I'm in the exact same boat. Been pulling for Fuente hard, even tweeted at Sands and Babcock multiple times about it (as if they care, I know..), but now I am sad.
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Emo Bud makes my eyes water. I'm a girl who is prone to over analyzing things often, but I definitely read it as he wants the job. I don't think it could mean anything else, especially with what all is going on.
Like I said in the other thread, my brain wants someone new, but my heart wants Foster after reading that quote. He did help Virginia Tech become what it is... *sigh*
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I was thinking that exact thing today. My heart really wants to see Bud lead this team into the future. Promote Torrian to DC and bring in a great OC to top things off. But my head wants new blood at the helm. I really hope whoever is hired is an offensive guy and lobbies hard to keep Bud on the staff if that is what Bud wants. Either way, I would love to see Bud stay in Blacksburg if that's what is in his best interest.
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I'd love to have Bud as a head coach and let him make adjustments to his staff as necessary. He has shown he is the best DC in my opinion and his record speaks for itself. I do not want to make a splashy/swagger hire for some young offensive guru with no ties to the school, no background and doesn't even care about it just using it as a stepping stone for his dream job. This is Buds dream job and that is why he is the right man for this job!
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Seems "give up" has to mean he is giving up on his dream of being head coach at VT. It is hard to say what he does next. Lots of openings means he may get a few looks as the head guy at another P5 school. I think Bud has more ideas than were implemented at VT because he knew his place in the locker room with Beamer as the leader and others as OC. Like a lot of others, my current first choice is a competent, energetic offensive coach that will be able to keep Bud around. Those that think a clean slate is the only approach forget all that is still right about VT football.
Final thought - I close my eyes for a second and imagine Bud coming out of that tunnel next fall and I can't help but smile. His players have always been willing to run through a wall for him and I think the team would do the same if he was leading it.
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But the quote doesn't say "I have given up." I read it to mean the opposite (just a little poorly worded, which is certainly not unusual with "inspirational quotes"). It's hard to wait around, but giving up would be even harder to bear. So I will keep waiting and keep pressing on and keep doing everything I can to attain my goal, because it is all I ever wanted.
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Folks, this is what happens when you start squirting feelings all over stuff. I am sure if Frank said tomorrow he wants to come back, with the state we are in, we would pee tears of joy and welcome him with open arms.
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Well, the thing for me is that we wave our "family atmosphere" peen around all over the place, especially to recruits. If Bud gets the shaft, we can't really say that anymore. Is that worth a Fuente or a Smart or a Morris? That's the question.
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I get your point. But I don't think Bud not getting the job would be him getting the shaft. Especially if there's someone out there who Whit thinks gives us a better chance at winning football games. I think it's 100% fair to think that Bud deserves a shot but I don't think he deserves one at the expense of winning football games which is, after all, the goal.
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Oh, no question. I have no idea what the "right" answer is here, but for some reason I already trust Whit quite a bit. Just gotta have faith in him, I suppose.
Also, I'm not saying that I wouldn't be totally stoked on Fuente.
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It's hard not to trust Whit. He's one of the best ADs in the business and has already done amazing things for the athletic department. My dream would either be A)Bud gets the job and hits a homerun and does absolutely amazing here in Blacksburg or B) Fuente is hired and Bud sticks around as the DC. He is so important to the football team and fanbase. He really embodies everything about that lunchpail D and I hope he would want to stick around even if he doesn't get the head job.
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Can't see Whit hiring someone that will give Bud the boot. I really will go into an identity crisis mode if we lose Beamerball and Lunch Pail Defense the same year...
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Really don't see any new coach retaining Bud. Maybe a lower level coach or two, but I would think the new coach is going to want his guys in the coordinator positions. The fact Bud really wants the head job makes it even more unlikely IMO. New coach won't want any confusion as to who is in charge.
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I always hear this "his guys" talk. lefty wasn't "franks guy" but he became that. If im a head coach and im looking for defensive coordinator it really doesn't seem like a hard choice. who wouldn't want Bud. Do you really think his guy is better?? I would bet if he thought he had a chance at the new head coaches current school he would hire bud foster in a heartbeat. just ask kevin sumlin.....
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This. We don't know how any other coach would view Bud Foster, because for the most part, Bud hasn't been available to be a DC anywhere else.
Plus, how do we know that any head coach we hire would be looking for a new DC anyway, because his previous one got another job or didn't want to leave the previous one?
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He came close to leaving to take the DC position at aTm last offseason, according to remarks he made in an interview in March. Which made me wonder if it would be possible to pull Kevin Sumlin, who would be likely to keep Bud around. Long shot, but an interesting thought.
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He hired a downward trending, underachieving, overpriced Tommy Tuberville at Cincy. But he also lured Buzz (albeit an unhappy Buzz, when few other jobs were open).
When I take off the O&M glasses, my confidence level isn't as high as many others'.
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mine isn't either. I am nervous because I don't want to lose what was established here. I definitely don't want RR. Very nervous if it is not Bud Foster.
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I don't even know what to think anymore... On one hand, we have our head coach of 29 years retiring. Then we have our don't-take-no-nothing defensive coordinator retweeting a page that is probably ran by teenage girls. This has been one emotional week.
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one "bad" year shouldn't ruin 25 years (at least 15 of which) of great defense. But you're right in that this is the worst possible timing for defense to have a bad year. Bud is still my guy though.
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No, it doesn't... but what it does is further highlight the recruiting problems VT has had, and shows that Bud hasn't exactly been burning it up on the recruiting trail... Our next head coach will have to be a much better recruiter to succeed here than what we have seen lately, not sure that person is Bud
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People seem to assume that the rate limiting factor in VT recruiting is the current staff and not VT itself....I think folks may be in for a huge awakening when VT recruiting is in pretty much the same place 5 yrs from now as it has been for the last 15 yrs.
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The goal is for the team to not be in the same place 5 years from now that it has been for the last 15 years, especially the last 4. With that should come a bump, while not a leap, in recruiting. It's not unrealistic to think that we can regularly pull in a top 20 class.
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People seem to assume that the rate limiting factor in VT recruiting is the current staff and not VT itself....I think folks may be in for a huge awakening when VT recruiting is in pretty much the same place 5 yrs from now as it has been for the last 15 yrs.
I'll admit, I'm assuming that. I can't go along with the defeatist attitude that the best years are behind us.
I'm also a believer in Buzz for basketball.
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There's a fine line between being an optimist and being a Pollyanna. Frank Beamer fought so far above his weight class for so long that many folks have come to believe success is inherent in VT and severely underestimate how much of the success was due to Beamer and his staff.
It's Pollyanna optimism everywhere about a highly competitive endeavor played on an uneven field that is likely making Frank Beamer the last Frank Beamer - not just at VT, but everywhere.
I hope that the next coach can equal or surpass Frank Beamer. But you won't be hearing me call for his head if he only wins 7 or 8 games, still recruits in 20 to 30 rankings, and runs a clean program that isn't going to embarrass the university just to win at all costs...at least not until the VT fan base and alumni pony up an addt'l $30+ million per year for the athletic program to really put VT in a position to have elite expectations.
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VT's football program is different from the one Beamer found when he showed up in 1987. He's left it better than he found it.
It's not "Pollyanna" to say that VT has a great football program. They do. They have a great reputation and tradition, excellent facilities, a great fan base, and are attached to a great public university that is committed to the success of it's athletic programs. They're in a conference where winning is very possible.
It's one of the top open jobs as far as I can tell, so I don't think hiring a great coach is that big a stretch. After all, VT managed to get a top basketball coach with even fewer positive attributes.
VT may not have the most money, but they have enough to be competitive, and they sure have some great intangibles.
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Sorry, but it is a bit pollyanna to think VT is a "great" program. Having enough money "to be competitive" is precisely what I'm talking about. Thanks almost entirely to Beamer, he is leaving VT with a very solid program - a competitive program if you will.
But not a great program by almost any measure. No unbiased observer would rank the VT program as one of the top 15 in the country, probably not one of the top 20 or perhaps not even top 25. It is simply not a 1st tier football program or job; it is without a doubt a solid 2nd tier program.
And there is nothing wrong with that. And that doesn't mean that it's impossible for VT to continue to maintain itself as a solid program or even improve it's relative standing or possibly make a college playoff if everything comes together at the right time. But those who think it's as simple as Beamer leaving and bringing a new coach in and then the sky's the limit on and off the field because "we are Virginia Tech" are being a bit Pollyanna in their optimism.
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VT played in five ACC championship games, and won three of those. This team also played in a national championship game, and went to a few BCS bowls. It's been to 22 bowl games in a row.
So I think it's kind of stupid to try and pretend it isn't a great football program, or that it doesn't have potential.
The facts just don't support your conclusions.
So...
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Bud, even when compared to the rest of the staff is only an average recruiter at best... you can argue nobody else can come in and do better, but when others on the staff are already doing better it kind of undercuts your theory
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Fortunately rational decision makers are nothing like message board posters who see their binary football world through a weekly roller coaster prism.
I can assure you that if Bud Foster doesn't stay at VT, his D's recent challenges as identified by the VT peanut gallery will play ZERO role in the eyes of every head coach in the country who is looking for a DC. They realize that Bud Foster has an intuitive sense for the game like very few and knows how to coach defense and young men and does it appreciably better than almost any other coach in the country.
The bidding for Bud Foster will be voluminous and lucrative.
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This whole notion that a head coach is going to make a significant difference in recruiting puzzles the hell out of me.
Looking at the recruiting data since 2002, there is very little evidence for this. Schools have blips here and there, but overall there has been very little change in the various tiers of recruiting since rankings have been published. There are a dozen schools that historically dominate the top 15 in recruiting almost every year.
The most powerful correlation to recruiting success is -- by far...and more than everything else combined -- program reputation (historical performance, fan passion breadth and depth, financial resources, media exposure/hype, etc). A distant second is location...probably followed recent performance. There seems to be little lasting impact (good or bad) as a result of coaching changes.
With very minor variation, pretty much the same schools are in the top tier and the second tier and so on -- regardless of coach -- year after year.
The only thing most schools can really do to improve its recruiting (short of moving the school to a football hotbed and/or population center or dramatically increasing it's annual donations) -- is to WIN. Period. But even then it's just relative improvement, not a dramatic, consistent move to a higher tier.
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I totally agree. Bud will be on the market for about 10 minutes if he doesn't become our HC - and top schools are going to fire whomever they have as DC to make room for Bud. I'm projecting my own feelings here, but if Bud doesn't get the HC job here or one of the other openings, there's only 1 school I'd bet he won't consider being DC at - VT. Man has worked way too hard to get passed over for some young dude from a mid major or sorry ass RichRod. Bud has earned a 4 year contract. If it doesn't work out, there will be a new "it" coach we can try to get. And just because Bud is HC doesn't mean everybody on the staff stays. I agree with others that he's not going to let sentimentality get in the way of running things his way.
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The defense didn't stop winning until this year. And this year, two of our stud D linemen are playing injured, and our 5 star CB is on the shelf probably forever.
The only thing that I will fault Bud Foster for in the past 4-5 years is the fact that our linebacker pipeline has dried up in the last couple of years. (which is why running qbs run all over us.)
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I think Whit bringing in Buzz also might have opened peoples' eyes as to how well we could hire if we truly gave ourselves a nation-wide search. If we do that and Bud is the best, then hire him, but we're doing ourselves a disservice to not look.
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Not everybody; i never wanted Foster for HC
When most blamed Stiney's play calling, I pointed to recruiting.
Maybe I was wrong, and maybe i'm wrong about Bud, but
I'm standing pat
That said, if Whit hires Bud, I'll get on the band wagon and support the heck out of him
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I think Whit does his due diligence, but at the end of the day Bud is his guy. Bud wants the job, and if Whit hires someone else, I can't see Bud staying. If Bud doesn't stay, then I think pretty much the whole staff leaves, and I don't think Whit wants to go down that road.
Bud for HC. Torrian or Wiles for DC. Maybe Lefty stays, maybe Lefty goes. Honestly, with the way the offense is playing this year, I'm okay with him staying. I got to believe Beamer and Whit have a plan, and that plan involves taking care of the current staff.
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I.hope you're right! A couple parents of players told me their sons came here to play for Bud Foster n are real upset over losing that possibility. He deserves a shot as he carried CFB. Hire a great OC n I never thought I'd say this, but also keep Lefty as he has brought in Lawson n Jackson, who probably leaves if SL goes due to family connection. It's not like he's had an OL or QB to work with to get a good read on his abilities. If MB stayed healthy, we're 8-1, 7-2 probably! What's a couple years to pay a man for his loyalty? The staff did a great job in the Bowl game last yr w/O CFB. I LOVE CFB, buy his O philosophy has hurt us impo. Bud's defense has saved him up til the last 2 yrs n he's had tough injuries.
FWIW. :)
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Head coach hires are crap shoot regardless of resume or pedigree. You got a 1 in 5 chance that'll it'll be an improvement and a greater chance that it'll be a step backward.
I don't see anything significantly riskier about gambling on Foster than, say, gambling on some guy who's had a yr or two of success in a weak MAC conference or some coordinator who gets similar results to Foster but at a blue blood program.
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I'm not disagreeing with you that the odds of getting an improvement are less than the odds of getting a dud but where does 1 in 5 come from? Have there been studies to prove that (I think that's far fetched because it's so subjective) or are you just making that number up?
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It's a somewhat subjective, somewhat objective view, but look at the head coaches hired at ACC schools in, say, the last 20 yrs and tell me how many were seen as meeting the expectations of their administration, alumni, fan base and local media for more than one or two seasons. How many lasted more than 5 or 6 years before being fired?
I'll bet it's pretty hard to come up with 10 and there have probably been 50 or so head coaches hired by ACC schools since 1995 (include the schools that have come in and the schools that have left for a bigger sample size).
The Mike London's and Chuck Amato's and Chan Gailey's and Randy Edsell's and John Bunting's are the rule not the exception.
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And not to mention, Bud is without a doubt Whit's safest move. If it didn't work out, I don't think anyone would blame Whit for taking a chance on Bud.
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The current staff has had the last three years to sort this out. They didn't really get there.
If Whit feels like Bud is the best chance at taking this program to the next level, he should choose Bud. If he thinks someone else is that guy, then he should pick them. There's no room for "safe" choices.
Right now is the opportunity for change at VT. You don't want to drag it out. Measure twice, cut once.
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I'm with you. I don't expect Whit to necessarily make the "Safest" choice. But you have to agree, no one is going to blame him for taking a chance on Bud, but a lot of people might blame him if his out of staff hire is a disaster. That is all I am saying.
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Heck,
that's why I don't like the idea of going with Richt. He's safe. A known quantity. We know that he'll have us threaten every team in the coastal and every once in a while we might even win the division.
I'd take Foster before Richt. Is there more risk? Yes. Do we know what we'll get? No, not necessarily. But there's also potential that he could be great. He's always salivated over having a fast paced spread offensive attack that lights up score boards. If he were the HC I'm certain he would change our offense to make it more potent while maintaining the LPD attitude that endeared him to Hokie Nation.
that being said, I think this program desperately needs a new jolt of energy and Whit needs to make a splash hire. Hiring Foster might make too much sense and I fear that it would do little to prevent the stagnation of the football program. I love Foster to death but I want him to cut his teeth as an HC elsewhere first. We need a nice shiney new toy who will invigorate the fanbase and recruits alike and improve recruiting by virtue of being young and exciting just enough to help us break through. I think that's what we need.
But I'm not Whit and I don't know anything about football or running an organization. I trust Whit to do what's int he best interest of Virginia Tech.
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As much as Bud means to VT I don't think he gives us the recruiting bump that we so desperately need. Would be a status quo hire and Whit likes to go for homerun hires. Best case we hire an offensive minded coach and keep Bud as DC, but I don't see him sticking around if he doesn't get offered the HC job.
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For Stability sakes, Bud to HC, Grey to DC. Bud deserves that chance. Period. The defense this year has had more than its share of injuries and starter turnover, I don't think Bud's defense is stale, I think we have some growing to do. If Grey becomes DC, what makes everyone think the Bud defense would stay in its recent form? Things have been very quiet about Kendall Fuller lately. Is he going to the NFL? I have heard some rumors that his parents require him to get his degree. If he is coming back, that helps this transition a great deal.
On the offensive side of the ball, look what we did against two of the best defenses in the nation the last 2 weeks..... Josh Jackson is great QB get. He's gone if Loeffler is let go. I'm not so sure Lawson or Motley can run the entire playbook. You want to show a family environment and stability, retain Loeffler. I wonder if he becomes QB coach and we get another OC, would he stay and would Josh Jackson still come here?
The biggest issue for the coaches in this situation is Shane. I think he needs to go do a G5 HC position or equivalent and prove his mettle.
I know this scenario won't be popular here, but... so what. That is what I think makes the most sense.
There would still be a couple assistant coach positions to shake up (DB coach, RB coach, LB coach).
Someone wrote recently that there is an issue from the past that would prevent Bud from being an HC. #sources?? Any elaboration available? I'd like to understand that a bit more, as that makes this scenario null and void.
If Bud can't be head coach, then the entire staff will be different next year. You wanna talk about a HUGE change, that's it.
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Why does everybody assume that Bud to HC means he would be giving up his DC duties? We are limited on overall coaches, move Shane to Special Teams Coach (Something he actually has experience at), hire a new RB coach.
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I down voted him due to his unnecessary comment about what a loyal and long term Hokie "deserves." Tone makes all the difference, but I up voted another one of his comments to offset.
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I don't think VT should hire Bud as VT's coach out of sentimentality.
The only factor that's important is improving VT's performance in regards to recruiting and on-the-field results. Do people really think Bud has a better chance at that than some of these other names being mentioned? Was Beamer limiting Bud's ability to recruit? What would change about the program with Bud at the helm? I'd like to see Whit try and get the coach that he believes can take VT football to the next level.
I don't have a problem with Bud throwing his hat in the ring, but I'd like to see people making the case on his potential as a head coach, not that VT "owes" him.
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Thinking that Bud would just continue with Frank's ways is a little naive. The man is a very different personality and I think would change this substantially (he's hinted at as much before).
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He's done more than hint at it...he's flat out said it:
"The thing I let him know though, I'm not a status quo guy. I'm not going to be Frank Beamer. I'm going to carry on the foundation that Frank Beamer started and build on it. Just like Tom Osborne did for Bob Devaney, or Jimbo Fisher after Bobby Bowden. We built something here and I'm a big part of that."
Also read on here in some thread that he would prefer a more high-octane offense if he were HC
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The only factor that's important is improving VT's performance in regards to recruiting and on-the-field results.
I'm having trouble reconciling this with all the sentiment about Frank Beamer's character being a reflection of Virginia Tech values. I don't want to read too much into your statement, but for the record, I think there are many other important factors in hiring the next HC than results on the field and in recruiting. Yes, that's the job we're hiring for, but character and integrity are more important to me than wins and losses.
But what I really wanted to reply to was this:
What would change about the program with Bud at the helm?
Energy. Passion. A different type of accountability. I think there is a fire and an enthusiasm that Frank Beamer used to bring to the job every day that is impossible or a 70-year-old man with serious health concerns to maintain 24/7/365. Perhaps Bud Foster could reignite that passion.
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At times it has though, though the Miami game was certainly a low point. Still, this is literally the first year I can imagine ever saying that, and it's a year where the team as a whole hasn't been great and a year when the defense lost or had severely limited a handful of its best/most important players (Kendall, Dadi, Reavis, Corey), and they results have still been respectable, just not up to our usual standards.
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I think I was most troubled by a seeming lack of enthusiasm on defense Saturday
And another from the same write up
Woody Baron and Dadi Nicolas are on their behinds. Adonis Alexander and Facyson are scraping across in support, yet I wouldn't call it flying to the football. And, most infuriatingly, Deon Clarke has completely quit on the play and is walking towards the football with his hands by his side. That isn't Hokie football or Lunchpail Defense.
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No, but that wasn't the intent.. One comment said that energy and passion would change with Bud at head coach. How can we really expect that when his current players aren't playing with energy and passion?
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That's an absurd leap to make. It's one game in a season that hasn't been going well. We have 20 years of players running through walls for Bud Foster, but suddenly he can't motivate people based on the evidence of one bad day?
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One day where the effort wasn't 100%. Duke was rough at the end, but the effort I think was there. They did a good job of exposing the youth on the back end and lack of consistency in our linebackers. The D hasn't been dominant like we've predicted, but Miami is the only game where I would seriously question the effort being put forth.
It feels like you're just being argumentative now. If you truly think that Bud Foster wouldn't show the same type of energy and enthusiasm he's shown for 20 years based on a few lackluster efforts, then you can have that opinion, it's just unfounded.
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Not trying to be argumentative... again, I was replying to the point made above that under Bud, our energy and passion would rise, I don't know what that is based on, it isn't even manifesting itself with his current players, I don't know it would magically engulf the entire team
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That's great and all, but it would probably benefit us more if the entire D showed the same level of energy and passion while on the field that Dadi shows on the sideline
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Sorry, man, I'm not going to post 85 photos of everyone on the team being enthusiastic. That's asking for too much time to debunk a point that has offered little proof in the first place.
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Maybe his crush didn't text him back and then he saw an Instagram pic of her having drinks downtown when she CLEARLY stated that she was "Probably just gonna stay in tonight". And he was like "What?". Then he gets a text from her saying "Let's just be friends" and he said "Wait, I thought we were more than that" and she said "I never said we were exclusive. Now I feel you are being too clingy, I need some space".
Harsh, Bud. Keep your scowling chin-up, playa. Plenty of fish in the sea.
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It's legit. None of the coaches have verified accounts (I don't think), but this Twitter handle is routinely tagged and used by VT Football (which is verified).
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at least he was in front of you. If he was behind me, I'd excuse myself from the line or I'd have to sit there wanting to look over my shoulder, but afraid he'd see me do it...
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I hate this for Bud... I really do. But sometimes sacrifices must be made to become one of the elites of college football. If not hiring Bud Foster as head coach means we lose him as defensive coordinator, it is what it is. If Bud wants to stay as defensive coordinator, though, let him stay for the love of everything that is holy. Don't follow the "I-only-bring-my-coaches-with-me" protocol when you have the best defensive coordinator in college football in the palm of your hands.
Unfortunately, I don't see Bud staying if he doesn't get the job, though. Way back when things were simple and no one was calling for Frank to get fired/retire, it was easy for us to say that we wanted Bud to succeed Frank because we didn't know what mediocre seasons were like. Now that things hit the fan, we have become very cautious on who we want hired. I think had Frank ended on another ACC championship and maybe even something better, there's no doubt in my mind that Bud would be the next head coach.
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If folks want to make VT elite in football they should double their giving...that would do the trick far more quickly and with a much higher likelihood of success than any new head coach hire.
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Bud is arguably one of the top 3 contributors (CFB, MV7 then Bud?) for making VT a nationally relevant and dominant football program. When I first heard CFB was retiring I was really excited about the big changes ahead. I agree with many posts above that Bud would be a safe hire and the more I rationalize it I think it might be the right hire. He has spent his career as an understudy to a legend. Loves VT like we do. Give him a couple years to run the show. Hopefully our offense will continue moving in the right direction and the D will get back to their old ways, which we aren't far removed from. Completely cleaning house to make room for a young guy that has been successful for a couple years at a tier 3 program is so high risk that if we strike out it could put us back too far financially to recover. I am all for hitting the home run hire. But, how often does that happen? Bud is a guaranteed ground rule double. I can only imagine how excited he would be to fulfill his dream and I think that energy would be contagious.
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I like your post, but I think Bud is way more than a ground rule double!
Also in regards to my point about recruiting transitions for next year, see the following:
Josh Jackson
Position: QB
School: Saline
Year: Senior
Profile: Coming Nov. 6
Stats: Through nine games this season, Jackson has 1,525 yards and 19 touchdowns on 120-for-191 passing. He also has 432 rushing yards and seven touchdowns. He even has a receiving touchdown.
Noteworthy: After a stellar season as a junior, Jackson is looking to lead undefeated Saline to a second-straight Division 1 state finals appearance. Even with Saline having a bye week to close the regular season, Jackson is on pace to break his junior year numbers should Saline make it to the title game again. He opened the season with a bang against Rockford, passing for 354 yards and four touchdowns while rushing for 95 and another score. He is committed to Virginia Tech.
We need this kid here next year! Heck make his Dad our RB coach (that would take him from Harbaugh.....hehehe)!
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Completely agree. I definitely think Bud is a ground rule double with a clutch home run ceiling. We will have a few decommits and transfers with the CFB retirement no matter who we bring in next. We have to make sure we hire someone that can more than offset that if we expect to get back to the 10 win seasons and beyond. With all the competition this off season from other schools with deeper pockets it is just such a risk to take. Josh Jackson looks like the real deal to me!
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I feel like Tech football 1993 to about 2020 might make a decent 30 for 30 one day...
Part 1: Reaching relevancy with the 1995 season highlighted
Part 2: Days of Michael Vick
Part 3: Program flirts with mediocrity in early 2000s
Part 4: Joining the ACC
Part 5: Dominating the ACC
Part 6: Slipping into mediocrity and Frank's subsequent retiring
Part 7: What we're about to witness.
All of this centered around Frank's legacy and how he changed the landscape of college football in terms of defense and special teams. Also talk about how we don't see coaches staying at schools for 20+ years anymore. Interview several former players and coaches. Would make for a real tear jerker.
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Completely cleaning house to make room for a young guy that has been successful for a couple years at a tier 3 program is so high risk that if we strike out it could put us back too far financially to recover.
This is the shiny new toy syndrome we need to avoid. If we hire a new HC from outside, we will loose the entire present staff...all of them.
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Terrifying isn't it? We could go from 29 years of ole trusty Frank, Bud and an improving offense to a COMPLETELY new staff with some of the coordinators and position coaches that may only have a few years experience at the D1 level that may/may not have strong recruiting ties to the area. The HC could be a great hire, but without the right pieces surrounding the HC we will be in a world of trouble. Imagine how bad things would have been when our offense was a complete terd and we didn't have a top 5-10 D to lean on.
Not to mention the players and recruits we will lose if we clean house. We are finally getting back up to par with offensive recruiting and I am worried that a new HC that isn't currently a household name might not boost recruiting as much as we are all hoping for.
If you can't tell....I am a worrier and a realist. And I am very worried.
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Yeah, quite a wake up call this year having a middle of the road defense. I know we have had some tough injuries, but we are still better than most other defenses and that is kind of scary to think about. I am confident Bud will get it together if he is here next year. It is hard to rely on freshman to be perfect in a complicated defensive scheme and that has been our story this year. I am pulling for Bud because I think he has done his time and has earned the chance to fulfill his dream. I am also pulling for him because his job has been to coach the defense and he has routinely had one of the best defenses in the country. Maybe the same will apply if his new job is to coach the whole team. Who knows? I'd at least like to see him get a 2 year shot.
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I am pulling for Bud because I think he has done his time and has earned the chance to fulfill his dream.
I think that's the WORST reason to hire him. The best reason would be if one thinks that Bud brings the best chance to improve the program from it's current state.
That means that Whit judges the package of Bud as HC, and his choices of OC and DC as better than the other combinations what are available.
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I'm saying that's not the way I look at this opportunity. There's no "right of first refusal".
The way to look at it is the HC that brings the best package to the table, and that basically is the person who is most qualified as HC, and will likely bring the best combination of OC and DC with him. It's the person who Whit feels has the best chance of taking the program up a notch.
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I don't think there's a right of first refusal either.
I think there's a good chance Bud makes a very good HC and the lack of turmoil as the new HC gets used to VT, it's culture and the existing infrastructure, is a serious bonus. As well as likely costing us less money, freeing it for other things, such as recruiting.
Honestly can't see why Bud is not top of the list.
We'd be on the search for a defensive assistant coach and quite probably just some other assistant coaches while we confirm if Bud can handle it as top.
It's not as if he deserves it because of tenure but because he's earned by being one of the top coordinators in the country, for a very long time.
Besides, I think that if he doesn't get a shot, he leaves.
Give him a shot.
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To comment on my words from earlier. That wasn't the only reason I am pulling for him. I don't want him to be our next HC just to satisfy my emotions. My Pros vs. Cons list for Bud has a lot more Pros than Cons. More Pros than any other candidate I have evaluated. Bud has earned it on so many levels. Just remember that the VT HC opening is being considered the best current opening in the country for a reason. Bud Foster played a massive role in this program being so desirable.
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My heart is still screaming to give the man a shot...
Would Bud Foster be interested in Virginia Tech's head coaching position? "Uh, you guys think?" he said with a smirk. #Hokies— Andy Bitter (@AndyBitterVT) November 10, 2015
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That tweet was about standing in line to use a bathroom, that's it.
Bud is one of the best defensive minds in football.
He may also be an excellent all around mind in football.
I'd like to find out. I think it would be a mistake to not find out.
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1. Barring a terrible interview with Whit, he should be our next coach. Any hesitations we have are even more of a speculation than our perceived future success of an "energetic, young coach"
2. Bud will not be VT's DC next year. The dreams of bringing an "offensive-minded" coach paired with Bud as DC is absurd.
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And what do you use to determine whether or not he's the best:
1. Past performance - Bud has aced this
2. Values consistent with the Virginia Tech way of doing things - done
3. Great mentor to learn from - done
4. Interview - TBD
So, I stand by my statement, it SHOULD depend on the interview, because I think he's aced everything else. I'm NOT saying we owe him the job. I'm saying he's already proved himself to be the best candidate (minus the interview where he lays out his plans and his vision for the future).
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Bud has zero past performance as a head coach, and the head coach position is different from defensive coordinator.
What are the qualities Whit is looking for in a head coach? For those qualities, which of Whit's candidates is the strongest? Which can bring the strongest combination of OC and DC with their "package"?
I think it's very easy to hop on the "We like Bud" train, and he certainly brings some strong qualities (as well as continuity), but I think the analysis has to go deeper than that. Do you want to see some changes in VT's program, or not?
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Neither is Kirby Smart. Morris has less than a year experience. Herman and Fuente have HC experience, but not on a P5 level. Coordinators get promoted. These things happen.
The questions you ask all come from the interview.
I don't believe anything I've said indicates that my views are simply "we like bud" train. His work speaks for himself. Any new coach is a risk. I think bud has a high floor and an even higher ceiling. I like his hard nosed attitude, his passion for the game, his players. I like his adaptability, and the fact that he has ideas of his own other than Beamer. I also think OC's are salivating to pair their offense with his defense.
I want to see the RIGHT changes in VT's program, not change for the sake of change. Bud is not Beamers. They're friends, not clones.
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At the same time, I wonder "if he has some great ideas about recruiting, why they're not implemented already."
I'm OK with considering Bud, but I'm not seeing it as a slam dunk. You brought up some weaknesses of other candidates. You need to turn that same keen analysis towards Bud. That's also Whit's job.
In a perfect world, this last three years was a transition to the current staff. For some reason the whole thing is coming up short. Part of the analysis has to consider the reasons for this. I've got to believe Bud is already doing his best.
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I agree that the dreams of that are not absurd. How could you call dreams absurd?!
that being said, I do think it's far fetched that we could bring in an "offensive-minded" coach to pair with Bud. If Bud becomes HC I'm sure he'll go after a young OC with some experience who may prove to be a good "offensive-minded" coach and that would be the best case. If Bud is skipped over for a different head coach, especially a younger one, I doubt if he stays in Blacksburg. For his sake, I hope he gets a HC gig somewhere this year, whether its at VT or not. I've really enjoyed having him as a DC but it's unrealistic to think he will be forever.
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Comments
I just saw this as well. I don't think we should read into it just yet.....
Emo Bud will get after ya
Blacksburg Confessional?
Foster has feelings? I was under the impression he was defensive cyborg sent from the future to destroy any offensive player that stands in his way
Except mobile QB's
Ouch
Could mean a lot of different things
Maybe like win a NC for Beamer and now he has to give up with that??
I don't think winning an NC is something you "wait around for". It's pretty obvious what Bud is referencing.
That's how I read it.
He could simply be talking about winning an NC with Frank. You have to think that has been a goal of theirs to do together for a long time.
Still sad, but let's not go too emo just yet...
That doesn't make sense though in the context of the quote...they weren't waiting around for a NC nor did they give up.
IDK, Emo bud might be thinking a little deeper.
Yeah but he wouldn't really be giving up either if Whit selected someone else to be head coach.
Not being chosen is not giving up
Give up as in give up his dream, which is to be HC of Tech is how I took it.
Feelings are those things chicks have right?
no, those are t*ts
* = wee
I know HokieGirl has been showing her tweets to everyone lately...she's a chick and she has 'em
Sometimes they're wee, and sometimes they're big.
Just sayin'.
Dang. Was really rooting for Fuente but this just makes me sad knowing what it'll do to Foster
I'm in the exact same boat. Been pulling for Fuente hard, even tweeted at Sands and Babcock multiple times about it (as if they care, I know..), but now I am sad.
Ditto everything you said
Emo Bud makes my eyes water. I'm a girl who is prone to over analyzing things often, but I definitely read it as he wants the job. I don't think it could mean anything else, especially with what all is going on.
Like I said in the other thread, my brain wants someone new, but my heart wants Foster after reading that quote. He did help Virginia Tech become what it is... *sigh*
I was thinking that exact thing today. My heart really wants to see Bud lead this team into the future. Promote Torrian to DC and bring in a great OC to top things off. But my head wants new blood at the helm. I really hope whoever is hired is an offensive guy and lobbies hard to keep Bud on the staff if that is what Bud wants. Either way, I would love to see Bud stay in Blacksburg if that's what is in his best interest.
We all know what he's referring to. I love the guy, but I don't want him as the Head of VT football.
Plus one.
Yup, you are spot on. Bud needs to move on, because HC ain't happening here if what I've heard is correct (and I think it is).
So has the Facebook page and Twitter account of "Bud Foster" been verified?
No, but neither has Lefty's or Cornell's.
That's....a good point. He doesn't have the verified logo, however many other coaches don't either.
Maybe it's all misdirection as part of Whit's plan.
I'd love to have Bud as a head coach and let him make adjustments to his staff as necessary. He has shown he is the best DC in my opinion and his record speaks for itself. I do not want to make a splashy/swagger hire for some young offensive guru with no ties to the school, no background and doesn't even care about it just using it as a stepping stone for his dream job. This is Buds dream job and that is why he is the right man for this job!
I got myself caught up in the Fuente hype, but after seeing Bud's RT and really thinking about it.. Yeah.
I don't know how much more I can take this week...
Seems "give up" has to mean he is giving up on his dream of being head coach at VT. It is hard to say what he does next. Lots of openings means he may get a few looks as the head guy at another P5 school. I think Bud has more ideas than were implemented at VT because he knew his place in the locker room with Beamer as the leader and others as OC. Like a lot of others, my current first choice is a competent, energetic offensive coach that will be able to keep Bud around. Those that think a clean slate is the only approach forget all that is still right about VT football.
Final thought - I close my eyes for a second and imagine Bud coming out of that tunnel next fall and I can't help but smile. His players have always been willing to run through a wall for him and I think the team would do the same if he was leading it.
But the quote doesn't say "I have given up." I read it to mean the opposite (just a little poorly worded, which is certainly not unusual with "inspirational quotes"). It's hard to wait around, but giving up would be even harder to bear. So I will keep waiting and keep pressing on and keep doing everything I can to attain my goal, because it is all I ever wanted.
Damn it, Bud. making me feel all guilty and shit.
Folks, this is what happens when you start squirting feelings all over stuff. I am sure if Frank said tomorrow he wants to come back, with the state we are in, we would pee tears of joy and welcome him with open arms.
Well, the thing for me is that we wave our "family atmosphere" peen around all over the place, especially to recruits. If Bud gets the shaft, we can't really say that anymore. Is that worth a Fuente or a Smart or a Morris? That's the question.
I get your point. But I don't think Bud not getting the job would be him getting the shaft. Especially if there's someone out there who Whit thinks gives us a better chance at winning football games. I think it's 100% fair to think that Bud deserves a shot but I don't think he deserves one at the expense of winning football games which is, after all, the goal.
Oh, no question. I have no idea what the "right" answer is here, but for some reason I already trust Whit quite a bit. Just gotta have faith in him, I suppose.
Also, I'm not saying that I wouldn't be totally stoked on Fuente.
It's hard not to trust Whit. He's one of the best ADs in the business and has already done amazing things for the athletic department. My dream would either be A)Bud gets the job and hits a homerun and does absolutely amazing here in Blacksburg or B) Fuente is hired and Bud sticks around as the DC. He is so important to the football team and fanbase. He really embodies everything about that lunchpail D and I hope he would want to stick around even if he doesn't get the head job.
Can't see Whit hiring someone that will give Bud the boot. I really will go into an identity crisis mode if we lose Beamerball and Lunch Pail Defense the same year...
Really don't see any new coach retaining Bud. Maybe a lower level coach or two, but I would think the new coach is going to want his guys in the coordinator positions. The fact Bud really wants the head job makes it even more unlikely IMO. New coach won't want any confusion as to who is in charge.
I always hear this "his guys" talk. lefty wasn't "franks guy" but he became that. If im a head coach and im looking for defensive coordinator it really doesn't seem like a hard choice. who wouldn't want Bud. Do you really think his guy is better?? I would bet if he thought he had a chance at the new head coaches current school he would hire bud foster in a heartbeat. just ask kevin sumlin.....
This. We don't know how any other coach would view Bud Foster, because for the most part, Bud hasn't been available to be a DC anywhere else.
Plus, how do we know that any head coach we hire would be looking for a new DC anyway, because his previous one got another job or didn't want to leave the previous one?
He came close to leaving to take the DC position at aTm last offseason, according to remarks he made in an interview in March. Which made me wonder if it would be possible to pull Kevin Sumlin, who would be likely to keep Bud around. Long shot, but an interesting thought.
I'd like that pairing.
my guess is most HCs will ask 1) if he can coach and 2) if he can recruit.
Assuming the answers are, 'hell yeah' and 'not so well,' then there's a tough decision to make.
if I were HC and if I were convinced CBF was a recruiting liability, no way I'd sacrifice 14% of my recruiting power right off the top
He hired a downward trending, underachieving, overpriced Tommy Tuberville at Cincy. But he also lured Buzz (albeit an unhappy Buzz, when few other jobs were open).
When I take off the O&M glasses, my confidence level isn't as high as many others'.
mine isn't either. I am nervous because I don't want to lose what was established here. I definitely don't want RR. Very nervous if it is not Bud Foster.
I don't even know what to think anymore... On one hand, we have our head coach of 29 years retiring. Then we have our don't-take-no-nothing defensive coordinator retweeting a page that is probably ran by teenage girls. This has been one emotional week.
Right there with ya.
#JustSayYesToBudFoster
Feel like Bud as HC, Gray as DC, and Pep as OC ...
They should have done that three years ago.
In fact, they DID improve the offense. It's the defense that hasn't been playing up to their usual standards.
This would be a lot easier case to make if the defense wasn't part of the problem this year.
one "bad" year shouldn't ruin 25 years (at least 15 of which) of great defense. But you're right in that this is the worst possible timing for defense to have a bad year. Bud is still my guy though.
No, it doesn't... but what it does is further highlight the recruiting problems VT has had, and shows that Bud hasn't exactly been burning it up on the recruiting trail... Our next head coach will have to be a much better recruiter to succeed here than what we have seen lately, not sure that person is Bud
People seem to assume that the rate limiting factor in VT recruiting is the current staff and not VT itself....I think folks may be in for a huge awakening when VT recruiting is in pretty much the same place 5 yrs from now as it has been for the last 15 yrs.
The goal is for the team to not be in the same place 5 years from now that it has been for the last 15 years, especially the last 4. With that should come a bump, while not a leap, in recruiting. It's not unrealistic to think that we can regularly pull in a top 20 class.
marcb2
People seem to assume that the rate limiting factor in VT recruiting is the current staff and not VT itself....I think folks may be in for a huge awakening when VT recruiting is in pretty much the same place 5 yrs from now as it has been for the last 15 yrs.
I'll admit, I'm assuming that. I can't go along with the defeatist attitude that the best years are behind us.
I'm also a believer in Buzz for basketball.
There's a fine line between being an optimist and being a Pollyanna. Frank Beamer fought so far above his weight class for so long that many folks have come to believe success is inherent in VT and severely underestimate how much of the success was due to Beamer and his staff.
It's Pollyanna optimism everywhere about a highly competitive endeavor played on an uneven field that is likely making Frank Beamer the last Frank Beamer - not just at VT, but everywhere.
I hope that the next coach can equal or surpass Frank Beamer. But you won't be hearing me call for his head if he only wins 7 or 8 games, still recruits in 20 to 30 rankings, and runs a clean program that isn't going to embarrass the university just to win at all costs...at least not until the VT fan base and alumni pony up an addt'l $30+ million per year for the athletic program to really put VT in a position to have elite expectations.
VT's football program is different from the one Beamer found when he showed up in 1987. He's left it better than he found it.
It's not "Pollyanna" to say that VT has a great football program. They do. They have a great reputation and tradition, excellent facilities, a great fan base, and are attached to a great public university that is committed to the success of it's athletic programs. They're in a conference where winning is very possible.
It's one of the top open jobs as far as I can tell, so I don't think hiring a great coach is that big a stretch. After all, VT managed to get a top basketball coach with even fewer positive attributes.
VT may not have the most money, but they have enough to be competitive, and they sure have some great intangibles.
Sorry, but it is a bit pollyanna to think VT is a "great" program. Having enough money "to be competitive" is precisely what I'm talking about. Thanks almost entirely to Beamer, he is leaving VT with a very solid program - a competitive program if you will.
But not a great program by almost any measure. No unbiased observer would rank the VT program as one of the top 15 in the country, probably not one of the top 20 or perhaps not even top 25. It is simply not a 1st tier football program or job; it is without a doubt a solid 2nd tier program.
And there is nothing wrong with that. And that doesn't mean that it's impossible for VT to continue to maintain itself as a solid program or even improve it's relative standing or possibly make a college playoff if everything comes together at the right time. But those who think it's as simple as Beamer leaving and bringing a new coach in and then the sky's the limit on and off the field because "we are Virginia Tech" are being a bit Pollyanna in their optimism.
VT played in five ACC championship games, and won three of those. This team also played in a national championship game, and went to a few BCS bowls. It's been to 22 bowl games in a row.
So I think it's kind of stupid to try and pretend it isn't a great football program, or that it doesn't have potential.
The facts just don't support your conclusions.
So...
this x 1,000,000
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a faulty analogy if ever there's been one
Bud, even when compared to the rest of the staff is only an average recruiter at best... you can argue nobody else can come in and do better, but when others on the staff are already doing better it kind of undercuts your theory
Fortunately rational decision makers are nothing like message board posters who see their binary football world through a weekly roller coaster prism.
I can assure you that if Bud Foster doesn't stay at VT, his D's recent challenges as identified by the VT peanut gallery will play ZERO role in the eyes of every head coach in the country who is looking for a DC. They realize that Bud Foster has an intuitive sense for the game like very few and knows how to coach defense and young men and does it appreciably better than almost any other coach in the country.
The bidding for Bud Foster will be voluminous and lucrative.
I'd be happy if they could retain Bud as DC, but with a head coach who could turn up the heat on the recruiting trail, and fix the offense.
This whole notion that a head coach is going to make a significant difference in recruiting puzzles the hell out of me.
Looking at the recruiting data since 2002, there is very little evidence for this. Schools have blips here and there, but overall there has been very little change in the various tiers of recruiting since rankings have been published. There are a dozen schools that historically dominate the top 15 in recruiting almost every year.
The most powerful correlation to recruiting success is -- by far...and more than everything else combined -- program reputation (historical performance, fan passion breadth and depth, financial resources, media exposure/hype, etc). A distant second is location...probably followed recent performance. There seems to be little lasting impact (good or bad) as a result of coaching changes.
With very minor variation, pretty much the same schools are in the top tier and the second tier and so on -- regardless of coach -- year after year.
The only thing most schools can really do to improve its recruiting (short of moving the school to a football hotbed and/or population center or dramatically increasing it's annual donations) -- is to WIN. Period. But even then it's just relative improvement, not a dramatic, consistent move to a higher tier.
I totally agree. Bud will be on the market for about 10 minutes if he doesn't become our HC - and top schools are going to fire whomever they have as DC to make room for Bud. I'm projecting my own feelings here, but if Bud doesn't get the HC job here or one of the other openings, there's only 1 school I'd bet he won't consider being DC at - VT. Man has worked way too hard to get passed over for some young dude from a mid major or sorry ass RichRod. Bud has earned a 4 year contract. If it doesn't work out, there will be a new "it" coach we can try to get. And just because Bud is HC doesn't mean everybody on the staff stays. I agree with others that he's not going to let sentimentality get in the way of running things his way.
Pep Hamilton is not coming to Blacksburg to just coordinate. Period. He's doing that right now for a professional football team.
Edit: Just found out the Colts fired Pep. Still though...
I for one would not be upset by Foster being promoted.
2-3 years ago EVERYBODY was chanting for Foster. Why the change now?
Because we stopped winning.
The defense didn't stop winning until this year. And this year, two of our stud D linemen are playing injured, and our 5 star CB is on the shelf probably forever.
The only thing that I will fault Bud Foster for in the past 4-5 years is the fact that our linebacker pipeline has dried up in the last couple of years. (which is why running qbs run all over us.)
I think Whit bringing in Buzz also might have opened peoples' eyes as to how well we could hire if we truly gave ourselves a nation-wide search. If we do that and Bud is the best, then hire him, but we're doing ourselves a disservice to not look.
Not everybody; i never wanted Foster for HC
When most blamed Stiney's play calling, I pointed to recruiting.
Maybe I was wrong, and maybe i'm wrong about Bud, but
I'm standing pat
That said, if Whit hires Bud, I'll get on the band wagon and support the heck out of him
I think Whit does his due diligence, but at the end of the day Bud is his guy. Bud wants the job, and if Whit hires someone else, I can't see Bud staying. If Bud doesn't stay, then I think pretty much the whole staff leaves, and I don't think Whit wants to go down that road.
Bud for HC. Torrian or Wiles for DC. Maybe Lefty stays, maybe Lefty goes. Honestly, with the way the offense is playing this year, I'm okay with him staying. I got to believe Beamer and Whit have a plan, and that plan involves taking care of the current staff.
I.hope you're right! A couple parents of players told me their sons came here to play for Bud Foster n are real upset over losing that possibility. He deserves a shot as he carried CFB. Hire a great OC n I never thought I'd say this, but also keep Lefty as he has brought in Lawson n Jackson, who probably leaves if SL goes due to family connection. It's not like he's had an OL or QB to work with to get a good read on his abilities. If MB stayed healthy, we're 8-1, 7-2 probably! What's a couple years to pay a man for his loyalty? The staff did a great job in the Bowl game last yr w/O CFB. I LOVE CFB, buy his O philosophy has hurt us impo. Bud's defense has saved him up til the last 2 yrs n he's had tough injuries.
FWIW. :)
Head coach hires are crap shoot regardless of resume or pedigree. You got a 1 in 5 chance that'll it'll be an improvement and a greater chance that it'll be a step backward.
I don't see anything significantly riskier about gambling on Foster than, say, gambling on some guy who's had a yr or two of success in a weak MAC conference or some coordinator who gets similar results to Foster but at a blue blood program.
I'm not disagreeing with you that the odds of getting an improvement are less than the odds of getting a dud but where does 1 in 5 come from? Have there been studies to prove that (I think that's far fetched because it's so subjective) or are you just making that number up?
It's a somewhat subjective, somewhat objective view, but look at the head coaches hired at ACC schools in, say, the last 20 yrs and tell me how many were seen as meeting the expectations of their administration, alumni, fan base and local media for more than one or two seasons. How many lasted more than 5 or 6 years before being fired?
I'll bet it's pretty hard to come up with 10 and there have probably been 50 or so head coaches hired by ACC schools since 1995 (include the schools that have come in and the schools that have left for a bigger sample size).
The Mike London's and Chuck Amato's and Chan Gailey's and Randy Edsell's and John Bunting's are the rule not the exception.
And not to mention, Bud is without a doubt Whit's safest move. If it didn't work out, I don't think anyone would blame Whit for taking a chance on Bud.
I disagree.
The current staff has had the last three years to sort this out. They didn't really get there.
If Whit feels like Bud is the best chance at taking this program to the next level, he should choose Bud. If he thinks someone else is that guy, then he should pick them. There's no room for "safe" choices.
Right now is the opportunity for change at VT. You don't want to drag it out. Measure twice, cut once.
I'm with you. I don't expect Whit to necessarily make the "Safest" choice. But you have to agree, no one is going to blame him for taking a chance on Bud, but a lot of people might blame him if his out of staff hire is a disaster. That is all I am saying.
True, but that's the nature of the AD job.
I say "Swing for the fences!"
You don't win by playing it safe.
AGREED....the safest choice is the best candidate
The safest choice is also most likely to lead us to 8 and 9 win seasons and occasional appearances in Charlotte. High Risk High Reward
Heck,
that's why I don't like the idea of going with Richt. He's safe. A known quantity. We know that he'll have us threaten every team in the coastal and every once in a while we might even win the division.
I'd take Foster before Richt. Is there more risk? Yes. Do we know what we'll get? No, not necessarily. But there's also potential that he could be great. He's always salivated over having a fast paced spread offensive attack that lights up score boards. If he were the HC I'm certain he would change our offense to make it more potent while maintaining the LPD attitude that endeared him to Hokie Nation.
that being said, I think this program desperately needs a new jolt of energy and Whit needs to make a splash hire. Hiring Foster might make too much sense and I fear that it would do little to prevent the stagnation of the football program. I love Foster to death but I want him to cut his teeth as an HC elsewhere first. We need a nice shiney new toy who will invigorate the fanbase and recruits alike and improve recruiting by virtue of being young and exciting just enough to help us break through. I think that's what we need.
But I'm not Whit and I don't know anything about football or running an organization. I trust Whit to do what's int he best interest of Virginia Tech.
via GIPHY
This.
I don't necessarily want us to be conservative in finding our next coach, and Bud is definitely the conservative pick.
However, if we did decide to hand the reigns to Bud and it didn't work out, then I'd be ok with that.
How has Bud shown he is qualified to be HC?
Not, how has he shown himself to be a great DC?
Not the same Qs.
Arguably not even similar Qs.
As much as Bud means to VT I don't think he gives us the recruiting bump that we so desperately need. Would be a status quo hire and Whit likes to go for homerun hires. Best case we hire an offensive minded coach and keep Bud as DC, but I don't see him sticking around if he doesn't get offered the HC job.
None of the names being discussed would provide much, if any, bump in recruiting.
false
For Stability sakes, Bud to HC, Grey to DC. Bud deserves that chance. Period. The defense this year has had more than its share of injuries and starter turnover, I don't think Bud's defense is stale, I think we have some growing to do. If Grey becomes DC, what makes everyone think the Bud defense would stay in its recent form? Things have been very quiet about Kendall Fuller lately. Is he going to the NFL? I have heard some rumors that his parents require him to get his degree. If he is coming back, that helps this transition a great deal.
On the offensive side of the ball, look what we did against two of the best defenses in the nation the last 2 weeks..... Josh Jackson is great QB get. He's gone if Loeffler is let go. I'm not so sure Lawson or Motley can run the entire playbook. You want to show a family environment and stability, retain Loeffler. I wonder if he becomes QB coach and we get another OC, would he stay and would Josh Jackson still come here?
The biggest issue for the coaches in this situation is Shane. I think he needs to go do a G5 HC position or equivalent and prove his mettle.
I know this scenario won't be popular here, but... so what. That is what I think makes the most sense.
There would still be a couple assistant coach positions to shake up (DB coach, RB coach, LB coach).
Someone wrote recently that there is an issue from the past that would prevent Bud from being an HC. #sources?? Any elaboration available? I'd like to understand that a bit more, as that makes this scenario null and void.
If Bud can't be head coach, then the entire staff will be different next year. You wanna talk about a HUGE change, that's it.
Why does everybody assume that Bud to HC means he would be giving up his DC duties? We are limited on overall coaches, move Shane to Special Teams Coach (Something he actually has experience at), hire a new RB coach.
Lee Suggs for RB coach! Last I saw he was a RB coach at a small school in Ohio.
Or Kevin Jones who is apparently already giving Travon McMillan technical points that Shane apparently hasn't.
These are great ideas.
All Bud "deserves" are respect & his paycheck.
If he's gotten both, then we are even.
He's done little to suggest he can be a good HC,
but a lot to suggest he cannot.
Don't downvote if you disagree, say you disagree, and say why.
Downvote if someone breaks the covenant of our forum.
Capisce?
I down voted him due to his unnecessary comment about what a loyal and long term Hokie "deserves." Tone makes all the difference, but I up voted another one of his comments to offset.
I don't think VT should hire Bud as VT's coach out of sentimentality.
The only factor that's important is improving VT's performance in regards to recruiting and on-the-field results. Do people really think Bud has a better chance at that than some of these other names being mentioned? Was Beamer limiting Bud's ability to recruit? What would change about the program with Bud at the helm? I'd like to see Whit try and get the coach that he believes can take VT football to the next level.
I don't have a problem with Bud throwing his hat in the ring, but I'd like to see people making the case on his potential as a head coach, not that VT "owes" him.
Thinking that Bud would just continue with Frank's ways is a little naive. The man is a very different personality and I think would change this substantially (he's hinted at as much before).
He's done more than hint at it...he's flat out said it:
"The thing I let him know though, I'm not a status quo guy. I'm not going to be Frank Beamer. I'm going to carry on the foundation that Frank Beamer started and build on it. Just like Tom Osborne did for Bob Devaney, or Jimbo Fisher after Bobby Bowden. We built something here and I'm a big part of that."
Also read on here in some thread that he would prefer a more high-octane offense if he were HC
Well, an argument that I keep hearing for guys like Fuente and Rhule is how they've managed to do so much with evidently little to work with.
looks over the VT defensive record and recruiting rankings over the past decade or so... I think Bud has a case.
I'm having trouble reconciling this with all the sentiment about Frank Beamer's character being a reflection of Virginia Tech values. I don't want to read too much into your statement, but for the record, I think there are many other important factors in hiring the next HC than results on the field and in recruiting. Yes, that's the job we're hiring for, but character and integrity are more important to me than wins and losses.
But what I really wanted to reply to was this:
Energy. Passion. A different type of accountability. I think there is a fire and an enthusiasm that Frank Beamer used to bring to the job every day that is impossible or a 70-year-old man with serious health concerns to maintain 24/7/365. Perhaps Bud Foster could reignite that passion.
Buds D hasn't really looked very energetic or passionate this year... It was even pointed out by French in a game review
At times it has though, though the Miami game was certainly a low point. Still, this is literally the first year I can imagine ever saying that, and it's a year where the team as a whole hasn't been great and a year when the defense lost or had severely limited a handful of its best/most important players (Kendall, Dadi, Reavis, Corey), and they results have still been respectable, just not up to our usual standards.
OK, I assumed that we wouldn't hire a coach without ethics and values. So you can include character and integrity as important as well.
They've may have looked confused, but they haven't lacked energy and passion.
It's easy to find flaws in the person you've known for 20 years and be blissfully unaware of the flaws in the person you've known for 20 minutes.
Frenchs quote was
And another from the same write up
This seems like pretty obvious proof that Bud is a poor motivator and ineffective leader.
This seems like pretty obvious proof that Bud is a poor motivator and ineffective leader. /s
FTFY
I figured it went unsaid, but thanks for the fix
No, but that wasn't the intent.. One comment said that energy and passion would change with Bud at head coach. How can we really expect that when his current players aren't playing with energy and passion?
That's an absurd leap to make. It's one game in a season that hasn't been going well. We have 20 years of players running through walls for Bud Foster, but suddenly he can't motivate people based on the evidence of one bad day?
If you think our D has only had one bad day this year, I'm not sure we're watching the same team
One day where the effort wasn't 100%. Duke was rough at the end, but the effort I think was there. They did a good job of exposing the youth on the back end and lack of consistency in our linebackers. The D hasn't been dominant like we've predicted, but Miami is the only game where I would seriously question the effort being put forth.
It feels like you're just being argumentative now. If you truly think that Bud Foster wouldn't show the same type of energy and enthusiasm he's shown for 20 years based on a few lackluster efforts, then you can have that opinion, it's just unfounded.
Not trying to be argumentative... again, I was replying to the point made above that under Bud, our energy and passion would rise, I don't know what that is based on, it isn't even manifesting itself with his current players, I don't know it would magically engulf the entire team
Lack of energy and passion?
Ask Dadi about that.
That's great and all, but it would probably benefit us more if the entire D showed the same level of energy and passion while on the field that Dadi shows on the sideline
Sorry, man, I'm not going to post 85 photos of everyone on the team being enthusiastic. That's asking for too much time to debunk a point that has offered little proof in the first place.
What a great photo.
The feels! So glad I don't have Whit's job.
How bout a hug, Bud? I won't change anything, but you might feel better
Would probably change your spinal alignment, and probably not for the better.
Maybe his crush didn't text him back and then he saw an Instagram pic of her having drinks downtown when she CLEARLY stated that she was "Probably just gonna stay in tonight". And he was like "What?". Then he gets a text from her saying "Let's just be friends" and he said "Wait, I thought we were more than that" and she said "I never said we were exclusive. Now I feel you are being too clingy, I need some space".
Harsh, Bud. Keep your scowling chin-up, playa. Plenty of fish in the sea.
sounds kinda...personal
You guys really believe this is Bud? I am very doubtful.
Excellent point.
It's legit. None of the coaches have verified accounts (I don't think), but this Twitter handle is routinely tagged and used by VT Football (which is verified).
Exactly. I Tweeted at them all this morning and said they should get their accounts verified. Doubt they'll care, but yeah.
The Bud Foster I know made me nervous standing in the line behind him at D2. I can't see him scrolling through Sarah Mclachlan themed posts.
at least he was in front of you. If he was behind me, I'd excuse myself from the line or I'd have to sit there wanting to look over my shoulder, but afraid he'd see me do it...
More emotions. Look at Bud in the back late in the video
Tough!
http://www.ivanmorozov.com/blog/2015/11/press-conference-frank-beamer-20...
I hate this for Bud... I really do. But sometimes sacrifices must be made to become one of the elites of college football. If not hiring Bud Foster as head coach means we lose him as defensive coordinator, it is what it is. If Bud wants to stay as defensive coordinator, though, let him stay for the love of everything that is holy. Don't follow the "I-only-bring-my-coaches-with-me" protocol when you have the best defensive coordinator in college football in the palm of your hands.
Unfortunately, I don't see Bud staying if he doesn't get the job, though. Way back when things were simple and no one was calling for Frank to get fired/retire, it was easy for us to say that we wanted Bud to succeed Frank because we didn't know what mediocre seasons were like. Now that things hit the fan, we have become very cautious on who we want hired. I think had Frank ended on another ACC championship and maybe even something better, there's no doubt in my mind that Bud would be the next head coach.
If folks want to make VT elite in football they should double their giving...that would do the trick far more quickly and with a much higher likelihood of success than any new head coach hire.
How?
Seems to me the point of more money is to hire a great coaching staff and build great facilities.
There seems to be a chicken and egg thing going on here. Success breeds success.
Bud is arguably one of the top 3 contributors (CFB, MV7 then Bud?) for making VT a nationally relevant and dominant football program. When I first heard CFB was retiring I was really excited about the big changes ahead. I agree with many posts above that Bud would be a safe hire and the more I rationalize it I think it might be the right hire. He has spent his career as an understudy to a legend. Loves VT like we do. Give him a couple years to run the show. Hopefully our offense will continue moving in the right direction and the D will get back to their old ways, which we aren't far removed from. Completely cleaning house to make room for a young guy that has been successful for a couple years at a tier 3 program is so high risk that if we strike out it could put us back too far financially to recover. I am all for hitting the home run hire. But, how often does that happen? Bud is a guaranteed ground rule double. I can only imagine how excited he would be to fulfill his dream and I think that energy would be contagious.
I like your post, but I think Bud is way more than a ground rule double!
Also in regards to my point about recruiting transitions for next year, see the following:
1. http://highschoolsports.mlive.com/news/article/-8974547880692952105/introducing-the-10-finalists-for-2015-michigan-high-school-football-player-of-the-year/
From that article we have this:
We need this kid here next year! Heck make his Dad our RB coach (that would take him from Harbaugh.....hehehe)!
Completely agree. I definitely think Bud is a ground rule double with a clutch home run ceiling. We will have a few decommits and transfers with the CFB retirement no matter who we bring in next. We have to make sure we hire someone that can more than offset that if we expect to get back to the 10 win seasons and beyond. With all the competition this off season from other schools with deeper pockets it is just such a risk to take. Josh Jackson looks like the real deal to me!
I feel like Tech football 1993 to about 2020 might make a decent 30 for 30 one day...
Part 1: Reaching relevancy with the 1995 season highlighted
Part 2: Days of Michael Vick
Part 3: Program flirts with mediocrity in early 2000s
Part 4: Joining the ACC
Part 5: Dominating the ACC
Part 6: Slipping into mediocrity and Frank's subsequent retiring
Part 7: What we're about to witness.
All of this centered around Frank's legacy and how he changed the landscape of college football in terms of defense and special teams. Also talk about how we don't see coaches staying at schools for 20+ years anymore. Interview several former players and coaches. Would make for a real tear jerker.
The key is to get Part 7 right.
This is the shiny new toy syndrome we need to avoid. If we hire a new HC from outside, we will loose the entire present staff...all of them.
Terrifying isn't it? We could go from 29 years of ole trusty Frank, Bud and an improving offense to a COMPLETELY new staff with some of the coordinators and position coaches that may only have a few years experience at the D1 level that may/may not have strong recruiting ties to the area. The HC could be a great hire, but without the right pieces surrounding the HC we will be in a world of trouble. Imagine how bad things would have been when our offense was a complete terd and we didn't have a top 5-10 D to lean on.
Not to mention the players and recruits we will lose if we clean house. We are finally getting back up to par with offensive recruiting and I am worried that a new HC that isn't currently a household name might not boost recruiting as much as we are all hoping for.
If you can't tell....I am a worrier and a realist. And I am very worried.
I'm totally freaked out as well. The thought of losing Bud as well scares the
hell out of me.
Yeah, quite a wake up call this year having a middle of the road defense. I know we have had some tough injuries, but we are still better than most other defenses and that is kind of scary to think about. I am confident Bud will get it together if he is here next year. It is hard to rely on freshman to be perfect in a complicated defensive scheme and that has been our story this year. I am pulling for Bud because I think he has done his time and has earned the chance to fulfill his dream. I am also pulling for him because his job has been to coach the defense and he has routinely had one of the best defenses in the country. Maybe the same will apply if his new job is to coach the whole team. Who knows? I'd at least like to see him get a 2 year shot.
I am pulling for Bud because I think he has done his time and has earned the chance to fulfill his dream.
I think that's the WORST reason to hire him. The best reason would be if one thinks that Bud brings the best chance to improve the program from it's current state.
That means that Whit judges the package of Bud as HC, and his choices of OC and DC as better than the other combinations what are available.
I have seen no evidence that Bud would not be an excellent hire.
I'm saying that's not the way I look at this opportunity. There's no "right of first refusal".
The way to look at it is the HC that brings the best package to the table, and that basically is the person who is most qualified as HC, and will likely bring the best combination of OC and DC with him. It's the person who Whit feels has the best chance of taking the program up a notch.
I don't think there's a right of first refusal either.
I think there's a good chance Bud makes a very good HC and the lack of turmoil as the new HC gets used to VT, it's culture and the existing infrastructure, is a serious bonus. As well as likely costing us less money, freeing it for other things, such as recruiting.
Honestly can't see why Bud is not top of the list.
We'd be on the search for a defensive assistant coach and quite probably just some other assistant coaches while we confirm if Bud can handle it as top.
It's not as if he deserves it because of tenure but because he's earned by being one of the top coordinators in the country, for a very long time.
Besides, I think that if he doesn't get a shot, he leaves.
Give him a shot.
I think he's on the short list, and there are some advantages (and disadvantages) of putting him in the HC chair.
He's certainly the "fewer overall changes" route.
To comment on my words from earlier. That wasn't the only reason I am pulling for him. I don't want him to be our next HC just to satisfy my emotions. My Pros vs. Cons list for Bud has a lot more Pros than Cons. More Pros than any other candidate I have evaluated. Bud has earned it on so many levels. Just remember that the VT HC opening is being considered the best current opening in the country for a reason. Bud Foster played a massive role in this program being so desirable.
My heart is still screaming to give the man a shot...
That tweet was about standing in line to use a bathroom, that's it.
Bud is one of the best defensive minds in football.
He may also be an excellent all around mind in football.
I'd like to find out. I think it would be a mistake to not find out.
1. Barring a terrible interview with Whit, he should be our next coach. Any hesitations we have are even more of a speculation than our perceived future success of an "energetic, young coach"
2. Bud will not be VT's DC next year. The dreams of bringing an "offensive-minded" coach paired with Bud as DC is absurd.
It shouldn't depend on how well an interview goes.
Either he's the best head coach candidate, or he's not. No matter how much we like Bud, VT doesn't owe the job to him.
And what do you use to determine whether or not he's the best:
1. Past performance - Bud has aced this
2. Values consistent with the Virginia Tech way of doing things - done
3. Great mentor to learn from - done
4. Interview - TBD
So, I stand by my statement, it SHOULD depend on the interview, because I think he's aced everything else. I'm NOT saying we owe him the job. I'm saying he's already proved himself to be the best candidate (minus the interview where he lays out his plans and his vision for the future).
Bud has zero past performance as a head coach, and the head coach position is different from defensive coordinator.
What are the qualities Whit is looking for in a head coach? For those qualities, which of Whit's candidates is the strongest? Which can bring the strongest combination of OC and DC with their "package"?
I think it's very easy to hop on the "We like Bud" train, and he certainly brings some strong qualities (as well as continuity), but I think the analysis has to go deeper than that. Do you want to see some changes in VT's program, or not?
Neither is Kirby Smart. Morris has less than a year experience. Herman and Fuente have HC experience, but not on a P5 level. Coordinators get promoted. These things happen.
The questions you ask all come from the interview.
I don't believe anything I've said indicates that my views are simply "we like bud" train. His work speaks for himself. Any new coach is a risk. I think bud has a high floor and an even higher ceiling. I like his hard nosed attitude, his passion for the game, his players. I like his adaptability, and the fact that he has ideas of his own other than Beamer. I also think OC's are salivating to pair their offense with his defense.
I want to see the RIGHT changes in VT's program, not change for the sake of change. Bud is not Beamers. They're friends, not clones.
Hey, I think Bud brings something to the table.
At the same time, I wonder "if he has some great ideas about recruiting, why they're not implemented already."
I'm OK with considering Bud, but I'm not seeing it as a slam dunk. You brought up some weaknesses of other candidates. You need to turn that same keen analysis towards Bud. That's also Whit's job.
In a perfect world, this last three years was a transition to the current staff. For some reason the whole thing is coming up short. Part of the analysis has to consider the reasons for this. I've got to believe Bud is already doing his best.
I fail to see how it is absurd. Urban Meyer coming to VT would be absurd, getting an offensive minded coach with Bud staying is not.
I agree that the dreams of that are not absurd. How could you call dreams absurd?!
that being said, I do think it's far fetched that we could bring in an "offensive-minded" coach to pair with Bud. If Bud becomes HC I'm sure he'll go after a young OC with some experience who may prove to be a good "offensive-minded" coach and that would be the best case. If Bud is skipped over for a different head coach, especially a younger one, I doubt if he stays in Blacksburg. For his sake, I hope he gets a HC gig somewhere this year, whether its at VT or not. I've really enjoyed having him as a DC but it's unrealistic to think he will be forever.
I apologize, however...F-K DAMMIT! Reading too much into tweet. Can't help it.