I didn't see a thread about this yet and it looked like people started discussing the movie in other threads. There needs to be one people can avoid in case they haven't seen it yet. Overall I really enjoyed the movie, but I wouldn't say it was the greatest movie I've ever seen. I'd probably give it a 7.5 out of 10. It was, without a doubt, Star Wars, but I felt like I had seen this movie before. I think JJ played it safe and stayed TOO close to what a star wars movie is, and some scenes were far too predictable (hello han solo confronting Ben). However, I left the theater with loads of questions and I already can't wait for VIII. What did you guys think of the movie? Do you agree with my assessment or think I'm full of it? Discuss away!
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One question: was it without a doubt superior to all three prequels combined? It sounds like yes to me. I won't be able to see it until Mon night. Oh, and also
Not literally.
It is without question better than the prequels.
On your second point, that's actually the purpose of this thread, for people who have seen the movie to discuss it without giving anything away to others up here who haven't seen it yet
Just so long as we have an understanding.
I know I'm in the minority, but I really liked Episode III, and II wasn't terrible
Definitely better than the prequels. By a long shot.
I thought the movie was great. Not Batman Begins great, more Dark Kight Rises great.
That's an interesting analogy. I thought all 3 of the Dark Knight movies were good movies. Dark Knight was, in my mind, the best of the 3. It's hard for me to decide which of the other two ranks second. You're literally comparing the first and third in the series which to me are just about dead even for second best from that trilogy.
Batman Begins and The Dark Knight Rises were great movies, but The Dark Knight was one of the greatest movies every made. It was a masterpiece in every way.
While I agree it wasn't the best movie I've ever seen, I disagree with your assessment and came away from the theatre throroughly entertained and excited to watch it again in the near future. I think the movie was really well done. It had classic JJ humor but it was tastefully done and evenly spaced as not to detract from the story. It paid homage to the originals while getting you up to speed from Return of the Jedi and I think it set everything up really well for the final coming movies in the trilogy. While it was predictable, anyone who has seen sci-fi movies, especially star wars should know what to expect in these movies. It really felt like a reboot of A New Hope but with JJ's own fresh spin. One thing I really like about his movies is they keep moving. There's not really any downtime or lulls in the movie, the action just keeps moving forward (Star Treks come to mind). The real question you have to ask yourself is, what would you change that you think would make it better? I don't really think I could pick anything besides the mysterious return of Boba Fett.
The only real question I had coming away from the movie was who actually is the supreme leader? And who are Rey's parents? These are questions they intentionally left unanswered I'm guessing.
I don't have a great answer to your question, but basically I felt like starting the movie in a sand pit is tired, there was another trench run, how many times have we seen some kind of fighter fly into a building to destroy it from the inside, the entire scene with han was completely predictable. Idk how I would change those, but my point is since I've seen all of that several times, I only really liked the movie and didn't love the movie. I have many questions too and I can't wait for VIII. I'm basically splitting hairs, I know, but I have very high expectations for star wars haha
I don't mind the sand pit gig, its familiar to Star Wars lovers without being the exact same planet. The trench run was somewhat yawn-able but it wasn't the sole focus of the attack like in New Hope. And too be honest, how else do you destroy such a large weapon with such a tiny resistance force? Although I would have expected there to be more resistance fighters given how we last left the empire. I think the battle scene and consequent explosion of the planet was somewhat rushed and glossed over on purpose as the main story of the film was the revitalization of the force and the search for Luke, which is why the movie ended the way that it did. And questions and cliff hangers are good for a part 1 movie. It keeps the audience asking for more and wondering what will come in the next installment.
Overall I agree with this, but digging deeper, and like what was stated below, we have yet another planet destroying super machine. Avoid that and we don't even have this discussion.
I will say though that if VIII was perfectly set up and executed because of VII, I will retract all of my arguments
Have you ever read any of the Star Wars novels set after the original trilogy? Obviously those arn't canon, but there is literally a new planet destroying superweapon in like every other story. I think JJ kinda went in that direction because it certainly is something Star Wars fans can relate to. I do agree if we see another floating ball of death in the next 2 in some fashion it will be very played out.
I want to read Aftermath, especially after seeing VII. But damn, that would get real old real quick, although I will admit that setting different variations of the death star seems interesting, just out of the pure novelty of it
I loved the X-Wing vs TIE fighter dogfight scenes around the planet. The actual planet, not the artificial one.
Abrams could have skipped the planet-killer completely. It really served no purpose, plot-wise. You could just as easily had Kylo Ren on a Star Destroyer; he just needs a platform to pursue and harass the heroes, and to take Rey to set up the escape / rescue.
Skipping the Star Killer (despite the reference to Luke's original name) could have avoided some plot holes: How does a remnant of the Empire have the resources to build something that size? How does an infantry company commander have access to shut down the only shield system for something that size? Why can't they muster a fleet larger than a dozen TIE fighers?
I was asking myself, "Another Death Star? A trench run again?"
It may not have had a major effect on the plot of this movie, but they did use it to destroy the ENTIRE New Republic, which is kind of a big deal as far as overarching story goes.
The entirety of the New Republic was four or five planets in the same system? No wonder "the Resistance" kept itself separate.
And it's not like the New Republic seemed to play much part before then. Their first five seconds of screen time was to be obliterated. Just write them out completely, and have the Rebellion still dragging on.
I guess you missed the bit about OVERARCHING story. This is not a standalone film, but one rather one more cog in a large machine. The destruction of the New Republic will have far reaching consequences for the Star Wars universe beyond 5 minutes of screen time in the first movie of at least three.
Perhaps. But right now we have one movie to go on. And lacking any in-film explanation, it feels to me like the New Republic existed soley so the Bag Guys (tm) could blow them up with their DeathStar++ just because Star Wars should have a Death Star.
If we're throwing out all of the Timothy Zahn / etc stuff as non-canon, then the New Republic hasn't been established as being much of anything. The Resistance is pretty much everything the Rebellion was - a plucky but overmatched band fighting against, and on the run from, the Empire, with a reasonably complete military force and intelligence service, and Leia as a primary character deeply involved. The New Republic, on the other hand, rated about three lines of dialogue - and that wasn't even about their military or politics, just establishing their existance and mentioning some quiet below-table support to the Resistance. And four-five planets are gone... so that's it?
Now, if the New Republic is larger than that, and the First Order only got around to killing one system out of many (despite a plan to crush it entirely), then that's a wholly different ball of wax. Then they might be a real player that just had its Pearl Harbor moment. But I left the theater with the impression that the Abrams and the script writers decided to shoehorn a Death Star into the film "because Star Wars."
I took it as the Resistance fighting a proxy war and not officially endorsed by the NR, as evidence suggests this version of the NR has been much less successful and is sort of only in balance with the FO and other factions.
Thus while anything from political indecision to slow rearmament might make open war undesirable for them at present, funding the militant wing of the NR as the Resistance was an attractive option.
It's only been 30 years since the fall of the GALACTIC Empire. A galaxy is a big place, I'd be surprised if every system had even learned of the Emperor's death, let alone form a New Republic.
From what I think is implied is that only the capitol was destroyed along with the rest of tis system.
No obviously that will put that command and control into huge confusion and probably destroyed a good deal of their fleet.
Leaving the sponsored proxy fighters in the Resistance the only ones who could act before Starkiller was used again as they knew what it was, and its location. While the NR Fleet pulled itself together.
When I said "destroyed the New Republic," I meant they destroyed the government center. I think your assessment of it simply being a faction vying for its place is accurate, and that would imply that destroying the system in which it was headed would essentially end that faction, since it would be entirely headless. And armless if we're to assume it's fleet was concentrated in that system as was implied.
They certainly arent in a GOOD position, but not so bad as I think yoo think.
Particularly when counterbalanced with the loss of Starkiller Base. That right there was a huge investment for the FO. If the Death Star strained the Empire, then the much larger weapon built by the small FO we can assume was a huge undertaking. It is not unreasonable to assume too that one of the reasons the only Star Destroyer we see is Hux's command ship is that the FO's fleet numbers have been sacrificed to build the weapon.
So even if the NR is hurt badly by the Coup de Main that took place, the FO is hurt bad too.
Plus with Leia and Ackbar alive that is at least one group of experienced leadership that can come back to fill the void now that a shooting war has presumably begun.
Saw the movie today and it specifically mentioned crushing the government of the New Republic. I guess by destroying the government center and the system that it's in, they are in destroying the "Republic".
Guess it all depends on if they mean the Republic as the government or all planets involved in that government. I believe I remember that the government was specifically mentioned.
Personally though I believe they wanted the entire republic destroyed to keep up the idea that these warriors aren't tied down. The whole premise of the original movies was that Luke Han and Chewy were pretty much rogue fighters going up against the empire. There is no clear entity behind them except "the rebellion" a relatively unorganized group. I believe the new writers wanted to continue the whole rogue fighter idea of the original films.
I wish they would have just shown Solo Jr escaping the planet before it blew up. Everyone knows he escaped but we were left to wonder how and with whom.
I also really, really didn't like how Pilot Guy suddenly reappeared later in the movie. I thought the 'Oh, yeah, I'm fine, I was thrown from the wreckage, all good' kinda sucked.
agreed, I thought he was dead
The moment we didn't see his body, I knew we would run into him again later.
Ambiguous death scenes is not really something the Star Wars movies are known for. Especially for named characters.
His character was originally supposed to die on Jakku, hence not having a larger backstory to his escape. JJ decided to bring him back later because they had built him up to be this awesome guy only to kill him off so early in the movie.
They had also tried to get Lawson the guy who played Wedge to come back but he wasn't interested, so I feel like there was a conscious effort to build up Po to replace him, and then yeah just killing him off doesn't make a lot of sense.
I think we have half of the 'Who are Rey's parents': Luke is her dad.
But who is her mom? She's gonna have to be a new character, and I bet she's probably got under-the-radar force abilities, too.
I'm not so sure. Because it's *so* transparent, it almost feels like a rope-a-dope.
Biggest question I had! Rey had no idea or training with the force but all of a sudden she can move sabers with her mind, mind trick enemies, and beat a semi trained Jedi's ass. I know Luke was a great Jedi but damn he couldn't do that crap right away. Her mom has to have some help in Rey's strong abilities.
Well in all fairness Rylo has been shot when he fought her.
But your point is well taken.
I've heard a rumor that the Supreme Leader could be Darth Plagueis. He was Palpatine's master and figured out how to bring people back from the dead. Palpatine used that to lure Anakin to the Dark Side. He was murdered by an apprentice (can't remember if it was Palpatine), but if he was strong enough in the Force, he could have brought himself back from the dead.
This is plausible considering Sidious NEVER figured out how to duplicate that after he murdered Plagueis.
This just popped in my head, but could it be that in Episode IX Kylo moves from the Dark Side to the Light and brings Han back?
Little too kumbaya for my taste. I also doubt it on principle. The light side and the Jedi believe in the natural order of things. Resurrecting the dead is unnatural and an imbalance to the way of the world. If they could harness that power, and believed it to be right, they would have been bringing back their most powerful members all along.
Yeah that's a good point. Bringing people back from the dead is definitely a Sith and Dark Side thing. If Kylo were to go to the light side, he would have to give up those practices.
I can answer this: NO. One simple reason, Harrison Ford would likely never allow it. He didn't want to do this movie to begin with.
He didn't want to do any Star Wars movies since the first one, and even that one might have been pushing it.
That's why he got frozen in Empire.
The music may provide a clue.
Interesting... I might have to go see the movie again today
THAT explains why Ren has been receiving limited training!!! Now that Snoke/Plagueis knows he's running out of time (with the destruction of the sun crusher/world destroyer) he needs to speed up the process for Ren (having subsequently helped speed it up himself by murdering his own father). I'm curious how he managed to use the dark force reanimate.
That's a very interesting point, considering it would be the identical kind of foreshadowing they used in the Prequels to show Palpatine would become the Emperor and how the victory at Naboo signaled the coming of the Empire...
But in order to bring himself back from the dead, he would have to know about Horcruxes, right? Which means Prof. Slughorn has to appear at some point.
The cover art for the book about Darth Plagues contains a very interesting picture.......
Kinda looks a little like Snoke to me.
I have a really hard time keeping it straight now. Would this still be considered canon, or did it get shuffled into the Legends universe?
Well in the Lucas era before Disney most James Luceno novels were canon.
Plageuis is no longer canon, but Tarkin is, and it incorporates some elements of Plageuis apparently.
Man that is a bummer as I have still yet to finish it. In that case I really hope this book is still canon because this is the best Star Wars novel ever written IMO....
I too enjoyed Dark Lord: The Rise of Darth Vader, but I beg to differ on it being the best SW novel. I read it once but didn't really have a desire to read it again. I have read all of the following books multiple times.
The X-Wing series losing it's c-canon status nearly made me want to boycott the new trilogy, they along with the X-Wing/TIE Fighter video games were a big part of the reason that I became a Star Wars fan in the first place.
In the novel, Plaguies is a Muun, a species with an elongated skull, which is less evident in the picture on the novel's cover. Snoke doesn't have the elongated skull of a Muun in The Force Awakens, so any similarity in appearance between the two is probably coincidental. They could obviously still connect the two, since the novel isn't canon anymore.
Sorry for bringing up such an old thread, but...
Try this:
http://imgur.com/a/hU3GZ
Regardless of whether or not this is true (seriously I can't decide if he's for real or just pulling our legs) I love Mark Hamill. He's one of the few people I can think of who genuinely enjoy their fame as much as and with the fans
SNAPE KILLS DUMBLEDORE!!!
First of all, I'm seeing it 4 or 5 more times. It was everything I hoped it would be and more.
That said, I can see how people would take issue with some of the plot. I found a couple of moments where I'd be saying, "of course," or "really?" regarding the decisions to include some familiar or derived scenes (for instance, the bar that's essentially a carbon copy of the Mos Eisley cantina). But there's a fine line between resorting to cliche and paying tribute to what came before, and I think for the most part Abrams toed the tribute line. The dialogue in particular was a huge step up from the Lucas era.
2 nitpicks: The Empire/First Order/whatever imperial remnant there is has now made the same mistake 3 times. "Oh, let's build another planet-destroying laser, but let's make it big enough to destroy 5 or 6 planets at once!!!" I bet that was brainstormed at a time when the screenwriters were tired and delirious and couldn't come up with a better idea. The other one....Supreme Leader Snoke, 1/3 of the way into the trilogy and with little to no character development, seems like a lame-as-hell supervillain. They better work on him.
Palpatine wasn't a developed character as the sith lord until episode 3. You are being overly critical.
2nd this. I believe everything they did was deliberate for reasons that will be explains in the coming episodes.
I believe I did refer to that as a 'nitpick'
Where do they get the resources, and the manpower?
edit: Nevermind, I'm not awake yet
So I mentioned this previously - I saw the movie last night, and without having ever seen anything star wars I thought it was enjoyable. I don't see myself getting caught up in the hype of waiting for the next movies or anything, but overall it was ok.
And yes, it was quite predictable - especially that scene you were talking about.
My wife, who is a huge Star Wars fan, absolutely loved the movie.
Thank you for posting. My daughter asked if the movie would appeal to someone who had never seen any of the Star Wars movies. I have so far been unable to answer, because I just saw it last night, and I still can't believe there is someone in the English speaking world who has never seen any of the Star Wars movies.
So your view is helpful.
How have you never see anything star wars before?! Did you intentionally try to avoid it when growing up?
My mom bought me the movies when I was younger, I literally watched maybe 20-30 minutes and had approximately zero interest in what I saw. So I never bothered watching the rest, or any other of the movies. Couldn't tell you which movie it was to save my life.
It was the dopest dope you can smoke.
Best movie Id seen in a loonggggg time. I already want to see it again.
In my opinion, I think it lived up to most of the hype and expectations put upon it. I thought it was a great film, and I'm sure I'll see it more than once.
Was it predictable at times? Yes, certainly it was. And there were one or two things I think I called, which other people tended to go in the other direction. Even with some of the predictability, I think it was a great movie. Much better starting point for a new trilogy then the prequels.
That ending though. That's all I'll say about that.
I am curious to see how Ep 8 goes now, based on the writer/director's body of work. Could lead to a much darker film, which could be interesting.
My biggest gripe was Kylo Ren taking the helmet off so early in the movie. I think it would have been more dramatic if they waited until the bridge scene to do that reveal. It was also way too easy to figure out who he was early in the movie, all it took was the comment about his family.
There are a couple of other nit picky things I could say. I definitely want to learn more about Snoke and Kylo Ren's fall in the next movie. That's what's bugging me the most, but overall I was very happy with the movie.
Edit: They better explain where Maz got that lightstaber in episode 8 or 9.
I am all about your edit. A friend of mine tried to tell me it didn't matter how they got it. Bullshit. That thing got sent to the bottom of the biggest building on bespin with Luke's hand still attached. How the hell does that get recovered??
That was probably what I disliked the most. I threw my hands up when they went with the cop-out.
I do think that The Force guided the lightsaber to Rey and back to Luke in the same way that the Ring in Lord of the Rings has some measure of autonomy. I just want them to explain it.
Yeah, Snoke saying "Han Solo, your father," in the first third of the film was kind of a strong clue.
I meant Lor San Tekka mentioning his family history in the first scene.
Edit: Rewatched it today and I had completely forgotten who delivered the family history line.
Yeah. There made it pretty darn clear, pretty darn early.
I guess he's planned for a heck of a redemption arc.
I think what bugs me the most, is that apparently everyone in a starship / gun-using galaxy knows how to fight with a sword. No accidental injuries, no Obi-wan drills, every damn person picks it up and throws down. What ever happened to that lifetime of training being required?
I thought the exact same thing when Finn picked up the lightsaber for the first time and started kicking ass with it. He even admitted earlier in the movie that he was really only trained in using blasters..
IF you can call it training...stormtroopers are so incompetent and awful with a blaster that I don't think they could hit the broadside of a barn with a 12 gauge and bird shot at 15 yards. Granted he seems more competent than your average stormtrooper, but their aim is God-Awful to say the least...
I actually enjoyed the fact that the stormtroopers actually had decent aim in this movie. It seemed as if they hit more targets in TFA than in all other Star Wars movies combined.
They were definitely better than past movies, I completely agree with you. But they had no where to go but up. They were still pretty darn awful in this movie, leaving me and my friends laughing at their pathetic incompetency. I mean come on, they missed so many easy shots with people's back towards them it isn't even funny....buuuut I will admit it would kinda ruin everything if Rey or Finn got shot...people would riot if they were shot and the scene cut and that was that lol
I didn't think that Fin was very adept with a lightsaber. The trooper that fought him with a riot control baton was able to best him necessitating that Han save him and an injured Kylo Ren was able to easily best him in combat as expected, possibly even toying with him a bit as Vader did with Luke in ESB.
As far as Rey goes, I'm wondering if she may have been trained some before and then had her memory erased/replaced and been given a different name. If Luke is her father as we expect then she would have likely received some training before being left on Jakku and depending on how long she had been on Jakku, it's plausible that she wouldn't be recognizable to family members that would have known her previously. This would explain some of why she was able to defeat Kylo Ren and have some success using the force. It also isn't unprecedented for someone strong in the force to overpower a more experienced force user, a very young Galen Marek was able to pull Vader's lightsaber from his hand in an attempt to save his father's life at the beginning of The Force Unleashed.
I think it was a very entertaining stand-alone film, but I think we'll also look back on it after Episodes VII and IX as an extremely important link between the "old generation" (Luke, Leia, Han, etc.) and the"new generation (Rey, Finn, Poe, etc.)
IT was a good movie, very star wars and definitely much better than the prequels. But the plot felt very thin, and felt like a rehash of previous films
This is exactly what I thought. I also noticed we share a first name, and until I clicked, I thought we graduated from VT the same year ('87). Which would make us, like, twinzies.
Then I saw 1987 is the year you were born, so, not so much.
Anyway: the story was definitely weak. I like the new characters they are developing, though there's a long way to go. And I loved the way they portrayed the characters from the original trilogy. The sets, effects, costumes, and all that stuff was spot-on, which was a great relief. Most of the acting was good. There were no major stupid ideas (no teddy bears, no Jar Jar, no blue stuffed elephant like the one in Return of the Jedi). But for this trilogy to work there has to be a story worth telling, and I don't really know that there is.
I felt that this was the most accurate and best review of Force Awakens:
http://www.theonion.com/video/onion-reviews-star-wars-force-awakens-52067
Just spot on.
I still can't believe Darth Vader is Luke's father
YES, THERE ARE SPOILERS HERE TOO
Overall, I was pretty darn happy I went to see it last night. There were a couple things that bothered me - they seemed a little too preocupied with "revealing" old characters instead of just letting them subtly work their way into the plot, for example - but for the most part I really enjoyed it.
I for one love that there's another Death Star, but they just made it huge and more terrifying and harder to blow up - although I thought the force they sent to accomplish that was pretty puny all things considered. Also, as much as part of me was annoyed that this planet just sucks up a star with no real repercussions, I love that about Star Wars - astrophysics be damned, it looks cool!
Is it just me, or is Kylo Ren just kind of a wuss with zero emotional control? It made for some easy comedic relief at times, but dude, you just got owned by 2 people with zero lightsaber or force training. Even with an injury, you should be strong/skilled enough to take out a couple n00bs (not to mention a teenage girl who isnt' exactly physically imposing and tends to forget that the Force is a thing) with relative ease. Sucks to suck, bro. I would have liked to see him be a bit more of the badass Sith apprentice type that we've seen before. Maybe a couple scenes where he just really messes things up for the Resistance or something - just give me a reason to be nervous when Rey and Fin go to fight him, other than his cool lightsaber (with did finally fix one of the major design flaws of the originals with, y'know, a guard) and his ability to force-choke like a mofo.
All that aside, I liked how the story progressed as well as the bits they left open for some creative question-answering in the next films. Here's hoping VIII is even better!
SPOILERS AS WELL, THOUGH I'LL TRY TO BE VAGUE
I actually thought the characterization of Kylo was kind of refreshing. It showed that he's a flawed villain, who is still trying to find his place/split between his two sides. And I think it's nicely shown in what I consider to be part of the climax of the film, is that he's trying to figure out who he really can be. (And I think that was some of the best cinematography in the film at that moment) Some of the actions he's taken in the movie might push him now towards one end of the light/dark spectrum, and I'm curious to see how his actions affect his personality/state in the coming films.
The twin concepts of a "dark lord" who feels seduced by the light, and a storm trooper with a heart of gold, create space for some interesting story telling.
I think the lack of emotional control is part of what sets him up as a villain whose motivation is something other than "be evil" like Darth Sidious. He's a kid who thinks he's stronger than he is because of his bloodline, and doesn't want to accept that he's just being used. And the bowcaster bolt in his side probably didn't do him any favors fighting against Finn and Rey.
Piggyback off the bowcaster bolt.. Rey was by all accounts an accomplished bow fighter and one can only assume growing up as a scavenger taught her how to dance around an opponent. Meanwhile, Rey has been taught by a shadowy old alien. Finn on the other hand is the new Jar Jar Binks without the language barrier.
I can appreciate that, but none of his actions before that showed me that fight would have gone much differently if he hadn't been hurt. I wanted to see him go full-asskickery while 100% and then see the bolt even things up a bit when he was fighting Rey and Finn. They just never really let him go off on anything that wasn't a control panel until the final fight scene.
I read a teardown that someone posted on imgur about Chewy's gun in relation to the fighting between Rey/Finn and Kylo Ren, and it went something like this:
Chewy's gun is the most dominant weapon of ever. Earlier in the movie, Ford uses it to beat like ten bad guys at once, and at some point Chewy blasts a stormtrooper and it sends him flying off the screen. Kylo Ren got hit with it, and instead of getting destroyed, just had to take a knee for a minute. We shouldn't be surprised that he didn't fight particularly well after getting blasted with it.
Which is why if Kylo Ren was more advanced in status (Jedi Master or Sith Lord status) the force would have sustained him better and held him up in the fight. In general, it was a puny weak-ass saber fight all-around.
I definitely enjoyed a little more depth than the simple "hey, I'm evil" Sith lord - and his interaction with/killing of Han was a great part of the movie. Still, I just didn't really ever find myself scared/intimidated by him at all. It's almost like the Dark Side is on a budget now and couldn't splurge for a decent fighter. He isn't a bad character, but to me he was a bit boring, a bit "meh". He didn't really excite me much.
MORE SPOILERS
I was left a little confused. He had incredible force control. He stopped a shot from a blaster in mid-air. He can extract information from people and he knocked Rey out with a force push. And then he's just completely lacking with a lightsaber. On top of that Rey beat him to getting Anakin's saber when they were both using the force.
Don't get me wrong, I loved the movie. We got to feel the same energy and excitement from the original trilogy. The new characters were and will be amazing.
Yeah he's the littlest bitch of a bad guy we've seen so far in this whole series, I think.
A thought on Kylo, I think JJ showing his lack of emotional control is setting him up to be the most powerful enemy yet. The ability to give in to your anger/fear/hate and not controlling it is what gives the dark side it's power. I think he was always one foot in/out while the possibility of his family getting back together was around which is why even with some training Rey was able to fend him off.
That's definitely possible, but I still want to see him go HAM on something other than a keyboard.
I'm going to give Kylo Ren the benefit of the doubt on the lightsaber fights. After all, he'd just taken a bowcaster shot to the gut. And he's pretty raw with the Force, aside from ability to stop blaster bolts in mid-flight.
Yeah I think light saber fights should be this pedestrian for first part of the trilogy. Think about the fact that he has literally no saber wielding foe to go against. And it looks like snoke might be the saber-less type too, meaning no practice. It would make sense that his force power greatly out shine his ability with the saber.
I just learned that the actor playing Kylo Ren, Adam Driver, is a former Marine. He clearly needs to work on his War Face; his intimidation factor just isn't there yet. Fortunately, R. Lee Ermey is still ready and willing to motivate his fellow actors/Marines!
Just imo here, in his mask, Kylo was very menacing and out of it, he wasn't although he was clearly trying to be. I think that was kind of the point. Through most of the movie, right up until the conclusion, he was very torn and vulnerable and I think removing his mask was an extension of showing that.
Agreed. I think there was a good deal more character development given to Ren then any of the Dark side users we have seen in the movies other than Vader.
In his mask and with the voice filter, he was plenty menacing. But he was clearly immature with a temper and not enough proper training one way or the other. He was "tempted" by the Light, self admitted. He had doubts about his choices right up until the end, and killing his father.
I had nonissue with his character, as I think it sets up a good arc moving forward. Would be kind of neat to watch a kinda bad guy become a REALLY bad guy over the next films, as opposed to what we have seen I the films so far. (I would argue that it was hard to portray in the prequels because we already knew the end of Anakins story)
Kylo Ren was a giant pussy and terrible villain. Really he was the main thing wrong with the movie. The first scene makes him a total badass, where he stopped the lazer while torturing the people. However later on he just turns out to be a whiny rebellious teen with daddy issues. The obvious end to the series would involve him turning good and helping to kill Snoke, but I'm not sure if I wouldn't rather see him become more evil and actually a worthy villain. Episode 8 promises to have huge plot twists, so we shall find out.
Kylo had me like...
I can't believe Han is gone though. Still sitting in theator through the credits. Only about 50-75 people here this morning.
Yeah, that was a real shot to the crotch.
Yeah it hit me in the way to work this morning as well. I can't believe he's gone. I even called him dying months ago, but it still doesn't lessen the hit to the emotional attachment of han solo
I saw it this morning and yeah, this was the only thing that killed me about it. I was massively disappointed with the Luke reveal as well. Naturally, he'll be a huge part of the next episodes, but all he did was stare at her like a doofus. I was waiting for him to see his lightsaber, then snatch it from her hand with the force. I think everyone was.
Was there a reason given for R2 suddenly waking up?
The pilot reminded me of independence day. After he destroyed all the stuff and flew out of the thing I was expecting him to say "UP YOURSSSS!" In fact, the whole mission to destroy the thing seemed like independence day. I was also expecting to hear the pilot guy say, "I've got to get me one of these!" when he took off in the tie fighter.
After Han was killed, no one talked about it. Wookie inherited a new pilot, though. Most of the reveals of old characters got applause from the audience, maybe the loudest in my theater was when they first showed the Millennium Falcon, oddly enough
The R2 thing is confusing. It was not explained but I'm guessing at this point Luke has some force control over him as it was stated that he went into low power mode when Luke left. Maybe Luke sensed it was time to reveal his location so he put the word out to R2 to provide the map?
Best part of my night showing last night was...during the opening just before the main title theme when the spooky green "Lucas Arts" flashed up, someone yelled out "anybody have the biggest boner right now?". Guy next to me (stranger) yelled back "I DO".
Yeah I'd have to go back and check, but it may be that the timing of R2's awakening coincided with jedi chick finding her force and resisting Solo Jr. Maybe Luke felt her force awaken and then forced R2 to wake up, or maybe she was the trigger for R2 to wake up
Sorry, I didn't learn anyone's names.
Also, I'm half expecting black guy to be a jedi, too. At one point he said something about being dragged back to the desert planet and being 'drawn' to jedi chick.
I thought the R2 thing was pretty much explained explicitly by C-3PO. He said that he went into low power mode until Luke came back, hence the next line about "we may never see that R2 ever again" or something to that effect.
Luke is "back" in the sense that he finally ready to reveal himself.
The T2 awakening was because it was time for Luke to reveal himself and R2 had the remaining portion of the map to lead his daughter to him. That is also the reason why she was able to draw from the force much greater than Ren.
Wondering if this is moving into parity to the Sith "rule of two" - when there is only a master and a student. Luke failed with teaching many and is now looking for one. And it's her.
This was something that really bothered me. Especially Chewi's reaction. Yes he had the obligatory, instant quick couple kills with the crossbow, but afterwards he just carried on like normal. Im pretty sure if someone just lost their best friend close enough to be a brother, you're not just gonna take Rey by your side and carry on like normal
I knew one of them was gone, but I honestly thought it was going to be Chewy.
Ditto. I was influenced by trying to find easter eggs in the trailers.
Apparently the only way Harrison Ford would be in this movie is if they killed off Han. It was the one stipulation he needed for joining the cast, so I was fully expecting that scene.
By the way, remember that scene where Rey was all locked up and she did the mind trick on the Stormtrooper? Anyone else recognize the voice of the stormtrooper? Surprised MI6 allowed him out of their sights like that....
Good article on all the cameos.
http://www.thedailybeast.com/articles/2015/12/19/how-to-spot-all-the-sta...
Bill Hader from SNL was the "voice" of BB-8. I got a real kick out of that because I had previously joked to my girlfriend that the Craig cameo would be something silly like voicing R2.
Really? Was Ford tired of being Han?
Also, the link in the other response to your post claims that stormtrooper is Daniel Craig.
Ford was tired of being Han in the original trilogy.
That was the primary reason the plot had the character put in carbonite in Empire. Lucas was not sure if Ford would agree to come back for a 3rd movie, so he went that route. Worst case scenario he basically stays frozen.
Yup...
Speaking of other characters, was surprised to not see Lando in the movie, considering Billy Dee Williams has been out promoting the movie, I guess they are saving him for later. Also, did they kill of Nien Nunb? He was there when they went in, for that final battle but wasn't in the return, so I'm assuming yes.
Also, the new jedi chick looks a lot like natalie portman, so i'm thinking natalie was just slutting it up all around the galaxy and this new jedi chick is also a vader grandchild, maybe luke's daughter?
JJ was definitely trying to get us guessing between being Han and Leia's daughter and being Luke's daughter, but I'm betting on her being Luke's daughter
Kinda my thoughts as well. I think if she were a Solo, we would have had way more interaction/evidence in this film, rather than pushing it off for the next ones. Also, I think a lot of evidence during the film, based on reactions to different objects/events points it more towards Luke.
Yeah Han and Leia acknowledge their son but never mention a daughter, I assume they would have if they knew her to be theirs.
I left the theatre thinking she was Luke's daughter 100%.
I would not be surprised if we see a full scene in the next episode of her being left on the desert planet, and it being revealed that Luke left her there to hide her from the First Order before he went into hiding.
Too many clues. The fact that the lightsaber called out to her through the Force, and then the line Kylo Ren said to her about the "ocean and the island..." when he is interrogating her, and that being the exact image when she finds Luke. Luke wasn't just waiting for someone to be strong in the Force and then reveal himself so he could train them, it really pointed to him waiting for her specifically.
Complete speculation on this, but above someone said Luke just stares at Rey like a doofus (and indeed he does), perhaps this is because he has a strong feeling that she is his daughter? I'm highly suspicious that she IS Luke's daughter, and was left in the desert for the reason listed above. SO MANY QUESTIONS!!!!
I said that, but have rethought it. Here's what I think has happened:
Luke had two children. When he felt the force awaken, he would summon R2D2 to give up the map so they could find him. When Rey arrives, Luke is stunned, because he thought he felt his son awaken the force, not his daughter.
Betting his son becomes a bad guy and is defeated by his daughter. Not that we have confirmation that Rey is his daughter, and we have no hint that he even had a(nother) kid, I'm just making sh!t up.
When Leia hugs Rey, pretty sure the music was the same as when Leia kissed Luke in the last trilogy. That's what really solidified the idea she's Luke's kid.
Yeah, I could totally see that. Kinda begs the question of how the heck she got there though. What is it with Skywalkers and just leaving their kids on desert planets?
Good enough for dad and grandpa, good enough for kid?
Or perhaps Luke asked someone to hide her, so that he didn't know where she ended up. That's what they did to hide Luke and Leia in the first place, so Anakin/Darth couldn't just Force it out of them
Luke was himself hidden, was he not?
I suppose Luke knows - better than anyone - that the power inherent to his offspring would be sufficiently influential that it would be better for the universe if that power were never discovered. On the off chance that that power were drawn to the dark side, better would it be that the power off this offspring were never discovered than if the power of the force would tilt their will to the ends of the dark side. Do not tempt fate. This is a smart decision by Luke - hide all of your offspring someplace safe. [Mama Fuller]
I think Luke also realizes that an ability to use the force is a somewhat random phenomena, but strongly predictable through genetics. The kid of a Jedi will be able to use the force. Anyone else would have to gain it through an infinitely small probability of genetic variation (mutation that enables force-wielding) [Fuente].
Leia's kid knows how to use the force, but he appears to be an amateur (but Abrams appear to achieve the whole son-killing-his-father motif in new episode 1, so maybe we won't have to deal with this concept for two move movies). [Shane Beamer]
I think black guy is a jedi due to random jedi mutation, and appears to be under-the-radar-powerful. [Torrian]
I think Jedi chick is Luke's daughter. If I'm right, we have Luke, Leia, jedi chick, and black guy as actual Jedi in various stages of abilities. Luke is the new Yoda, the teacher. Leia is the new Obi-Wan, the sage protector. Leia/Solo kid is the new Vader, but jedi chick has already revealed that New Vader is envious of Real Vader, and has an inferiority complex with Real Vader [Motley]. Jedi chick is the new Skywalker (and probably shares the same last name).
Chewy is what he is, good at his role but not the main guy [Bud Foster]. Solo is dead [Jim Weaver {Sorry!}]. That sucks. His kid is only half-Jedi. Kid will fuck up eventually and fucking JarJar will take his place as
Sith-in-waiting [Mendenhall]. Kid's inferiority complex will be his downfall (also, he isn't good enough with the force). [London] Or supreme leader is JarJar after a bad fall and a severe burn, whatever. [Groh]
Jedi chick is key. She's Claire Danes surviving to take on a massive role in the resistance. She's the franchise at this point [Logan Thomas]. Leia is always available for support [Coale]
I think the plotlines have been well-established [Frank].
Bet on an Episode 10. Disney won't let this franchise die
A truly well thought out Hokie analogy, though there are a few points worth clarifying:
Luke went into seclusion after Ben Solo went to the dark side. Before that, some of the dialogue made it sound like he was openly training young padawans. He went into hiding because of a sense of guilt/responsibility, not unlike Yoda after Anakin's fall. Given the relative ages of Rey and Ben, it's safe to say this occurred rather recently, and that if Rey is a Skywalker, leaving her on Jakku preceded Luke's troubles by at least a decade. This clouds the reasoning behind leaving her, but it would seem to eliminate a concern over the dark side.
Also, it's explicitly stated that the Force flows through all things. It's not limited by hereditary lineage, though a finer control of it may be. It should be further noted that being a Jedi is distinctly not hereditary, but rather a choice. It's often called a religion, and I'd say its most analogical to Shaolin. So I'd say that whether Finn becomes a Jedi will depend on whether he believes in it, and then subjects himself to some rigorous training to compensate for a weaker predisposition to control the Force as compared to the Skywalker family or Rey. At this point, I'm not sure this will happen, since he's basically set up to be new Han, and Han of course could never bring himself to truly embrace the Force.
Finally, yes, Kylo Ren is an amateur with the Force because he slipped so rapidly to the dark side that he never completed his training. This is only compounded by his total lack of emotional control and inferiority complex, all of which will most likely lead to him being strung along by Snoke to be just powerful enough to use as a pawn, but never powerful enough to be a real threat.
Jedism was developed from a combination of Sufi understanding of God permeating all things and the Shinto discipline of martial arts and an experiential connection to ancestors.
Shaolin Buddhism is also very close.
It makes me think that they should just scrap the first 3 movies and completely re-do them JJ Abram style. The fact that they used puppets and real props vs CGI for the vast majority of the characters was noticable in this new movie.
Look how bad JarJar looks.
vs how Good this cat looks.
Yeah and the old lady with the aviator goggles who owns the new cantina looked amazing too, actually like a little old lady.
I thought that character was fantastic for her small role.
Yeah she was awesome, hope she's back later
She is voiced by a pretty big current actress, so I imagine we will see her again at some point. There is clearly something going on with her to have Luke's lightsaber locked up. And the fact that she seemed to know who Rey was as well.
Well if Rey ends up being Luke's daughter...maybe she's the mom
Why would they want to interfere with old star wars when they are making new star wars? Doesn't make sense to remake old ones.
They wouldnt,
Its more of a statement on how sick the new movie was to how terrible the 'prequels' were. There's probably some back story that could explain some things in the new movie, but jeesshhh the prequels are just kind of hard to watch to find out...
To summarize, as I stated earlier, further more, and in conclusion The Force Awakens > Sum(Prequels).
I like the prequels. Are they great? No. Are they good? Yes.
Hayden Christensen's acting is never good. But luckily Ewan McGregor and the political aspects made up for it.
Hayden Christensen lowered the quality of those movies by himself and it makes me sad.
You might be interested to know that Lucas turned down LeoDio for the role of Anakin and hired Hayden because of his "raw potential as an actor and incredible chemistry with Natalie Portman" which is maybe the most incorrect statement I have ever heard. His complete lack of chemistry with Portman, who is an incredible actress, was hilariously bad, almost impossible to have that little chemistry with someone so talented.
False
So I don't like the prequels? Dang, I have been wrong about my own feelings about them for years.
I agree. The prequels didn't change the cinematic landscape by any means, but I think they were entertaining. If they were on TV one day when I was getting stuff done around the home, I'd put them on.
Not sure if anyone else listens to/reads Clay Travis/Outkick the Coverage, but he had some interesting comments about the prequels. Most of us who watched the saga in the order it was released (episodes 4-6, then 1-3) view Luke as the main character, and view the prequels as an explanation of how Luke/The Rebellion/The Empire came to be.
Clay says his children, who have seen the movies in 'chronological' order (1-6), consider the Anakin/Vador to be the main character of Star Wars movies (not Luke) and really view the saga to be the life story of Anikan/Vador. It's an interesting perspective that most of us don't have - may affect many of our opinions about the prequels.
This is a very good point. Despite watching 4-6 and then 1-3, I would contend that Anakin/Vader is the main character. I'm not sure how many people are familiar with the Ring Theory, but this theory holds much more water than Darth Jar Jar does in my opinion and does seem to point to Anakin being the main character. Additionally, he is in all 6 episodes. You could also look at the two trilogies as reflections of one another (part of the Ring Theory) where Anakin's descent is mirrored by Luke's rise.
You can make the argument either way as to who the main character is. 1-6 it's easy to say Vader. But what happens if 7-9 showcases Luke being the one to finally bring balance to the Force (which we keep hearing about through prophecy, but never actually seen)?
The argument to me is that father and son both are the main characters. Because you can't have a "main character" that is not in 1/3 of a series. And both are clearly the primary drivers of the series. Rise, Fall, and Rise
So you think Luke is actually the chosen one? I think he is. Originally they thought Anikin was and it could be argued that he kind of brought balance to the force by reviving the dark side, so that one side was not more powerful than the other.
I'm not certain one way or the other. Certainly one interpretation is that "balance" was achieved when Anakin helped bring the number of Jedi vs. Sith back to 2 v 2. (Sidious/Vader) v (Yoda/Kenobi). Certainly would not be the result the Jedi anticipated.
But, perhaps Vader helped bring balance to the Force by having Luke/Leia, who ultimately bring order and "good" back to the galaxy by the end of Ep 9. Maybe Vaders role was to have a child that passed the ultimate test from the Dark Side (from his own father), and then have that child bring him back.
A coworker of mine was told to watch the movies the following way. Episode 4 &5 and then Episode 1,2,&3 and then watch Episode 6. It actually makes a ton of sense to watch it that way and the only spoiler you get is that the Luke and Leah are twins which is kind of inferred at the end of Empire Strikes Back.
There was something else I didn't quite catch all of - when jedi chick found the lightsaber in the basement of the cantina, she touched it and had like a schizo flashback of things - I didn't catch all of them but I think I caught glimpse of a little girl being taken from people (maybe Leia or herself), Luke with his robot-ass hand leaning on R2 in what looked like a post-apocalyptic wasteland, maybe Solo Jr's betrayal of Luke somewhere in there...some other stuff, I couldn't keep track of it. I thought it was quite a bit of Frodo putting the ring on and seeing visions.
That was definitely Rey or "jedi chick" who was being taken from her family and left on Jakku. The visions were supposed to be evidence that she is strong with the force. We've seen these visions before though. Anakin had them a couple times and Luke had a vision about Han and Leia in Empire.
Was planning to wait till the 26th to see it in the massive IMAX at Air and Space, but after having Han's death spoiled last night, I decided I had to see it before anything else was spoiled. Damn if I wasn't ready to hop right back in line after it ended. Lots and lots of unexplained holes, but it laid a solid foundation, and it looked fantastic. I wish they'd been a little more expository towards the First Order and Snoke, since both are totally new to the franchise and seem to be pretty damn important, but there's plenty of time left for that. I think my biggest beef with the movie was having Max von Sydow, and then killing him off rather unceremoniously 5 minutes in, without even bothering to explain how he knows the Skywalker family.
I think we have the benefit of hindsight in that regard. Think back to A New Hope. We really had no idea about the Empire or Vader before he was Force choking dudes.
As you said, and I agree, the foundation laid was solid. The plot had a few issues certainly, but I will say that Rey is a character that I can find myself being interested in to see where her arc goes. I think there are a lot of possibilities as far as what to do with Finn. He was a bit of comic relief, but its believeable that he would be a badass with a blaster, as he has trained as a stormtrooper his entire life. As an aside, I thought it was really cool to give stormtroopers as a whole actual personalities which we have never seen. I assume that we have not seen the last of the chromed out lady trooper (who really was not developed in any way). So they can really do some neat things with his story too.
The pilot worked for me. Wedge was always one of my favorite original characters and I hope we see him in some fashion. And there is a major redemption arc built in for Ren, which seems a bit obvious, but after what JJ did this first go around, I think he has earned the chance to continue telling us the story he wants to.
Yeah, that's fair. The only reason I'd expect more here is that this is the 7th movie in a series where we know pretty much the whole major backstory except the 30 year gap between 6 and 7. But as I said, plenty of time for that, and having those questions certainly didn't detract from the film. If anything, it just makes me more anxious for the next one, which might be the point.
Did you see the first 6 movies? The only thing in sci-fi more predictable than a stormtrooper missing his target is a red shirt dying in Star Trek. I thought it was kinda funny that the only stormtrooper in history to be a good shot ends up being a defector.
And the whole bit about the stormtroopers being kidnapped as children and training their whole lives just didn't do it for me. They've never seemed competent enough for that. I've always assumed that those guys were conscripted and brainwashed into doing the Empire's bidding.
I think most of the "training" was about obeying orders not military tasks.
That was the difference between the old stormtroopers and new. The old stormtrooper army was just a bunch of clones. The new army is supposed to be a trained-from-birth army of military expertise. They made a quick statement about how these new guys were not clones of old. That makes a huge difference in the interpretation. Though I did say the same thing to my wife as we left, "I know the real reason Finn defected. He was too good of a shot to stay a stormtrooper!"
But the clone troopers were better shots. These storm troopers and the ones in the movies with Vader were not clones.
The clone troopers were awful shots. That's where the stormtrooper stereotype comes in. Your second statement is exactly what I'm saying above. The stormtroopers in Episode VII and Vader's personal guard are fundamentally different from the massive armies in the original trilogy (and anything post-Episode II, basically).
Wait why do you think the clone troopers were bad shots? The movies where they killed all the Jedi were clone troopers?
Well, there is that inconsistency. The stormtroopers could off the most powerful warriors in the galaxy, but then in Episodes IV - VI they had lost the ability to hit the broad side of a space cruiser.
By that point in the timeline they were not clone troopers but hired guns/brainwashed men. Too many clone troopers didn't like killing the Jedi's.
Had no idea. Either that's not apparent from the movies, or I blocked more of the prequel trilogy from memory than I thought.
Or... maybe they really are great shots and missed on purpose.
http://imgur.com/gallery/w5MHii8
Now that just makes a lot of sense, doesn't it?
Why were Stormtroopers such bad shots? I think we learned in this film pretty clearly - it's the helmets. Besides only filtering smoke, it seemed pretty clear Finn became a much better shot after the helmet came off.
So wait was Snoke the giant holographic bad guy? Is he the same guy as the Supreme Leader?
Yes. Supreme Leader Snoke. The hologram thing was well done, I totally thought he was actually just gigantic the first time they showed him on screen.
Yes he was the alien guy that we only saw as the holo.
I'm guessing the arc of this last trilogy will develop him up, and then his defeat will ultimately be the end of the Empire/First Order for good.
I dunno we keep getting unknown supreme leaders showing up out of nowhere randomly in all the trilogies. With Luke/Leia/Anakin, we get the same family line. But the bad guys are totally random and one always shows up out of nowhere. Here's hoping Snoke is defeated in the next episode, setting up Jar Jar to return as the supreme leader of the dark side. When he is defeated, everyone wins!
My guess is that Snoke is actually very small. The hologram was hiding something...
Snoke is Jar Jar!!!!
Way better than any of the prequels.
I grew up a Star Wars kid and I didn't mind the predictable/cliches. I got to see all of my favorite characters back on screen and it took me right back to my childhood.
I'll watch again and again and again.
It is easily in my top three for the series!
Not speaking about the plot, but the manner in which JJ made this movie feel just like the next original Star Wars was pretty awesome.
I was a big fan of the original Tron. There was no reason to get rid of the graphics and design concepts from that movie with the remake, and yet most of the original film was tossed in the trash when they remade it.
This felt like just like another Star Wars film, and that was my favorite "part" of it.
Side question: Why is 3PO's arm all fucked up?
We'll let you know as soon as we find out...
Good, I almost didn't recognize him with that red arm.
If he hadn't of clarified who he was right in the middle of han and leia's reunion, I would've been all sorts of confused
Marvel explains it.
Who was the stormtrooper captain in the shiny armor?? It seems like she was on screen a lot.
Captain Phasma. She's played by the same woman who does Brienne on GoT. I figured she'd have a bigger role, but she really didn't. Just the commander of Finn's unit. I didn't like that they made the new TIE pilot uniforms look so similar, cause it got a little confusing.
She is cast in the next movie.
Well, I guess we have an explanation as to who got Kylo Ren off Starkiller Base...
Some food for discussion:
Anakin's light saber (not Luke's, he built his own green one for Return) being attracted to her is interesting because that's never been a thing before. Sure building your light saber is special but up until now Jedi have used each other's light sabers pretty frequently with no drawbacks. Makes me think they are establish Luke - Rey connection.
Snoke, old powerful Sith Lord from past or out of left field villain?? (Kylo Ren is stated to not be a Sith)
Kylo Ren is a pussy.
Expect more new force powers and less epic light saber duels, is my guess.
Love Han forever, my favorite character and Harrison Ford is my favorite actor and was kind of my hero growing up (Han Solo and Indiana Jones) even though they came out before I was born. BUT I knew they would kill Han, HF is 73 and pretty openly doesn't care, keeping him around was unlikely.
A buddy of mine seems to think Snoke might be Darth Plagueis.
I've seen this rumor around too, but based on some quotes from Andy Serkis regarding development of the character, and the fact that it's explicitly stated that Plagueis is dead, it seems highly unlikely. It also appears he is not, in fact, Darth Jar Jar.
Personally, I hope its true. Having the guy who manipulated Sidious (into thinking he was dead), the ultimate manipulator, as the final big bad villain would be pretty sweet
Kylo Ren plays ball like a girl.
You could also make the assumption that Rey is kind of like a Rey of Light, no?
I know that Benicio del Toro has been cast for the next film as a bad guy so shit is seriously about to get real in the SW realm.
Watch Benecio just be the Collector again, as Disney tries to force a Star Wars/ Marvel crossover.
SOOOO DISAPPOINTING.. It was everything that the movie NEEDED to be to and nothing more. I felt that the movie had a ton of plot holes, including how Rey learned to control to force so quickly.. I also was VERY disappointed with Kylo, I felt like he was a pussy who I could take lunch money from.
NOT saying it wasn't worth seeing, I just over hyped the movie for myself.
Ok did anyone else notice in the scene where Fin fought the stormtrooper with the shock weapon that the light saber didn't cut through it? Also that right before the fight the trooper was carrying a shield????
http://www.starwars.com/databank/first-order-riot-control-stormtroopers
Apparently the Z6 is just really well reinforced. We've seen before that lightsabers don't instantly destroy strong metals (like blast doors), so quick strikes from a lightsaber are probably tolerable, especially when it's wielded by a guy who doesn't really know what he's doing.
There is an iOS/android game called Star Wars: Uprising that is considered canon, and this is starting to be addressed in the game regarding the shields and the fact that that light saber doesn't cut through those melee weapons
So why not make the entire uniform out of that uniform?
For the same reason they don't make planes completely out of the stuff they make the black boxes out of?
I don't know. Cause a guy with a light saber fighting a storm trooper straight up looks fun?
It's one question I always had about the Star Wars universe. Why do they basically have the exact same technology for thousands and thousands of years? You would think after countless wars, somebody would try and find a way to stop a lightsaber
Black boxes are not protected by special metal, just positioning within the plane and some extra layers of protection.
A theory I've been working on is that Rey will end up with a double bladed lightsaber. She doesn't seem fully comfortable using Anakin/Luke's saber, evidenced by keeping it in her bag and then just holding it out to Luke. She already knows how to use a bo staff-esque weapon, so a lightsaber like it would make a ton of sense. KOTOR 1/2 showed (are they still canon?) they aren't just for Sith.
KOTOR 1 may not be official canon, I can't remember. But there is no doubt in my mind that if it was made into a film, it would be top 2 on the story alone.
We'll never get a KOTOR trilogy with the Mandalorian Wars, Jedi Civil War, and the Jedi Purge.
That makes me sad.
I just downloaded KOTOR on my iPhone to play over Christmas.
Been a long time since my original Xbox worked.
KOTOR and KOTOR2 are both on Steam. KOTOR2 with the restored content mod is fantastic.
Never played it with the content it was missing. Might have to purchase as well
I highly recommend it.
The plot does a great job breaking down the traditional Star Wars light/dark dichotomy, and the weapon modification system is much, much better.Edit: I misread your post. Either way, play it with the mod, but don't bother with the droid planet mod. It's pretty boring.
Haha yes, my only experience with it was the original version that just ends out of nowhere.
Holy fawkbeans that was the sequel we were looking for. Best one since Empire! Just got back from taking my 5 year old son and watching it through his eyes was completely magical. Well done Disney fixing all of senile Lucas's failures!
I too felt it was almost a reboot of A New Hope in many ways. And I am Ok with that.
Thinking on it, this movie was basically a way for Abrams to say a few different things to different audiences. To long time diehard fans, it was "Ok I promise these won't be like the prequels. This is Star Wars. It's so Star Wars it's kinda like the first one all over again!"
To the new/young audience that Disney wants to capture for movie after movie after merchandising...this was "hey look how fun Star Wars is!"
I am ok with both perspectives, as I was supremely entertained, which was is all I ask for a movie. This will be the first movie in probably a decade+ I see more than once in the theatres
Yeah the sheer number of parallels between this and ep IV is hard to ignore. It's almost as if Disney thought the old movies were too far removed from the next generation of star wars fans, so they just redid it and advanced the stories as they should have been.
I also feel that J.J. Abrams deliberately stayed close to what Star Wars fans are used to, for the first movie, to kind of ease the concerns of "new director" and "George Lucas isn't writing the scripts" critics. I think he did this so the more intense fans accept him as the new director and can he can now "branch out" in the following films.
Even George Lucas said that he didn't want to work with Star Wars any more because the fans were extremely critical of everything and didn't allow him to explore new ideas without backlash. So I'm not surprised that Abrams took the "safe route" initially with his own little twists but I'm expecting this to change in the following two movies.
Otherwise, if the next movie is similar to Empire Strikes Back, then I expect an uproar from a majority of the fanbase...myself included.
Except JJ Abrams isn't directing the next one....
You know, I really hope it works out switching directors and stuff like this...Im glad Abrams is keeping everyone in the loop, but I dont know, I read a qoute that Rian said episode 8 was going to 'get weird'....
I dontttttt know about alllll that....but I guess well see.
iirc, Lucas didn't direct episodes V or VI, and those turned out ok I guess...
Huh....I Never knew that, thats pretty interesting...
OT: any good reviews of recent Star Wars games on Xbox 1 or iPad?
The new SW Battlefront is pretty sweet.
If story is more your thing, just get Knights of the Old Republic on your iPad and thank us in 40-60 hours. It's $9.99 but it still say easily worth the $60 I paid for it a decade ago on xbox.
Star Wars Rebels: Recon Missions is also a very fun platformer for iPhone. My daughter loves it
Way better than the prequels. I feel a few twists coming. I think I'm the only one who doesn't believe Rey is Luke's daughter, her story is just as empty as Finn's.
Finn is a character in need of much development, for sure. But can I ask why you don't think Rey and Luke are related?
I came away (as did my wife, before we talked about it) that Rey is Han and Leia's daughter. Rey takes after Han so much, intuitively flying the Falcon and being all tech-savvy. Though of course Luke (and Anakin before him) had tech proficiency, but she seemed so much more like Han to me. I think Rey and Ren were split when Ren went to train with Luke, because I read somewhere that Luke was insecure about his ability to train padawans. So Han and Leia hedged their bets by having one kid trained and the other sent off for her own protection in case something went wrong. Maybe Luke insisted on it. I think Leia doesn't tell Rey the truth because she wants Rey to figure it out own her own and discover herself.
Interesting theory, Rey being another child of Han and Leia. Certainly not out of the question. It'll be interesting how this shakes out.
Twins do run in her family.
It also sets up a much better showdown. We've already seen the master vs. padawan thing happen a few times over, and we've seen father vs. son, so would they set us up for the epic battle of *gasp* first cousins? Or would they set us up for brother vs. sister, in a battle of the one who chose the light vs. the one who chose the dark (but is still conflicted about it)?
I was really hoping she was Luke's daughter until you made this argument. Stop making good and well thought out arguments!
The other thing I just realized is that the narrative of choice is paramount in Star Wars. You can choose light or dark. If Rey is Luke's daughter, it sort of undermines that narrative - it could be argued that her lineage decided for her that she was destined to be good. If both Rey and Ren are Han and Leia's kids, they have the same lineage and can make the same choices. One chose the dark, one chose the light. We are a product of our choices and actions.
OK, I'll stop making the argument now :)
Welp. Consider me convinced.
There is only one thing holding me back from believing Rey being Leia's daughter instead of Luke's. Hear me out, Luke disappeared roughly the same time as Rey is old. Luke being a true Jedi prevents him from being the father, I mean having a family is what turned his father, I am sure that Luke would try to prevent that from happening to himself. HOWEVER, in a moment of weakness he has a kid. Fearing the turn, he goes into hiding and leaves the child. I also think thats why he left a map, in case the girl is good, she can find him and become a Jedi.
My understanding is that true-old school Jedi were like monks - therefore, no ladies, wives or offspring. No other Jedi appear to have families in the first 6 films and Anakin had to hide his marriage to Padme.
I'm thinking Rey may be related but not directly one of Luke's kids. I'm also not sure Luke knows who she is at this point and, similar to Vadar in Empire may have to find out about a unknown relative.
Also wondering if Finn is tied to Lando inthe next film, as its been said Billy Dee is coming back.
I have a different theory. Rey is a descendant of Anakin's father. There's no real evidence that the force is strong with Anakin's mother, so thats why I'm going this route. We know NOTHING about the Skywalker line after Anakin, but seems to me its possible that Anakin has siblings or half-siblings.
Anakin was conceived through the will of the Force. He has no father.
is it too obvious to assume that Ray is Luke's daughter? Is that so obvious that it just can't be the case and it must be something else that we aren't going to find out until the second (or third?) movie?
So is this confirmed anywhere, or just the quote from Anakin's Mother?
Apparently there is some reference to a biological father in the expanded universe, but that has all been declared non-canon at this point, so the canon narrative is that, to this point, Anakin has no biological father. I don't follow closely enough to know how much the expanded universe narrative might be used in developing the story, but it would appear (from some cursory Internet searching) that anything non-canon is basically rebranded as "Star Wars Legends" and has no sway on the forthcoming storyline. The canon prevails.
An underlying current in Supreme Chancellor Palpatine relaying the legend of Darth Plagueis the Wise, specifically the mention of being able to "influence the midi-chlorians to create life," was a veiled reference to the possibility that Palpatine had a hand in Anakin's conception, perhaps in trying to create the perfect apprentice to be his bulldog during the Jedi purge.
But what about "The Prophecy"??
The prophecy just said there would be a chosen one who brought balance to the Force. It never required a virgin birth.
If Anakin was conceived through the Force by some method Sidious had learned from Plageius, you could certainly argue Anakin was "chosen."
Anakin DID bring balance to the force:
Before:
Light Side: a lot of Jedi
Dark Side: Darth Sideous
After:
Light Side: Yoda and Obi Wan
Dark Side: Darth Sideous and Darth Vader
Balance Achieved
THANK YOU! I have always held that the Jedi Council was idiotic to be all excited about bringing balance to the force at a time when they were, by any metric, winning.
Well, then I guess there's absolutely no need or purpose to these awesome cool films (prequel excluded). Congratulations!
Huh? That's...that's not what I said at all.
The original trilogy stands on its own. I understand the desire to fill in the backstory with prequels, but did not like how they filled it in with nonsense. I was complaining about the (lack of) logic of major players in the plot of the prequels.
I know that's the common interpretation, but I've always had a problem with it. By that logic, Anakin was bringing balance to the number of Jedi vs Sith. He was bringing balance to the Force users, not the Force. The Force was still there, both light and dark, just as it had always been.
I really dislike that Lucas brought a prophecy into it in the first place. For one thing, it's a little too Harry Potter for me. For another, we get one line about a prophecy, and that's it. We don't know if the prophecy actually said there would be a person who "will bring balance to the Force," or if Windu was just paraphrasing a common interpretation of the prophecy. We also don't know how the Force was "out of balance."
When I hear "bring balance to the force," it seems like it would stand to reason that it would mean abandoning the entire light side vs dark side dichotomy and trying to realize that the problems arise when a person clings too tightly to one side and tries to entirely forsake the other. The Jedi were too Vulcan and the Sith were too emo. If there could be a third path that understands that anger, fear and aggression are natural impulses, and rather than be shunned they should be conquered, so they can be used as tools rather than allowing them to dominate you, that would be what I'd consider "bringing balance to the Force."
I'll be honest with you, I never understood it either. I was just being jovial about it.
It is an interesting question about what they meant by "balance" to the force. Maybe someone with more knowledge of the fan fiction could elaborate....?
It's somewhat clear from the original trilogy that removing the Sith would bring balance to the force. This is probably the best explanation as equal numbers of light/dark doesn't make sense and they give so little detail on what that actually entails or what the prophecy actually said in the prequels. These ideas weren't very thought out, as I've mentioned before, as they would have been in Harry Potter or the Tolkien universe. One of the best/worst things about Star Wars was how Lucas pretty much made it up as he went. So we have to live with some poorly explained/vague/even contradictory at times ideas.
I think you're right. And Anakin did bring balance to the Force by fathering Luke, a Jedi who was able to use his anger without letting it consume him.
I think the moment the "prophecy" was fulfilled was when Vader chose his son over his master, sacrificing himself to throw Palpatine down the reactor core of the second Death Star. Vader came back. That's not supposed to happen. I know the Jedi Council dealt in hyperbole (with their "certain point of view") but I don't think Yoda was lying when he said once you start down the dark path, forever will it dominate your destiny. Anakin's return from the dark side opened a new path, and I think Luke followed it. Like you said, Luke could flirt with the dark side without being dominated by it: force-choking Jabba's palace guards while maintaining his calm, giving into his anger against Vader upon Leia being threatened only to reel it right back in as soon as he hears Palpatine's laughter. Granted, it's probably easier when you're a bloodline derived from the Force itself.
Good points. That makes a lot of sense to me.
Great point on Luke - the entire rescue of Han was anti-Jedi. Han should have been given to Jabba due to his prior transgressions. None of Luke's actions were under the guise of peacekeeping, protecting the republic, fighting the dark side or anything else. It was purely a selfish, aggressive attack for personnel benefit - similar to what Anakin did to the Sandpeople. Damn I'm a nerd.
Hmm, interesting point. While I agree that it definitely wasn't peacekeeping or protecting the republic, there is still a difference between rescuing a friend and being out for revenge. Plus he did try to attempt the rescue through non-violent means first and only whipped out the hack'n'slash afterward instead of jumping immediately into rage murderdeathkill. But I agree with your larger point, it wasn't the old-school Jedi type of mentality.
Also, at this time, we don't know that the Jedi are responsible for peacekeeping and there is no republic to protect. The Empire is the enemy of the Rebellion who are trying to re-establish the republic. The scene at Jabba's palace was, as you said, a friend rescuing a friend. I think Luke probably felt indebted to Han after he helped save his tail when fighting the Death Star and again when he rescued Luke on Hoth. The Jedi, their purpose and their place in the world, are a mystery in the OT in terms of how they should conduct themselves. The 2 original Jedi, Yoda and Obi-Wan, have stopped their peacekeeping efforts and gone into hiding. The moment though that a member of the Rebellion, Leia, asks Obi-Wan for her help though, he goes on a rescue mission which he knows will lead him to confronting the Empire and Vader and it wasn't really going to be a friendly encounter.
Good point but Yoda keeps saying that Luke's decision to help his friends will lead to the dark side - telling him that he must stay to complete his training. Definitely some inconsistencies.
I think the reason is because Yoda has a stronger sense of what is to come. He knows that Luke going to rescue his friends shows a lack of control over his emotions, something Yoda is trying to teach him. Yoda also knows he's dying and that the training would not be complete before his own death if Luke left. All this is to show that emotions cloud judgement and when your judgement gets clouded, you act irrationally. Irrational behavior can lead to fear. Fear leads to anger. And you know, anger leads to hate yada yada. It's not the act of helping his friends that will tempt him to the dark side, it's the emotional decision to do so over completing his training that will do so.
FTFY
My impression from looking up the history between the two was that Plagueis was the lead researcher on reanimation and had the most success/experience, and Palpatine was just his assistant, although trained in the ways (except being able to actually pull it off). They were working together to channel the force (as was mentioned above, I think), when "it" drew away from them and concentrated somewhere else, presumably in the womb of Shmi Skywalker. I don't think Palpatine had murdered Plagueis yet, and Anakin's creation would have been an accident or side effect (a problem for them) rather than intentional.
Scientists
Inventing
Tiny
Humans
So while the Prequels were WAY to heavy on the political exposition I sotrt of wish JJ hadnt gone this far away from it.
But from what I can gather, and some of the solicits of the new EU books seem to support:
1. The New Republic has not been anywhere near as successful as the old now "Legends" EU was in half the time, after 30 years they are still only one major player among several, with the First Order being the primary Imperial Remanent faction.
2. After the Battle of Jakku a year or so post Endor, an armistice is signed between the New Republic and the Imperials at the time. This has mostly held while the NR has grown, and the more extreme and aggressive FO formed on the other side.
3. However neither is in a position of being able to dominate conventionally, hence the development of Starkiller Base, and the NR is probably at a loss for political consensus.
4. Thus we have Leia and the more militant minded folks in the NR break away to form the Resistance which we can assume ignores any De-Militarized zones or treaties that may be in effect and receives clandestine support from the NR. Hence the nice new X-WIngs and location relatively close to NR territory(since they kind of see the destruction after all).
I like this interesting new dynamic and am willing to see what the new EU does with it, with the Rebels transition from insurgency to ruling seemingly much less universally successful this time around.
And it is an interesting social commentary when looking of the 3 trilogies depiction of conflict. OT- Brave valiant freedom fighters, PT- Weak Democracies co opted by special interests and faceless soldiers doing the fighting. JJT- Proxy war between super powers.
Interesting thoughts. One thing I couldn't shake is why the resistance (once again, ala rebels) was undermanned, equipment looked shoddy when clearly some likely figureheads at one point amongst the new republic (Leia, Admiral Ackbar) were a part of the resistance. Did the republic just not take the First Order seriously enough to prepare for the First Order? That doesn't seem to make sense because they make it clear that everyone is aware and afraid of the First Order. Regardless, it seemed ridiculous to me that people who should have pull, like Leia, were forced once again to be a part of a small undermanned, lesser equipment, underfunded "resistance" when she was one of the leaders who made it so there could be a New Republic.
I agree, it definitely seems like a major head scratcher that, after the Empire was essentially wiped out with 2 Death Stars being exploded within a short period of time, with at least one Super Star Destroyer eliminated, with the Emperor and Vader, the 2 major heads of their organization eliminated, that the organization somehow came out of it stronger, able to assimilate an entire planet into a star eating superweapon of a home base with who knows how many million crewmembers, all with at least competent combat training. And they keep losing to a ragtag team of rebels and resistance fighters who are... not the best trained as a whole.
Also, with the whole Republic planets getting annihilated, I can't help but think towards the Star Trek universe where JJ came in and made it his own by blowing up Vulcan. Basically said "I know what was done before, but things are different now, and this is now my universe". Felt like he was conveying the same message about the prequels, but blowing up everything those movies were located within.
See below for the official statements of the situation from the Visual Dictionary.
Basically just like her mom Leia got fed up trying to prepare the NR for war through politics.
After some battles after Endor, concluding in a big one over Jakku, where the OTHER Super Star Destroyer ans regular SD wrecks came from, an armistice gets signed and arms control treaties go into effect.
After that just add in a few decades of political ennui and the Imperial Remnant seemingly acting in good faith, and it is easy to see how Leia and Ackbar could be seen by many as rabble rousers and war mongers picking a fight the Republic ready for yet.
A major factor in the leeway granted the First Order, and something that enabled them to build so rapidly is that they were largely operating in uncharted space. Before his death, Palpatine set out to try and find the place from which Sith power originated, and expanded into the outer edges of the galaxy and beyond. The First Order rose in these far reaches, and their growth was unchecked because they were pretty much the only ones in the neighborhood, and the New Republic seemingly didn't know where that neighborhood was.
I absolutely agree with that, however, the part that I am most interested in is that the perception from the first part of the movie I got was no different than the beginning of IV, that the First Order (or empire) was in control, they were feared, they seemed to run shit. It was easy to forget that there was even a New Republic until their planets got obliterated. Some of that is obviously framing, but it would seem the NR should have taken notice to the fear and control the First Order seemed to have, even if it was moreso in the outer rim, outer reaches.
I think this is largely a problem of scale within the movie. They just do a really poor job of showing how truly expansive the galaxy is, so it's easy to give the impression that the First Order is a much bigger deal than it is. When the Empire fell, it created a huge power vacuum, and factions tried to control as much territory as they could. The First Order still has a relatively small sphere of influence, and seemingly is not necessarily interested in galactic control, at least at the point in time shown. Their main objective is to cleanse the galaxy of Jedi first and foremost, and it's only by proxy they have a beef with the Republic. The New Republic allows the Resistance to exist, and occasionally provides direct support, the Resistance has Jedi sympathizers at a minimum, and so the New Republic must be removed simply as an obstacle to wiping out the Jedi. The New Republic didn't directly confront the First Order because they opposed conflict as a principal (which is why Leia formed the Resistance in the first place), and because they simply didn't have the means to police outside their limited sphere of influence.
Unfortunately most of this is either subtext, or gleaned from other canon sources, so most people will make the same assumptions about the First Order's size and apparent supremacy that you did, all because JJ couldn't write like three lines of dialogue explaining the situation.
Thanks! That all makes a lot of sense and I was assuming some of that, but hadn't searched much to confirm those thoughts.
Got a little bored and a little drunk and went down the google rabbit hole after I saw TFA cause I felt like I missed some stuff.
"scale"
Luke is in a part of the galaxy no one even knows about except him and old Empire... 1.5 seconds in hyperspace oughtta do it!
Loved the movie. Not a hardcore Star Wars fan but really enjoyed the film and will probably go watch again.
I thought the trailer for Independence Day 2 before Star Wars was pretty good too. The movie might not turn out really great but i was ready to run thru a wall and shoot down some aliens
You mean the 5th Wave trailer? That I thought "oh, this is Independence Day 2", and then I thought "this is Falling Skies on the big screen", and then they named the film "5th Wave...oh, I think I've heard of it".
So I watched VII again tonight. After reading all the commentary here and having several conversations with others who have seen the movie, I went in with altered expectations. I walked out having enjoyed the movie twice as much as I did the first time. Regardless of the flaws, this is the movie we've been waiting for for 30 years and this is what we were hoping the prequels would be
So this is a direct quote from TFA Visual Dictionary which does a lot to fill in some of the blanks talked about here:
Peace Interrupted
After Years of Rebellion, the death of Emperor Palpatine gave the oppressed peoples of the galaxy undeniable evidence that the Empire could be defeated. A longing for freedom and peace drove a great tide of revolution from sector to sector, to the point where a truce - unthinkable at the height of the Galactic Civil War - was signed between the New Republic and the weakenend Empire. As one of its first acts, the restored Senate promptly passed the Military Disarmament Act. Many were convinced that the age of galaxy-wide conflict was over.
The New Republic
Following its great victory against the empire at the Battle of Endor, the Alliance to Restore the Republic rebranded itself as the New Republic, and shortly afterward a peace treaty - the Galactic Concordance - was signed with the remnants of the Empire. Believing that the Empire was no longer a threat, the New Republic turned its attention to reshaping galactic politics.
The First Order
The Galactic Concordance defanged the Empire's ability to wage war, with strict disarmament treaties and punishing reparations. The Old Empire withered away, becoming a remnant of political hardliners locked in a cold war with the New Republic, before eventually breaking away to reform in the Unknown Regions as the myseterious First Order.
The Resistance
The Resistance is a small private force created by Princess Leia Organa to keep watch on the movements of the First Order. Though she petitions the New Republic government for support, she finds the politics of the Senate too slow and too mixed in self-interest to be of any help. The New Republic tolerates the Resistance, though it is wary of risking war with the First Order.
Source: http://imgur.com/QLGdlDS
So this is interesting very much gives the feel of Europe and the US between the world wars but you know, in SPACE. With the desire to avoid conflict, arms control treaties, rising extremists from the old order, small vocal minority leading the fight while trying to get a larger neutral power into the fight.
Solid conclusion. But you left out the rather blatant Nazi imagery in the scene where the massed First Order stands before the General as he speechifies before using Starkiller.
True but that has pretty much been ever present since the beginning of the series, from the design of the Imperial Uniforms, to the damn troop review in Attack of the Clones, but yes TFA cranks it up to 11.
Pretty sure they gave Hux a left over trench coat from Starship Troopers even, and that movie pretty much OOZED Fascist symbolism.
Interesting stuff, it all makes sense for the most part. Pretty effectively answers the questions I posed above, so my apologies for not reading a bit further and seeing the answer you had already provided. Still a bit curious as to how the clear and obvious aggression of the First Order (they seemingly did as they pleased) and the characters, particularly early in the film, rarely mentioned the Republic and the feel was the the First Order was the feared group in control and that they were the ones dictating how people acted. Seems like the Republic, even with slow, bureaucratic responsiveness, should have taken notice and interest in this growing perception amongst the people in the Galaxy. GRANTED, we are talking about a Galaxy, much harder to govern.
One thing I could imagine is that there are DMZ's or neutral zones between the various powers or some minor non aligned planets or sectors.
Those could be what the FO is gobbling up and stomping under heel, or word of their tactics were slow to filter out of their own territory.
Finn obviously knows how bad it is, but Rey doesn't really seem to hold any animosity to them until she starts getting shot at. Po obviously is on the side of hating the FO, but that is understandable.
I think Luke's absence affects the preparedness a lot too. If you have a Jedi Master around, you'll be much more aware of the enemy
If I may, how awesome is it that my favorite sports blog also allows me, a grown man, to discuss the intricacies of the Star Wars universe in such detail.
The FO are facists...but with a planet that blows up other planets and destroys stars with no Newtonian repercussions!
The New Republic are pacifists...the Resistance is undermanned...with X-wing star fighters and Po Dameron going beast mode!
Daisy Ridley...is pretty hot. Period.
She's like a mix of Olivia Wilde and Kiera Knightley. This is not a bad thing
The British accent is icing on the
cakepieThat is the best description I've heard yet
She had a lot of Keira Knightley's facial mannerisms, glad someone else noticed that connection.
Po is also the actual hero of the movie.
He is the one saving the map to Luke, he is the one keeping BB-8 out of the FO's hands', he is the one forcing the battalion of landing troops to withdraw, he is the one leading the strike on Starkiller Base.
Po Dameron, you the real MVP.
Dare I suggest she's the new Emma???
via GIPHY
Look at those moves!
via GIPHY
And she's damn good at flip cup apparently!
via GIPHY
[trying NOT to be distracted. trying to focus on work]
Deleted. Double post
One other thing I havent seen talked about much is that Finn is essentially the first main character to go through and develop more or less PTSD.
It is obvious the village skirmish and later killings leave him deeply impacted, and the attempted propaganda conditioning dont jive with it. And I did like that it wasnt something he really got over instantly, he for most of the movie tried avoiding more combat situations until forced back into it to try to save Rey after the attack on Maz's place.
Interesting to see what route they go with those visions, there is a chance that they were just the force showing her major events that happened that were very force sensitive (Luke with R2, Kylo Ren surrounded by bodies likely after/during his betrayal) and the like. There is also a chance that she was there and was missed or played dead as a very young child and it brought back memories and then she was hidden afterwards. This is unlikely based on age, but did they mention how long ago Solo jr's defection was? Either way this is just food for thought for people to chew on. If she was 3-4 years old there is a distinct chance she has little to potentially no memory of it. I have almost no memories below age 5ish and I'm the same age as the actress, and assumedly close to the age of her character.
"Uncle Owen!"
TBH this movie reminded me of one of our family reunions when an uncle brought moonshine (I.e. The Force) Cousins fighting cousins, children attacking parents, pets attacking children. Complete and utter mayhem! Then we all go to the beach.
Does anybody remember Mad Magazine? The issue they did right after ROJ? That's what I was laughing to myself about while watching this movie. I want DNA tests!
Even with the terrible click bait article name, you should give this theory a chance. It definitely seems plausible to me.
http://www.inquisitr.com/2649390/star-wars-rey-theory-claims-to-know-who...
Veeeeeeery interesting. It definitely makes sense. Especially when you throw in a dash of "because star wars". I'm not 100% convinced that that is the direction they will head though. Definitely something to mull over
Is there a precedent for reincarnation in star wars? I know there's the 'ghost' of Anakin, Obi-wan, etc, but I can't think of a time that true reincarnation has happened in the past movies? A more likely theory is that she is Luke's cousin - ie, Anakin had a half sibling he was unaware of.
As far as I know there is no precedent, but does there need to be? This trilogy is unknown territory right now and the story can go anywhere, and their reasoning seems sound to me. So I definitely think its very plausible.
Personally, I believe she is Luke's daughter. I think it is the simplest explanation. Star Wars is about the story of the Skywalkers, and I think she is Rey Skywalker. I can't see her being the daughter of a sibling of Anakin. I don't think that would explain her ability with the force because Anakin did not get his affinity to the force form his mother. He was that sensitive because he was a child of the force, so I don't think his mother could have passed on that affinity to another child unless he/she was born from the force as well.
Her being the child of a sibling of Anakin seems unlikely. For starters we know Anakin he no father. And we watched his mother die.
I guess you could say that she had another child before she became a slave, or was perhaps taken from her by slavers before Anakin. But that just doesn't seem like a route that fits Star Wars.
Interesting. But I hope this isn't the direction that they go with. I would still enjoy it, but would seem to come way out of left field for what we have seen in Star Wars (the movies, at least. There are book examples of force users powerful enough to perpetuate their spirit onward into other people. Vader is not the most powerful force user ever)
The shame of it is, in my opinion, they did such a poor job on the prequels developing Anakin as a character, that already had so much going for him.
Ok. Finally saw it. Thoughts: YES it is vastly superior to the prequels, unfortunately (for me) it does not capture the wonder, amazement and awe of the Original Trilogy in terms of the characters or plotline.
Second, even without reading wikidpedia and getting involved in discussions (and I'm happy to say that I successfully achieved that) I KNEW that Han was gonna get killed. You can't have this story without good v evil. Kylo Ren chose the dark side. I get that he was conflicted (& admired that as his character) but agree that he was pathetic against two UNTRAINED newbies. That IS a major inconsistency in the story arc for me.
Lastly, whoever I debated with was correct about Luke & Ani's old saber. But I still believe it is unimportant. I mean a magic saber that only obey's one master? Yeah ok. Not really getting sucked into that one. I mean what about Vader's saber, or Darth Sidious', or Luke's saber from ROTJ, or Obi-Wan's (see where I'm going here with this?)?
Oh and one more thing, I thought there was a trailer that got released sometime last year or very early this year where it showed what looked to be two force figures with lightsabers (one green, the other red) that came together in a clash. Does anybody know what I'm talking about? I've tried to find it again and have thus far been unsuccessful.
Anybody else get the impression during Rey's interrogation, and the subsequent ability to "force" everything, that she got some sort of rebound from Ben, ala Harry/Snape occlumency session? She somehow saw inside his head, or received his power (ala Harry/Voldemort)?
After she shut her eyes she seemed to have figured out a lot about who he was ("you're alone" or whatever she said).
Yeah, that was kinda weird. Also, I was expecting (based on the trailers) for Ren to be way more powerful than he actually was in the film.
At first I thought he was extremely powerful. Have you ever seen someone freeze a blaster shot in mid air? (I know Darth Vader deflected Han's in Empire Strikes Back in Cloud City but he didn't freeze it). After the opening seen, I was thinking "this guy is legit". Even the scene where he levitated his own commander and brought him over to choke him, I was impressed. However, maybe Vader was more efficient by just choking people from a distance.
Then as the movie went on, he became more whiny (must truly want to be like Anakin). Evidently he's only powerful against people who aren't "strong in the ways of the force" because when he confronts Rey, it becomes apparent that he's still a "padawan" (apprentice?) of the dark side.
My impression of Ren during the movie:
First Half = Darth Maul (absolutely a badass)
Second Half = Anakin Skywalker in episodes 2 & 3 (whiny brat that I grew tired of watching)
Hopefully, the next two movies take him back to being a badass.
This is part of the reason why I don't believe that Rey is Luke's daughter. Kylo Ren's moments of weakness are basically all when he encounters his family. The fact that he can't kill Rey in the lightsaber dual, to me, suggests that she is some sort of Kryptonite to him. He gets emotionally weak when Han shows up, though Ren ultimately succumbs to the dark side when he kills him, but then his powers are weak in comparison to what we would expect when he duals Rey.
Either that, or we have a major inconsistency somewhere that will have to be patched up. Ren suddenly going from world-beating badass to whiny teenager just strikes me as odd, without some underlying circumstance.
Kylo Ren's entire character arc is inner conflict. He's pulled in two different directions the entire movie. I think he's a vergence in the Force just like his uncle and grandfather. When he has the conversation with Vader's burnt helmet, he mentions feeling the pull of the light. He's walking the mirror image of Anakin's arc from the prequel trilogy.
Rey, on the other hand, is 100% on the light side. And just from what we've seen in TFA, she is REALLY strong in the Force. Stronger than Luke, considering the powers we've seen her use without any training just by focusing her mind and using the Force.
Ren, being conflicted, falters in the presence of a powerful light sider. He feels the pull of Rey, and a part of him wants to succumb to it.
Also keep in mind, Kylo Ren isn't even fully trained yet himself.
Whoa, whoa, whoa. Let's not kid ourselves here. Once Luke becomes one with the force she may exceed his Grandmaster status, and she may (possibly) be further along than he was in A New Hope. But as you so blatantly pointed out, no training=limit to control (even when focusing). By ROTJ Luke was not only a full-fledged Jedi knight, but it could also be argued that he was almost at Jedi Master.
I'm talking raw talent. We've already seen Rey use telepathy, mind control and telekinesis. The only power we saw Luke use before he trained with Yoda was telekinesis, and he didn't have another person trying to pull that lightsaber in another direction on Hoth.
Also, I'm talking about being strong in the Force, not training rank. Some people just have a stronger connection to the Force than others, regardless of how much training they've received. Anakin's was stronger in the Force than anyone the Jedi Order had ever found. That doesn't mean he was a Jedi Master as soon as he started training under Obi-Wan.
Incorrect. We saw Luke use telepathy and telekinesis in ANH as well as the ability to communicate with Jedi that have passed on (Obi-wan). Just because she displayed these abilities does not, in fact, mean she has a stronger connection with the force than Luke NOW or then. She doesn't even have a stronger connection than Leia.
When did Luke use telekinesis and telepathy in ANH? First time I remember him using telekinesis is in the ice cave on Hoth and telepathy was when he called out to Leia from Bespin.
He used it in the attack on the first Death Star & when communicating with an Obi-wan that had passed to become one with the force.
So Rey is like a true freshman 5-star Jedi recruit with a high ceiling, whereas Luke was a high 3 low 4 star but has the experience of a five year senior?
Yeah, but college football was wiped out years ago, and everyone thinks it's just a myth now..
But did Luke come from Delray Beach, Florida? If so, that make sense because the star ratings don't tend to matter for recruits from that area.
No. Actually, he changed his name to avoid detection from the Empire. His birth name was Lu'Kam Chancelwalker.
While I agree (and am entertained) by most of what you said, I believe that while he's not yet reached the status of Jedi or Sith Lord MASTER, I do believe he is above padawan status and in full-fledged jedi knight level. It's just that his saber technique leave MUCH to be desired. My (limited) analysis is that his saber is more designed for broader and harder strokes to maximize impact and destruction, not for typical caber fencing.
His saber technique is fine for what he does (not fight other people with lightsabers). I find that is technique and lightsaber design is very telling to the kind of person he is, unpolished, jumpy, and angry.
I didn't really think of it that way but you guys seem to be right. His lightsaber is more in the design of a Broadsword (Braveheart style), whereas most lightsabers we've seen are more of a Rapier design (Musketeer style). It does appear that his style of lightsaber reflects his fighting capabilities and that he isn't a very skilled swordsman.
I saw it mentioned somewhere in this thread, but I really hope that Rey ends up with a dual bladed lightsaber. She was using some sort of "space bo staff" in the beginning of the movie, so it just seems right. Plus if you couldn't already tell, I'm a big fan of Darth Maul and I would like to see some variation of his weapon again.
Abrams said that he wanted to go back to the original trilogy style of lightsaber battles and those were the two-handed, strong swinging, heavy impact fights, unlike the quick, CGI-filled battles you saw in the prequels. Vader fought with a similar style to Kylo.
Well in all fairness to Vader, the man had some asthma issues. So he had to fight that way. I doubt he could fight with the same agility as Darth Maul, without the risk of having a panic attack.
Fair, but Luke also fights with a similar style. The musketeer style you are thinking of is only prevalent in the prequels. Classic light saber fighting, see Obi Wan vs Vader, and Luke vs Vader parts 1 and 2, are the two-handed sword style fights.
I've also heard the argument made that the reason the Jedi fought the way they did in the prequels was because they were masters of their craft/fighting style, whereas in the original trilogy, you have Vader, who is half machine, and Luke, who is just learning to become a jedi, so he wouldn't have close to the skill jedi of old had in battle
And Obi Wan's excuse for his style is what? Don't say old age because if anything, Yoda is proof that age is just a number when you watch him flying around in the prequels. The meek appearance of Yoda due to his age is just deception. Luke proved he was nimble as you watch him above the Sarlacc pit. He has the ability to jump, flip, and do all the stuff from the prequels, but in a lightsaber battle, it's not about that as told by the original trilogy.
I think you could still make the age argument while coupling it with your argument. The fact that Obi Wan is able to go toe-to-toe with Vader in episode IV demonstrates him doing what Yoda did in the prequels, but its stated many times that even Jedi cant beat death, and I would argue the effects of old age on the body go along with that
I bet Rey gets training from Luke, then turns to the Dark Side, then Kylo Ren turns to the good side and they fight.
Now this would be interesting. Sad, but interesting nonetheless.
I kinda hope what sets her off is coming back like 2, 3 years later and Finn and Poe are just bro-ing it up, didn't come look for her, didn't message, just hang out, kill bad guys, and do brunch on weekends, and have a healthy platonic friendship without needing he involved.
LMAO! YOU just want Daisy Ridley all to yourself with that Kiera Knightly smile! My gosh she's so hot. She's got the type of smile that just makes ya wanna impregernate her....DEEP IMPACT style.
EDIT: Aw C'MON!
Too far, dude. There's nothing wrong with appreciating someone's appearance. I, too, find her quite attractive. However, you crossed the line into skeezy.
Are you telling me you wouldn't want a kid with a high midi-chlorian count? /s
Two more observations:
1. Perhaps Kylo Ren isn't the bad ass everyone wants because...he just isn't.
Remember how Vader was the HMFIC on his war machines, giving all the orders, dishing all the punishment. Ren seems like just another lieutenant.
Notice the open conflict with the other First Order commander over what to do next. Vader would have choked him out on the spot. (On the other hand, maybe he's been ordered to hold his temper)
As mentioned above, lack of formal face-to-face training; internal conflict; family conflict that is near and alive, unlike Vaders which was hidden or thought to be dead.
And finally, he's only Han & Leia's kid. Not like his dad's a Jedi master or anything.
2. It's called the "Force Awakens". Could this be another convergence, an attempt by the Force to balance or pull away from the Manipulations of the Sith (as it seems to withdraw itself from Darth Plagueis and resolving itself into young Anakin).
This could explain these powers awakening in all of our new heroes to unusual levels for those untrained untrained.
I think this is a safe place to say this- the thread title has "SPOILERS" written on it, so... its your fault if you havent seen it yet and click it, right? Right.
So I just want to say how glad I am my buddy got us all tickets to see it the first Thursday it came out, I cant tell you how many times since I've heard even on accident from people not trying to spoil it for others at work or out or trolls on the intronet "HANS DEAD"
- the faces of the ones who hadnt seen it hahah, the anger ha. the disappointment, I would be furious.
Plot twist: What if... Now hear me out... We find out that everyone is actually dead, because The Resistance had in fact turned to the dark side and annihilated a terrorized First Order in a galaxy-wide apocalypse?!...That in fact, this is all just a false reality concocted by a droid overlord?!
But seriously, I decided to watch it finally this afternoon, after a dental appointment. IMAX 3D did it justice. The action sequences were just first-rate. I loved them displaying the massive scale of the star destroyers, when compared to a lone being. When the Resistance star fighters brought in the close air support the first time, I broke into a huge grin. This film succeeded in providing entertainment from start-to-fish.
But as others have commented, I wasn't too impressed with the villains this time. To be fair, it wasn't until Episode III that I could really appreciate Palpatine/Sidious as an all-powerful bad guy (who until the quick defeat of four jedi masters, I always thought he had his lackeys do his heavy lifting).
I don't think I could ever be friends with someone, who would refuse having a loyal wookiee sidekick, such as Chewie.
To Samuel L's defense, Palpatine only defeated 3 Jedi knights quickly. Mace Windu, a Jedi Master, had Palpatine defeated until Anakin came and distracted him allowing for Palpatine's sucker punch lighting attack.
Mace Wandu a little punk-azz.
I finally saw the movie last night. I have just one question, am I the only person that doesn't want Rey to be Luke's daughter. For me the Force awakening in people that are not Skywalkers would be huge. There where other Force users before the Skywalkers, why not after them too.
I think because supposedly all of the Jedi were extinct and Luke and Leia, the offspring of Anakin, were the only remaining Force Users. There are some problems with this premise though. Obi-Wan Kenobi and Yoda were not extinct. They were strong force users. After Luke's failed attempt to train his nephew he vanished and nobody could find him for years. That leads me to believe that other Force Users from Anakin's generation could have 'vanished' as well and were just thought to have been extinct when really they were just in hiding. I think you're right that there could be non-Skywalker Force Users in the universe but we're led to believe there are none. I think the ambiguity there opens some doors to all sorts of possibilities for Rey's bloodlines. I think it's so painfully obvious that Rey is Luke's daughter that the second movie could easily reveal something entirely different. It'll be interesting to see, that's for sure.
Don't forget the fact that most Jedi/Sith where force sensitive individuals that where then trained to become Jedi/Sith. It is completely in the realm of possibility that the Rey is a person with a strong connection with the force and has no relation to any old characters. Her ancestry may not have any Jedi/Sith at all. I think this explanation would be much better for the Star Wars universe. We already know that being a Skywalker is not a prerequisite for being a Jedi, I want to see them bring that back. Rey being a Skywalker would be too limiting to the story.
This is actually an excellent example of the inconsistencies and many things that are poorly explained in the Star Wars universe. In the original trilogy, there is no reason for you not to believe that every single force user is either a Jedi or a Sith because that is the way it was originally described. What happened in questionably or blatantly non-canon books and video games doesn't matter. It wasn't until the prequels and now these that it was really called into question the idea of someone having the force but not being a jedi or a sith. They even refer to Anakin as a jedi when he is a little kid in the first one, I am pretty sure.
There are/were plenty of other Force users. The Jedi as a group were simply wiped out as an organized a group prior to Episode IV. A few like Yoda and Obi Wan survived. Luke and Leia were special because they were Anankin/Vader's kids.
anyway, back to Episode VII.
Between Episode VI and VII Luke Skywalker was training a new generation of young force-users in the ways of the Jedi, this group included Ben Solo. Meanwhile Snoke (Darth Snoke?) turned Ben Solo to the dark side and Ben joined the Knights of Ren, taking the name Kylo Ren. The Knights of Ren then slaughtered the Jedi trainees and Luke Skywalker fled into self-imposed exile. The Knights of Ren then joined up with the First Order (led by Snoke) and continued their hunt for Skywalker.
i agree. Really hope that is not the case.
If related to anyone I am pulling for Obiwan
A few interesting theories have Rey as a second Anakin, similar to how Jesus was considered the second Adam. Therefore, as a second Anakin, Rey would be in place to restore balance to the force where there is seemingly an imbalance once again. This would suggest that the force cannot be permanently in balance and that there may be a series of "chosen ones." Although if you watched the original trilogy in a vacuum it would suggest that the force is perfectly in balance once the sith were finally defeated in Return of the Jedi. Certainly an interesting theory but there are so many poorly explained things, or situations over complicated by implications Lucas made in the prequels that it's hard to pinpoint why things are the way they are. Very different from a Harry Potter, or especially Tolkien universe where everything is very thoroughly explained.
The Force is just about as balanced (as far as we know) as it has been since the Jedi genocide in the prequels. There's 2 living force using people on the light side (plus Leia, who is force sensitive to some degree, but doesn't use it), and two on the dark side. ROTJ actually would have created an imbalance in the Force by tipped the scales entirely to the light.
Which actually just strengthens my inconsistencies point. That definition of the force being "balanced" is a very literal must be equal dark and light users. I doubt that is what they mean by bringing balance to the force especially since eradicating the Sith was believed to be the key to bringing balance to the force. However, like I said in the previous post, it's not thoroughly explained at any point, where it once again differs from more nuanced and thought out series.
I like this
So apparently there is a book now?
Have you seen this, Have you heard about this?
But I read this pretty cool story on Mashable that has some backstory to some of the questions, maybe if they stick to the book some answers for the next movies. Mashable Article of Book Answers
It's the official authorized novelization, written by Alan Dean Foster, who wrote the original Star Wars novelization, as well as the book Splinter of the Mind's Eye, considered to be the first EU novel (and was also a possible cheaper sequel had Star Wars not done well).
So it is relatively in line with the movie, but as it was written with earlier scripts, some details might have changed between it in the movie. But also, a novelization allows for some creative flexibility to expand what we might not see in the film.
Saw the movie recently and have been pondering it ever since. For that reason I am very conflicted between it being a thought-provoking story, or simply a rehash of ideas with a very thin plot that leaves much to be desired. All-in-all I found it to be a great Star Wars Movie that had a bit too much fan service. As a standalone film it was pretty good and I think reviewers have clouded judgement given all of the hype and nostalgia. It was incredibly well directed and had far less issues than the prequels. I thought the casting was perfect but the entire plot seemed to have been uninspired and the symbolism completely lacked subtlety. Nazi imagery and doomsday weapons have been overdone to the point of ridiculousness and this movie really made it unquestionable. With that said, I believe Abrams' hands were tied since this movie was a huge segue into what will come. It was a necessary evil in that the older characters had to be reintroduced and the pacing of the storyline had to be slowed enough to introduce new characters. It is a great way to please the young and old, as well as retaining the campiness that makes it fun. I really wish the Starkiller sequence didn't feel as rushed as it did, but given how few new characters have been introduced I can't think of many ways in which it could have made more sense. Flaws aside, it seems to be building up to something truly special, If they can keep the style of of the original trilogy but move away from the cliches that have always plagued the story than I will most definitely let Disney have my money in the future. Its an overall fun film that accomplishes its goal of giving people an enjoyable filmgoing experience, and in the end that all that really matters for introducing the series to future generations.
Quick thoughts/opinions:
- I think Fin is a refreshing character. Its nice to see a conflicted character that doesn't become over-the-top heroic or cowardly, and it certainly adds an element that hasn't previously existed in Star Wars
-Kylo Ren was well-done and well-acted. I think the actor suited him perfectly, however I wish there could have been a scene displaying his true abilities to prove that his blaster injury explains why he got his ass handed to him by Rey. That would also signify that while Rey is powerful, she is not unreasonably so.
-Rey is a very bland character. I think anyone at all could fit into that role and it wouldn't have changed the identity of the character. I believe that she is purposefully mysterious and will develop into a more interesting character down the line, but the badass female character with something to prove trope is getting old fast in modern sci-fi and I would have liked to see a more unique personality to balance the character.
-The status of the First Order and Rebels is very vague. The First Order is clearly fighting a war of attrition, yet somehow built a super-weapon that dwarfs any previous.
-Phasma should have played a bigger role. She was clearly a supporting character that seemed to be very under-utilized.
-Retaining the Millennium Falcon is utterly pointless and I hope that it doesn't play a large role in future films. Yes its iconic, but it wares thin when it has the same issues in every damn movie.
-Poe seems to be a future rebel leader with a high prospect of being a main character and I think he adds a fun dimension.
Something tells me that the next film will be excellent. New characters will gain depth and the development of Sith as power players is very exciting. There is a lot of directions that Kylo Ren can choose and it is interesting to see how it plays out. Hell for all we know he may become a very minor villain.
I read somewhere Abrahms has said that the script for Episode VIII is so good he wishes he was directing it.
Question - did the same person write the entire story for episodes 7-9 or did JJ write 7 and then hand it off to someone else for future movies? I can't imagine writing one movie having to take the set-up but haven't heard.
JJ and Lawrence Kasdan (who wrote the script for Empire and Jedi), wrote the final screenplay for 7.
Rian Johnson is writing Episode 8, and is at least writing the first script/treatment for Episode 9. Though I think as an executive producer, JJ has some input on 8, and I think Johnson may have been part of some of the work for 7. SO there will be cohesion in some fashion.
Sorry, I may have misquoted Abrams:
Washington Post article says he thinks it's so good he wishes he wrote it:
https://www.washingtonpost.com/news/comic-riffs/wp/2015/12/22/why-j-j-ab...
This source claims that he thought it was so good he regrets not signing onto the project, and then goes further to say that Abrams wishes he had signed on to direct it.:
http://www.polygon.com/2015/12/23/10658168/the-star-wars-episode-viii-sc...
Either way, it sounds like it'll be good, and Abrams will still be involved as an Executive Producer.
Given JJ was paid $5 mln plus 2% of the box office gross for the first one, I'm sure he'd like to get a piece of the next movie.
So Kylo Ren's story seems inconsistent. He was trained by Luke at a young age and apparently powerful enough to wipe out the entire Jedi training camp by himself. Then he trained under the new emporer for some period of time with the dark side. However he struggles in a light saber duel with Fin (who never even turned on a light saber) and is held in check by a girl who figured out she had the force for like 4 hours.
A bit disappointing the dark side is not as bad ass, as in prior films - Darth Maul, Anakin and Vader were all pretty ruthless warriors when it was time to fight - Ren, not so much.
I was also thrown off by him struggling in the duel against Finn, but then I realized that he had been shot by Chewie in the torso right after stabbing Han. So during the duel with Finn he was injured. As for Rey, I have a theory that she is somehow kin to Luke. Not sure how yet, but just a hunch.
I think that is the super obvious scenario that is intended to be inferred. I think Rey is far more powerful with the Force at this stage than Luke was at a similar stage, though, her cognizance of the Force seems to go in and out. It's almost as though she forgets that she can use the Force at times but when she remembers to focus she has incredible power. It's weird.
I think we're supposed to assume that she is related to Luke and that may be where they go with it in Episode VIII. I wouldn't be shocked if they go a different route though. I'm just curious what that route would be. How will they explain her seemingly immense power?
I agree that Rey has more raw power than Luke did at this stage, but remember that he also had to be reminded to "use the Force" all the time. I liked how most of the things she did were learned by watching Kylo Ren do it first. Kind of a "ooh, let me try doing that" attitude that someone with lots of talent but no training would probably have.
I hadn't noticed this aspect, but thinking back, it makes sense. My line of thinking is still that Rey got some sort of rebound from Kylo Ren's mind during interrogation, but this pairs well with that.
Couple things that may change your opinion on Kylo Ren. First, he didn't wipe out the Jedi trainees alone, the Knights of Ren helped. That was the organization he joined when he turned to the dark side. They are some kind of anti-Jedi faction that emerged post-rebellion. He's also not a Sith Lord. Otherwise his name would be Darth ____. He's only party trained, sort of self-taught, and 100% impulsive and emotional. Kylo's use of a light saber after his time training as a Jedi has pretty much exclusively been against people /not/ wielding their own saber; but I agree that Finn & Rey both seem to be a little TOO proficient with it for never having used one before...
Good clarification on Knihts of Ren. And having just rewatched Empire, Jedi training apparently isn't that long - appears Luke spent a 3 day weekend with Yoda before fighting Vader. Maybe Rey picked it up quick.
But Ren is like 25-30 yrs old. I still would have thought he'd have been doing this for 15-20 years more than the others.
I would think that midochlorian count plus force potential is a factor as well.
I found this today, and its very enlightening
http://mashable.com/2015/12/29/force-awakens-novel/?utm_source=feedburne...
Was I the only one that found the amount of silly humor in the movie a little irritating? I'm fine with some humor, but there seemed to be a lot more in this one than any of the previous episodes.
Naw, there's been silly humor throughout all of the episodes. The droids have always been largely comic relief, plus I'd rather not remind you of Jar-Jar Binks.
I found it light enough to prevent the movie from being too dark and broody but not so much that I couldn't take the movie as a whole seriously.
there were a few moments where the humor stood out to me in a bit of an annoying way but overall I thought it was generally okay
That's pure Abrams I think. I did chuckle when Po asked Kylo Ren who should talk first.
Lol the blowtorch thumbs up was genius.
I thought it was one of the best parts of the movie. Star Wars has always needed a little more levity, and the humor did a great job providing it, at least to me.
I think I know how all this will end. Snoke is actually JarJar and will show up as the ultimate Sith to fight the ultimate Jedi, Chewbacca.
and Greedo is resurrected to be Snoke's, I mean Jar Jar's, apprentice because Kylo Ren will die and....
Maybe this time he'll get to shoot first.
My only gripe is Finn getting defeated with his light sabre by a storm trooper with an electrified stick. Then, he gets a slash hit on Kylo later. I did not see any ill effects on Kylo from that Chewbacca blast to the gut either.
Kylo Ren was shown to be bleeding in his duel with Finn and later with Rey. He also kept pounding his abdomen while fighting with Finn, and it sounded like he had some sort of body armor under his robes.
Just found a new "theory" that Rey is the granddaughter of Obi Wan. It's not completely far fetched, so I'm not going to dismiss it just yet:
Rey is Obi Wan's granddaughter
Not terrible, but the glaring counterpoint is that Obi Wan is the consummate Jedi, and as such would not allow himself to give in to emotions, especially after witnessing firsthand what happened to Anakin.
Much like Annakin was born of the Force, so too was Rey by...LUKE! He thought it was just a bad batch of bantha tacos giving his stomach the business, but lo and behold out pops a micro Jedi master. Naturally the galactic paparazzi would have eaten this up and Luke would've never heard the end of it, so he ships her off to summer camp in Jakku and heads to the high hills for the next decade or two.
FWIW the cartoons for Clone Wars and Rebels, which ARE in the new Canon have strongly hinted that Obi Wan was just as tested by his vows as Anakin was, and he seemed to have a thing for the Governor of Mandalore until she gets offed.
So not outside the realm of consideration that he decided to find a female companion at some point.
I'm still finding it hard to believe that Obi Wan would leave the ways of the force to have children. I'd buy a relation of some sort (grand-niece or something like that), but thats it.
Off Off Topic, but I think y'all will forgive me after watching
I think that Disney will try to tie the Rebels series into the new trilogy somehow. Two ideas on how they could manage it:
1. Having Snoke show up as one of the inquisitors, possibly being introduced in the last tv episode released before Episode VIII is released.
2. Having Rey turn out to be the daughter/granddaughter of one or more of the Characters in the show. Since Rey appears to be human and not be at least partially alien it would make Kanan Jarrus/Hera Syndulla (human/twilek) as parents and Ahsoka Tano(togruta) as her mother unlikely, but Ezra Bridger/Sabine Wren (both human) are possible parents/grandparents for Rey.
I see this thread has been revived. Saw this image somewhere months ago, and I must say the force is strong with this guy's troll game:
It's actually fitting that this would pop back up today...
Btw, side question: has she been impregernated deep impact stylez yet? Just curious. That all. Thanks for posting.
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I really don't get the thinking here at all. Why not do a side story around the time of The Awakening? Wouldn't that make more sense. The whole thing looks like a mixture of The Avengers meets Mad Max with some karate thrown in. I think I way till redbox on this one.
Oh no I love Karate.....but in Stars Wars it's kind of a stretch in my opinion.
Not as big a stretch as you'd think
Have you heard the news that they are doing a young Han Solo movie next year too?
yea, call me simple, but all of these spin off movies are just money grabs and aren't appealing to me at all. Stick "Star Wars" on anything and it will make money but I like the main story lines.
I really don't care much about Han and Chewie before they met up with Luke.
I dunno, this looks like it could be a very good movie, helping to put the pieces together of the main story arc. From what I understand, the story of how the Death Star plans are stolen is pretty intense, so if this movie is able to capture that, it should be a good one.
Now that could be correct but depending on the intentions of the studios here will dictate how actively intense this story will be told. I am really afraid these movies will be seen as filler movies till the new saga comes out. I will watch them, of course, but just really really afraid of the lack of story line these movies may have. I love to be proven wrong in these cases.
Of course they are filler movies! Disney bought the Star Wars franchise for $4 BILLION. They are going to get every penny they possibly can out of it with spinoffs and side story movies. Look at the recent slate of Disney movies. Cinderella, Maleficent, Alice In Wonderland, the upcoming Jungle Book and the onslaught of other remakes they are doing. While many are remaking from animated to live action, the trend of taking old movies that were hits and producing either a sequel or spinoff many years after the fact is effective because of the power of those movies then. They can hit 2 different generations with one PG-13 movie, the original viewers who define part of their childhood by those movies and the new generation who are excited about the story or have their parents getting them hooked on the series.
point taken but i just want them done right.
Frankly at this point, I would pay full price of admission just to see that AT-AT scene on the big screen.
Its a filler in the same sense as Guardians of the Galaxy was a filler movie during the Avengers story arc. Just because its filler doesn't mean it'll be bad.
One other thing to remember, this rebel squad doesn't have control of the force, and they're on a secret mission to stealth steal the plans to the most massive weapon in the galaxy. Entering rooms blasting guns isn't the best idea when you're trying to keep a low profile, hence the need for more conventional hand to hand combat. So that explains the whole ninja thing.
ok ok I will cool my jets. please enjoy Natalie as a peace offering as she enjoys her apple
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I'M SO EXCITED YOU GUYS DON'T EVEN KNOW
Bloooobs! Bluuuubs! Bleewwwwbs!