion. And hoping that we stay the course over those 15 years that Beamer brought us is accepting mediocrity. I can't do that.
Who is your coach who you know is going to fill that trophy case?
I don't have one, but that's why we have Whit.
Banging the drum to bring Richt in is calling for more of the same.
Find a guy that give us a chance! Along with that may be a higher chance of failing, but also a higher chance of success. (Rich Rod hasn't won a darn thing either!!!!)
I'm sorry man, but you have to lower your expectations with this next hire. We didn't have a "down season" after being nationally relevant for 10-15 years, the program has tanked. I would be happy if we can get Richt (or another coach) to make us relevant again and then we can start talking about playoffs and crystal balls. Hires like Auburn had with Malzahn where they come in and immediately turn the program around 180 degrees are very, very rare.
Look at the way Clemson has done it, barely relevant to average for many years. Dabo and Morris come in. Relevant, in the title conversation, but definitely not what you would call serious contenders. NOW, after 4 (5?) years, we are starting to see Clemson turn into a FSU type school that you expect to seriously compete for a spot year in and year out. I am very envious of Clemson fans the past few years, and you should be too.
But hey, still no crystal ball so obviously there program is a failure.
Plus, you know, Malzahn had already been the OC at Auburn, so when he came back, he had mostly his own players, running the same system.
I'm not expecting or "requiring" a new coach to come in and fill the case within 2 years.
But, if we hire Richt, and he puts up back to back 5-7 seasons. No bowls. No progress from where we are now. And, he *gasp* losses twice to loluva. What then? Let's be up front...we don't have deep talent right now to go out and win 10 games. How much rope does a top tier hire like Richt get? Very little. Say he goes 7-5 and 8-4. Is that enough? What will it take to "accept" him for a 5 year term? Pulling a 4-star that plays 2 years? Getting talent but not winning games?
While that is a fair question to ask, that question will be applied to whichever coach we hire.
Also, you say we don't have enough talent on this team to win 10 games, but also say a top tier hire like Richt would have a short leash. Wouldn't a lack of talent mean he should get more years? Or are you saying that you are worried about how our administration will treat the new hire and not necessarily worried about how the new hire will perform.
A "name" hire will have a short leash. Are you willing to give a Richt or Rich Rod 5 years to win 10 games? I doubt it. If either of them went 12-14 in their first 2 years, there would be pitchforks all around. And I truly don't believe we have the talent to do otherwise. Maybe I'll be surpirsed, and whomever is coaching will pull more than 15 wins in their first two seasons. Maybe. I'm willing to give a no-name more rope, and allow them to build something. With a "name" not so much. And they would most likely be run out quicker. That puts us right back in a hole.
Do you think this team, or last year, or next year is capable of winning 10 games, given any coach? Why set up a big $$$$ hire for failure and a few more years of frustration as Hokie fans. Let a new coach build it up, just like Frank, but to much higher levels in the long run.
I think we go this route... hire a coach whose name is starting to gain ground and let him go 3-5 years.
there are some good names out there and with a good amount of big name university's probably looking for a new HC this year it will be interesting to see who acts quickly and who gets stuck in the dust,
Teams that could have a HC vacancy after this year..
Maryland
Miami
Auburn
Oregon
VT
Purdue
LOLVA
Texas- doubtful, strong will get 1-2 more years unless Chip Kelly or Chad are available now.
South Carolina
Agreed.
I will say the "stuck in the dust" doesn't bother me that much given who will be looking; on all sides. Let EVERYONE come out of the woodwork, and see who's ready next year. Not because they HAVE to jump, but because they, and VT, are ready for a 5 year partnership. If it is known that we are hiring after loluva in 2016, potential suitors can get their stuff together and know what's coming. They won't feel obliged to interview and take a UMD job in the B1G because they weren't aware what our time frame is for hiring. "Oh look, a lot of money at a big school in a big conference...I need more $$$$$ so I'll take it."
If someone feels they want/desrve/can handle the VT job, make it a true long-time search. Not a fill-because-we-HAVE-to proposition. The candidate can be vetted for a full season. Frank can have his swan song season including Bristol. The recruits will know what they are up against for a coaching change. (Let's not diminish this aspect of things. Frank isn't hurting or helping at this point, but it's not helping or hurting...if you know what I mean. Who knows how much longer he will be here, which brings doubt, which could lead a kid to a different school. And hiring a hot-shot 3-year guy hurts us for a few cycles if/when they leave down the road.) The new coach can hit the ground running because they want to be at VT, not because they-need-a-job-because-they-are-a-coach.-and-some-big-school-dangled-a-carrot.
If we don't make a bowl game Beamer is gone 100%... the comments about exhibition games was coach speak but spoken the wrong way. It can be taken as we still have ACC ahead of us and that's what we're going for. Miss on the ACC and a Bowl game then what really do we have going for us other than a hyped game vs Tennessee in Bristol.
Whit has said once Beamer is ready to call it/steps down he will still have a job/be part of the VT program. With that said he has a possibility to still be a big part of the Bristol game > grand marshall/marquee name without it doing more damage to an already sinking team.
I think Whit's already had a couple conversations with some people (not sauces just my opinion) seems like the way things are done in the Football Business. If Whit has a top 5 and I'm sure he does and 1 or 2 of those top 5 are available then he pulls the trigger and we have a new coach in 16.
The biggest rock/snowball that will get more information out of Blacksburg is our next 3 games. If we go 2-1 it'll probably stay just a quiet. If we go 1-2 or even 0-3 then the pressure will get even bigger and we will have to win out to become bowl eligible with the last 4 games coming against the strongest part of our schedule.
I think you forgot that we play LOLUVA at the end of the year...
of course, this year it's not looking at all like that's a gimme :(
looking at how UVA's season has gone its a little like ours..
Loss to UCLA- who came out on fire.
Late LOLVA style loss to ND
beat FCS team
then got a taste of Boise
I think you're giving Richt more credit as a coach than he deserves.
I expect ourselves to rebuild the program much like Clemson has (be an annual contender after a few years of rebuilding). I don't think Richt is capable of doing that. I have not felt that UGA was a serious contender to win the SEC in the past 10 years. That's not a coach I want at my school.
The playoffs change things IMO. You get a conference championship now and you're much closer to getting the trophy case filled than before.
FIFY
How much is RR's contract? Don't think he makes FB money.
http://espn.go.com/college-football/story/_/id/7269857/arizona-wildcats-...
http://www.usatoday.com/story/sports/college/2014/05/28/arizona-extends-...
Damn...he only makes 1.5-2mil annually. i was told he was making 4. Should have looked it up sooner. Franks makes 2 per year. We can totally swipe him.
I expect we will pay more than Frank makes as well. The entire athletic budget is at risk. We have been getting good value out of Beamer for many years.
Buzz makes like 5x what JJ made.
JJ made like a third of what Seth made tho right? Regardless, when the switch is made, Whit will ask the alumni to donate, buy tickets, and support the teams.
There was some talk on here, and maybe someone will have links...RichRod has some back end deals. Like, he's tied into the school as a whole and stands to make a lot of money in an unconventional way.
Like when an actor agrees to take a percentage of the box office.
If they shitcan him, he gets to take the library and two dining halls with him. #sources.
I'm pretty sure Arizona doesn't have a library.
Leg to you both for making me giggle amid a seriously depressing thread...
Good call, bluehokie. RichRod has a unique deal for compensation. I noted it a few days ago on here, let me see if I can grab some links...
...
here you go...
http://bleacherreport.com/articles/2083140-rich-rodriguezs-unorthodox-ne...
Rich Rod will make more by staying at AZ than we can ever offer him. If his shares of a 'master limited partnership' appreciate over time, he would be somewhere around the highest paid coach in the history of college football.
Read up everyone, the numbers aren't there for us to get Rich Rod
So structurally, it's similar to Foster's annuity that just got paid out recently, in that the trigger is simple longevity. The difference is a high dollar donor and shares in a limited master partnership.
I know you're saying it doesn't make any sense for RichRod to leave Arizona because of this deal, but is there anything preventing a similar package to be put together by VT as an offer?
EDIT: Just thought about this. RR's stake in the partnership is currently valued at 6 million and change. If you add that to his base salary, staggered over eight years, you've matched the current value of his incentive. If that wasn't sufficient to tempt him away, you could float a payout at the end of eight years that matches the difference between the appraised value of his stake in the partnership now and the value at the payout date, with some safeguards for the university should the partnership value skyrocket.
I'm just saying, there's more than one way to make competitive offers against RR's current contract.
Good points. I'm not sure where we'd get that money though. I do expect the valuation of RR's stake to improve, as well as potentially his salary. If it goes downhill, then we could be in play if we can find the dough.
Is Arizona a school with a disproportionately high number of benefactors? I'm certain a similar partnership could be put together with business ventures in either the NoVa area or the 757. All we need is a high dollar donor eager for change. There simply has to be some out there .
Just going to throw this out there about RR's MLP stake which is in Western Refining Logistics LP. The shares then were $35.36 which made the deal worth 6 million at time of signing. But its in an oil and gas MLP so as of today the shares are worth $23.17 or just a little over 4 million.
Then so be it. Richrod would be a good choice, but there are a lot of good choices out there.
I seriously beg to differ. Other than Kiffin, Bobby Petrino and Brian Kelley, there is no currently no active head coach or coordinator disapprove of more than RichRod.
EDIT: I think I'd rather have RichRod than Edsal. He's still in my top 5 least favorite active coaches
He makes $3.1 million and is coaching at his alma mater, but I'd love to hire this man:
Just heard about 500,000 Maroon and Orange panties hit the floor.
I will throw out a different name. What about someone like Ben McAdoo from the NY Giants? Not sure he would leave the NFL as a coordinator for a college HC position but he comes from the McCarthy and Coughlin coaching tree and would be an awesome get if we could pull it off.
I wouldn't mind looking at an NFL coach to take over after Frank Beamer. I'm a packers fan, so i'd be that guy who'd normally recommend someone like philbin (the dolphins coach about to be canned...as crazy as it sounds given how he has squandered a talented dolphins squad... I mean jim mora jr was canned twice in the pros and has been good for UCLA) or tom clements who as a packers fan has done a very solid job playcalling for the packers (then again he does have aaron rodgers and lacy to work with...but still). But how about someone like Greg Roman on the Bills? He's done a great job with Tyrod Taylor, who frankly is the style of QB we typically we end up with at VT (you know, the Kaepernick/Taylor type who is a dual threat).
Packers fan here too.
Hear me out. Ron Zook. Currently coaching GB special teams.
You are going to have convince me of that. I remember Ron Zook at Illinois, and outside maybe one year when Juice Williams was their QB I don't recall that program being good at all.
I was completely joking lol
You don't remember Zook as the Hokies' DC and Asst Head Coach?
I watched the Bills game on Sunday and I have to say that I was not very impressed with Greg Roman's play calling. Very predictable and pretty much no success in the first half.
Torrian Gray
haha
Being in the Memphis area and having seen first hand what Fuente has done with what has been a horrible football program has earned him my vote. Imagine what he could do at a school with football facilities. Not to mention he has Texas connections and is showing the ability to keep guys at home and to even grab a recruit or two in tough SEC country. On top of those things he's proven an ability here to take two and three stars and coach them up which is something desperately needed at VT currently. There have been some great names tossed around and I'd get behind a Richt or Kelly etc. but thinking realistically Fuente would be a good possibility with potential.
Out of curiosity, why not give Bud Foster a shot? Frankly outside a game here or there he's done an excellent job with our defense, he definitely still has that fire that Frank Beamer lacks, and personally I don't see the harm in letting him take over and seeing how we do. I see the candidates that have been brought up in this thread, and unless we land someone like Richt, RichRod, or Fuente, and maybe a few others mentioned the remaining candidates either seem very unrealistic or nothing that really entices me. I get the feeling that we want to clean house and bring in a fresh staff that has ambition to bring up program back up to the highs experienced under Frank Beamer in his prime (and beyond), but I think Bud Foster with an actual competent offensive coordinator, and a few strong recruiters in the staff can accomplish that for us. BF isn't on the top of my wishlist, but frankly I can't say I would be upset if we ended up moving forward with him. Frankly I'm not convinced he sticks around should we get a new HC outside VT, and I think he's a good motivator and a solid coach. Maybe not my top choice exactly, but just food for thought.
I figured I'd start putting some numbers into the conversation, to go along with the "actually available" part of the topic.
Chip Kelly - looks like $6.5 million per year from Philly. It's a five year deal. He's currently in year 3.
Link: Chip Kelly's contract
I don't know what his price would be to come back to the college ranks. If VT is only comfortable in the $3 mil range, maybe we could get him for a few years, if Philly is still paying him for that last year or two, and maybe we would "save" the money in one year and roll it into the next. Obviously, we wouldn't be able to make that a long term deal without some significant adjustments to the athletic budget.
----
SEC Coaches:
Link: Salary Database
Using 2014 numbers, Mark Richt is just under $5.5 mil a year. Freeze, Mullen, and Pinkel all average $3 mil per year. Mark Stoops gets $2.1 mil.
(Assuming I'm looking at the right numbers that would compare apples to apples.)
----
Fuente at Memphis makes $1 mil, per the same link above.
All this tells me it's that we are about to join the Big boys in coaching salary.
All these predictions of only being able to pay $3 million.. Not feasible. Not for the one sport that actually makes this school some money. The bank will be opened and we will pay high dollar for our next coach. If we are paying 2.5m for a coach in a sport that is a money drain, we will pay at least double that for a coach in a sport that funds the whole athletic department.
Believe me, cost will not be a limiting factor in our coaching search. Not with Whit in charge.
I agree, I said it earlier that this was the CEO for a $25M business. I'm not even sure that is accurate. Our athletic budget is like $75M and football basically funds all of that. Whit is the CEO of a $75M business, he needs to find the VP in charge of 90% of the department that creates something like 90% of his revenue.
I think we've got $4M, and that will get about anyone who would consider coming to VT in the first place and probably nudge some guys like Harsin who may be inclined to wait for another job. For $4M, Richt will take as his landing spot if UGA finally cuts him loose.
As much as I would love to land Richt, unless they completely tank this year and/or next year there's no chance he's gone. He just signed a contract extension in January through 2019...
Lol if you think richt can elevate our program after only producing 2 sec championships (both of which were a long time ago, 2002 and 2005) while having the easiest path to the sec championship every single year and with all the resources and talent he has there.
Chip will be coaching at Texas this time next year. He is going to need a reset button, Texas will be looking, and money is no issue.
I wouldn't be surprised to see Everett Withers' name come up as an option. He's doing well at JMU right now. Didn't Whit go to JMU? So there's that connection. Plus, I don't see why Whit wouldn't follow the Beamer Mold and bring in a guy who has some HC experience at the FCS level
Kurt Roper - can't believe his name hasn't come up yet. Duke/Florida OC.
The guy isn't just from the Cutcliffe tree he is the whole root ball practically! Coached Eli as a QB coach when he was at Ole Miss under Cutcliffe. Offensive assistant in the SEC since 1996 with the exception of Assistant Head Coach at Duke '08-13...under Cutcliffe. Brought them out of Mediocrity and recruited phenomenally. Played halFSU in 13 ACC Championship game and lost but got Duke there. Sean Renfree, Jamison Crowder and bringing Jake McGhee to Florida from lolUVA was all him. Currently with the Cleveland Browns, after 19 years previously in college football I doubt he wants to be in the NFL. Only 43 years old, has a Masters, could get him on the cheap and take a seemingly smart calculated risk with a very well seasoned high level assistant now with a year of NFL experience. I say get him before UVA does.
Arians would be a great get but at 63 he's too old realistically.
Structuring a contract that brings and keeps RiRod would be a good choice as well.
Go Hokies!
That's interesting
I don't get this love affair with Rich Rod or Mark Richt. If you can't even win your Division with Staford, AJ Green and Moreno what can you do with less talent?
I kind of understand Richt I will NEVER understand the desire to being someone like Rich Rod to Blacksburg.
I was *just* about to ask this. Why is everybody throwing on their Richt capes?
yeah, I don't get it either. I don't really see what he's done at UGA that makes him a big target for us. I also would like to avoid RichRod like the plague
"He coaches at Georgia so he must be good!"
Only argument I'll make for Rich Rod is that at least his on-the-field product would be fun to watch.
In 14 seasons at Georgia so far, he had one 6-7 year, and all of the rest have been a minimum of 8 wins. Yet despite that, Georgia fans have been in an uproar more than once to fire him.
Looking at his life off the field, he seems like a genuinely decent human being, which is the type of character we claim to like around these parts.
So, he's got a decent resume, would probably fit into our culture very well, and also has recruiting connections in Georgia, which apparently is turning into quite the hotbed of talent.
Spot on.... The 'hot' names mentioned here do not fit Whit's 'swing for the fences' type hire he made with Buzz. Richt is comfortable in his own skin- I get the feeling coaching is not something he needs for self fulfillment and will walk when its time vs being fired or forced out. Perfect transition from Beamer to stabilize the program and set the stage for a younger 'hot' hire.
Sure he's not won the big one or even SEC but would we have a shot if had recently?
#10 Arizona went to the Fiesta Bowl last year, winning 10 games for only the 2nd time in program history, in RichRod's 3rd season.
If he's our coach, he would have us playing at a high level, fast. Its what he does.
RR has been known to take over for legendary coaches stepping down (Nehlen/Carr), but has NOT been good at turning them around fast.
His record in the first year of each of those jobs? 3-8 (WVU) and 3-9 (Michigan). It isn't like they were in a world of trouble either. WVU was 7-5 the previous year, Michigan 9-4. I don't see this playing out the way you mention it - but hey, maybe the third time is a charm.
For people who don't think Richt or RichRod is any good, who do you actually like? Because unless you pick Urban Meyer or Nick Saban, we can then pick apart your candidates credentials.
Dabo
Dabo is in line to get an interview at Bama once Saban leaves.
I don't really see how that's an issue with his credentials...and Saban will still be on the sidelines in Tuscaloosa well after Beamer leaves his perch. Do I think we'll pursue or even land Dabo, though? No, not at all.
But he's exactly the type of coach VT needs. Somebody who is young and energetic and smart enough to know that he needs to surround himself with top-notch staff. A guy who can motivate and appeal to recruits and players. Somebody who will inject the program with some energy and excitement and get everyone (I mean everyone, staff, players, administration, fans, etc.) to buy into the program. The trouble is, I think Clemson took a bit of a chance with Dabo. There was no guarantee that he was going to be nearly as successful as he turned out to be. I'd say Clemson got lucky.
VT did that once almost 30 years ago. Took a chance on a guy that nobody believed in. And you know what? he proved everyone wrong and elevated the program to a place nobody ever expected it could get to. It's comically tragic how the end will be for Beamer. He's the reason that our expectations are so high. He's the reason fans are calling for his head. What irony!!
Does VT capture lightning in a bottle two times in a row? Whit's next 2 decisions are going to be the biggest ones he makes for VT, and probably also his career. They could make or break this program. It will be interesting to see how it plays out. I think VT is perilously close to nose-diving into mediocrity and setting up camp. It could be a long climb back to the top of the ACC...and the ACC isn't even that good. This program is nearing the precipice and we don't know whether Whit has wings to fly or whether he'll plummet this program to the bottom. But, with anything like this, only time will tell.
And to that I want to add this.
I hope that Beamer does step down this year. Honestly. He's done so so much for this School and this Football program. He deserves every bit of the HOF chatter that he'll inevitably get.
I also hope that we hire someone who can take this program to the next level. I really do. Do I think it's possible? Yes. I think VT is in a position now where we can attract a talented enough guy with the right amount of ambition to get VT back into the big dance.
And when that happens, I sincerely hope that Frank Beamer is on the sideline when we play in the national championship. Not as a coach, but as an Icon and a Legend. And I hope that the next coach recognizes that none of this would ever have been possible without Frank and his dedication to the program. I want so badly for Frank to have the opportunity to hoist a Championship trophy over his head. I think VT can get there. I don't think Frank has enough in the tank to do it on his own, though. I think he needs to pass the reigns, but dammit, if the next guy is successful, he'll owe a heck of a lot of that to Beamer. We all will.
I agree completely. With both posts.
I do think that someone should point out that the coach before Beamer (Bill Dooley) took VT to three bowl games, and that was when you could win 8 games and STILL not go to a bowl game. VT had some great success under him, and won 10 games his last year. He left under the cloud of some recruiting violations, though. VT was actually pretty good then, was occasionally in the top 25, that kind of thing. VT wasn't what it is now, but they did have a decent team before that was built by prior coaches.
Are you advocating for a Dabo type? Or Dabo? If it's a Dabo type, I totally agree. PJ Fleck looks like a perfect comp.
If you are saying we should hire Dabo Swinney, then I don't think that's realistic. I do think its odd that there are those here who don't think Dabo is good enough for VT. He's weird and potentially kinda dumb, but he knows what he's doing and would bring a much needed zest for the job to VT. But he would have no reason to even consider a move to VT from Clemson right now. They are superior in every way. Maybe that isn't what you are saying.
As this thread demonstrates, there are lots of perception issues in conflict. For instance, I don't think there is any way we could get Dabo or Chip Kelly, so I don't even discuss them. Others think we couldn't get Richt. Others think we can't get Harsin. In the end, none of us will really know.
nobody knows anything. it's all speculation. But its a lot more fun talking about who we want and who we think we can get than why we lost to Pitt last week...
We have to at least try for Chad Morris. He's too good to not go for it and if we don't get him somebody else will, soon.
Texas is more likely to get him than we are. Texas has more resources and they have the benefit of being in the state of Texas.
What? Texas won't mess with Chad Morris. Texas will fire Strong because they once again believe they can get Saban. They might not, but they will offer Saban $10M. Chad Morris is a trailer in Giles County when Texas is shopping for penthouses with Central Park views.
Texas won't fuck this up again. They will go first to Saban, then to Urban and Miles and Brian Kelly. Maybe then they go to Dabo....but the guy I expect they will end up with is Hugh Freeze.
Okay, let me rephrase that. If anybody is going to lure Chad Morris in as the new HC, it will more likely be any school in Texas than Virginia Tech. Chad Morris is from Texas and that's clearly where he wants to be. He's not going to leave SMU for VT. I'm not saying Texas wants him, but if they did want him, he'd likely take that job in a heartbeat. I don't think the same could be said for VT.
Agreed, he would be a good fit at Texas Tech if handsome boy ever leaves.
Texas alums didn't want Art Briles because he's a "high school coach" so they certainly won't go for Morris.
Hugh Freeze is never leaving Ole Miss.
I agree with you that Texas will go after big names. Morris will not be it. Didn't Morris say that VT would be his dream job? I don't see why we wouldn't offer him.
When did Morris ever say that? I mean, I'd take it but I thought he was all about the state of Texas.
I remember hearing that Chad Morris quote, too, but I can never find the source. Would have probably been around the time Brewer transferred here, IIRC. Whether or not that's been propagated from "message board rumor" to "quote by Morris" remains unclear to me.
I am sure I read that during his last year at Clemson. dunno. My memory is pretty damn good, but without confirmation it's just rumor.
I saw an article talking about how Morris recommended Brewer to VT. He spoke highly of VT and clearly had reverence for Beamer. Outside of that, there was no indication that he was remotely interested in coaching at VT. I haven't been able to find anything else on the topic except this. Everything points to him wanting to stay in Texas.
Edit: I also found this article with some Chad Morris quotes that make it pretty clear he doesn't want to leave Texas.
He doesn't even mention Virginia, but even the ones he mentions aren't good enough. He has to be in Texas.
Looks like it might have originated on 24/7, maybe something said behind a paywall, but I dug this up:
http://virginiatech.247sports.com/Reply/JNaisawa-Reply-39703762
After which a reply states:
implying that it's coming from 24/7.
So... #marinades.
247 flavors of #sauces
This is a VT fan's dream, not Chad Morris's or Bud Foster's dream.
The last thing I want is to hire somebody who just got fired from somewhere. I want the next HC at VT to be taking a promotion after having success elsewhere. Not looking for getting somebody else's trash. The ONLY exception I could tolerate would be if we went after Chip Kelly. That's a special case though. I don't want Richt, or Strong or anybody else who might be on the chopping block.
I agree completely, and someone who will stick around for awhile. I believe if Rich Rod, Strong, Kelly, Morris (insert any other big name that we would never get anyway) has success within 2-3 years at VT, they'll bolt when other big dogs come barking. I respect the hell out of Mark Richt and his faith and character. Having said that he cannot for some reason measure up to expectations. In my opinion he should've had at least 2 natty's by now with the talent he gets especially considering the SEC didn't become the conference they are now until 2006.
I think you pick the best available guy for the job who can take advantage of VT's strengths and recruit.
Tomorrow is another day. Don't assume they have to be a VT grad in order to have success at VT. It's a good job, with a good fan base, a family atmosphere, and community/university support.
Rod Carey at Northern Illinois? He's learned how to win being a part of 7 straight bowl games and winning in the MAC.
Which ties into the Dina Babers connection whith Carey & Northern Illinois.
Would Tuberville come work for Whit again? Lots of connections he could bring.
Finally got down the thread far enough to find a Tuberville mention. Seems to be turning Cincy around, but his age could be a limiting factor.
Well there's an article in the AJC this morning talking about UGA getting rid of Richt after this seasonbecause he keeps losing big games to Saban (who doesn't lose to Saban more than they win? Not many). Maybe before if they lose to Tennessee or Florida.
I'd love to have Richt when Beamer retires. If it coincides that Richt is available after this season, I say the future is now if they can get Richt.
Richt to VT seems like Andy Reid to the Chiefs. The Eagles just got stale and needed to take a chance to get to the next level. The Chiefs gladly took Reid because it brought them back to relevancy.
I look at Richt as VT would be getting a known, very good head coach. He's also been top notch in terms of player discipline, etc. Spurrier once quipped the best part of playing UGA early each season is that a few players are always suspended!
Richt is a good man. He'd be a good fit.
I do want to clarify - I'm not clamoring for getting rid of Beamer now. My thoughts on Beamer are that he hasn't lost it, it's just his age and uncertainty over how long he and his staff are going to be here have taken a toll on recruiting. I remember back in 2006, we were down, going up against a hot Clemson team. We'd looked like sh*t the week before. Reports indicated Beamer had come down from his watch tower and personally gotten involved with all the team drills, one on one coaching, etc. He interjected himself a lot more instead of letting his assistants do their thing.
We came out and smoked Clemson rather nicely. The man can coach and knows how to get it done. My biggest criticism since then has been that he should be more intimately involved regularly because the team responds well when he does from what I've seen. I just wonder, at his age and given that he's obviously having health issues, how much is left in the tank for him to do it?
And would he better off if he retired, focused on resting/saving his energy so his body can use it to get healthy again. I'd rather have a retired, healthy again Frank than a sick/dead Frank regardless of wins/loses on the field.
Whelp, Joe Philbin is now available.
Totally see this guy everytime....
Every coach is technically available, the question is do you have enough money to buy them. So when you look at it that way, I believe you first need to see what our maximum salary could be and go from there.
Rich Rod baby! Whit was assistant AD at West Virginia with Rich Rod before Whit left for Cincy. They are great buddies! Just think, and offensive mind in Blacksburg!!!!!
Why? Please explain why you want the Rich Rod culture here at Tech.
I like him. He's entertaining, a great talker, seems really sincere. And you're going to get actual information when he talks.
His offense is exciting and it's run based. We wouldn't be worrying about which RB to choose, they all would be good. And it could be a great fit for Motley/Lawson next year and Jackson down the road.
I get it that people don't personally like him. I see that he's divisive in that way. I also see that he failed miserably at Michigan. The last couple of years have been good at Arizona, but they are struggling currently. Of course, he filled in for Nehlan extraordinarily.
He's not a perfect fit, but I would be really excited to get him. And looking at Whit Babcock's previous two major hires (Tuberville and Buzz), he seems to like guys who have led major programs and have strong personalities. Richrod would fit that description well.
Every time I see a picture of him, I cringe inside a little bit. I don't know if I could handle the amount of cringing if he was hired at VT. Might have to listen to all the games on the radio....
I feel the exact same way.
In one way, I'm hoping RichRod will flame out as a coach so he can be an announcer. He would kill it.
The year he was out of football he was part of CBS Sports Network's (the cable channel) studio crew and was awesome.
I like him. He's entertaining, a great talker, seems really sincere. And you're going to get actual information when he talks.
That's good and all but, has absolutely nothing to do with fielding a good football team or Beamer wouldn't have been as successful as he has been. At WVU, if memory serves he brought WVU close to the big game once? Then blew it to an unranked Pitt team in 2007. Michigan was a dumpster fire and he's had one season at Arizona where he took them to a big bowl? Thanks but no thanks, I'll pass.
Again, who do you like? Because if they have "won the big game" then they probably don't want to go here. If you don't think RichRod (or Richt or Chip Kelly or whichever actually accomplished coach you don't personally like), then it is either because you:
1. Only think we should hire Saban or Urban Meyer. Besides those two, everyone else is a failure in comparison.
2. Think we should take a chance on a less experienced coach like Hudpeth or Morris or a coordinator. That's a fine strategy and has worked previously at other places, but it is not in keeping with the history of Whit Babcock. Whit likes experienced coaches in charge of his biggest assets.
I like Bud Foster, if not him then option 2.
Uh . . . OFFENSE!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!! Maybe finally have an offense to go with the defense??????????
RichRod isn't the only person in the world who could really bring an offense to Blacksburg. There are other candidates who would be less abrasive. RichRod is also not the type to stick around at an institution for a long time. I'm sure Whit will at least entertain the idea of hiring him since there is some history between the two but I sincerely hope we get somebody else. My wishlist includes some candidates who I feel are highly unlikely to leave their current jobs for VT (Chad Morris, Bryan Harsin, Tom Herman) but they're all better fits for VT than RichRod IMO and they're all capable of putting points on the board. I know that conventional wisdom says Whit will hire someone who has some HC experience but I wouldn't be surprised if he hired an up-and-comer type similar to Dabo. Somebody who is driven, can connect with players and the fan-base, and can build a competent staff. He'll want someone who has energy and a vision to retool the culture here at Virginia Tech. I don't necessarily think that Whit will go after specific candidates known for their offensive brilliance, as much as we would all love that.
But, first and foremost, Whit needs to decide whether he's going to push Beamer out at the end of this year, next year, or even further down the road (when does Beamer's contract run out? 2019?). That's the first major decision Whit has to make. IF this season continues the way it has started I would expect a business man like Whit to cut losses and begin moving in another direction sooner rather than later. If we miss a bowl game or even lose to UVa (Gasp!!) I would expect to have a new HC before Bristol. If we finish .500 or better then I could see how that decision becomes more difficult. IF Beamer somehow turns things around and wins out, including an ACC Championship and Bowl win I think we can all live with him continuing to coach in 2016. I'm sure that Whit is very attentively watching this season. He should know which route he's going to take by the middle of November.
Great points. We finished last season at .500 and won the bowl game, and we were sold on this season with all the returning young talent, guys returning from injury and getting fully healthy, and the potential of this team from the unexpected win on the road vs OSU. Both Whit and Frank concluded at the end of the season that expectations are bigger than that, and we were promised improvement in 2015. If we finish .500 again, barely making a bowl game, I don't see how we can use anything to suggest a brighter outlook in 2016 on the present course. We can't use the youth and injury excuses forever, and there is no impressive top 10 victory to give anyone the benefit of the doubt. I think, right now, it's going to take an 8-9 win season and possibly a return to Charlotte in order to secure Beamer's return in 2016. I just don't see how anyone could possibly justify one more year of the same trajectory, given the disappointment of this year, just for the sake of Beamer coaching a big game or two next year. The long-term interests of the program are at stake at this point.
Wooohhh wooohhhh woooohhhh.....
You don't think Chad Morris would leave SMU for VT? You don't think Tom Herman would leave Houston for VT?
You sir have a very low perspective on VT football.
Chad Morris WANTS to be in Texas. My perspective on VT football is irrelevant here. Why would a guy, who just got a HC gig in Texas, the state he WANTS to be in, take a semi-rebuild HC gig in Virginia? That doesn't make any sense. I seriously doubt we could get him up here. Let me put it this way. I seriously doubt that, if Urban decides to retire next year, OSU (provided they wanted him) could get Chad Morris. He WANTS to be in Texas that much.
Tom Herman I'm not so sure about. He might be our best bet at a quality coach who is offensive minded but I don't know what would draw him to VT...He would be a great get IMO but he could probably do better (I'll let my perspective of VT football show here a little) because VT doesn't have the donor base or resources that a lot of P5 programs have. If Tom Herman wants to coach at a P5 program and he knows what he's worth (which, as a Mensa Member, I'm sure he knows) he'll bide his time for the right job at an institution that has robust and proven resources.
Okay, I got to the point where you said Urban Meyer couldn't get Chad Morris.
Our perspectives on this point are clearly divergent.
Hey, I'd love to be wrong. But I'll bet you a rail that Chad Morris will not be our next HC. Not even on staff here. I'm not even convinced that Whit will pursue him, but if he does, I doubt we get him. This entire topic is just conjecture anyway.
Tom Herman is starting to sound better and better though...would love to get him, or someone like him, to Blacksburg.
I'm also of the opinion that we need a new HC sooner rather than later. What are your thoughts on that?
We don't have any choice but to move Frank along this year. We can't do another year of this, deluding our most valuable brand and resource. It shouldn't even be that tough of a conversation, Whit was pretty clear in the offseason that 6-7 wins wasn't good enough and that he was going to be watching recruiting closely to make sure it didn't start to slip. We very well may not get to 6 wins and recruiting most certainly is slipping.
I'll reiterate, at worst by Jan 1 2016, Steve Addazio will be our coach. We will be tough as balls and win 7-9 games every year and we will be feared. That's the worst case scenario. We also stand a good chance, IMO, of getting Harsin, Richt, Shaw or RichRod. If we get Harsin, not only will the sky be the limit to what we can accomplish, it will be really fun again.
VT is a very attractive job. We have a healthy athletics department and will pay the going rate for a top 25 coach. We are connected well to numerous recruiting regions (757, NC, PA, FL) with potential to expand. We have good talent on the team (think of RichRod with Lawson). We are in a fortunate division where there is no legitimate power. And I think Whit himself is a guy people are going to want to work for.
I agree that this should be Beamer's last year. I'm not yet convinced that it will be.
I'm not sure I agree with your 'worst case scenario' though. I think the 'worst case' is that by January 2017 we have some young unproven guy as the HC and he has promise but just can't produce. Whit could take a risk on a guy like that and it could go horribly wrong. (I doubt that happens, but I think that's a worse case than Addazio in Jan 2016.)
Of the 4 you mention I think I would want Harsin or Shaw the most and Richt the least. I don't really want RichRod because I think he's volatile and I'd be immediately worried about sanctions or him skipping town for some shiny new job after a year or two. That being said, the man can put points on the board. I like that. Richt, IMO, is too old and I've been underwhelmed with him at UGA. UGA should be doing what we want to do, and they haven't been. I think it could be argued that UGA is a superior program to VT in many regards so it would follow that if Richt can't do it at UGA he won't be able to do it at VT. I'm skeptical if we could lure Harsin or Shaw but I'd be absolutely welcoming of either one of them.
You do a wonderful job of painting VT in a great light. I think you make some really good points about the pros of the program. I think Beamer has definitely built a pretty solid foundation here at VT. I still think the budget is limited. VT just doesn't have the donor base to run with the 'big dogs' yet. It's something that Whit knows is important and if there is a guy who can get us to the next level I believe it's him but it will take a long time. I think that there are lots of reasons that a coach might want to come to VT but I'm also erring on the side of caution because I'm acutely aware of our financial limitations. I hope that we can get another home-run hire out of Whit. He's proven his ability to bring in a coach who exceeded our expectations once before. Let's see if he does it again.
Brian Polian. current Nevada HC. Coached under O'Leary at UCF, Weis at ND, at Stanford under Harbaugh and Shaw, and TAMU under Sumlin. Has coached STs, LBs, RBs, and safties. His Nevada teams don't look good, but he's been a good STs coach, and definitely has the pedigree...
I think cds7c is spot with his assessment of potential coaches.
I think worrying budget with Babcock is not wise.... I'll remind everyone that James Johnson was making sub $800k I believe, and when we saw Buzz mentioned and looked at his $2.6 mil salary most said 'pipe dream'. And that was BASKETBALL. Bobcock will hit it of the park and we'll get a big name that most feel is out of our league.
Whit also has a connection with Tommy Tuberville...
I am a big fan of Tubs but he's not the enthusiastic guy VT needs. I also think he's very happy where he is.
This is the most common rumor among TSL/247 insiders.
Lincoln Riley, he was stupidly successful at ECU and by the looks of it he's continuing that trend at OU. His salary is only 500k which would allow Tech to possibly offer 1.5-2.5m a year and still leave a reasonable amount for coordinators.
I'd say he's still a little green. But, hey, Air Raid. Could be fun...
French might curl up and die.
From the great movie (one an Illinois man should appreciate)
Any offense that consistently works would be acceptable to me. I thought we had one this year until Saturday.
Rich Rod
*ducks
If he had a better comprehension of the NCAA rules, maybe it would be a discussion point...Maybe.
I'd suggest people read "Three and Out: Rich Rodriguez and the Michigan Wolverines in the Crucible of College Football"
Sure made me feel like RR got a raw deal at both WV and Michigan.
Even if it was a raw deal, it was targeted at him and his programs. I don't want to be the third in his trail.
A couple names...
Kyle Whittingham-- just agreed to an extension till 2018.. Whittingham will earn $2.6 million in 2015 with an automatic $100,000 increase each year, making the four-year deal worth a total of $11 million.
Don't know if he would leave what he's built in Utah..
Stoops is a name I could see.. Mark or Bob
Okay, I read this to say that if we offer $3.5M we get Kyle Whittingham. Which is very doable.
Yes, the VT athletic department is currently posting a 700k profit. But Frank's paycheck is still going to be 250K a year after he stops being head coach. That puts our upper edge of salary available for a new coach to be 3 mil a year not 3.5.
I don't want to dip into the red to get a coach. Sorry, but one of the few things that Weaver did right was balance the books.
I don't think it's quite so linear. If it was, it would be tough to justify the increase between JJ and Buzz.
Whit's got a better handle on this than any of us do, but when you've got a $75M company that has one department that funds 90% (guesstimate) of it, you must invest in that department. Talk about going in the red, hire the wrong coach because of $500K difference in salary (that may be funded directly from the Hokie Club anyway). Is the Hokie Club paying Frank after he retires or VT athletics? Seems like his role as ambassador may be specifically crafted to come from the HC pot.
Just going by the admittedly limited data we have from Whit's previous hires, he isn't afraid to spend money (went from $750K for JJ to $2.3M for Buzz) and he likes known names with experience at a similar level of competition (Buzz, Tuberville). He paid Tuberville $1.6M, which was what they were paying Butch Jones.
Not a head coach and probably not a candidate for VT, but I wouldn't be surprised to see DJ Durkin's name start to pop up for head coaching vacancies.
Seems like DJ Durkin can coach his butt off. 3 years as a defensive coordinator, 2 top 15 defenses at Florida and now his Michigan D might be the best in the country. Based on his resume, I'd guess his first HC job would be in the MAC or low-level Big Ten
Being part of the Harbaugh and Meyer coaching trees doesn't hurt, either. And he's only 37.
How about former Hokie and current Louisville defensive coordinator Todd Grantham? He played for Beamer so he'd fit into the culture fairly easily. His Louisville D was 6th in the Nation last year and his 2011 UGA D was 5th in the country. I could see him and Bud collaborating to make some ferocious defenses. Grantham is also a bit of a hothead, so I'm sure he could bring the fire.
Not a bad idea.
this is my only hang up with your argument. I think VT needs a culture change.
We need a kick in the culture!
Eh...there needs to be some change within the football program, but a new coach still needs to fit into the overall culture of the university and surrounding community.
Sure, I want a guy who will fit into the Ut Prosim culture but I also think we need someone who will bring a fresh energy to the football program. And some mean-ness. I feel like VT Football has grown soft and stale over the last 10 years. The program needs a jolt. But I agree with you that we also need someone who will mesh with VT. That's part of why I don't understand the RichRod support. I don't think he fits the Ut Prosim culture....
Bill Cowher. Isn't he living in NC anyway?
A defensive minded coach would mean Bud is gone, he can D coordinate anywhere he wants most likely. Why not try to win a Natty somewhere as a dcoor?
We need to approach the HC decision with who has the highest floor with a possible breakout ceiling.
Whit hired Buzz, and has said repeatedly that Bud would get the same shot as everybody else. I'm going to trust his decision making process
Let me lead this comment off by saying this is nothing but hearsay. Completely unsubstantiated at this point and completely open to criticism and as a matter of fact, I hope someone can poke some holes in this.
A good friend of mine is a pretty significant donor to the athletic program and we were talking about CFB's future. He was pretty confident in saying that Beamer would be gone at the end of the year, not entirely due to coaching, but because of illness. Once again, that's completely unsubstantiated and could be nothing but hearsay. He also mentioned that Fuente was a leading candidate for the position.
Is that a #sauce or #marinade?
totally #marinade. I think Frank needs to step down but man, I would be super upset if it was due to his health.
would anyone take Dan Mullen?
dude has done a pretty good job at Miss St. Was a coach under Urban at Utah, Offensive coordinator at UF so he would definitely have the resume.
The only issue I see is he is making 4.2 Mill a year
Maybe work something in with the new Nike deal for the rebranding???
(And this could work for anyone we hire, to add a little more to the package.)
Mullen was recently asked if he had any interest in the job and said no I do believe. There are talks going on behind the scene. Whit is working quietly about it.
#insider?
I'll pass.
If we are looking for a 5 year guy, I don't have any issue with Doc Holliday coming over from Marshall.
He's 27-6 the past 3 seasons, with a conference title, Florida, DC and 757 connections, both coaching and recruiting. His time at NCState produced school records for receiving. At Florida he was named one of the top 25 recruiters. And at Marshall he's brought in some talent from not-West VA. His base salary is 600k, so it would be step up for him and we could afford him. Let him select a staff, and there could be a good one from that bunch to handle the next round at VT.
Doc Holliday would be a solid hire - I like it more and more. I like that he's, 3-0 in bowl games, and has recruiting ties to our area. He was an assistant head coach under Urban Meyer, who I hate, but must admit that he is a good coach.
I want our next hire to be someone who I can envision taking us to a national championship. I'm not positive that Holliday could, but I don't doubt it. He's definitely of the Dabo mold - he doesn't have any experience as a coordinator, so we'd need to dish out cash for the right staff.
TL;DR - I'm not opposed.
I like his recruiting ability. He's got deep ties to Florida too...that's a nice pipeline of talent to have.
Chip Kelly, probably won't go back to the NFL again if he goes back down to college. He will land somewhere at a P5.
Look at Spurrier - He was hot at Florida, went to the Redskins and stunk up the place, back to South Carolina. Though his South Carolina record isn't as good.
I wouldn't mind seeing Mike Tomlin. Young, Local roots (VMI, W&M, and from Hampton) - This would help recruiting. I know Pittsburgh is getting itchy over him as well. His contract is up at the end of 2016.
Though it would be a pay cut from the 5.6-6M he is making there.
I see Mike Tomlin getting another NFL job if things go south with the Steelers.
But with Whit in charge, I don't see it being a definite "NO". More like a "highly unlikely".
Mike Tomlin would be a great choice, but seeing as he hasn't coached in college since 2000, I doubt he'd take this job, even if he was fired.
Chip Kelly is 100% not happening.
Things are really falling apart for Spurrier right now. Not sure I'd wanna go that route.
Plus, Spurrier is older than Beamer. He's at his final coaching job.
He seems more spry than Beamer. But yeah you're completely right.
See: Cheatin' Pete Carroll
Joe Lanza
French and Mason can be the coordinators.
If we really want to make this program better, we need a coach that can recruit the hell out of the east coast. We can't lose the big fish to FSU, Ohio State, Alabama, etc. anymore. We need a coach that can compete with the best of the best when it comes to recruiting. I'm not talking about the idiot that is coaching at UVA that can't develop talent. I'm talking about someone like Kirby Smart.
Tech will ALWAYS lose some kids to blue chip programs from out of state it is the nature of college football.
A good recruiter wouldn't bat .000 against the blue chip programs when it comes to recruiting. I'm talking 5 star talent. Not some 4 star corner who picked VT over playing 18th string corner at OSU. Stop having such a homer mentality.
I don't think you two disagree. He said we will always lose some recruits to the big boys, which is 100% correct. You are saying we shouldn't bat .000 against them, which is also correct.
Randy Edsall looks to be available after this weekend
Steal the decade - Mark Dantonio
Why would he leave a top 5 team in the Big 10
1. He will always play second fiddle to Izzo at MSU
2 MSU will always be step brother to UM in state and nationally - Harbaugh only makes this gap bigger
3. Easier path to conference titles and national playoff - removing OSU, Michigan, Wisconsin from the schedule
From his Wiki page...