VT Football tweeted out some very good news:
We have received signed grant-in-aids from Jackson, Denmark, and Taylor. Glad to officially welcome these guys to Virginia Tech! #Sandman16— BeamerBall (@Beamer_Ball) October 29, 2015
Welcome to the #VTFamily Jimmie Taylor
#Hokies
#Sandman16 pic.twitter.com/g6BZMgStJA— BeamerBall (@Beamer_Ball) October 29, 2015
Welcome to the #VTFamily @SamD_02
#Hokies
#Sandman16 pic.twitter.com/8Mslrs0FVo— BeamerBall (@Beamer_Ball) October 29, 2015
Welcome to the #VTFamily @joshiejack17
#Hokies
#Sandman16 pic.twitter.com/Vkt1Je5Fer— BeamerBall (@Beamer_Ball) October 29, 2015
Welcome (officially) to Hokie Nation, gentlemen!
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Who are these people
http://www.thekeyplay.com/virginia-tech-football-recruiting/2015/06/9429...
http://www.thekeyplay.com/virginia-tech-football-recruiting/2015/08/9819...
http://www.thekeyplay.com/virginia-tech-football-recruiting/2015/02/8762...
Dudes.
Our next great WR, a MUCH needed talented DE, and a QB who could possibly have a chance to beat out Lawson for starter in 2017
They're 3 very good gets
Indeed. I was so confused when I first saw the announcements (October, really?), but then really happy. These guys are really important to our 2016 class.
Trying very hard to not make the "well, maybe they've resigned to the fact the season is already over, so they're getting to the announcing early enrollees" joke....
Shit, just failed. Oh well.
So is this the final nail for Lawson transfering out?
Why would he transfer. He will likely be the starter for next season and JJ will redshirt
Lack of playing time this year
There's another top QB on the Team
Not the defacto starter, Motley still will be at Tech and Durkin, and JJ
And of course the new Coach and staff
Lawson came to Tech to avoid the wait
Isn't this the case for every team that has a good QB on the roster and that also has good recruiting to bring in good talent? You know, like all the good teams that do well. I think this whole "we're bringing in kids that will challenge for playing time" is wildly overblown when we're assuming the next guy in line will just automatically transfer.
Look at VT's depth at QB and someone again is going to transfer out. You've got Durkin who flipped from Mich St for VT program (playing time im guessing). Lawson who flipped form Miami for playing time and then the coaches have already shown they like Motley the best so far. then you add in another freshman in the battle for playing mins. One is leaving knowing they cant all have playing time.
If Lawson had gone in on the Brewer injury, it would be different, imo. but choosing Motley and then choosing Motley again after such a beating as the backup QB to Brewer.
Durkin has been working with the TEs. He's not going to be a QB. That puts Motley first in terms of seniority and Lawson just has to beat him, which seems entirely possible with a full offseason working with the team. Incoming true Fr. is probably not going to be a starter, and if he is really that good, then whoever wants to transfer wasn't going to be good enough. Again, too much consternation about transfers. We would have, what, three scholarship QBs on the roster? That seems to be probably even on the low end for most FBS programs.
I really hope Lawson can live up to the hype and will beat out Motley next year but I'm still afraid that the LT factor with Motley may just be too tempting for Lefty...
Lawson is bigger than Motley by three inches, similar weight.
Please stop using numbers and facts to evaluate depth chart possibilities. Lefty wouldn't appreciate it.
There are lots of things I might question about Lefty, but his ability to assess QBs isn't one of those.
Fair enough, and I would agree for the most part, but then again his track record with QB's isn't quite perfect.
ie. Motley going for 2, Lawson's "package" we have all been waiting on, etc
The best QB will play no matter what. Not to mention Lefty may not be here next year.
You would hope but our RB depth chart the first half of the season doesn't inspire much confidence.
Lefty? It won't be his decision.
Think he's gone for sure?
Yes.
First of all, I'm 99% sure Beamer will be gone. In the 1% chance that Beamer stays, Loeffler would be wise to take any job he can get at some place other than VT. He has done just enough this year to have some credit that may get him another job. (If he had another year in the 100s, he might be out of work for a year)
Secondly, if Beamer is gone, we almost assuredly will go with an offensive coach. 90% chance. And if we go with an offensive coach, they will likely have their own OC and QB Coach. Sure, in theory, a guy like Morris or Addazio could keep Loeffler. But maybe 9 out of 10 potential offensive HC's would have their own Loeffler.
Maybe there is a 10% chance we hire a defensive minded HC. That would likely be Bud, but could be Kirby Smart or Pat Narduzzi. If we did that, potentially Loeffler could be retained as QB coach. But, again, new OC's usually bring their own QB's coach or serve as their own QB's coach.
Scot Loeffler still being at VT next year is a possibility. Like VT winning the (whatever division we are in) this year. There are 7 ways out of 246K probabilities where it could happen.
Yeah, I'm starting to come around to your way of thinking myself. Which is really a damn shame, because the look of the offense this season makes me think we really have something in Lefty. He could be good.
If we part ways, I wish him and his Chevy Y Bingo nothing but the best.
I agree I don't think Lefty has been as bad as people make him out to be, especially when you consider he wasn't able to bring his own staff in, we have been gutted by injuries, we had basically no talent in the cupboard,and our offensive line was a mess. Lefty's recruitted pretty well, the quarterbacks seem to be developing well, our offense has consistently improved, Our Oline while still a work in progress has gotten better (at the expense of raiding depth at defensive end). I feel bad for him, because even with brewer out if our defense had lived up to expectations we should probably be 6-2 or 7-1 right now
I think there is a chance Loeffler could be a good QB coach, even at VT. He does recruit the position well.
But I also think the Stinespring/O'Cain stink may still flavor our thinking on QB play. Our QB play is okay, but considering how we are in an era of offense and how many G5 schools are successful with great QB play, we may actually be able to upgrade at that position pretty quickly. Some of that may also be on Loeffler's complicated system, and I don't say "complicated" like that is a compliment.
There's a difference between a complex offense and a complicated one, and it seems we have the latter...
And, frankly, in college football, not much need or time to implement either. Baylor is famously simple.
I know you like Loeffler a lot. He has been better this year, but still, in an era of offense, I think there is so much more potential out there. I feel very confident in saying that whoever will be the next OC at VT, they will perform better than Loeffler has and probably would even project to over the next three years (assuming a VT Loeffler offense would continue to improve).
I think I'm at a point where I like Loeffler as a person a lot. He has the work ethic and intelligence I want in our OC. Stiney had the work ethic but lacked the schematic awareness to implement anything effective. Now I think we've gone to the other extreme. I think Scot knows football inside and out, and I think he's so young and enthusiastic that he doesn't appreciate the inherent limitations of a college offense.
I will say this, though, in regards to both this comment of yours and the one above it, regarding Baylor being "famously simple." Someone posted this article from the Wall Street Journal in another comment on another thread somewhere:
I think it's the famously simple offenses like Baylor, as well as the type of offense Stiney ran, which relied too much on a gifted QB making shit up on the fly, that's contributing to those blank stares. I do think Loeffler's type of system would prepare QBs for a career in the NFL, just by virtue of the fact that they're going to understand this shit inside and out by the time they graduate.
Basically, I see Scot being the kind of guy whose biggest obstacle in his career is the ideal offense inside his head. If he can ever dumb it down enough to work at a P5 level, I think he's gonna be great. Let him age a couple more years, let him mellow, let him realize exactly what's attainable at this level of football, and if he puts it all together I think he'll be great.
He's not great now. But I think he's good. I think whoever gets him next if he's released here is getting some value for their investment.
I think Loeffler gets a bad rap. When he came in the cupboards were bare offensively, the offensive line was in shambles and he wasn't allowed to bring in his own coaches. Our offensive recruitment has gotten much better(to the point where we might have multiple talented quarterbacks on the roster and a ton of depth at running back), our offensive production continues to improve every year, our O-Line is decent(and the recruiting for it looks bright), our quarterbacks develop nicely. He does have a tendency to overthink things, but we could do far worst in terms of OC/HC
This is actually a reasonable way to think about the 'wasted redshirt' for Lawson, too. Incoming true freshman probably not going to play, so a redshirt is likely. I'd rather have Jackson going into his redshirt freshman season with Lawson in his Junior season than for our two (supposed) next gen quarterbacks to be only a year apart.
He transfers and has to sit out another year, Durkin is moving to TE.
I think you are assuming a lot. I am not terribly surprised that a true freshman is less polished than a redshirt junior. If the R. JR hadn't beat him out, I would have been terribly surprised or we would have had the second coming of Vick. Lawson clearly is not the second coming of Vick. That being said, a year in the weight room, with the playbook, and with the coaches means he has a real shot of using his superior athleticism to beat Motley for the starting role next year. JJ is going to most likely redshirt next year, heck he might not even be here if he doesn't like the wholesale coaching change that 90% of the fans are predicting.
Dude!
via GIPHY
What? It's October. Usually the early enrollees are announced in December. Did I miss something?
The more the better! Especially glad to see the QBs enroll early with the steep learning curve for the position.
I'm glad we're getting Josh Jackson enrolled early. If Lefty wasn't on the staff anymore come signing day we probably would have lost him.
True story. That was my first thought when I read this. I have to imagine JJ would be pretty unhappy though.
The quack attack is back!
It should be mentioned that this does not bind them to the school for 2 reasons. One, they haven't been formally accepted and two, they haven't signed a NLI. They still have the ability to go elsewhere because nothing they have done is binding to them. All this means is the schools is officially committed to them. Financial Aid paperwork is just part of the early enrollment process.
Wonder if J.J. knows something about the future of Loeffler. He seemed to insinuate that if Loeffler was out, he could have a problem.
If Frank is out, Lefty is out. If Frank stays, Lefty stays. If Frank leaves and Bud stays...Lefty is probably out.
Let's face it, I don't see Beamer enticing a better OC than Lefty to come here without some sort of "Hey Bud is going to be the HC when I'm gone and he's contractually obligated to keep you around" clause.
I could see a very compelling case for whomever is the next guy retaining Loeffler as a QB coach/recruiter, especially if it means keeping our two best QB prospects. I still don't think Lefty is the best playcaller in the world, or that his offense is the best fit here, but he can coach up and recruit QBs for sure.
He would cost too much to go from an OC to a position like that. We would probably need that money to make a splash HC or OC hire.
True, money may become a factor. But, it's not like schools are going to be beating down his door trying to bring him on as an OC. Suppose we get a splash offensive-minded coaching hire (Chip Kelly, Herman, Morris, etc) and they offer Lefty an opportunity to come on as a co-OC or QB coach. That could be a big resume boost to have the opportunity to work with some big offensive minds, continue a track record of developing QBs, and hopefully have a shot at some OC jobs down the road.
It's a hard to sell a Bottom tier Offense to an incoming new guy I'd say. In 4 years the offense has gone from 84th to 103rd back to 89th.
Who knows, the next coach may go have a beer with him and be best friends and keep him.
I don't think a new coach would be interested in having Lefty as OC. I think he has great potential as a QB coach and/or assistant OC, but if the new guy is a big, splashy offensive-minded guy, that person will be running the show.
That's what I'm saying. This may indicate that Coach Beamer will be around next year.
I know the rumor mill is churning, but I'm not convinced that he's out this year, or even next.
what if Scott Loeffler is the new HC?
He seems to be getting some guys to commit to his vision-> so a + in recruiting.
He definitely would have some good connections and probably would keep Bud--> so there's a +
He already would have a QB coach-> possibly a Max Warner who also shares SL's offensive schemes and would keep Lawson happy?
don't kill me guys.. just thinking of the craziest idea ever! that's how this works right.
I think the craziest idea ever would be hiring someone like Al Groh or Paul Johnson.
I would have said Mike London, but the crazy thing there is that it might work as long as we get rid of him after year 2!
If we could steal Chip West that would be greeaaatttt! Maybe Zohn could call up his boy and see whats up as they worked at ODU together
OR Shane is the new HBC and keeps the entire staff intact.
Except RB coach, where he hires Kevin Jones
^^^This. So, when Lefty gets shitcanned at the end of the season JJ can still back out and go somewhere else. Hopefully, if we do get a new head coach he will either be a good offense person or bring with him a good OC so JJ will stay with us anyway.
The January enrollees are normally announced in December together. I am assuming this was done early as good pub and to show that the world is not ending. We still have a few more (2 WR's correct?) that are supposed to be here in Jan as well.
Soooo now possibly JJ and Lawson battling it out with the Mot man for the starting position next year? This will make my Spring much more entertaining.
Also assuming Deablo stays committed this will give Denmark a head start on him for that 3rd
TEWR spot.Have to imagine that JJ will Red shirt
Yea it's tough to make a prediction this early but it would be nice if he did and then was able to be a redshirt freshman Lawson's junior year and then maybe take over the next year as a redshirt sophomore.
Deablo, Kumah, Wolfolk, and Ladler also expected to commit early. This will definitely help in securing our best players for this recruiting class in case we lose any at least we know our top ones are all signed early and WR, CB, and DE are our top areas of need, unfortunately no linebackers I know of committing early. I feel like the rest of the recruits will stay on board though. I also like Patterson and wonder if he stays at wr or goes to safety and wonder if Quillen will play qb, wr, cb, or safety.
For all of the chicken littles out there that think the program has gone to hell in a handbasket, it's not as though Jackson's father doesn't know how things work. And yet Jackson's still all in.
Yea, this kind of further proves it though, also Commited to VT in June 2015
(Josh Jackson is a thousand times better athlete than me at any sport and at least 10,000 times better at football)
But we are celebrating a 3 star Dual threat QB from a school that has a history of 5 star NFL Dual Threat QBs
We beat out
Air Force
Boston College
Bowling Green
Eastern Michigan
Miami (OH)
Minnesota (Pre Jerry Kill resigning)
Northwestern (Pre Top 25)
Ohio
Oregon State
Syracuse
Toledo (Pre top 25 ranking)
Utah (Pre #1 ranking)
I get your point. And I don't think he's a 5 star QB, can't miss prospect. Decent but not great arm; decent but not great size; decent but not great mobility. Bryan Randall-ish IMO. And a coach's son to boot.
But there are 5 other power five schools on that list. And with all of the supposed uncertainty regarding the coaching situations (which is still more of a local fever than a national one), he could look elsewhere -- especially given that his father has been in the game long enough to see through the usual assurances.
Wake Forest is a Power 5 school. And they got the guy ranked right under him.
JJ #15 Jamie Newman #16 had an offer to VT. Took Wake
What school on that list is in the race for the Top 25 every year (where VT should be), Multiple Conference Champions in the last 10 years
I'm still not sure how any of that relates to the fact that a kid that is not exactly going into this blind opted to basically enroll now rather than wait until Feb to complete the deal.
If there's one thing we're good at as a message board, it's overhyping every recruiting class and deluding ourselves into thinking that we're doing better than our national ranking.
Who was overhyping him?
I feel terrible for writing this, but I'll be honest.
I am very glad to see Josh Jackson enroll early, because I was very worried he would decommit in the event that Loeffler isn't retained as OC should Frank step down.
Oh, and by the way.... the gif floodgates have officially opened on our newest QB
This season is a wash. There's not much I think we can do to salvage anything from it other than getting guys ready for next year. And while that's unbelievably frustrating and I'm tired of wasting my weekends watching us lose I kind of want Beamer to have one more year: Beamer's Revenge Season. Let him announce before the season that he's going to retire after the year. Get this group of recruits in and let's see if we can turn things around.
Somebody can come back and quote this when I'm after Beamer's head if we lose to UVA this year though.
What good does a farewell tour do other than gut our recruitting
We. Are. In. The. Middle. Of. A. Farewell. Tour. Right. Now.
This is the revenge season. Instead of bringing Frank back for the Battle of Bristol game, we brought him back for the biggest home game in the history of the program. And we lost. And now we've lost 4 of 5 games (!!!!). And our recruiting is the worst it's been in a decade.
No more farewell seasons. This is it. It hasn't gone well.
This was never meant to be that season though.
You can't announce a farewell tour in college football unless you have the next HC on staff. We don't. So announcing it would kill recruiting for at least a year.
This is the unannounced farewell tour. Enjoy it because there won't be another one.
Our recruiting isn't the worst in a decade, we currently sit at 34th the same as 2010 and better than 2011. I think our class ranking will come down to how soon and who replaces Frank as well as what assistants stay on. I actually think replacing Frank could help us with Dickerson
True, I just threw out "worst in a decade." I should have actually looked it up, it's not awful but its a step back from the last couple of years. And our in-state recruiting probably is the worst in a decade.
And this year, more than any I can remember, we have very little chance of adding 4 and 5 * recruits down the stretch. A lot of those guys still out there and basically none of them are coming to VT. That will push out overall ranking even lower.
Again, not really. The rankings also give credit to the number of recruits in the class -- and this class will be relatively small. If you look at avg stars, it's within the normal VT range.
Besides, the difference between #20 and #35 or #40 isn't nearly the big deal that it sounds like. It's probably a couple tenths of star on average. Hell, the margin of error in the star rankings is much greater than that.
I think Landon might still commit, the one thing holding him back is he has repeatedly said he doesn't want turnover on a coaching staff. If Frank's gone the chances of a new headcoach coming in over the next 3-4 years are small, I think it also helps that the other programs he is interested in have HC vacancies or might next year Auburn, Tennessee, and South Carolina
Baloney. See my post above.
If Jackson is still coming -- and his dad surely knows the score -- Beamer leaving now, next yr, or in 2020 doesn't have near the impact that you think on recruiting. The majority of kids signing in the 2016 class will play for at least 2 head coaches; it's just a fact of life now that these recruits understand much better than message board posters.
Watching Jackson's film, he looks like a much better thrower than Lawson was his senior year. It is also great that he is enrolling early. He missed either his sophomore or junior year with an injury, I believe, which took him off the recruiting map for the most part. He's having an outstanding senior year, but because of his early enrollment, other schools would be wasting their time recruiting him.
I agree. Lawson may be the better pure athlete, but I think JJ can give him and Motley a run for QB1 or QB2 next year. Maybe not in the spring, but next fall is possible. He needs to learn the playbook.
Loeffler's offense requires a cerebral QB. Jackson is that. I am not sure about Motley and Lawson. We shall see how quickly these guys grasp the whole offense.
I think that if the entire Loeffler offensive playbook can't be played, then its predictability goes up and its effectiveness goes down. The remainder of this season will test my premise. To a certain degree this may be why his offense doesn't work as well in the college ranks, but it could easily prep a NCAA QB well for the complicated offenses in the NFL.
Interesting take.
If Loeffler had a better offensive line and a healthy Brewer, VT would be winning these close games. Think of what he could do if the defense were up to usual standards.
via GIPHY
If the Queen had a set, she'd be called King.
There are a lot of if's about this year. It is all about results, hopefully they close it out. I'm already excited about next year: Bristol and a game at Notre Dame just in the first half of the season.
Agree w/ Vtkey...interesting take. And I suspect you are right on all counts (except perhaps the individual takes on cerebralness -- is that even a word?)
Sounds like Loeffler would be the perfect OC for a program like Southern Cal.
Finally some rare good news for Hokie nation at the end of October. Seriously though the past 4 years the end of October has totally sucked!
Damn, still getting after them recruiticorns with all our program turmoil? Most Impressive.
Still can't get over the fact that recruiticorns is a word
Those made up interweb words will get after ya...
Welcome to Hokie Nation. Denmark is a South Carolina 100 meter champ so can we throw it long, Lawson and Jackson?
As I said above, this is not binding and these recruits can all go elsewhere. It's financial aid paperwork which commits the school to providing scholarships for them, but it is not a binding commitment from the recruit to the school. A lot can still happen, but this is a good start.
Great news! One thing has me confused though... I thought the school / coaches couldn't comment on recruits until they enrolled?
That was my thought as well.
As soon as they sign their NLI I think the school is allowed to comment. You always see these posts on National Signing Day as soon as their letters come in.
But they haven't signed an NLI yet. This is a grant-in-aid agreement. I was stunned to see this last night, and screenshotted all of these in case it was a goof up, but then the Beamer Ball Twitter account mentioned that it was official. As stated above, this is a financial agreement that is binding for the school but not the student-athlete. Perhaps rules allow the school to comment as soon as their end is official, as well? Anyone with NCAA compliance insight?
Since they're enrolling in spring and already have been accepted into school and signed their grant in aids the school is allowed to comment.
Awesome, thanks for the information!
good stuff, thanks
The rules are a little complicated -- as is the distinction between the letter of intent and the grant-in-aid.
They're enrolling in January (which is before the national signing day in Feb) and have signed their grant-in-aid paperwork. That is essentially a commitment to attend.
Recruits actually can't sign a national letter of intent until February. Any letter signed before then is null and void. The letter of intent from the school must be accompanied by the grant-in-aid; the only reason to sign a national letter of intent is to secure a scholarship (grant-in-aid). But a recruit is not required to sign a letter of intent in order to secure a grant-in-aid.
I'm surprised that more elite recruits that have many school choices don't refuse to sign the letter of intent because doing so eliminates their options.
And I'm also surprised that schools don't push kids to sign that grant-in-aid as soon as possible. Really, it is an early signing period.
I would guess these three kids cannot go somewhere else before January. Even if Alabama offered, even if we replace our entire coaching staff, they can't go anywhere else until we release them from their grant-in-aid commitment. Once they enroll in school next January, then they fall under the transfer system.
Because signing a grant-in-aid means nothing. The kid can still go somewhere else. All signing does is starts the process and guarantees him that he'll be receiving a scholarship. Otherwise, he's still an unsigned recruit who can go to any other school without any penalty. There is no commitment from them to the school, only from the school to them.
So the LOI is what commits the kid to a school, not the grant-in-aid?
Right. The grant-in-aid obligates the school to follow through on the scholarship offer. The recruit is still 100% free to walk at any time. These guys signing is a good thing, but it's not binding.
it becomes binding when they either start class or receive financial aid, whichever comes first.
Right, but they don't receive financial aid until they enroll and start classes. You can start without financial aid, but signing the grant-in-aid agreement just gets it ready for them to receive financial aid right away when they enroll.
Looks like another signed today, Wolfolk a CB out of MD.