Why not give Lawson some significant PT and let him get some real experience since we have already burned the redshirt?
I understand the traditional thinking that you can "scar" a quarterback for life if you play him before he's ready, but I don't subscribe to this, especially if he's not expected to come in and be the man. IMO, if Lawson played an entire game, he would look like a completely different QB by the end of the game. Not saying we should play him for an entire game, but I wouldn't be opposed. Let the kid get out there and sling it around. Worst that happens is we lose the game (and potentially scar the kid for life).
At this point, we are playing for a bowl appearance and a win over UVA. I think we can achieve both of those goals and still get Lawson ready for next year.
Comments
I'm sure Lawson could have matched the 3 turnover output with ease.
The only x-factor now is the Brewer is back (ish) from injury. I think he has earned the right to finish his college career with as many reps as he can handle, which might be all. If it were just a Motley/Lawson situation, that could be more clear cut, but with Brewer back its tough to argue that he doesn't give us a better chance to win, which IMO, is what the coaches are going to try to do each game, no matter how far back in the standings we are.
This is not major league baseball, the pressure is on the coaches to try to win each and every game, even if they are out of bowl contention. Their paychecks depend on that, so there isn't any real motivation to season a guy up for next year, since their job could be gone by then.
With Brewer back, he's the guy. You have to play him. If he gets hurt again, I would have no issue with Lawson taking over and getting experience, especially if the bowl streak is over.
That's where I am.
Brewer is #1 as long as he lasts.
Then Lawson, #2 reps in practice and in games.
Honestly, I have no idea what this coaching staff thinks. They had a package of plays for Lawson for OSU...but a few weeks later, he's not ready to play when Motley got hurt against Pitt.
I'd say, you pulled the shirt, make it count. Put a package of plays in for him (5-10 snaps per game). As he progresses (maybe even within the game), expand it a bit. See where it goes.
Won't happen. Not because of the 'scarring for life', but because Brewer gives VT the best opportunity to 'salvage' what is left of the season. Coaching staff simply won't throw up their hands, skip using a seasoned QB who was set up for a big senior year and go with a talented, but very inexperienced QB (and hence a very limited/predictable playbook...yes, Brewer's playbook should be much less predictable than the last 5 games...fingers crossed). Now if Brewer got hurt again, who knows...
Won't happen. They are going to play Brewer to try and keep the bowl streak alive.
I feel this would only happen if Whit had guaranteed Frank that he will be the coach next season regardless of what happens the rest of this season. Then Frank may put all his chips in one basket, but I still highly doubt it.
Remember back when we would have multiple games a season where we would have a comfortable enough lead in the 4th quarter to put the back up QB in?
I would hope this can still happen for the BC game (they have been really affected by injury).
Aaaaand maybe loluva.
Yeah, maybe when the Hokies kick that FG to make it 3-0 in garbage time, Lawson can get him some burn.
Remember back when we just used to win more often than not?
Obama's first term in office
Thanks, Obama...
Slide coincides with the Republican takeover of congress...I mean if we are getting political and all ;-)
Dem takeover of Va governor.
Outside of McDonnell from 2010-2014, Dems have had the governor spot back to 2002 (Warner, Kaine, McAullife).
I think that's when the slide started.
Andy Bitter took over as a beat writer in 2011. I rest my case.
Speaking of Andy, did he disappear from here? I haven't seen a post in
awhile...or maybe just missed them.
Maybe he's just 'bitter' about the season like the rest of us
Did I ask something unreasonable?
EDIT: Just read the post...sorry for bringing that back up...I wasn't
expecting that at all...
http://www.thekeyplay.com/content/2015/september/25/bitter
Thanks!! Was on vacation that week and missed everything.
This thread explains all: http://www.thekeyplay.com/content/2015/september/25/bitter
Looks like I'm drinking....
Not good when it's not even noon on a Tuesday.
ass wipe
What's a comfortable lead? That's an unfamiliar concept.
Having more points than the other team when the clock hits 0:00 in the 4th quarter.
That's also called a "win".
It's sort of a 50-50 kind of thing, if you can manage to keep all the games within one score.
You mean back in weeks two and three?
(Just joking around. I'm not saying this season is any better than the general consensus.)
I would like to think the best interest of the program will be considered. Even if Lawson doesn't get game reps, we can hope Brewer balls out and we make a bowl. In that scenario at least Lawson will benefit from the extra practices leading up to the bowl game.
I do question why the shirt was burned given how little we have seen of him. My only guess is that somewhere along the line the plan must have changed.... at least I hope this wasn't the plan all along.
To be perfectly and painfully honest...95% of me wants to see us crash and burn (as horribly painful as that sounds) the rest of the season so Whit has a genuine reason to gently push old man Beams out the door. I'm just as big of a CFB supporter as anyone, but the time HAS come, the ship HAS sailed. Let's get this painful and gut wrenching process over with ASAP. It's in the team's best interest.
Sorry, I can never wish for a loss.
I know it sounds asinine, and I hate losing, but really in the long run it would be better. If we somehow become bowl eligible, beat LOLUVA and win our bowl game, then guess who gets another ride next year? Beamer and Co. This program cannot stay where it is at and hope to become relevant in the near future (if ever again). Again, it's more painful and agonizing, but in the long run it is the better route.
yeah I can't handle a loss...I wanted the Stinespring era to end soooo badly that I was hoping for us to beat Rutgers, but just barely, on the backs of our defense and with a visibly listless offensive performance. I was shocked and completely beside myself to get exactly what I wanted. I never wish for the Hokies to lose (loose for you FSU fans)...ever but I don't mind seeing them win really ugly games that make the coaches look bad if I think it will lead to some changes...
Sigh. And then we got Loeffler
Yeah, we got lucky there.
Coulda got somebody didn't know what they were doing.
Doesn't sound like it.
This one comment doesn't sound like it at all, but for quite some time now when friends/acquaintances have called for Beamer to step down I've been the voice saying no, be patient. It's just I can't take it any more....
I think you put Brewer in, as he gives VT the best chance of winning games.
I also think you try and expand Lawson's playing time to include a few series, if you can do it without losing.
I don't think he's fragile, but I also don't see a point in setting him up to fail. I've got to trust that Loeffler knows something about football, and assessing players.
I think if Lawson (or Motley for that matter) ever comes into the game, he needs to throw the ball. I'm tired of bringing in a second QB just for running/wildcat/option. If there's no threat of pass, the other team is going to catch on.
You're not a fan of next year's plan to run only the wildcat with Motley and then bring in Lawson for the QB draw? We can catch them off guard when Trevon sweeps.
2016 Hokies to playoffs confirmed
I think you need to just start prepping Lawson to be the #2 guy. He needs the back-up Reps.
If Brewer goes down again, everything is pretty much bonered anyway - that's when you start getting Lawson the experience.
I could very easily see Lawson get more reps this week.. doesn't mean it will turn into game time snaps but.
A loss vs Duke and a loss vs BC and as a 3-6 VT team I ride Lawson train for the rest of the year. If he is able to somehow win GT UNC and UVA then great, but game reps in ACC competitions isn't the worst thing either.
Brewer must start. However, Lawson must be given meaningful snaps. He is the future (not Motley). It would be very disappointing to have burned a year of eligibility with the minimal playing time he has seen thus far.
I agree. Also, it's sort of stupid to send him in for one play (a handoff?). Send him in for a series. Let him throw it.
I sort of wish we had just bit the bullet and played Lawson after Brewer went down. Hindsight is 20/20, but it seems like our record would have been about the same
I really don't have a clue why people keep assuming that Lawson is a hands down starter next year. When we have put him in (limited times) he has looked like he is not ready. His passes have been very inaccurate. Against Pitt, his long bomb was 10 yards past the receiver. Earlier this year, he threw three straight passes into the ground.
I think Motley has a good shot at beating him out to be the guy next year. Just like he beat him out to be the backup this year.
I think people assume that with his natural talent, he will eventually surpass Motley with practice time and more reps. That makes sense to me as Lawson probably has more raw talent. Although, I can see Motley competing with Lawson for the job next year.
Motley's in his 3rd year with the program. Lawson showed up in August. Motley should be better right now. Conversely Lawson was highly rated coming out of high school while Motley was a long shot to stick at QB. Lawson should surpass Motley in time.
Also, once you've made the decision to burn Lawson's redshirt, you should probably look for opportunities to get him playing time.
Because it was supposed to be Ford until he left, because Lawson got recruited.
Because if Loeffler is thinking long term, he wants to change QBs as few times as possible. This year was supposed to be the first time that he's had the same starting QB two seasons in a row. Logan in 2013, Brewer in 2014-2015, projecting Lawson in 2017-2018 (although 2018 isn't guaranteed), leaving the question mark in 2016 -- did he really want to go through 4 QBs in 5 years, or stick with 3?
Because Motley had career backup stamped all over him until Brewer's collarbone snapped.
I think after a few drives he would settle in and be more accurate.
THIS. There aren't many quarterbacks either in the NCAA or NFL that could come in cold off the bench and just start slinging it effectively, especially not one's that have yet to be given the chance to play.
Funny how we use the "need to get in a rhythm" argument in support of Trevon, but it doesn't come into play for Lawson. Just look at how comfortable Motley got after having a few drives in week two.
Motley has a couple years with the playbook and some experience with College speed, has taken snaps from this snapper in lots of practices.
Lawson needs more than a couple series. It's quite clear.
He'll do fine, spring practices then August practices. He only had 20 practices at Q-3 this fall. He's a good athlete but, it wasn't enough to just rely on his very good athleticism. He needs the practice too.
Agreed, but mostly talking about next year's potential. I think we all understand this year that he won't be better than Motley. I think the argument right now is whether five games behind center would pay dividends next year.
Totally agree. Everyone writes him off as not ready after he throws a couple into the dirt. I get that he doesn't fully know the playbook but he capable of throwing the ball.
I am not writing him off, just saying that this year hands down he is not the best option.
He's definitely not the best option. The question for me is how many more games would we win with just Brewer vs just Lawson, or a combination of Brewer/Lawson, or Motley/Lawson.
If we only win 1 extra game with just Brewer, I would rather get game experience for Lawson because that experience might lead to an extra win next year. Considering we still have a chance to win the National Championship next year, I'd rather have that win next year.
Would also be good to have some game film for Lawson to study himself.
It wasn't that long ago that we(as a fanbase) were on here saying that EVERY GAME MATTERS. If we believe this then we need to play Brewer, not only because he is the best QB we have, but I think it sends a message to the locker room that indeed, the rest of the games this year matter.. and also that if you bust your ass the entire offseason to improve (as Brewer did, at least according to Lefty) that the coaches will play you when you're able to go
I agree, Brewer must start. Did not mean that Lawson should start ahead of Brewer. However, there must be 'meaningful' planned snaps for Lawson during each game.
At this point the decision is easy in my opinion. Play whoever gives you the best chance of winning.
We need to do everything we can to win every game going forward. That is what I want. I would think that Lefty could figure out a way for Lawson's strengths to help us win but if not, then he holds a clipboard.
There is no way Lawson is worse than Motley. Lawson has no INT this year. He just needs to learn the playbook better so he knws where to throw the ball.
There IS a way. I hope we don't have to have hard evidence to prove it either.
lol no ints in what 10 pass attempts? 3 completions. and of the incompletions, NO ONE was catching them defense or offense they were all in the dirt.
You mean he was being smart with the ball and making sure that the defense didn't have an opening... ;)
I'll echo what I've seen above. Brewer is our best quarterback. But Lawson needs to get some quality live reps for the future, especially now since his redshirt is gone. Motley needs some reps, too, though. Unless we get leads in games, I think the quality reps for Lawson and Motley will be hard to come by.
It is amazing how bad ideas flourish when a team is struggling - Lawson is not ready and will not be ready this year at any point - all he has are the tools but needs some major blueprints. Coach MUST see the writing on the wall. He has every right to do all he can to eek out as many wins as he can.
Of the little things left I am looking forward to this season, seeing Lawson play, and actually play by getting worthwhile reps and experience, is #1 for me.
Prepare to root for whatever is #2 on your list.
with our incompetent coaches, you're probably right
Unless you have given up completely on winning any remaining games this season, no competent coach would decide Lawson is #1 QB. No way ,he's not ready. You can see that from the limited snaps he's taken with the very small playbook he now has.
Let him get some practice snaps in garbage time and work on understanding his receivers for a year. A QB he probably will be but, tne second coming he is not.
I think he's pretty good, but you're right, he's clearly not ready.
There's no point to getting him pummeled just so he can experience pain.
I don't know where you see where I said he should be the #1 QB.... all I said is he should get some worthwhile reps to gain experience.
I ain't rootin' for crap. ;)
Nice.....
Good catch.
These coaches are playing for their jobs, you don't play for the future in this case, you play for now. Brewer gives us the best chance of winning now, so you play him.
I wish they would coach for the bigger picture. Always been a fan of the long game. Playing Lawson would be our extremely poor man's version of "Suck for Luck".
Which makes not having Rogers and McMillan in on a 3 rd a 1 all the more frustrating to me as a fan.
Indeed. I am of the opinion that Sam should be in on every third down. If you need a power run, he's a good blocker. If you have to pass, he's been pretty good in pass pro, and he can catch the ball after he leaks out under the defense. Kid is truly a Swiss army knife for our offense, and when converting critical downs, he needs to be out there.
you'e crazy.. you don't want Trey's 1st carry in the game to be a simple dive play on a crucial 3rd and 1
/S
talk about setting a kid/player up for failure.
Of course not! We have personnel plays that must be called. Trey's number came up and the script said that's the play that must be called.
We should have been able to fake a jet sweep to get that yard!
They are definitely coaching for their jobs at the moment I think this next 3 game stretch will determine it one way or another. We have two away games with teams we tend to struggle with a bit and a home game against a fairly impressive Duke squad. I hope they throw in Lawson if (statistically speaking) the season is a lost cause after this stretch. They're going to fight to keep the bowl streak alive and to beat UVa. It's really the only feather left in their collective cap, but I hope we didn't waste an entire year of eligibility on the small amount of time Lawson got to play. That in itself is poor management.
serious question. and I thought about starting a new forum for it maybe someone else will.
but do you think Lawson is a program altering QB? do you think he can come in and set the world on fire next year? he will have ALOT of talent around him. can he propel us back into the national spotlight? could he resurrect beamers end story?
at this point I have not seen anything to make me believe that is the case. im hoping its in there somewhere. it all starts and ends with the QB. a great QB can overcome a lot of short comings in other areas and be the difference between an avg team and a really good team. so much of the hype surrounds Lawson. I really hope he can live up to it and then some.
I think it's way too early to make that call.
From the looks of it, he's really not ready to be effective in VT's offense.
I'm willing to trust in Loeffler to know if he's ready, but I would like to see him run some series before the end of the year.
100% would like to see him get in the game more. Let the kid sling that thing around a little bit. "Big time players make big time plays"
I think that it's a possibility that Lawson is the next Tyrod. He's got the skill set. However, he needs to develop. And I think a lot of us are forgetting that we have Josh Jackson coming in next year as the #1 QB in Michigan. I'm not sure how much of an impact that will have next year (my guess is not much, but you never know), but if we are going to commit to Lawson as the future, we better do it soon, before Jackson comes in and surprises us and steals the spotlight from Dwayne.
If FR Jackson is better than SO Lawson, we damn well better start Jackson next year.
For anyone who is really bored, here is Jackson's State Championship Game:
https://www.youtube.com/watch?v=9RIDj9R51CQ
Apparently we didnt hold any kind of a QB Combine before the season started to see where each QB stood at. So hold one today and see who's the best.
Start Lawson to prepare for next year? Nope. Beamer needs to win as many games as possible this year. He cannot sacrifice this season for what may be next year. That said, I think it would be good to play him as much as possible in garbage time during games. But this Duke game will probably be close and won't have garbage time at the end.