There have been a lot of comments made about how Foster is a weaker HC candidate b/c of his recruiting, but what is the evidence of Fuente's, Morris', Rich Rod's, Herman's, and Fedora's recruiting performance?
Questions:
Which blue chip recruits are they responsible for?
Which diamonds in the rough are they responsible for?
What was their role in the overall recruiting strategy of the team?
How have their personal recruits panned out?
Last minute flips (either way)?
Before we as fans start writing off our beloved DC b/c of his "ability to recruit", lets give the other candidates an equal level of scrutiny.
Forums:
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Morris, supposedly single handedly, landed Deshaun Watson, who was the #1 QB recruit in 2014
Herman, within a few months of being at Houston, dramatically increased the star rankings with three 4* (rivals) this year.
However, I barely follow recruiting enough to answer some of your questions for our current staff, much less for guys that I paid no attention to before we started looking for a new Head Coach.
Looking at Rivals, Herman was the recruiter for JT Barrett (4 star), Corey Smith (4 star), Dontre Wilson (4 star), and Mike Mitchell (5 star) at Ohio State in 2013.
Morris is listed to a few for Clemson but Clemson seems to have a handful of good recruiters and it hasn't been just one guy.
Usually, Head Coaches aren't listed as the recruiter, so you probably won't find much on Rich Rod. Same for Fedora, who has been a head coach at UNC and Southern Miss for some time.
Fuente can only do but so much at Memphis and it's already been noted that he's succeeding with 2/3* guys.
Don't most of the guys we get now come from position coaches recruiting them, I don't think there would be a huge difference in recruiting if Bud were the HC
That's the argument against bud.
got 'em
This is what Bud has to overcome. The perceived recruiting problems now are viewed to be his problems. We know nothing about the shiny new objects except the good things we want to know. And, it's ridiculous to think that Bud doesn't want better talent; it's possible he's a better closer with the big whistle than as a DC.
So after being Franks right hand man for 25 years, Frank can override him to not seal the deal on a major recruit?
If you mean culture of recruiting its even worse, since Frank choose his son as recruiting over what Bud want, to change the culture
All I'm saying is that the role as head coach is different than as coordinator. Not sure what you mean about Shane. What does that have to do with Bud? Are you saying that if bud was the recruiting coordinator he would be more qualified to be a head coach?
So Bud is finished talking/tweeting/calling a recruit and feels like Sweat is on the Verge of Commiting to VT. But Sweat always talks a bout Jimbo does this and that.
Bud calls up Frank
Hey Frank, I've got Sweat, Next year is the year for VT with him on our team, if we can close this out. I need to promise him you are going to fly over and see him at his house/class/football game on _____.
Frank over rules Bud
Way to go Bud sounds awesome but that really isnt my way of recruiting. thought I'd drive over to Dansville for some diamonds in the rough watching for next years recruiting
What did Bud do next...
Maybe something like that
Still confused. If it is true that Sweat was looking for the head coach at VT to match the intensity of the head coach at Florida State, which I doubt by the way, how could Bud do anything about that as a coordinator.
Here's what I don't understand about your position:
If the HC is responsible for the results of the recruiting class, then Frank is responsible, not the coordinators.
If the individual coordinators are responsible for the results of the recruiting class, then Herman/Fuente MAY not deserve the recruiting reputation that everyone is giving them.
Also, your Shane comment makes no sense.
The fact is we don't know where the breakdown in recruiting is. If we take it as a linear process, is it the position coaches not setting everything up correctly? Is it the coordinator failing to sell their side of the ball to the recruit? Or is it the Head Coach failing to finally close the recruit and get that final commitment?
Delete
This assumes that anybody will make a significant difference. And that is a huge assumption.
This speaks volumes. Whit knows better. Hire Bud as HC.
I would be shocked if Bud is the new hc.
If Bud was going to be the HC, he would be the HC by now. He made his pitch last year. After that, Whit outlined that he was looking for better offense and better recruiting. That's pretty clear.
I agree with this. again. weird.
I disagree. The only situation more awkward for the locker room than the one we're in now is if Whit anoints Bud as Beamer's successor before the end of the season. It's one thing to have the AD say your job is not secure. It's a completely different thing to have a fellow coach making that call. At least now everyone in the locker room can say they're in it together.
I don't understand your point. Are you saying that as soon as Bud is handed the keys he's going to fire everyone he doesn't like? I don't see how, if Bud is announced as next coach, that would have any adverse effects on the locker room. Why can't they still say that they're in it together? What is it about Bud that would create a divide in the locker room?
Bud as head coach gets to decide who stays and who goes. What if he wants some new blood at certain coaching positions? He either has to tell lefty (just as an example) that he's kicking him to the curb, lie to the guy's face and tell him he's keeping him, or say nothing concrete and foster uneasiness. You can't tell me a coach go thinks his fellow coach is going to can him will have the same job performance as one who thinks they're all in the same boat.
I mean it kinda sounds like you're expecting these coaches to act like teenage girls. I don't think that's the case. IF Bud were named the next coach I'm pretty sure the first order of business would be to come out with a statement that he's happy with the direction the program is headed and there won't be any changes at this time. Behind closed doors he'd make it clear to all coaches that "we still have a job to do to send Frank out on a high note and that will be our primary concern. We will evaluate where we stand at the end of the season so lets go out there and finish strong!"
....or something. I doubt very much that it would get catty.
people are people. The higher the stress of the situation, I've found, the more likely people are to act like teenage girls, whether they like to admit it or not...
I have little to nothing to contribute to this thread other than that I was disappointed when this didn't say "Talkin' Bout the Noles."
I saw "Talkin' Bout Practice"...
via GIPHY
Let's say Bud is permanently limited as a recruiter. That doesn't mean he wouldn't be able to make recruiting better as a HC. A big time offensive coordinator can have a drastic effect on recruiting (see: Chad Morris - Clemson) regardless of whether or not Bud can get the job done.
Push back: His recruiting and defensive scheme have potentially been the reason we can't recruit elite LB and defensive end talent.
Rebuttal: An increase in offensive production -> offensive recruiting heats up -> winning more games -> better defensive players will come to a school if they want to win + be a part of DBU/Bud Foster's elite defenses. Clemson's defensive was freaking horrible in 2011, but recruits saw that Clemson was on the rise and came to Clemson anyway, and not just offensive recruits.
Bud recruited Teller, McMillan, and Ken he can't be all that bad of a recruiter