While there are a bunch of threads discussing Beamer potentially leaving (as well as other coaches being fired/leaving), Pete Thamel's take is the most prominent MSM discussion of it that I've seen.
Virginia Tech: 80% chance of opening
Tech won't have the advantage of an early jump at exploring the market that its competitors - mainly Miami and Maryland - already have. The top name here will be Arizona's Rich Rodriguez, who has a long-standing relationship with Babcock as they overlapped at West Virginia in the early 2000s. (Babcock was the Executive Director for Development for much of Rodriguez's coaching tenure at WVU from 2001 to 2007). The next best name here is Justin Fuente, a no-nonsense personality who would mesh well in low-key Blacksburg. Two years ago, defensive coordinator Bud Foster would have had a much better shot. Foster's biggest impact on the job may be making it difficult for Babcock to hire a defensive-minded coach, as there's few better than Foster.
Names: Rich Rodriguez, Justin Fuente, Tom Herman, Matt Wells, Matt Campbell and Matt Rhule.
Worth noting: Thamel's "top tier" is Miami, USC, and VT (with the caveat that "A lot of college officials consider Virginia Tech the better job"). The "middle tier" is Maryland, USCe, loluva, and lolwvu.
Comments
Also, too funny for me to not post:
Weird that Pep Hamilton is listed as an loluva candidate and not one for VT.
Oh man Greg Schiano at UVA would be an absolute joy to watch.
Keep chopping
The VT candidates are all current head coaches right? Hamilton hasn't been a HC yet, he's currently the OC of the Colts. So their guesstimations may be based on 1) VT going after a current HC 2) UVA being likely to promote a coordinator and 2) UVA's history of hiring NFL coaches (Groh).
Oh yeah, you're absolutely right there. I thought thought it was peculiar that he's listed for someone else when he was a VT candidate (for a lesser position, of course) before, since it's a pretty unscientific column.
Hamilton and Bloomgren have Stanford connections, thus, are connected to UVA to complete the illusion of academic rigor for student-athletes.
Growing up with former UVA football and lacrosse players, I say confidently that in "academic rigor for student-athletes", UVA and UNC are "peer institutions".
I know LOLUVA is LOLUVA but the thought of Pep Hamilton as the HC would really make a lot of things more interesting in Virginia and in the ACC. I really think Pep is better at the college level and could quickly get UVA on the right track if Oliver stays out of the way.
I highly expect LOLUVA to screw this up and leave a lot of people scratching their heads, which would be entertaining to watch.
You know, I have talked to some big UVA fans I know, and a lot of them seem to think that London is back again next year. Seems crazy, but the thought is that he has only one year left on his contract, and that their AD and Oliver will be on the way out soon. Thought is that nobody wants to work with those two, so they might as well ride this thing out with London and hope for wholesale turnover after 2016.
But but but... Damn if they do that they are dumb. This offseason is setting up for a lot of quality coaches moving around. I'd rather get into it now then get stuck next year with the leftovers like Brady Hoke..
A Thought just popped into my head... Likely not an option but would UVA risk the publicity and go after Sarkisian on his road to redemption or are they too high and mighty. I mean, I believe he gets a second chance and the low expectations of UVA in the ACC could let him hide out for a while.
Seems incredibly dumb to me too. I agree with basically everything the SI article says about UVA. London should've been gone last year. But apparently London is the AD's and Oliver's guy, and not a lot of big coaching names on the outside would want to work for those guys allegedly, given the overall ineptitude of the program and meddling.
I think the article is spot on in saying hiring Mack Brown would be the most UVA thing ever. Get a name that seems like you are serious about football, but in reality is doing nothing about getting serious at all. As soon as Littlepage and Oliver are out, Mack would be gone as well. And it would be another 2-3 years tops that they have absolutely squandered in football futility.
One more year of Mike London? Please!
FOUR MORE YEARS! FOUR MORE YEARS! FOUR MORE YEARS! FOUR MORE YEARS! FOUR MORE YEARS! FOUR MORE YEARS! FOUR MORE YEARS! FOUR MORE YEARS! FOUR MORE YEARS! FOUR MORE YEARS!
Hear, hear!!
Good grief!! and to think that we complained about Weaver. It could have been so much worse with the likes of Harry and Lloyd in charge. And thank the football Gods for Whit at this point.
nice
The thing that just confounds me is why they continue to be so bereft of any idea on how to run a football program, when they have it figured out in pretty much every other sport. They figured out basketball and baseball, and the other olympic sports have always been strong. It's just insane that an athletic department could be so strong overall and so absolutely terrible with the #1 cash cow revenue sport.
I think a lot of it has to do with the culture at UVA. A lot of the locals with no connections to the school yet are big "fans" obviously want a strong football team. But I really don't think the administration nor majority of the student body seriously give a damn about football.
I don't agree with this statement. I grew up in Charlottesville in a family with 0 connections to UVa and I had several friends, some of whom had connections and some of whom didn't, and UVa football was never pressed to the forefront of anything. Not even in the 90's when they were actually pretty good. Football isn't important to people in and around Charlottesville. Not at all like it is in Blacksburg. The local "fans" are about as casual as fans get. They don't care if the football team is strong or not. In fact, most of the locals probably prefer that the team isn't strong because Charlottesville has a traffic problem and the fewer people who care to travel into town for games, the better.
I would agree with that if by local you strictly mean in the Charlottesville area. Where I grew up, about an hour and a half southwest of there, there are tons of local UVA football fans. I'm not sure if they are more UVA fans or VT haters, but they love UVA football. It is a very strange fan dynamic that I haven't quite figured out. And 99% percent of these people have zero connection to either university.
haha sounds like my neck of the woods. Live in city with pretty good 1AA football team but more UVA fans and VT. There is a little dinner that has about 20 old farts come in each Sunday that are spilit 50% UVA and 50% VT and all they do is trash talk over breakfast.
Then a local radio station has a yearly song remake contest that fans can make fun of UVA or VT best remake wins. Some of the songs parodies are actually funny.
I completely agree. I grew up in the area and far and wide every local with a GED thinks that he's a Cavalier. The student body on the other hand is meh on football, and damn near so on athletics in general.
The student body culture at UVA is one of the reasons I became a Hokie.
I mean, it makes me happy to see this, but at the same time I don't know what constitutes "a lot of college officials" and I don't really know how much water this theory holds. I like to think the VT job is a top job opportunity but when I take my O&M glasses off for a minute I see plenty of other jobs around the country that would be more attractive to certain coaches for various reasons...
I'm feeling the opposite. Impulsively, I would rank us around 4th at the moment. Behind USC, Miami, and USCe. But anytime I actually think about it critically, I see us as a clear-cut second. Miles ahead of Miami (whose only + is location and history) and a hair above USCe who has been an SEC also-ran under everyone except for Spurrier and a job that includes a decent sized-rebuild. I think we're easily second as long as UGA, Texas, or Auburn unexpectedly open up.
Agreed. I know a lot of factors go into how attractive a job is but at the end of the day money is always going to be the most influential one, and if I'm not mistaken (which I could be) all 3 of those schools can offer more than we can.
Yep.... just like how we'd never hire a $2.5M per year head coach in basketball while also paying the salaries of 2 previous coaches.
Money will not be a limiting factor when it comes to our coaching search.
That's all good and well but the money trail has to stop somewhere. Obviously there was more money coming in for the Buzz hire than most of us realized but we can't pretend that our pockets are overflowing. The only way your statement could logically hold water is if we had an unending trail of cash. I hope money doesn't limit our hiring potential or the attractiveness of the job but to pretend it can't happen is just silly.
maybe frank makes a sizeable contribution?
If you honestly think it will stop with football, then we have nothing more to discuss. It would be a REALLY stupid financial decision to limit ourselves in the ONE sport that makes us money. If you're going to go big in a sport that loses us money you go just as big if not bigger in the sport through which everything is funded.
As I said before... Money will not be an issue with our coaching search. I agree that the money trail ends somewhere, but for us, it can't end at football.
Sure I agree for the most part. I think we'll certainly pony out more for a FB coach than the BB coach but if a big name like Chip Kelly became available lets not think for second that we could offer more money than somebody like a USCe who was shelling our over 4 mil for Spurrier. Basically money becomes an issue when we are in competition (which there is a lot of right now) with other schools who have the ability to pay more than us.
On a side note I found the following link while looking up that figure and found it interesting as well...
http://sports.usatoday.com/ncaa/salaries/football/assistant
did you click on the red explanation too? not trying to be a dick...
so in all reality he makes $569,500 k a year which would put him 44th on that list.. just happens that this bonus/incentive is happening this year.
Lol yea, my comment was about Head Coaches pay. I just posted the link at the end because I thought it was interesting.
definitely is interesting to look around and see who is getting paid what.
THIS.
Let Whit worry about the money
I mean yea but isn't that kind of the point of the site. We all come here to discuss hokie sports and our opinions in relationship to hokie sports even though our discussion has no real impact on the program. Or does it...
The "how much our opinions matter to the program" scale:
0 (Doesn't matter)
1
2 <~ Our opinion goes right about here.
3
4 < ~ Opinion of top donors goes here.
5 (Actually matters)
VT ranks 42nd of the 54 public Power 5 schools in athletic revenues and likely the bottom 3rd of Power 5 schools overall. If money isn't a rate limiting factor in a head coach search, then it will have to be elsewhere in the athletic program.
In a weird, backwards sort of way I almost consider VT first right now because whoever USC hires is probably going to be so out of our league our above or paygrade that they probably won't even be in the group of people we consider for the job.
I think VT is a top 30 job, and I find that pretty tough to disagree with You have tier 1b facilities (not Oregon level, but still super nice), a passionate fan base, in a state that is top 5-10 in high school football, and a new AD who is willing to open up the checkbook. ACC is a good enough conference to make the playoff, but not as tough as the SEC. The major challenge is there are so many P5 programs in such a (relatively) small radius, all competing for the same recruits.
Here's the original context that the quote is taken from, which makes more sense.
USC-w is clearly the best job out there. If Auburn and/or Georgia open up, those are right behind.
After that when you look at VT, Miami, USC-e (and potentially Arkansas) and even UVA & UMd (and probably Rutgers) and they all have their strengths and weaknesses and, like recruiting, it could boil down to intangibles that could differ with each potential candidate.
Then there are the one or two jobs that aren't really on the radar but could (and generally do) open up unexpectedly like, say, UCLA or Notre Dame.
Depending upon how things play out and what potential hires are looking for...if the VT job opens, it could be viewed as the 2nd or 3rd best job available or the 7th or 8th best available. And like many things, the truth will likely end up in the middle.
So Cal is higher prestige and more money, but the job will have extremely high expectations. At VT you will get paid less but there is also less pressure and less expectations. And if the past 4 seasons have shown, rabid fan support. Even when the team is horrible the stadium is still full.
really?
Fans have been chirping about that empty trophy case for years. Fans weren't happy with 10 win seasons because they weren't good enough. I don't think you can say the pressure and expectations are lower for VT than they are for Cal. That's just silly.
I think it's more born out of the fact that USC has a Miami mentality, that the team should be in the top-5 at all times and contending for titles. At VT, currently, we would be pretty happy with contending for the ACC title, given our past few years. We'd likely be pretty content to give the new coach at least a recruiting cycle (3-4 years) to get his players and system working at a high level. But at USC, as soon as you lose a game, you get slammed as a failure. A lot of the "top" jobs are like that. I think the VT fan base, while not infinitely patient, is smart enough to understand that quality change takes time.
I agree with this. I've always thought USC is sort of Miami-west. Program with historical success in a pro-sports town, except no pro football means USC football is under even more scrutiny. Lots of pressure, lots of worry with agents and players intermingling with the flashy Hollywood atmosphere. High risk job, but also very high reward when you can get it rolling. I will say that USC probably has much more football support from their administration and an overall better fanbase than Miami.
As much of the media has mentioned, USC needs to get away from the nostalgia of the Pete Carroll-era and start fresh. Too many expectations of hiring within that coaching tree (Kiffin, Sark) and picking up where they left off. Completely agree that expectations will be much more reasonable of a coach at VT. I definitely see us as a highly attractive job to top coaching candidates for all the reasons many have mentioned, possibly the top overall job unless something else comes open.
yeah I totally dead-headed that. I saw "So Cal" and thought "So, Cal...." and I was thinking of the Cal Bears, not USCw. My b.
USC fans are entitled. If they aren't in the Rose Bowl every year and finishing in the Top 10 in the polls the season was a disaster.
Everyone seemed to be happy with 10 win seasons. That's why they lasted so long. Even if 10 wins and a BCS was the ceiling, there was no push to take the next step and get back to the NC. The talent was there. It took a long time for people to finally accept that the offense was holding the team back from taking the next step to Elite status. But change came too little too late.
The problem with Southern Cal is that from a managerial standpoint is an absolute 100% disaster right now. I almost expect the issues they have at AD to drive down the short term attractiveness of that position because there's a very good chance you'd be walking into a position where your boss is fired within a season or 2, and usually when that happens, the coaches of football and/or basketball go with it.
I've been reading a lot recently, and people are not mincing words. If and when we throw our hat in the coaching ring this winter, it is very likely we'll be the top job out there, when you factor in everything. We have the proximity to a recruiting hotbed, we have the executive stability, we have the top notch facilities, we have the buy in from the entire athletic department for the program, we have a rabid, dedicated fanbase, we're arguably the strongest football program in the mid-Atlantic seaboard with no real peer, we're widely regarded as a top tier program in our own Power 5 conference, and we're in a division that is set up for a coach to succeed here. Of course, a Texas could enter the fold and easily leap us, but from the jobs that are out there right now, there aren't many, if any, who can check off that many important boxes to a coach looking to move up.
All good points and I agree with them. But, in today's world coaches are more mercenary than coach. They are going to be saying "SHOW ME THE MONEY." Is money everything to everyone? No. I'm just saying if USC hands Fuente a blank check, plus the history, plus the recruiting, plus the location, plus a fat buyout, plus massaging his ego that he can be the next Pete Carroll and lead USC back to the promised land, it would be hard to pass up.
Thing is, I believe we're going to be in a position to "show me the money" to a coach as well... I really think our salary range (and rip me all you want for this, but I nailed Buzz's salary and was nearly mocked off here when I suggested it) will be in the $4.5-$6M range, depending on who we can bring in.
If that's the case then VT is the best job and should be able to get anyone they want. Other big time programs have backed up the truck (Michigan for Harbaugh) but I'm just in wait and see mode if VT will also.
I agree with you in principle, but 4.5-6 million? I don't see how VT could possibly afford that. Sure, we'll be able to back up the Brinks truck to an extent. The lack of buyouts (Foster, if we don't retain him, is the only coach on staff with any sort of buyout obligations) will definitely enable us to open the checkbook wider than many others. But I just don't see VT as the kind of university that can afford to pay SEC money for a head coach. I can't see us paying more than $3-4M, personally, and even that might be a stretch. If we are going to pay mega-bucks for a new coach, I really hope that a lot of it is incentive-driven. I don't mind paying top dollar for great performance, but the prospect of being on the hook for a huge contract while still getting mediocre results (think Kirk Ferentz pre-2015) frigtens the crap outta me.
I'm with you here. Whit could very well surprise us all though. I do expect to see an incentive heavy contract with graduated pay scales. I think Buzz has something similar, right?
Are you talking 6 millions base??
If it could bring us a dream coach, yes.
If you could get a Gary Patterson, Chip Kelly, Art Briles, or any other elite coach, you'd make that money back and then some with the revenue it would bring in, from the games we would be invited to play, to the sponsors it would bring in to the additional fundraising it would create to the fans that would pack in the stadiums. Short term pain for long term gain.
Its time to go big
I don't see VT becoming the third highest paid HC job in the country. Whit has made comments in the past about spending more year but not going overboard with that. I'm with you at 4 million and change maybe 4.75 if it's loaded with incentive pay, but never 6 million base.
I think we could get Chip Kelly at $4-$4.75 Million if he happened to be let go from Philly. Eagles I believe would be on the hook for what his new VT contract didn't offset from his old deal ($6.5 mil per year deal for two more years, so $1.75-$2.5 mil per year still from Philly). The big question would be if we could boost donations and fundraising in that time to up his salary and keep him long-term. Definitely a long shot here, but would be interesting if the Eagles decide to part ways after this year. I know USCw will open up the checkbook for him, but he's originally an East Coast guy, and would he want to go up against Oregon?
I think a 4.5-6 million salary for the HC and all of his staff might be realistic, but no way does Tech pay that just for the HC.
I think you need to consider the salary range of the entire new staff. I could see us spending $2-3 mil for a head coach, then $1-2 mil on each coordinator. I don't see us spending $5 mil on a head coach though.
I think $3.5M is our low end for a head coach salary. I think you're right and the salary range for the head coach and 2 Coordinators will probably be around $5.5-6.5M if we have to stretch to get the right guy.
I think the realistic salary range we'll be paying for the next head coach is around $4-5M, with upwards of $750k to $1M being available for each of the coordinators, depending on pedigree.
just saw miami's site (essentially their TKP just way worse) and they were predicting they'd invest 2.5-3 M
No surprise. Miami is as stingy as any football program
some early info said that they paid him $5-6 mil for him to leave/be fired now instead of waiting until the end of the season where it would have been $3-4 mil.
seems to me they went the wrong way about this but its Miami.. they're special
That seems like a short-sighted approach to me, as well, unless they think that they can get an advantage in roping in their next head coach before the competition can catch up.
yeah.. but they do have to worry about their 11th ranked class for 2016 and their super early #2 ranked class for 2017 so maybe an early hire will help those stay the course.
Time to steal more Miami commits!
So according to this post, if my logic is correct, the VT job (if opened) is the best one in the country.
If this guy is correct, that speaks volumes about when.
I assume he has USCw as the best. Since it most definitely is.
LOL UVA.....that's all
PLEASE. PLEASE. PLEASE.
MURRAY STATE PIPELINE PLEASE
Agree. Fuente would be a fantastic fit. Consider what he has done in his limited time at Memphis. Not counting the '15 class, UM hasn't signed a 4* (per Rivals) since the '10 class. AND their current QB was a 3*. Recently saw a great article (can't remember the site) on his offensive mindset which included explanations with passing play diagrams. He wants playmakers in space and creates mismatches via spacing by dictating what the D does, instead of the other way around.
This man would turn Lawson into a S.T.A.R. with the weapons we currently have on the outside, combined with the threat of the running game. While I am a Memphis alum (born, raised and live locally, though) and am thrilled that the Tigers are actually fielding a D1 team now, seeing him take the reigns in the 'Burg would be super.
Not to mention, dude has taken a perennial doormat that won 5 TOTAL games from 09-11, took over in '12 and went 4-8, 3-9, 10-3, and this year is 7-0 and is tied for 2nd with TCU for the nation's current longest (FBS) win streak (aOSU #1) AND he's not even 40...PERFECT fit for the Hokies.
Sign
This
Dude
UP!
#JustinTime4VT !
JustinTime.
Nice
I'm also a Fuente proponent
He's tops on my list.....if that matters at all
Man, would people really consider Kansas State bottom tier though?
Yeah, that stuck out to me as well. For everyone's convenience, here was a portion of Thamel's blurb on K State:
I didn't realize how small Manhattan and the surrounding area is.
Manhattan-Junction City KS had an estimated population of 134,804 in 2014.
Blacksburg-Christiansburg-Radford had a population of 162,958 in the 2010 census, and that's not including Roanoke's 300k people.
And that's a good sized city for the overall state of Kansas.
Blacksburg / Chrisitansburg area is 100 times nicer than Manhattan / Junction City. Manhattan itself is ok but Junction city is dump. I haven't been to Blacksburg since 2009 I think and it was better then than Manhattan/Junction City are now. Plus Roanoke isn't that far off and KCMO (which is an awesome city is about 2 hours away). IMO Lawarence, KS is a better location than Manhattan.
After reading that, KState has got themselves into an even bigger mess than we have. At least Frank isn't publicly calling for Shane to get the job.
Granted, he did say he preferred if the job went to someone in-house. (no mention of if he preferred Shane or Bud though)
The idea of handing the reins over to someone who hasn't been at least a coordinator is a bit laughable. I don't think Shane is a candidate for the VT HC job after Frank.
Technically he was Special Teams Coordinator at USCe.
Here's your obligatory "But it worked for Clemson!" post.
But it worked for Clemson!
.....like Dabo Swinney?
There is no correct prototype. Coastal Carolina's guy used to be a CEO.
Hey, did you know that Mike London used to be a cop?
Swinney was a different situation though- he took over as an interim coach halfway through the season, which allowed Clemson the opportunity to evaluate him before really committing to him. He essentially had a 7-game audition and made the most of it.
If Frank wanted Shane to takeover, the best chance he could have given him would have been to retire several weeks ago (a la Spurrier) and allow Shane to coach the rest of the season. If that happened and Shane led the team to a winning record, there would be some support out there for him to be retained as the HC going forward. As things stand now though, I really, really don't foresee Whit handing over the keys to an upper tier P5 program to someone without prior HC/OC/DC experience.
All true statements. There are always exceptions to the rule. I don't believe Shane is one of them.
I'd give the job to Foster in a heartbeat over Shane.
I agree on Shane or anyone currently on staff. But, it can be successful. Urban Meyer has never been a college coordinator.
It's true that Urban was not a coordinater before becoming a head coach, but he also didn't go straight from position coach to HC of a P5 program. He proved himself at two mid-major programs (going 39-8 while becoming the first coach of a non-BCS program to win a BCS game) before getting a HC offer from a P5 school. You're right that you don't need to be a coordinator to be successful as a HC but it's a huge gamble and frankly not a gamble that a P5 school (or at least an upper half P5 school) needs to take.
I'm in the 'earlier the better' camp. The faster Beamer announces his retirement the faster we can meet with potential top hires, especially if we really are one of the most attractive openings in the country.
But, we can't actually hire someone until after they finish their season. No head coach is gonna announce he is leaving before his last game. Announcing that Beamer is retiring a month+ before a new coach is hired gives other schools way more time to try and pull our recruits away. I would have beamer announce after the UVA game and let the new coach announcement happen ~ 1 week later. Doesn't mean we can't look for a coach in the meantime.
The only thought about this is VT's incoming class isn't really all that good. You see a ton of turnover when you have a top 20 recruiting class because other schools will be chomping at the bit to maybe get some to flip Some kids will stay some will go, the big point is hopefully whoever gets the HC job can also sway maybe 3-5 recruits to flip to VT.. kinda like what Buzz did for B-Ball.
Our WR recruits are really good. And we have almost zero depth behind Ford and Phillips. We need all 4 to sign with us next year. 3 of the 4 are planning on coming in the spring as well, so they should actually contribute next year.
agree 100% which is why I think most if not all would stay even if there was a coaching change.
This time last year our recruiting class wasn't good either Lawson wasn't on the radar, Clark was committed to South Carolina and Settle had yet to announce
The heavy rumor is that Beamer will announce it next Monday. There are a lot of advantages to that. It's a bye-week, so Beamer and staff have a few days to handle the questions from the retirement that they normally wouldn't have with their regimented schedule. It also preps VT for one last ESPN Thursday night game....cue the montage. Then one last home game. And of course, one last UVA game. It may bring the team together over the final three games.
We could use those four weeks to do the back channel work necessary to gauge interest and probably hold informal interviews (phone or skype). You are right, we won't get a coach until their seasons are done, but the day after their last game you have your #1 on campus to see the facilities and show his wife the real estate.
At this point, it seems imminent.
Assuming Whit has his mind close to made up, the back channeling should already be in progress.
Any sources for the rumor? That's pretty big if true.
Rumor aka people on one of the other forums keep saying it probably
If it had sources, it wouldn't be a rumor.
UF announced they would part ways with Will Muschamp midseason last year, allowed him to coach the remainder of the season, and even announced his replacement before UF's bowl game. From an outsider looking in, it appeared to be handled very professionally.
I realize Muschamp isn't exactly Frank Beamer, but I think it could still be executed tastefully.
So if we here an offensive-minded head coach, does Bud Foster stick around or actually look elsewhere this time?
I think it may depend on the hire. My gut is telling me he would start shopping other options... He is looking to be a HC somewhere eventually.
I don't think he is
I want to believe
honestly I think at this point in his career its kind of Blacksburg or retire for him. he could be a DC anywhere he wants which almost which is why I think VT will likely retain him if he wants. because there isn't a DC a coach can bring on with him that is going to be better than Bud. I don't think he has any interest anymore from outside to be a head coach. that ship has sailed for him he was to picky and missed his shot.
I'm not so sure about that... He almost left for A&M this year.
very true. im curious as to what his motivation is at this point in his career. its been a very trying year for him this year. the only thing left for him to do outside of be a head coach is win a ship. how important is that to him to have to start all over I guess we will see. I guess its still so hard for me to see him coaching anywhere but VT.
okay you right
When Frank is gone, Bud is gone. 2 years ago Frank could have had his own succession plan which may have included Bud as next HC. His ego and stubbornness is going to cost the whole staff their job.
Do you want to keep him?
Not such an easy answer any longer. Maybe it's time for a change. But we must give the new HC the rope to make that decision. Having Bud in your shadow may not feel so good.
A compromise: Torrian Gray as DC. He deserves a promotion, keeps our best position coach and solid recruiter. Allows Gray to tweak Foster's defense to be his own. Less tenured guy in the room to cause potential imbalance with the new HC.
I still very much want to keep Bud, but I agree that a new head coach needs to be the one to decide that.
Would you have questioned keeping Bud at the start of this season?
I wouldn't let this season be the determining factor on whether or not he is retained, but I do agree that the new head coach and Whit should make that decision together.
This season shouldn't be the decider, but the lack of adaption to running qb's over the past 3-4 years I think has to play into it. He repeatedly stresses execution on the field, but I haven't really seen any adaption of his scheme to his current players. The bear has been figured out, shot, and dismembered on the field.
The bear was not a recent invention just as it was not well executed by us this year (my opinion).
When it comes to defensive scheme innovation, Bud has often been the trendsetter.
He was a major influence in making the 4-3 popular in college again. If you want to talk down about one of his worst seasons here, that's fine.
But some would say we do have poor execution and I'd tend to agree with them
What I want to know is where this idea that Bud can't be a head coach started. If he's got "issues" or "secrets", what's the major difference in being the DC or the HC? If he's here, he's available
Having Bud in your shadow may not feel so good.
Feel good, having Bud lurking in your shadow is damn near the thing of nightmares.
No way. Clean house and don't look back unless a Fiente or Herman want to retain a couple. We don't have a "best" recruiter and haven't for years since Frank canned Cavanaugh.
Stinespring has historically been a great recruiter, and Shane Beamer has been making progress as well.
"great" is kind of a jump here. As compared to other coaches on our staff, yes he has been the top but in comparison to other recruits in our talent pool, he has been consistent and above average but not great!
TG? Well at least when he says hello to their moms.
I'm not going to get into the should or shouldn't he go side of the argument. I'm torn on that one. BUT if this is Beamer's last year, I do hope that they announce it sooner than later in order to get a jump on some of the hot names out there, rather than being stuck with the leftovers after everyone else makes their hires.
I would say that Whit has already put feelers out to certain coaches.
You just call Jimmy Sexton and he tells you which coach you can have.
Love seeing Herman and Fuente on that list but I really hope Whit has RichRod at the bottom. There are a lot better options out there. I'd add Kirby Smart to the list as well. He's no doubt a tough get but you gotta try.
And I'm surprised Thamel would list Miami #1. Don't they have a rep for not really being willing to pay for coaches?Their stadium/fan situation is an embarrassment. And to top it off, the coach there gets huuuuge pressure to win at a national level from its power players. Like they expect to be the U from the 80s after year 1. So its a job with A level expectations with B level tools. I'd have USC as top tier. Followed by us and then Miami in a tier 1 adjace.
I don't disagree with you that Miami has a lot of B-level tools, but their recruiting area is an A++ tool for sure.
I don't think they expect to win year one anymore. they gave golden more time than a lot of U people think they should have. Id say the next coach has atleast 2-4 years to get to an ACC championship.
If you actually read the article the author says the jobs are ranked in Alphabetical order by conference desirability. AKA this doesn't mean that VT is a more desirable job than South Carolina, merely that within their respective conferences VT is one of the more desirable schools in the ACC and South Carolina is a more middling school in terms of desirability in the SEC
Interestingly enough, I was just listening to Russillo and Kanell doing a segment on Miami and Danny Kanell just talked about a lot of what I was referring to. Terrible stadium situation, behind the times facilities, etc etc. They still view themselves as a top tier program but they're behind a lot of schools. We have better facilities, which isn't a shock to us, but I bet that would floor a large chunk Miami supporters. Even with the fertile recruiting ground, that's a lot of stuff to overcome. That's why I wouldn't rank Miami as a high job, certainly not #1. As a coach, you'd have to have a guarantee you'll have security for years to come (not just 3 or 4) and that the university is committed to invest in football facilities. I think Kanell's opinion is shared amongst a lot of other collegiate people (including potential coaches), so we are likely regarded as better job than the U. Which is great for us and I really hope Whit uses that to explore every possible option (ie PLEASE don't call Rich Rod first).
I thought Miami just finished upgrading a bunch of their facilities or was it only the locker room?
Well, that one locker room is the only facility they have.
Wasn't sure, that is why I asked.
ed reed says he is interested in coaching the canes LMBO!
atleast they will have the swag back
I don't think Kirby Smart is a viable option. If you're going to hire a defensive guy as the next HC, you've got one of the best right here in Blacksburg already, and probably won't have to pay him nearly as much as Smart.
Tom Herman
He's pretty high on my list, currently 2nd behind Richt (who may or may not be available).
Edit: Here's a nice piece on Herman from his OC days at OSU.
Richt would be great if we're looking at a guy with HC experience. Even if UGA doesn't boot him, he may want out anyway just to be done with the constant pressure. I'd like to see them look to Herman first, but Richt is definitely a top 2 or 3 guy
I've read the same thing about Bob Stoops
That was a great article
I'm glad to see RR and Fuente as his top two candidates for us. As I survey the landscape of the sport, they're my top two, as well, and they're both offense-side coaches, leaving room for Bud.
I know much less about Fuente's personality than I do about RR, but that's only because RR has been in the spotlight much more than Fuente over the last decade. If he's as no-nonsense as he's being presented, he could be a great hire for us.
Give me Rich Rod. I wanna win games and score a ton of points. Rich Rod does both, and has done it at a higher level than all of the other coaches on this list. Everyone seems to hate him and I don't get it. Why? I want him in Blacksburg so badly
In 13 full years as a D-I head coach he has 4, 10+ win seasons. He has 8 seasons with 8-or-less wins. He's won an outright conference championship exactly once. Hard pass.
Who is your guy?
I don't disagree, but I'll point out that Richrod's record is arguably better than Whit's supposedly great hire at Cincy, Tommy Tuberville.
What does one have to do with the other? The hire has to be judged relative to the school.
Cincinnati plays in a non-P5 league and Whit secured Tuberville (SEC, Big 12 experience) the day after Butch Jones was announced at Tennessee. It wasn't the best hire of all-time, but Whit punched above Cincinnati's weight class, which is all any fan can ask for.
And for what it is worth, I think Tuberville's resume stacks up favorably against Rich Rod given he went 13-0 in the SEC, and has two 10+ and eight 9+ winning seasons in 15 full years.
I think we're in violent agreement on RichRod, but we differ on the wisdom of the Tuberville hire - for Cincy (or anywhere really).
I would argue that Tuberville, like RichRod, has largely underachieved in his head coaching gigs. TWO 10 win seasons in 19 (and soon to be 20) seasons as a head coach (not 15) is certainly not overachieving.
And the guy who largely underachieved and was pushed out at Auburn - and then pretty much the same at Texas Tech (his 3 yrs at TT were slightly worse than Beamer's most recent 3 yrs) -- was on a clear downward trajectory and was precisely in Cincy's weight class but at a power 5 salary. Meanwhile his predecessors did as well or better for less money on guys with an upward trajectory (Mark Dantonio, Brian Kelly, Butch Jones).
I guess I'm saying that Whit went for the once-splashy, but disgruntled and often underachieving, name in Tuberville. So hiring RichRod would not exactly be out of his strike zone.
Logical argument. BUT I wouldn't have Rich Rod any higher than third on my list. You cannot look at what Fuente has done at freaking Memphis of all places and ignore it. Simply an amazing job. Tom Herman also also has done well with his opportunities. No way in hell I put Rich Rod ahead of Fuente. Aside from a shocking BIG BIG name hire it would be hard to put most ahead of JF.
Am I the only one who wants a defensive minded coach (or at least a coach who will hire a top notch defensive coordinator)? I don't want someone who will ignore the offensive side of the ball, but I would personally rather win 21-7 and watch the other team limp off the field than watch nerve racking shootout.
I would prefer a Harbaugh, Addazio, Shaw, or Narduzzi like head coach. Virginia Tech football was built on toughness, stellar defense and running opponents the eff over on the ground. With that said, scoring touchdowns and having a bonkers offense is more entertaining (Whit is huge on the entertainment aspect of sports) and makes the highlight reels.
So you're still considering Bud?
I thought the same thing
Am I the only guy on the matt campbell band wagon? The dude is 33-14 as a head coach is 33 years old and currently has Toledo undefeated. Also runs a super thrilling form of offense that puts up boat loads of points. This dude has successful written all over him
Good candidate. Wouldn't be my first choice but he has done very well
Nope. Campbell, Rhule, Fuente, Herman, Dykes, Fleck. I want a younger coach (under 50) who will connect with recruits, bring good energy, and is hungry. Being successful at a top P5 school isn't necessary. Be either offense minded or defense minded, but be willing to have a great coordinator on the other side of the ball. As long as they do things the right way, I can get behind them.
Otherwise, give me Bud as the transition guy, replace a few position coaches, and get a great coach in a few years.
I really think he'd be perfect high energy. Smart. Detail oriented. His teams have made some crazy comebacks so he's got a never say die attitude. Great offensive mind. Good bowl and regular season record. Iunno I really think he should be a darkhorse in all of this
I do find it interesting that the more people on here seem determined to downplay our importance and place in college football, the more impartial observers, who have contacts within the coaching ranks, routinely list us as one of the most attractive job openings if and when it opens up. In fact, many are saying that, with all of the intangibles associated with us, where we play, what conference and division we're in, our geographic location and proximity to recruiting hotbeds, that we're going to be the top job opening when Beamer retires.
So yeah, at the end of the day, we're probably going to be able to hand pick our next coach. That's not a bad situation to be in.
You and I have been saying it all along, this is a very good job and we won't have a problem finding the next great HC.
One added benefit that comes out in this piece (as in direct comparison to UVA) is that we are seen as having a stable AD situation. Whit will be here a long time (unless he takes over for Swofford) and he's an even tempered guy who let's you do your job. Buzz will tell anyone that.
1. Richt. 2. Herman. 3. Fuente. I don't think we'll need a fourth.
I agree. And, remember everybody thought the basketball hiring was going to take a while and it took 4 days. Whit is going to be aggressive and I don't think he is going to take very long to find his guy either.
I remember the excitement around here when Buzz was hired, I'm expecting/hoping for the same type of excitement when the next football coach is hired.
If I recall correctly, the exhaustive piece that the TKP basketball guy did (I can't remember his name) didn't even initially have Buzz on it because it didn't seem plausible.
Yep, I remember seeing rumors of guys like Bobby Hurley taking the job if offered too. Whit clearly had higher aspirations.
that would be the one, the only ltrepeter2000. I think this was the piece you're referring to.
Yep, that's it. Scroll down to the fourth to last comment and see where Peter added in Buzz.
I'm just glad we didn't hire Donnie Tyndall.
Where is "ltrepeter2000"? He was the Basketball Wiz here on TKP. Always enjoyed his posts.
who would be the equivalent football hire that isn't plausible that you would like to see?
Bob Stoops.
Edit: I want to add some logic. A thing Buzz and Tuberville had in common before Whit hired them was they were unhappy with their gigs at better (in terms of national perception) schools. I don't know if Stoops is unhappy with Oklahoma, but it could be the case that the relationship is stale. Oklahoma is an excellent program, but they're not the powerhouse Stoops ran in the early part of his tenure. I think it would be an asinine move for Oklahoma to let him go, but maybe both parties feel it's best to part ways. (I don't think it'll happen, but I'm indulging the original question of non-plausible hire.)
great choice and perfectly answers the spirit of my question.
Nice thought. Would definitely be a splashy hire. If he could deliver his attitude, swagger and wins against the SEC that he has at Oklahoma he would be a home run
Plus he's shown he can win National Championships with the last guys... Disregard
Plus, Oklahoma took our baseball coach, it's only fair that we get their football coach.
Gary Patterson or Art Briles
Coach with a great name pedigree - Check
Situation that would shock you now, but would make sense the more you think about it - Check
Upgrade in long term conference stability despite arguable downgrade in current program pedigree - Check
Move that would set the sports media on fire - Check
If you, like me, assume that money will not be a limiting factor in this search, I can see us taking a swing at guys like that. It would be every bit the shock the Buzz hire was, but who knows...
Agree with Patterson. Definitely would be an unexpected splash hire. Would also put Richt in there as well. Also would put Chip Kelly in this category, but he would be a long shot I'm sure.
I used to be high on Briles, but after the Samuel Ukwuachu debacle, I have no interest in Art Briles coaching at VT.
I'm not sure I would count out Bud as a serious contender for HC. He has earned a shot. Plus, from what I understand, he has notebooks full of ideas on how to be a HC. He has said in the past he would prefer a high-octane offense (Oregonish). Maybe he has an OC (perhaps an up-and-comer from G5) in mind? Build an offensive staff and pretty much keep the D intact (Torren to DC, etc.).
I bet he does, after all those years of the defense carrying the the team to 10 wins
I found that really interesting at the time. 180-degrees from Frank's comments openly stating he wanted a methodical, ball-control offense.
Can we make LOLWVU a thing? I like what you did there
For recruiting purposes, Odell Haggins from FSU is a name I've researched. Great recruiter, recruits the 757 already, and the dc area, just doesn't have head coaching experience.
Personally, give my Bud Foster as HC, Torrian Gray as DC, and have Bud find his next secondary coach. Then clean house with the offensive staff. Shane might still have a place here, but I'd leave it up to Bud. Bud will go out and try to find an up-and-coming OC to run a spread run offense (a preference he has espoused before). Curious to see who he would try to pick up. If he's truly looking for a potential high-risk, high-reward type guy, someone like Rhett Lashlee (good few seasons as OC under Malzahn, but Auburn O has struggled recently) could be a potentially very interesting buy-low guy who is looking to prove he can implement a spread offense by himself instead of with Malzahn.
Another option I could see as viable would be Chad Morris as HC and keep the defensive side together. Morris would bring a MUCH different offensive gameplan, but is still a run-oriented guy with big passing plays coming off the run and screen game.
Who knows. Maybe Whit hires Tommy Tubs or Tom Herman or Pep Hamilton and they come in and clean house. It will be a very interesting off season no matter what.
I just don't want RichRod.
Even last year I would've agreed with you, but seeing the product on the field this year, I think you need wholesale changes. I don't think you can have Bud as HC and have him change the culture. You certainly cannot retain Shane. If the new HC wants some of these guys around then great, but I see that as creating potential for an awkward staff dynamic which I doubt they will want.
Bud could start by looking at half the OCs we have faced this year as we have made them look like a million bucks
I hope that if in fact this is Beamer's last year, which I hope it is, they have begun the coaching search regardless of the "announcement". If they announce next week or at the end of the season doesn't matter to me as long as they are talking to candidates now (or as soon as they have decided that it's time). I also hope we go for a young up and comer like Fuente, Herman etc. I'm really not impressed with Rich Rod and think there is more upside with a newer guy. Also, if we wait too long, as in another year, I think we'll miss out on a lot of the good hires as there are a lot of openings now.
Like I said earlier in this thread, whit has put feelers out. Now it's just a matter of time!
LOL...alright since we are looking at it that way who would be our ultimate fish too land. Any coach in the country NFL, College, retired...the sky is the limit. Who is our pick? I think mine would be Mike Tomlin
Fuentes or Campbell from Toledo really intrigue me! Those would be my top two!
Campbell's resume seems a little light for Whit to put his faith in him.
Realistically I'd like Fuente or Herman looking at young guys. I we are looking at more seasoned head coaches perhaps Richt. I do like the idea of Tomlin too though. Dreaming I'd take Harbaugh. He's a little weird and he'd probably think he agreed to coach GT, but that guy can coach. He's had success at Stanford, SF and now michigan....without even recruiting a class!! He has taken Brady Hoke' mess and made them winners. They have what, two losses (which if weren't for the punter they would have one loss)?? Have shut out how many teams? He's bringing Michigan back to what they expect to be. He can win with anybody apparently.
Wait, did you just propose we go after Jim Harbaugh? A year after he came back to Michigan?
I literally think that getting Saban from Alabama would be easier than getting Harbaugh from Michigan right now. Maybe even getting Urban Meyer would be easier.
The only person I can think of that would be more impossible to get than Harbaugh would be Belichick.
hopefully that clears it up a little. And the guy did say if you could go after whoever you wanted.
Are we limited to coaches who are still alive?
Lets just say we'll pay more if they're alive.
Gruden?
Gimme Tony Dungy!!!!
Wish I was there right now!
That's a recruiticorn fisherman there. Need a boat to land an HC (or a kid in Miami). But I like how you loaded up on your options. Smart
What about Jim Tressel?
Not only no, but hell no.
He has an NCAA show cause against him, that is a stupid hire by any AD until it expires.
Shaka Smart?
I've been tracking planes, looks like he's going back to VCU to establish a football team there.
What about Bruce Arians?
He looks good in #ALLMAROONEVERYTHING
As we've discussed elsewhere, he's 63, and right now, Arizona is performing too well to want to get rid of him any time soon.
Otherwise, it would be a good idea.
Man, if he were about 15-20 years younger, might be a no-brainer. But he's just a few years younger than Beamer, and is a wildly successful NFL coach. No reason to think he would jump to the college game, especially with no real experience with recruiting. But the man is an outstanding football coach and awesome ambassador for VT. Tons of respect.
Arians has experience recruiting- he was a HC at the college level in the 80s. He wasn't terribly successful as a college HC, but he was also coaching Temple, so hard to judge him strictly on wins and losses. He actually had a player finish 2nd in the Heisman voting in 1986 which is quite an accomplishment when you're coaching at Temple and went 6-5.
That said, Arians was a realistic option back when we hired Beamer after the 1986 season. He's not a realistic option at this point for a number of reasons.
Just a thought, but what about Bill O'Brien? The Texans are a mess, and if it continues will he have a job at the end of the year? He is a good offensive mind, and comes from the Belichick coaching tree which definitely doesn't hurt. My choice would be Herman though. I look at the work he did with those QB's at OSU last year, and how impressive Houston has been this year and would love to have him here in Blacksburg. Maybe he can be Urban Meyer 2.0
There has never been a successful head coach from the Belicheck tree. They have all failed. They are great coordinators, but bad head coaches. Bill wasn't at Penn State long enough to really prove anything and they are a reportedly a hot mess right now.
Perhaps at the NFL level that may be true.
However, at least in college, Nick Saban disproves that. Or is at least an exception to the rule
I can give some insight about PSU:
O'Brien did everything he could do with PSU but had two major, major problems.:
1) The Paterno loyalists were on a witch hunt from day 1. He was never going to be good enough for them because he was not Joe. There was no way around this.
2) The sanctions he was under killed so much of the team and the recruiting during his time there. Many players left since the NCAA waived the one-year-sit-out rule. He got Christian Hackenberg and turned him into a potential #1 draft pick, instituted a modern offense, and lead the team to 8-4 and 7-5 records, which were miraculous for the situation they were in.
Then came James Franklin, who the fans up here believe is a total mess, has destroyed Hackenberg, and failed to live up to any expectations as of yet. If you're looking for the reason PSU is a hot mess, it's first and foremost due to the Paterno loyalists and second due to Franklin needing to remake the team.
My coach has some connections with the PSU athletic department and would confirm these points. He says the biggest reason why O'Brien left was because the administration wouldn't leave him the hell alone since they were scared to death of more NCAA trouble.
A taste of Bill O'Brien's frustration with the Paterno loyalists
http://www.pennlive.com/sports/index.ssf/2014/01/bill_obrien_the_outside...
I think Charlie Weis is still getting paid by Notre Dame, Kansas and Florida. So Weis is successful at getting dem checks....
Hey, why don't we hire Charlie Weis to be the next coach? He's available.
Whatever happened to Tommy Bowden? I'm not saying we should hire him, I'm just curious.
Dude does the halftime show on the ACC network.
That's not a joke.
mid as well bring in mike hogwood to coach lol.
what do you guys think about nick Sorenson? currently special teams coach at the Seattle seahawks spent some time as a quality control coach at youngston state. I know his resume is not SUPER impressive but hes a hokie, I think he would keep our current brand intact, be loyal and care about VT, hes young energetic and all those things we like about a lot of other folks he just doesn't have the head coaching exp but I think maybe having some NFL experience helps his cause in that case.
Interesting thought. I think I've seen his name thrown around a tiny bit. He could be a dark horse candidate. Honestly I think Whit is going to haul in a bigger fish than most of us are expecting. Football is the main revenue generator for this athletics program and if Whit is willing to splurge on a basketball coach like Buzz I'm certain he'll go at least one step further for a football coach. Whit has surprised us before and I'm confident he'll do it again.
The only move that I would absolutely love but wouldn't be completely surprised by would be if he brought in Tom Herman. Every day I think about it the more I like Tom and the more I want him on the sidelines in Blacksburg. Each day that goes by I feel more and more confident that we could actually get him here. Whit certainly has done much much more research than I'll ever do and I trust him to make the right decision. If it's not Tom Herman I won't be upset. He's my personal #1 but ultimately Whit is far more qualified to make the right call than I'll ever be.
I really like the idea of bringing in Herman. He is proving to be a good HC at Houston and working for Meyer at OSU is big plus. If anything, he has experience coaching against Narduzzi, who he would see every year.
My other top choice is Fuente. Everything about him screams up and coming superstar. He has Memphis playing well, and Memphis is traditionally abyssmal.
The funny thing about Sorenson. His family always had an extra ticket for games. I met them one day at Walmart and they asked me if I was going to the game, and I said that I would if I could find a ticket. I sat with them through half way of the 98 season and half of the 99 season.
That was fun.
I personally like Chad Morris. I think there is a good possibility that he would keep Bud Foster as Foster has publicly stated that he would like to work with him.
wonder what his buyout from SMU would be?
Said it before... Chad Morris is a Texas guy. He's cool waiting in the weeds over at SMU for the Longhorn job.
THIS^^
......and, I'd rather have Tom Herman for various reasons. I happen to believe Tom Herman would be much easier to lure to Blacksburg anyway.
Texas isn't going to hire Chad Morris until he proves himself somewhere other than SMU.
Texas has their eyes set on Nick Saban for the next hire. Or Jim Mora Jr or Hugh Freeze. If Chad Morris does want to wait for the Texas job, he will need to do what Fuente did at Memphis. Which, in case it isn't clear, is a pretty unusual coaching job. Way more chance that SMU fails than succeeds.
Chad Morris needs to get out of SMU asap.
No one has ever been more right about SMU football. That program has been shitawfulbad since the "Pony Excess" (thanks ESPN) debacle. If Morris ever wants to be considered for anything other than HC at Lake Travis High (again) he needs to get out off Dallas.
You can't recruit an 18 year old kid with offers to go anywhere else to jump on a sinking ship.
SMU paid Morris $2M, which is pretty good. That's probably why he's there. And the second reason that he's there is so he can leave as quickly as possible.
You don't want to hang around SMU any second longer than is necessary.
This is correct. He is a Texas guy through and through. I know several people who worked with the Clemson athletic department and they would agree.
No way Morris comes to VT.
It is already being reported that Morris is interested in the South Carolina job, why not VT too?
It is entirely possible he could be using it as leverage to get a raise. He just doesn't strike me as the kind of person that would leave a job after just one season.
Lets wait until hes had success has a HC
I've seen people on this thread talking about really truly breaking the bank for the next head coach and have made a number of suggestions.
I, for one, don't think we'll spend $5 million a year on a head coach, so I think a number of big names would go out the window (because I think they'd command $5m from another school).
But if we were willing to break the bank, there are only two coaches I'd consider. Meyer and Saban. That's the list. They are the list. Maybe Pete Carroll. And I think all three are unrealistic, Saban being the only (still unrealistic) possibility.
Carroll is actually 60 I think and fled USCw right in front of NCAA sanctions from actions that occurred under his watch. Please no.
I recently started a Dynasty in NCAA '14 (starting in the 2013 season), and I'm trying to see if I can beat our actual new HC to VT. I started at Memphis (crappy, 1-star team, easy conference, chance to crap on Tennessee) so for that reason it'd be fun to see if I could beat Fuente here.
http://fansided.com/2015/10/11/fan-uses-fifa-15-record-to-apply-liverpoo... send em a request!!!
That's awesome and duly noted.
I dont know what the status of the DC in Carolina (Panthers) but after watching that game on Sunday night and the work that he has done with those guys over the years... Would he be worth a shot?
Not trying to take anything away from McDermott, but a lot of the defensive success in Carolina could very well be attributed to the head coach, Ron Rivera. He's had a dominant defense everywhere he's ever been. McDermott is playing a part I'm sure, but it'd be risky.
also helps they have one of the best LB's in the league. Keuchly is an absolute beast
Kuechly (and Thomas Davis) is certainly a large part. My favorite player in the league.
Absolutely, watching them every week down here has been a joy, and they very quietly built a defense that has long term sustainability at the top of the league.
Thing is, even with Kuechly and Davis, who might be the best LB tandem in the history of the NFL, the other parts of the defense just reload. They brought in Charles Tillman and Roman Harper and all of the sudden they're playing at a high level. They draft Josh Norman, and stick with him for 4 years, 2 of which he was on the practice squad, and all of the sudden he's arguably the best shutdown corner in the NFL making ridiculous plays every week. They draft KK Short after Star Lotulelei 2 years ago, to the bewilderment of the league, and now they're both anchoring a stout DL. They lose Greg Hardy and somehow get better. Kuechly misses the first 4 games and AJ Klein steps up and they don't lose any of them. Charles Johnson goes on the DL and a 3rd round pick 2 years ago (Short) plays like a Pro-Bowler in his absence, opposite Jared Allen, who was considered all but washed up just 3 weeks ago when he was suiting up for Chicago.
Whatever those coaches are doing in Charlotte is working, and its paying off in spades. What's scary is that they're doing all this, playing undefeated ball, winning in Seattle... and arguably their best offensive weapon outside of Cam Newton has been sidelined all season with an ACL tear. They're going to be scary good when Benjamin is healthy next year.
hahaha
Maybe a bit much at this point, but they are the best active tandem and probably the best in recent history.
Since last year maybe. From 2011 to 2013 it was easily Bowman and Willis, who is a far better tandem.
Wouldn't say far better, Kuechly is/was better than both LBs and Davis is vastly underrated and people are starting to realize it.
Keuchly is marginally better than Willis in his prime, they're both the best MLB in the NFL at some point. But Bowman is far better than Davis. Even if hes underrated, hes not even close to the player Bowman was. No All-Pros and on the wrong side of 30? I don't think so
Marginally better?
lol
You just called Kuechly and Davis possibly the greatest tandem of all time... Do you even watch the NFL?
Tone down the attitude
Based on your claim its a reasonable question. I would love to hear your argument for why its in even the top 10 of all time