Sad to see this happen.
#Hokies AD Jim Weaver just told me tailback Michael Holmes is "permanently separated from the university." Decision by student judicial bd.— David Teel (@DavidTeelatDP) July 9, 2013
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Also, my first time heading up a blog post. God bless this site. Thanks, TKP staff.
Yeah this is too bad. It sounded like he got caught in a bad situation defending his girlfriend. I wish him the best in his future endeavors.
can only go by what has been read on news, etc but i just feel he legit got the bad end of this. still dont get how he was the only one that ended up getting charged with anything
There were two others who were arrested and charged the following day:
http://blogs.roanoke.com/andybittervirginiatechfootball/2013/04/22/holme...
i do believe the charges were dropped in the end
Student judicial board - smart kids
I can't say I understand why they would basically kick him out of the university for this, but we may never fully know the real story about what happened that night. I wish him the best of luck though.
between this and DJ Reid prepping, landing Shai McKenzie just became a priority.
This was the first thing I thought of too. Not that I'm unimpressed with Marshawn Williams, but we really need to establish depth at tailback again.
Last time we played Alabama our starting running back from the previous season couldn't play (Evans was hurt) and the world met Ryan Williams. Where you at Trey?
Two clips of Ryan Williams, two references to great blocks by Brooks.
We also had a return for TD, which is now possible since Holmes won't be fielding kicks.
Can the student judicial board also do something about scheduling ECU for the next 50 years?
Best of luck to him. Your ball now, Coleman and Edmunds.
i just find it hard to believe that if random student gets in a fight off campus and gets in trouble for it, they wouldn't be "permanently separated from the university."
blind justice indeed. . .
What are the chances that HD says Virginia Tech is now screwed because we lost our starting running back? Honestly though, this is terrible news for the kid, but good news for the running back rotation.
The student judicial board was tired of Mike Holmes returning punts.
nice
I wonder if their is more members of the SJB than fans at #LOLUVA spring game?
Its pretty unfortunate but I dont think it will have much, if any impact to our team. I do agree on building better RB depth moving forward. I was just watching a replay of the 2010 acccg against FSU. i would give my left nut to have an evans/wilson/williams like backfield again
If Harris ends up playing for us next year, with Edmunds and JC, you're going to owe us a left nut.
I wouldn't hold your breathe for Drew Harris. Ship/Sailed.
http://www.nj.com/rutgersfootball/index.ssf/2013/06/rutgers_recruiting_r...
Yeah I already gave up on him. This just confirms it. Oh well.
Welp. I guess vtandy gets to keep his nut.
"I'm pretty open, but I'm just trying to get my grades down," he said. This was a quote by Drew Harris regarding his reopened recruiting status. He may want to focus on getting his grades up.
This just makes the summer preparation of Trey and J.C. that much more important. Although it's a tough loss, I still feel like those two can carry the load just fine for us.
Meh. If anything, it forces the coaching staff to only use 2-3 running backs unlike last year.
This was just a regular fight on the street right? No guns or weapons involved? I don't understand why he got kicked out of school. Students get arrested every weekend in Blacksburg and they aren't "permanently separated from the university."
Completely agree. I'm legitimately disgusted. A kid who got in a fight he didn't even start is:
I'm ashamed of the student judicial body. The punishment does not fit the crime.
Do we know all of the details? I really hate passing judgement either way from just our hearsay...
I guess it is conceivable that there are details we don't have. But there was an independent eye witness whose testimony was used in court and from everything I've read about it, Holmes was within his right to protect himself and his girlfriend; the only thing he did wrong was take it a bit too far.
"Too far" is a very ambiguous term. I have to believe that messed up here... I'm sure he had the right intentions, but if he plead guilty, and a student board kicked him out of school. there's gotta be some details we don't know. He hit a girl hard enough that she's suing him for $25k for a nose job? That's beyond protection.
Whatever the case, I hope he straightens out his life.
If breaking a guys cheekbone and blackening both eyes is a "bit too far", then you are right.
The CA stated that the reason he still pled out to the misdemeanor was that he went to far. Beating on the guy after he was down. You CAN defend yourself, you CAN"T stomp a guy out after he's down.
Areed. Unless you're marcus vick and it was after running for a first down.
Well Played. Elvis has left the building.
To look for a nearby fax machine.
Well played! Go Ravens lol
See now I never understood that part of the law. I know it's the law, but if someone attacks you then it's their fault that you're kicking their ass. If someone is gonna be an ass clown then you should be allowed to try to knock some sense into them.
Welcome to the George Zimmerman trial.
Seriously though... what you're talking about is actually not that dissimilar to that whole situation that is garnering nationwide debate/attention at the moment.
I was thinking that same thing. Except in the trial it seems that Zimmerman went out of his way to start a fight with Martin, then when he started losing, he shot Martin. Now is it technically self defense when you start trouble with someone and then have to use self defense when you realize that you're in over your head? Personally I think that would be a horrible precedent to set, but I guess we'll see what the jury thinks.
If your simply losing the fight? No. If your life is in danger because the other guy is slamming your head against the pavement? Yes.
Although I don't think the state will come close to even proving that Zimmerman started the fight, at least according to the evidence I've seen and court reports. Not sure we'll ever know what really happened that day.
Not to keep talking non-football/Hokie related things but: The 911 call proves that Zimmerman started it. They told him to let Trayvon be because they were on the way. Zimmerman ignored the requests of the law and killed a teenager. What more needs to be proven? It's clear that Zimmerman started it and ended it. If he would have listened to the operator and let the police do their job then Trayvon would be alive and he wouldn't be on trial.
Would the student council also kick the girl who started the fight out of school? If yes, fairness all around.
Barber and Bitter were tweeting about this and she is still in school and on the track team, so no fairness.
Well then there is bias. Big time.
I'm pretty sure the student judicial body can't fine someone $13k or give them a jail sentence, so you might want to be ashamed with the state judicial system far more than blaming students. Also, I think it's safe to say this wasn't a cut and dry case and something fairly bad must have happened for it to turn out like this. I'd rather have a person, football player or not, removed from the university than end up with an Ausar Walcott situation down the road.
Apparently Holmes had a choice to be reviewed by student judicial board or by the "professionals" in student services, which means the leadership board of the Residence Life department (those that run the RA programs in the student halls and review JR's). I would be extremely surprised if student board kicked him out based on one incident. For them to expel anyone there needs to be a history, or pattern as they say, of issues. If the leadership board in Residential life voted on it then they certainly may have kicked him out on one incident as they are, from my experience (RA for 1 year and Head RA for 2 years), highly prejudicial people. They may have wanted to make a statement.
So.................................................................................................................................
......................should..we extend a walk-on invitation to michael dyer....?
That very thought crossed my mind this weekend after seeing a report about him, but after thinking about it for about 30 seconds, it occurred to me that it would be kind of like buying a used car....you could just be getting somebody else's problems.
I can hear your voice trailing away...methinks no. He wants to go to Arkansas anyway.
If I heard the details correctly, it sounds like Holmes was instigated but then he also finished the job, let's say, too thoroughly. Too bad.
Nope, but I bet Derrick Green feels like a nincompoop for going to Michigan when he would have had a chance to start day one at VT.
Is he buried in their depth chart?
I don't know what happened that night and I don't know what evidence the student board had to consider, so I won't comment on whether or not it was the right decision.
I always thought that Holmes had what it takes to be successful on the field though. I thought it was possible he could really take off in the Loeffler/Grimes zone scheme, but that's all a moot point now. In the long run, only having two RB's to really focus on (JC and Trey) is probably a good thing. Both of those guys are young and need all the reps they can get.
He didn't show good instincts for the system in the spring. He was impatient, cutting inside before holes developed. In many cases, he had great holes that he missed just smacking into the line.
Eh, agree to disagree.
Maybe I have a blind-spot when it comes to Holmes, but I thought he looked pretty good when given a chance to get north and south. Didn't see many "great" holes, not in the spring game and certainly not last year. Edmunds has better top end speed, no doubt about that, but he hasn't blown me away with his vision and he doesn't pop off the screen to me the same way that RU or Wilson did.
Obviously I think Edmunds will be more productive then Holmes was last year, if only because he'll get more snaps and he'll be in a significantly better system. However, I'm not convinced Holmes wouldn't be just as productive in the same situation.
What running back doesn't look good when given a chance to go north and south? That's not what defines a good or great back. Being able to dictate how you get north and south is a sign of a good back and something Holmes could not do. And like French said, often times when he did have holes he didn't know what to do with them. Agree to disagree.
And Edmunds hasn't had a chance to blow anybody away with anything. He hasn't played in one meaningful game yet. Let's let him play in some actual games before we start to compare/associate him with the poor play that Holmes gave us.
I think the overwhelming negative perception that fans have of Holmes production is completely unwarranted. Especially when you consider how high most of them are on JC Coleman.
Coleman averaged 4.5 YPC last year.
Holmes averaged 4.0 YPC last year.
HOWEVER, Coleman had the advantage of having 13 carries vs Duke (the worst YPC defense Tech faced all year). Holmes had 2.
Take away that one game out of 13, that one game where any RB on the roster would have been successful but only one of them got 13 carries...
JC Coleman averaged 3.2 YPC.
Holmes averaged 3.98 YPC.
Coleman averaged 1.6 YPC vs Clemson, 2.6 YPC vs FSU, 2.8 YC vs UVA, and 0.9 vs Rutgers. Coleman had double digit carries in all of those games except Rutgers, where he had 7. Holmes was only given the benefit of 10+ carries twice all season, with 4.2 YPC vs GT and 5.5 YPC vs Cincinnati.
Coleman had 40 more carries then Holmes and was just as ineffective except for one game against LITERALLY the worst rushing defense on Tech's schedule. And yet fans still blame Holmes and lift-up Coleman. I just don't understand it.
Not sure where all the JC Coleman stats came from; didn't mention him in my comment once. My comment and negative view of Holmes has everything to do with his lack of skills/production, nothing to do with any other back on our roster.
Well for arguments sake, do you have the same negative view on Coleman's production that you do of Holmes?
I do not have the same negative view of JC, nor do I think he's our next best thing or even the answer to our running problems. However, I think Coleman's upside is much higher than Holmes' was. I agree that HokieNation is naively high on JC, but I think it's largely due to the potential upside aforementioned. I'm not as high on him as everyone else is (I've never been on here raving about him, honestly) but I wasn't as unpleased with him as I was with Holmes.
I don't think JC is the answer, but I do think he can be a good change of pace or pass catching back. Holmes on the other hand, I didn't see any use for him.
Who has more hype?
JC or LT3
that psn outage was some bullshit
I'd love to see that graph extended thru 2012...might look like the stock market from a few years back.
From my perspective, it seems that most Hokie fans (not you in particular) were generally upset about the complete lack of a rushing attack and lashed out at the starting RB, which was Holmes early in the season. By the time Coleman was getting the majority of the carries, the fan base had moved on to blaming the coaches. Yet their initial impression of Holmes as ineffective stuck, despite the evidence that no RB would have been successful running behind that line and in that system.
I'm interested as to why you'd be less pleased with Holmes then JC? If the evidence shows (and I think it does) that Coleman was just as ineffective as Holmes, why would you dislike one more?
I would say that it has to do with the fact that Holmes was a r-Fr so he had a year to get in the weight program, gain knowledge of the playbook, and become a college RB whereas Coleman was a true Freshman that didn't have those advantages. You could assume that Holmes should have been set up to have more success, but never showed much whereas Coleman showed more promise for the future. Last year aside, I still say that Coleman shows more promise because he is more of a playmaker on the field and can be used more than Holmes. In theory, both will be replaced by Edmunds, but Coleman has the ability to contribute in ways other than just running the ball.
Undoubtedly. I'm excited to see him showcased in Loeffler's 5-wide package.
Holmes sucked at returning punts.
This.
Personally, i always thought holmes ran timid and kind of soft which also led to the negative perception of him
same thing with T. Gregory. Billy Hite's whole philosophy for the running backs was "never let the first tackler take you down," yet Holmes and Gregory seemed to go down waaaaaaay to easily.
JC actually broke some tackles, and in my opinion showed the best burst/juking of all the RB's.
Holmes and JC are two completely different players. JC is quick and can make people miss. Holmes is...uhhh...well THAT's thing about him is that he didn't really have a true running style. He wasn't an overpowering guy; he wasn't quick; he wasn't like Ru where he would burst through the line and then cutback and leave defenders in the dust. He was just average. He had gaping holes to run through in those plays in the Cinci game where he accumulated all of his yards. I know JC had the same during the Duke game, but he housed both of those runs. There is no way on earth that Holmes does the same.
I'm not saying JC is the answer, but if Holmes can't make or find his own holes, then you are left with two backs who rely a lot on the O Line. And when one of them takes it all the way and the other just gets a first down, then it should be obvious who the fan favorite will be.
I do. If he is the starter and gets most of the carries, I think this is a lost season in the making. Good kid, works very hard, excellent speed. But, I do not see him as a workhorse back. I hope he proves me wrong, but I would prefer to see Edmunds get the work, and then use JC as a change up and get him in space.
And, based on the spring game and the film from other scrimmages, Edmunds was the guy who jumped out on film to me. He was clearly the best back on their roster back in fall scrimmages (I went to two, and he was getting yards on the #1 D running for the #3's), and looked just as crisp in the spring. He also is a one cut back, which is desperately needed in this system. When I did the film review of the spring game, Holmes had several holes that he missed because he was too anxious to get up field, and instead ran into a wall. Edmunds didn't have much space, but he had 3 very solid runs, and the long run that was called back was essentially all him with no hole. Kid could be very very good.
Absolutely, completely, 100 percent agree
I'll be the first to admit I was all about Trey playing linebacker when he got to campus.
Glad I'm paid to be an idiot on a message board and not filling out depth charts!
If he and JC are healthy, things should be OK. I'm curious to see what Mr. Mangus can bring to the table. No doubt he'll get a good look once camp arrives.
Wait, you're getting paid for this? Where's my check at?
haaaaa...about that...I didn't even come close to correctly saying what I was trying to say.
Haha, I figured. I just found it amusing so I wanted to point it out.
I think Edmunds will be a very good running back, but I will go to my grave believing he would have been the best player at backer we have seen at VT, including Jamal Smith and Xavier Adibi.
This blog should be titled "Michael Holmes got royally screwed by his ex." Would anyone suspected this is what she premeditated all along?
Why is everyone assuming that the student judicial board was handing out punishment for the incident that resulted in his arrest? Being expelled could be the result of multiple incidents that were not reported publically adding up.
Yeah my guess is that there is a bunch of stuff the public doesn't know about in regards to this incident and his behavior in general. Like I said when this originally came up, I know someone personally who got beat up by Holmes and his friends over drugs. And if I had to guess, this wasn't the only time this happened.
Personally, I always found him to be a pretty average running back. None of his high school or college tape really ever stuck out to me. He looked like a JV player compared to JC in his high school tape and JC was playing against way better competition.
For his sake, I hope he gets his shit together. For our team's sake, I hope JC and Edmunds are ready to step up.
Holmes was thought to be a step too slow or too timid for D1 coming out of HS, but I will always remember him for his 500 yard, 8TD 1st half in High School vs. RE Lee.
other than that, its probably better he's gone since we aren't good at rotating backs. If Coleman and Edmunds both get hurt, we were screwed anyway.
I had 6 JRs and never got separated from the school...
Well, that depends on what your JR's were for, and I also assume that you never beat someone's face in. Just a thought.
No beating someones face in, keg party on campus was worrisome. Some other incidents at the time I remember being bad, but can't think of what they were now, haha.
None of us know what really happend during the fight. The student judicial board is well-trained and sees cases like this all the time. Holmes probably had Jimmy Turk representing him throughout the entire process. If Turk wasn't able to get him off these charges, he probably fucked up.
As a community, we have to take their judgment on face value. Second-hand accounts and gossip do not allow us to hold a definitive opinion. Does this suck? Absolutely. No sane individual wants to see another individual's well-being get compromised (especially when all of us are so emotionally connected to the success of Michael Holmes). But at the same time, the culture of the Virginia Tech community is more important than any individual. Once our culture is compromised, the values we stand for are no longer meaningful.
From a football perspective, I'm not worried. It's not unheard of to have success at RB as an underclassman. Ryan Williams, David Wilson, Kevin Jones and Lee Suggs are all examples of men who made a tangible impact on the field at a young age. JC Coleman and Trey Edmonds had storied high school careers. There is a lot of potential for them to succeed this year.
Testify
Thanks for the intelligent moment of lucidity, uhhh.... Stiney.
Never thought I'd say that
Note the "FTL" tacked onto the end of that.
Being the geek that I am, I immediately associated FTL with:
http://en.battlestarwiki.org/wiki/Propulsion_in_the_Re-imagined_Series#F...
Not going to lie, FTL-travel was the first thing I thought of (not BSG-specific though) but then I quickly realized what it was actually meant to stand for.
Yeah i think there had to be multiple incidents that we do not know about because I know several people at school who have been arrested for an array of things and not sent to the student judicial board
David Teel over at the Daily Press wrote in his article that it seemed like Journell didn't have to go through the whole judicial board process with his marijuana escapade (http://www.dailypress.com/sports/teel-blog/dp-teel-time-holmes-dismissed...).
"Given that Journell's crime involved a premeditated plan to retrieve stolen marijuana, his offense seemed worse than Holmes spontaneous fight. But there are no indications the Student Conduct System was involved in Journells case the system grants accused students or organizations a hearing before an assigned faculty administrator or a committee of students."
So I'd agree that there has to be something more than meets the eye on this particular case...
Could it have something to do with the fact Journell's incident happened off-campus? From what I understand, the fight involving Holmes happened in a parking lot aroud Tots. Most of those lots are technically on campus and may have given the Student Board jurisdiction; whether that's appropriate or not is up for debate.
That shouldn't matter. I had friends that got arrested at off campus parties and still had to go in front of the Judicial Board.
Trey Edmunds, time to pound the rock.
Welcome to the Antic Conference
I feel bad for mike, but like it was said earlier this kid was not a D1 back.He was awesome in high school because a had a tight end and a tackle that were D 1 talent for 2 years in school.This kid does not have break away speed or anything that made you say WOW.I feel bad for him but iam glad for our talented running backs that do have that WOW FACTOR.
This is another case where listening to the insiders was a mistake - they said he was the reincarnation of Lee Suggs.
I'm pretty sure Lee Suggs is still alive...
Sup?
cray though incoming..
promote Shane Beamer to recruiting coordinator, and get Suggs a job coaching our running backs.
Shane was the recruiting coordinator from the time he joined the staff until the new staff joined and Stiney moved into the recruiting job. I would like to see them start to transition some of the special teams his way though.
Wasn't Kevin Jones back at VT finishing up his degree. I thought was going to join the staff as a grad assistant.
Anybody know what happened to this?
He was back getting a whole new degree from what I understood. He was getting a degree in Industrial Design. Not sure about the whole grad assistant thing though.
Correct. I have a buddy that gets lunch with him at least once a week. KJ still helps out with the football team in his spare time, but he doesn't really have any intentions of coming back to be a coach full time. The guy has a wife and kids which seems to be his first priority at this point.
good for him
Ah, thanks for the update. The last I heard was back in Feb of 2011 and at the time, the thought was he was getting his degree with the intention of joining the football staff after graduating.
Of course, a lot of things change in 2 1/2 years.
I know KJ has a summer camp every year now at the rec fields behind parking services.
Yeah saw flyers all over the place the last time I was down there.
Give that man a job Beamer.