Without the benefit of a detailed film review (of these candidates, I have the most film time on RichRod, Morris, Kirby Smart, and Pat Narduzzi), here is a quick shooting from the hip summary of where my head is for the coaching search.
Summary: I think, if I have a preference where Bud stays but they get a new HC, Herman is probably my first pick. I doubt it happens.
Best scenarions:
1) Bud Foster becomes head football coach. Pep Hamilton named OC. Torrian Gray becomes DC. Find a talented, energetic inside linebacker coach. (If Wiles would retire, my eyes would be all over JC Price from Marshall to become DL coach.)
Pros- continuity. I am sure Bud had input on the interest in Pep Hamilton. Good chance Searels (who Bud passionately promoted during the 2014 NOVA Hokie Club Chalk Talk) and maybe Burden would stay. Hamilton replaces the big loss of Aaron Moorehead in the DC/Maryland private school circuit.
Cons- Can Bud up the recruiting game in Blacksburg?
2) Any hire of Morris, Fuentes, or Herman would likely mean Foster stays.
Pros: Hot young coach. Sound offensive principles. Proven Recruiters. I think the Morris record at SMU is a misnomer. The offense (which was hot garbage last season) has improved and they decimated Baylor for a half. He has next to nothing to work with. Herman would be a GREAT fit with Lawson if he proves to be what the current staff thinks he can be.
Cons. You always worry about a coaches ability to be an executive and leader in a high profile situation with significant demands on their time. Fuentes and Morris worry me in that regard. Despite their success, they have never had to deal with significant demands on their time for non-football pressures. Herman, with his time at Ohio State, is possibly the best prepared. Also, Herman has been a successful OC not only with tOSU's talent. His offenses were excellent at Rice and Iowa State before coming to OSU. Of the three, he would be my top choice.
4) Kirby Smart with Pep Hamilton at OC
Pros- Tenure at Alabama shows terrific ability to recruit. Sound defensive scheme with robber principles.
Cons- A Smart hire would mean Babcock is completely cutting ties with the past and no Bud (although I could see them make a pitch to keep Gray.) Smart uses a 3-4 2 gap defense, which requires monster defensive linemen to eat blocks. Personnel wise, the scheme would be beneficial to players like Houshun Gaines and Tremaine Edmunds, who have good size yet are comfortable standing up. Inside linebacker would be a huge problem. Nose tackle would be a huge problem (settle down folks, he is a three technique 4-3 DT.)
Wildcard: Brent Venables/Pat Narduzzi
1) If Babcock is cutting ties with Foster, the ideal scenario would be to find a similar defensive minded head coach that has a similar philosophy. Venables has put out great defenses at Clemson the last couple of years even with a high speed offense. He uses a 40 front, one gap scheme that relies on edge speed. He is a DC at a large, upcountry land grant school. He recruits the southeast head to head with SEC schools.
Narduzzi had top 10 defenses every year at Michigan State. He also runs a 4-2-5 look with aggressive safety play- one gap. His recruiting classes were similar to VTs (more second tier based on national recruiting rankings.)
Both Narduzzi and Venables differ from Bud in that their system uses more size tackle to tackle and plays more north south. I have not seen as much slanting in their defenses. They have also had more luck putting front seven players in the NFL, and that would be attractive. Venables also could potentially bring one of Clemson's co-OCs with him.
I would also like Matt Rhule.
Absolutely not to RichRod. I don't know why, but watching Matt Campbell's offense the other night... I just didn't get a good feel that he would bring anything more than same ole stuff to the ACC. I like Mark Richt the man. I don't know if he addresses the issues in Blacksburg right now. Butch Jones has recruited a spectacular crop of defensive linemen (Kyle Phillips was my top recruit on the board last season) but his insistence on using Jalen Hurd, a stud I formation tailback just like Gurley, Forunette, and Chubb, and have him in the goofy spread running sideways is asinine.
With my track record, Whit will go hire Curt Newsome as the head coach.
Comments
If it's curt newsome I will no longer be a Vt fan period! I don't care who the coordinators are!
Honestly, whileI respect Bud and want him to be head coach for his loyalty, I think our best chance at future success involves Tom Herman as hc and hopefully bud as the DC, with Herman bringing in a good oc and staff, with the possible exception of keeping Burden. Herman is a salt of the earth, country boy, snuff dipping football coach. Sounds like VT to me
Long cut grizzly wintergreen *drools*
Herman is my #1 guy, unless Gary Patterson wants to make the move.
My biggest hangup with all the scenarios that don't involve Pep Hamilton is that none of the guys proposed (except Rhule) have any kind of track record in the Dematha/Maryland private school network. To me, that is the biggest talent mine with proximity to Blacksburg that the Hokies have not made a strong enough imprint on.
Between the Fuller family, Cam Phillips, Donovan Riley, Darius Fullwood, off the top of my head, the recruiting certainly hasn't been lacking. As a Good Counsel alumnus, I will say the notoriety of the private schools in the area has gone up in recent years. I never thought the WCAC championship would get national attention, but it does today. With Ivy league type schools like Duke, lolUVA, Stanford, it's a national presence in recruiting. Not to forget, these are heavily concentrated Catholic schools, with Notre Dame and Boston College being common choices for seniors.
As a fellow WCAC alum as well (Gonzaga), I definitely agree with this. To me, it started with Good Counsel's Jelani Jenkins being scooped up by Florida. Before then, I think most WCAC kids wanted to play at Maryland, and many still do.
Now, you have kids going across the country to play for Stanford (Hogan & Bademosi), and tons of recruits from the DMV area going into the SEC.
If Tech isn't recruiting heavily in that area, they are missing out on some top-notch talent close to home.
Agreed. DeMatha, Good Counsel, Gonzaga, Bullis School, Friendship School all have big time, well coached talent. Woodberry Forrest near Richmond also has been pumping good players out of state. Notre Dame has three Woodberry Forrest guys and one (Greer Martini) had a really good game against Georgia Tech at linebacker.
not sure I've ever heard anyone refer to Woodberry as "near Richmond." I guess that's just the difference between being from central VA and SWVA
Yeah, I wouldn't classify two hours and a different area code as "near".
As a Ricghmond Catholic school alum I'd like to see more Benedictine kids come to VT. Thought they were doing ok with having three BHS kids on the roster this year but haven't gotten a commitment out of them this year.
I am watching SMU vs Temple tonight until the Rangers game starts at 9. Maybe my opinion changes...
If you decide to switch over to Rutgers, I'm planning on keeping some notes on smu vs temple
nope, New York Rangers vs Colorado Avalanche. I am a huge Rangers fan.
Gotcha. Read that as Rutgers. (Goes and sits in the corner)
Go 'shirts. Thoughts on temple?
Can't do second half notes. Something came up
I'm not sure what you mean by this...were you dissatisfied with Buzz Williams hire? I'm confused
It is a joke. Innocently back when there were rumors that Don Montgomery would be fired from my alma mater, I joked that at least they wouldn't hire Curt Newsome. And then sure enough, they hired Curt Newsome. I am the kiss of death.
I figured it was a joke. I just didn't know the reference
Herman will 95% end up at South Carolina. I read it on their 247 page earlier and it seems legit. Him and Rich Rod are their top 2.
French do you think Chad Morris HC with Bud Foster DC would be good? And if that is the case is Loeffler retained as OC or no?
Not to be argumentative, but just bc USCe listed him in the top 2 on 247 does not mean he ends up there. Even espn has listed VT as more desirable and I believe we can afford a bigger paycheck than they can
I like Morris and think him and Bud would be a good fit if Bud wants to stay in the same role. I think that 1-7 is more indicative of how brutally bad SMU was when he took over.
No way Loeffler is retained if Morris, Fuente, Herman, etc etc come in. Rhule. or Addazio... maybe.
I'm watchin the smu vs temple game now. Not impressed w smu offense so far...
the system is sound. They have no talent. Furman would have a good chance against them.
That is most likely a reflection of poor past recruiting as many have said. So far the play calling has been good but not great
Note: Every play call is a great one when it works. Talent limits scheme.
Can't agree more. I was questioning more on the timing of run/pass in certain yardage situations. I don't know the whole scenario as far as talent, so just weighing in on logic
This makes me smile. We'll put
Pep as offensive coordinator is intriguing. It's a step down the ladder though. I wonder if he'll try to wait out another NFL job.
It is an interesting balance. So much of that would depend how much Bud was involved in those OC interviews. Even though it seems counter-intuitive, hasn't Bud made past comments that if he could pick an OC, said OC would be a high tempo spread guy like Morris at Clemson?
Pep used a very different look at Stanford. (I can honestly say, I didn't see a snap coached by Pep in the NFL)
I believe he was high on Tony Franklin.
Either 1 0r 2 with Morris or Herman would be a Splash in my opinion
French you and I can lead th anti RR club.
Right there with you guys.
Too bad French didn't provide RR detail. I would like to hear reasons beyond "I don't like his face!"
French has talked at length about RR schemes, recruiting and win record. It's all poor.
Exactly. French has went over everything several times. RR isn't even close to the top of the potential coaches out there and when you add in the fact the guy couldn't even treat his own alma mater with any semblance of respect, there is no way anyone can make a rational argument that he should be the guy.
Agreed
1) Zones everything in the running game, and his offensive system is incredibly unreliable when you absolutely must make a 3rd and 6.
2) High profile Michigan failure (with two top rated recruiting classes) plus failure to put skill position players into the NFL means that now, his offensive system will not be attractive to recruits.
3) 3-3-5 stack defensive scheme that he prefers would not be a good match up with ACC Coastal Division offensive systems. If he, as the head man wants to run that system, that means no Bud Foster.
4) His less than ideal departures from West Virginia and Michigan are worrisome. If he has "been the guy all along" then was he giving his best to the Arizona football players who made a commitment to him? I know it is a profession and coaching changes happen, but if he has engineered this, then it is a bad look.
5) People can minimize them all he wants, but his programs at WVU and Michigan both received sanctions. Players who left both programs expressed significant public dissatisfaction.
6) "Bring together Hokie Nation." This hire would be perhaps the most divisive hire Babcock could make.
and:
7) I don't like his face!
Seriously though, I hope RR stays far away from Blacksburg
In all fairness, he really does have a terrible face.
FWIW Clemson is not a "large" university...it is about half the size of Va Tech.
22k to 29k isn't close to half. But your point that their smaller is taken.
Dream scenario is Morris as HC and playcaller with Foster as DC. Hell, if Morris calls the plays, we can even keep Stiney on for recruiting. Shane can coach the long snappers.
Great read, until the last sentence then I got depresed
Your last paragraph is nothing to joke about and you should feel terrible, French.
With regards to Tom Herman, I believe he would take the USC job if offered. Tom Herman was raised in LA County and attended college in southern california. Being a former California kid who was raised in San Jose, CA, let me tell you the pull of USC in california pop culture. I realize this may not sound very logical/rational, but I just have this gut feeling that Tom Herman is destined for the USC job.
Of course this is all dependant upon USC offering him the job. If the USC AD wiff's on Tom Herman, they will rue that decision.
Rule or rue?
Leg up for the correction. Thank you.
I live in LA, and holy crap, do people here think USC is the greatest thing ever made. They can do no wrong. It's highly annoying as well.
I'm with you there fellow hokie. My dad's side of the family are all in L.A. metro and that whole metro area basically adopted USC since the departure of the NFL. Pete Carroll could rob a bank there and the darn manager would still ask for an autograph while holding the door for him to exit the premise. But that's fandom for you.
In the past few days on here, I've read that Herman is a So Cal kid through and through and in a different thread that he's a down home dip spittin' country boy. These coaching discussions sure are fun
Born in Cincy, Played college ball at California Lutheran University, first 10 years of coaching experience came in Texas. Source
I guess it's hard for anyone not raised in California, but USC is California's equivalent to Alabama in the state of Alabama. It has that kind of pull. A personal anecdote that might illuminate my point:
San Jose, CA is located almost 400 miles north of Los Angeles, is a pro sports town (49ers, Sharks, Lakers and Golden State Warriors), yet growing up, I knew and cheered for USC. One of the proudest moments of my life was getting that acceptance letter in the mail from USC for undergrad school. My mother still regrets that she couldn't send me to school there.
Has anything changed at USC-w to encourage you the AD can now make good decisions?
Pat Haden has made a lot more good decisions than bad. But yes, hiring Lane Kiffin was bad and hiring Sarkasian was unfortunate.
If anyone wants to see any of the first half notes from SMU-temple I took, message me on twitter @GingeVT and I'll try and post them sometime
Edit: first time doing notes on a game. These are more reactionary feeling type notes on style of coaching (which doesn't necessarily reflect the hc in question) than an in depth breakdown. Also, if no one wants them my dog gets a new piece of paper to play with
I agree with you, French, about Bud being the HC. I feel the program needs continuity.
Disagree. Now is the time to bring some new ideas in. We've had continuity for too long.
To me, there are pros and cons with Bud as head coach. Still, I think the man earned the opportunity.
Agreed. Bud has certainly earned a shot.
Bud has earned the opportunity, and if for some reason it doesn't work out, we can go to the outside with the understanding that a whole new era is needed. I think Bud will surprise folks.
He has earned the opportunity to interview.
Saying he has earned the job is just as ludicrous (or sane, depending on how crazy you are) as saying Frank deserved to retire whenever he wanted, regardless of program health.
It's worth noting that my strongest feelings of Bud's ability to be the HC stretch as far back as '07, when we were flirting with a (still extremely unlikely, due to the human correction factor) chance at a NC berth without a functioning offense.
Seeing Bud's Defense as a supreme example of competence, contrasted with the FireBrianStinespring- FCS-esque offense, I think I might speak for a lot of fans when I say that I felt then that the idea that Bud should simply be awarded the next in line when Beamer retires should be automatic and written in contract. No matter that he hadn't had the HC experience, knowing then that he could regularly adapt and plug in ~ above average talent to keep an amazingly effective defense on the field was enough to say "This man deserves a chance".
Fast forward 8 years, and the man hasn't gotten any younger. His 2015 defense is about as bad as it has been under him. And I imagine a few fans have left that bandwagon with the more popular "Clean Slate and spin the wheel of chance" crowd.
But I don't see a glaring weakness, even in 2015 (age, lack of recruiting "ability". While several here have pointed out his "recruiting weaknesses", I'm not sure how a fiery & passionate coach could really suck at that, and I don't see any real evidence that he does other than admitting that it's not his favorite part of the job).
I do still see passion, playing well above his level with the talent he has and a continuous ability to adapt and admit he needs help when he does (a la going to Iowa to figure out how they stopped GT's triple option). Giving up several DL to patch up the glaring hole on offense doesn't hurt him in my mind, either, and I don't know of too many times the defense pilfered the offense for bodies.
He's itching to be the HC somewhere decent where he has a chance to succeed. He'd really like to stay home and do it. I understand that one day his golden ticket at VT will expire. Hasn't yet for me. I'm not Whit.
He's a helluva coach.
He's been DC at VT spice cows invented cream for coffee.
I can't imagine how he'd make other than a competent HC. It's not like he wouldn't have the administrative help. He's been tutored under one of the best.
The guy knows offense in order to be able to defend against them so well.
I'd give him a shot.
jeez, I know some people didn't like the spice girls, but I've never heard someone refer to them as the spice cows before. Is there some story behind this egbert?
This alters the time/space continuum for me. Spice cows.....who knew?!
Maybe it's an obscure Dune reference.
To me, there are pros and cons with Bud as head coach. Still, I think the man earned the opportunity.
I disagree.
I think he has the right to make his case, just like any other potential coach. There are some pretty strong pros and pretty strong cons related to giving him the job. His case would be stronger if the defense were hitting on all cylinders this year.
VT doesn't owe him the job.
I think you have to look at Bud objectively, as compared to the other candidates for the job. My preference would be to retain him as the DC.
I agree that there are pros and cons to all of the candidates. Besides HC experience relative to the other candidates, recruiting is the next criteria. There is no guarantee that any of the candidates can improve recruiting at VT. Everybody is talking how Whit is going to surprise the football world with this hire, which he may, but not if he chooses RR after all of this chatter on all message boards.
While I disagree I legged to negate the petty downvote
Tech wants Rhule. We need that Philly/MD/DC presence and a young recruiting guy. He's also likely to keep Bud. Rich Rod is a smokescreen that's what the statement by Whit was all about. The chances of Richt are 0.0 it's not the direction we want to go.
Why would Bud stay for a defensive minded coach?
Why wouldn't he?
A defensive minded head coach is going to want to implement their own system. Bud runs a very unique scheme.
Rhule is a former linebacker, but my understanding is that he offensively focused as a coach. After a year of being a DL coach at Temple, Rhule coached a variety of offensive positions (QB, Run Game coordinator, tight end coach, and offensive coordinator) before leaving through the Giants and then returning as head coach.
Everyone is writing off Bud for the HC job. I think it's unlikely, but I don't think it's a bad choice. If we miss on Herman, Fuente and Morris, Bud would be my next choice (unless Whit can get Les Miles, or Mark Dantonio, or a P5 head coach I like more than Richt).
French - can you have Bud getting the HC as your #1 Best Case scenario (not sure if your best case scenarios are in order or not) - can you elaborate on this?
French, what are the chances of Todd Washington getting interviewed, if not head coach, coordinator? He always seems to have a media presence with VT related material, and has had NFL success. I'm curious to know if he could recruit.
I don't have any inside information. I am watching the same as everyone else. Nothing really would surprise me in terms of the hiring of offensive staff.
I may be in the minority here, but I think Shane would make a great HC. I agree that him as a RB coach is not the best fit, but he seems to say the right things, is engaging to the players in getting his point across. I think he manages situations appropriately and is a good PR person. He's young and energetic. He is very much in the same mold as Dabo with perhaps more class. So what do yall say to keeping the staff intact, moving Shane to HC, and bringing in a new ST an RB coach?
I agree that Shane could be a good HC one day, but VT is not the program to test the water.
His route to the HC job at Virginia Tech is via an HC job at another university first.
Perhaps...Murray State?
Hey, who's coaching Murray State now? Hires from there have worked out well in the past.
Curveball -- Mike Gundy at Ok State?
Gundy is an Oklahoma boy. Why would he leave his home state, T Boone Pickens money and all that talent in OK/TX? Love Gundy, GO POKES, just don't see him leaving a Top 10 team he's brought to national relevance on his watch for a rebuilding job across the country.
Note: I've spent a lot of time in Oklahoma, surrounded by Sooner fans. They made me an Oklahoma State fan.
When he get snubbed for the playoff this year while undefeated maybe?
You're right, highly unlikely. But, he's a candidate that would seem to fit well with what we need.
I think Bud stays at VT as D Coord with RR as head coach. It's been stated they like each other....if Bud would stay for others he would certainly stay for RR.
I think it's safe to say there are several picks that would 'divide the Hokie nation,' including Bud, Shane, RichRod and any defense-first coach.
Right now I'm indifferent regarding Fuentes and Herman, Morris is a few rungs down. Richt is a wild card. No one else comes close to those guys. But then I place a high priority on recruiting like a lion.
I think it's safe to say the nobody will satisfy everybody. Other than a few dozen message board posters, I don't think hiring Bud Foster would divide Hokie Nation in the least. Losing him as DC might though.
Whoever it is, winning will repair virtually any divide.
Watching highlights and a name came to mind, Pat Fitzgerald. He is the hard work ethic type of coach that fits at Tech and has turned Northwestern from B1G doormat to consistently ranked in that 20-25 range. His offense has never lit up the scoreboard and I am afraid he would have the same loyalty-to-a-fault that Frank has and want his offensive staff to come with him. I am a ware that he played at Northwestern and may not want to leave, but if he had better talent he might be able to jump to consistent top 10.
I would love Fitzgerald. But, Fitzgerald means 1) No retention of Foster and 2) Whit would be hiring a defensive minded head coach. If this was a complete rebuild, I would prefer a defensive minded coach because I think it is easier to win with defense than offense in today's football. Great defense is already part of VT's national brand. That said, I think (given the cost associated with Bud's contract through 2019 and his stellar reputation and standing within the fanbase) that Whit wants to retain Bud and bring in an offensive minded head coach.
One more thing regarding Morris. If he became the head coach, I would hope that he could bring in Jeff Scott (Clemson's current Co-OC and WR coach) as his offensive coordinator. Scott is a big time recruiter and very good position coach. It would cost Whit some serious money, but that could really elevate the recruiting around Blacksburg.
Any thoughts about Dan Mullen down at Miss. State?
Hardest place to win in the SEC besides Vanderbilt. I think he is a very good coach.
Once a decision for the HC has been made, can "French off the Cuff" become a thing, a la Peter Griffin's "What really grinds my gears"? With all the tension and increase in BP all over Hokie Nation as of late, I think a little "Off the Cuff" humor would ease the souls of many. : D
A bunch of my "off the cuffs" would probably raise some blood pressure around here!
"I gotta lot of bones to pick with you people!"- Frank Costanza
I ran the FEI numbers from Football Outsiders for the teams these rumored candidates have coached.
*Years Coached
*Overal FEI Rank unless otherwise noted.
Still not a fan.
*Which shows it has more to do with his percieved off the field character.
*Overall FEI Ranking
* Years Coached
*Houston overall, Ohio State Offensive FEI only
* Years Coached
*Memphis Overall, TCU Offensive FEI only.
Fuente has to be my favorite offensive minded coach right now. Three years as the OC at TCU, and then four years as HC building a program. There is also clear improvement every year with him as HC. I think this has to be the reason for him to be the guy. Tom Herman could be a one year wonder with somebody else's players.
maybe. But look at OSU's offense before he arrived, while he was there, and after he left...stark contrast there
Not sold on Fuente he has an NFL quality quarterback, doesn't seem like a great recruiter(and has little experience recruiting the East Coast), and would likely get rid of Bud. I think Morris makes more sense
This makes no sense to me. Fuente recruited Paxton Lynch to come to Memphis, Lynch had practically no offers (24/7 lists Florida, Florida A&M, and Indiana) and he's developed into a hot name in the NFL draft discussion. So the fact that Fuente recruited him and that he developed in Fuente's system means nothing? If he had arrived at Memphis and gotten some stud QB to run the show, I'd understand, but this criticism he's getting with respect to Lynch just boggles my mind.
*Defensive FEI only
Kirby has only been DC since 2009 I think.
* Years Coached
Fuente and Herman look like the strongest candidates to me...if I'm looking at this right
Yeah. adding that with everything else. It's pretty hard to argue Hermans not going to be a top-level coach at the next level.
If anything it shows the names associated with the Tech job are all on paper solid hires.
Heck even Dino Babers has Bowling Green with the top ranked Offensive Efficiency this year, that's pretty impressive.
I kind of dismissed the Herman Ohio State years because he wasn't the head coach and there are too many external factors. I took from this that either Fuente or Morris are going to be good options. Not saying Herman would be bad either. I just think there's more going on that might help Herman that he won't have here at VT.
But hey, if it's Fuente, Morris, or Herman then consider me happy.
So I don't think it's any of the guys out there...
If we look at it like the Buzz hire - I think it's going to someone like Dan Mullen or David Shaw - someone that is getting after it at a good program. We don't need to hire the flavor of the week.
The flavor of the week is very dangerous. I expect Whit will value experience and dependability more than upside. This is all the revenue for a $75M machine he is dealing with here.
It's hard but I'll probably stop 'hoping' for a coach from now on and just wait for Whit to announce it.
It's to the point where it'd be like hoping we hire Shaka Smart so badly and being dissappointed when Buzz Williams is named head coach.
Looking like #2 is very probable at this point
sports center just announced les miles future at LSU will be decided by eod......press conference to follow
DOES THIS CHANGE OUR COACHING SEARCH?
Unlikely. LSU is going to go after a P5 coach or NFL coach with established success.
I was thinking more like les miles coming to VT, NOT LSU sucking up one of our candidates