Yet another top VA recruit not heading to Blacksburg. Lake Taylor DE Jalyn Holmes commits to Ohio State http://bit.ly/197N5mB
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Yet another top VA recruit not heading to Blacksburg. Lake Taylor DE Jalyn Holmes commits to Ohio State http://bit.ly/197N5mB
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I don't know what's worse: losing top notch recruits to outside schools or losing them to the cavs
at least when we lose recruits to the cavs they'll still lose to us...
Even though we knew he wasn't coming here, this is still annoying...
Based on his twitter feed, he really loved being at OSU. Would have been nice to have him, but at least he isn't in the ACC. Wish him the best.
Well see him in 2014 and 2015 when we play the Buckeyes.
And by "we'll see him," you mean, "we'll read-option the &@$% out of him with #FordorBucky4Heisman" and make him look extra foolish for not picking VPI.
Shoot. He may decide to head home... Take some onlines.
Could be worse...we could be Cleveland Cavaliers fans.
A parting "gift" from Curt Newsome?
I know we still have 7 months to go but this recruiting class is not going the way I had hoped. I sure hope that the coaches can get back in with some of our top targets. I thought this year we could have possibly have pulled in a top 10 class but so far not so much. I like the guys we have landed but hate missing out on top talent in VA every year. Am I becoming Chicken Little or is this becoming an issue that needs to resolved immediately ?
I feel like many are stressed about this class, it's August and commitments mean nothing right now. Come Feb, then we can be worried.
We still have a whole season ahead of us. Many kids could just be waiting to sees what happens with not only our season, but theirs too. Some who have a low ranking right now can still elevate.
Anyway, it's just too early and we are worrying about juniors in HS making decisions. I'm sure our coaches are busting their asses, and truly only time will tell.
Oh, and concerning Holmes going to OSU, his tweets came off that he was extremely happy on his visit and he didn't even want to come home. Sometimes kids just fall in love with a school. Like when we fell in love with VT, can't hate em for that.
In the same vein, our coaches are trying to pull top prospects from other states as well. So you gotta expect it both ways. We can't just get all the VA stars and then top stars in other states.
People can sugarcoat it all they want, but the 2014 recruiting cycle has been a disaster. Yeah its only June but not getting Hand, Brown, Blanding, Moss, and Holmes is not good. Frank Beamer is a Legend but recruiting won't change until he retires. The next AD has to hire someone young and can recruit his ass off like a Dabo Swinney. Beamer also seems to make every wrong in game decision when it comes to big games and don't get me started on how Stinespring ineptness has kept offensive talent away from Blacksburg
hokieNskins, your name makes me think you and could get along. But -2 turkey legs total?
Yes, Stiney wasn't any good at coaching. He has been a relatively effective recruiter, but on offense, a disaster. Still managed to pull in Tyrod, Logan, RMFW, DW4 (not sure if he was the primary recruiter in any of those, but they still came to play in the offense).
As far as Beamer's in-game decisions, the only ones that really kill me are when he tries to go for it on fourth and short when we are in field goal range to 'set the tone'. It usually works in setting the tone, but it is usually with a fourth and no. Momentum swings in the game and we almost always seem to lose after one of these.
But when it comes to big time recruits, there's a fine line to walk. Up here a few years ago, JoePa went to visit the top recruit in the country to try to get him to come to Penn State. Didn't like his attitude when he met him, but still they wanted him. Guy chose to go to Ohio State. You may have heard of him, big QB, tattoos, etc. Suspended when he got into the NFL for a few games to pay his NCAA punishment. Backup to - get this - Matt McGloin, the walk-on who didn't get a scholarship because JoePa was busy offering the other guy. Moral of the story is that sometimes not getting a big time recruit is a blessing in disguise. Sometimes egos get in the way of team building. And Beamer seems to like taking Trey Edmunds and JC Coleman types, whose who buy in and focus on team.
Agree with everything you said, but I think the belief is we want to get the best players we target. I think we target good players who are a good fit for the "VT-way." I don't care if we miss a player who is big headed or not a good VT fit, The problem is when we don't land the guys we want/when we miss out on players we put a lot of effort into recruiting.
I agree with hokienskins in terms of Beamer and recruiting. It won't change until he's not our coach because all of the big losses and lack of recent big wins. Yes he's a legend and a great coach but when your resume is as long as his, the lack of a championship (and other things) stand out as red flags to these recruits. It's just the way it is. Our new hires certainly can help, but until we get a new young head coach, I don't see the recruiting situation going as we'd like it to go. That's why I hated reading comments on this site comparing us not getting these recruits to Kentucky getting big recruits - They can preach change and a new beginning that these kids will buy into whereas with us, what you see is what you get. Not saying that "what you see is what you get" is terrible because with us, they see ACC dominance and ACC trophies, but these kids want national dominance and crystal balls (that they probably won't get at Kentucky either but at least they can sell it better than we can).
I'm not saying I want Beamer gone, just saying that even though most may dislike what hokieskins said, he makes a valid point.
So this kid wants to go Dot Urban Meyers' Brown Eye!? Way to Fail kid.... way to FAIL!
OSU dline = nasty
What's with all the new people spewing hate and getting down voted? Pretty rough to lurk on the outside and then get shelled your first post...
It isn't hate vtfly. I've been a fan for 25 years. Just speaking my mind and if people disagree thats cool. They can look at this program through Maroon colored glasses if they want too. I couldn't care less about voting down or voting up or turkey legs. That's not why I enjoy visiting TKP.
I think downvoting is starting to get a bit out of control. We shouldn't downvote for disagreeing, but I'm seeing that a lot in the last few weeks. Downvote when people are abusive or blatantly offensive. I disagree with some of what you said hokieNskins, but I don't see it as hateful.
I didn't mean the post was seen as hateful, I was more using the casual term of "spewing hate". My apologies if that was mis-understood. I was mostly trying to point out a lot of what you just said, people are jumping all over the down vote button. IMO I agree that we seemed to have missed on some of these recruits, but we also have a brand new offensive staff, new recruiting territories, and are coming off a down season. I think it's easy to look in from the outside and say Dabo is a great recruiter (which he seems to be) but who knows what he's telling these kids and/or what rules he may be breaking. Butch Davis was a great recruiter, as was Lane Kiffin, but at what cost? I guess my "maroon colored glasses" are that we thrive at finding and developing talent and as much as it sucks missing some of these high profile guys (and it does suck) I think this new staff has a lot of potential especially down the road.
Spot on. I think what we all have to remember is that we're competing for the hearts and minds of kids who want glory. They lose sight of the fact that VT has consistently produced great talent, despite the lack of a National Championship. Now we've had a down year, so that's all they see. Staff turnover might make them uneasy, but I think our new crew is going to do fine on the recruiting trail. Our performance on the field in 2013, and maybe to a larger extent 2014, will determine how recruiting goes for the foreseeable future.
They all flock to Bama (and others) because they see that as the easiest route to quick gratification and the high life because of recent success. I'd rather have recruits like CJ and others we've had in the past, the guys that want to be here, who love VT, and want to win to represent their school and their fans. Not too long ago (when our streak of 10-win seasons started), Bama was second-to last in the SEC with something like 2 conference wins.
Spot on about Butch Davis and Lane Kiffin.
I usually downvote for the combination of pessimism and insults. Unless the insults are directed towards LOL, then I only downvote for blatant classlessness. But if it is funny and generally non-offensive, upvote it is!
I never downvote unless my finger slips. Isn't that right Horseonatreadmill?? :)
;)
We haven't been posting on TKP for the last 2 years so we must be "NEW" VT fans. Asshat.
Name calling, please don't do that again. Thank you.
eventually the downvote system should take care of itself, right?
Yes. At -25 he, or any other user, is essentially locked out of the site.
Ah man, he is? And I was looking forward to being an asshat again...ah well.
I really hate that he got banned. I completely understand the system though. IF he was an authentic Hokie fan I hope he would get another chance to join the site if he wanted to, after now knowing the rules.
I really think the rule "avoid being a jerk" doesn't need to be said... You shouldn't need to be told that one.
It is Wheaton's Law afterall:
"avoid being a jerk" reminded me of the old jerk alerts.
Makes me laugh that the jerk alert is for foul language and at ~0:20 someone yells "GET THE F%$# OUT!"
edit: R.I.P old video board
remember when they would play the acc sportsmanship ads and when the little kid in the uva jersey came on screen we all booed him? classic.
I loved that. The little UVA and Miami kids just got booed so hard... It was one of my favorite commercials.
Ha, that was awesome. I remember hearing some girl nearby ask, "Really? We're booing a little kid?" I said, "He's wearing blue and orange in Lane Stadium. He gets booed."
I think it was when we played at UNC in 2008, they showed that video and their fans booed Duke while we booed UVA. It was great
So if enough people disagree with you they can down vote you and get you banned from TKP. NICE
It's a self moderation system. Down voting was never intended to be the effect of a disagreement. I originally wrote this when the system went into place, "If someone posts a funny picture, witty reply, good statistic, something you like etc..., then give them a turkey leg. Conversely, if someone flames or wages a personal attack, then down vote. Do not down vote for disagreeing with someone's opinion. In general, vote up way more often than you vote down."
Disagreeing with people is normal. However, doing it in a respectful way is mostly an irregularity on the Internet. However, the community here is unlike most others. The vast majority of discussions are intelligent and polite (unless we're just posting GIFs, in that case: LOLZ.)
gwmcnew was wrong when he said, "I understand you don't come to another mans house and start shit but this isn't your houses so quit crying." Actually, this is everyone's house, the commenters and posters here make this place special.
Who said anything about you being a new fan? I said you were a new person. As in a new person to the site.
I'm confused...am I on Techsideline?
From just a disagreement to full on anger.
All I can think of right now:
I don't know about you all, but when you fire three coaches in the offseason and hire new ones, it doesn't exactly translate into "EXCITING NEW RECRUITING!" right away in my mind, even if the new coaches are reasons to get excited.
I recently joined TKP as a posting member. I've been reading it for about 8 months however. I could care less about turkey legs or if anybody disagrees with me. I say what I want to say and i would say it to their face. "ask my Fiance". I understand you don't come to another mans house and start shit but this isn't your houses so quit crying. I love reading French's breakdowns on Offense and Defense strategy. I'm trying to learn as much as I can from him. It still doesn't excuse these kids who are products of Va. snubbing they're neighbors and communities by going out of state cause the SEC is hot right now. They can do what they want to, it's their decision to make but doesn't mean I have to like it.
In the last 2 years we have put Drew Harris and now Holland Fisher on hold cause they aren't academically eligible. If this was Alabama they would be in the 2 deep by now. I call that shooting myself in the foot.
I'd rather we didn't bend the rules for these kids. Life doesn't bend and there is far more to life than football. I'd rather we do things the right way and encourage our kids to be successful in all aspects of life and not end up as scrubs after they fail to make it to the NFL or when their career ends and they have nothing else to do.
Tell that to D Hand who went from wanting to be an engineer to Sports Management degree. These kids want to go to the NFL. They believe their futures are in the NFL so why make life harder by taking calculus or physics when you can take power point and public speaking. I'm here for the football not club sandwiches.
Hand is a smart kid and will have no problem qualifying. You just mentioned kids who didn't qualify academically saying that they would be in the 2 deep at Bama. They are two different situations. Is your argument about us not making concessions for these kids or about us not getting elite talent? You can't convince a kid who doesn't think a school is the best opportunity for him to go there anyway. You are right that these kids believe their future is in the NFL, but we offer the same chance as any other school. If you are a star, you will shine and you will get drafted. Simple as that.
Lest we forget many of us are not only fans, but alumni? I'm sure some athletes get academic perks that aren't available to the common student, but lets not dumb down our requirements for a few 17-year old prospects. Yes success on the has its advantages, but at what cost?
There's little we can do if the kids can't qualify. Even if they can barely make it, what would you rather do, gamble on a kid who may flunk out because he's not ready for college (which wastes a roster spot and a scholarship while he's on the team, assuming he can qualify initially) or go after some kids that will make it while the others get themselves properly prepared?
The out-of-state snub argument doesn't hold water for me at all. You're saying we should only recruit in Virginia? Some of our best players are out of state, but instead we should say, "Sorry guys, honor your communities." Would we turn away an interested 5* recruit from Florida, Texas, etc? Recruiting is national, no two ways about it. Maybe they're only looking at those schools for the wrong reasons (see my other post above), but there's no disrespect to home state schools there.
Agreed. Has anyone even brought up that maybe these kids don't want to go to Tech? I knew I wanted to be a hokie my freshman year in high school. Maybe D hand or some of these other kids wanted to play for Saban or Bama all their life. Maybe they don't like collegiate gothic, or want to be far away from home. There are so many variables, it would be impossible to say why, unless they spelled it.
Sometimes, it's better to have a walk-on who wants to give the Hokies his all, than a Bluechipper who could be a liability.
I'll take a team of Cody Grimms all day.
http://www.nfl.com/news/story/0ap1000000207520/article/cody-grimm-arrest...
Grimm was arrested twice in the past 4 months for public intoxication....An entire team of Cody Grimm's wouldn't win many games but they sure would have some kickass parties....
In his defense one was back in Blacksburg and one was at a wedding. Both places are meant to have a few cold ones.
MADD will be visiting you soon, haha.
Way to pick the two worst examples of your argument about VT's extra academic requirements for freshmen (primarily an extra math class beyond the NCAA minimums)
Harris and Fisher can't enroll at any NCAA division 1 school. Neither of them met NCAA minimum requirements. Harris because he didn't get credit for an online course or two, and Fisher because he didn't meet the required GPA/SAT combination. And while Harris is having to go the JUCO route and probably won't play for VT, there's a very good chance that Fisher improves his grades/scores enough during a post-grad year at FUMA that he'll be able to enroll in July 2014, maybe as early as January 2014.
I am having trouble getting my head around this. If Harris is just missing a couple classes (that he didn't get credit for) then why can't he just go and take those classes (at JUCO) and then come to VT? It seems pretty straight forward to me. I would think that would be easier than Fisher's issue with grades and SATs, because he hasn't proven that he can get the grades/scores yet. Is VT not willing to give Harris credit for the classes after a certain point?
Its complicated due to the timing of some of the paperwork from his highschool and some NCAA elibigibility rules concerning h.s. graduates who don't have the needed classes.
The thing we're used to seeing is guys like Fisher, who have taken all the required courses but don't have the GPA and/or SAT to qualify. The NCAA allows them to take a post-grad H.S. semester/year and get their GPA up and/or take the SAT again to get their scores up.
In Harris's case, his High School said "Online Geometry 101 is good enough to graduate from our school! Congrats! here's a diploma!" meanwhile Online Geometry 101 was not accredited by the NCAA. (I don't know if that was the exact class but you get the idea) So from the NCAA's perspective he is not elible for Division 1 and his h.s. career is over because he has a diploma. Complicating things is that he enrolled in his post-grad semester /before/ his highschool put in his paperwork, which screwed up his ability to take post-grad classes somehow. So now he has to graduate from JUCO to become eligible.
I hate when I read things like this. How are these kids "snubbing their neighborhoods and communities?" I have friends who traveled out of state for college athletics. My community never felt snubbed; we supported these kids throughout their athletic and academic careers.
I'm a Maryland native, but still remember how I fell in love with Virginia Tech immediately after touring the campus for the first time. Why do some people seem to believe that a Virginia resident has some obligation to attend a Virginia school? If these kids go to some other school, and fall in love with it the way I fell in love with VT, then I wish them the best of luck (except when we play them of course).
I think we all understand the frustration that comes with losing big time recruits, but Virginia Tech is an educational institution first and foremost (if you don't agree with this, look at the numbers: Athletics grosses $60-$70 million annually, research gross ~$400 million annually). I'd love to see Harris and Fisher here, but if they can't meet the minimum academic requirements leaving high school, how are they supposed to perform academically in their classes at Tech? Perhaps VT just isn't the school for them...
EDIT: My apologies if I rehashed anything previous posters already mentioned, hope I wasn't too redundant.
Glad to see others bringing these points up. Can't understand how people can blame a coach if a kid falls in love with an out of state program.
Just because someone is talented in football it doesn't mean they are under any obligation to stay in-state for college. I grew up in NJ and felt no obligation to stay at home and go to Rutgers. (thank God!)
Of course, I am not 6-5, 300lbs and can rush the QB....
First off, this isn't the Civil War. These kids aren't
Most of these recruits aren't even 18 years old yet and are faced with a world in which there is no precedent. The rise of the internet has given way to the ability for colleges to find and recruit players they wouldn't have even heard of previously, and vice versa.
Just imagine being a top high school football player now.
These are just a few reasons why we're finding an increased amount of players leaving the states they grew up in to go and play 3-4 years in a different location.
To be 100% honest, unless you grew up a VT or UVAlol fan like many of us did, you'd probably want to leave Virginia to go play in a bigger stadium in a program that has much more national exposure on the internet, ESPN, and magazines than VT or UVA does.
Most of our top players have been a result of the family connections that Beamer & Co. have made it a point to instill on this program.
We'll never really reach that plateau of recruiting success until we can finally give these in-state recruits the promise that they can win the national championship here.
Don't forget that an increasing number of games are becoming nationally televised every year, meaning that the kid's parents can still see him play if he goes from VA to play for USCw, for example
Parity is starting to spread to football. I feel that in basketball it's been there for a while. if i'm some talented kid and want to play, I'd go somewhere that would put me in right away. Yeah, I could fight for a spot at Bama, but if I go to UAB, then I can be on TV and have my name called all the time. Look at some of the top NFL players right now. They didn't all go to top schools, you got kids from Troy and Miami of Ohio pulling it in.
Anyway, someone in my work building was telling me about his cuz, who is at Dematha (the kids name is Deonte or something). The kid is a 3* defensive end and recently decided to go to NCSTate. His whole reasoning, because he was going to get to play. Yeah, he visited OSU, but he knew he wouldn't have to redshirt or fight 3 deep to get a starting job. This is partially why I think recruiting could be all over the place. So many factors involved.
A few more things to consider:
Blacksburg is a quiet town. We (Hokie university, alumni and fan base and coaches) are known and respected more for our quiet, confident, and hard working demeanor than the flashiness of say a Southern Cal or LSU can offer to a recruit.
We still do not have a NC, or a great record against top ten teams. We cannot recruit our way into success. We have to earn it - whether that is fair or not - Mike London will agree. Nick Saban, considered today's finest at building dynasties in CFB, treats building a program as a process (attention to detail, slow developing but once set into motion, a process that inexorably breeds more success).
Majority of our Alumni (including yours truly) is middle class paycheck to paycheck families. Our alma mater lacks a super wealthy benefactor like Oregon or Oklahoma State has. And, VT does not have a huge alumni base like Michigan or a lavishly giving fan base like Alabama that make new facilities so much easier to undertake. Our coaches can do only so much to change that.
Finally, my understanding is that (based on newspaper articles and such) that VT was not really significant in football until Beamer came along. No tradition like Ohio State or Notre Dame.
I believe a typical football recruit cares about all of thee things. Now we do have several good things in our favor, but let us not have delusions of grandeur - there are ample reasons why a top notch recruit would want to go somewhere else.
End of rant. :-)
Your understanding of our relative lack of history and tradition is pretty spot-on. I can count the number of pre-Beamer bowl losses on one hand, and I can count the number of wins on one finger.
Also, we finished the season ranked in at least one of the two major polls just 3 times before Beamer, and never both polls the same season, if Wikipedia can be trusted.
Not to mention some NCAA issues with Dooley.
I'm reading that as "UVA to the LOL". Love it
Maybe reverse that. LOL to the UVa.