After Virginia Tech's 13-17 loss to Pittsburgh, Hokies' head coach Frank Beamer promised changes. At Virginia Tech's weekly press conference on Monday, Beamer announced nickel Greg Stroman would move to wide receiver for the remainder of the season.
"Yeah, we've taken (Greg) Stroman, he's gonna be a wide receiver full-time. I think he's a great play-maker," Beamer said. "He's our punt returner. He's a good defensive back, there's no question about that. And I told him we'd meet again before spring and decide where he wants to go from there. But right now, I feel like getting some playmakers on the offense is, we need that."
Tech has lacked serviceable wide receiver play beyond starters Isiah Ford and Cam Phillips all season; an issue Beamer Co. has been aware of since before preseason camp.
"How well we develop the wide receiver position will be a big part of our football team," Beamer said at ACC Kickoff.
| RECEIVING | GP-GS | NO. | YARDS | AVG | TD | LONG | AVG/G |
|---|---|---|---|---|---|---|---|
| Isaiah Ford | 5-5 | 24 | 382 | 15.9 | 3 | 61 | 76.4 |
| Cam Phillips | 5-4 | 16 | 214 | 13.4 | 1 | 60 | 42.8 |
| Bucky Hodges | 5-5 | 12 | 174 | 14.5 | 2 | 46 | 34.8 |
| Ryan Malleck | 5-5 | 9 | 120 | 13.3 | 2 | 40 | 24.0 |
| Sam Rogers | 5-1 | 7 | 89 | 12.7 | 1 | 51 | 17.8 |
| Travon McMillian | 5-1 | 6 | 30 | 5.0 | 0 | 9 | 6.0 |
| Kalvin Cline | 5-0 | 1 | 31 | 31.0 | 0 | 31 | 6.2 |
| Kevin Asante | 5-0 | 1 | 13 | 13.0 | 0 | 13 | 2.6 |
| Brenden Motley | 5-4 | 1 | 13 | 13.0 | 0 | 13 | 2.6 |
| Trey Edmunds | 5-0 | 1 | 8 | 8.0 | 0 | 8 | 1.6 |
| Demitri Knowles | 2-0 | 1 | 7 | 7.0 | 0 | 7 | 3.5 |
| Total | 5 | 79 | 1081 | 13.7 | 9 | 61 | 216.2 |
Through five games, Beamer and his staff have leveraged its tight ends as receiving options to address the hole in the depth chart after Ford and Phillips.
Beamer added he'd like to see true freshman backer Tremaine Edmunds get more burn.
"Tremaine Edmunds, I can tell you, we want him to come along," Beamer said. "He's a talented guy. We'd like to get him more plays in there, like to see him challenge a little more at linebacker. He's just a freshman. It's just so much as a linebacker, everything's going on around you. If we could bring him along a little faster, I think he would be a guy."
Additionally, left tackle Yosuah Nijman is in line for more playing time.
"Nijman, offensive tackle, talking about a 6'7" athletic guy. We can get him in there and play more. Give him an opportunity...He's another one, it's just a learning deal."
Comments
I hope there are more significant changes than these coming!
Really.
He has been a liability this season. I cringe seeing him in the secondary or returning punts.
I did not see this move coming, but I don't think it'll help us or hinder us in any way. Next man up.
Returning punts, why?
He runs backward more often than not...
He also rarely knows when to call for a fair catch. Even last year I remember him getting clobbered multiple times at Duke when he should have called for it.
Not sure if we have any better options. I thought Greg to be elusive and make people miss in space. Not sure how good his hands are but he hasn't muffed any punts if I recall. Have you seen him run jet sweeps yet?
Well he is a great return man, maybe better than Jarrett was. It just seems high risk/high reward.
Been trying to do too much without much blocking and facing unconventional punts...he's been very reliable as far as fielding ball...has also saved us yds by cleanly picking up bouncing punts that could've gone a lot deeper. He also made a nice play on the ball for pick vs ECU. I think he needs ball in his hands more, then maybe he'll improve as PR...he was very good at PR last yr, seems to be pressing a bit this yr
His first moves are always laterally or backwards, I feel like he never gets up field. I also cannot stand how rarely he calls for a fair catch. An extra 2 yards on the return isnt worth much to me when he constantly seems like a candidate to get clobbered and fumble instead of calling the fair catch.
Our offense is enough of a turnover liability as is. We dont need to cough it up on special teams and give the defense that much shorter of a field to defend.
Yes, definitely some work to do on fair catches, but I'll take that aggressive, going to make something happen, attitude about now. And hope it spreads across the offensive line.
agreed. Aggressive play maker is what we need right now.
I suggested this right after the OSU game. He looks incredibly raw as a DB, and I think his talents are better suited to offense where we are still struggling to find a 3rd WR. Seems like a very logical move at this point.
Seemed logical at the beginning of the season. The way edmunds looked, should...would...coulda...
Two of these moves are no-brainers. I like Stroman a lot with the ball in his hands. Need to develop opportunities for him.
But more playing time for Tremaine Edmunds at Backer? At Mike, I could understand it. But from my novice perspective, it looked like Deon Clarke was the best defensive player on the field last week.
Hopefully he can stretch the field with his speed.
Hopefully he is competent enough to get on the field so Ford and Phillips don't have to log 75 snaps a game.
Of course, very possible Frank meant Mike and said 'backer'...
I thought Stroman was really good in Military Bowl. We really need another playmaker there. I love Ford and Phillips but I would not call them 'explosive' or consider them guys with the hips that Stroman has. Deon Newsome has it but who knows what the heck happened to him.
I agree where is Deon Newsome?
Just a typical quarterback in high school who Beamer and Co. recruited as an athlete (aka WR), and hasn't panned out. Im really pulling for the guy though, he's only a sophomore.
Newsome is a legacy too. The strategy sometimes works, you have a kid like Hodges (who I don't buy as much of a QB out of high school), who will most likely play on Sundays.
I think it has to do with overall lack of talent at high school. If you have a talented kid who is a playmaker, QB or RB seems to be their position. WR I think is harder, as you would need another playmaker that can throw, and TE even less. Plus, TE isn't as sexy in high school. I played TE and a lot more blocking (at least at my school) except for the occasional bootleg, TE across, or out. Lot of pattern running with not a lot of delivery, as the HS QB may not get to their later reads.
Anyway, HS coaches be like "I can win with you here."
He was really effective on a few jet sweeps last year, and I think we all know that McMillian has taken over that responsibility.
We're a team full of HS QBs playing everywhere else.
Considering in a lot of high schools, especially small ones, the best athlete plays QB, this really isn't saying much.
Yeah, but for all the complaining I hear/read here about us signing guys that played one position in HS but end up being positionless "athletes" in college....
Also, none of our players who were HS QBs went to small schools. #ijs
Every linebacker between Timbuktu and Pittsburgh knows McMillian has taken over those duties.
For purposes of rest, I believe. Clarke needs a break from sacking QBs every once in a while.
Clarke to whip, Tremaine to backer vs bigger teams...is what I'd like. Ronny VDyke has been a disappointment in run D
I love him returning punts, we have always had aggressive punt returners. I also liked what little we saw of him on offense last year and I am excited about this move. He's fast, elusive, and a playmaker. He has been a liability in coverage mostly from a strength standpoint in winning jump balls/gaining position but he wasn't as bad as his bad game against ECU made him out to be. He's instinctive and I'm excited about his potential on offense. I think we are in good hands with Terrell Edmunds/Mook Reynolds/Donovan Riley. I also like these other moves, although I'm all for getting Edmunds some reps but I do like Deon Clarke at backer.
edit: I don't necessarily think this is permanent btw, he probably will end up being a really good corner at some point.
If it's not permanent it's a complete waste of time. He seems to be dynamic so I would like to get the ball in his hands more but flipping positions back and forth rarely, if ever, pays off.
I agree with this. Unfortunately this is already in motion. If it were up to me I would keep him at corner, but I'm just trying to be optimistic given the circumstances.
I think this is a terrible idea. Stroman has promise at corner, and spent 2 years learning the position after being a quarterback in high school. Now, to assume he can add something as a receiver with no experience as a route runner. This takes a talented potential corner out of the equation to just add another guy who can run a jet sweep (see McMillian, Newsome) and doesn't address the issue of no actual receivers behind Ford and Phillips.
I agree, but you have to like seeing a sense of urgency. I think making Stroman the jet sweep guy frees McMillian to become the every down back we all want to see. Or, at least, one can hope.
sense of urgency OR sense of desperation? While I appreciate CFB is trying to make some changes, I'm smelling a bit of the latter here...
How about Loeffler just ball up the jet sweep page of the playbook and throw that shit in the trash can. Enough of this east to west bullshit. LB's are too damn fast at this level to run that kind of mess, particularly with terrible blocking....i.e. the pitt game.
I think I kind of feel the way you do. I mean, they wouldn't have moved him unless he could do more than that (hopefully), but just like the Joel Caleb move, it's just a waste IMO. Here's hoping they prove me wrong.
Well, he's currently getting the hell beat out of him at corner, so....
His feet seemed to be positioned well. We may not have played a team that will expose his replacement's feet positioning / athleticism yet.
TG felt like he was the man to start a week ago. Now he is being "pushed" to offense.
Not picking on your post, but to me I worry about the good coaches starting to look when their judgment gets called out / ignored /etc. Secondly, this has no impact upon the strength of our offense. We may put the kid in the slot and he may perform, but we have others who could do the same.
Its just a politics move... which to me is not a VT thing at all.
Show me a TE heavy formation that we try and run behind with a traditional O formation, etc., etc. Something anything that shows you are realistically trying to fix what didn't work or compensate for what didn't work. But moving guys around contrary to the advice of your coaches. Yeah.... ummmm.... I'm going to say political moves sans XO modifications that make sense means Whit lowers his standards if he has to this offseason.
We play a wide variety of both defenses and offenses. A better showing against BC may be the change Whit wants to see. Otherwise its hard to see if we learned how to play better against a team like Pitt. We hung in this game...just didn't offer much hope of winning it. We get S-stomped against BC with no good fundamental adjustments... that will be telling.
While I trust our defensive coaches on their judgment, I'm not surprised that any solid statements from before the Pitt game are being rescinded now.
I think some of the WR issues have to do with guys not responding to the coaching change. Again although many have issue with Knowles the guy had been productive before being demoted. The only guys getting run are the new kids who have only been coached by the new guy. If you really look at it Phillips has been no more productive than knowles had been. You could argue that his year 13 was as good if not better than Phillips 14. If Phillips was clearly better than the older guys then it was up to the new coach to help motivate those guys and make sure they felt needed, valued by the team. Cutting snaps back to almost nill was/is not going to do the trick. By the way I think the move had as much to do with the play of edmunds as well as the good news on the recruiting front as it did the WR status.
I see where you're coming from and have been wondering why in the spring and pre-season they talk stuff up, but it never happens. Whatever the problems are, weren't they fixed? Why aren't back up QB's ready for game action? What's with communication errors on the line. As well, where are those two and three tight end sets? Where is the hurry up offense that helps to befuddle and tire out big boy D's such as Pitt? And when are we going to end that useless formation shifting? It just wears us out instead and has no one fooled on the other side.
Is Frank grasping at straws hoping to assuage those that hold control of his future and the rest of us shrieking crows? We all hope not, but this Stroman move needed to have been done long ago, or Knowles put on the field because he has a history and the speed to make something happen unless he has somehow fallen off a cliff.
And to the head guy: Oh, Frank take control. Make your coordinators take control too. Get the other coaches to do their jobs of getting their players ready, and no last minute surprises amongst your staff And above all, no excuses. Play to win. I think your team has what it takes to get it done. Do you?
I'm onboard with discontent, but you're kind of all over the place here.
Even after Pitt, Motley has a passer rating of 134.62. He's been the only spark on the offense. He's been more than ready to play. Meanwhile, Dwayne Lawson is a true freshman who is in over his head with the system right now.
We've seen Malleck and Bucky on the field together more often than not, and we do have a 3TE goal line package we've shown in the red zone.
We've run no huddle in every game this season. We don't stay in it all game, but we do run it. Running hurry up in a game like we had against Pitt just gets us through the 3 and out that much faster.
This is just untrue. The pre-snap shifts have had receivers open all season long, and have allowed Motley to post some good passing numbers. It was even working against Pitt. Ford and Phillips were running wide open all day, Motley just didn't have time to find them with pressure all up in his grill all day. The shifts have been working as designed. They should stay.
He just doesn't have the size and strength required for the position. If he could add another 30lbs, then maybe.
I had always believed the rush to direct the WR focus to Ford and Philips was a bad move. Ford is a good receiver but not great. Yet! He has earned the right to be number one but Phililips needs to how more to totally keep guys off the field. Unfortunately I believe the immediate demotion of guys like knowles. Asante had a negative effect on their confidence, guys don't usually go from being productive to totally incompetent. It's more of a reflection on coaching in my opinion of not being able to motivate those guys to step up.
Stroman has promise at corner, but he also has promise at wide receiver. He definitely showed flashes at being a playmaker in space at the bowl game last year.
This year, I assume he'll be operating out of the slot and run the willie byrn route package. Drag routes, stick routes, out routes, with the added bonus of being a dangerous sweep man. Having him run drag routes will be a lot more effective than Malleck or Hodges, an instant upgrade there. It also allows Loeffler to threaten a defense's edge with a sweep without having to announce pre-snap with personnel by having McMillian align out wide.
I don't think it's ideal but only because they waited so long to make the change. This should have happened right after the bowl game when Loeffler "jokingly" said he wanted Stroman.
I have to wonder if this was Frank saying "Give Loeffler Stroman."
It's clear the offense needs something.
I think it's the guys having identified a problem with the QB getting sacked.
They've identified a couple steps they need to do to correct this problem and they've considered their resources.
There are several ways to improve on that problem.
Improve pass blocking. increase the number of pass blockers. To do so you may need a TE or 2 to stay in.
That reduces targets.
The other way is to get the ball out of the QBs hands faster, or, do both.
With the TEs staying in for pass blocking along with the RB or FB means you need a new dumpoff guy for short routes that isn't intimidated by a crowd while he's trying to catch the ball and has great hands.
As well, the 2 WRs have to have lost considerable speed due to overuse by the end of the games.
In my opinion, they are trying to solve 2 problems with 1 change.
Keep the sack count down by increasing the number of pass blockers while keeping a dumpoff guy there and keep from wearing out your 2 best WRs.
This was my thinking, the pan is to "fix" the passing game by keeping the TE/FB in to block and swapping the other TE for Slot:WR-Stroman, who can use his superior speed (compared to Malleck) to get past LBs coverage abilities. He'll do OK, but having not practiced it all summer or at least fall, don't expect consistency. It's a desperate move IMO, I really think he would've transitioned this off-season to WR just because he's smaller and more dynamic than some with the ball, but he can still make some plays. The real issue to me though, is that the passing game didn't appear to be the problem, again, French can probably say more on the issue, whether I'm right or wrong, but it seemed like our RBs did their usual, and Lefty abandoned them for being useless. Pass after pass after pass is a bad formula, but if you're literally worse off trying to run...
I'm not convinced that using a TE as an extra blocker can fix the pass game or the run game, and without getting the run game on track, we'll still be one-dimensional, predictable, and in trouble. I really do think the issue is the RBs...fix that, get one or two of them to servicable yardage, maybe we can do something.
I would normally agree with you because I think most changes just for the sake of change are a net minus. But my gut tells me this won't be a terrible idea. I'm just not sure how missed he will be defensively -- now or down the road.
But I agree that adding another jet sweep option accomplishes nothing; he either needs to show he can be a real receiver or it's a waste.
Totally agree. I don't think he brings a lot to the wr deficit , this late in the year . I'm tired of seeing Sophmore & junior players moved to cover recruiting failures.
It's a good point, but they really do need to do something, ANYTHING, to take a little heat off Motley (and soon Brewer).
If you don't do that, the season is lost.
Of course the preference would be a functioning Offensive Line that doesn't whiff on blocks.
Agreed, and to add to it, we have a couple talented WRs coming in that will compete for that 3rd spot immediately. Would love to be proven wrong. I like Stroman and know he has it in him to burn folks and break ankles, but this just seems like desperation and is also just more infuriating about our existing WR corps beyond the stellar play of Ford and Cam.
This is exactly what I hope doesn't happen.
No way...puts potential big play guy in slot AND let's T McMillian play in backfield
He is a dynamic athlete and we desperately need a 3rd wide receiver that is a playmaker. It is the best solution right now.
Again, total Monday morning QBing.... but if I am Loeffler, I am playing more pro-sets, rotating Cline in with Malleck and Hodges to get them a wind so they are fresher when Hokies need to go four wide, and perhaps use Asante on running reps and screens. It isn't a great plan, but Loeffler can't be shocked that Ford, Phillips, Malleck, and Hodges are gassed after running 4 wide with those 4 guys in space every snap.
Meanwhile, none of the backs can even get a lather up.
Baby steps: Saw Asante in not during garbage time for the first time this past weekend.
Unfortunately at this point baby steps will result in firings. Or something.
I haven't seen the heavy set of all heavy sets yet...and it's starting to piss me off...Pro set with all 3 TEs and Rogers with a RB...pass/run options for the QB...
What's going on with Cline? He seems to have disappeared.
After seeing Mook play this spring and with Donovan Riley still around, this is a move that I thought should have happened a long time ago.
Tech needs a playmaker in the slot and doesn't have the program depth to stack talented athletes at the cornerback position while running the same 4 receivers out all game.
I will agree that Riley and Mook both looked competent on Saturday when given reps.
It does worry me that after the worst rushing display I remember at Virginia Tech, the answer seems to be "ADD A SLOT RECEIVER".
This isn't all that odd of an attempted solution. Only having to cover two true WR's means our opponents get to stack the box on every single play.
I agree that it'll help keep defenses honest with their safeties a little bit more.
But that's not why Tech couldn't run against Pitt. The defensive line and linebackers just kicked the offensive line's ass.
So....move Malleck and Bucky to OL?
What would you propose as a solution other than changing personnel because they are already looking at that?
Three years ago when Beamer fired or demoted his entire offensive staff (except for his son), he should have demanded that the new staff come in and create a rushing scheme that could become the foundation for the program. No matter what happens now it's going to be too little too late I fear. Unless this team starts winning a lot of games, I seriously doubt there is a "next year" for this coaching staff to build a foundation for. They have to hope that the offensive line starts blocking and that their receivers and QB start making plays.
And that the defense becomes dominant.
No doubt. Would think one answer might be "add a running backs coach".
YES! ^^^^^^^^^^^^^^^^^^^^^^^^^^^^^^^^^^^^^^^^^^^^^^^^^^^^^^^^^^^^^^^^^^^^^^^^^^^^^^^^^^^^^^^^^^^^^^^^^^^^^^^^^^^^^^^^^^^^^^^^^^^^^^^^^^^^^^^^^^^^^^^^^^^^^^^^^^^^^^****************************
I'm guessing they are looking for YAC. It also opens up larger role for mcmillian at running back and maybe we can get back to using our nfl tight ends as tight ends instead of wide receivers.
Dynamic return of the wide receiver screens this week.
Maybe it's "adding a RB" to backfield and giving McMillian more handoffs that aren't just jet sweeps that everyone in the stadium sees coming
Not sure I see why this is a big issue from my chair. Deon's done a decent job at the position though I've heard the grumble that Foster thinks he free-lances too much (or what not). Is Tremaine really going to upgrade the position more than Deon though?
Move Riley to starting CB.
That's the one thing I've wondered too. Deon's played solidly - not perfectly - through the first few games. I'm wondering if Foster is seeing enough from Edmunds to make him comfortable displacing one of his senior leaders who is almost always in the right place at the right time.
Clarke was putrid vs Furman and ECU. Decent against Ohio State. I thought he played really hard on Saturday while Pitt ran right at him, Ekanem, Baron, Edmunds, and Clark over and over again in the second half. But, Clarke and Ekanem both got destroyed on the last TD.
Edmunds has a HUGE upside, more so than Clarke due to size, range and pure strength. Clarke got STEAMROLLED a couple times by Pitt...that WON'T happen to Tremaine who is a beast of an athlete
For the most part this is an exercise in turning on the lights in areas where the boss ain't gonna like what he sees.
Throwing your guys under the bus. We now know who was likely to be looking next year.
But Edmunds ... this kid seems to have legit potential and I really want to see him exert some leadership in the years to come. Crossing fingers potential develops ....
Quick clarification, I must have clicked publish instead of save on my initial draft of the story. Beamer talked about Tremaine playing more in the context of linebacker, but the way I worded it in the version I meant to publish is.
Edit: I added quotes from Frank.
I was hoping he would cut the RB rotation to maybe 3 RBs, Rogers, McMillion , and Peoples. And shake the OC a couple times ! Bad Play calling and No adjustments during the Game to help the QB . IMHO, this is the last chance to turn things around for this year's season. Frank Beamer might be going out on a losing season, sad but true .
Peoples isn't the playmaker they are looking for at running back so that probably won't happen. It looks like they are molding him to fit the same role as Rogers.
I'm not sure how replacing the only two guys that have ever had runs >15 yards and 100 yard games against quality competition is a step forward...
I assume they aren't announcing Durkin as tailback. Just bring that huge surprise out in real time.
I'll reserve judgment on this move until I see what they do with it.
Same, but I believe they felt like they had to do something, so here's something. My new favorite analogy on here is "rearranging the deck chairs on the Titanic." If they don't change the play calling to make the most of this personnel change, then they are literally just rearranging the deck chairs.
Positive move, considering Stroman's lack of production in the secondary. He is an athlete, so he should be suited to add some wrinkles to the inside passing game. Keep it simple and he'll do just fine.
On the other side, when your TE's are running up and down the field as pseudo-WRs, their ability to block effectively suffers.
IMO: give Lawson more reps. I don't blame Motley 100% for his lack of production, but you have a guy in Lawson who is clearly going to take the reins next year. If you want to toss this season up as a wash already, you might as well let Lawson get some game experience. Start the reps at 50-50, and let Lawson go from there as his mechanics improve.
Finally, it's time to pick an RB. This business of rotating 4 guys was great at the start, but it's clearly messing with the players ability to get into the game. McMillian led the RB core with 6 carries... that's garbage.
Lawson is the heir apparent, but I dont think this coaching staff will give him regular reps. Especially after Brewer returns.
Why? They know their jobs are on the line and they will try and max out on wins. 7 or 8 wins and a crummy bowl game will likely mean the coaching staff stays. A freshman and a 5 win season, missing bowl contention means there will be changes. Even if its better for the program to get the kid some reps, it wont happen because of the coaching hotseats. All of which is a horrible position to be in.
I don't think the running back rotation matters so much. There isn't a feature back on this team, you might as well play them to their situational strengths.
It's always better to play for the wins now versus managing for future years.
In the current Coastal Division, an 8 win season for the Hokies at this point could mean a spot in the ACCCG.
This season isn't a wash, it's the season where people's necks and jobs are on the line. You don't play for the future here you play to win and win convincingly. Playing for the future and giving up on this season will result in a complete change of personnel next year.
If Lawson can carry our offense this year then sure make the split 5050, otherwise play your strongest quarterback and stick with him.
I feel like Stroman is taking the fall for the entire team sucking it up. And, to be honest, I think it's kind of shitty for Beamer to call him out like that. But we'll see how it goes I guess.
Beamer didn't call him out. It's impressive that he can play three phases of the game.
Fine you can look at it that way I guess. I was still considering his "changes will be made" comment and took it as this was his big solution to why we're losing.
"We want to get Stroman the ball so that he can make plays for us."
Yeah I agree, it sounds like this is all Greg Stroman's fault.
Agree with you and your sarcastica. You don't punish a player by keeping him on the field.
Plus, nothing says he couldn't go back over and play nickel in a pinch.
Huh? Stroman didn't play D or O vs Pitt. Also, he made a play vs ECU with the INT, broke up another pass that happened to fall in WRs lap.
He was in position vs ECU but got outmuscled...I think getting him in there with some simple underneath routes, getting him in space can help us.CB is NOT a fit for him due to lack of size IMO
Because we have so much depth at db?
We actually do.
this is exactly what this team needed, another person to run the jet sweep!! This move gives me no hope whatsoever.
Motley is a good kid, definitely shows plenty of effort. I don't think he is anything more than a very average quarterback though. He doesn't have the dynamic abilities this offense so desperately needs right now.
I have some hope that Brewer can provide a spark with the short passing game to help our struggling O-line. If we get the Brewer back that played in the first half of the OSU game, then I expect CFB to be standing on the sidelines as head coach at Bristol next year.
He's moving to WR, not RB...he will be involved in pass game
Regarding the chart above, it's not immediately clear what the NO. column represents. I assume it's number of receptions.
..yes.
Welp. This was NOT the change that I had in mind....and to think that there was a glimmer of hope the RB rotation would be narrowed down slightly. what a fool I am
We can now have a package with McMillian, Stroman, and Newsome it will be the ultimate jet sweep option. Think about it, we can do a single, double, or triple jet sweep now. Defenses will be so confused.
In reality, if Stroman can be a slot receiver then it helps.
I envision single and even double-jet sweep reverses. It will be glorious.
Wonder if we could add a WR screen to that too...?
That's why "illegal shift" is a penalty. :) (Or would that be "illegal motion"?)
Nah. Think of a double reverse pass, but instead you just add in one more hand-off. Hell maybe we can go full on and do a triple reverse pass!
Sir, you are ahead of me today.
It's cause I subscribe to Obscure Sports Quarterly.
The OCHO!!
Great! We finally have a solid target for WR screens!
Re Stroman: if you can't beat em, join em.
I do think he could contribute to the slot receiver role primarily due to that fact that he's faster than a kid running out of D2 for the nearest shitter.
Shane to WR coach? Then we would see some more players get reps...
He'd finally realize his dream of using his three best players at the same time.
Yeah, by the way, what the hell is Burden doing? It's almost as egregious as what Shane is doing. Almost.
I'm confused by this statement. Do you just mean lack of depth, or are you seeing something in Ford and Phillips' technique that you think is bad?
No, hes just running them into the ground. I know Knowles, Newsome and Asante aren't good, but at some point, Burden has to be responsible for getting someone...anyone!...ready enough to play 10 snaps a game.
Not signing a wideout in last year's class was a terrible mistake. Problem will be addressed this cycle, but it's a day late and a dollar short.
This seems to be a mistake that gets made all too often by the staff. Wasn't it just a couple of years ago we were saying our Oline was so horrible because they didn't sign anyone the previous cycle? This isn't an indictment of the Beams and Co. but I would certainly think that a staff at this level would find it fairly easy to not repeat that mistake.
Yeah but Burden wasn't here for that, its Lefty/Frank/Shane's fault.
I don't think it was a "mistake". It's not as though they took three strikes and never took the bat off their shoulder. They just struck out swinging.
Yeah, I'm with Joe, issue isn't Burben's doing, it's a recruiting disaster landing on his head, it smells, stinks and feels like a s**t sandwich.
On the topic of us not having a WR and NC State, thought it would a great time to bring up Nyheim Hines. Hines ultimately picked NC State with VT being his other finalist. Hines turned heads in August and is a hybrid between WR and RB, who can play in the slot, but also stretch the field vertically. Hines biggest contribution this year as a true freshman has been a 90 yd kickoff return last week against Louisville. Unfortunate that we missed on this kid, but will definitely be a kid to keep an eye on Friday night.
Since we're gassing our ball catchers, is it too crazy to think about, when it's a running play to perhaps sub in Asante or bring in Cline and flex him out?
And how is it possible that Knowles rides the bench after 4 years in the system? Surely he is at least capable of coming in for a three and out series to get either Ford or Phillips a break.
Finally, I don't think any of that will matter if whomever is throwing the ball is running for his life or if our running game consists of playing 3 backs equally, and having everyone of them run smack into a defender behind the line of scrimmage.
The team lacks focus, attitude and swagger.
I think this move is.....Meh! It's so so to be honest. It won't make or break anything unless we're getting Stroman on the field more as a full-time player immediately. But seems like he'll get a few snaps to justify the move probably doing a Jet Sweep just like everyone is predicting. I'm more disgusted at the fact that our O-Line was manhandled including McLaughlin on crucial situations time and time again. I'm not trying to call the kid out, it was bad for our whole offensive line. But he's been beaten like this before and there's been no kind of change or swap in previous years. The kid hasn't been a true anchor on the Left or Right side. It's a shame, because there's not a enough depth to really put in. So I guess we'll have to wait till next season for more OL depth.
So let's assume that Stroman gets 3-5 catches for 40 yards, does this get us enough offense? I still don't see the O-line problem solved. I actually feel we have decent backs but I disagree with Jet Sweeps and misdirections on every play. I Watch a lot of SEC and its a lot of pounding, Hat-ON-Hat to the point the the D-Line gets worn out by the end and then by the end they bring the speed guy.
We're doing the oppossite and to me i just don't like the design.
Defensively, we still haven't proven that we can stop a running QB. I don't like this Bear Front, some of our best defenses were Zone Ds where the back lined up next to the Mike and we only brought in the nickel on 3rd down.
we lost our way on Defense.
The thought process is that the safety valve that Willie Byrn provided is now lost. Need someone who can run good routes and catch the ball on underneath routes.
This may also clear up McMillian to play more traditional TB. Maybe.
Or maybe - just maybe - McMillian is only running those jet sweeps because he's not really a feature back who can effectively run between the tackles 12-15 times a game?
or maybe McMillian has never been given the chance to run between the tackles??
a 5'6 186lb RB can run between tackles but a 6'0 196lb RB with speed and vision can't?
You say vision but he has been in on a run play that requires a whole lot of vision.
He also has to juke/break 2-3 tackles before even making it to the Line of Scrimmage.
His run vs Furman to start the half showed me he has vision. Instead of keeping it wide he found a crease and cut it up instead of 100% following the block out wide.
In comparison to a traditional role it requires a whole lot less than when you are between the tackles and have to diagnose a point to attack.
The list of VT running backs that got fans excited with a long run against FCS and Directional U. competition is fairly long, but mostly undistinguished. If McMillian was busting runs between the tackles in practice, he would likely be getting a shot in games too.
Remember, so far, McMillian's longest run from scrimmage against teams with a pulse is just 14 yards.
yeah okay. What is Coleman's longest run against competition with a pulse?
Again how do we even know McMillian is even getting a chance to run inside the tackles?? I think it's more JC gets reps Trey gets reps and Travon just watches and gets reps at the sweep.
JC's longest run this year is 10 yards.
Okay, how do we know he hasn't gotten the chance? Do you really believe that he's just tearing it up between the tackles in practice and then the coaches simply table that for the games? It's far more likely -- almost certain in fact -- that he hasn't shown in it practice.
Sorry to burst everyone's RB equivalent of the "backup QB is solution to all of our problems" bubble, but other than a few big runs off tackle through massive holes vs Furman and scrimmages against the 2nd team, McMillian has yet to show that he is a versatile back capable of running inside and outside with success.
Let's not completely throw out the possibility that McMillian doesn't even get reps running b/w the tackles in practice...the way Shane talks about "playing to his players' strengths" I wouldn't be surprised at all if they figure McMillian is the fastest of the backs so they want to get him the ball on the edge. Thus, he only gets jet sweep reps in practice and games. Trey is the bigger "bruiser" (if you can call it that) back so he only gets reps in short yardage packages. Coleman was the undisputed starter the last 4 games last year and Beamer would feel bad about benching him so he has to play.
I can't believe this. How would you know what he player's strengths are if they aren't giving a full variety of reps. We have to stop pretending these coaches are dumber than an average fan.
summer camp and spring ball. All we heard about in the off season is how excited the coaches were about McMillian. I'm sure all the backs got reps in all the situations in the off season. McMillian was the only name I remember hearing a lot of excitement around. Once the coaches determine what the strengths of each player are what's to say they aren't repping those players in their strengths during practices between games? I haven't seen any development from the backs in general so how am I supposed to believe they're working on areas they need to improve in?
I don't understand how we can have 3 RBs who were recruited as such and yet they can only do certain things? I have to believe that Shane has designed his running game around including reps for all of his players. I don't think he wants to decide who is the best option. I don't think he wants to develop a well rounded do-everything back. I think he wants to make all of his players feel important. Shane is a crowd pleaser. He's not going to sleep well at night if he feels like he hurt someone's feelings.
Coleman was only productive last year when he was in for entire games. He was the primary back getting practice and game reps during the whole week. More reps during the week = better results on Saturdays. He was the only RB getting reps simply because everyone else was hurt. Now that there are other healthy options in the backfield the reps are split up and none of the backs are getting enough reps during practice to be comfortable or decisive during the games...it's like an investment. Mo $ = Mo $. If you short change all the backs during the week they're not going to have a very valuable return on gameday.
Coleman was good against bad rushing defenses. I just think we are trying to make rhythm and the number of snaps into a built in excuse for lack of production.
Then it must be some strange coincidence that we're seemingly the only team in the country who consistently plays 3 different backs on the same set of downs and we're also one of the worst rushing teams in the country
Chicken and egg. If a back was capable of separating, he would be getting significant carries and putting up good numbers. A single average back would, in my opinion, put up same or less than the putrid production we are already getting.
there's really no telling. With all of the chatter surrounding McMillian in the off season I would have thought he'd emerge as the back getting significant carries. It feels like the reason he isn't is because Shane feels obligated to play Coleman...
anyway...a bit OT here but another thing that kind of bugs me was that Frank said there would be some personnel changes and lo and behold the change we get is more bodies at receiver?! Because why? Does adding more receiving options do anything for our offense at this stage? Nobody is going to respect the run. They're certainly not going to be forced to commit more bodies to defend the run (thus opening up the passing game) if we just decide to put more receivers on the field.
It's strange to me that the answer to a struggling running game is to try adding personnel to the passing game.
which is why I brought up a day or two ago maybe this is to move McMillian to a more normal rb role and then plug Stroman at the sweep role which he seemed to have at the end of last year.
Might be looking into it with too much confidence that this will happen but I agree it seems weird..
I mean my hope and desire is that they would make a change like this...but I just don't have any confidence in the coaching staff to actually do it. Shane has said repeatedly that he would like to narrow his RB rotation down to two backs. I haven't seen it yet. I'm at the point now where that's just lip service to me.
same here. I just want to see 1 game where the o line is blocking well and we're clicking on offense to really see the splits and #'s.. That will be even more of a sign as to whats going on with the rb rotation/rb package
Amen
The biggest advantage I see of trying to find a true 3rd receiver is that it should allow us to use our star tight ends as tight ends instead of receivers. I really hope the jet sweep thing gets canned at this point, that package should never become such a staple of the offense anyway. It really confuses me when they play action off of jet sweep and all the routes are in the same direction as the fake, so if the defense honors sweep it is also in position to defend pass. If we do that, there should be a drag route going opposite of the sweep.
in season practices are probably not what you think they are. I know for UCF we have breakout sessions and then a quick 10-20 play 2/3 speed scrimmage that's normally a 2 minute drill and or red-zone stuff.
After seeing snapchat and hokievision videos it looks to be the same stuff for VT. RB's go and do pass protection drills, the boxing glove drill and then run some routes out of the backfield vs a LB.
IF Beamer/Lefty have already pre scripted whose the back for what type of play then that back will be in for that play/2 minute drill so its all kosher for the game.
The only time a RB has a chance to show he can do it all is in Spring and a couple weeks in fall. However with the way JC finished last year there was no way in Hell anyone was going to pass him. Shane has a chubb for JC and it will not end until the dude either fumbles multiple times and or gets injured. For VT's sake I hope we can get good o line push and actually compare stats when we are moving the ball and looking crisp.
The players may indeed have packages that suit their strengths, but my point was that they have determined those strengths in the drills you mentioned. For all we know mcmillian is a horrible blockers, causing him to be brought in slowly. If this is true, we will see less of him instead of more since the jet sweep package appears to have run it's course. Or, it is also quite possible that he has made strides this year and we will start to see him as an all around back. To think Shane is not playing the best option is crazy when he knows that he is coaching for his future as well. And, even though he is everybody's favorite whipping boy right now, he knows more about the backs than anybody else right now.
I can agree here.. but there comes a time (maybe after 9 rushing yards 23 if we don't count sack yardage) that we need to switch things up. Hopefully that is what will happen Friday night. The O line not blocking well and the lack of being able to get positive yards with the run early definitely doesn't help.
I have also noticed that in true passing sets Sam will be the main rb as he seems to be the best blocker, Trey gets a couple snaps as well. The interesting this is listening to Lefty's comments after the game he said we had guys running wide open all over the place and just couldn't make plays because of pressure. Who knows if that's true but we definitely saw a QB get bulllied all day and his confidence just crash..
Really?
What sounds more likely...that he hasn't shown in practice that he is true feature back yet or that it hasn't even dawned on the coaches to give it a try?
uh..neither?
My hypothetical is that he's not getting those reps in practice because they're making him practice the set of plays that have been laid out for him. Those plays were selected to "play to the strength" of each player. So it's not that it hasn't dawned on the coaches either. They've determined that he's best utilized in Jet Sweep plays so that's where he gets work.
I don't know about you, but I haven't seen any real development with any of the RBs since Shane took the reins. Would you agree or disagree with that statement?
The reason I bring this up is because if they're not showing any signs of improvement or development what evidence is there that they're practicing areas of their game that need work? It suggests to me that Shane has pre-determined roles for each back and they get work within the framework of those specific roles.
My theory is that McMillian has been limited to the plays that are specific to his role and he hasn't had the chance in practice nor in games to show whether he can be a feature back or not.
He did so in the game against Pittsburgh, so I would assume that he's getting some between the tackles reps in practice as well.
ok so there's 1 in 5 games.. when he gets 2-3 a drive then I will believe that he's getting some looks. for now we can watch JC and company run into the blockers and d line for a gain of 1 yard at a time!
Did you even watch the last 3 games last year?
He's had no less than 7 runs of more than 25 yards and just as many over 14 yards in his career in ~300 carries. Longest is 86 yards.
well, when you're the only RB who plays for the entire game you're going to have much better stats. Coleman and Edmunds have both alluded to how important it is to get into the rhythm of a game. They have both said it's difficult to run when they're being rotated in and out because they can't get a feel for the game. Despite the fact his players have expressed (albeit mild) discontent with the RB rotation, he continues to cycle through them constantly during games.
As long as Shane Beamer is our RB coach we're not going to have a proficient running game. I don't know about you but I have seen basically 0 development or improvement from any of our backs under his tutelage. Heck, it sounds like Coleman has regressed from his "dominance" last year. What has he done for us this year?!?! If Shane doesn't give them a chance to get into the flow of a game how can he expect them to be productive? Especially after two of his three starters have gone as far as to say they have a hard time getting into a groove when they keep going in and out of the game...
I don't think the problem is the talent (or lack thereof)...I think it's the coaching and management of the RBs that is killing our running game. And, without a running game, we're not going to have an offense that will scare anyone. When coaches openly admit that they know we won't score again (Nards) that's a pretty clear indicator that your offense is not threatening.
Rhythm is an excuse for not playing well. When your number is called, make something of it, period. Until we prove we can take the top off a defense, there won't be holes to run through.
Can't throw the ball unless you can run it. Our passing game is more of a threat than our running game. That's why Pitt spent most of the game only rushing 4. They knew we weren't a threat on the ground and they left 7 in coverage to defend 4-5 receiving threats.
You can blame our running game on whatever you want. It goes back to Shane and Loeffler in some way. Either Shane isn't coaching his players properly or he's not recruiting the right talent for the position. Our failure to run the ball lands on the shoulders of those two guys. I don't think you can blame the players themselves. There is only so much they can do with 6 carries per game each.
Spent the whole game rushing four?
I think you mean the last two games. We don't talk about "how well X played" against Wake Forest.
He had a 31 yard run vs Wake...and 98 yards total. On just 18 carries.
VT may have lost that game that never happened, but it wasn't because JCC didn't post.
Agreed, I think everyone who assumes McMillian is our best feature back is projecting something on him that he currently has never done. It's a reflection of all the other backs failing.
I do think that since other rbs are not providing what's needed he should at least get some looks.
You never know what you have unless you try it.
Oh, I agree. May as well throw McMillian back there. But I'm not expecting Ryan Williams. I'm expecting Keith Burnell or Josh Oglesby.
I've definitely seen McMillian break a few ankles with his limited touches this season...
Really? If he is, he's not getting far after doing it.
Shook a LB after catching a flare pass vs Pitt last week and got 6 yards.
Six whole yards?
well that's 2/3 of the yards we had on the ground vs Pitt. So clearly he's doing the work of 2 RBs by himself while the other two are doing the work of 1 together /s
damn the hate is strong.. and yeah he beat a defender 1v1 and got 6 yards on 1st down something JC can't seem to even do.
Should be Malleck or Phillips... right? This offense is frustrating.
40 yards by a 3rd wr would open up the running game and Ford on deep routes. So yeah, 40 yards would be awesome because it would lead to about 100 more after that.
I would say he won't have that much influence, but I said the same thing about Braxton Miller....
Not a realistic comparison at all, IMHO. Miller is a two-time Heisman candidate.
Not at wide receiver he wasn't. Anyway, you're right that there is a talent gap there but the point is that playmakers with the ball in their hand don't need to be flawless in their techniques. Fingers are crossed.
Next news segment, Joel Caleb is being moved to Corner.
So he can be a WR -> RB -> WR -> CB.
don't you mean WR -> RB -> WR -> CB -> QB -> TE
WR -> RB -> WR -> CB -> QB -> TE -> OT
In the midst of all the talk of not having any receiver depth, what in the world happened to Jaylen Bradshaw? Has he even dressed for a game? He played at pass-heavy Oscar Smith and I thought for sure he would push for the 3rd wr spot...
I was just looking through the roster and thinking the same thing.
Was he the one who got injured last year and had to take a redshirt? Or was that Kendrick Holland?
Holland was discussed in Koma's recent article here:
http://www.thekeyplay.com/virginia-tech-football-recruiting/2015/09/1040...
Whoa! These changes are so innovative! I just can't wrap my mind around them. Watch out ACC championship here we come! /s
Franks feeling the heat otherwise why mention this change at all? Just do it and let everyone find out on Friday. He felt he needed the distraction when he really needs an OL and a RB coach.
This move reeks of desperation. I hope that Stroman does well at WR, but it's sad that he is potentially better than all of our backup WRs even though he has been playing cornerback the entire season. It really speaks to our recruiting or lack thereof. Can we please stop pretending that our recruiting has improved or that we don't need stars to have a good team? We miss on so many recruits in VA that it's not even funny. Even UVA has outrecruiting us for top VA prospects. As a result, we have an obvious lack of depth at some positions.
Maybe, but it might also be an attempt to get a playmaker into a place where he can make some plays.
We're going to find out.
Blows my mind that at one point, Demetri Knowles was supposed to be the guy... Someone with such promise, who is now a redshirt senior, has been buried on the depth chart. If only he had hands...
Why can't he just play both? He now has some knowledge and experience at Cb, but also retains all his offensive playmaking ability...
players get tired...
I'm not saying that we should turn into an SEC program but there's too much dead weight on this team. If we don't have anymore than 2 WRs on our roster that can provide quality snaps .. Some of them should've been forced to move on so that we could take at least 1-2 every year. Our WR situation is absolutely pitiful
Force players to "move on" as in kick them off the team? No thanks, the day VT becomes that program is the day I stop being a fan. If you offer a kid a scholarship it should be there as long as he doesn't break any laws/school rules. Just as I'm not a fan of not commit able scholarships out of high school except for grades this reeks of SEC play for your scholarship/education bullshit.
Why is it OK for academic scholarship retention to be performance based but it's not for athletic scholarships?
Because if I'm on an academic scholarship, my professors aren't actively recruiting a 5* HS senior to try to take away my position in a class. My grades are my responsibility alone. If I'm on the football team, someone can take my place, or I can get injured, neither or which might be my fault.
Stroman (in the 10 minutes I watched) seemed to do well- they were running dig routes. Did not incur the wrath of Loeffler and caught every ball including a couple missiles from Motley and Lawson. Newsome, Phillips and one other had drops in the same time period. Note: Durkin was not with the QB's
Was Brewer with QBs?
Yes, time was split equally between the three. This was pass skeleton, then throwing in the 2nd team D. BTW, Settle and Ricky Walker are an impressive looking DT duo.
I like this move.
this move got me thinking if Stroman is being moved to WR could he become the speed sweep back since he's done it before? If so does that give the hint that McMillian could possibly getting the look/ball for some inside the tackle runs to see what he has?
don't get your hopes up. If they didn't come out and say they were going to narrow down the RB rotation (or alter the rotation so that we don't see 3 different RBs on the same set of downs) why should we even believe that's a possible option?
Furthermore, when they HAVE come out and said they would like to go with 2 main guys, they haven't. So even if they said they were going to narrow it down, there's no historical evidence to suggest that they would actually do what they say. So I have extremely little reason to believe they'll change it at all.
Coleman will start. Edmunds will spell him after a couple plays. Travon will be lined up out wide at some point in the first quarter and motion across for the Jet Sweep. Motley will probably keep it and gain 3 yards up the middle. Rinse and repeat.
It's all been said butI am really hoping to see improvement...I feel like if the offense and defense ever show up at the same time this team could still compete this year. The lack of recruiting and depth are clear signs of failure in the staff. Playing Motley last week when he was hurt was inexcusable. All of this ends at CFB's desk. The buck begins and ends with him. Maybe this ship will correct maybe. Go Hokies!