For the second straight season and the third time in four years, the Hokies gave up thirty points in a loss to a middling Miami Hurricanes squad. An embattled coach, a porous offensive line and an inconsistent defense appeared ripe for the pickin', but Frank Beamer's squad was unable to carry over any positive momentum from last week's inspiring win over N.C. State. Instead, Tech fans were forced to endure another frustrating performance by what looks to be another enigmatic Tech team.
There was a glaring lack of cohesion on Saturday that ultimately doomed the Hokies. Solid scoring drives were quickly undone by defensive lapses and bad penalties. Defensive stands and solid field position were wasted by backbreaking turnovers. And second chances provided by the Canes were squandered by ineffective coaching decisions.
The Hokies' inability to consistently execute and excel in certain phases of the game has become the norm in Blacksburg. As fans, we used to be able to sit down for a Tech game and at least know the Hokies were going to be physical in the trenches and commit to run the ball down the opponent's throat. When asked what this team's identity is today, I can't help throwing up a shruggie emoji and rapidly changing the subject.
Beamer Ball has long been dead. The Lunch Pail Defense is about as unpredictable as a hormonal teenager. And the national relevance of Virginia Tech's brand is questionable at best after years of average play against Power 5 teams.
From their inaugural ACC season in 2004 through 2011, the Hokies went 59-21 against Power 5 teams, never losing more than three contests to P5 programs in a given year. In the three-plus years since, the Hokies are 15-17, with only two wins coming against non-ACC opponents (Purdue, 2015; Ohio State, 2014).
There was a time when the Hokies were the alpha dog heading into important games between big time programs. You would feel unhealthily confident that Bud Foster's unit would shut down the opposing defense, regardless of their proficiency. You felt as though special teams could block a kick or take one to the house on any given play. Fans and players alike had a distinctive swagger every game.
That's no longer the case.
Virginia Tech's annual match-up with longtime rival Miami used to be a fascinating contrast in styles. The U's braggadocio versus the Hokies' quiet confidence. God-given talent versus good-old-fashioned hard work.
In recent years, it has felt more like the Hokies have been trying (and failing) to emulate the Canes, attempting to rely on athleticism over fundamentals and execution. Sure, the talent level in Blacksburg has improved significantly in recent years, but neither side of the ball is of the Ron Popeil, "Set It and Forget It" breed.
On Saturday, neither the offense or defense succeeded in altering their gameplan to stop the Canes. Miami's offense continued to beat the Hokies on slant routes when they needed a big play, none bigger than Rashawn Scott's game sealing touchdown reception with 2:44 to play. The Canes' defensive line was disruptive from the outset, creating constant pressure and forcing risky throws by both Hokie quarterbacks.
Past Tech teams were able to adjust on the fly, but this team simply looks a step behind.
This isn't just about Saturday's loss. It has been a constant the last few years, and it's going to take an awful lot of consistently strong performances to regain my trust.
If the Hokies' most recent loss illustrated anything, it was their inability to build off of last week's win. It proved that Frank Beamer's pitch is falling flat.
Sure, this is the ACC Coastal Division, where three losses could still book you a December trip to Charlotte. But with so much at stake on Saturday, there was little urgency about this team and even less discipline. Mind numbing penalties and ill-advised throws repeatedly killed promising drives, and all of that energy and juice emoted and praised last Friday was nowhere to be seen.
After the win over the Wolfpack, Frank Beamer stated, "We as a football team — players and coaches — talked about it. Some games are just bigger than others, and this one was absolutely big and critical."
So where was that same fire against Miami? Was this game less critical? Or had Frank used up all of his power-ups against N.C. State.
Through seven games, this iteration of the Hokies has proven to be the football equivalent of Einstein's definition of insanity. Short of Travon McMillian's rushing performances, there has been little progress from this team. We're hanging onto the prospect of young talent developing into something dangerous, but how long before this message rings hollow?
This program desperately needs a shot of life; something to restore trust from the fan base and provide hope moving forward. I'm not sure if comes from inside the locker room or outside the program.
Maybe Michael Brewer's return will provide that spark. Maybe a healthy Corey Marshall will kickstart a pass rush that has been sorely lacking. Or maybe this team simply has more warts than we were willing to recognize heading into the season and the last four games revealed the ugly truth.
Comments
more optimistic than me.
What's really sad is that, deep down in my gut, I knew VT would lose this game. I still watched and I hoped to be proven wrong but it didn't happen.
It used to ruin my entire week. My wife would walk on egg shells around me when we lost. Now, she just hugs me and tells me it will get better. But you know what fellow Hokies, it wont. Not with CFB still in charge. Everyone knows he won't get fired and thus, there is no external force demanding better performance. Don't even know how bad things need to get before someone says enough is enough. Probably two - three 5 win seasons..... Wow, I wouldn't even be surprised if this is one of those seasons.
I have the same story. I knew we would lose and honestly I have become numb. I'm headed to my first football game this season next weekend (tickets bought at the beginning of the season) and it is tough to swallow knowing that duke is about to walk in our stadium and beat us into the ground. My wife hasn't been a VT fan for very long but even she doesn't understand how to take this and she doesn't even like football to much.
That is funny .. I knew they would lose as well. I told myself ... somebody is going to screw up. There will be a unique combination of mistakes, bad coaching decisions, failure to make plays, penalties, you name it -- but they will all come together in a unique way that will lead to a loss. Sure enough it happened. It has happened before and will happen again. This team never finds a way to win. They find ways to lose.
For the past 28 hours or so everyone around me has asked why I'm so bummed saying things along the lines of "Its just one loss to Miami it not the end of the world" some of these are Tech fans saying this and it just kills me that some people don't understand what the significance of Saturdays loss meant for this program. I ususally try to be one of the more upbeat user's here on TKP only writing positive inspiring post and always saying things like "just wait and see what we can do when all this talent matures and these new coaches have the system in place and players to run the offensive game plan they had when hired.". After what I've seen this season..... guys I am very scared for what the future may hold for our beloved Hokies.
It's not questionable. We're 100% irrelevant. We haven't been relevant since 2011. Our victory against OSU last year kept us a bit relevant as we were a weight against OSU's chances for the playoffs. We were also relevant for a while when VT00WF happened and we were the laughing stock of college football. Both of those times were not the types of relevancy we were looking for though.
I won't be surprised if we beat Duke next week, however we are playing at home which is apparently a disadvantage to us considering our pathetic P5 record at home since 2012.
I think that this is one of the most painful truths to me. It hurts to see lane stadium and blacksburg go from one of the absolute scariest places for opposing teams to play to one of the scariest places for hokie fans to watch us play. To see that home field fire slowly dim more and more over the recent years is the worst.
One thing I know for sure is that the players and coaches don't sit in the stands. The lack of fire is solely on the crowd even if the production on the field has been lacking.
Ever try to light a fire with a bum lighter?
Why would you use your backside to light a fire. And if you could, why would you tell anyone else about it except your doc?
Just hoping for a bowl berth.
I trust Whit, he has shown nothing but utmost control and wise decision making since his hire.
I'm just worried that Fuente is going to be too high on some other lists for us now. USC (both) are probably going to be all over him. Herman would go to the other I feel, both coaches are undefeated. Herman has only really beat Louisville but nobody else has really been close. Their head to head could easily have both teams undefeated.
Chad Morris has some work to do
I agree that Fuente is probably pretty high on everyone's lists these days. However, I think there are some serious draw backs to getting involved with programs as high profile as USC-w. Granted Sarkisian had some pre-existing demons (hopefully he's getting all the help he needs. God speed.), but I think the stress of "La La Land" expectations, history of the program, and the boosters might make an up-and-coming coach hesitant. Unfortunately, a seven figure check can make almost anyone forget about any potential issues.
VT has a lot of pluses, and I don't say that because I'm a homer. That aside, I'll echo the concern of others on here in that we need to find a coach that wants to be here for a long time and establish his legacy. Not a coach that wants to use us a springboard to something higher (not that Fuente or any other coach has that or would have that in mind).
Putting emphasis on finding a guy who wants to stay here with no other aspirations really limits you to either former vt alums (noon really out there right now) or mediocre coaches. I'd shoot for the stars and not worry too much about that for now. If they build us into a power house then we may become a more coveted dream job, or if they at least make us relavent before heading to the nfl or whatever I think I'd be fine with that too
to your point, throw in a nice buyout clause so that if the coach does become a hot commodity and gets poached, at least VT gets some $$ to throw at their next coach.
The problem with buyout clauses is, the institution rarely ever gets what is actually noted in the contract and attempting to enforce one almost always paints the institution in a bad light publicly. Colorado State got hammered in the media for trying to enforce Jim McElwain's buyout clause when he left for Florida.
well that sucks. i'll be stubborn and stick to it then, even if it gets negotiated down. something is better than nothing.
Let me clarify that I do want a coach with aspirations. A coach that wants to win multiple NC's and drive this program back to national relevance. I just don't want a coach that wants to do that and then jump ship, but I suppose that's trying to control for a variety of unknown variables.
Fuente is a good choice, but by no means the only good choice. My list is still the same, in order:
1. Brian Harsin -- Boise. Makes $1.2M/year. We can offer $2M+ more than that. If he says no, then.....
2. Mark Richt -- UGA. If he gets fired or if maybe he's just as frustrated with that fanbase as they are with him. If he says no, then.....
3. Justin Fuente -- Memphis. Good looking young coach, will have other suitors. If he says no, then.....
4. Tom Herman - -Houston. Mensa member, smartest guy out there. Like Fuente, will have other suitors. If he says no, then.....
5. RichRod -- Arizona. I know, polarizing. But it would be fun. In line to make some cash at Arizona down the line, but currently only making $2M/year. If he says no, then.....
.....there are still a load full of other candidate to call:
If you like upside over experience: Phillip Montgomery at Tulsa, Matt Campbell at Toledo, Matt Rhule at Temple, Mike Bobo at Colorado State, Chad Morris at SMU, Dino Babers at Bowling Green, Jeff Brohm at Western Kentucky, PJ Fleck at W. Michigan and Matt Wells at Utah State.
If you prefer experience over upside: Steve Addazio at BC, David Cutcliffe at Duke, Bo Pelini at Youngstown, Ruffin McNeil at ECU, Dan Mullen at Mississippi State.
And if you just want to give a call to some guys to gauge any interest, you call: David Shaw at Stanford, Pat Fitzgerald at Northwestern, Mark Dantonio at Michigan State, Gary Patterson at TCU, Mike Tomlin with the Steelers, Bruce Arians with the Cardinals, John Harbaugh with the Ravens.
If you pull $3M+ together for this job, you're going to have some interest. That's
2426 names, not even getting into the Assistant Coaches category (because arguably, Bud Foster should get it if you go that route).And, yes, I know. ______ probably won't come here.....and you'd stop being a VT football fan if we hired ________ (probably RichRod in that last one).
Edit: See this article for more info on the best 12 non-p5 candidates. I forgot Fleck and Wells, added them in.
I'd squeal like a girl if we managed to snag John Harbaugh
I really don't feel comfortable with the thought of giving the keys to VT's football future to Harsin.
Looking at Boise State's record, his success is great based on the lack of competition they play each week. When it is time for them to play better teams they don't seem to be all that successful. I just feel like Harsin has a lot of smoke and mirrors working in his behalf.
Back when Frank Beamer did this, we called it "scheduling for success."
I think Tom Herman needs to be a little higher on that list IMO. I would certainly take Herman over Harsin. Herman was a genius coordinator at tOSU and did an excellent job reviving a less known offense with an always stellar defense(familiar?). Fantastic recruiter as well. Although he's a little short on experience at the helm, he's already doing great things down at Houston.
We'd need to find a stellar defense for him. We don't have one currently.
Very true.
I used to be bullish on finding someone who wanted to keep Foster. I don't feel like that is feasible any longer. The program has been allowed to erode to such an extent that the new coach will need to make tough calls on personnel, players and patterns that may be more difficult to do if the defensive staff remains intact.
I don't feel that Bud's defensive stats are a negative, if we can get someone who has a top 33 defense in his down years, we should be happy. I just feel like we need a clean slate, which is unfortunate.
Youre coaching prowess astounds me. Thanks for sharing. Sadly this has been the most uplifting post ive seen lately. Hmm. What does that say about the state of our team?
It should be uplifting, the future is bright. Frank has got us this far, it didn't turnover how he expected it would. But that's okay, we'll say our goodbyes with grace and respect and open a new door.
Amen!!
Nicely, concisely said.
Rhule has done quietly well at Temple. Let's see how the season goes. I don't see Fuente going west, USCe or Georgia ok, but the option will be there.
USC should go after Dantonio first, if they can't get him (he makes $3.7M now, 16th in the country), if not, then they should decide between Kirby Smart and Justin Fuente. Smart may have too many similarities to Muschamp. Fuente looks like Freeze at this point.
If I'm UGA, I get rid of Richt if I think I have a clear upgrade. That list, to me, would be Gary Patterson, Hugh Freeze or Art Briles. Maybe it's time for Richt to go anyway, but I could see UGA joining the top 5 in salary (currently at $3.7m, need to go to $5M to pass Urban Meyer at $4.8M). UGA could be a good fit for Kirby Smart as well, but I'm not sure that's an upgrade on Richt.
Richt may be a good fit for Miami as well since he played there. Seems like an odd personality fit (good guy Richt with the Canes) but it could be a comfortable landing spot if he's walked from UGA. UVA could be a good spot for Richt as well.
EDIT: -- Fun fact about Matt Rhule -- He played LB at Penn St from 94-97....coached defense from everywhere from UCLA to WCarolina until he ended up at Temple in the 2000's. In 2007, he switched from coaching DL at Temple to coaching QB's!!!! That's a big switch. Since then, he's been on the offensive side, including OC under Golden at Temple and assistant OL coach with the Giants prior to being named HBC at Temple. Diverse background, both defense and offense. Like Urban Meyer (who was a DB at Cincy then became an offensive genius).
Does he have a boxing glove on a stick?
For me, it's Bo Pelini. I can't stand that guy and would take RichRod over him any day of the week. NO TO BO. Here's my top 5 for coaches to replace old man Beams (I can honestly say that this fluctuates depending on the time of day and how optimistic I am...)
1. Mark Richt - Clearly knows what he is doing, and would attract plenty of recruits to the Burg.
2. Bruce Arians/John Harbaugh - Both very good coaches who are struggling in the NFL and may want change.
3. Rich Rodriguez - Anyone want a TRUE offense to come to Tech? I DOOOOO.
4. Tom Herman - Guy knows his stuff, I'd love to see him come to Tech and give it a go with our program.
5. Chad Morris - I think he would be a solid hire, I know the jury is still out on him as a HC, but I personally like him.
After the Buzz Williams hire, Whit has shown us that he is more than capable of making a big name hire, and that money isn't a problem. Go big or go home right?
Bruce Arians/John Harbaugh - Both very good coaches who are struggling in the NFL and may want change.
Arians isn't struggling at all, if anything his team is overachieving right now!!!
Agree about Pelini. At least I didn't list Solich (at Ohio still). Or Paul Johnson.
I still think the odds on favorite is RichRod and I'm damn excited for that to happen. So many times in sports, the guy you hate joins your team and you love him. I was that way with Jonny Gomes for years before he joined the Red Sox and said "Just another day closer to the parade" every day until they won the WS. I want to get RichRod and I want him to declare that we'll beat UT in Bristol, we'll beat WVU in DC, we'll be ND in SB and we'll beat UVA forever. Then give the Marcus Vick/WVU salute and walk out.
Why is nobody talkin about Tommy Tuberville? Whit hired him at Cincy.
Whit's probably wanting to hire a different person. If he hires the same guy at two places in a row, it's gonna look suspect.
Plus, Tuberville is 61. We're gonna be right back at the age thing almost immediately.
An embattled coach, a porous offensive line and an inconsistent defense appeared ripe for the pickin'
Da U did some pickin' alright :(
I assumed this was referencing us, as well.
This is a delicate time for Hokie Nation. The next few months will be extremely important for the future of VT football. We could continue this spiral into the doldrums of college football if Whit is not careful and deliberate with his next 2 decisions. They are the biggest decisions he'll make to date. The first decision is deciding when to replace Beamer. The second decision will be who replaces Beamer.
I'm afraid that if Whit screws up the first decision then the second one won't matter much. I honestly don't see how this program will ever turn around with Beamer at the helm (we've been waiting patiently for 3 years...and I haven't seen any results...has anybody else?). He's grown complacent and comfortable. Sure, he doesn't like to lose. Nobody likes to lose. But he can still go home and sleep comfortably at night after a loss. VT desperately needs a jolt of energy and a culture re-adjustment. This is not the blue collar, mean, smash mouth, play-anybody-any-time type of team that we all grew to love. This isn't even a shell of its old self. I don't know what this team is but it certainly isn't Virginia Tech brand. That's not a shot at the players. They're doing all they can to win. They can only do so much under the leadership and guidance of their coaches. The problem lands squarely on the shoulders of the coaching staff. That starts with Beamer. It needs to end there too.
I know this probably wasn't said literally, but does anyone actually think a man of his age and health concerns should be made to lose sleep after how much he's done for the program? Many of us woudn't even care that VT played football if not for CFB. Wishing the man troubled nights at his age is basically wishing him an early death.
That says more about why he should give up the reins than anything, but I still feel like football just isn't important enough to wish the man ill.
The man's already ill. And he's pretending serious health concerns aren't affecting his level of job performance, when they clearly are.
Well if you're interpreting that comment as me wishing the man ill you're completely off base. I'm not saying at all that Frank doesn't deserve to sleep well at night. I'm saying that he is complacent and his seat is not hot. Frank has earned the keys to the program but there in lies the problem. He has much more control over his destiny than any coach really should have. Frank's job security is not dependent on the Win column. Frank has something that even Nick Saban wouldn't have. Do you really think if Nick Saban went 6-7 at Alabama they would keep him around for another 3 years?
Frank is Virginia Tech. VT would not be where it is today if it were not for Frank. I think everyone can agree on that. But the fact of the matter is that Frank is too comfortable in his job. He's just going through the motions. I don't think he's truly motivated to perform because in the back of his mind he knows that he'll still be loved and revered in Blacksburg regardless of the team's record. He's done enough for this program to deserve that but at the same time that mentality breeds complacency which then leads to mediocrity. Don't look now but VT hasn't been relevant in college football in 5 years. That's an eternity in college football these days. This business is very much a what-have-you-done-for-me-lately environment and, frankly, VT has done jack squat lately.
I don't see anything improving under Frank at this point and I think a big reason for that is because he's too comfortable. He deserves to be comfortable but it's bad for the program. 1. Keep the man happy and watch the program continue to sink. 2. Make the man stressed out and have a potential impact on his health knowing that there's only a small chance things will improve if he feels the heat. Or 3. Have him graciously step down and bring in a new coach and culture to take the torch from Frank and try to get VT moving back in the right direction.
I'm for option 3. Thank Frank for what he's done, take the reigns away from him, and keep him as happy as you can make him under those circumstances.
I do think he was complacent in keeping some coaches too long and in allowing some to slack off in recruiting. Today, I don't think he is complacent, or comfortable, at all. I think he wants success now maybe more than ever.
I'm 60 and I fully understand that at some point the handicap goes the other direction. I think that's where Frank is right now. He simply isn't as good or as effective as he used to be. I'm not sure how much of it, if any part at all, is illness. Regardless the number of mental errors this team makes both on the field and on the headsets does not reflect well on the coaching staff.
But for Bristol and the opportunity to coach at South Bend next year, I'm not sure there would be any doubt that Whit would make a change this year. I'd like to see Frank rewarded for all he has done, but it has become pretty frustrating and painful to watch. Entertainment is supposed to be fun.
We seem to be going down option 1 -- keep him happy watch it sink. And that will continue ... until revenue from tickets sales goes down. Is this is Bowden and FSU all over again? It got downright embarrassing at FSU. Stadium half full, students scoffing, and only then did they force him out. Hopefully it will not come to that in Blacksburg.
My thing is it's the same things that have been killing the team for years now....pre-snap penalties, poor decisions by a QB which lead to mind boggling turnovers, and an overall inability to defend against mobile QB's who can burn someone with their arm or legs. When these things aren't being corrected after YEARS, to me that speaks to coaching because different players are making the same mistakes.
I know there are still people out there who want Foster to replace CFB, but I think a complete culture change is needed, a fresh start to light a fire under everyone within the program. That's not to discount what many of the coaches on the staff have done for VT football, but a fresh start is sometimes a good thing for all parties when things become too comfortable, which I feel they have.
I still blame you. You have not lived up to your moniker.
We need MOAR FULLERS!!!
I've been a Hokie since '95 when I came to Blacksburg as a Freshman and I was at the '95 Miami game. In short, unless someone has died, I don't miss games. During deer season I'm always back in time for the game.
Saturday? I spent my afternoon chasing musky on the New RIver. I really didn't care what or how much football I missed. I climbed out of the river midway of the second quarter and realized that my gut was correct. I didn't miss anything.
We are an epic has been at this point.
I post a lot over at TSL. When Chris Coleman gave his Michigan/Tech Sugar Bowl preview he stated something along the lines of "fans, you had better do what you can to enjoy this, because it will never happen again". Talk about prophetic.
Great article bud. I really appreciate your writing style. I'm really pulling for our boys and staff, but all evidence points to a regime change...soon. Let's hope they can finish strong.
My wife went to Tennessee and she was saying the other day "you're going down the same path we did at the end of Fulmer's career".
We can only hope that we make better decisions in the coach hiring process. I definitely trust in Whit.
I didn't think we'd win this game going in. However, to see how it was lost was very frustrating. If you just get beat by the other team, then okay. That happens. However to basically give Miami 14 points and lose by 10 is frustrating. To see McMillian gashing Miami's defense and for him to only get 11 carries is just wrong. Another frustrating thing is that the same fire that was there last week wasn't there this week. You could tell when we got a 4th down stop on Miami and the defense just kinda of walked around like 'oh well'. There is no swarming defense like there used to be and more importantly they don't seem to celebrate good plays when they make them. I remember players getting all hyped up on a big hit or a sack or defended pass on third down. Now that fire isn't there and it's detrimental. You can see by the way they played against NCST and others. If we are down they seem to stay down and don't get hyped for a come back.
I don't think we'll lose to Duke. I still see Duke as Duke. They are more dangerous and can beat us but I still think we pull this one out.
I just told my co worker the same thing. The defense just isn't what it used to be anymore. No pressure. No discipline. No fire. No TO's either. PITT fumbled four times and we only recovered one. The U won the TO battle 4-0. Past Defenses would have made it a priority to get the ball back via a turnover.
I think the game was lost there and lost after Maddy jumped and decided to try to get onsides, rather than jump and follow through, because the ref would have blown the play dead due to unabated to the QB. Instead, Maddy tries to get back and a saavy QB made a play.
I remember years like 2007 when I was frustrated that I had more confidence in our defense and special teams to score than our offense. Now I would give my right leg for a team like that...
It is almost like the players expected to lose too ...
Nobody take this the wrong way because I am frustrated about where this team is too, but I've been wondering about sustained success in college football. I've only really followed college football at all since I came to Virginia Tech in 2011. Since then I've gotten as into it as I can, but am pretty limited in my knowledge of before a few seasons ago.
So my question is this. Virginia Tech had a run of incredibly successful seasons in the late 1990s and 2000s. For years, 10 win seasons were the norm and now we are a .500 team. Is this a common trend? Do any programs sustain success for as long as we did or longer? Alabama is very good now, but before Saban got there, they weren't winning championships every year. Michigan is having a good year after several very bad ones. USC was good and is having trouble now.
Is it uncommon to have a bad period like we are having now? It seems like everyone has bad times, is it reasonable to be hopeful for the future, even if it will probably only come after Beamer steps down?
No it is not uncommon. Just about every top ranked/successful coach has gone down this path has he nears retirement.
It is quite common. Look at Georgia Tech this year.
*sigh*
My biggest question watching the end of that game...if the coaches had any thought that they might put Brewer in the game, why not do it after Motley's 2nd or even 3rd turnover?
Um, they did put Brewer in after Motley's third turnover.
Motley probably got a bit of a free pass on that first turnover, because it was kind of a freak thing. But then he threw two picks.
Ah, I must have lost count. I thought he had the fumble and then 3 picks. My mistake.
because it was kind of a freak thing
Not such a "freak thing"...he does it at least once a game. Also, throws an unusual amount of passes into the dirt. He must have really small hands.
By the way we lost this game, it wouldn't surprise me if we lost every single game for the rest of the season. And, by the way we won the NCST game, it wouldn't surprise me if we won every single game for the rest of the season. I feel like this whole season is the 2013 game against BC.
The lack of consistency is pretty frustrating. The high level performance is there, but just disappears for long stretches. Even the NCSU game, we were awful for a full 25+ minutes of that game.
Step 1 for the VT program is we have to start playing well at home. If we can win our home games, our fans will be excited and we can start to find some consistency. Another chance this weekend.
I've been saying for years now to my wife and others that Hokie fans have to decide what is good enough. The options are a NC, a playoff team, a BCS bowl, the ACC championship, the Coastal, a 6-6 with a chump bowl or a sub-500 team year after year. Just what is good enough to keep you continuing to support them, buy the tickets, buy the gear, donate to the Hokie Club, & subscribe to TKP??? For myself, unless we happen to acquire a once-in-a-lifetime QB like Michael (Vick, that is, not Brewer) along with a decent defense, the NC is out. We just happened to have all our stars aligned in 1999. Currently, I don't think any of the other options are gonna happen for a while with the exception of the latter two options. So, what does that mean for me? I no longer donate to the Hokie club, am not a season ticket holder (my wife, with her job in Administration, has pretty good access to 50 yd tickets for 95% of the home games), I have quit buying the gear and clothing, and so on. But, I used to do all of that (except season tix) and until lately, got a return on my investment that was adequate. Then I asked myself on Saturday just what should I be able to expect for my investment? I never ever get angry at the players for stupidity, undisciplined acts, lack of emotion, nor not being motivated (unlike NC State where they were truly emotional and motivated). They are young student athletes starting their journey into their future and it's not easy incorporating the academics and football together. No, I always vent on the coaches and I believe rightly so. It is their job to prepare them, motivate, and instill a fire and pride each and every game. I always just wanted them to compete. If we lost to a better team, then so be it. Like the game and a half that we competed with OSU. I also always said that either we don't recruit good enough talent and that the coaches do the best they can or that we do get good enough talent and the coaches just aren't getting it done well enough. I've changed my mind back and forth a lot over the years. Either way, today, we aren't anything but the sub-500 or the 6-6 with the chump bowl. It is my opinion that fairly soon, CFB has to bow out. That doesn't and shouldn't diminish his legacy and what he did for VT football. I just don't want to see another Bowden scenario. For me, head coaches are either nice guys or ones with their hair on fire every time they are with the players. I think that I would like to see a fiery, jumping up and down, angry guy that gets his guys to be warriors carrying the flags into battle and excels at player development. I don't know if that would translate to better recruiting or not but the nice guy roaming the sideline shrugging his shoulders and raising his arms in victory when regulation ended with a 0-0 score, doesn't do it for me any more. The list of Urban Meyer, Les Miles, Nick Saban, Art Briles, Cutcliffe, Richt, Rich Rod, Todd Graham, David Shaw, Dana Holgorsen, Spurrier, Bill Snyder, Mike Gundy, Mark Dantonio, etc are the epitome of what I'd love to see. Could we get one of the them? Probably not but are there others that I can't think of out there that could be our guy? I can't come to a conclusion about Bud Foster. I like the hell out of him but don't have a clue if he could translate into one of those. But, finally what is good enough for me? I say that if you're a sub-500, you can be a 6-6, if you are 6-6 you can win the Coastal, if you can win the Coastal, etc, etc. The Hokies pull me left and right so many times that my shoulders hurt for days after.......Being in denial for so long now really sucks.....
What I hate is this rhetoric that we've been hearing about for years the "if we just make one good block, that play goes for a TD and we win" or CSL saying "4 plays decide the game".
That may be true when you're an average team. Top performing teams don't have that mindset, unless it's #1 vs. #2 or if they have their "scare" ie "The Miracle in Morgantown".
Here's is my long and whiny point of view after I spelt on it:
Same shit different game
Same post game quotes
Same WTF moments
Same feeling of aggravation
Fool me once same on you, fool me twice shame on me, fool me for the last 5 years and on to basketball season I go and saving space on my DVR.
Good luck to the players and if I happen to be free when they are playing I will watch but I am done scheduling my weekend around them. My only hope, we have 5 wins going into UVA and that decides if we go home or to some god awful bowl game before Christmas, where we will go play balls out against Bowling Green or someone and look like world beaters again due to multiple weeks to plan.
At this point, there isn't a coach on this staff that I would consider keeping, even Foster ( I know, I know, greatest defensive mind in the game, blah blah blah.) Have we really been that shutdown when it counts the last few years. Pitt, BC, Miami, anyone with a big Oline pushes us around with ease and our LB corp has been mediocre ,as a whole, since Hall and Adibi dominated. There is no second level defense at all.
Also, DBU has been less than PU this year, other than flashes, our single coverage has been exposed and I don't know who is teaching our guys to just stick their hands up and not turn around but it is killing us with PI calls and double moves.
Last thought that confuses me: Motely plays like he was high for 2 and a half quarters, Brewer comes in cold and teams looks more under control for one series. Why the hell would you put in Brewer at that point knowing that if he succeeded the fire under your seats as coaches would only get hotter?
Absolute last thought: Virginia Tech cannot afford to allow Beamer to go out like Bowden did. Virginia Tech does not have the tradition, reputation, or finances to allow Beamer to go out on his own terms or have a swan song. I am not sure how this should be done or even look but I am hoping there are discussions going on already to not only save Beamer's legacy but also save Virginia Tech Football from falling too far from relevance even in the ACC.
Losing games like this is more frustrating than getting your ass whipped by a better team. We've had too many painful losses like this where we blew opportunities and committed AWFUL turnovers. We haven't been able to get out of our own way for four seasons now.
At this point in the season, I wonder who has the biggest regret; Babcock for getting Foster on a contract through 2019, or Foster for not going to TAMU.
probably no regret for either.. IMO injuries and suspensions early on killed us. Dadi is nowhere near 100%, 2nd d line is nowhere near the talent we thought it was, Fuller out for year, Motu had a rough start then got injured, Reavis gone (still in shock).
Soo much has been put on our defense to lead us and keep us in games and now its finally starting to break.
Michigan state has had 11 starters go down and they are still undefeated...
Michigan State also has a more typical defensive scheme and better 2 deep than Bud's..
not saying its an excuse as to why we're losing but can't really compare the 2.
Michigan State got the biggest gift the football gods could muster the other day.
So they must be doing SOMETHING right.
I agree with the above reply, the defense has lacked those clutch stops when we really need them this year but we are young and have been hampered by injuries. Additionally, we most certainly didn't lose this game because the defense. We spotted them 7 points and had 4 turnovers, this one was certainly on the offense, even if our D failed to make the big stop at the end.
we spotted them 7 on the first turnover, but it was stupid defensive mistakes that gave them another 7 before the half. Miami only managed a TD and a field goal after the half. If we'd forced them 3 and out before the half, we go into half time tied or up 3 (I don't think we get in the end zone with that kind of time). The whole game goes a different direction from then on, even with the gift TD on that fumble.
There was so much more wrong with that than just the defense. We handled that situation as poorly as we could have. The defense made stupid penalties and got burned, but the coaches also played a part in that horrific debacle.
I didn't infer that Foster was the problem. I'm just opining that Foster may regret not leaving for a youthful program and that Whit may have regretted making such a long term deal when the program is disappearing into the twilight.
Due to family obligations, I was only able to watch about ten minutes of this game spread over 2 quarters. I looked at the stats afterwords and avoided the site over the weekend. It appears other than four turnovers we were completely in this game. Were the picks bad throws, poor choices, tipped balls, or all of the above. I was a bit surprised to hear that Brewer played but only in the 4th quarter.
It will be interesting to read the analysis's of this game, but as much as I loathe losing to Miami, I kind of expected it. They gave FSU everything they could handle. This is an inconsistent Miami team, but they will definitely be bowling.
The first turnover was a fumble where Motley just lost the ball as he was bringing it up to throw. I'll chalk it up to the "stuff happens" category. The misfortune is that it happened at the wrong 3 yard line, so Miami got a TD with one run.
The fourth turnover was by Brewer, but by that point, it was all pass all the time to overcome a 10 point deficit.
At least one of the two INTs by Motley involved him staring down his receiver.
One of the few plays I got to see was the Brewer pick. But at least he didn't have an dropped pass in the game, every thrown ball was caught. I also saw a play where a Miami player should have been ejected for targeting. They call roughing the passer when he hit Brewer, but he also clearly dropped his helmet and lead with the crown into Brewers shoulder.
I've come to wonder how these past three to four years have impacted the more common VT fan. What I mean by that is those of us posting to TKP, reading daily articles, etc. seem to be on the far end of the spectrum when it comes to caring about a successful (at times even competent) VT football program. I believe we are seeing longtime, die-hard fans atrophy under the weight of the emotional roller coaster this program has become. I wonder if the same is happening with the macro fan base, and if so what has been or could be the impact on the revenue generation of the program. I have no clue how widespread this is, but I have increasingly heard / read fans describing their feeling after a bad loss as numb (myself included). I can't imagine this emotion, or lack thereof, is good for any of the forms of revenue generation (e.g., ticket sales, merchandise sales, donations, concessions, booster events). I know Whit has done a good job getting things back in the right direction, but prior to that we know at least a few of those sources were declining.
All of this led me to an personal analogy of how things are starting to feel. I like to go to the casino now and again for bachelor parties, random trip every few years, etc. A grind it out session at the blackjack or craps table can be all right, but far from memorable. The memorable times for me are when a table gets white hot, go up big, and start making screw it bets with house money. 8/10 times I'll end up back where I started, or lose the small amount I walked in with, but damn I love the risk-free, high-reward potential of playing hard with house money. Frank's hard work, perseverance, and dedication to VT built him a huge stack of house money, but the table turned ice cold in a hurry and almost everyone knows it. I'm not implying that Beamer is gambling with the future of this program, my point is that the cooler popped into the seat next to him and I just hope he makes the right move as soon as practicable.
We owe Beamer a lot for what he has done, what he has built, and his love for this program. That said, what he built has become bigger than him, and that's a good thing. Every great football program has had a coach or coaches that elevated the ceiling of its potential. That's called doing your job extremely well. The reward for it is certainly not the latitude to potentially cause long-term damage thereafter. I don't think we are there yet, but this slope isn't getting any flatter.
Some good points here but I'll focus on this one:
I can only speak for myself and a pair of friends I regularly text with during the games, but we're all still on board. One of them was never huge into football to begin with but still always tunes in. The other is big into football and still always tunes in. I'm big into the team and never miss a game, going as far as to schedule the rest of my weekend plans around it.
I am not experiencing the same emotional rollercoaster that many others are. When we started to make changes I targeted the 2016 season as the first season where I would really want to draw any hard conclusions about what we've been able to do over the past few years with staff changes and the like. At the beginning of the last two seasons I've believed that we should have turned the corner, only to find myself a little disappointed in how the season goes.
But I've stayed true to the choice I made a few years back when I put my emotions aside and gave our rebuild a good hard look from a purely logical perspective. The rebuild was going to take time. There were rough times ahead. I decided on 2016. As difficult as it has been to wait that long, I continually go back to that decision instead of getting caught up in a bunch of losses on any given season, or getting caught up in a game where we looked particularly bad (W00F-ers and PITT-iful showings included).
I stand by this.
My sentence wasn't written as clearly as I intended it to be. What I meant was that we are seeing some longtime, die-hard fans get drained from this; not all of them; would never intend to generalize an entire segment of the fan base.
My point being that as a group, you may expect those individuals to be the most resilient against the ebbs and flows of college football, but even some of them are tiring out.
Leg for pointing out my bad sentence.
Oh I didn't think it was bad at all, in fact, I think there is ample evidence to suggest that many die hard fans are de-prioritizing the program much in the same way I've done with my Redskins. I just wanted to throw in my personal experience.
We brought in a new OC, and sent the other guy to coach the TE's because he is a good recruiter. I ask everyone, have you really seen much improvement in this offense. There are a boat load of excuses, the offense is so complicated the current QB can't use the entire playbook (BS). There is very little creativity in this offense and it is way too predictable. When you don't have the talent, you better use some smoke and mirrors to cover the holes. In short, the OC has not been what was advertised, nor was he our choice (I believe 3rd choice but I could be wrong) so this experiment is over.
As for BF, until they find some LB's to hit somebody and not get out of position, this D will never be successful. I don't like to mention names but Clarke had no clue late in the game and pulled an Albert Hanworth laying on the ground with the Miami QB right behind him.
Tough decision for our AD, but he did well with the BB hire (for the 1st year), so let's see howw it goes. My prediction is we may win one more game this year. But it is always week to week with team as far as who shows up to play.
But I will be there at the Duke game cheering them on. But the sad part is, I have 4 tickets and only the OSU have I had anybody else sitting with me and wife. Can't even give the tickets away. I guess visiting winerys, has replaced Saturday afternoon football in Blacksburg.
I now expect to be disappointed. And sure enough my expectations were correct. Until they consistently perform otherwise, I expect the Hokies to lose. There is just too much history over the last four years of finding a way to lose. It almost like it is orchestrated. Last week we screwed up there. So this week will be different and we will screw up here. But rest assured, we WILL screw up and find a way to lose.
I live in South Carolina. Every year we bought tickets and made the trip to Blacksburg two or three times. Last year we went to the Wake Forest game. The game ended 0-0 in regulation and of course the Hokies lost 6-3 (remember ... we gotta find a way to lose .... and we did! ). After that game I told myself no more tickets. I am not going to waste my money. I told my kids this year we are not going to a game. The team needs to prove to me first they have turned the corner. My decision was correct. This year is just like the last four years. No tickets for me next year either unless it is clear the team has turned the corner.
So what did I do this year? Stayed home. I stained my deck out back getting ready for winter to come and periodically checked up on the game. Sure enough they found a way to lose. But my deck is stained and looks great. And I did not burn any cash on tickets, hotel, and travel to Blacksburg.
Just a quick comment on the "pass rush". Sure it has been lacking at times this year. Corey being out has been huge. Baron has been alright, but we could use the depth there. Dadi is clearly playing with fingers that he cannot use. I noticed him looking at and feeling his fingers several times in between plays on Saturday.
That being said, I thought they got decent pressure and were the strength on Saturday. They just couldn't get to Kaaya quick enough. He was getting the ball out with accuracy very quickly. I think he is the best QB in the ACC right now. Our young secondary lost too many battles Saturday. If Adonis, Mook, and Edmunds all stay healthy, I think they can be a great unit the next couple of seasons, but they will have to learn from that game.
I think we are all part of the problem. We get way to high with a win (NC State, Purdue), and way too low with a loss. And the football team likely mirrors that, in a time of such emo culture and everyone gets a trophy win lose or draw.
Not going to watch the Hokies because of a bad loss? Giving up season tickets? Go for it. I love the Hokies win, lose, or draw. But I prefer them when they win.
Beamer's time may be over...but look at what UVA did Welsh. 15 years of crap since then. I think CFB should look closely at his OC. Seems like Lefty doesn't know how to call a game.
Man. That was kind of all over the place. I'll just leave it at I disagree.
I have to admit, I don't understand what is going on at VT. It's like an enigma wrapped in a conundrum.
I thought they had turned a corner with the NC State game, but the mo from that game didn't seem to carry over to Miami. I'm open to suggestions to make this team make sense to me. I understand that the Hokie offense may have issues with a young QB, but even the defense had significant breakdowns.
Help a confused man out and give me a way for this to make sense. My gut tells me that VT is a team with a pretty high ceiling that is playing about half-way up the wall.
Since the ACC Wheel of Destiny by itself wasn't interesting enough, we've added new wrinkles to the conference -- like how ridiculous a win can Wake Forest pull off, and which Hokies team will show up to a game.
Now just imagine following this unpredictable team for years and you will see why many of us are so nuts. The only thing predictable about VT the last few years is unpredictability. VT football is like a box of chocolates.
...box of chocolates?
If we took the bones out it wouldn't be crunchy, would it?
We'll let you know as soon as we figure it out ourselves...
From a diehard fan perspective, it's a riddle, wrapped in a mystery, inside an enigma.
From an outsider perspective, it's a team that just isn't that good.
Offense- 1) Talented players, ground-up rebuild of fundamentals in progress (everybody underestimates the utlity of upper-classmen helping to coach fundamentals to youngsters in the off-time), 2) solid planning-questionable coaching (I say solid and I mean solid, average, not good, not bad...the run game is good, but we don't use it enough...we have the personnel to run I-formation or 5-wide with the same personnel package, but we don't appear to be interested in that anymore than running a heavy set with 5 legit receiving threats...the play calling screams I want to pass...with running personnel groups so there's only 3 possible targets...)
Defensively- 1) depth...I don't really know what happened, but the sad thing is that we have these great guys who are seniors...and the their backups haven't even pretended to challenge for 4 years...worst of all, this isn't the biggest problem, 2) Linebackers...we don't have any elite high school LBs much less average college LBs...they're not tall enough, not fast enough, and forced to play a scheme that depends on them being great...not good, great, to be effective
Special Teams- 1) Beamer-ball is dead here. We can't cover a kick to deliver the hard hits to dislodge it, we can't block a kick anymore, we can barely return a kick to the twenty without the opponent kicking it out...
Coaching/Culture- We're stale. Our coaches are still fired up, but they haven't got the personnel to run what they choose to run anymore, they're unwilling to change unless absolutely forced to, and they're comfortable with mediocrity...there is a difference in acknowledging mediocrity and being comfortable with it, and the HC's comments/tone have repeatedly demonstrated comfort. They get uncomfortable, and they motivate the team to win...but as soon they sit back down in comfort so does the team. Ergo inconsistency.
Everybody keeps talking about how CFB is gone when ticket sales drop...they've been dropping. That's not what gets him out. He'll leave of his own accord, sometime this year, when he sees the team has quit on him. And they will, because a large chunk of the fanbase has quit on this season. Whit is watching, and he's talking with CFB, but I don't think Frank gives up until he's standing there, all by him-self, and realises it really is over.
Sadly, our system that requires the linebackers to be great, not good also does not translate to the NFL. Most of our LB's move in the NFL if they make it. Two of the all time great VT LB's Hall and Adibi didn't make it.
I agree about the system not translating to the NFL, but to be fair to Hall, he destroyed his knee on a jet ski before the BCS game against Kansas and was never the same after that, so his potential pro career got derailed before it really had a chance to get started. Adibi did managed to stick with the Texans for three years, followed by one year stints with the Vikings, Bears (practice squad), and Titans. Not exactly a Pro Bowl career, but six years is slightly better than average. But to your point, to of VT's best couldn't shine in the league. James Anderson has put together a decent career.
Football is a very emotional game, and at the college level, it's the coaches who set the tone.
Oh, I just love the Hokies too. I love our student athletes and love watching them go from wet-behind-the -ears to young adult men. I wish all of them great success in the careers and life. I will not give up on rooting for them and I will be glued to every game they play. But, for now, it will be in front of the TV in my worn-out Hokie gear and otherwise with the least amount of expense. My last game at Lane, for now, will be the Duke game. My wife got me one of those 50-yd line tickets and I can't waste the money. I hope they win but if not, I will cheer for them. If this makes me a fair-weather fan like Russell Wilson says, then so be it. But I won't give up on the players.
I just keep reminding myself, that we have not lost a tailgate yet. So, like you, I am in for the long haul.
In fact, the tailgates have gotten better, with the lack of noon kick offs and all.