Virginia Tech associate athletics director for sports medicine Mike Goforth released medical updates for quarterback Michael Brewer and running back Marshawn Williams. Brewer, who fractured his collarbone against Ohio State, has been cleared to fully participate in practice, but will wear a yellow non-contact jersey. On September 29, Williams re-injured his left knee (torn ACL) that had previously been repaired on December 16, 2014. Marshawn will require another surgery and will be out for the remainder of the season. Hokies' head coach Frank Beamer will apply for a medical hardship waiver through the ACC.
Medical updates on @MBrewer16 & @RunJuice42
#Hokies pic.twitter.com/2tDutIMlpf— VT Football (@VT_Football) October 5, 2015
Correction on medical update
Williams re-injured knee on Tuesday, Sept. 29 not Sept. 28 as previously indicated— VT Football (@VT_Football) October 5, 2015
Brewer has been throwing the football for a few weeks now, but that's not the only hurdle to get him back on the field.
Guess who's spinning the rock?
@MBrewer16 back throwing, but not cleared for contact yet.
#StrongTogether pic.twitter.com/DvAhJLUkUv— VT Football (@VT_Football) September 30, 2015
Loeffler on Michael Brewer: "He's been throwing, but he hasn't had any contact yet. We'll see where he goes." Motley 9 of 20 today. #Hokies— Alex Koma (@AlexKomaVT) October 3, 2015
Last Monday, Virginia Tech running backs coach Shane Beamer discussed the possibility of Williams returning to the field this season.
"Marshawn's the one that would like to play this year," said Beamer. "Obviously he's the one, he tore his ACL later than Shai did last year. So the fact that we're having a conversation about his availability is a testament to Marshawn and our training staff."
But Beamer did admit that with an already full running back room, Williams' chances of returning to the field in 2015 remain largely dependent on the health of the other tailbacks.
"That's what I've told Marshawn. We've got some quality guys at the running back position," said Beamer. "We don't need to muddy the water and just play if you're gonna play a few plays a game. If you're gonna play this year it's either because of injury, which knock on wood we've been fortunate, or you come out and you show that you're clearly better than those other 3 guys that we have right now. And if that's the case, we'll get you out there."
Comments
Does "reinjured" mean he blew out his ACL again???
Why would Williams need a medical hardship when he hasn't dressed for a game, much less played?
Might have been confusing him with Shai? Obviously it'll just be a redshirt.Would a medical hardship pave the way to a sixth year of eligibility if Marshawn can't return next season due to the injury? Would a typical redshirt year prevent a sixth year? Maybe this is establishing a paper trail to prove this season was lost to injury? Is that how it works?
Wouldn't this open him up to use a regular redshirt next year if needed? I'm not familiar with if you have to use your regular one before you can get a medical.
Have to use regular redshirt first.
Ah, ok. I thought there was some rule about only getting a sixth year if both redshirts were due to medical issues.
A sixth year is granted if a player loses two years to injury, one of which can be a medical hardship waiver
At this rate he will be on social security before we get him back....
Actually, you can't get a medical hardship waiver if you've taken a redshirt year, I don't think.
My only guess would be so he doesn't waste a redshirt year. He take another year to redshirt after this year.
Edit: He must have confused it with typical redshirt year.
The fact that the kid was practicing on an ACL repaired knee less than a year later tells you pretty much all you need to know about the orthopedic staff. The fact that they act surprised after player after player gets re-injured following a recovery period that always seems to be shorter than what we hear is the appropriate time is laughable.
So, you are excited to see Brewer this week Huh?
It is like one of those dreams where you are standing on the railroad tracks. You can see the train coming from an eternity away, and you still can't move. The inevitability of it absolutely kills me.
I am critical of the kids when they can't execute, and I am critical of the coaches when their scheme seems to put the kids in a position to fail. That being said, more than winning, I want these kids to be rewarded for all the work they put into football with a great career and experience. To be hurt all the time ruins what should have been the best time of their life, causes them a lifetime of chronic pain, and in some cases, prevents them from living their dream of going pro in the NFL. That makes me sick. We all lose our shit over wins and losses, but football is still a game, and it should be fun.
You da man French. +10000
A 1000 times yes. This is exactly why I was so upset at the end of the Pitt debacle. It was painfully obvious how banged up Motley was. I don't care if the kid says he can still throw the ball. His face said otherwise wincing with pain every time he moved his throwing arm. Yet, the coaching staff kept putting him out there to get pummeled. At that point, I was way more livid that his health was being risked than losing the game.
There is pain and injuries in football. Players sometimes play through it. The problem I have, is when they do it and people cheer them on and go, "man that kid showed some toughness, he played through it and won us the game."
Yet when things don't go well it's suddenly, "The medical staff and coaches are not looking out for our players."
I. Do. Not. Understand.
People get passionate about everything. For the good stuff, they praise the hard workers. For the bad stuff, they blame whoever it makes sense to blame.
You see it throughout society. Just look at politics: when things are going well, it's because America is such an awesome country. When things are going badly, it's the fault of the president/congress/rich/poor/capitalism/socialism/etc.
"Whichever political party I associate with, everything bad is the fault of the other party's representatives"
I like democracy but this country suffers from the divisiveness of bipartisan politics. It's toxic IMO. But, this isn't a forum for political discussions so that's all I'm going to say about that. Carry on.
I couldn't decide which one was better.
I can see where you're coming from. However, there's a big difference between playing through it and actually performing and playing through it and not performing. Motley had lost it all by then, IMO, and wasn't performing because of the injury and the pain. Granted, it wasn't all his fault considering how awful the OL was. This is the point in the game when the coaches should have made the decision by taking him out of the game. In this instance the risk was much higher, again... IMO.
Please do not question our self-absorption.
Only a sicko would put a kid's health and future above our Saturday fun.
This is more than laughable ,to take a chance on permanent injury or ruining a kids life is borderline criminal.
I don't understand this comment at all. What exactly am I being told about the orthopedic staff? The timeline for an ACL injury is 8-12 months to a full recovery. I would hope he is running in less than a year. Straight ahead running is usually not a major issue with ACL tears, it is the cutting and planting is the issue.
Wes Welker tore his ACL in January 2010, and then started week one of the upcoming season, but that is because all of these injuries are different. Marshawn and Shai's injuries were both over 10 months ago which is within the range that they should be almost be able to be full go, so no I'm not told anything about the orthopedic staff.
No offense but you have no idea what you're talking about.
Each ACL injury is different in terms of the structural integrity of the knee itself and how the graft heals. Guys like Adrian Peterson are medical marvels and are obviously on the shorter end of the spectrum. Then you have guys like Derrick Rose...every case is unique so you can't always "pinpoint" the perfect time for a player to come back. That being said, Shai and Marshawn are perfectly within the timeline of a typical ACL injury, there is nothing unusual about the timeframe they came back to practice.
This is a flippant statement made by someone who is obviously looking to place blame on anyone except the players. This is like blaming Dr. Brian Cole for Derrick Rose's knees.
Hmm, it only tells me that our ortho staff was overseeing a couple of typical ACL recoveries. 8-12 months is pretty typical for recovering to near 100% following an ACL surgery.
Shai is obviously healthy enough to play, he is just not back to 100% and as a result isn't any better than the 3 other RB's we have available. He will probably be 100% before the end of the season, but NCAA eligibility rules its probably best to keep the redshirt on him at this point. Certainly a borderline case for a medical redshirt, should he be injured again in the future, but one that the NCAA typically doesn't challenge.
Marshawn was pushing hard to recover ASAP and as it turns out pushed himself too hard (or simply had a random re-injury). Again, setbacks happen with rehab from injuries, nothing out of the ordinary.
Wow, we can't catch a break with injuries. Our new favorite phrase around here -- "next year". Reminds me of that bar sign -- "free beer tomorrow".
Get well, Marshawn!
Personally, I'd hate to see us rush Brewer back this week, putting him further at risk.
Go Hokies!
Both Shai and Marshawn have hurt themselves again trying to get back this season on promises of playing time when you're already splitting carries among too many RBs. Thats a(nother) bad look for Shane.
Oh please...this statement makes about 5 assumptions - none of which you know are true or false.
Do tell, its been documented that they wanted to get back on the field. If Shane would have played it safe and shut them down for the year (like most would have) then they probably (the only point you may have is here) wouldn't have gotten re-injured. They may have very well gotten re-injured later or just living life, but not being shut down is a bad look regardless of opinion.
So you expect players to not do anything during their rehab time? Players have to start working out at some point. It's been how long since he was injured so your solution is to lock them in a room for however long the coaches think is ok? Let me know how that works with guys who want to get back out there.
Theres a huge difference between rehabbing and training to get football ready. Anyone who has ever gotten hurt knows that. Notice how they didn't get hurt until either back (Shai) or close to getting back (Marshawn). Huh, interesting.... Let me know when you connect the dots.
Correct they rehabbed and THEN starting getting ready to play. Their rehab time was over, so your suggestion is to just keep rehabbing for extra months? At some point they have to I don't know get ready for football and that time they might get hurt. What the point in having them not ready for football longer thus making it harder to get football ready?
"They may have very well gotten re-injured later or just living life" me, earlier. But I think every sane person would feel a lot better about the injuries if they happened after a longer rehab period instead of the absolute minimum. If they were shut down they wouldn't have pushed themselves as hard as they probably did. They would have been forced to have a longer time to heal, completely. This, along with a pattern of early returns and subsequent re-injuries is a bad look. You can turn a blind eye if you want, but it looks bad.
Unfortunately, that's not how ACL repairs work. If you're cleared, you're cleared. What you're basically insinuating (without realizing, I assume) is negligence on the part of the medical staff in clearing Marshawn for physical activity before it was warranted.
So you're saying that allowing the process to take a longer time and a delayed return would have been of no benefit? Do you honestly believe there is no difference between being cleared and being 100%.
I'll say this. Michael Brewer was just cleared to practice/play. This is basically the turnover from the medical staff to the coaches, because you know, coaches aren't doctors and shouldn't be making medical decisions. Brewer will practice this week, and do what he can. He will be evaluated after every practice, and meet with the medical staff for treatment. If he has practiced well, and the medical staff agrees that he can play, he will play.
That is how this works. That's it.
If I somehow get ill and this illness means I can't drink beer, the doctor will tell me not to drink beer. When the doctor says, ok you are clear now, you can drink beer, I'm going to drink a beer cautiously at first, and then get back to full speed ahead.
OK, don't be going around scaring the hell out of people:
"If I somehow get ill and this illness means I can't drink beer"
Just because you can't do something... that doesn't mean you shouldn't. :D
Medically speaking, no. Once the okay is given to return, that's saying the knee is ready for full athletic activity. By implying Marshawn would have benefited from a longer limited-activity rehab period, you're also implying the medical staff cleared him too early, which would be an instance of medical negligence.
Being medically cleared to return means you can but not necessarily that you should. Theres a subtly you are clearing missing or I am not communicating.
Okay, perhaps I am misinterpreting you. When you said this:
I interpreted it to mean they were "pushing too hard," meaning they should not have been allowed to be doing the level of work they were doing. You reinforced that opinion when you said:
The key phrase here is "shut them down for the year." I interpreted that to mean a reduction in workload/activity. But both had been medically cleared to return to athletic activity. So my natural conclusion was to assume you meant they shouldn't have been allowed back to full activity as soon as they were. This seemed supported by your assertion that:
But that's not how medical clearance works. There's no "minimum." There's no arbitrary time frame. The rehab period ends when medical staff examine the reconstructed knee and declare it fit for athletic activity. The staff did that, and if they did their jobs, they made the call based solely on the physical condition of Marshawn's knee, without consideration of the number of days that had passed since the injury occurred.
The only way to enforce a reduction in activity level is for medical staff not to clear the player for a certain level of activity. Once the medical staff gives the okay, that player is then basically on his own to work his way back, working with the strength and conditioning coaches to get back in game shape. The S&C coaches can encourage moderation, but it's up to the player himself to set his own pace. Marshawn has hustle. He's a baller. He was gonna be on the upper end of the workout spectrum by nature of his personality.
When you say:
I don't know what it means to say that a player "should" return. But I can say with certainty that being medically cleared, in Marshawn's case, means the medical staff declared the knee ready for unrestricted athletic activity. From a medical standpoint, the knee was good to go, and Marshawn went. Timidity after an injury is obviously not an issue with him. He trusts his body, perhaps a little too much.
Well, medically speaking, they are both hurt again. So draw whatever conclusions you want. I am not going to just walk away believing coincidence.
I found this ironic.
As I read it, everyone understands you. They just appear to disagree with you.
If the doctors say the knee is good, you go based on that. The coaches always do. Torn ACLs, broken collar bones, sprained ankles, and ripped off finger tips. That's the way it goes. Doc says OK, so the team starts working him in. It's not like everyone forgets about the player. The player still follows up with the coaches and medical staff. Look at Buds comments about Moto: his knee felt good during the game and was fine when they met after the game. Continual evaluation while getting work once they are medically cleared, that is the name of the game. Not get cleared then wait an extra 6 months to be super duper sure that the knee is 100%. If MRIs, XRays, 8 years of schooling, 4 years of internships, and umpteen years of experience say the knee can be practiced on, then it can be practiced on. Sometimes shit happens. Sometimes stuff is weaker after injury, even 10 years later. At some point, you have to start working them back in. If that point isn't when the doctors say it is okay, when do you think the coaches should start allowing them to practice?
I am super duper sure they are both hurt again. Draw what you want from it and I'll do the same.
I will. My conclusion is I'm not a doctor and don't get paid to be one. I'll trust a medical team to do their job over a gut feeling.
With all of that said, I wanted both Shai and Marshawn to sit this year. It seems that everyone who tears an ACL says that they didn't feel like themselves for over a year. Feeling like yourself and being able to do something are two different things. I think it's too soon for Brewer to be back. However, I'm not a doctor and just a fan. I realize that I have no basis for my feelings and leave the doctoring up to the doctors.
I wish my wife had more patients like you. Dr. Google is the go to doctor these days.
As the end of Brooklyn 99 reminds me every week:
Where did we see that Shai was hurt again, rather than still hurt? From what I understand he was shut down because he wasn't back to 100% and wasn't effective in games, not because he suffered another injury.
I thought the same thing and was wondering why people were saying he had reinjured his knee, unless they're talking about the acl tear last year being a re-injury of the tear from high school.
I think it springs from the fact that Shai required another surgery on his knee. But we don't know what kind of surgery, we don't know what the surgery addressed, and as I pointed out to Mason, patients 20 and younger are 83% more likely to require a second surgery after an ACL tear.Never mind. I'm an idiot.
are you confusing Shai for Marshawn?...I haven't heard any news of another surgery for Shai outside of his Second ACL repair last year. Marshawn, however, apparently just re-injured his left knee this week. That's the news I think everyone is discussing...
Wait a minute. There was a mixup on here a few days ago where Joe mentioned Shai's surgery in October 2014 and a couple people (me included) got our years mixed up and thought it was talking about needing a new surgery. I was getting that mixed up with how TG kind of let it slip that Kendall was having knee surgery before it was officially announced by that AD.
So many injuries to keep straight.
Brain fart. My bad.
Shai and Marshawn both tore their ACLs over 9 months ago. I'm blown away that people are blaming Shane for their injuries because he "promised" them playing time and "pushed" them to get back.
Every week we have been hearing something along the lines of, "Marshawn is improving every week. We'll evaluate him and see where he is. We'll then make a determination on his redshirt."
To me this says that Marshawn is rehabbing and doing better, and at the medical staff's discretion he is beginning to do more. In absolutely no way is this what you are accusing Shane of doing.
The coaching staff wants their players to be healthy, if they are ready, they will play. If they need more time, they will continue to workout and rehab to get to where they need to be.
You say that Shane should shut these kids down for the year. Why would you shut down your 2 best backs from the previous year who if healthy could help this team? Especially when they are well within their timeframe of being healthy.
And to your other point, "they probably wouldn't have gotten hurt." According to your logic, they also would never be healthy because it takes rehab to repair a torn ACL. If they were shut down and not working to get back, they would not be helping themselves.
This. A lot.
I understand the frustration over both Shai and Marshawn needing additional surgeries. But the vibe I'm getting about all the innuendo about someone (Shane, the trainers, the medical staff) doing something wrong to cause it just seems like sour grapes to me. At some point you have to start pressing yourself to return from an ACL tear. That risks reinjury. Like you said, the timeframes are absolutely within the norm.
People want someone to blame because it's human nature. We feel better in a bad situation if there's someone we can flip off about it.
I agree with the sentiment that Shane not being emphatic that Marshawn probably encouraged him to put a lot of effort into rehabbing in hope of seeing the field. However, and I've said this so many times now, once a medical staff clears you to return to physical activity, you're cleared. You don't get "more healed" by sitting on a reconstructed knee a few extra months. At some point, you're gonna put strain on it, and if you tweak it, you tweak it.
What we need is an AMA with an orthopedic surgeon.
Plus this gem:
Does he think 4 backs getting 5 carries a game makes them all feel like a contributor but,
having 5 backs getting 4 carries a game will make them all feel underutilized?
from my understanding shai has hinted that if he didnt get to play this year he was going to transfer.
Then we should have held the door open for him.
The second a player starts threatening a transfer if he doesn't get his way, his scholarship should be pulled. No player is greater than the team.
If this is true after the shit he pulled in the off season, I'm officially done with Shai McKenzie.
Then let him walk. They are players for an amateur team, not professionals. If he is using ultimatums to get his way, good riddance.
I would not put Brewer behind our Swiss cheese line this week since he is recovering from a major injury if I was a head coach but then I actually care about my fellow Hokies...
So many things to type here... but I'm just going to walk away.
I just can't believe our OL can't all of a sudden protect. Curious that these issues started when Searls hurt his back prio to ECU. Correlation? Anyone?
A lot of it had to do with Pitt's aggressive scheme on defense, but there were definitely cracks showing in our OLine before this. Basically if the defense did any kind of stunt or delay, we had issues consistently knowing who to block.
You know our o-line is bad when UVA players start asking how they can avoid being like them.
11-0, brah.
Ask Greyson Lambert what he thought about UVA's tackles after last year's game.
Your cheap shot at Beamer, apart from being blatantly false, is one of the shittiest things I've ever seen written.
Last Monday at Tech's press conference Shane discussed Williams' desire to get back on the field this season. According to the release from Tech, Juice got injured the next day. The million dollar questions are, did Williams get hurt in practice that day after Shane's comments, and if so, did Williams push his recovery too quickly?
It is my opinion he pushed too hard. He was too eager to get back out there, IMO. If you follow him on social media he was always talking about wanting to get back out there.
I just think he pushed too hard.
IMO.
Yeah, he's the only player I've ever seen coming off an injury be itching to get back out there.
I'm sorry, but this whole notion that Shane or anyone else pushed Marshawn too hard is absurd.
this whole story just reminds me of 'Smash' from "Friday Night Lights" -- trying to get on the field too soon...
I believe your thinking of Boobie Miles from the movie
.
LET ME SPIN! IF YALL WANNA WIN PUT BOOBIE IN!
yep- i got the TV show confused with the Movie....both were excellent, but yes, it was Boobie who didn't want to listen to what the doc told him and tore up his knee....BTW- excellent book too.
Shane has been around football long enough to know what an appropriate time table for a torn ACL is. It's his responsibility, as well as the medical staff's, to prevent an athlete from pushing themselves to the point of reinjury.
In isolation, I would say it's an unfortunate situation. In the context of the past few years of injuries in Blacksburg, I can't help but get worried about the way this program is treating injuries.
Is there any hard data that establishes VT has a higher injury rate than other P5 programs?
If the answer is no, then every comment discussing the "injury problem" in Blacksburg is simple conjecture.
You can literally say that about anything posted without a chart. Conjecture is a large part of what we do here. But ok, let's not discuss about Marshawn's reinjury in the context of the program's recent history of questionable injury timelines (Shai, Kendall, Facyson, now Brewer). Let's talk about it as an individual case.
Marshawn should have been told "this year you are getting redshirted, get healthy first". There was zero reason to have him push to get back on the field this year. It is clearly in the program's best interest to have Travon start at running back with JC and Trey as back ups, while giving Marshawn and Shai a redshirt this year. This has been the opinion of many people on this site dating back to the spring. The reason why? The risk of reinjury. Let's ride this season out with the talented freshman running back and the steady upperclassmen, then let's roll deep in 2016.
Instead, Shane kept the door open for Marshawn to return (despite already having a running back room that was too crowded for him to figure out who is the starter) while the team struggled to rush the ball. SHOCKINGLY Marshawn hurt himself while rehabbing. Now, even if I don't think about all the player's who have played hurt or are about to (Brewer playing this soon behind this offensive line is madness and even hinting at it is insane), I don't think hard data is necessary to draw the conclusion that maaaaaaaybe the coaching staff could have played this hand a little bit differently.
Like I said either right above or below this (it runs together) there simply comes a point where a player returning from ACL surgery gets into the type of work that risks reinjuring a reconstructed knee. We don't even know the extent of the reinjury, or the nature of the surgery Marshawn will have. Five minutes on Google uncovered this article from Time that says younger patients are more likely to need multiple surgeries to repair an ACL tear. So Shai and Marshawn both needing a second surgery is not, on its face, out of the ordinary.
We can bemoan the state of injury (and reinjury) in our program all we want to. God knows weve been smacked in the face with enough bad luck on that front to be a little bitter. But unless we know the baseline injury rate for P5 programs, we have no way of knowing if we're above average or below. What feels like an overabundance of injuries might actually just be a normal amount of injuries shining a spotlight on our lack of depth.
Again, I'll just look at Marshawn's injury in a vacuum.
He shouldn't have been trying to return this year. There was no pressing need for him because of the emergence of Travon as a talented back and because of the depth at the position with JC and Trey. Shane has specifically said he was getting Marshawn extra conditioning work instead of getting mental reps during practice because that was what was needed to get him on the field quicker. Then he gets hurt.
We both have the same amount of information. You can choose to believe that his injury was inevitable regardless of his timeline and I can choose to believe that his injury was at least in part due to the carrot Shane was dangling in front of him to get back on the field sooner. Neither of us can definitively say who is right or who is wrong unless we go back and watch every decision every party involved made at every step along the way.
Schrodinger's ACL.
That's tricky, just isolating Marshawn's injury. This is a kid who last year tried to return to camp like a week after hernia surgery. I don't know if anyone or anything could have prevented him from risking reinjury through massive effort in rehabbing. But did Shane perhaps fail to temper the risk of reinjury by not being emphatic that Marshawn was going to sit out this year? Absolutely, I can see that. It's not at all implausible.
My comment was more in regards to you talking about how this program treats injuries in general. I don't see this program jeopardizing players by rushing them back too soon. I do see us giving players a go when they aren't 100%. That's football. But the staff makes the call to shut it down when it's clear an injury is more than just an issue of playing through pain. Not that I think you're implying it, but I don't get a sense that the staff is negligent in protecting injured players or anything like that.
I'm not going to go so far as to say I think the program is actively hurting players or that they are negligent in providing medical services to the players. Those are both serious charges that require serious evidence before they should be leveled.
I will say that I don't think "cautious" is a word that you could accurately use to describe this program's overall attitude towards getting hurt players back on the field.
Now that would really be something worth looking into. Regardless of whether our rate of injury is higher or lower than average, looking at how long it takes our players to return to the field after an injury and comparing it to other programs would be research worth doing. If VT has players returning to the field 10% sooner than other programs, then there's obviously a problem. Some players heal quickly. You don't get a whole squad of them.
Still, that won't apply to Marshawn, because now it'll be nearly two years post-injury before he takes a snap for us. That's definitely not rushing back. Maybe looking at if VT has a greater than average rate of reinjury would be the way to guide the research. Either way, there might be some real statistical support for what you're saying. Then again, there might not.
I just know from my own personal experience following this team, when the injuries hit, they hit so hard it always feels like someone MUST be at fault. I remember a few years ago when we lost two or three different players over the course of the season to lisfranc sprains. There was a general outcry of, what is the coaching staff doing wrong to cause so many of this weird-ass injury? The answer, of course, was nothing. I don't think I've heard the term "lisfranc sprain" since that season. At the time, though, it felt like someone on the staff must have been going all "Kathy Bates in Misery" on the roster's feet while they slept.
Around that time it did seem that lisfranc injuries were common? I wondered at the time if it was a shoe problem, same as I wondered 40 years ago if the shoes we were wearing (soccer style) were responsible for the rash of foot and ankle injuries that seemed prevalent on my high school team.
Note: don't know where that question mark came from.
It all started with the "high ankle" sprain. I believe we actually invented that one. Never heard of it before.
Hmmm...we really DO invent the future.
Been hearing of high ankle sprains for well over a decade. It was definitely one of the possible injuries in Madden '99.
Had one once or twice too. They take longer to heal than one might think.
Yeah...Michael Vick had a high ankle sprain. Over a decade ago...that was when it became all the rage...
Used to be a plain ol' sprained ankle before that...
My bad. I often forget the age gap here when attempting humor. Carry on.
Nah, I caught the humor. I just decided to be this guy for a moment.
Now that would be some interesting research! Equipment rotation is often an overlooked aspect in football, but in this era of a new uniform every game, there might very well be something to the idea that either a new type of shoe, or a new shoe every week, can make a player more susceptible to injury.
This is like looking at a single play in a football game and concluding who won the game.
You keep doubling down on your "theory", but you have nothing more than anecdotal and circumstantial evidence based on flimsy or no facts. I suggest maybe you "watch the whole game" first and then come back with your
accusationsconclusions.That's not what he said.
He said that Juice pushed himself too hard.
With an implication that medical staff, S&C staff or the coaches could/should have prevented it. If a player is cleared to return to football activities, at some point they'll get into the stuff that will risk reinjury. And when Shai and Marshawn got to that point, they both reinjured themselves. This could be a sign they were "pushing too hard." It could also be a sign that their knees simply aren't going to heal correctly. That happens.
It's also entirely possible that non-team activities played a large role in him getting hurt. I've seen college football players mess themselves up one way or another by working out too hard on their own.
Speaking of non-team activities, I LOLed when I saw Marshawn tweeted about selling his self-balancing scooter. The timing seems curious.
Ya know?
Please show me where I mentioned Shane or anyone else besides Marshawn?
Hopefully you can attribute that to someone else but you didn't read that in my comment.
You are correct, I misread. Irregardless, I would hope that Marshawn is only doing as directed by the medical staff. Reinjury is always unfortunate, but also a known risk.
I know, right? I hate it when people use words that aren't in the dictionary...
It's a word, although not one with widespread acceptance. We've been through this already. ;)
it may be a word but it's a meaningless word. Just like antidisestablishmentarianism
the two prefixes ir and re cancel out. Same as anti and dis. You're adding an unnecessary syllable that adds no value to the word. It's illogical.
To be fair, "disestablishmentarianism" was a religious movement first, and then those opposed to it became "antidisestablishmentarians." While the word itself seems redundant, its etymology is grounded in a historical series of events.
A word is defined as "a single distinct meaningful element of speech or writing." A "meaningless word" is an oxymoron.
I'm just giving you a hard time, so let's laugh and move on. I agree that "irregardless" needs to die a painful death.
Irregardless = Meaningless Word
Meaningless Word = Oxymoron
Irregardless = Oxymoron
I think it's funny how you pointed out exactly what I was saying. I'm not upset or anything about it...I was poking fun at the use of the word but I'm not bent out of shape. I know that it's considered a word in American Lexicon but that doesn't mean I have to agree with it.
Laughed. Moved On.
it won't
You missed my quotes around "meaningless word." The phrase is the oxymoron.. I like your style, though.
I missed nothing. If they can bend the rules, so can I
I like how you guys are able to conversate without flaming one another.
~converse
Ah, I figured somebody would hit on that bait. lol
I debated whether I should respond or not....I figured it was intentional so I thought I'd humor you
Leg for participating.
proof that if you do something wrong long enough, people will start to think it's right.
The thing that bothers me most about language is that once enough people use something incorrectly, it becomes correct by definition.
that ain't true
Hmm..maybe I should just tell everyone to put the same wrong answer on my test Thursday..
YOLO
I had a mental debate in my head before typing this because I remember this argument. I made the wrong decision.
i was just giving you a hard time...NBD
Hate to hear that for Juice. Encouraged by Brewer's progress, but I don't feel good about rushing him back this soon, especially with the OL in it's current state. Hope to see him back on the field at some point this season, though. Who thinks he could be on a Chad Morris offensive staff next year back home in Texas? I think he would be an excellent coach.
No need to leave the burg if he wants to start coaching...
Would be great, but a lot of uncertainty around here. Would probably jump at a chance to reunite with his high school coach at a school back home I'm sure.
As a GA would he really be effected by coaching changes?
Probably not, but just postulating that, if given the opportunity, he might want to be closer to home and reunited with Morris. I think the families are pretty close too if I'm not mistaken. If he doesn't do that, absolutely sign me up for him coaching here next year if that's what he wants to do.
Also SMU is the only school that has offered his brother Charlie so far, though he also has interst in VT and Texas.
I wish he would stick around. But the dude is a Texas boy through and through. He would jump at the opportunity to coach down there.
Aweso-
Fuck.
Brewer is an animal. I am not surprise he has been cleared.
I am not surprised on Marshawn. I never wanted to him to try and play this year. We have too many rb's right now, redshirting should have always been in the cards for him.
This is crazy. At least NC State won't know which QB to prepare for.
Motley looked pretty hurt at the end of that game. It looked like he jammed that shoulder pretty good. Right now, I think it is a 50% chance Mot starts, 30% Brewer, 20% Lawson.
I really don't care who it is. I just want to see a team effort by the players and the coaches with everyone on the same page. We need to be playing with a chip on our shoulder. Everybody is writing us off, as they should, but this is an opportunity for the players to prove everyone wrong and that this season is far from over.
Wait....fully cleared to practice...in a yellow no-contact jersey...so he's either healthy enough and we're just being preventative and hoping he hasn't forgot what it feels like, or we've rushed him back and he still needs a week or two to take licks...
QBs are always in yellow for practice.
Can you recall ANY point that QB's haven't been in Yellows for practice, the only time I recall where when Durkin, Lawson, and Ford were live for the scrimmages last Spring and this summer, even Brewer and Mot were in yellow
True, but that went without saying. Maybe I'm reading too much into it....
Just seems like we'd want him to take A hit in practice to get him right in the head about being good...
Player re-injures himself while recovering from injury
Seems to happen rather frequently nowadays. So frequently that you have to question whether or not its bad luck, or if we're doing something that contributes to it. Seems to me like we're asking these kids to do more than they should be doing in practice, leading to these kinds of injuries.
When we reach TCU defense level of injuries I will worry, down 7 starters on the year. Kids are bigger and faster sooner than eve and they get hit with more force more often.
Honestly, I really don't know if we should be putting Brewer back out there too soon behind our O-Line. I fear for the kid's life. We saw how Motley's protection was handled and he has decent size to hold up some of the bumps and bruises. As for Brewer at 198 pounds taking those same shots that Motley took this past weekend?? Ouch! Reminds me of the UVA game last year. The kid is tough as nails, but do we really want to see Brewer rushed back to be helped off the field? I don't. If he's honestly ready to go we'll find out. Maybe this line only plays for Brewer, or he holds the key to get them going or something.
They played pretty good for Motley against Furman, Purdue, and ECU.
Yes they did. Can't take that away from them. But let's look at the talent level against those three teams....Can't compare with Pitt though.
Pitt's talent level is decent but it isn't that good.
The offensive line didn't do Motley any favors and Motley didn't do the offensive line any favors. They both stunk up the joint and that just compounded the problems.
Definitely a concern, but Brewer has better pocket awareness and can get rid of the ball much quicker when he needs to.
This post leaves me not knowing how I should feel....
For me, it's sort of like I've felt since Saturday.
Can't.....catch.....balance....
Don't rush Brewer in. Please oh please don't, not with that offensive line.
Brewer's a tough kid, he's not gonna say he won't play because he doesn't feel 100%. My fear is he goes back in not fully healed, gets re-injured, and the coaches will be like "Oh Brewer said he could play and we believed him". Like many injuries the past few years, the players will try toughing it out but it's on the coaches to make the final decision.
Complete speculation, but didn't they go back and change the date on when they originally said Marshawn got hurt from a day when there was no practice to one where there was? Could this be the cause of the reinjury and they wanted it to seem like he did it in practice?
I saw that on his twitter, but I have no idea what that thing is
It's basically a segway without the big handles to hold onto.
What he said. ^^
Hoverboard. It's big with da kids right now. If you're big dude, and you aren't used to it, you could totally do in a surgically repaired knee on that thing.
just watched a youtube on it....looks like the most lazy and unnecessary thing ever to be produced.
AND WE LIKED IT
This release does the exact opposite of convincing me that Michael Brewer is fully recovered and ready to play football again.
What could they have said differently other than he's participating full contact in drills (which is something QBs almost never do - especially during a short week)?
Well, he's not getting full contact because he's in yellow... but that's the case with all of the QBs. However Brewer was in pads last week doing some throwing, so this latest release has got to indicate that something has changed.
It may be a decoy move just to give the Pack something to think about, but I might retract my original prediction of Brewer in uniform on the sidelines for NC State, and back for Miami. I just think something is up with the Motley situation. I watched the Pitt game today, and I saw the whole not helping him up deal, but I also saw a lot of Motley alone time on the bench. I'm not feeling a "rallying around him" kind of vibe.
If that's the case, which is pure speculation on my part,and if the coaches get any sort of greenish light from medical that Brewer is a player, I think they jump at the chance to get him in there.
I would. Hell, he broke a perfectly good collarbone on one play in the OSU game. If he can throw and move with the new and improved one, what are you saving it for? 2 - 4 with two conference losses? The offensive line is not going to be any better this week, or this month. If he can play, let him play.
During the Pitt game, they said that he was going to have an MRI Monday and the hope was that he would be cleared to play. The past few weeks that he has been throwing, were just that, him throwing, he was not cleared medically; now he is.
He's not medically cleared to play. He was only cleared to practice -- with no contact..
I think we see Brewer this week. Just my gut. Needs fast release, throw the ball away, avoid contact.
My guess is that he starts this week. So much negatively swirling around the program, we need some positive juju.
Somebody say JuJu?
Hadn't seen or heard anything about JuJu in years. I had forgotten, according hokiesports, he had
I think with Brewer cleared, the only way they keep him off the field is if they hog tie him. Kid wants to be out there even more than we want to see him out there.
I'm ready for some freshy, fresh at this point. And that's meant in a good way. I want to change the menu just for the hell of it.
Give me some Lawson, a dash Durkin, and oh...throw in a side of Caleb.
To go.
You know, Travon and Bucky both played quarterback in high school...
And so did Sam Rogers.
One thing you cannot put the blame on the coaches for is Marshawn reinjuring himself. Most ACL recoveries take 6-8 months to recover from, 8-10 if you are a college football athlete. Marshawn is now 10 months. He reinjured it around the latter part of when the recovery is supposed to happen. That is just bad luck. Maybe next time we will see him out on the field with an ACL brace or something like that. But the coaches letting him go too soon is not at play here, in my opinion. I tore mine recently, felt good to go play soccer (in a brace) 3 months post-op. Marshawn had to have felt ready to go 9.5-10 months post-op.
At this rate, Marshawn is gonna end up splitting carries with Drew Harris.
This is classic
I don't think Marshawn hurt himself rehabbing. Rehab programs are specifically designed to only help you, not hurt you. Whatever Marshawn did to himself was on his own time or on the football field.
As others have pointed out, the way injuries are handled at VT is starting to feel a little similar to RG3, which really concerns me.
I cannot believe some of you Hokie fans really believe that our medical staff is so negligent and incompetent as to place a player back on the field before he is ready. There are tests and protocol evaluations an injured athlete must pass before being cleared. Y'all also forget how competitive these kids are. They want to play ASAP. Many years ago, I destroyed my knee sophomore year of college football and had major reconstructive surgery after the season. I still ran with a limp in Fall camp my Junior year, but NOTHING was going to keep me off that football field. I played on it and made all conference center. But if I had re-injured the knee, I would not have blamed anyone and that was in the olden days before all the fancy rehab.
Along those lines, a few months ago I went back and re-watched the 2002 LSU game and was very surprised when they mentioned that Grant Noel was starting the game, despite tearing his ACL in the Spring game just 4 or 5 months earlier.
Damn, I love that screen shot. I'm ready to move on to kicking the Pack's asses.
Go Hokies!
FYI, Brewer has been listed as probable for Friday night...