This popped in my head and seemed interesting, so figured i'd query folks. And for sake of the argument, let's say some ancillary issues (ie: could we afford him, would Bud stay on?) were taken care of, and he was very interested in coming here.
....would you be happy? It's been widely known that Meyer wants a football factory where you're in if you're contributing, else you're SOL if you're not, and that they certainly don't care about you as much (a la Cash at Duke).
But, you'd probably win a championship or three with him at the helm. Maybe more.
Would you be ok with that?
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No
The Ultimate "You're Not Good Enough For My Daughter!!!"
I saw first hand some of the things that happened at anOSU when he took over. That doesn't even include the crap he put up with at UF just to keep wins going.
You're the guy on the internet complaining about Charlotte McKinney's thighs at this point.
So I'm the guy who wants a clean program free from coddling law breakers, who expects his teams coach to graduate players and mold them into men? Yep I'll take that label proudly.
Gimmeeee that natty!!!!!
Yes Virginia Tech has never had any lawbreakers on the team...
Frank has always been fair but tough. He gives guys second chances but he has NEVER covered up or hid some thing from the public or police.
If he covered something up, how would you know? It's a riddle.
Him not kicking Journell out on his ass after his drug invasion arrest is a little more than "fair but tough".
This is an unequivocally untrue statement. Beamer overall has run a clean program, but we're all human. Never say never. Especially between the years of 1998 and 2006. (And, I don't think too much was hid from the police, but definitely a few shenanigans have been hid from the public.)
It's almost like he doesn't even realize how many chances MV5 was given by our staff.
Frank become tougher as time went on. The change came during the 2006 season. Frank suspended Chris Ellis and Josh Morgan for the Georgia Tech game. Eddie Royal and David Clowney were both dealing with injuries at the time too, so it was a bold move by Beamer saying, "Hey, this isn't how we are going to look as a program. We are not represented by players like Marcus Vick and Jimmy Williams." We lost that game 38-27.
Who is your guy?
wait, what's wrong with Charlotte McKinney's thighs!?!
If you saw some of the things that happened at Ohio State, and you have a negative perception in terms of how Urban handled them, you must be aware of things I am not.
Sometimes perception becomes someone's reality.
First, if you have a group of 17-23 year old young men who play a violent sport, you are going to have some problems. Everyone does. There is minimal difference from school to school in the quality and character of kids, although higher academic standards and higher income levels of recruit families at places like Duke, NW, Stanford, etc. probably creates some quantifiable difference. Coaches can certainly filter out bad character kids, but almost all of them will take a few 4-5 star kids with issues thinking they will discipline them, coach them up, and make them into outstanding young men. That's happened a lot, which encourages coaches to keep taking chances on kids, but sometimes it goes sideways - and when it does, the coach is going to have to justify the risk he took.
Having played on a few football teams back in the day, I believe that a few "on the edge" characters can help a football team - if the problems they create don't bring discredit to the program and school. However, if there are too many and/or no checks on these kinds of guys, it can go south in a hurry. Certainly the on the field behavior, crimes, and NCAA violations of the past Miami programs created a "thug" perception. It appeared the inmates were in charge of the asylum at points. You can't have that.
At Florida there is no doubt that Urban Meyer did not run a tight enough ship the last year or two he was there. The arrest numbers were ridiculous. [Florida continues to have problems in this area, which may indicate a cultural problem rather than a coach-specific discipline problem there] His discipline tended to lean toward his "second chance" mentality, and it did not produce very good results. Florida was a dumpster fire when he left. Urban admits his own life was not in control and balanced at the time, so it makes sense that he didn't make the best decisions regarding player discipline.
Urban took a year off, got healthy and balanced, and took over an OSU program trying to recover from a scandal. While he has characterized the problems at Florida as "somewhat exaggerated", he has acknowledged mistakes, and he appears to have learned from them. Ohio State could not appear to be a lawless program coming off the scandal and sanctions, and when the inevitable, alcohol, bar fights, girl/girlfriend drama, etc. came he was hammering his players. He often meted out twice the punishment most people expected. Carlos Hyde got slapped by a woman in a club, he flailed back at her, but never actually contacted her. He was suspended for 4 games. This has been the pattern we have seen, and even when suspensions are up, the players have to earn their way out of his doghouse. He has set a standard that if they spend time educating players about situations to avoid, and a player doesn't avoid them, they will wish they had. As a result, very few arrests, very few problems, and I don't think anyone could do better.
Urban has to own what happened at Florida. On the other hand, he didn't have those kinds of issues at BG or Utah, and he certainly hasn't had them at Ohio State. That's the reality. If one wants to ignore the entire history, and create a perception based on bias, then you take his mistakes at Florida and tar and feather him with that, and then you make him responsible for every misdeed several hundred 17-23 year olds have done over the past 3 1/2 years, and ignore that these events have been relatively rare and pretty harshly dealt with.
And another reality is this... if Urban Meyer was announced as your coach, you should be doing backflips and having spontaneous orgasms. I know I did - and I haven't been the slightest disappointed in terms of recruiting, on the field success, or off the field issues. I did hurt my lower back doing the backflips though. :)
I don't know if he could get it done with Tech. Maybe one.
I'd take Urban. Certainly over Rich Rod and Richt (two names that keep popping up that I simply don't understand) and all of the younger un-proven guys. If Urban was an option I'd be pretty excited to have him in BBurg. That being said, if we're not going after someone of his proven caliber my first choice is to take a chance on a younger guy like Herman or Fuente
Off topic (for this thread), but don't think it would make sense for us to take someone who is already doing "okay" (at best) from another school. Especially Richt.
Grab a current head coach, but someone who is successful at a lower level/tier and is ready to move up, not sideways or because their seat got warm. Seems a Richt or Rod would be a temporary boost back above mediocrity (due to shiny new thing and weak ACC), but we'd still be looking for "the guy" going forward.
NO. I'd rather not ever win a national championship than have him run the program.
Thank god you aren't making our hiring choices.
Because it doesn't matter how you win as long as you win right?
Urban isn't as bad as you make him out to be, and Frank isn't as good as you make him out to be (in this regard).
Right
I think a lot of people would take in a coach that has 3 national championships underneath his belt over some of the other coaches names being thrown around
Urban>>>>>>>>>Rich Rod
Exactly. He's clearly doing something right if he's won 3 nattys.
Yeah I'm starting to get the feeling you aren't going to be happy with anyone we hire
In fairness to Hokie Fireman I think he's pretty much only rejected two coaches out of the dozen who have been mentioned...and I don't really think it's likely that Whit will hire either of those two guys
EDIT: Okay, 3 coaches. I've counted Urban, Rich Rod, and Lane. I happen to mostly agree with Fireman. I wouldn't be opposed to having Urban quite as much as I would be for the other two guys. If we could have anybody we wanted, however, I don't think Urban would be in my top 5. All that being said, though, I think I would put Urban in the 'untouchables' category for VT so it's a bit of a moot point.
The problem is he doesn't specifically support anyone. That creates imbalanced discourse.
I get what you're saying but I didn't realize that providing support for a coaching candidate you like is a requirement for disagreeing with the support of a candidate you don't like. In the end, none of us really have any bearing on who will be hired so all of this chatter is an exercise in futility. It's fun to talk about for sure, and we all have our own opinions on certain individuals, but it doesn't mean much in the grand scheme of things.
Question for Fireman...
Whom, from the list of coaches (head, OC, DC) that have won a National Title since we played for it in 2000, WOULD you hire. Is there anyone that you would take?
For reference, here's the list.
2000 Oklahoma 13-0 Bob Stoops (2nd)
2001 Miami 12-0 Larry Coker (1st)
2002 Ohio State 14-0 Jim Tressel (2nd)
2003 USC 12-1 Pete Carroll (3rd)
LSU 13-1 Nick Saban (4th)
2004 USC 11-0 Pete Carroll (4th - repeat)
2005 Texas 13–0 Mack Brown (7th year)
2006 Florida 13–1 Urban Meyer (2nd)
2007 LSU 12–2 Les Miles (3rd)
2008 Florida 13–1 Urban Meyer (4th - repeat)
2009 Alabama 14–0 Nick Saban (3rd)
2010 Auburn 14–0 Gene Chizik (2nd)
2011 Alabama 12–1 Nick Saban (5th - repeat)
2012 Alabama 13–1 Nick Saban (yeah, we get it)
2013 Florida State 14–0 Jimbo Fisher (4th)
2014 Ohio State 14–1 Urban Meyer (3rd)
No. I think he would be successful on the field, but I don't want to field a team of criminals. I also recently met two unrelated #sources in the last couple weeks who are family friends with Steve Addazio. Apparently Urban isn't quite Frank Beamer when it comes to caring about coaches and their families.
In a heartbeat.
Beat me to it!!!
Absolutely
You play to win the game. Period. All those other thoughts on rather doing things right than winning are just excuses for teams that don't win. I'd rather win and let everyone else whine about the supposed ethics, that will never be proven by the way. Don't with the excuses, give me a winner.
Not a chance. I was an OSU fan growing up and I actually liked Tressel. Everything I heard, he cared about his players and they all loved him. Jokes aside about the tattoos, I thought he was a great coach and a pretty good guy from what was observed from a distance. I was no longer an OSU fan when they hired Meyer. I hated his teams at Florida and I really don't like him now. For him, doing the hard this is suspending his QB 1 game for a DUI even though by the school's standards, he didn't have to. I want a family atmosphere here where these guys can have a father figure while in Blacksburg, not a coach who will put winning above his players and their future.
I'd buy him Papa John's. I wouldn't even spit in it beforehand
Recruiting would still be outside the top 15 after the new toy shine wore off.
I think Urban would win at least 1 Natty before that "shine" wore off
Winning with a clean program is very very hard. Even Beamer gave second chances. It all depends on what you value more? I'll take winning with class over arrest reports. I think Beamers successor is required to run a clean program.
Yep. The recruiting....My God the recruiting.
We'd actually keep all the instate talent that we regularly lose out on. ...most of it anyway.
Seriously.
Urban Meyer isn't going to be regularly losing in-state talent to the likes of Mike London.
No way, no how.
Nobody is going to be losing in-state talent to Mike London for much longer. Unless he goes back to Richmond or W&M/ODU/Liberty/etc. hire his ass.
I have no interest in a coach that retired for the good of his family only to take another job once Florida released him from his contract.
Thanks but no thanks
More realistic thought experiment: what would you do if we hire RichRod?
Certainly more realistic. Also a much tougher question to answer. I really hope we don't pursue him because I just flat out don't like the man. Add to that the fact that his resume isn't even that great. He struggled mightily at Michigan and he's had 1 or 2 good seasons at Arizona (they look pretty bad this year) and I just don't see any evidence that he'll be able to come into Blacksbug and recruit and coach effectively enough to steer us to ACC CG berths. In order for RR so win over the numerous fans who will doubt him he will have to win big immediately and I'm just not convinced he'll be able to.
I think we'd be better off with a less polarizing coach. Give him 5 years to get things right again. Personally, I think with the right hire, he won't need that much time but I think that's about the standard these days.
IF Whit hires RR I will be extremely disappointed but I'd still root for the team and support the players. At the end of the day, the players are the most important part of the team and they need to know they are loved and supported. Even if we don't like their coach.
I'd be ecstatic, but he'd be out of his damn mind.
Ask OSU fans. It's pretty easy to get over your hate when your team is holding the trophy. As long as when he walked away there weren't any violations in his wake (ala Carroll, Kelly, Davis, etc) then I'm good.
Also he left Florida to spend more time with his family and we are all about family. It's a perfect match.
That "time" didn't last very long, less than 11 months.
That was TIC.
The fact of the matter is that the next coach, whoever it will be, will have their demons and warts. I can guarantee the next person won't be a saint; hell even Frank wasn't. We are making these calls based off of conjecture and people's opinions since I'm pretty sure none of us have interviewed or spent any time with UM. Much like everything else in the public opinion, nothing is as bad (or good) as it's made out to be.
Absolutely. My opinion, although seemingly unpopular at times in Hokie nation, is that winning IS just about everything. I'm not talking about leaving a wake of destruction and arrest reports, but I would gladly sacrifice some of our clean reputation to win a title. Maybe I would feel differently if we had already won one, but I want to find out what it's like to be champions so badly that I would 100% be willing to take a chance on a coach with proven championship pedigree. That doesn't mean I condone cheating or skirting the rules, just that I'm willing to hire a coach with a less than perfect history.
The answer is YES!! Urban's not an evil dude. He just expects results. He recruits top notch players and expects that to result in wins on the field. Seems to be working. So...bring him on.
Seems appropriate...
What about Tebow?
The Aaron Hernandez thing really gets under my skin. Tying him around Urban's neck seems to be a common thing UFM haters like to do, but it is absurd, and something none of the haters would allow to be hung around their necks.
I mentor troubled boys through our juvenile court. I had this one kid several years ago who was a sociopath from a horrible family. This kid had no remorse for anything he did to hurt other people. He was manipulative and totally narcissistic. I tried to befriend him, develop some trust, and give him a chance to make choices that would put him on a path other than prison. As a mentor I was trained to not take on the responsibility of saving these kids, but that I was only responsible for the example I set and the values and advice I gave to them. I had influence over this kid, but not control. In fact, his behavioral issues were created way, way before I ever knew him. As it turns out, as a young adult he was arrested for, among other things, theft, assault, and sexual assault. He is in prison for at least 25 years, and when he gets out, I believe he will commit more crimes. That's my fault, right? After all, I was his mentor.
Substitute Hernandez for my kid, and college coach for mentor, and you should see the absurdity of that whole line of thinking. Urban can be criticized for his mentoring, if someone is aware of obvious mistakes, but he didn't create the evil in Hernandez any more than he created the good in Tebow.
Nailed it
What a player does after he leaves a coach/ coach leaves him should have no bearing on how we view that coach. My problems with Urban are small I'd take him over Rich Rod and I'm sure dozens of other coaches out there but I think a better candidate for Tech is out there. Urban has certainly changed his style since UF but his staff and especially some of the AD staff at anOSU seem to think the old ways are still fine and he doesn't go out of his way to tell them it's not ok. I can't talk about how I say some of the things I saw at anOSU but I do know that while the truly awful law breaking that happened at UF has not been allowed to happen at anOSU some low level things have been turned a blind eye to and some not illegal but definatly immoral and not following the NCAA rules has occurred under his regime.
I'm willing to bet that this happens EVERYWHERE...yes, that includes our beloved Hokies. I know someone who was a tutor for athletes and they had an athlete flat out ask them to do the work for them. It happens everywhere. (to be slightly more specific, the athlete was indeed a football player who started for the Virginia Tech Hokies D1 football team. No, the tutor did not oblige)
Sadly, some of these athletes were coddled long before they ever got to college.
oh, certainly. But some of them may surprise you as well...When you put as much pressure on an 18-22 year old student athlete as D1 College Football does it's impossible to prevent every single one of them from trying to cut corners. Even the "smart", "up-standing" ones will give in to the pressure every once in a while. It happens everywhere. I wasn't under the immense pressure or spotlight that these kids are and I made my fair share of mistakes while I was in college. I can't imagine what these kids go through themselves. Small petty stuff happens...we just have to deal with it. It's kind of like pre-marital sex on college campuses. It's not allowed, but everyone knows it happens. Everywhere. All. The. Time.
A coach can build a culture but he can't force everyone to fit into it like perfect little puppets. At the end of the day, these kids are people and individuals with their own opinions and expressions. They're not going to be molded to the liking of everyone around them and it's absolutely impossible for a single coach to corral dozens of young individuals and make sure they're doing the right thing 100% of the time.
Things are going to happen it's how they are dealt with that's shows the character of the coaching staff and the example the HC sets.
I have heard the same from someone else who used to help tutor football players. Ended up quitting tutoring because it got so bad.
Hernandez is one example (and the most extreme example) of the problems with the culture Urban created in Florida. I'd recommend you read this article. Some highlights:
Is this the culture you want in Blacksburg? Kids swinging at assistants? Averaging 6+ arrests/year? Do you really want to go to TOTS and see Graduate Assistants chaperoning our players, because they can't be trusted to go to a bar by themselves, but our coach is so focused on winning that he doesn't want to hold his star players accountable?
It's one thing to pull a Jim Tressel or a Pete Carroll, and lie about a student getting money. Urban Meyer not only ran a program where players weren't held accountable for anything that happened off the field, but he put his players, staff and people of Gainsville in physical danger by repeatedly condoning violence and irresponsibility. He deserves all the criticism he gets.
How does this seem appropriate exactly?
Because it's a light-hearted joke that includes Urban Meyer (the subject of this particular conversation). Maybe next time I will post a disclaimer about how I don't condone the logic behind a College Gameday sign so I can avoid rustling anyone's jimmies- however it's a lot easier to just have a giggle and move on.
Yup, Urban deserves "credit" for Aaron Hernandez just as much as Frank Beamer deserves it for Michael Vick abusing dogs, right?
By the way, the few times I've actually seen Urban speak about on TV or in interviews Frank Beamer and VT, he's only ever been gracious and complimentary. Once was during the tOSU game - he complimented us on our facilities and Frank on what he has built here during the halftime interview. The other, it was recruiting article where a recruit that picked VT over Urban relayed that Urban had told him "You're going to play for a coach that does more with less than any other coach in America. Good luck." I don't remember when, where, what site, etc. so can't find it to link it but would if I could.
One red flag I see with meyer is that he left a Florida program only after squeezing all he could out of it and before there was a major talent drop off. Seemed like running away to me. But, I could also very much be wrong about that.
Look, you are talking about a bunch of (mostly) immature young men where they are worshipped at a place like Ohio State, the system is awash in money (of which only a small pct flows to the players), and where the opportunity to violate some law, social more, or NCAA regulation is there every day. I assume that elite CFB players are more at risk for rule-breaking than the average male university student. They are going to screw up in a myriad of ways.
The responsibility of the head coach is to:
1) Set a clear standard of expectations
2) Punish violators of those expectations
If no or a lacking standard is set, or if wrong-doing is winked at, then the coach deserves harsh criticism for enabling, perhaps even encouraging, wrong-doing. But I think almost every major CFB coach is doing those 2 things as best they can, but some are doing it better than others. Regardless, I can't find it within me to hold coaches responsible for every errant action their players take. Hell, I don't feel responsible for my 27 year old son or my 22 year old daughter. They are making their own decisions, and I have no control over what they choose to do. (They are pretty good decision-makers BTW. So far.) I see being a CFB coach in the same light. All they control is their response to the bad choices of their players.
But this whole "I'd rather lose with integrity than win with corruption" BS really irritates me. Go to a Penn State forum and you will see that exact sanctimonious sentiment. It's a delusion. Every football team I was ever on had some bad guys on it. Penn State has them, VT has them, OSU has them, and so does everyone else. If "winning with integrity" requires absolutely no wrong-doing, or tolerance of wrong-doing in the slightest form, then there isn't one program in the country who wins or loses with integrity. That's just the hard truth, but many would like to live in a parallel reality where that truth doesn't apply to their team. I guess there is some psychological comfort that one gets from doing it that helps them deal with failure. But when you boil it all down, it's just bullshit.
I was kind of hoping we could get this guy to coach us:
In all seriousness, I think you are spot on and we need to get off the holier than thou tenor.
So let's play this game - what if VT were to hire Jim Tressel - who's currently available to coach.
Is he 1) a complete cheat, 2) a guy who was just trying to protect his players who made bad choices, or 3) somewhere in between. And do his results on the field forgive any of the other stuff.
He has an NCAA show cause against him, any AD who hires him before that expires doesn't deserve to have a job.
Good Lord. I hate to have to do this again.
Jim Tressel is probably one of the finest human beings that is breathing in the world. He also got caught up in the believing in flawed, troubled players - both at Youngstown State and Ohio State (Mo Clarett in particular). He was way more lenient in terms of discipline than Urban Meyer, but it flowed from a soft heart and that "family atmosphere" that fans say they want.
Outside of the tattoo scandal (Gasp! Players traded their own stuff for ink. Obviously worse than sexual assault, armed robbery, academic cheating, taking tens of thousands of dollars from boosters, etc.) Jim Tressel has no stains on his record in terms of NCAA sanctions or doing anything other than the right things. There are a few contrived scandals at YSU that Tressel haters will exaggerate to try to create the appearance of a pattern of "cheating" behavior, but if you look at it with a level head, it's just haters hating. And, of course, you can take his less than the strictest disciplinary approach at OSU, and make some hay with that by hanging every player indiscretion around his neck in the same way we have discussed.
Jim Tressel lied to OSU and to the NCAA. He was required to disclose anything he knows of to his own compliance department and to the NCAA about any issue that would cause any of his players to be ineligible. He signed at least two forms where he attested that he was unaware of any eligibility issues. The truth was that he was aware in April of 2009 that 5 of his players had traded stuff for tats after being informed by an attorney that a federal investigation was underway, directed at the owner of the tat shop. He signed the form prior to the season and prior to the Sugar Bowl that season. He claimed that he was scared for the safety of his players, and disclosure would have potentially put them at risk for physical and other harm. You can buy that or not. Regardless, his knowledge of the situation came out partially the following May. Ohio State announced a suspension and held a press conference that was an absolute PR disaster. Tressel used coach-speak when he needed to speak openly and frankly, and the AD and Pres made it appear that Tressel was in charge of his own discipline. But the full story of his complete awareness of ineligible players came out later in May, and he was fired on Memorial Day.
The consensus of players and people who know Jim Tressel is that this is one of the finest men they know, and a man of very high integrity. Clearly, he violated NCAA rules by lying about his knowledge of the situation, and he was justly fired for doing so, and justly given a 5 year show-cause penalty by the NCAA. This essentially ended his coaching career. He has paid a high price for his departure from doing good.
Taking this event into the context of his entire career, while it is nothing to celebrate, it does not negate the incredible amount of good this man has done in the decades before and the years since - an amount of good that many, many people are gladly willing to talk about because they were positively impacted by him.
Integrity is an interesting thing: I can spend 50 years building a record of integrity, but that can be undone with a single bad decision - then, according to the judgers, I have no integrity or never had any. Integrity means "wholeness" and implies perfection. All of us know we are incapable of having perfect integrity, however, we do have the ability to have integrity in each situation we face. We just don't always execute that ability.
For me, when I am about to criticize someone's character, I spend a few minutes contemplating the worst sins of my life. Sometimes it makes me not say anything, but if I do, I am much humbler in how I do it. In terms of Jim Tressel, for someone to be qualified to judge him as a cheater or a man of no integrity, I would like for them to have done as much good and impacted as many people in a positive way as he has. If that were the case, I suspect he would have very few, if any, people stepping up to judge him.
This guy is going all in. I applaud your efforts.
Your point is well-taken, but Tressel broke the rules and got caught. He's now a cautionary tale for others who are tempted to follow the same path.
Like you pointed out, integrity is an "all the time" thing, not a "most of the time" thing.
He's not the worst person in the world, and I'm sure he's a fine person, but when his integrity was put to the test, he came up short.
Sure, it was over players selling tattoos, but do you see how if that's allowed then that's an advantage for Ohio State that other football programs don't have? The rules are there in an attempt to even the playing field to some degree. If they weren't, boosters would be giving players cars.
lol
I'm guessing you know why I used that specific example...
You will get no argument from me that rule-breaking leads to more rule-breaking.
But just to clear this car issue up with some facts: Tressel steered players toward one particular guy because he trusted that guy to do things the right way. In the end, while the appearances weren't the best, after the NCAA looked at it, the sweet car deals weren't all that sweet. It appears that Tressel trusted the right guy in this case.
The "car myth" really got traction when Tressel was fired and Terrelle Pryor left a players only meeting in a late model 280ZX - and did a rolling stop in the process. Pryor was one of those players who had all of these "mentors" that included former NFL players and quasi-agent type people. It would appear, as it often happens, that these types thought Pryor had millions in earnings ahead of him, and that they got in line "to help him". If you recruit these types of talents, you get all that comes with them, including these types of problems. But his car issue was specific to him, and not a program or coach problem. But it's a fun thing for OSU haters to toy with. The weight of the tattoo scandal and this car issue was enough to drive TP out of Cbus and CFB. And very few Buckeye fans felt sorry for him. It was kinda like: "Don't let the door hit you on your way out."
But what did happen was some players had summer jobs with one particular booster in Cleveland where they were paid for work not done. It amounted to under 20 hours for all 5 players involved, and in some cases was determined to be just a few hours. In this case, those players accrued a few hundred dollars or less of ineligible benefits, but were suspended 5 games. 4 of the players were also involved in the tattoo thing, so it wasn't hard to draw the conclusion that we had a handful of players who were intent on skating rules and receiving illegal benefits, rather than a rogue coach - which didn't fit Tressel's history or reputation anyway.
The good thing about that scandal is that Ohio State is now hyper-vigilant about jobs and cars. But, of course, every NCAA rule presents an opportunity for young men to find new ways to skirt around it.
I don't think Tressel was a "rogue coach". He overlooked a few violations and he paid the price. For every violation that gets caught, there are probably ten that don't.
I heard of a different alleged car scam at OSU. Players would buy an old beat-up car. Then they'd take it in for repairs and get a nicer car on loan for an indefinite period of time. I don't know if it's true or not, but the person who told me about it was an OSU fan.
I think OSU put an end to those violations, but the reason they did that is because the NCAA looks out for these kinds of violations and doles out consequences. If the NCAA overlooked them, I'm guessing they'd be a lot more rampant.
The problem isn't only the "young men" finding away to skirt the rules, it's also the old boosters with cash finding a way around them.
Yes. Why keep players who cannot contribute?
No I wouldn't.
And more importantly, it has zero chance of actually happening.
So, why are we talking about hiring Urban again?