Hardcore speculation from "insiders" on TSL and 247 that this will indeed be Frank's last year. I know it's speculation at worst, but where there's smoke there's fire.
EDIT: Phew! Didn't realize my thread would lead to whole essays / books on the subject. Go Hokies!
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no
They can speculate on #DeezNuts
Deez Nutz for prez?
DeezNutz for RB coach.
Fuck yeah. Deez nutz just beat NC State. Let's go.
No sauce = speculation, by definition.
Just because they paid money to be behind a paywall doesn't give them better information to spew out.
Sauces is what makes the information better, not whether it's paywall or not.
If you have an identified, credible source, you start believing the rumor. Otherwise, like you say, it may just be the interwebs talking.
I mean in the last three weeks, Kiffin was out at Bama for sleeping with someone and Butch was out for hitting a player. The interwebz are a cesspool no matter if you paid to get that crap or not.
But... But... But... it was paid insider info. Its gotta be accurate right? I mean its paid for? And its insider. And on the internet.
Yeah speculation!
But I thought really well done information stands on its own without sauces? It's only crappy information that needs sauces to mask its quality. Or are you one of those guys who slathers perfectly good information with sauces whether it needs it or not?
I see what you did there. It's like pulled pork is good on its own, but when you hit it with #sauces it can take it to another level.
I hope they are right
I hope they're off by one year.
Why? You think next year is going to be better?
Might be. You think it's going to be worse?
Before tonight, VT's record against FBS teams (over the last 10 games) at home was 2-8.
You didn't answer my question
I'd guess similar. Some good wins but some inexcusable losses.
Fair enough. If we have a bowl-caliber season, a win over LOLUVA, and, hopefully, a chance to go to the ACCCG, I'll be very happy with a year like that, given the years we've had recently.
I thought GT was going to be the best team in the division by a wide margin this year, but now that I'm watching them against Clemson, I might have been way wrong. We still aren't out of that conversation even with some disappointing losses this year.
Two of these don't speak to anything better than mediocrity. The third, yeah, going to the ACCCG means something. But getting a bowl and beating UVA are not that much to brag about anymore.
Ask any other program that recently hit a nosedive, and they may argue.
We were cursing 2-3 loss seasons 6 years ago, and when we missed the ACC championship game every now and then we were heartbroken.
I'm sure UVA would be ecstatic to beat us and go to a bowl every year for a decade.
Michigan burned a dumpster outside the stadium last year, Texas still has theirs going, Miami hasn't sniffed a conference championship since they were in the Big East, USC still hasn't gotten it back since Pete left, OSU was undefeated a couple years ago for nothing.
I guess what I'm trying to get at is, it could be way fucking worse. Like real bad.
So is that your standard?
If you accept mediocrity as a possibility, you'll likely get there.
If you constantly believe the green grass is greener on the other side, you'll soon find what many others have found out...it usually isn't.
But.... you just said, the grass on the other side is green... Ours is dying
We know what color our grass is.
This, yes, kicaboojooce.
If a year where we beat LOLUVA and go to a bowl represents bottoming out, then I'd be content with hitting bottom while we get ourselves back into shape to compete first for an ACCCG, then winning the ACCCG, then earning a playoff spot. Since we don't appear to be playoff bound anytime soon, I'd like for us to play at least a game in December.
Jan 2014
wow
Love, love, love that's it's held up with duct tape.
Worse or similar. Both are inadequate.
What is the Road FBS record during the same period?
It's not going to be worse, but it's not going to be better.
Recruiting-wise it definitely is not going to get better. We're already struggling on the trail due to the uncertain future in the coaching department, and I can't imagine many kids would be lining up to commit next year not knowing who their coach is going to be until December/January.
Oops. Sorry, disregard. Drink me posted in the wrong threat
Edit - was drunk. Posted in wrong thread.
These are the same guys that broke the Bud to A&M rumors, that we all bally-hooed, and then it came to light that there was discussions between the two parties.
So I'm going to go ahead and say it's not completely BS information.
Bingo. My personal philosophy with insiders - never trust their takes on how good the team is looking in the offseason, or how good recruiting is going. Every class we get is a B+ in their book. But they do have good insight on what is going on, who is talking to whom, etc.
I echo feeding Sam
There's a lot more to firing a head coach in college than most people here seem to be thinking about. I don't have any data to back this up, but I would guess the vast majority of the big money donors are Beamer fans. If the AD were to fire the HC, he could find himself without any money coming in next year. I am a fairly new Hokie Club member, and my donation is barley enough to buy 2 new jockstraps each year, but I would have to reconsider my giving if things got ugly. Now imagine what Whit has to go through to keep Wes Worsham happy.
I don't have any data to back this up, but I would guess the vast majority of the big money donors are Beamer fans.
True, but they're also VT fans.
Beamer has always said he'll know when he's not an asset to the program as head coach.
Edit: and he hasn't been looking healthy lately.
I don't think it will be a firing. I think Coach Beamer's health is the main concern. No #sauces, but the missus is a nurse and is concerned.
That's interesting. My wife is also a nurse, and she also said this weekend that he doesn't look good.
Just a coincidence, not to be confused with actual information or sauces.
With 3 sisters and my wife being nurses, I never discount the observational powers a nurse builds during her career.
I also thought in one of the pictures of Beamer doing an on-field post game interview, that he didn't look too healthy. But during a weekly press conference, like when he wears the maroon blazer, he looks like he is much better condition.
FUCK YO #SAUCES!!!
Honestly, it's time
I know we won, but this team is still a bit of a mess. We out talented State tonight. With better coaching, we obliterate them. There are still plenty of little things we are struggling with that we shouldn't be struggling with.
Presnap penalties being a major one
It seemed to me that most of our presnap penalties were on recievers. I know that one was on Bucky and I believe that there was also one on Cam. Looking at the play by play, our penalties were:
Defense
Substitution Infraction (5 yards)
Offsides (Offset with holding by NC State)
Offsides (5 yards)
Pass Interference (Spot foul, 16 yards)
Total Defensive Yardage: 26
Offense
Illegal Block (Half the distance, 7 yards)
False Start (5 yards)
False Start (5 yards)
False Start (5 yards)
Total Offensive Yardage: 22
Team Yardage: 48
I'm not sure who the 3rd false start penalty was on but our offensive line had a pretty good game penalty wise.
You are missing an ineligible downfield where Bucky lined up on the LOS and covered up Malleck
It must be one of the false starts, we only officially had 7 penalties in the game and there are 8 listed when the offsetting one is included. I pulled them all from ESPN's play by play and I think they use false start for any illegal procedure penalty, similar to how they used illegal block for the chop block.
I've never known the legit people on TSL to be wrong. They tend to be pretty conservative when it comes to commenting on rumors and don't overstate what they know. If Will or Chris says it, you can take it pretty seriously.
EDIT: I'd also like to point out that the folks at TSL haven't that this WILL be Frank's year, just that it's not looking good. They had thought he'd be here through next year, but that that is looking increasingly less likely. They think this will probably be it for Frank.
Well, it either is or it isn't. We'll know for sure sometime around/after the end of the season most likely.
#Analysis
There are ultimately two people who can make a decision on Frank Beamer's future, Whit Babcock and Frank. Whit has the power decide whether to retain or fire Frank. And while it doesn't seem plausible, Frank could always decide to retire (health issues, or any number of other reasons). I believe Babcock will wait for the season to conclude before making any type of decision. He plays his cards close to his vest.
My guess is information hitting message boards are from boosters, not from Babcock's inner circle.
Or Frank has told the team. Ther is some advantage to that to get the best performance. It can also be a distraction to the coaching staff. If this is his last year, he shouldn't tell anyone until the UVA game.
If Frank told the team, it would get out quickly.
I think Frank will step down at the end of this season or next. I don't think he'll be fired.
The one person you leave out is President Sands.
While I HIGHLY doubt he would ever step on Whit like that, if Frank and Whit truly could not come to an amicable way forward, its doubtful Whit wouldnt pull the trigger without a say so from Sands, meaning Sands thus is also the one person who could override that choice.
Unlikely but theoretically in the cards.
And of course if Beamer were to get high on Coke and murder 3 hookers then Sands would probably bust out a megaphone and walk down Main Street proclaiming coach's firing.
I'm surprised to find out that Sands would be that concerned about a shortage of hookers in Blacksburg.
#HighUpTheFoodChainSources in Hokie Club have mentioned that Whit will not replace CFB after this year, regardless of record.
That wouldn't surprise me. I'd more hope Beamer leaves on his own terms. But those terms should be as he's stated them: that he'll leave when it's the right time for the program.
I don't think Whit is going to fire Frank. Question is when does Frank think it's his last year. He's mentioned many times that he doesn't want to stay too long. I don't think Frank gets fired unless the rest of this year tanks and the year after that is a dumpster. And not a dumpster in our terms, 6-8 wins, but a real UVA esque dumpster fire. I'm talking 5 or less wins and a loss to UVA. That happens two years in a row Whit may fire Frank, but other than that i don't see it. Now does Frank decide to hang it up one of those years?? My guess is after next year but Whit and Frank talk about it this year so Whit can get a leg up on a coaching search....quietly.
Why do I have a down vote here?? Nothing from g with my post. So!meome needs to read the reasons for downvotes. Rookies.
Probably incidentals. Please don't sweat random -1's. I offset them when I see them (just did). Mostly happen when people are scrolling on mobile and not worth starting meta tangents.
No worries was drimkimng while watching the redskins when I saw it ha ha
watching the redskins will drive anyone to drimk and downvote tangents
Just showing love man
Those 247 and TSL comments are more wishful thinking than fact based. 247 especially wants Frank gone after this year regardless of record. I don't think any of them are sauce based.
FWIW....I agree with them. It was a great run but let's move on.
At the end of the 2016 season we'll be looking for a new head coach. I have no sources or sauces...whatever the hell that is, just common sense.
I bet y'all a paycheck that a conversation has already been had between CFB and WB about that.
Now, the part I can't figure out. Is it announced as in a going away season or ticker news at the bottom of the tv? How does doing it one way or the other affect recruiting?
Can't speak for TSL, but on 247 nobody "in the know" is stating that he is definitely gone after the year, only that it is possible, which isn't exactly saying anything we can't infer ourselves. I highly doubt any final decision has been made at this point. A lot can happen in the next six games that can sway the decision one way or the other.
From what I have heard on my end is that Whit is putting feelers out to potential hires. IMO I think frank needs to retire, he has done wonders for VT! Frank has had some serious health issues this past year(cancer) and this came directly from one of the coaches. While I would love for him to bring us back to a natty, I just don't think he has it left in him. We are very soon going to entering a new era of VT football! Let's just hope Whit hammers it like the Buzz hire!
Cancer? Really?
Claiming cancer without a solid source is disrespectful, in my opinion. Not cool at all.
who's to say he doesn't have a solid source, just because he didn't make it public to you or anybody here doesn't mean his source isn't solid.
By definition, if you aren't willing to cite the source then it's not solid.
yes.... if you are writing an essay. Lots of people hold the name of their sources out of respect. Im not saying the OP's source is solid or not (I don't know), but just because they don't name their source doesn't disqualify it from being solid right away.
If there's no source, then it's the OP who is the source, and it's their credibility that's at stake.
I generally don't believe rumors unless I know the source. No source doesn't mean it's false, but it does mean the information is suspect.
yes we all know that, but they have a source but chooses not to cite it. Does that mean its solid? No.... but does that mean it can't be solid? No as well.
Which by definition means , it's not credible news. Even the tabloids are right sometimes, doesn't mean we have to start taking their word as gospel, except for the MIB.
I think journalists around the world would disagree. For example Deep Throat in Watergate (dammit and I was trying to avoid "-gate".
Just because it isn't a cited source doesn't discredit it. The facts will come out in time regardless of source. But not naming a source is often the staple of journalism as a whole. It protects whistleblowers while exposing the truth.
That's not to say every "sauce" is credible. However not naming a sauce does not discredit either. You would need to look at the poster/journalist whatever to deem if you trust that person's judgement on their source.
thank you
Except even the paper vetted their story and put their financial lives on the line.
The paper vetted their story as much as they could. However the reporters didn't give up their source to anyone. That's why we only found out who the guy was a few years ago.
TKP is not about to vet the story of some random poster. It is an internet post, take it for what you will. However saying that source is not credible because someone doesn't cite their source doesn't necessarily make the source invalid.
FWIW I don't necessarily believe the OP just saying that it is not necessary to cite a source in order for a story to be credible. For a story to be credible you need to have faith in the publication. The publication would need to have faith in it's writers. Now the OP is not a TKP staffer so this isn't even a question of whether or not you believe it TKP (I mean who doesn't?!) Anyone can feel free to believe whatever they will about this story from the OP.
I'll edit my thought then...a random poster that knows a guy that said such and such will never be news to me until it's substantiated. Respected journalists can fly with one source if it's a damn good one, but even then usually want more than one.
somethings may or may not be true but you can't just discredit something right away just because it doesn't have a source when the OP first writes it
Like I said, without a source, it's no better than conjecture, and the OP's credibility is the one that's at stake.
Doesn't mean it isn't true, just means it isn't substantiated, and is treated no differently than rumor.
I could call out the source, but right now is not the time. If there are staff changes at the end of the year I will give you the name. But with us struggling and still needing to recruit, I think its better to hold off.
I don't see why there's anything that makes speculating about health any more disrespectful than other topics people speculate about on message boards. They speculate about his motivations, his abilities, future, etc. Hell, people frequently accuse him of nepotism, and occasionally selfishness for not retiring sooner. Plus, no one is accusing him of having an affair or something scandalous.
And FWIW, the guy smoked for years (according to people I've talked to that have been friends with him since the early 70's). He had a mysterious throat surgery (that apparently couldn't wait until after the bowl game or signing day) that he won't talk about that seemed to take a real toll on him. A lot of people think it was probably cancer, and honestly, that doesn't seem unlikely at all.
I think discussing health crosses a line where it's more personal and less professional.
These are all football related topics. His health is indirectly related. When we discuss his motivations, knowledge, football IQ, etc, it's based on his on the field performance. We're just speculating about his health, which results in rumors being spread. I wouldn't want rumors being spread about my personal health.
I will not name my source and I never have given out info that has not already been posted but the poster is correct.
I also am confident that it is not an issue at this point with the most significant current impact being speach. That being said, CFB kept the issue quiet until the surgery last fall.
I don't have any #sauces ...just the power's of observation. Older guy, throat surgery, cancer risk is noticeably higher in the throat and mouth for men with a partner with HPV who perform oral. You are a real man Frank. #sauces
Honestly with this comment I feel Whit either explains himself or the hammer needs to come down. This is widely off base for this page to have on it.
Wow. -38 for a joke about Frank making his woman happy? Seriously need to lighten up TKP community. At least I don't blast people without good reason.
Seriously, dude. Quit while you're behind.
Will do.
I didn't see the big deal. Some people here will just down vote just because a lot of others do
It was simply inappropriate and in bad taste.
I don't know where the line is, but that's clearly way over it.
Bringing a second person into the health discussion did it.
When I was in Iraq, we had alteration shops on base that would make patches for our uniforms aside from repairing them. They would also make any patch you came up with yourself. My commander had a "Sensitive" tab made that was in the same style as a Ranger or Airborne tab. He would make anyone that got seriously butt hurt over things wear it around. I think we could distribute a few in this case.
lol you are definitely right about that, way more than a few though!
Remind me to never play Cards Against Humanity with TKPers...
Helen Keller.
Pacman furiously guzzling something or other.
Two midgets.....ok, that wasn't going anywhere good.
arnie3959 , you are right on , what you have heard is pretty close to the facts. I just hope Frank Beamer Leaves with a winning season. And I think if he gets that, he will be very happy with everything . He is a VT Man and has made VT in Football. But the Time has come and I believe he knows that. Just hope for the best for Him and in Whit getting a good coach for VT.
I hate that we would speculate about Frank's health on this blog. He deserves better than this.
I have no #sauces besides the cranberry one Mama Fuller serves at Christmas, but as has been said many times, Frank busted his ass to get that Bristol game. I always thought he was going to coach that game and then hang it up. I don't see him leaving before next season. I think Whit will respect that and be patient. The Hokie internet may eventually spontaneously combust after a loss next season, but I don't think that matters as much as we like to think.
Would it not be the coolest thing ever, if that time has come, for Whit to get a top-notch hire for VT HC at the end of this season, but to announce that VT and the new HC had agreed that FB should coach the Bristol game as a sign of respect and acknowledgement for all he's done for VT, and make the whole event a huge tribute for Frank. Unprecedented, but representative of VT's character, and I believe it would garner a huge amount of respect from the college football world and future recruits. The ultimate retirement party!
Here was my plan before this season imploded (I have since changed my opinion)
Here's How it Goes
The Monday before the Bristol game at the Press conference Beamer announces his plans to retire and how 30 years has been great and long story about other past players and coaches. As he's wrapping it up in his One More Thing a la Steve Jobs, he's retired at the end of regulation of the Tennessee game.
Game tickets sellout and skyrocket on stubhub
On Thursday it's announced that interim Head Coach will be Bud Foster and after the Handshakes are made all coaching question go to Bud. Major audience at the Post game for an introduction. Bud is coach for all 2016 and told that VT will do a full search after the season. Based on the results of 2016 we get to see if Bud is the next coach. He's involved in operations enough that there is no loss for the change. Besides Offensive play calling Bud is currently doing it for Tech Football.
So based on 2016, we get to see the results on the field and follow his press conferences and any recruiting news.
Interviews are held over the winter and Mid January a decision can be made and everyone has had a shot at it.
Recruiting wise Tech's always be around the 24th percentile of recruiting. Most of the verbal commits are Virginia (~60%) kids well intent on going to VT so a coaching change would only help the team, See Buzz Williams Recruiting.
Not unprecedented to have two head coaches. Urban when he left Utah and Kyle Whittingham were co head coaches for the bowl game, both got credit for the win in NCAA and school records.
No, not cool at all. Hire a new coach and turn the page. Name the new indoor facility the Beamer Barn and be done.
Well I think it sounds pretty damn cool. We just need Joe to write a well timed article to plant the seed, since his running back rotation article was obviously the catalyst to the situation we saw Friday night.
There are hundreds of way to make the battle of Bristol all about Beamer, without actually having Beamer coach.
- Pregame Festivities
- Coin Flip
- Sideline appearances
- Video montages
- Awards
- Naming of facilities
- Gifts
- Etc.
If Beamer retires this year, then you make the Battle of Bristol all about Beamer, his legacy, and what he means to all of Virginia and Eastern TN.
As I mentioned above I think Frank retires after next season, however he probably tells whit of his decision and which lets Whit begin the coaching search (c'mon someone exciting!!). Whit won't fire frank beamer.
Or in a completely surprising move, after the 2016 season Frank tells ESPN as long as he has a kicker and his health he'll coach. No mention of any other positions of importance.
I hadn't heard any cancer rumors but the medical folks in my immediate mentioned that some of the visual observations mildly mimicked minor stroke thingies. But what caught my ear at the picnic this year was the comments by Bud & Lefty that "We're playing this year for Frank!". That sure sounded like it had some finality to it or maybe I'm totally reading too much into it. My gut says Whit will give him Bristol if Frank himself doesn't call it quits after this year.
The small handful of highly connected folks that post on the boards are usually right, but not always. And some of them are more connected than others.
Basically, they're right unless they're not.
VT is sounding a lot like Penn State and FSU.
Recruiting will fall? NO. Not as long as any/the right coach is brought in. See our basketball program. Adjusted for number of football teams, VT basketball recruited a Top 10 recruiting class. VT Football and basketball recruiting were in about the same spot. Remember the whole staffing fiasco over keeping our Head coach because of his great recruiting. As it is VT has a pretty good team 247 College Team Talent Composite Ranking has VT at 29. Coach up your players and out coach other teams and your Top 25. Not coach up your players and get out coached not Top 25. UVA is 30 and Baylor is 31
I doubt Whit would fire Beamer but, he can probably talk to him about making that decision for himself this year. As a Beamer fan I think Beamer deserves to go out in a night game on a sellout over an ACC team, like UNC this year as a final home game media spectacular. Maybe frank doesn't want that and that's why he won't announce his retirement til Jan 1st.
I'd rather talk football, mid-season and all, than all this speculation about CFBs health and retirement, etc.
I just don't feel right about it. It's a personal and hard thing and all this chatter can't make it easier.
It does feel a bit awkward, but fan discontent is valuable feedback. Otherwise it's easy for head coaches to rationalize what's happening in their program.
It's worse if fans stop caring.
I think you can still care about wins or losses without speculating on the coaches job (face it, he is not getting fired midseason, so why speculate midseason?) consantly, claiming #sauces about his health, etc.
Discontent could be "man we lost and I hate it, I want better." All these "Should/will/when/why fire Beamer" threads every week are rather redundant.
I think the discontent needs to be made known, so that people can use it as input into their decision-making. No we don't need a "Fire Beamer" thread after every game, or even every loss.
Beamer won't get fired mid-season, but in my opinion, some of these losses and recruiting misses in recent years are unacceptable unless your end goal is to be in the middle of the ACC Coastal.
Fans have been screaming for a while now about swapping out running backs every play, pre-snap penalties, etc. We saw some changes this week that fans have been providing feedback about for weeks.
I don't think Beamer should be fired mid-season, but I do think that Whit and Frank need to be thinking about the future of the program, and that should be their biggest concern.
I sincerely doubt that Frank and Whit have not been working on turnover since Whit got settled.
There are plenty of other sites out there registering spewed stuff because we won't be winning a NC trophy this year.
They are well aware that people are not happy with results so far this year.
I am also well aware of the fans need to vent.
The weekly, "Fire Frank" was tiresome but understandable. The discussion of Frank's health was obviously germane when he had his surgery and it's normal off-season talk.
The escalation to "he's dying" stuff is unnecessary and in poor taste AFA I am concerned.
The only thing I find more tiresome than reading a comment that I disagree with is one that tells others what they should or should not be discussing.
I don't doubt that Frank and Whit discuss the future of the VT football program, but does that mean that the fans who support the program shouldn't provide commentary in the public space? Speculation on coaches futures are a pretty common topic in the fan space, particularly when fans aren't liking what they're seeing on the field. Winning on the field and in recruiting battles cures that quickly enough.
I hadn't seen the rumor you mentioned here until you brought it up. If you see unsourced rumors popping up, do what I do, and point out that they're unsourced.
It's all over a couple threads here.
Like I said, it's one thing the need to vent stuff regarding "Fire rank" I can still find that tiresome.
It's the other part that I don't care for.
False rumors are like whack-a-mole. Better to address them where they happen.
Who are you quoting? I don't think anyone has said he's dying. He may have a serious illness, which is reasonable assessment from medical professionals or people close to the situation.
Talking about health issues is typically taboo, considering the expectation of doctor-patient confidentiality. However, celebrities have a weird expectation to reveal their health when it affects their employment (See Magic Johnson, among many others). Furthermore, Beamer has said publicly, that as long as he has "his health, a QB, and a kicker," he'll keep coaching. Thus, Beamer has personally, although unintentionally and most likely tongue-in-cheek, opened up conversation of his health as it affects the future of the Virginia Tech franchise.
Most posters have been mostly respectful when discussing Frank's health. It is a major issue, and if people wish to discuss, they should. But people should also keep in mind that it is a sensitive topic, and thus proceed with caution.
Why not have him be the honorary head coach for the Bristol game? I think we should hire a new guy this offseason, and have Frank handover the reigns after the game.
I've never even heard of anything like that. If you hire a new coach worth anything, he wouldn't allow it. It is now his program, his staff, his recruits at the game, his show. It's too high profile important to allow a lame duck coach. The ONLY way anything remotely like that would be if Bud was the hire and Frank was an "honorary" coach but not actually coaching.
Urban Meyer and Kyle Whittingham at Utah.
Since we know Kyle Whittingham is cool with the idea, we should go ahead hire him.
That was somebody on the staff currently and it was the last game of a current season, not with an entire offseason having passed and a new season started and a new regime.
You hire new coach he takes over and CFB is just co "head coach".
If the only reason to keep Beamer around is to have him coach the game at Bristol, is a mistake to keep him around. You do far more harm than good to a program by pulling something like that.
Yeah, there's a lot more at stake than that, and you can certainly honor Beamer without him being the head coach.
The Battle at Bristol should not be a consideration in coaching decisions.
I think the Battle at Bristol is a perfect opportunity to introduce a new coach. Pay homage to Beamer before the game however we see fit and acknowledge the great success we had in the past due to him. Then, turn to the game and showcase the new era of VT football. Totally agree that keeping him around another season solely to coach that game is a mistake that just ensures another season of mediocrity and delays our inevitable rebuild by another year.
Leg here. Mk your scenario is perfect. When everyone will be watching. Let CFB be honored on the biggest stage we will ever play on. Would TN agree though. Might steal their thunder? I think him for all he has done but it is time. Time has taken it toll. But that is normal. Used to me when I was challenged I would puff up like a rooster. Now its just ...meh.
I am all for Beamer being a Grand Marshall for the VT UT Bristol Game..
Hire a new HC, Beamer stays on board with Football in a lower position while also getting to experience the Game he helped create.
Problem Solved?
Every fiber of my being that loves college football says this is absolutely the wrong way to look at this situation.
When I was growing up I only watched NFL. Pretty much up until arriving to a certain campus in the mountains of rural SW Virginia. At that point I became a lifelong fan of the Hokies and college football. And one of the things, if not the thing, I love and fell in love with about the game were the storied programs with rich history. Programs that had almost mythical stories about what the school and a football team of students did that was about more than just the game and business. It's what makes college football different to me. Makes it more for me. What it needs more of.
And I tell you if we look at whether Frank should be coaching at Bristol with a purely business eye we will regret it. It's one of those moments in school/program history that could and should be about more than just the game and recruiting. It's a program defining moment in terms of our history, not our bottom line.
I don't know what Frank is going to decide. This year, next year, the year after that... No clue. No sauces. But ... GET FRANK TO BRISTOL.
I don't get the quote above, how is a 1 off game at a NASCAR track a program defining game in terms of history..
In 2 years no one will care that VT and Tenn played a Game at Bristol other than VT and Tenn fans. IMO it's a gimmick game, its an exact replica of the College Football game at Jerry World only difference is its a 1 time thing instead of an every year type thing ala Jerry World weekend.
This game isn't going to transform VT into getting multiple top 20 recruiting classes or become an ACC title contender or jump start the VT for 2016 National Championship wagon.. Not saying a new HC will jump start that wagon either. Lets hypothetically say Beamer stays and we go 7-5, 6-6 or heck 5-7, at the end of the day a team with that record and possibly a ton of talent leaving after '16 season with an aging HC how does VT even stay competitive? Look at Spurrier's recruiting class for this upcoming year? It's not pretty they're ranked 32nd and for an SEC team that is in a so called "recruiting hot bed" that's pretty poor. For comparison SC's recruiting class last year was 19th, so in 1 year with all the news of Spurrier wanting to retire after this year it has helped cause a drop of 13 spots. VT's recruiting class for 2016 is ranked 34th for sake of the argument VT could also drop 13 spots and I think that only dropping 13 spots is being generous.
Hypothetically speaking we hire a new HC with a whole new staff and we go 6-6 5-7 or even 4-8 there will at least be some vision, an excitement about a new way at VT. He gets 1 year with his staff to work with a somewhat loaded team granted that most of the offense comes back and maybe fuller as well. That 1 year alone would hopefully show that VT has better days ahead of us and that ACC title appearances are right around the corner.
I understand going to a lower tier bowl game is cool and all but when is enough enough? I think keeping Beamer around as HC just for 1 game would be a bigger mistake especially going off of the past 3 years. We have yet to show any resemblance to the once feared ACC team we were in 2004-2011. Thursday night games at Lane are not what they once were. We're a mediocre ACC Coastal team that loses 1-2 head scratching games a year and somehow gets enough momentum late in the year to make a bowl game. Is that acceptable or what we as fans want.. I'd say no but sadly its what has become the norm for the past 3 years with each year more and more of the fan-base getting a little vocal.
The key thing is that Whit hires the right guy, if that right guy isn't available or has no interest in VT then that's another issue. Looking at the Buzz hire he did that, I find it hard to believe that he would not be able to do that for the football team.
Beamer got us to Bristol but I think its time for someone else to get us back to Charlotte where we belong.
I agree. The Battle at Bristol seems cool to VT and Tennessee fans, but at the end of the day, it's just a football game at a racetrack.
It's not "program defining". Coaching and recruiting is "program defining".
I absolutely would NOT make a decision on next year's coach based on a one-off game. I would make the decision based on who is the best person to lead VT next year.
If college football is ONLY about coaching hires and recruiting then it's time to pack up and make a minor league. All the tradition and pageantry is gone. Fortunately that is not yet the case.
College football is littered with feel good stories about programs winning symbolic things that add to the programs tradition and history. Most of those programs with the richest, most celebrated history also just happen to be in the top 25 year in, year out. They also just happen to have some of the best boosters in the country. They are also the most well known programs throughout the country for fans and non-fans alike. That's not coincidence.
So yeah, Bristol is a gimmick game. That completely misses the point. It will be the biggest game ever audience wise, and if the two schools are smart the start of a out-of-conference, cross border rivalry that would actually be good for our program (yeah, looking at you ECU). I am not saying Beamer should be retained ONLY to coach Bristol, but I think in terms of Virginia Tech Football pop culture lore the man that actually put our program and our school on the map coaching the biggest game ever (and likely that last big game for Beamer) is important. Important for our school and program's history.
We don't know what is going to happen. Maybe nothing. Maybe something. maybe something magical. But get the man to the game and win the phucking game. Do that and people will remember. It's meaningful beyond simply looking at recruiting.
In my business, there are 2 kinds of opportunities. Financial ones and strategic ones. This is a strategic one. If we do it right and something magical happens it will mean a hell of a lot more. If you do nothing, then you never have that opportunity.
What if we did win. And that win lead to an emotional last year run that saw our team keep winning. that would make history. You take that chance, once or twice in a program's history. And this is one of those times to take the chance.
Hell, Whit can use the season to find the coach he wants the most. It's a planned exit. If done right that would mean more to recruiting than just packing it up and hiring someone to come in immediately.
Great post!
I am not saying Beamer should be retained ONLY to coach Bristol, but I think in terms of Virginia Tech Football pop culture lore the man that actually put our program and our school on the map coaching the biggest game ever (and likely that last big game for Beamer) is important. Important for our school and program's history.
I think you exaggerate the importance of both this game, and having Beamer coach it. Currently, both Tennessee and VT have 3-3 records. For this game to be important, the teams need to be perceived as good. That perception is at risk.
If I'm a recruit, I want the best coach at the head of the program. I want the guy who can win games. Whit's decision is about program direction. His decision is predicated on getting the momentum of the program going the right direction. It's not about participating in one game.
This may be a strategic opportunity, but the strategy is in winning the game, and having the coach in place who is best able to do that. That is what Whit needs to consider. Football isn't a parade commemorating an historical event. It's a sport. If he thinks Beamer is the guy to lead the team through next season, then Beamer is the right choice. If not, he needs to go another direction.
I called it a gimmick game. How is that exaggerating it's importance?
You're still talking about recruiting. I am not discounting recruiting but I am talking about something more than that. Whit's decision is about program direction. So here are two choices:
1) End the career of one of College Football's legends by forcing him out because you want a new HC to come in simply because you want a shot at some better recruits this cycle
or
2) Plan an exit with that legendary coach to have one last year to make a statement, that starts with the largest game ever in history. As I said it may be gimmick. But the end to a career such as Beamer's with a season that starts with a game like that will mean much more if done right. And if not, your bringing in a new HC anyway.
Don't see your worries not being covered.
It's pretty much a guarantee, that it will not be the largest game by virtually every metric sans attendance.
It most certainly will not be:
-Largest viewing audience
-Largest in terms of importance
-Largest in terms of national attention
-Largest in terms of OOC competition
-Largest in terms of importance to Beamer's legacy
It's even arguable that it will not be:
-Largest attendance by VT fans - has VT sold their 40K allotment?
-Largest in terms of importance to recruiting
So, while technically not wrong, it's definitely misleading to call it largest game considering the metric you're using is pretty much based on Non-VT fan attendance.
literally said:
never said any of the others you listed.
edit: this reads more aggressive than intended. posted while rushing to metro so that's my excuse.
I feel I was specifically clear about the "largest ever" what and I called it a gimmick game, so I don't see how I am exaggerating or misleading. my core point is about something larger than that single game though.
I'm sure you mean attendance not audience. I am pretty certain it will not have a larger audience than 2015 OSU-VT, the Boise St game, or 2000 sugar bowl.
Nevertheless, I still don't see the importance. But, even if you are right, and this game means as much to Beamer as you think it does, I still do not see why he should coach. If VT's athletic dept. was a corporation (which in many ways, a P5 ath. dept. is like a corporation), it definitely would not be in the best interests to string along a corporate officer for the sake of something he built, at the expense of the corporation. The stock would plummet, investors would put their money elsewhere, and the corporation has a great chance of tarnishing its name and/or going under and never resurfacing.
I want to see VT win the ACC, make it to the playoffs, and more. I fear, the longer VT strings along Beamer for the sake of his legacy and name, at the expense of the program, the more likely VT never resurfaces to elite status. Maybe I'm wrong. But, I think the fear is legitimate.
Sidenote: I didn't feel your comment was over aggressive. But I read your comments in this thread to mean the game is super important to Beamer and VT, citing the "largeness" as one of the major reasons. Maybe, that was a minor overall point.
correct meant attending audience.
Well, Beamer has been trying to put this together for a long time so I am inferring there but I think it's quite important to him. don't see why he would put forth so much effort if it was just another game.
your point about ceo's is actually incorrect. there is a whole section of business studies dedicated to the strategy of exiting a ceo and as shown corporations will often keep a ceo until after launches or big company changes specifically to not upset stock or shareholders. it shows that exiting a ceo without strategy almost consistently leads to stocks falling and shareholder confidence being shaken.
i get the fear, but again i think what I am saying is not being understood. i'm not talking about keeping him until end of days, or stringing him along because he deserves to leave when he wants to. i am talking about a planned, strategic exit that could add to our program's tradition and prestige.
if everyone trusts Whit so much with a new HC hire then I see no reason why we couldn't trust him to get a planned exit right. If Beamer took next year to make his exit and behind the scenes Whit found the right person to take over it could be announced anytime next season. you could announce early and it could be the feel good story of the year. a legendary coaches last run. or you could wait, until say after we beat down lolUVA and then announce. It would still be plenty of time for the new HC to make waves in recruiting.
I just don't get how that scenario can't control what you fear will happen.
So you're telling me that, when it is believed officers are the reason for major underperformance, a corporation will (1) lose millions of dollars, (2) risk breach of fiduciary duty to stockholders, and (3) tarnish the name of the corporation to keep an officer for the sake of implementing something he built, at the expense of the company?
I don't think I'm wrong. I think the economic incentives, legal liabilities, and social goodwill would definitely outweigh.
While a corporation may "keep a ceo until after launches or big company changes specifically to not upset stock or shareholders," that's not the scenario I described or VT is in. VT's "stock" has tanked, and does not look to resurface any time with current management.
https://hbr.org/2002/12/holes-at-the-top-why-ceo-firings-backfire
Numbers show companies are no better off with new CEO's and in many cases worse. Unless, as I say, you plan an exit.
https://hbr.org/2015/06/why-ceos-dont-get-fired-as-often-as-they-used-to
pretty much what I am suggesting to do.
http://www.cgma.org/magazine/news/pages/ceo-succession-201512182.aspx?Te...
http://press.pwc.com/News-releases/a-forced-ceo-turnover-costs-a-large-c...
https://hbr.org/2005/02/ending-the-ceo-succession-crisis
http://chiefexecutive.net/the-real-cost-of-firing-a-ceo/
The point is, in big business, if you want to do it right you plan an exit. You don't dump and hire. If you plan an exit and execute it the business will improve consistently. If you fire and hire it isn't proven to work out. Companies will even hold a bad CEO for much longer than expected to ensure a smooth transition.
and for the related college football perspective:
http://freakonomics.com/2012/12/21/is-changing-the-coach-really-the-answer/
so like I said, let's be smarter than the rest. We have a unique opportunity here. A legend of coach that can have an exit that he deserves while affording the school the time to plan and succeed at finding the right coach. All of that as business strategy studies and studies on college football coaching show is the right way to do things. And if we are lucky that last season turns into something that will become part of our programs recognized lore.
We're in year three of the exit strategy. Are you saying that it's a four-year one?
I'm really not seeing how an additional year changes much about this dynamic. You think next year's team is going to be head and shoulders above this year's team?
It's not about next years team. Not fully. Its about FRANK. It'a bout the future of this program. It's about find the right person for the job, next, that will be here for a good, long run, that will build on what foundation is there. (And no, I'm not talking about the last 5 years...I'm talking about the program that Frank built, the one with several 10 win seasons and 22 straight bowls.) The next guy is not going to be a 3 year and done guy. It's aobut the future, not the now.
What are you proposing, exactly, and how do you think that will help?
I agree with you that Whit should replace Frank with an excellent head coach.
Then again, they're saying that at UVa and UMD also. And all of these teams are prepared to throw money at the problem.
See above, several times.
What do you want to help? Winning 13 games next year? Or filling the trophy case in the next 10 years?
Personally, I want the trophy case. I want a coach that will be here for the long run, and bring success. A Bob Stoops type. I don't want to switch simply because we didn't win 10 games this year. It's about building the program back up, and taking the next step. Not change just for the sake of change. As the OG architect of the Hokies football program, Frank has earned next year (if he wants it.) Like I've said, that will give a good season (time frame, not wins) for Whit to find the proper fit for the VT family and program.
Let's be honest and real with ourselves. We are not a top tier program. We ARE a good job for a coach, but we aren't Bammer, or anOSU, or Oklahoma. And I'm fine with that. We're more like Iowa, Oklahoma State, Missouri, top second tier, winning 10 games, going to bowls; some of them big ones, and keeping the program going. We aren't gong to have the Sabans and Stoops knocking on our door to be our next coach. And no matter who is behind the wheel, we aren't going to win 15 games (or 10) next year. It's a process, not an event.
We have been to 22 straight bowl.s You know how many other schools would love to have that on their resume??? ALL of them. We have had more success, while bringing less to the table, than almost anyone else in the college football landscape. Yes, it's been a struggle the past few seasons. This one isn't over, either, and could still turn into a 9 win season, with a bowl victory, and yet another year holding the Commonwealth Cup. Personally, I'm willing to give Frank one more year, Whit the chance to shop the job to find the RIGHT guy who will come in and embrace the VT culture, and take the next step. We put the wrong guy in there in hasty fashion and we have 4 more years of crap, and will be in a worse situation that we are in now or could ever imagine.
I'm not suggesting hiring the wrong guy. I'm just not seeing how waiting one year helps all that much.
Whit knows what his short list is now, and what it will likely be next year, but with a 25% turnover in college coaches, each year has it's own opportunities and threats.
Once you make the decision that it's this year or next, the options become more "real".
I just don't understand the argument that a "farewell tour" is going to be better next year than this year, without even waiting for the results of THIS year.
And it' snot about $$$$. Maryland can spend $10million a year and be unhappy with their 8 wins, if they ever get there in the B1G. We aren't them. We have a different football culture. And I don't want us to become the Miami's and Bammers, and Auburns, and Texas' of the football landscape.
It's about the right guy for the job. See Buzz.
You know, Whit's first decision as AD was that Johnson wasn't getting it done. He didn't need a big exit strategy. He fired him, and went out and hired Buzz.
Sure, Beamer is a lot different, but do you think next year is the one that the rebuild finally takes? That seems to be what you're indicating.
Do you think Beamer has national championship aspirations? Or is he willing to take two years of losing to ECU as "just one of those things"?
Alabama lost two games last year, and Saban finds that unacceptable. VT lost against ECU, called it "preseason", and then proceeded to lose to Pitt.
I'm guessing that either a miracle occurs and this thing gets turned around, or it doesn't. Either way, I think by the end of the year it will be obvious what needs to happen.
What????? No. Beamer gets one more year. Then he's out. If he wins 1 game, or fills the trophy case, he's done. I've never said, or indicated, or implied, next year will be the year, that we will rebuild and win it all. Never. He gets a year because he's Frank. Because he's VT football.
And comparing our football and basketball programs is not even close. We won an NIT title (I was there.) And that's it. We've been ranked here and there. We've won a few games. But it's not like our basketball program is a mainstay in the big dance. Completely different things. Apples and oranges. There were years of decent play, but there is NO comparison there.
And like I've said, we're not Bammer. We don't have (or need to have) the same level or expectation that they do. And I don't ever want to be Bammer.
Why does Beamer get one more year again?
He's stated himself that he'll stay as long as he's a net benefit to the football program. Seems to me that's the standard HE layed out. It's up to him to follow that.
As far as basketball is concerned, VT was a bubble team for a few years under Greenberg. His recruiting classes were pretty good. He was unceremoniously fired in APRIL, the absolutely worst time to do that, and then replaced with a prior assistant. It is abundantly clear that it wasn't thought out at all. I'm glad Whit took the time and effort to right the ship in basketball. I don't see why we wouldn't expect the same level of attention to football.
I'm not sure I understand the logic behind "one more year". Please explain that part.
Show me where it was ever decided we were in ANY kind of exit strategy. lets not fabricate facts
I believe an exit strategy is indicated in a contract extension that provides for a salary for eight years after Beamer's coaching career is over.
That's not an exit strategy. That's succession insurance to make sure the program doesn't go off the rails once Beamer steps down. His contract and every contract a coach receives is a rollover contract based on performance.
That both Whit and Beamer were thinking about the post-Beamer world in their last contract extension makes it pretty clear that they're both thinking exit strategy.
Succession insurance? What's that?
That was agreed when Weaver was here. Before Whit.
Succession insurance are safety protocols setup to ensure that after leadership changes there is not a massive disruption in that business. As in the case whereby a longstanding successful CEO is moved to the board for a certain amount of time or indefinitely with oversight over said succession. suggest you read up on it to understand it more.
If as you falsely claim that was an exit strategy then the actual employment contract would have had set dates of termination, which it does not, and not have a rollover option, which it does.
So as I said before. Lets not fabricate facts
Virginia Tech shares details of Beamer's contract extension
September 06, 2011|By Norm Wood, nwood@dailypress.com | 247-4642
BLACKSBURG — — If Frank Beamer has it his way, he'll be coaching football at Virginia Tech beyond the 2016 season, but at least Tech now has the framework for an exit plan with the announcement of a new contract that involves keeping Beamer active in the athletic department after his coaching career.
It was also announced that when Beamer's coaching days are over, he will join Weaver, or whoever is Tech's athletic director at the time, in a special assistant to the athletic director role where Beamer will make appearances and act as a fundraiser for eight years.
"I think it's right for Virginia Tech," Beamer said. "It's right for me. We have an ending in place. It doesn't get awkward. That's what I think is important. We sat down and worked this thing out. I fully expect to coach a number more years, and I think they expect me to coach.
--------------
Weaver put some ideas in place, and Whit extended it by two years. Weaver, Beamer, and Whit have been aware that Beamer has a finite amount of time in his role at VT, and have spent time thinking through how that will happen. Unfortunately, it's human nature for a coach to want to hold that HC position for a bit too long.
If you read up on this, I believe you'll realize that others in this discussion also have a valid perspective.
Are those Norm Wood's words or Weaver/Whit's? With all due respect to Norm he is using the term incorrectly. An Exit Plan or Exit Strategy is the plan on how to actually exit/leave the position/business that you are in. Not what happens after you exit.
I respect valid perspectives, and I realize you and I are going toe to toe on a few things lately but I just think that we should not misrepresent this. We are not currently in an exit plan that anyone knows of. There has never been an announcement for that. Now there very well may be one behind the scenes between Whit and Frank but it has never been made public. So you saying we are in year 3 of that plan is just not correct.
I do apologize for being snarky though.
You can debate the meaning of exit strategy if you want, but you're the one kidding yourself if you think that the VT AD hasn't been considering the possibility of Beamer's retirement for years, or if you think Whit doesn't have some type of plan, and a short list of possible replacements, right now.
If we're thinking about it, you know Whit's thinking about it as well.
Frank Loeffler Bud and the whole coaching staff are already creating the "exit plan" with the play on the field.
More weeks like this one and Whit won't have to make a tough decision. He will make an easy decision to move on.
Exit Plan, Definition: The planned exit of an owner from their business .
http://www.entrepreneur.com/encyclopedia/exit-strategy
You keep stating things that you disagree with are up for debate. They are not. Just as the word inseparable has a specific meaning, so does Exit Plan. This is it. In business it specifically means the plan to exit. Not the plan after exiting. It's an important distinction.
When did I ever say this? come on dude. Stop making things up.
I fully believe that the topic of how Beamer exits the program has been in discussion for a long time from before Whit was hired. And as I correctly explained to you the plan for him to be a Special Adviser to the AD after he leaves his position has been established since Weaver was AD, therefore it is logical to infer that the topic has been discussed. However, no one here, including you, has any idea what those plans are. What we do know is that Beamer's existing contract is a rollover contract not an exit plan, and beyond that there is a plan to ensure the program is kept under control after a leadership change.
I fully believe that the topic of how Beamer exits the program has been in discussion for a long time from before Whit was hired... ...therefore it is logical to infer that the topic has been discussed.
-----------
You know what that's called? An exit strategy.
discussions are not an exit plan.
the discussion could have been:
Let's make sure we put you in a position after you leave, and set an employment contract with rollover options so we can decide the time to exit later.
Is that an exit plan? No.
you have no facts, only speculation. Stop making things up.
Your argument failed, so you switched to semantics and word parsing.
To claim that Whit and Beamer haven't considered the possibility of his retirement is specious.
You get NOTHING. You LOSE.
Good Day, Sir.
I totally agree with all these articles. You have changed your argument from "keep Beamer to coach Bristol" to "ensure Whit has a succession plan." While not mutually exclusive, definitely different arguments. And I wholeheartedly agree with your succession plan argument. However, none have taught contrary to my position that you cannot keep an officer to complete something he built at the detriment of corporation, but do teach one must not be hasty in turn-over, and a change in officers does not equal better. Both excellent points. In addition, this from the HBR article(https://hbr.org/2002/12/holes-at-the-top-why-ceo-firings-backfire) you provided is EXACTLY what I was suggesting:
Thanks for the reading. I think we're on similar pages, we both want a successful plan for turnover. We simply disagree on what a successful plan would entail. For the record, my idea of a successful plan is Whit and Beamer talking behind doors now; and Whit and his team putting in the research and networking now.
I never changed. I never said keep him only for Bristol. I said it was important to keep him for the game for a larger meaning. In fact I stated several times in my posts on this thread that keeping Beamer next season was an opportunity for a planned exit that can be executed well.
But yeah, we agree ultimately. I think the smartest play is to come up with a succession plan but I think there is also an opportunity to use next season as on opportunity to increase to our programs tradition.
Having a plan for "post Beamer" has been in the works at least since 2011.
While having him involved is important, I think it's also important to note that as much as he'd like to hand pick his successor, he'll provide input, but the choice isn't his exclusively.
You keep mentioning "increase our program's tradition". What do you mean by that? Beamer makes too much in salary to keep him around for a parade year. Either he's the most effective coach, or it's time for a change. The most important factor influencing tradition is to choose the best follow-on head coach, and coaching staff.
We see this completely differently.
To me you really seem short sighted on this, but I will try to explain. Tradition to me can be practically anything that happens, or comes up that becomes something that is common vernacular with fans, and if you are really luck non-fans. I will use the namesake of this website as one example: The Key Play
According to VT traditions page: https://www.unirel.vt.edu/history/students_alumni/traditions.html
This came about in the mid-80s for offensive plays. It stuck and evolved into 3rd down defensive plays, and then into the best damn VT website on the interwebs. It's something that happened at VT that has become synonymous with VT football. (yes I know it is done elsewhere too) This is one example of something that happened and become tradition. It's something great.
Other examples of our historical tradition include: Sackman, Terrordome, Thrus Night (though not what it used to be), DBU, etc.
These are all wonderful things we celebrate at VT as fans, but in the scheme of things our traditions and storied history is fairly bare compared to bigger teams we aspire to be. And as pointed out, those programs with that lore seem to always pull in recruits no matter how much coaching turnover they experience.
Notre Dame is arguably the most famous in terms of a program's history. Rudy is a good example of a storied lore or tradition that they have that grew to be nationally known. Win one for the gipper. Knute Rockne, Joe Montana and on and on and on.
We are no where close to them in terms of that level of awareness by general fans and non-fans alike. not even close.
Now look at those other long standing Beamer types and how it ended with them. Paterno, Bowden... poorly is the word to use. When if they were smart it should have been made into something that added to the school's tradition. Now people use Bowden as a adjective for being an old coach that won't let go, and paterno.. well even worse. They got it wrong.
So why not at least try to get it right. No one can predict what will happen next year. It could be a Cinderella run or we could miss a bowl game. Who knows. But what we do know is this. We have one of THE legend coaches in the history of college football. A man that has done more for the university than any other. We have the opportunity to try to make magic happen. Because if he does tell his team it's his last go and they run the table, or even if they get so close yet fall short, it will likely be one of the top 5 memorable seasons of Hokie football. And that will only add to our program's tradition and lore. Take us a notch closer to those programs that don't have to fight for recruits like we do, which is ultimately what you want.
There is no guarantee for that. But there is a guarantee that once Beamer leaves we are more than likely never going to have that opportunity again.
You have to allow for those chances. It's the long game, not the short game.
(note 1. And I think your definition of if Beamer is effective or not is skewed. While we all want championships he is still winning and going to bowls, in our "down" years. That doesn't happen very often.)
(note 2. Also as I posted elsewhere I see no reason why a new HC couldn't be announced sometime during the season and still have huge impact on recruiting whilst Beamer is finishing his career.)
I think you're the one shorting both Virginia Tech football and other fans.
Oddly enough, VT football and most of the traditions on the page you reference existed before the Beamer era. Skipper the cannon is a good example.
It's true Beamer has done a lot for VT football. This era in VT football is truly the best in VT history. However, I think it will be obvious by the end of the season it makes sense for him to stay on for another year. It's certainly not obvious at this point.
shorting them of what exactly?
You're not giving them credit for having an informed opinion that differs from yours.
You're also not explaining how one more year of Beamer changes or supplements VT football tradition in such a way as to override all other possibilities.
I don't think a good decision on that can be made at this point.
dude, I have made my point abundantly clear. You claim Beamer is not effective enough to afford another year, but you refuse to allow others to have the opinion that he has. Pot meet kettle.
Your response is that I am not letting others have an informed opinion, which is you avoiding the question yet again.
Shorting them of what? try to answer with specifics.
You claim Beamer is not effective enough to afford another year, but you refuse to allow others to have the opinion that he has.
I didn't say that. I said let's wait to the end of the year and assess it. I also said the sole criteria should be the best opportunity for team success, not sentimentality.
Your response is that I am not letting others have an informed opinion, which is you avoiding the question yet again.
You have no control over others having an informed opinion. What I said is that you're not acknowledging that they do.
I think you should stick to providing your opinion, and stop (mis)characterizing that of others.
I invite you to explain how Beamer staying another year affects VT traditions. I'd seriously like to know what you mean by that.
haha, Oh yeah, so sorry. Let me fix that for you:
You claim Beamer
is not effective enough to afford another yearshould be assessed at the end of the year, but you refuse to allow others to have the opinion different than yours.Better now, Pot?
Your feigned indignation over and over again about (mis)characterizing is getting old. Just like you stating someone isn't allowing others to have informed opinions when that is exactly what you are doing, is as well. Stop playing the victim without anything to add. I keep asking you specific questions that you keep avoiding to answer. Maybe start there.
Like your teachers I don't get paid enough to keep explaining things to you over and over again. Go back and read.
Better now, Pot?
Like your teachers I don't get paid enough to keep explaining things to you over and over again. Go back and read.
You've got nothing but snark.
Correct. Snark I do have. I also have facts, and apparently a dictionary.
And I noticed you are still avoiding any question posed to you. Well done!
You get NOTHING. You LOSE.
Good Day, Sir.
Seems like you're Bending this discussion. Were you on this site with another username previously?
No.
"has VT sold their 40k allotment"
Yes... VT's allotment was sold out 2 days after public sales began on Oct 2nd.
Exactly my sentiment. It may suck to have to wait it out, but damit Frank has earned that from VT. Do right by the many, do right by the program, call it a farewell tour, let recruits, potential coaches, current players, boosters, everyone know this will be the last year. And come out of the box swinging in 2017, not rebuilding or hoping. I wouldn't have faith that this could work with past AD's at the wheel, but with Whit, I know this could work.
Having a head coach on a "farewell tour" is a huge liability in recruiting. I don't know the answer to this issue and I'm glad I'm not the one who has to figure out when and how to send Frank on his way, but without an answer for the future regarding who our head coach will be, no recruit will want to commit to us. They wouldn't commit knowing that they have no idea who the head guy will be when they get there, especially considering that usually leads to new coaches on both sides of the ball in many cases. It has to be a late season or off-season change. Again, I'm glad I don't have to worry about or deal with that.
I see the farewell tour as much more of a positive. See Penn St and F$U. he kids never knew when they were leaving, or if they would be there tomorrow.
There are only a handful of coaches that can draw a kid to a school. Nowadays, they are going to the school, not for the coach. See all the recruits that have remained committed to MD and USCe. If VT is going to get a kid, we are going to get them, no matter the coach.
That can change instantly based on whoever is hired though. The coach may back off of them, may pull their scholarship offer because he as other guys in mind, or he might not mesh well with the player. I guarantee you that every recruiter who has contacted the USCw, USCe, and MD recruits who haven't decommitted, and there have been some, have brought up that exact point and that many, maybe not all of them, are keeping their eyes open. You don't know who survives a coaching change and if you are wanting to play in a certain scheme or for a certain coach because of their success getting players into the NFL, you aren't likely to stay committed when the circumstances change. A new head coach at VT could mean a brand new staff across the board.
And that could happen this year, next year, the following year...
Give Frank ONE YEAR. He's earned it.
And in doing so, you prove to recruits that we aren't the UMD's and USC's of the world. The recruits will know that there will be a new coach. And like I said before, we aren't pulling kids because of our coaching staff. As much as we like to think that the #34 recruiting class is nice, we aren't pulling kids because of the person on the sidelines; anyone of them. We just aren't. If that kid wants to play for VT, he will be. Whit isn't going to go get a coach that will push kids away. But, he could find a coach that might pull one or two more a year.
I did, that was this year. After 3 bad seasons, its time and I, in a previous comment, gave him all the pros of making this the year. Could have been a great celebration.
Recruiting/Rebuilding
It's not 2016 anymore that's the worry. It's then 2017 class that's good. Look at recruiting pre Saban and Pre Jimbo classes. they are good, but there is major improvement in recruiting the following year they are there. Followed by on field success 2 years later.
pre Saban the school was still under sanctions by NCAA if I remember correctly. Shula went through the mud of those violations to be kicked to the curb for Saban when they lifted.
Shula (03-06) also finished his tenure at Alabama with a 26–23 record... 4-9 6-6 10-2 and then 6-7. So not like he lost scholarships. and that's why he didn't succeed he just flat out didn't perform up to standards.
Uh, no, these are the most recent sanctions. Not the ones from when Shula took over.
He had a bowl ban, loss of scholarships and some other things to deal with, not to mention overall bad perception of the program.
http://www.bhamwiki.com/wiki/index.php?title=Alabama_Crimson_Tide
and this, I can't find this on the actual source anymore, only HERE
but it was an old report in the miami herald. Since it seems to no longer be listed on the heralds database I will post in entirety:
Crimson Tide reaping rewards from work of Mike Shula
http://www.miamiherald.com/sports/story/1409447.html?storylink=mirelated
BY JOSEPH GOODMAN
jgoodman@MiamiHerald.com
NEWPORT BEACH, Calif. -- There was a time when Alabama quarterback Greg McElroy cheered against the Crimson Tide.
McElroy had been committed to Texas Tech for longer than a year the day it played Alabama in the 2006 Cotton Bowl. McElroy and his family attended the game. That night, the Dallas-area high school quarterback got a call from Alabama coach Mike Shula. Less than a week later, McElroy committed to the Crimson Tide. Shula was that good.
``Mike is the reason Greg went to Alabama,'' Greg McElroy Sr. said. ``He loves Coach Shula. Mike was so genuine and so sincere and really just a wonderful guy.''
The Crimson Tide's coach from 2003 to '06, Shula's positive impact remains throughout the Alabama football team. Its renaissance is rooted in Shula's ability as a recruiter and his stoic leadership during difficult seasons, when the NCAA's heavy-handed sanctions had their greatest effects.
McElroy Sr., the vice president of sales and marketing for the Dallas Cowboys, said Monday that Shula's hard work under impossible circumstances is a major reason for the Tide's return to national prominence. Top-ranked Alabama (13-0) plays No. 2 Texas (13-0) on Thursday in the BCS national championship at Rose Bowl Stadium.
``Mike should get a lot of credit,'' McElroy Sr. said. ``The team has gone undefeated the last two years during the regular season and all those players are Mike's players, so I think Mike deserves a lot of credit.''
Currently the quarterbacks coach for the Jacksonville Jaguars, Shula was hired by Alabama in 2003 after former coach Dennis Franchione bolted for Texas A&M. Franchione had success at Alabama but left after the NCAA hammered the program with sanctions for major recruiting violations during the years Mike DuBose served as the Crimson Tide's coach. At the time, college football's governing body said it came close to serving Alabama with the ``death penalty.''
Instead of ending Alabama football, the NCAA forced it to cut its scholarship total by 21 over three years. Shula inherited that train wreck. The small margin for error eventually cost Shula his job, but before he was let go in favor of former Dolphins coach Nick Saban, Shula succeeded in restocking Alabama's roster with talented players.
The Miamian recruited the majority of starters (nine) on Alabama's current juggernaut defense, including All-Americans Rolando McClain, the star linebacker, and Javier Arenas, the talented cornerback from Tampa. On offense, the core of Alabama's offensive line is Shula's recruiting handiwork, as is McElroy, the quarterback who outshined Florida superstar Tim Tebow in the Southeastern Conference championship game.
``My hat is off to Mike Shula [for] what he was able to do,'' McElroy Sr. said. ``I feel bad for him that he's not a part of this whole thing, but hopefully he'll be at home on Thursday night watching this game, and if we win he'll have a great sense of accomplishment.''
McElroy, who played in high school at Southlake (Texas) Carroll, actually was Shula's second choice at quarterback during the 2006 recruiting cycle. Shula's top target was Tebow, who grew up a diehard UF fan. Despite Tebow's strong ties to UF, he came close to choosing Alabama after building a strong relationship with Shula. That relationship remains strong four years later.
Shula was upfront with the McElroy family from the beginning, telling Greg and his father that Tebow was Alabama's top priority. When it appeared likely that Tebow would attend the school he grew up loving, Shula offered a scholarship to McElroy, and the Texan who grew up in Los Angeles accepted almost immediately.
``Mike was always very honest,'' McElroy Sr. said. ``He made it clear that they had offered Tim Tebow and were waiting to get a response from him. If Tebow decided to go somewhere else, then there would be a good chance Greg would go to Alabama.''
Interesting.. Shula had a bowl ban in 2003 so that's 1 year but they went 4-9. He also then got his full scholarship back in 2004 in which Bama did play in the 2004 Music City Bowl & the 2006 Cotton Bowl Classic.. AD at Bama decided that wasn't good enough and in came Saban.
My point: Shula had sanctions and bad publicity that hampered his time at Bama. And then once he worked past those he was recruiting some serious talent that could have turned that program around, but was fired for Saban. Saban then shot out like a cannon on the back of that recruiting. Proving that programs with storied tradition will land big time recruits no matter what.
Your point: ?
My point is that if pre-season, there's an announcement that it's Frank Beamer's last season, that immediately negatively affects recruiting. And so over the period of the season, we are losing precious time on those recruits with him. If he's going to be gone, get rid of him. If it's an internal thing where everyone knows he's retiring at the end of the year but publicly there's nothing more than rumors and speculation, that's different. But calling it a farewell tour implies that it is announced ahead of time and he's just holding onto the position until a certain pre-determined date. I'm not someone who wants to get rid of Frank, but I'm not someone who believes he will be here forever. Again, I'm glad I'm not in the position to determine when the right time to move on is, but you can't have a lame duck in that position. It does no good for anyone.
see you also could point to beamer's whole career and say VT as a university supports a coach that does it right, wins games and ACC titles. You're an employee getting paid millions and we all have expectations, if after 4-5 years those expectations are not being met then I'll have to look at other options.
I don't want this to sound bad but I don't think many top schools would have kept beamer around after last year. Weird circumstances because Whit was just hired and all but I'm pretty certain that had Whit been AD from 2009 on we probably have a new HC by now. Look around the College Football world its all about results... Al Davis said it best "Just Win Baby"
What is this "Earned the Right"? Is it valid thru 2020, or what if in 2020 a 6- 6 VT team still has a QB and a Kicker. Is it valid for extension beyond then. Can it be used thru nepotism hires and past on to the next in line? Can Foster become coach in 2021 and use it for 10 years.
Maybe its earned the right when you win 2 National Championships and 13 ACC Championships and define your school as a Powerhouse Football team.
Nope, Bowden Earned the right to have the last game be made sentimental, but was out at the end of the season.
Maybe it's if you're at an already powerhouse football team and you bring them back to 2 National Championship Game.
Nope Mack's out at Texas
Maybe it's if you're a Police Officer that works your way up through D2 football to D1 and has a great gameday speech. I wonder if he will get it. I bet he does
Maybe because VT isn't every other school out there. Maybe because Frank has led us to 22 straight bowl games. Maybe because he's the longest tenured coach at his current school. Maybe because VT didn't have any football identity prior to Frank taking the reigns, even when it was VPI. Maybe because since the invention of the BCS system in 1999, VT in one of 2 schools to have played for a National Title that previously had not won one.
It's valid for next year. ONE YEAR. And look at the additional reasons for doing this...especially the year long coaching search.
Bowden probably said the same thing. But the school knew it was time
Bowden was told to retire. He was told he was running out of time to coach.
He was told to wrap it up
He ignored all the writing on the wall but FSU was already preparing for the football program to continue. Bowden didn't accept change and lost a Lifetime Mentor, a boss that supported him, and a lifetime best friend. (the relationship between the AD and Bowden was very deep) But FSU was ready and prepared to move on
And the life of a kicked out coach
"This time, Bobby Bowden accepted Florida State's invitation to return to Doak Campbell Stadium for a Seminole football game." After a 4 year hiatus the coach returns for his first home game and will only be attending 2 games
I like how you only point out FSU as a negative but ignore all points to how FSU had won championships in the past and is in a recruiting hot bed. Thinking that new == better is wrong. That being said, new can mean better, but it can certainly mean worse. We can always go to being where UVA is. Look at all the programs that regressed with head coaching changes. Careful what you wish for.
I'm sorry, lets include conference championships prior to Bowden
And Conference Championships prior to Beamer
Understanding Winning and recruiting the Best players doesn't require you to stay in state
Big fan of the recruiting maps, may I ask where you got them?
yea
This. is. SO. FUCKING. COOL!!!!!
Yup, he just killed 30 minutes for me...
Despite how 'remote' our university is, we have a super small recruiting territory. Nebraska is more remote than us, but they recruit from everywhere. Stanford is far from remote, but their recruiting profile is enormous - very interesting.
I really wish we could put this data in table/graph form. I'd love to see how schools' recruiting areas/profiles vary with respect to:
Also very important: size of athletic budget. Both Stanford and Nebraska have athletics budgets of at least $100 million. VT is about $73 million. Safe to say other schools can afford a lot more travel, etc. than we can.
Hmmm...well until you realize Stanford also fields 15 different Top 10 Men's and Women's sports Ranking 17th in men's and 1st in Women's Capital One Cup 2015 standings. So that 27 million more might be going elsewhere
Doesn't Stanford also have endowed coaching positions?
They do. $35 million in endowments, just for coaching salaries. That's equal to half of our total athletics budget, and is 65% of our entire athletics endowment ($54 million, per the Hokie Club site). So Stanford actually has a LOT more money to play with in that budget, I'm willing to bet (without knowing the full breakdown of how they do their finances, which none of us will ever find out). Stanford has a total endowment of over $22 billion (mostly on the academic side, but still). VT has a total endowment of $796 million. It's night and day.
Stanford also has an endowment of $20 million for athletic scholarships, which cover most of their athletes. VT's endowment for scholarships is $2.2 million. Financially, Stanford and VT are on separate planets.
VT has a decent amount of money related to football and basketball, and is mostly concentrated on those two. Both of those generate income.
I'm sure Stanford and VT are on separate planets financially, but at the end of the day, VT has enough money to sponsor it's athletic programs.
Not really, Tech has a pitiful booster club. The cost is rising for both student atheletes and coaching salaries. The current staff really isn't being paid that high and other atheltic dept employees and teams are missing out on a lot of needed items.
How is the cost rising for student athletes? Is it different than other students?
In football and basketball, VT is offering full scholarships up to the NCAA limit. Seems to me that Buzz and Beamer are getting paid market rates.
I'm not saying that overall the athletic department isn't doing more with less, but at least in Football and Basketball, VT has enough money to field competitive teams.
Did you forget we have to pay stipends to athletes now?
No. I didn't.
updated
If you seriously believe that history and geography play no part in a programs success then there is no reason to even try to have a conversation.
What history does FSU have before Bowden
Florida State University traces the origins of its modern American football team to 1947, after the school became coeducational following more than forty years as a white women's college.
30 years later
Under head coach Bobby Bowden, who came to Florida State from West Virginia, the Seminoles became one of the nation's most competitive programs, greatly expanding the tradition of football at Florida State. He is credited with Florida State's rise to prominence.
SO the same can be said about Beamer, but VT has given him even greater status with less on the field success
Lets go to Middle of no where Texas, Baylor. Top 10 team now, and out recruiting VT. Where is the history.
Baylor - Ready to be Champions
10 min video really shows what it takes
You chose FSU (a previous all girls school) who actually won championships before 1976(Bowden). And Baylor (an upstart afterthought which is only competitive while other Texas schools are down (Texas, SMU, Texas Tech).
You say that its purely coaching that got those schools to the (relative) top??? Wrong. Its location. Texas and Florida, coincidence? I think not.
I'll choose Tennessee and Texas. Two schools that pushed their top guy out too soon and have suffered the consequences. The difference with them and us? They have the money and the location to turn it around. We don't
To soon?
OCTOBER 16, 2008 (New York Times Sports, I mention this as a broader newspaper further from fans)
Look at who you named.
paterno: He earned it, but ultimately got derailed by off the field terribleness.
bowden: He earned it, but kept staying on and on. Even before Jimbo he was thought to be retiring. They put Jimbo in to push him out, and then had to push him out. He stayed too long.
Brown: did he earn it? Don't know. Yes 2 national championships, but he didn't make Texas Texas. They have always been Texas, long before he got there. So no comparable IMO.
Frank Beamer made this school go from a "where the hell is that?" to a "Oh wow, you're a Hokie". Not just football, the school. If you look at the schools pop numbers, tuition numbers, application numbers, grants received numbers, scholarships received numbers, awards for academic staff they all correspond to the football program going from a nobody to a somebody. He literally put this school into the national conversation. Not to say it wouldn't have eventually got there on it's own, but he Super Mario warp tunneled it into the future.
You can gripe about the last 3 down years we've had, the first consecutive down years in over a decade, that we still went to bowl games on, but Frank has meant more to VT than just football.
As I said if Whit is smart, and it appears he is (though Cinci debt situation is worrisome), then he could plan an exit out with Frank. And here's just one scenario how that could happen:
Frank returns for next year. Frank announces to the team before the first game: "This is gonna be my last go boys. I'm gonna miss it. I'm gonna miss everyone of you. But we have 12 maybe 13 games ahead of us, and I want to be dancing after every damn one!" (Cheesy but first thing that came to my mind)
Then during the season Whit can get his man and find the right time to make the announcement. Is that end of the season, mid-season... dunno, but it can definitely be in time to affect recruiting in a positive way. I don't see why it can't be.
And if we're lucky, we beat some ass at Bristol and maybe, just maybe a magical run in Beamer's final season. Why not take that chance? Especially when there is no reason why a planned exit can't be made that won't affect your major worry, recruiting. Could actually make it better if timed correctly.
The man has earned that respect and having fought and fought for this game to happen, it has a chance to make it something more than just another game. Again, I see no reason why it can't happen and be made into a positive, rather than just your negative viewpoint.
You mean, he did all of this?!!?!?!
Good luck recruiting next year in your scenario. Good players aren't going to come here with no idea who is going to be coaching them. And poor recruiting was a primary cause of what has happened over the last few years. Sure. It's nice to have the coach have a happy go lucky season and mention it's his last year. But reality is, barring a miracle where we go undefeated and win the NC, it's going to hurt the program as a whole long term.
Hall of fame post right here.
not being argumentative but just trying to put down a perspective from someone that works with college athletes and talks to recruits, coaches, athlete's parents and sees it from a different side. I hear rumors of what other coaches have sold and promises that are made, its actually pretty crazy what these kids hear.
All the tradition and pageantry was gone the second ESPN, SEC network and College Gameday started whoring themselves out. It was more about the $$ and viewership than a feel good story before the game. We now get to see people like Katy Perry, Ryan Lochte, Kenny Chesney , Jonathan Papelbon and other celebs join in and make picks. That's the best part about Gameday and IMO that's pretty sad. Gameday at Clemson the hooplah was about these kids that belly flopped into a mud pitt.
College Football is basically a minor league without the pay. Its also about pulling in top 25 recruiting classes, conference titles and major bowl games. I can almost guarantee you that no kid being recruited will care what Beamer, Spurrier, Snyder etc etc did 6-10 years ago, it's not going to make or break his decision. It's about what have you done lately (4 year span) and can you and your staff help me become the best football player so maybe I can get to the NFL or even CFL while also earning a degree so I have can have a fallback plan in case the NFL CFL doesn't work out.
See I don't know about that, a feel good story about players possibly but about a program? Yeah maybe a underdog winning the SEC or lets say Utah winning the national title this year but other than that I can't see many feel good stories. Maybe that's just me, maybe since I started watching football its been about recruiting, trophies and rings and less about early history. Did you see Spurriers quote the other day ""College football is a game of recruiting. Another reason I need to move on." The game has changed, gone are the feel good stories and some traditions. It's all about 10 uniforms, 8 helmets, rings, nike addidas under armour gear, nfl aspirations maybe a draft pick, locker rooms are now unbelievable,. You need to be able to sell that stuff along with how the kid can fit into your program and sell it well because recruiting is a cut throat world.
TCU , Houston, Utah, Oregon, Oklahoma State, Boise State rich tradition and history I just don't see it. Early Program history has 0 to do with football other than a good story here and there. For the fans yeah we can look back and say oh those were the days and have some bourbon and talk about the feared ACC team that VT use to be. Ask a bama recruit what he thinks of bear bryant and he probably would say he's was an iconic coach here at bama but I'm here to play for you Saban and win some SEC and National Titles and hopefully make my way the the NFL.
These are 18-20 year old kids and honestly they don't care a ton what VT or Beamer did in 2004-2009. If they cared about a lot about program history we wouldn't have missed out of Hand, Sweat and many other VA recruits because honestly VT has just as good of history as say a FSU Penn State and Michigan. They care about the last 2-4 years and how has that gone, am I going to be in a stable environment where I can grow as a player and a student. Yeah that sounds super immature and could be taken as a lack or respect and all but college sports in general are completely different than any normal business or cooperation. I'm sure recruits have a ton of respect for Beamer and what he's done and how hes helped build VT football but a kid's not going to commit based off that.
This could be true for a new HC as well? What if he comes in and wins this game, talk about a major boost in national media and recruiting hype. New HC guides VT to win at "Battle at Bristol" is VT back?
Yeah Beamer could also win this game but the story could be spun Beamer pushes VT to win at "Battle of Bristol" a defining win or will VT lose to "ECU" next week and sadly that's been our MO after a big win.
This Bristol game can go either way and its definitely a tricky one. I do however think a new HC and staff will get a little more cushion/time to show improvement whereas if VT were to get lose or even blownout beamer and the program are in big big trouble. Especially if this year we go 7-5 win a mediocre bowl game and we the fans get told the same old talk "this is the year we put it all together".
You could say the OSU home & away was taking a big chance as it worked out in terms of 1 game, but the rest of last year was a mess and this year didn't start off so hot either. No one gave us a chance vs OSU last year and we shocked the world and it was absolutely amazing. Enter weeks 3-12 and the talk was how far has VT fallen, OSU game a fluke, will VT beat UVA, will the bowl streak continue?
I bet Whit has used the end of last year and off season to find who is interested and who he wants as a coach. Doesn't mean its all set in stone but he has a top 5 and if 1 of his top 5 is available and he sees it in best interest for VT to move on he will go and get his guy. Beamer can however shut that talk down if we start getting some ACC wins, a trip to Charlotte would stand out for sure. Another middle tier Bowl Game and I think we could all look back at the last 4 years and say that we as a program have plateaued.
Outlook for the rest of the year is a tough one but doesn't mean we can't pull it all together. Brewer coming back could be huge for us. 1 RB standing out and separating himself from the pack could be huge. We have the talent and our defense although young has shown signs of greatness. So lets see how this weekend goes and hopefully its another good result that we can build off of.
So we now have to be lucky to win the Bristol game... what happend to the confidence we use to have, that's not too promising sounding to me. A planned exit could already be in the making? Ever though of why Whit changed Spring road to now 25 Beamer Way and why the athletic department street address will be 25 Beamer Way.. He's doing that so just in case this year starts to go south we can have a "planned exit". IMO a 34th ranked recruiting class for the upcoming year is my least of worry when it comes to getting a new HC.. Not like we're going to improve that if Beamer stays and I don't expect it to change much if VT hires a new HC. We have 1 4* rated kid and a bunch of 3* and lower kids and I wouldn't expect the big named schools to jump at bits for them.
The class that really can change is the 2017 Class and if Beamer stays for 16 that class will also rank in the 30's. But lets say Beamer stays for 16, what top recruit 5* 4* kid is going to want to come in for 1 year and then possibly run the chance of having a new HC come in and recruit his kids and ride the pine the next 3 years. VT can't name a HC in waiting and we would basically be back to square 1 aka worrying about if we will make a bowl game and who the new HC would be.
I don't have a negative viewpoint.. 3 years is enough time for a coach to fix things properly and at least challenge for a conference title. We're 3 years in and are challenging for a 6-6 season and a bowl game. I am just calling it how I see it and if we go 7-5 with a bowl win that won't change my mind 1 bit. A 7-5 season is mediocre especially with the talent we have on the roster.
Its obvious we don't see eye to eye and that's 100% ok. I'm not trying to get you to agree with me I am looking at it from a different perspective (not right or wrong) and voicing my concerns.
Disagree (obviously).
At present this is not the case. It is still school/academic based sports whereby they are paid opportunity and advantages. If it is a purely capital, market based system then college football would bankrupt schools and need to be a Minor league. It isn't though.
Except that teams with storied history are never want for recruits. And this is a major point you don't understand. You all want to hire a new HC to make a change when that change is even more precarious than what we have. None of you have any idea if that HC will work out. What if we get Sarked and the guy flames out due to off the field issues, what if he just isn't a great HC at this level. What if we pay big for and get Weissed and continue paying for that mistake for years and years. There are so many variables. But then look at those programs with storied history ND, Mich, etc even when they go through the coaching carousel and have to make changes they are pulling in recruits. NOT just for the new HC they hired but for who they are. There is a reason for that. You wanting to bring in a new HC could catapult into ten years of bad hires that leave our program in ruin. How is that any less speculative than what your premise is? or a better option?
All of these teams are essentially trying to pull a VT. Find a coach that can build a program into the national conversation and stay there. Perhaps TCU is more comparable than the others as Patterson has actually made TCU into TCU and the school has grown significantly since his employ. Peterson at BSU would have also been a good one, but he moved on.
Sure. Agreed. But if Saban wasn't at Bama they would still be getting the recruits because tradition made them into a national name that every recruit knows. Bama is Bama.
OSU was a big game. But it wasn't that big until Urban turned that program around and put them in the NC hunt. It also wasn't a game that has been in the making for years by Beamer, with the largest audience in history. OSU was a scheduling move, this is an event that has been fought for. And while OSU is this program's biggest win arguably, it was not intended to be when scheduled.
Agree we have no idea what will happen.. But I do know that with Beamer as HC we will continue to only recruit 1/4 of the country, fail to land top in state recruits, have 7-5 or 6-6 seasons when we have the talent to be 9-3 or even 10-2. There are so many variables but that's why Whit is the AD he's not new to this he's hired head coaches in football, baseball, men's track and field, lacrosse, volleyball and women's soccer all while being at Cincy for 2.5 years. The guy knows what he's doing, I would understand the worries of screwing the new HC hire up if Weaver were still the AD but not with Whit in charge. Whit isn't going to hire a no named HC who is the "next best thing" the hire will be of the Buzz category.
This is a great point look at how well ND recruited with all that coaching change. We can barely pull in a top 20 recruiting class and we've had the same HC for 25+ years and VT/Blacksburg is a great school and even better town. Yes Beamer was able to do more with less but the last 4 years lack of recruiting has caught up to us real fast.
Tyrone Willingham era 2002-2004
2002- 12th
2003- 7th
2004- 33rd
Charlie Weiss era 2005-2009
2005- 36th
2006- 4th
2007- 6th
2008- 1st
2009- 15th
Brian Kelly era 2010- current
2010- 16th
2011- 9th
2012- 18th
2013- 5th
2014- 11th
2015- 13th
Tradition didn't help them win all those national titles and SEC championships I'm sorry, it might have made it easier for recruits to put Bama into their list of 20+schools they'd like to go. Saban made them into the national powerhouse they are today, everyone wants to go play for Saban at Bama. Take Saban out of Bama and kids will probably want to play where he coaches next. I do think that Bama would be able to hire the next best thing but Saban is there for life. AGAIN -> 18-20 year old kids care very little about tradition and more about will a coach help me get into the NFL or will I have a legit chance at playing 2-3 years if I go to x school.
Don't buy that at all, all those teams have surpassed VT by finding a new coach that has come in and settled the program and now are reaping benefits.
Chip Kelly was a genius at Oregon, he got kids to buy into his scheme. Helfrich went 11-2, 13-2 and now he's 3-3 and early talk of him being on the hot seat. Oregon recently has been to a national title game and has been relevant since 2007.
Oklahoma State- Mike Gundy era 2005-current
Safe to say that Ok State has passed VT as well. yeah they get to recruit texas and oklahoma but they also go up against the big boys for all those recruits and obviously have found a way to do well with about the same Recruiting Class ranks that VT is getting.
Since 2010 Wins- Losses and %
VT 46-25 .6478
OK- 54-17 .760
Recruiting Class Ranks
2015 -40
2014 - 14
2013 - 25
2012 - 24
2011 - 18
2010- 18
Unless the new head coach is named Meyer, Saban, Miles, Harbaugh or the like there is absolutely no way for the new VT HC to begin recruiting more than our existing footprint in a single season, save for where he came from. That's crazy talk.
I am not worried about Whit hiring the new HC but again, as I stated, my point is about something more than coaching hires and recruiting.
Notre Dame recruiting:
Not sure what you are trying to prove here because you just providing the statistical backing for my argument. Despite a high HC turnover Notre Dame kept recruiting and landing top classes, because it is Notre freaking Dame. Not because of HC's. That won't be the case at VT. so... thanks.
when did i say this? Not sure if you are reading my posts. As above in the discussion about Shula at Bama and as you just proved my point about Bama, these storied programs that have that tradition will land recruits NO MATTER WHAT. Then it's up to the coach to win. As the article I posted above shows Shula was actually bringing in great classes to Bama toward the end of his time, but was fired before getting to coach them. Now I never said Shula would be able to achieve what Saban has but as far as recruiting goes Bama was getting recruits under Shula after the sanctions because it is Bama. Shula proves this.
You've missed the point again. Once again you are talking about coaching hires and recruiting, while I am talking about a school and programs tradition.
Which of these schools has a Beamer? Someone who took the program and school into the national conversation AND has stayed at their school to finish their career.
Oregon: Chip Kelly? Nope. You could say Phil Knight is the closest to anyone who has elevated that school and program. They desperately wanted Kelly to stay and finish the job in turning Oregon into a National Champion. Where are they now this season? lost to WSU, who was in turn beat by Portland St.
Ok State: Gundy is a good example of a school and coach passionately trying to elevate a program. Their on field success has been great at times. He was a former player. has coached for 10 years. They are essentially trying to have the same longevity as VT and Beamer.
Utah: Rebuilt by Ron McBride after almost ending the program. Then enter Urban for 2 years who then spring boarded and now Kyle Whittingham who has guided them into Pac-12 and starting to see consistent national recognition. Still long way to go but on the right path as Whittingham seems entrenched.
Houston: Too much coaching turnover here. They have wanted so many coaches who managed to find success to stay but are always a stepping stone program. They have not found their Beamer, not even close, and they need to.
Boise: Peterson took over and pledge to stay with BSU till then end of his career. It was looking great. They were the new VT. Punching above their weight with great defense and solid offensive performance. Their win over Oklahoma much like our win over Texas. Then they missed out on Pac-12 inclusion and Peterson left. Nope, but knowing people in BSU they all wanted Peterson to stay.
TCU: Perhaps the closest comparison to a coach that has had longevity and has took a school that was relatively unknown on his back and took into the national conversation. I don't see him leaving ever. He is TCU and he wants TCU to win the big one. Another Beamer.
so again, I really don't see what you are trying to say as everything you are showing is proving what I say is true.
The end of Beamer's career can be made into something that is going to mean a hell of lot more than a single year's recruiting. If done well, and I trust in Whit, 2016 could be a storied end to a storied career for the man that put VT football and the school on the map. It is rarely ever done this way and where other programs failed miserably at the end of their legend coaches career we have a chance to make something special happen. if you look at only recruiting then you are missing a huge opportunity to take the prestige of VT to the next level. It's not guaranteed but if you don't allow for the opportunity then you miss it completely. So lets not jump off the same bridge as everyone else and do something uniquely different. Make a phucking statement, or at least try to.
The only school that had a Beamer was South Carolina and look at whats happening there, he's stepping down albeit middle of the season but they're 0-4 in SEC play so the writing is on the wall. The Head Ball Coach has accepted that the game & recruiting has passed him, he is no longer an asset. A coach that has had a top 20 recruiting class since 2009 went 11-2, 11-2, 11-2, 7-6 and now they're 2-4 is saying he is no longer an asset. Looking at that I am in absolute shock, but then you think about it the SEC is the best conference and he knows the idea of 1 more year would hurt the program. Yeah they might lose some high profile commitment's but that's because kids want to play for Spurrier, they can get "school tradition" anywhere else in the NCAA but there was and will be only 1 Spurrier. The same can be said for Frank but he's not really getting mass 4* commitments in the first place so its a little harder to picture what would happen to a upcoming recruiting class once Frank decides its time to retire.
I'm looking forward because that's the only way to look. Yeah once Beamer retires we can look at back at the good days and the no so good days. However that's not the case, if we're already looking back at his career isn't that a tell tale sign he should probably ride off in the sunset? You should judge a coach by the season he currently is and the last 3-5 years, not what he's done 8-15 years ago because that's how you become irrelevant. Always looking back and not paying attention to whats recent/in front of your (not specifically you) face/program is how you become mediocre. Doing just enough to to get by is how you become mediocre. 11-3, 7-6, 8-5 and 7-6 is how we have become mediocre.
VT doesn't have a rich tradition in most kids minds, yeah we had a good streak of 10 win seasons and now were a middling ACC team with an aging coach. VT has to play to its strengths in terms of recruiting and what really is that? We're not a ACC monster or even a top 25 team, our results W-L and Coaching Staff will speak louder than VT's tradition will.
Really because VT has done such a good job at recruiting lately? Every year for the last 4 years we have dropped further and further down the rankings. We dropped 10 spots from 15 class to 16 class ranked 34 and its only going to get worse if Beamer stays 1 more year in sole purpose to coach a Gimmick Game and fairwell season. Beamer isn't going to magically pull a 10 win season ACC title game appearance out of him bum after consecutive 7-6 season.
2016 could also be a 7-6 season exactly like the past years not counting this season with another 30-40th ranked recruiting class. It is rarely ever done this way because it never ends pretty, AD's are smart and know nothing good comes from 1 more year. I dare you as the AD or recruiting coordinator to tell any incoming recruit their family, and their HS HC hey this upcoming season will be a fairwell tour for Beamer and whatever happens doesn't matter because next year it will be different. Maybe that's a reason why our recruiting has dropped off because kids don't want to put themselves in that position. What happens if during his fairwell tour we also happen to have our 1st losing season while also losing to UVA and breaking that bowl streak?
Why can't we leave off with a positive note-> come coach VT with a young exciting roster. Oh and btw you will get 2 HUGE games with the Bristol game and at NOTRE DAME this year. Talk about 2 games that could impact recruiting if we ALREADY have a new HC in place with his system instead of it being a farewell tour?
It's great Beamer has stayed here so long, and he's done a great job getting VT to where we are today. Now it's time to trust Whit to hire a great HC like he did for B-Ball. Someone that can come in pick up a decent roster get a staff together and give the program more energy and excitement for the next 5-8 years.
In no way is Spurrier to USCe equivalent to Beamer to VT other than age. If you honestly think that then you really have no idea what Beamer actually did for Virginia Tech, which is probably why you can't understand how to take advantage of this opportunity.
precisely, which is why you need to take the opportunities to build it when you get them. And pushing out a legend coach without a planned strategy on how to capitalize on that legends exit isn't just a missed opportunity, it's bad business.
again, missed the point. You claimed bringing in a new HC would allow us to tap into more of a national footprint rather than the limited one we have now. But that is not going to happen in a single season, unless we have a top 10 coach which we are not getting.
Yep, definitely could be but again it's a chance to build our tradition and it's worth that chance. because as I have demonstrated and you provided proof for, the programs with more tradition always get top recruits. Take the chance to build the tradition for long term gains.
Regarding Whit:
So as proved, programs with more tradition get the recruits no matter what. Planned strategic exits are more sound business wise and coaching wise. A coach can be hired during season and still impact recruiting. You trust Whit to make the correct hire.
So then what are you afraid of? If you trust Whit to make the correct hire then surely he could be trusted to make the correct business decision on how to exit a legendary coach.
Again, I see no real concerns that you have that cannot be managed and or turned into a positive thing. The only thing that you seem to concentrate is the impact of a single years recruiting, which is both very shortsighted and can be managed by announcing a new HC during next season.
Excellent post. Cheers !'
Michigan has the most wins in CFB history, jus sayin...
Maybe Beamer will get us back to Charlotte this year. Also, all signs indicate that Buzz was a great hire, but we still have to wait and see how the team performs over the next couple of seasons.
I wouldn't call it a business decision, but you have to do what's best for the football program. No one person is bigger than the team, not even Frank Beamer. It's not fair to the players, other assistants or fans to honor one man's wishes at the expense of the entire program.
If he wants to coach at Bristol, then he needs prove he's the man. If he wins 10 games this season, then he can keep his job and continue to coach this team. If we finish 7-6 again, then he's proved he's not the man for this job anymore.
I have to agree! We need to do whats best for the program. I respect FB and wish him nothing but the best but if he cannot do the job it's time to go. I would love to see him go out on top but it doesn't look like it's going to happen. Next man up!!
He could be the game marshal! Honored before and at halftime.
He should sing/play Enter Sandman if Metallica won't do it
i wouldn't even get into this until we are close to completing the regular season schedule.
I've avoided commenting on this because I hate rumors and such, but I'll say this:
"Insiders" [people with knowledge/connections] + "speculation" [they don't know, they're just talking] = not worthwhile
Do you have a source for this? Perhaps vetted by peer review? Or is this simply your own speculation?
Insiders + speculation = not worthwhile
is a corollary to
speculation = not worthwhile.
The fact that they're insiders doesn't make rumor-mongering more credible unless there is actual information there.
the irony here is that you don't know whether there is "actual information" or not until the situation has played its course...so how can you qualify that statement by saying the rumor-mongering isn't credible...unless it is?
Actual information = credited, reliable (or verified) source behind it.
It still comes down to sources.
It looks like, with Spurrier leaving, USCw firing Sarkisian, and Maryland needing a coach, the coaching carousel is going to be in full swing by time bowl season arrives.
In the least snarky way I can ask it, which of the hot coaches would we be able to compete for? I think USCe, USCw, and MD will all be able to outbid us for the Fuentes and the Hermans and the Morrises of the world.
Where would this leave us if Frank hung it up this year?
I can say with about 95% confidence that Morris is not going to be interested in any of those jobs you listed...which only narrows the field of coaches making it harder for us to find a replacement. I've said before, and I'll say again, as much as I think the SMART play is for Frank to step down graciously this year, I don't think it will happen. Beamer will still be roaming the sidelines as HC in 2016. I'd put money on it.
Beamer's got to look at all of his friends/coaches from his generation of football and see what's happened. You don't rebuild by keeping the same game plan. It'd be entirely different if Beamerball had made some kind of major changes, not punt blocking but punt returning, grasped the bull of dual threat qbs and championed that. Remembered that outscoring your opponent by more than 1 touchdown is ok. Keeping to the statement that S Beamer would change VT recruiting platform and results.
S Beamer would change the VT recruiting platform?
Andy Bitter's article on the announcement
Whether or not Shane's recruiting influence is a net positive is yet to be seen, but I think it is worth noting that Shane did bring some change with him. When hired, he was the only VT coach that was on Twitter/social media. Since then, all of our assistants and coordinators are, and we know that Twitter especially has become a major recruiting tool. Whether or not that was something that was going to happen eventually or not, we don't know. But I can't imagine it's a coincidence. Shane comes in as the young guy, knows how to use the newest tools, and suddenly VT gets with the times.
Shane came to town Feb 2011. In 3 and a half years we still are a Top 25iiissh recruiting team. He is either being over ruled on recruiting (Needs to be fixed) or not recruiting hard enough. Or his previous success was because of someone else and this is what he brings to the table
2008 South Carolina Gamecocks Football Final Record: 7-6, 4-4 (SEC)
2009 Recruiting Class 12th
They didnt have a great season to sell recruiting but they got the recruits
If he wasn't brought in to reorg the recruiting and improve that then why was he brought in. He wasn't a Running back coach anywhere else. He has yet to show that he can be as we have seen with the other topic on here
Buzz came to town and in one year Tech has the equivalent of a 8th ranked Basketball recruiting class
Given that our recruiting staff overall was way behind most of FBS football at that point, I think it's really unfair to draw a causative relationship between Shane and our total recruiting ranking. Now, has he whiffed on some important guys in his territory? Yes, but recruiting is a multifaceted beast. Does Shane bring a youthful energy that the players respond to and connect with? Yes. Will it pay off in tangible ways? Uncertain at this point, and the USCe comparison is also a bit spurious because Shane was recruiting coordinator there. That's Stiney's job here, and maybe there are still resources we're lacking.
Performance is measured by results.
Obviously, but the whole "Shane came here and we didn't get better" is too simplistic for my taste. We've had a lot of turnover in the intervening time, too. And moreover, Billy Hite had literally quit recruiting at that point, so to some extent Shane's arrival probably staved off progressively getting worse.
I think the point is that most people believe that Shane was hired primarily as a recruiter, and things haven't improved. There have been some notable whifs.
You can't blame it all on him, but you likewise can't say that he righted the ship.
You say performance is measured by results. So his performance at south Carolina can't be dismissed. We also don't know how far recruiting would have continued to fall without him. I agree that the jury is still out on him.
You need to replace a job. Take a hire from a Highly motivated recruiter/Position coach looking to move up or Hire a family member.
Yes his resume looked good, but last year was the 3rd year with no signs of change, decision time. Should have been let go. SC recruiting in 2008 rank 36 2009 12. VT has seen no such improvement. At this point someone hired on for their recruiting should have tech in the Top 15 at least in 2 of those years.
This is year 4 recruiting class and even if it takes a typical VT, all-in Virginia, swing we still won't be a Top 15 class.
Apparently we should of pulled a double on SC and not hired Beamer but hired SC recruiting coordinator. Every year since arriving at VT Beamer/VT has been out recruited by South Carolina. Older coach/Middle of the road, rebuilding team/Shot at Conference championship/Historic Coach/Really Nice but not greatest facilities.
We also don't know how far this team will fall with out Head Beamer, But someone else will come in (with beamer yelling and screaming leaving or not) and adjust the culture and try their best to change VT and Maybe they will succeed or not and we will try it again. performance is measured by results and time has come
Performance at Virginia Tech is measured by results at Virginia Tech.
This year's recruiting class is currently pegged at #34 on 247. The offense is rated 88th out of 127.
Then doesn't that reflect poorly on the Coach's management ability
My upper management has a ton of metrics to track my performance and if I quit at part of my job there would be no question or layover about it. If one month I'm not doing half of my job it's flagged for review by the end of the month. 61 days later and I'm shown the Door if it's not been improved back to SOP. It happens so I know what will happen.
Besides, Shane wasn't supposed to be hired here to plug a hole or keep things the same. Shane was here to address recruiting and get VT back to the Top. If the job was to fill a job not being worked why not hire anyone else?
I bet you don't make $250k to do half your job, either. Which makes that situation even worse.
VT is not his first stint as a RB coach.
But the first where it was his only responsibility. I think that is an important distinction.
That and apparent.y Upgrading the recruiting tools.
I think Shane runs the entire team.
For recruiting, yes. Might be right there.
If you think it's that he's the actual head coach, I would disagree there.
And I can say with 95% confidence that Chad Morris would jump at any of those jobs.
I'm trying to understand your rationale, I guess you put a lot in geography. I would say geography is less important today than ever, both in recruits going out of state and coaches going where the best jobs are.
Frankly, with Chad Morris, I don't think he's ready for a major jump this year. It's good to give those guys one or two years at the lower level as HC's before they jump. Herman may be the exception because he's killing it (and he's Mensa).
Chad WANTS to be in Texas. It's just that simple.
read this
read this
read this
I hope he gets a job at one of the big schools in Texas so that he can stay close to his family and not have to make that call. It likely won't be Baylor, which should go to Briles' son. aTm looks really happy for Sumlin for the time being, but I could see Sumlin going to a high profile west coast team (USC?). TCU and Patterson seem like a good fit, but that is one coach that UGA has their eye on (along with Freeze). I could see Morris at Texas Tech at some point, which is only marginally a step up from a non-p5 job because it's 8 hours from anything.
I just don't put much stock in those quotes from Morris. That's what you say when you return home. Glad to be home. Family. Yada yada. But if either USC offered Morris (they won't, way too many better options), he'd jump in a heartbeat. I can't think of any non p5 coach who won't jump at a quality p5 job. Just way too much difference between those jobs. Truly the haves and have nots. If a coach at a non-p5 job won't take a job at USC or UMD or VT, then that's a sign that that coach isn't a good fit anyway. That's the litmus test. You stay at SMU instead of going to Southern Cal? You failed the test.
The sense I got from his quote about staying at Clemson until the right job came along (apparently, he was approached for other HC jobs in the mid-atlantic but he wasn't interested because they weren't in Texas) is that he'll do the same at SMU. He's confident in himself and he's going to use SMU to spring-board himself into a HC gig at a bigger school in Texas when the time is right. He's not about to bolt for the next available P-5 job after just one season at SMU. He's going to bide his time. He'll coach at SMU and elevate the program which will be good for the state of Texas (which he wants) as well as for his resume. The man who can make SMU relevant again is going to be desirable to the University of Texas' of the world. I have little doubt that Chad Morris is aware of this and he has a long-term plan. I seriously doubt if that long-term plan includes coaching at SMU for 1 year so he can pimp himself out to whichever P-5 team comes calling first.
Semantics at this point, but I agree that he isn't going to jump ship after one year at SMU to go coach at USC (either of them) because....they won't be calling him. He needs more time to build up his resume for the right next job. He hasn't done as much as Herman has done in his one year.
I just disagree that Morris has pigeonholed his career to the five big jobs in Texas. If he has done that, he's not nearly as smart as I think he is.
Not sure if it's really semantics. I think you and I just straight up disagree on something that, honestly, neither of us know much about. lol. At this point let's agree to disagree and move on. When Chad takes a P5 job outside the state of Texas I'll humbly concede that you were correct.
He's a year away from getting the type of offers that would interest him.
I do hope he gets one of those Texas jobs because I do think he sees Texas as his home. But I also think Buzz Williams sees Texas as his home.
But I also think Buzz Williams sees Texas as his home.
We are higher on the food chain than UMD. That's just not a great job. UVA is a better job than UMD.
I would list the attractiveness of the job (based on money, fanbase, recruiting, conference affiliation, talent on roster and playoff opportunity) of potentially available jobs as:
1. UGA
2. USCw
3. USCe
4. VT
5. Arkansas
6. Miami
7. UVA
8. UMD
Texas would be #1 if they were on the list.
This is being discussed in another, but I'll add by $0.02 here too (because that's the point of the internet, right?) - fanbase isn't something coaches care a whole lot about. Access to a recruiting hotbed is. You have Miami wayyyyy too low on that list. You have raw talent on the team, access to (arguably) the best recruiting in the country, and one of the easiest routes to a playoff. You also get to deal with minimal politics (which, according to #sauces is the reason Nick Saban chose to stay at Bama instead of going to Texas). I also put USC above UGA, but I agree - those schools are 1a/1b. I think we're above USCe, but below Miami.
I think the difference between USCw and UGA comes down to preference of the coaching candidate, and what they want to deal with off the football field.
Although, isn't one of the major issues with Miami right now that the school just does not want to put any resources or effort into football?
bar1990
fanbase isn't something coaches care a whole lot about.
I don't see how you can possibly say that. Probably depends on the coach, but I bet most of them do care about it. Enough to do interviews, and enough to do a press conference when fan discontent gets high. A supportive fan base is what keeps a coach in his job, or pushes him out of it. A big and supportive fan base is money for your program. A full stadium is fun to play in front of.
I think coaches just care about it because donors and players care about it. If a coach could get all the financial resources and recruits they needed without a top fan base (in terms of attendance and noise), 80% wouldn't care much. For example, Miami, USC, and UCLA are all premiere coaching jobs with a second tier (or less) in-stadium fan experience. First tier being an Oregon, and LSU, a UF, a VT non-noon game, etc.
Disclaimer: I understand that this is a little bit of semantics, since the 'craziness' of a fan base very much correlates to financial resources and recruiting, but I maintain that most coaches only care about the fan base since it (somewhat indirectly) brings them resources and recruits.
EDIT: I might be generous calling Miami premiere, but I do believe there are 10-12 programs that could start winning again out of nowhere, and the big 3 Florida schools are all in that upper echelon.
I'm sure it varies by coach, but would you rather play in front of a packed stadium or an empty one?
Would you rather win a national championship at USC with a top 10 recruiting class or go 10-4 at Nebraska with a top 30 recruiting class? Coaches would rather win and build a legacy than play in front of a packed stadium. I've heard Michigan Stadium referred to as "the quietest 100,000 people in the world" (and I'm not surprised based on how quiet they were at the sugar bowl), but that didn't defer Jim Harbaugh from coaching there (maybe bad example b/c of alumni factor, but you get the idea). Michigan State fans are notorious for leaving at half time (so my coworkers tell me - never been to a MichSt game) but Dantonio is still winning there.
There are plenty of Tier 1 coaching jobs that offer a sub-par in stadium, gameday atmosphere. Coaches care about winning first and foremost.
Coaches would rather win and build a legacy than play in front of a packed stadium.
Those generally aren't mutually exclusive things. The more you win, the more people are willing to come out and see you play. Most teams with lame atmosphere is because they aren't performing up to their fan base's standard.
Did you really just use Michigan, with a stadium of over 100K as an example of a lame fan base? They have the current record of the most attended game in the history of college football. I HAVE watched them play live - against the Virginia Tech Hokies in the Sugar Bowl. (Danny Coale caught that ball.) I can assure you that their fans aren't lame.
I'm not comparing "winning" with "fan base", and I'm not bashing Miami as an attractive job. I'm just raising the possibility that some coaches probably thrive on a game atmosphere, and it might be a factor in their decision.
I agree, and I pointed this out originally:
Regarding Michingan....
Some fan bases are passionate but not loud. I was amazed how quiet their fanbase was at the Sugar Bowl (my comparison being Clemson at the ACCGC). If you google "Michigan Stadium Quiet", you'll get a bunch of hits about how it's a quiet stadium, complaints by RichRod that it isn't rowdy enough, etc.
TL;DR - Michigan Stadium < Ohio Stadium, Death Valley, Beaver Stadium, Autzen, Lane, etc.
I'll remind you that you're arguing that a fanbase isn't something coaches care about, and using Michigan as an example.
I don't think you should equate "fan base" with "loud". [On a side note, I LOVE the atmosphere at Lane Stadium, and see it as a plus in terms of attracting a coach. I think game experience might be something some coaches want. I don't think they'll chose that over winning, but the two aren't mutually exclusive.]
I was at the Sugar Bowl, and I can assure you that both fan bases did themselves proud, though New Orleans isn't particularly close to Michigan or Virginia.
As far as Edsall's comments, I'll point to that as a rationalization. Maryland sold more tickets last year than the year before, and it's mostly because fans of OTHER teams got to see their teams live.
If you google "Michigan Stadium Quiet", you'll get a bunch of hits about how it's a quiet stadium, complaints by RichRod that it isn't rowdy enough, etc.
Isn't that statement, in itself, an admission that coaches might care about the game atmosphere?
I think coaches care, mostly because its a tool to attract boosters and recruits. I think many (not all, but many) coaches would be unfazed if they could get financial support and recruits (in turn, wins) without it.
When someone relocates for a 'destination job' there are a lot of things that matter to them. Some coaches may care about the fans, others may not. Some coaches may want to be in a city, others in a rural area. I'd wager that ~80% of coaches could live with a subpar game day experience if they had all the other tools to win.
Miami is clearly a polarizing job. I imagine the potential HC's might be just as polarized. Some may think it's a great job, some wouldn't touch it. From my perspective, and some of those in the other thread, there are just too many negatives at Miami (like being broke) to take advantage of the positives (like fielding a team within 50 miles of your campus).
But, hopefully, they will hire Butch Davis and we'll never know. Because Butch Davis isn't really on anyone else's list but Miami's.
The there is other intangibles like world class beaches, warm weather and lack of snow. No income tax.
Never underestimate the value of that. Gives any salary offer a bit more oomph.
SC >>>>>> UGA. Not even close.
Plays in an easier conference. Has WAY more prestige and history. Can pay any price for coaching. Has better recruiting. Has just as large of fanbase. And has the more talented roster.
NFL Player by college
Miami 37
UGA 36
VT 16 (YAY MICHAEL'S BACK)
Maryland 15
fanbase/conference affiliationPrimetime Opportunities - Saturday Night/CBS SaturdaySEC schools
B1G schools
Miami
USC
VT
UVA
Job Security
1. VT
127. EVERYONE ELSE
Hey VT has 17 now!!
UMD isn't exactly a destination location-wise, but I think you're deeply underestimating them here. Kevin Plank's net worth is estimated at $4.1 billion. UMD won't be outbid for the coach they truly want by anybody. I'd put them no lower than #4 or 5 on the list.
To some degree, coaches might value everything else you listed over straight up money, but money comes into play in every other part of the conversation. Money builds better facilities, which lead to a better fan experience and better recruiting. Better recruiting generally leads to a better team (unless you're loluva), which leads to a happier/more passionate fanbase, and a better playoff opportunity.
Closest CFB in the area is Penn St, Pitt, WVU, VT, UVA, NAVY???....MD is going to blow up if they can just get it lined up... people want to see big time CFB in the area.... just don't have a program to get behind... as a media market it is huge
Look for a big name or a young energetic coach with vision, not afraid to leverage UMD donors... guy who wants to be the next chip kelly
I'll work with your list but I'll put them in simply an above-VT and below-VT category:
UGA, USCw, USCe, Ark, UMD, Texas
VT, Miami
UVA
Reasons for those above us: Money, history, and fan bases.
It's the biggest thing in those states. I'd argue that UGA is bigger than the Falcons, and USCe and Ark don't have pro teams to compete against. Their TV deals are massive and their resources are nearly limitless. This is why I have MD in there, too, they're Oregon east with Plank's money.
Now, most of those jobs are pressure cookers, too. You don't win at any of them and you'll be back out on the streets soon, but you'll have the support if you fit in with the culture. Strong doesn't, Richt does, so I'm not sure UGA will be on this list.
Reasons for those below us: Money, administration, and fan bases
UVA and Miami won't shell out Meyer/Saban money for a coach. They won't spend tons of money on football, their administrations haven't been able to support a winner, and their fans either suck or don't want to travel to home games. In Miami, if you ain't good, you ain't getting any attention.
Now, there are coaches out there who I'm sure would LOVE to live in South Beach and would LOVE to have the recruiting territory Miami has in its backyard, as opposed to living in the mountains of SWVA and having your nearest major recruiting territory 5+ hours away. So I think the Miami job could be considered better for factors like those, depending on who is doing the evaluating.
We have a good program, but I don't think we rank really highly on a list like this one.
I don't think UMD is a better job than VT.
In fact, I think the whole "Kevin Plank" factor is like Dan Snyder with the Washington Redskins. When you make everything about money, you might not necessarily make it better. Kevin Anderson and Wallace Loh gutted Maryland football, and sold out it's heritage. UMD dropped a bunch of sports and changed conferences over more money.
Do you think they're going to push out Ohio State, Michigan, Penn State, and Michigan State? Even with Plank's money, they're destined for the bottom half of their division.
To add, their fan base is bunch of Washington Post Experts...the same as the Skins. They only know what the WaPo tells them, which is a TON of recruits are leaving the area but the Terps should still win something in football. Completely sets them up for failure in the eyes of the fair-weather Terp fans.
I don't think MD is a better program than VT, but with a sports-enthusiastic major donor with tons of cash to spare, I think they have resources to field a very competitive team.
I don't know what you mean by push out those teams, but if you're asking if I think, with the right investments in coaching/facilities/equipment/staff/etc, could they become one of the best teams in the conference? Yes, I think its possible.
Let's not forget that we could have said the same thing about Oregon when Belotti was hired, but it took the right coach in Chip Kelly and the right Knight investments to make them a perennial MNC contender.
Just because MD is a dumpster fire now doesn't mean they can't build a winner there, and if they want to, they'll have the resources to do it.
It's going to take a lot more than money to win the big ten. As stated they have lot more proven powers in their conference to overcome to even be considered competitive for the conference title. Oregon didn't have that many teams to eclipse. USC has always been a power there but Stanford we horrible until harbaugh and UCLA was so so. The arizona's were ok as well but not to the level they are now. Pac12 is a lot tougher now than it was when Oregon came along. Mich st has always been a tough team. The big 10 has gotten tougher as well with northwestern becoming more competitive and now harbaugh taking the reins of Michigan. UMD isn't winning the big 10 till at least urban Meyer and harbaugh leave the conference.
I agree it will take more than money.
It will probably take the right coach and the right players.
UVA is an interesting case. They've got money. They have a culture of winning (in everything but football). They went big for Tony Bennett. I could see them going pretty big. Two names I would be calling if I was them would be Shaw and Fitzgerald, two guys who have won at academic schools. Stanford is notoriously cheap. Fitzgerald may want to leave because he's been there so long. Those guys very well may say no, but if I'm UVA, I check on them.
I don't know what to make of UMD. You are right, plenty of money there. But is just feels like a second class program. More like Rutgers than Penn State.
Arkansas is another interesting one, they always have way more money than you think. Like top 10 money. Jerry Jones himself could pay the next coach.
Finally, USCw is also an interesting case. I think they need a celebrity coach. Maybe go get an NFL coach. I don't expect their pool of candidates really mixes with everyone else's pool. That's a different market. It's as much of a semi-pro job as there is out there.
I doubt Fitzgerald would leave NW for UVA simply because that is his alma mater and that program is already above UVA's. Then again, a large paycheck can change a lot of things.
Yes, this. I can't see Fitz leaving NWern for LOLUVA because he is an alum. But I could see Shaw moving on eventually, I don't know his scenario too well.
I don't think UVa is a better job than VT, but they certainly are going to be swinging for the fences with this hire. They've waited out London's contract so they won't owe a lot of money when he's gone at the end of this year, and they've been scheduling big games to prove they're willing to do it, even in the face of looking ridiculous.
The waiting out London part is interesting. I could really see them throwing $3.5M+ at a coach.
UVA has really good fans, just not really good football fans. They support all their other sports quite well. It will not take much winning for The Library to be full again.
I think the years of mediocrity have worn on their football fans, but a good hire would bring them right back in. Hell, I see UVA fans all the way the heck out here in South Dakota (strange). I'll be following their coaching hire closely.... yes, I'm a little nervous. Imagine the havoc they could've wreaked with the talent Mike London pulled if they had a coach ...(a real coach, not a cop).
Has anybody mentioned Jeff Brohm as a candidate to take over when Frank hangs 'em up?
I've heard some pretty damning things about his health from multiple people not behind a paywall, so who knows. It is ultimately his and Whit's decision (like Joe said), but if it's THAT bad, he's gotta at least consider it. #Herman4Coach
upvoted this for the hashtag alone
If we can afford his buyout ($2.5 mil I think?), then it would be awesome. PJ Fleck is another one...he's pretty much Dabo, so he would need people who can actually coach around him. So that's a bit dangerous.
Why is there so much hype around PJ Fleck? He's 11-19 since he's been there. I'm genuinely interested because I don't know, but I don't understand what makes him the ideal candidate to coach VT.
I'm in the same boat. Besides having a good tv name and being young I don't know his credentials that seem to make him look good to keep us in the acccg conversation and hopefully playoff contention
People who typically know what they're talking about feel pretty strongly that he won't be back and that the new coach will not be someone currently working in Blacksburg.
So what you're saying is we can rest assured that the next Head Hokie won't be Scot Loeffler?
Curt Newsome. We only let him go so he could get some HC experience at E&H first.
If Curt Newsome were hired, French might light himself on fire.
Yeah, I'm sure for an E&H alum like French, it would be devastating to lose Newsome.
If Frank wants to stay til the end of next year for the game at Bristol, and Whit's cool with it, then so be it. I'm of the opinion that Frank should be allowed to stay as long as he wants. However, if that's the case, we as a fan base need to get ready for another 6-7, 7-6 type of year. Botom line is VT will not move to the next level as long as Frank is the HC. Not because Frank isn't as good a coach as he once was, but because he has become a recruiting liability. Other schools are gonna use his uncertain or certain future at VT as leverage. If you're a 2016 prospect and you aren't sure who your HC will be after your 2nd year, why would you commit to that program? Especially when you're also being recruited by Clemson, FSU, Ohio State, or any winning SEC school. Love Frank to death and he's always going to be my sports hero but that's just the way it is.
Maybe Frank will pull an HBC move and retire mid season next year
What is "has become a recruiting liability"
Seriously
You know who is a "recruiting liability" Nick Saban (How fast is Nick out if he losses 2 games in 2 years. What if 2 years in a row Bama is only a Top 25 team. How many years in a row can he miss making the SEC championship game). Jimbo Fisher (He's got lots of coaching in front of him. Is all of it going to be at FSU. Why not move while he's hot). Urban Myer (See previous decisions). These guys can decide to leave tomorrow. and have a new job at the same time.
You know who also WAS a "recruiting liability"
Mack Brown- All talk is on him being fired. Out at the end of 2013
2013 Recruiting Class 17th
2014 Recruiting Class 16th
Will Muschamp Fired 2014
2013 Recruiting Class 3rd
2014 Recruiting Class 9th
Brady Hoke Fired Dec 2014
2014 Recruiting Class 20th (Following 7-6 season and knowing change was coming)
This comparison is so invalid. VT pitches their recruits on a family atmosphere and coaching stability, It comes off hypocritical to say these things to a recruit when your coach is clearly and visibly aging. Spurrier said the reason for his retirement was that he couldn't recruit anymore.
TL;DR - Those guys you mentioned can convince high schoolers that they aren't going anywhere. Frank cannot.
Looks like its time to change the pitch
Muschamp is renowned as a great recruiter. Alas, he proved to be a horrendous head coach.
If Frank stayed another year, my concern wouldn't be the 2016 season record. I think he could coach them up to a 8 or 9 win season that would make
us allmost of us happy.Secondly, it's not just another year of what would surely be middling recruiting putting the next coach in further trouble. That's not good. But there is another concern.
It's the Seth Greenberg concern. Seth wasn't fired because he wasn't producing. He was fired because he literally had run out of assistants. Those assistants left because Greenberg's tenure was always in question, so they looked to find more stable situations. This offseason, if Loeffler can leave, he damn well better leave because we will likely hire an offensive minded coach who will clear out the offensive staff. Same with Bud, he doesn't have much stability after Frank leaves either, he would probably prefer to pick his next spot.
If Frank stays another year, it will be with a level of certainty that 2016 will be his final year. That will cause staff instability, which will make hiring nearly impossible and recruiting even harder.
I'm in full support of Frank leaving on his own terms. As long as his terms are to retire this November.
Those don't sound like his own terms though
I believe his terms, as publicly stated, are "what's best for the program".
You're going to have to explain that one. Whomever comes in is going to fill the staff with their guys. Their may be some contiguous from the current staff, but any more than 2 or 3 and I'd be surprised. Knowing that doesn't make it impossible to hire someone at the top. Remember, we aren't in the previous AD's regime, we're under Whit. He's been around the block, and isn't going to handle this the way his predecessors would have.
I'm saying for 2016. Say Loeffler leaves this offseason and Beamer comes back for a year. Who are you going to get to be OC for one year? Yeah, it's a frightening prospect.
If you could promise that Beamer kept his entire staff for 2016, then it is palatable for him to return. But if any of those guys have options and care about their own careers, they will leave. That's what happened to Seth.
There isn't a whole lot to pick from on the staff. Not dissing any of them, but they work as a unit. Individually, not much there. Morehead left. Did that affect much? And not sure it makes much difference if Loeffler is or isn't calling plays...its a frightening prospect with him.
If we let Frank have a farewell tour and we don't announce his replacement before that season starts, go ahead and burn that year's recruiting class. What kid would commit to a school knowing the guy who is recruiting them will retire at the end of that season and the school has no idea who would take over. That is a situation set up for an abysmal failure.
Considering what happened to the program the last time we essentially burned a class (2010 & 2011) I am not sure we want to see what happens to this program if we pull that.
If he comes back for 2016, you don't even have to announce it as a farewell tour. It's inferred.
Hell, aren't we in the middle of a farewell tour right now? Certainly seems that way looking at recruiting.
Drink
I've heard Nick Saban and Urban Meyer called a lot of things but a recruiting liability has never been one of them. Any sought after head coach will always come with the risk of them leaving for greener pastures. But the difference in Saban/Meyer and Frank Beamer is they are still consistently fielding elite teams and are perineal playoff contenders. Frank for the last 3 years going on 4 has fielded mediocre teams that are happy to make it to the Russell Athletic Bowl. Who's trending which way? I was watching a clip on college game day a few weeks ago and Ezekiel Elliot was talking about his recruitment and he said he remembered Urban Meyer asking him what he was going to do with the National Championship Trophy when he handed it to him on that stage. Can any of our coaches really ask that question with a straight face? That's the difference.
So you have to ask yourself, does Frank Beamer legitimately have enough time left to get this program back to winning 10 games a year and being a Top 25 team again? Maybe but I'm not going to get my hopes up for that based off what we've seen the past 3 or 4 years.
I have to say I am really confused by all the recruiting talk. CFB and his staff built the program by getting more out of what was considered by all recruiting rankings to be lesser talent. If you go back and look at our year-end AP poll rankings from 1995-2010, we consistently finished better than we recruited (according to the recruiting rankings, of course). VT did get some major commitments for the 6-7 year period following the 1999 season, but there were only 2-3 classes that broke into that top-15 range. Granted we have missed on some of the really big in-state recruits recently, but our class rankings have stayed pretty consistent over the past five years compared to the 15 that preceded them. My concern with CFB and this staff lies more in what we are getting out of the guys we have (and whether we are scouting as well as we used to for "diamonds in the rough").
A lot of people thought we had the talent going into this year to win 10 games (both on this site and in the media). And our talent level is not likely to change much next year. So if I ask myself "does Frank Beamer legitimately have enough time left to get this program back to winning 10 games a year and being a Top 25 team again?", the answer is "Yes", because many of us (and the media) thought VT had a shot at winning 10 games this year. Expectations should be similar next year.
That said, I will concede that an exit plan needs to be in place. Time waits for no man (and no program), so CFB's age and health become a more looming issue each year. Which is why the consensus seems to be CFB isn't going to coach past next year. The disagreement is just how soon it could be before then.
Good point though on whether any of our coaches could honestly ask a recruit "what he was going to do with the National Championship Trophy when he handed it to him on that stage." But I think that is as much a function of being at Ohio State and being a coach who won two NC's already, and not necessarily a by product of "trending." Regardless, I hope our coaches do aspire on some level to that ultimate goal and sell that (in a reasonable, non-hyperbolic way) to recruits.
VT definitely did make their reputation on finding diamonds in the rough. But recruiting has changed dramatically in that time period. Geography is less important forever due to everyone being on ESPN and Facetiming your mom. So there goes VT's 757 advantage. The second major change is that there is more money being spent in evaluations from every program. Diamonds are no longer in the rough. Very tough to differentiate yourself through evaluation these days. Finally, communication between recruit and school is so open due to social media that the HS head coach controlling access is over. If a kid is in Blackstone Va these days, he can and will contact every school he is interested in to make sure he gets noticed.
VT is still really good at evaluations, but no longer are our evaluations a secret. You often see early VT offers blow up with major schools offering all summer until VT isn't even under consideration. Without those evaluation advantages, the tables have been evened, the parity throughout college football spreads out talent and you better be really, really good at coaching to make a difference.
Times have changed and recruiting is followed by on field success. There are a few exceptions, Mich St is currently one of them but they may not be able to finish their season as strong as they were earlier. Recruiting does still require coaching, see USCw and the lack of a coach. Part of the coaching is changing your play calling. Our offense isn't going to win against teams that average putting up 35 pts
One thing I haven't fixed is that the outlier in this Oregon, the outlier, ranked in the Top 15 in their years of success
So is this bad coaching?
Let's fix that; Your record waits for no Coach.
If 2013 had been 2 loss to Bama/FSU team and not a loss to a 3rd string QB at home to UMD and last year was a rebuild that ended in the ACCCG and Chik fila Bowl I would only be half as pushing for the change. While good VT should be able to beat the Top Tier programs striving for excellence. VT and FSU were both in the 1999 National Championship Game and both had top players those years. VT has lived off that like a Trust Fund baby that never refilled the tank
Bill Snyder is 15? years older than Beamer.
Warning, crazy speculation and guessing for which I have no actual information listed below. I just felt like documenting my picks so I can laugh at how bad they are next January. Feel free to join in!
The Head Coach next year at..........
Miami will be Butch Davis (or Greg Schiano)
South Carolina will be Justin Fuente
Southern Cal will be Kevin Sumlin
UGA will be Gary Patterson
TCU will be Doug Meacham
aTm will be Brian Harsin
Virginia Tech will be Mark Richt
UVA will be Tom Herman
UMD will be PJ Fleck
Illinois will be Al Golden
Rutgers will be Jeff Brohm
UVA will be Tom Herman
I really hope not! That would be a great hire for them!
UVA getting Tom Herman would truly be a nightmare. But it ain't happening. With his success already at Houston he can bide his time and wait for a truly elite job.
I don't understand why Mark Richt would leave UGA. Many people have mentioned this, but I just don't understand the reasoning. Can anyone explain?
Maybe Richt stays at UGA and Patterson comes to Tech. But I'm willing to bet that The Head Coach next year at VT will be Frank Beamer.
Richt will leave UGA because UGA asks him to leave.
UGA needs to know they can do better. It's different than Muschamp at UF last year, he was awful and they needed to get rid of him. They ended up with Jim McIlwain, which is okay. But UGA isn't going to fire Mark Richt if all they can get is Jim McIlwain. They will send out feelers to see who is interested. I'm proposing Patterson here, who is pretty locked into TCU. But UGA is a premier job. Under this scenario, UGA is assured that they can upgrade from Richt so they buy him out and ask him to leave. VT (or UVA) would be a great landing spot for him.
Probably right that UGA wouldn't make a move unless they know they can make a splash hire. Although I think that given Richt's record there, he might be offended enough at the request he consider stepping down that it would be fairly mutual. Guy has been at UGA a long time and he might be up for a change in scenery. And you can never forget how real life comes into play. Do Richt or Patterson have school-age children? Are their spouses from near where they are now? This stuff comes into play more than we all realize.
Agreed, I believe Peterson didn't leave Boise for so long because he has a special needs child that was comfortable with the care in Boise. I believe I read that the medical facilities at UW was a big draw for him.
The other thing that goes into this is the preference of the biggest booster or two.
because when he loses to UF again he wont have a choice in the matter
Wow..I feel like, aside from Illinois, VT is the only team you list that would get shafted if your predictions are correct...I think VT can do better than that. If Tom Herman goes to UVA you might as well kiss that Common Wealth Cup goodbye, because we won't see it for several years
I'd pump the brakes on the Tom Herman train. He's coached for six games. Lots of risk there. High ceiling, low floor.
I'd rather have high ceiling, low floor than comparatively lower ceiling and higher floor
I know it hasn't exactly been a gauntlet, but here is Houston's Schedule
And Houston took it to SMU which is a team coached by the vaunted Chad Morris.
I agree. We should look at this as an opportunity, not a stop-gap.
Yep. If UVa gets a guy like Herman, and we don't make a move after this year, we're in serious trouble. He would go out and get guys to run his offense and be a very hard team to beat in a short time. As much as I can understand the sentimental value from some of our fanbase on Beamer having 2016 as his farewell tour, I feel like this offseason is going to have some seismic shifts for college football on the coaching front. Several big jobs will be open, and a lot of names could potentially be out there. We may set ourselves back terribly if we mishandle this decision.
It sort of depends on Whit's short list, and if the names are available now, or in a year.
UVA may not get Tom Herman, but rest assured, they will get someone that you wish they hadn't got.
UVA hires really, really good coaches. The only sport they don't have a good coach is football and I think they cleared the books as much as they could of the Groh/London salaries so they could make a big splash hire this year.
Brace yourselves. Competency is coming.
Am I the only person who thinks Richt is a great coach, and would be a great hire?? So much luck comes into play with an SEC championship run, much less a Nat'l championship run. Two SEC's championships is pretty solid, but he hasn't produced the magical MNC season those fans want. But he has produced consistently good to great seasons in the SEC. I would take his experience and south GA recruiting connections and put them at VT in a heartbeat......sounds like a winner.
no, you're not alone. I really don't understand it though...Richt has had a comparable run to Beamer with considerably more resources. And he's getting up there in age. I don't think VT would improve very much under his direction. We might go from a 6-to-7 win team like the last 3 years (and probably this year) to a 8-to-9 win team under Richt. It would be a modest improvement and then 5 or so years down the road we'll be looking for another coach because he's retiring..or something.
I would much rather get a younger energetic guy who would really energize this whole program. I also think that we need to get an offensive minded coach. The way College Football is headed dictates that we need to be able to score points in bunches. I think a guy like Tom Herman or Bryan Harsin here at Tech would do wonders for our program. I'm not convinced that Richt would take us anywhere. The SEC has good teams, but the conference as a whole is overrated. The fact that Richt has done okay in the SEC does not necessarily mean he'll be an all-star in the ACC. I don't think the gap between the two conferences is as large as ESPN would like for you to believe. Richt would be a middle-of-the-pack ACC coach IMO. Do we really want to settle for a comparatively "high floor" in Richt when we know there are guys out there and available who are more ambitious and have a "higher ceiling"?
I say, go big or go home. I'm tired of "playing it safe"...I don't think there is much risk in taking Richt but I also don't see there being much reward. I would rather spring for a young, energetic, offensively minded coach with lots of ambition knowing there's that risk he'll under perform than settle for an older, seasoned, vet knowing that he won't take us much further than Beamer could.
I hear you on wanting a young guy with energy and a lot of potential upside. And I agree Richt is similar to Beamer....but I think he is similar to him in 1998. Richt is 55. Beamer was 52 in 1998. I agree Richt might be safe in terms of having a high-basement (so to speak), but I don't think the fact he hasn't won the big one at UGA is an indictment that he can't. While he has had considerably more resources at UGA, he's also faced considerably stiffer competition. (of course, this is all predicated on him leaving UGA and wanting to go coach at a slightly lower tiered program, which is a BIG if)
End of the day, I think all would generally be fine with Richt or an emerging up-and-comer. The real question is, would we be ok with naming Bud the successor and bringing in a high-flying OC? That's the wildcard.
I'm nervous about Bud. I love him as a DC and he's more than proven himself as such. As a head coach, though, he's unproven. I know you can say the same about other OCs who have limited HC experience, but the difference is recruiting. Bud has been an underwhelming recruiter. We need somebody like Dabo. Not necessarily an Xs and Os genius (like Bud) but a guy who can really recruit talent and let the Xs and Os guys on his staff take care of the rest. To me, Bud is more the Xs and Os type, and less the recruiter type.
Yeah, I think that's spot on. Part of me thinks that with all of the factors that go into making a successful hire, I'd love to see Bud get his shot. Because if he wins, awesome. And if he fails, it will give a gap between Beamer and the outside hire, opening VT up to candidates that didn't want to be the guy that followed THE guy. Problem is that if the O keeps trending positively, such a move could happen without any real change in the staff, and I don't know if the fans could handle that. The boards would IMPLODE.
Do we need a Dabo or a London? Pretty similar guys. Can be a challenge picking between the two.
I think the misconception on Richt is that he can't go any higher. Patterson had a similar thought two years ago.
Mark Richt would keep VT in bowls for the foreseeable future, but he's also got just as much chance of winning 10+ games as any young buck out there. Dude's had some good teams. Recruits RB's like a champ. Helluva nice guy. Does things "the right way" (for people who value that).
It's funny, most people laugh about Richt considering a school like VT. Yet some in our fanbase wouldn't want him.
The VT Coaching Search: You're Not Good Enough For My Daughter!
Haha, so true. I get the feeling Richt could be like Bobby Bowden circa 1990 (he was 61), or JoePa circa 1980 (he was 54). Both had been at their programs for 10-15 years, had had a ton of success, but both hadn't put together the perfect/nat'l championship season. And both were 2-3 years away from winning their first MNC. Of course, the sport has changed so much since then, so the analogy could be completely crap.
If you want to know why people think Richt will be run out of Athens, just look at This Week In Schadenfreude . Sure, that's the worst of them, but many UGA fans really believe Mark Richt will never bring them a championship because he can't win the big games (sound familiar?). He can have top recruiting classes and make some noise moving up the rankings, but he'll collapse. He's been at UGA for 15 years and only won an SEC championship twice.
1 last thing that I have somehow forgot to bring up/ mention... Contracts of all assistants (except Bud) expire after this season.
6-30-2016
All contracts, except Bud's, are renewed on an annual basis I believe.
if true that is also interesting..
found this from a AB article.. sounds like VT does appointment offers
I knew it was something along those lines. Good grab finding Andy's article about it.
he worded it the best out of 3 articles I found/ read and it talked in terms of Zohn being hired too so that was recent
yup. I think Loeffler may have had a 3 year deal though, that's finally running out
This thread has too many words...
This forum is like a jellyfish, it will never die.
Sorry for another post on this thread, but this is probably the best place to put this. Maisel took a look at what makes Harbaugh turn a team around so quickly:
http://espn.go.com/college-football/story/_/id/13893353/how-michigan-wol...
Great article.
One "secret" ingredient I see that stands out is intensity. If the head coach has that, everyone else will need to have it as well.
It's something he has in common with Buzz and Bud.
The big takeaway I had from that article was the part where Harbaugh said, "Hey, what the hell are we doing in meeting rooms? These guys are bad at football, let's go outside and play football".
I wonder how much time we spend outside vs inside.
Have you seem the video of PJ Fleck and the rock? It had youth and intensity.
So Please enlighten me as to why Beamer deserves to coach 1 more year GTFO with that bullshit.
He has already coached about 20 games too many
Anyone ever dumped a can of gasoline on a fire that looked like it was dying down a bit?
yep.
The issue now is with so many coaching positions open, there's a lot of competition for new talent. I don't know where VT stacks up in the list but it's going to be tricky for Whit (if we do not hire internally, which I hope we don't)
Whit is in an interesting position. I don't think he can sit on this thing for another year for a number of reasons.
One, things are not getting better and they aren't even staying the same. The product on the field is getting worse despite all of the "wait till next season/we are almost there" talk.
Second, UVa will be making a hire this year. They hit a home run in basketball and there is a chance they do the same with the football program. Whit cannot afford to watch UVa make a good move while sitting on the current staff for another year. In my opinion that would be a bad scenario for VT football.
Definitely agree. UVA, UMD, USCe (teams in our general region) are all going to have fresh new coaches. We already get killed in our region by the likes of Clemson, FSU, Tenn, and even UNC to a degree. Having the same stale on-field results and recruiting next year does not bode well for us going forward.
Here's the thing, VT isn't a destination job. If Beamer had retired in 2012 or 2013 with the Sugar Bowl still fresh in everyone's minds, VT might have been able to get a more long-term oriented coach. Who would be able to install his system with VT players, recruit and be challenging for conference titles in 2-3 years. But with the state of this program it's going to need a complete overhaul. There are some exceptional players at certain positions, but overall the program is in disarray. It would take 3-5 years to get back to respectable. The next coach at VT would have to be a young up-and-comer AND would have to be lucky a So Cal, Miami, Oregon, Nebraska didn't come calling that could write a blank check with better history/prestige/location. VT has already lost several promising position coaches to programs with more money/prestige.
Change is needed in Blacksburg, but it's going to be a long time before reliving the glory years of the late 90's to 2010's.... if ever.
VT has a good brand for football, great facilities, and a good fan base.
They're in the easy side of a P5 conference that's ripe for the picking. The other half is controlled by Florida State and Clemson.
Whit seems like a pretty good AD to work for. VT athletics has a reputation as a family atmosphere with a long-term perspective. I think it's a very attractive coaching position. Hopefully the athletic department has a good financial plan to pay the next head coach, particularly as they've promised $250K for eight years to Beamer.
There is some good competition out there for coaches this year, and UMD, UVa will be competing with VT for the same type of coach. I'd say VT could hire a new coach this year or next, but more and more it's looking like this year. Game on.
You bring up a good point with:
If you ever go over and read The Sabre (which is good if you ever want to feel better about the VT program), you'll see that the fanbase HATES the AD. They say he's meddling in the football program (which I can't imagine is a positive for potential coaches). Maybe the coach/AD relationship makes a big difference. Whit attracted Buzz here (with the most ludicrously generous contract ever generated), so why not another home run hire?
If, hypothetically, the same coach was considering UMD, UVA, and VT, VT wins hands down for all the reasons you state:
1. Facilities (Top Notch!)
2. Fan Base (Awesome! Whit knows we will come to support the new HC and see what will happen next.)
3. Great AD to work with (We've seen enough of his management style to know he isn't a meddler and he gets the family support structure - support for Beamer and Buzz hire both demonstrate this)
4. Position in P5 conference (I don't mean by our record, but we do have a platform position in a good conference that can be straightforwardly improved quickly.)
Therefore, to really excel in the next hire, you have to go higher and compete with USCe, "the U", and other bigger P5 conference teams in our region AND BEYOND looking for HCs. Whit will want to hit a grand slam. I wonder how much finances fit into this considering Beamer's contract, the basketball program costs (worth it in my mind), and where Hokie Club support is right now?
This will be interesting. Who is that candidate? Can Bud fit that need (intensity - Yes; manage program from the top - Maybe)?
Money talks my friend. VA is talent rich. Our facilities have been upgraded and a Coach can actually win in the ACC. Right now I believe the ACC can have one of the eastiest routes to a playoff spot. Last year we has the 9th highest payroll in college football. If whit can get Buzz to come here, then I believe he can get us a good coach.
Wait- seriously? Now I'm really ticked... if true we are not getting good return on our investment.
It looks like he's talking about Total Assistant Salary http://sports.usatoday.com/ncaa/salaries/football/assistant.
But that's kind of skewed because Bud's Annuity thing kicked in.
Total, including HC is probably much mower than that, considering Frank is ranked 37th in total pay. http://sports.usatoday.com/ncaa/salaries/football/coach
So, total staff pay is 6.4 Mil with the annuity. I don't have time to run the numbers at work, but eyballing it I would say it's like in the top 20...
I disagree. There are other replies with some easy counters, but a lot of coaches young and old know Beamer and what he has done, and show a lot of respect. When that seat becomes available, there will be plenty that would love to pick up where he left off and carry the torch. This program has a solid base of tradition and football history (because of Beamer) and it's a chance for the next guy to build on all that.
We are all screaming for a change, but we still haven't hit the basement yet (this year could be, but can't go 0-12). And there is current talent on the roster, so a new coach doesn't have to start from scratch, lot to work with.
Pull out the checkbook and recruit a great coach. Whit did that for basketball. Do it again. Whatever it takes. And VT is much more attractive a football destination than basketball. Don't fear change, fear stasis.
A wise person once told me "once you stop getting better, you stop being good".
As a program we stopped trying to get better a while ago.
I don't think it was so much that they didn't try, as it was Beamer prioritizing "loyalty to his staff" over winning.
It undeniably caught up with him in 2012, but was perhaps too late to fix at that point.
Yes, they were always trying...it's just that they showed poor judgement in the best ways to get better.
Franks future summed up.......
1. it's time to go, it s just time......
2. he deserves to go on his terms not be forced out....
3.he should get 30th year if he wants it,.but no more than that.
4. We need a big time coach for recruiting and for the good of the program....with our history, facilities , and a salary we pay frank , we can get a top caliper coach...we have the things we need rise to greatness again.
5. In the end, if frank does not leave , it will come down to money, it always does, when ticket sales, merchandise and misc sales start to plummet....whit will do what has to be done....
6. Bowl streak ends this year....that will turn the heat up big-time.........I believe that could be the turning point.....frank may well hang it up at seasons end for the good of the program......we owe everything tech football is to frank, but its time to turn the page ....
6. If frank wants 30 th season I won't fight it but after that I think most fans patience will have been used up....and it may well get ugly......I hope we don't end frank career that way
Given their written mission to acheive better than last season I don't see how Whit can give Beamer another year or Beamer stay another year if we fail to make a bowl game (which looks completely possible). 6-6 was not acceptable last year, but he got this year to try and figure it out. We will have not have a winning record at the end of October for the 3rd time in 4 years. That's not good enough.
30th??? He should have been out at 27. Why the hell should he get a 30th year? So we can go 0-12 and get embarrassed at Bristol? Get another year behind in recruiting and rebuilding? Coach has been GREAT for VT and always will be a legend but Tech also been great to him. Shame on him for not looking in the mirror and stepping aside a year or two ago and putting the new administration in this position. A true legend would have stepped aside for the good of all.
Your #6 is absolutely 500% true. Frank wants 10 more seasons...but it's not about want, it's about what he can still be successful with and what is still "fun" for him.
Your #1 point is hard to confirm/deny from an emotionless business standpoint. That is why your #5 point is also true. How much that is true right now, only Whit and those in the athletics business and Hokie Club offices know. How much #5 is true is very much going to dictate if #2 and #3 get to be played out.
Again with #6, I feel confident in saying that Frank no longer has a chance of a successful, ride off into the sunset exit from VT. Even if we win out 8-5 this season, we still won't have made the ACCCG and there will still be the sour taste of the awful losses during the season. After the promise we had going into this season and the resultant let down, I don't see anything changing going into next season, no matter how much promise there might be for "more experience" and "better young talent". We heard that all offseason and here we are at 3-5. So chances are if we give Frank an extra year for his 30th we are going to see a lot of the same as we have this year. Is that worth the continued decline in ticket sales and delaying the young/future Hokies from becoming perennial donors?
If Beamer had his way, I'm guessing he'd leave his staff in place to take over the team. In particular, either Shane or Bud as HC.
If VT had won the ACC Championship this year, that might have been a possibility.
At this point, I don't see how that would be possible.
How awesome would it be if we could get the other Harbaugh? I mean, Baltimore isn't doing great. No one's talking about him. What if little bro calls up & says this college gigs not bad as long as you tell your kicker to hold on to the ball...
Yea, doesn't sound too bad. If we can swing a NFL coach who is looking for a scene change. I know just the guy...it'll be awhile before we can attempt to get him though...
If either Harbaugh came to coach VT I'd immediately only be a fan of the players. I don't think either guy epitomizes the culture & attitude of VT, and I think that is a target that Whit will be trying to hit with a replacement for Frank at around the same level of the target of promise for sustained success. I think Michigan is a lot more concerned about the success and less so about the culture & attitude, which is why Jim is probably going to be a great thing in the long run for them.
I'm really hoping for a hire by Whit that won't risk undervaluing academics and off-the-field success in favor of simply winning.
While I don't think either Harbaugh is a realistic hire for VT, I very much disagree with this statement. Both Harbaugh's are hardworking, grinding coaches who are carasmatic but managed to win with (at times) subpar players. John was a special teams coach before being promoted. Jim's college career was highlighted by coaching at Stanford and now Michigan - two top tier academic universities, both often held in a higher regard than VT's world class engineering program. How does this not epitomize the culture and attitude at VT? Are they too competitive for your liking?
I don't understand this comment at all. I think you are way off base.
Did I miss something and Jim had players in trouble at Stanford and Michigan so far? Two institutions regarded much more highly for their academics than VT is (and that's not a knock on us, Stanford and UM are high end institutions)
Yeah the guy is weird. But I don't see a "doing things the wrong way" vibe from his programs.
As for Jon Harbaugh, I think it's tough to compare NFL players to college. The Ravens have some real POS on their roster, but that's how the pro game works, coaches can't just sit/cut those guys because they are oftentimes your best players too.
It's purely hypothetical because we arn't going to have either, but I would do backflips for a Harbaugh coaching VT.
How about we let Coach Beamer coach until we have a realistic shot at "Bruce Arians?" He's a Hokie, a QB whisperer, and a heck of coach.
It would freaking jumpstart recruiting like never before.
Why do you think we need a Hokie? Concerns that a new coach would leave too soon?
I think we need to get past that mentality, that is what has led to our current stale state of assistant coaches. Worried about poaching shouldn't be our mindset. If a new coach comes and succeeds enough that LSU or OSU or Bama poaches them down the line, then we have succeeded at a pretty high level.
Arians is a great coach and we'd love to have him. But there are plenty of other coaches out there that are either more easily accessible or just as good of a coaches. Being a Hokie shouldn't have any bearing on this decision.
Having an alum as a coach is a nice perk, but by no means should it be one of the main arguments for him. Just look at Michigan and their previous "Michigan Man" coach.
Michigan chose a dude that wasn't reaeeaalllyyy that credible. Ok, so even if Arians wasn't a hokie, he's still badass coach. An "unpolished" Brady Hoke type of candidate, vs an "accomplished" Bruce Arians type of guy.
Hokie or not, the guy still knows some football. But thats why it'll be hard for him to stay, he would have to have some other reason for staying.
Don't get me wrong, I think Arians would be a great hire. But the primary reason is that he's a good coach. The fact that he's a Hokie is just icing on the cake.
I'm just arguing against people using a coach's Hokie-ness as one of the main reasons to hire them since there's a danger of falling into the same trap that Michigan did.
I think Hoke was pretty good at his previous job..SDSU, was it? So he wasn't totally out of left field.
Having said that, he was a dumpster fire at Michigan and now...they have another Michigan man who definitely has the credentials
Off the top of my head, Michigan, USC (multiple times) and Notre Dame have all butchered coaching searches/hirings by choosing an alumni over a better candidate.
I think it's an advantage, as it shows love and possibly commitment to a program, but certainly not a requirement.
Sure, but realistically, what would the Hokie alums and fans want to see? I'd be happy to get anyone who has great energy and can coach but a former Hokie is just perk for the front office to attempt to get someone who's legit.
Plus, we want the coach to stay for awhile. Recruits won't stay committed if we have a coaching carousel. Hell, won't don't know what it feels like to coaches coming in and out of the program.
Ummm how about the fact that Arians is just a really good freakin coach, and the "being a Hokie" part might be something that would actually bring him Blacksburg.
Why in the world would Arians leave his great HC job in the NFL to come coach at VT? I mean I get it, he was the Hokies QB a hundred years ago but it's not like he's struggling to find success in the league. He's sniffing a Super Bowl appearance pretty hard. Kinda difficult to imagine anyone would give up that kind of success to coach a middle of the road ACC football team.
By the time we have a realistic shot at Bruce Arians, he'll be the Beamer of the NFL. He's currently 63, and with the success Arizona has been having, it's still at least two years before he'll be leaving there.
Holy hell, Bruce Arians is 63!? Well shit....
Yeah, he's 3 years older than David Cutcliffe.
It's going to take a few shitty seasons for Arians to come to VT.
Of course, the new coach wouldn't "have" to be a Hokie, but my main case for Arians is this: If our program was in major trouble, he could come in as a position coach, coordinator, advisor, HC, WHATEVER. Just his credentials alone would feed some good talent into program.
He wouldn't even have to stay long. Few years maybe? All I'm saying is he would be a quick way to "potentially" get the program back on it's feet.
Head coach of a successful NFL team to position coach at a middling sub-.500 team? He can just get his Hokie fix by drafting
TE'sQB's once in a while.Any fuel to the fire of new/recent rumors Beamer is announcing after the BC game? Seen on here, 24/7, TSL, surprised Bitter hasn't commented yet. #sauces
He has, in today's article:
Full comments: Bitter Blog
I personally hate talking about things that I know nothing about, but I was having a conversation with a guy at halftime who was apparently a very wealthy donor to the Hokie Club (he looked the part as well). He said with 100% certainty, his words not mine, that Beamer was going to announce after the BC game. I asked him how he was so certain and he said that he found out through some sort of meeting that was had with donors that were much higher up the pole than he. I also asked him the chance of Bud getting the job and he said that there is absolutely no way he will get the job because of something that happened with him a few years ago but he wouldn't bend on giving out that info. AGain- this is just some donor that I shared a few smokes with, doesn't mean shit really..
...in a way I hope he's right, and part of me will be very sad when/if it does happen.
Between last night and this morning, the chatter has been high. I'm hearing it from multiple people. At this point, if it is true, Beamer needs to just announce it on Monday.
What difference would a week make? From a logistics standpoint, waiting until the bye week to drop an announcement regarding the future of the program seems like a prudent course of action. I know many have thrown in the towel on the 2015 season, but Tech's still fighting for a bowl bid. Why mix in a major distraction while the coaches and team prepare for Boston College?
Because for many people with the $$, the bowl bid might not be that important.
Disagree with you there. The bowl streak is VERY important to people with the money.
I am not saying that's not the way it will go down (personally I've heard conflicting info), but I don't know what the extra week buys Tech.
I agree. I don't really see what difference a week would make.
I'm curious about what the Bud Foster thing is.
I have read a handful of comments on TKP that hint at an 'incident' or 'baggage' Foster has/had that will prevent him from being a head coach. While I know nothing about this (un)alleged thing that may or may not have happened, and while I have been extremely curious since I first saw it mentioned some years ago, I have a feeling it's best left a secret.
Yeah it's got my curiosity piqued, that's for sure. If it's something that would genuinely prevent him from getting a head coaching job it had to be something pretty bad.
Same here. I've heard from an executive at my company (who is a big time donor) that something in Bud's past would keep him from getting the job. I try not to stoke rumors likes this. I'm only mentioning it because this is the first time I've heard it mentioned from another source.
I think the only reason that Bud didn't jump ship to TA&M is because Whit told him that he has a very good chance at being the head coach after Beamer. We all know that Bud wants the position just based on his 8 hour conversation with Whit about his credentials when Whit was first hired. If something changed Whit's mind, it would've been very recent.
All of that sounds about right, but rumors are rumors.
Any details are suspect. Remember when that game where a message is transmitted by whispering it through several people, and the final messages are compared? It's a fun party trick, but the details are distorted with every telling.
I always though Foster deserved it for carrying this team for so long and staying loyal... but I completely reversed course when I heard about his attempt to try and fine players, that condemned everyone involved in my eyes, and Foster seemed to be a supporter of it.
I don't believe the fines were Foster's idea, he was just the first one on our staff to be asked about it. He didn't handle it well.
Tuberville said the same thing the same week.
That's a pretty terrible reason to change your mind, that's not even what happened or what was said. There was no attempt to fine players, just that when someone asked him if they would when the new rules came about he essentially said, "well I don't know, maybe". This wasn't some grand scheme of his, just a reporter asking a loaded question he wasn't prepared for.
The fines that caused that whole mess was docking players bowl stipends and the like, which apparently is pretty typical at programs (correct me if I'm wrong here).
You are correct. VT has been fining player bowl stipends since the 1990's and was looking into the possibility of expanding that to the COA stipends.
IMO Whit overreacted by nuking the bowl stipend fines along with the COA fines. He rightly sensed that the media was going take the situation way way way way out of context and make a mountain out of a mole hill, but he was wrong to think that nuking the fines immediately would quell any of that manufactured/ignorant outrage.
And in the process our coaches lost a tool for enforcing discipline on a team that's been racking up penalties.
Fining college football players is not a new thing, and some schools even have stipulations in their scholarships allowing those funds to be docked for team rule infractions.
I don't think the fines were a horrible idea, but I think Whit was correct about the potential media firestorm, and he nipped it in the bud (sorry) rather than garner more negative publicity. He adeptly took the legs out of the story.
I tailgated after the game with my local Hokie club rep. She also sits on the advisors board for the alumni association and Hokie Club and was in the luxury box with the Hokie Club and Sands/Whit (they stopped by) for the game and she knows nothing of the plans. Sooooooooo
Like I said, it could be some guy just trying to spread the rumor to anyone that would give him 30 seconds. The more I think about it today though, I surely hope there is fire beneath all this smoke.
Sooooo, maybe those guys are all like, "Shhhhhh, hears she comes... stop talking."
Interesting that there is a sign placed on Southgate Dr by someone wanting to buy tickets for a 3-5 football team that has one home game left (which of course would be Frank's last). I think right or wrong the rumor of an announcement after the BC game has legs.
Well.... He was right. Now I wonder if he's right about Foster
People said the same thing about the Duke Game. I don know why you all don't understand the man is too proud and stubborn to retire. I hope he does the right thing and announces a retirement (but it would be likely after our last home game....UNC). But it wouldn't surprise me if things get messy. He knows he has talent on this team. This team has more offensive weapons then it had in years. Unfortunately now we have too many injuries and lack enough talent on Defense.
The big problem with changing coaches is finding a better one.
Yea, except when the coach has 4 year record of 25-22 and you play in a weak ACC conference schedule. Even a best case finish its 29-22 in 4 years is not good for a Top P5 team Coach
Then Look at recent coaching changes one year in
Pitt Top 25
Michigan Top 15
Florida was Top 5
To be fair PITT is on their third coach in 4 years.
Third times, the charm.
Yes, and notice they didn't screw around - they kept at it until they got it right.
Eh...that wasn't really their choice. Both Graham and Chryst left town to pursue better jobs, it had nothing to do with Pitt trying to "get it right" and instead was mostly just Pitt getting screwed.
At least with Chryst though they were kind of expecting it, they knew he would probably leave them to return to Wisconsin eventually and that job just happened to open up only a couple years later. Graham did the whole "I'm here for the long haul" thing and made promises to players and recruits that he would be there and then literally left in the middle of the night. Complete scumbag, and I pray VT doesn't hire somebody like him.
OT: Thanks for collapsible comments, Joe! It's really made mobile browsing and getting through senseless bickering a heck of a lot easier.
And I hadn't even noticed, so thanks for drawing my attention to it. Yes, nice feature.
Not a TSL fan AT ALL, but interesting none the less
http://chat.virginiatech.sportswar.com/message_board/vtfootball/2015/Oct...
meh. I'll believe it when I see it. It wouldn't surprise me if it's an accurate rumor. It also wouldn't surprise me if it wasn't even close.
I'll believe it when the words come out of CFB mouth.
I'm just happy I have a couple of tickets for the UNC game
same here!
soo deal is done for a new HC?? if so I wonder who it is as you would think coaches couldn't talk to other schools mid season.
I don't read that as a new HC deal is done, rather that the transition into Beamer's contractually promised post in the Athletic Dept. is done. There is probably some bureaucracy there, determining start date, etc. If this is to be believed.
I was reading it as the deal was done for his retirement.
Nothing in that post says a deal is done for a new HC.
Ooops. I guess I should have hit "refresh" first...
It is all done by the agents, for example when a team is away a lot of the time an AD will host an agent of a coach he may be interested in. (Fosters agent last year was visiting and consulting with A&M during the season not Foster)
Coaches do not have time for it during the season but still find jobs before the season ends.
Herman to Houston last year
Dan Mullen to Miss. St. (stayed with Florida for remainder of year)
Jim McElwain to Colo. St. (staying with Bama for remainder of year) - and last year he left Colorado St. before there bowl (obviously he hadn't been visiting Florida during the year but his agent had
Mark Richt to UGA (stayed with FSU for remainder of year)
They have ways of communicating without breaking any rules.
Is this the end?
This is tied for the third longest thread to date on TKP that is not a game thread.
1) 582 comments: http://www.thekeyplay.com/content/2014/april/2/mens-basketball-buzz-will...
2) 561 comments: http://www.thekeyplay.com/content/2015/april/20/ot-game-thrones-warning-...
3) 467 comments: This thread and http://www.thekeyplay.com/content/2015/august/25/tkper-careers
EDIT: Now solo third with 468 comments
We should have a TKP poll about this. 1) Will Frank Beamer be back as head coach in 2016. 2) Do you think CFB should be back as HC in 2016. Get a sense of what Hokie Nation thinks. No comments or reasoning just up or down vote.
Twitter poll:
https://twitter.com/ff_hokie/status/659835075077545985
I'm guessing at this point the results of that are changing weekly.
Voted. But really you have four options:
1. Will be and deserves to stay.
2. Will be but does not deserve to stay.
3. Won't but deserves to stay.
4. Won't and does not deserve to stay.
If one wanted to expand the survey, I would propose "VT would be better off if he stayed." Seems to me it's more a question of whether the program benefits from him staying than whether he's owed additional tenure.
I'll be interested to see the survey results, but at the end of the day, it's only Whit's and Beamer's votes that count.
It's Twitter survey I get two choices.
Was going to vote, but there wasn't an option for 'Retires after winning the championship in January of 2017'.
Shame.
You're right. I don't think that's an option.
If it were, I'm sure we'd all pick that.
Can we create a thread with 4 comments on it for upvoting one for the most votes
I think the health issue is significant. The performance isn't good, but we may be in the same situation if we were undefeated.
I have no sources or info, but I thought last Dec after the throat surgery was announced -- with very limited details about what was going on -- that it was likely something pretty serious. Simply the fact that it was all cloaked in such secrecy.
I'm not going to speculate about what it could be. But, I certainly wish the man the very best.
I thought it was incredibly odd too. Around the same time, my stepdad was undergoing treatment for squamous cell cancer in his salivary glands, and I couldn't help but notice some similarities in the changes that ordeal brought on with some of how Beamer looked and acted. Throat surgery, pretty substantial weight loss (radiation therapy absolutely kills your sense of taste, and therefore your desire to eat), decrease in energy level, generally not looking like the healthy versions of themselves. I certainly hope I'm totally wrong about drawing that conclusion, and I wish Frank the absolute best, but the similarities were pretty striking to me.
I've heard from quite a few people that Frank does indeed have cancer.
I was diagnosed in late 2012, and did chemo Jan-March of '13. I went back to work in April of '13, and it was incredibly hard to work a 9-5 schedule for the first few months. I can't imagine how much harder things would be to run a football program.
I just hope that the people I've talked to are wrong, because cancer has taken way too many good people before their time.
Yeah, it's rough shit. I'm not sure whether it was actual effects of the disease, the rigors of treatment, or simply not eating, but it totally zapped my stepdad's energy. He's a software engineer and works almost exclusively from home, but he could barely do much of that most days. Though he got "lucky" with the squamous cell form. It's extremely treatable. From diagnosis to being declared cancer free was only like 8 months, and he's bounced back really well. Assuming Frank was/is indeed sick, I certainly hope he does what's best for his health, even if it means he's gotta give up football. Man that decision would really suck though.
Chemo completely zaps your energy and appetite. Everyone's treatment is different but I would be at the infusion lab basically for an entire workday and then go home and pass out for a few hours, wake up and eat a bit and then go to bed.
I've always been skinny, so I didn't lose much weight (and you frequently get bloated from the drugs) but its certainly not uncommon for people going through treatment to lose a bunch of weight.
Has anyone been hearing Mike Tomlin's name being thrown around?
No, because a coach who's won two superbowls with one of the best franchises in the NFL isn't getting fired because he went .500 when his starting QB was injured. We have a better chance at Gruden or Dungy than Mike
LondonTOMLIN.Can I blame that mistake on dyslexia?
We have a better chance at Gruden or Dungy than Mike London.
But.. I don't want Mike London.
Huh??!!
You'll see. Don't act surprised.
Bear in mind that VT is undefeated in games where Mike London was head coach.
Which is why I'm glad he'll be there one more time, anyway.
No, but I'm all for starting the rumor. I hate the Steelers, but he would be one hell of a college coach. Smashmouth offense, great defense. Yeah, I'm all for it. Now, can he recruit? It'd be really hard for a kid not to think about those super bowl rings.
You realize the Steelers have had three coaches (including Tomlin) in over 45 years? Tomlin is probably the least available coach in all of football. Like the entire sport, at any level. Literally the least likely person.
I'm gonna go out on a limb and say yes