When you beat UVA. [Mark Umansky]
Virginia Tech closed out its first signature win of the Buzzketball Era Monday night in the Cassell. The Hokies dropped the No. 4 Hoos 70-68.
#Hokies take down #4 Virginia! pic.twitter.com/R1tuGyVmQ2— VT Men's Basketball (@VT_MBBall) January 5, 2016
Joey Coogan's post-game story will be published shortly, until then celebrate appropriately (with GIFs).
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Get on the hype train boys and girls, this program is about to take off.
What Hoos? Woo-Hoo!
If we even play Duke close this weekend I want some goddamn AP votes next week.
The turnaround this team has made since the WVU game is tremendous. Buzz must have put in the best 1:45 of coaching in his career in the locker room last week.
But...but...if you think a postgame speech is enough to turn a season around, you've seen too many movies! I know that because I saw it reported on Twitter!
Ooooooh that's some serious shade being tossed. Don't be so Bitter about it all
Berman and Bitter are looking salty right now. But the work speaks for itself. Buzz took some calculated risks that really paid off and I hope he gets some praise!! Total team effort and anybody can show up any night but Leday might be the heart and soul of this team. HOKIESSSSS 2-0
#LOLUVA
Was Bitter even there, I thought he just Retweeted stuff?
Either way it can be a dick thing to the conduit to most fans and putting players first. Besides if Buzz did nothing wrong why did he apologize after NCST?
Id be miffed too if an important employee didnt show up without warning to a meeting with stakeholders.
He apologized that he was late. Not that he was wrong in doing so.
No exactly, sorry if my point was unclear, was writing two reply's at once.
The putting players first and having that team meeting that might have now saved the season was the right move. The wrong move was not say, or just send an Asst out like guys like Coach K do all the time "The team is meeting right now, dont know the length, Buzz can answer after or I can briefly now, see you at NCST"
Buzz may not answer to anyone outside VT, but Whit's welfare does and is contingent on continuing donations coming in, meaning he does have to keep donors in the public on his mind and like it or not the media corps is still their primary conduit for day to day coverage, precisely because they are not a source paid by VT, that is a good thing. So Buzz making their job harder could down the line make Whit's job harder, making Buzz's job at risk for making Whit's job harder.
Either way for the 4th highest paid employee of the State of Virginia I was very disappointed by how he decided to resolve multiple important and competing obligations.
Great post. I get the media's side of the argument. I get Buzz's side. There's no right answer here.
And honestly Buzz got what the end result everyone even the beat writers wanted, an exciting team people want to know about and watch.
I think everyone will just move forward. Buzz mightve got a talking to about not blowing stuff off and the writers hopefully will get a heads up and live with it in the future, and we avoid the cycle of toxicity that got Greenburg canned.
The fans hate the media too I wish he'd blow off every presser.
The situation may have been avoidable in retrospect, but there was no reason to attack Buzz's character.
But we should just enjoy what's happening: 2-0!!
I only rally saw Bitter and the TSL guy's stuff, was Breman that much worse?
I dotn think you can say, calling a guy out on being a no show, and saying its unprofessional an attack on character?
The number of tweets about Buzz being late was more what made it reach the point of unprofessional. To lodge a complaint once, not a big deal, but to tweet essentially every ten minutes that you are still waiting borders on ridiculous. I dont give the staff at Tech a pass on not keeping these guys in the loop, although the Hokie Bird apparently tried to cheer up Mark Berman while he was waiting. Keep in mind the Lady Hokies were playing the entire time these guys were waiting just about, so they could have been watching Hokie Basketball history being made rather than whining about Buzz not being out for a press conference.
Here are a few from Berman, there were seven total along these lines:
Will just end it with this, Barber handled things better than others.
True enough you have a point taken in aggregate.
Though why do you leave out the tweet Right After the Hokie Bird one from Barber, where he literally says he decided to wait by going to watch the Women and they were already up 5-0?
Barber hasnt really been a big part of the negativity. If anything, he was more like some of my other posts about this, in that he asserted his displeasure once, maybe twice and went about his business. Bitter and Berman are the ones that get the most focus of my negativity. If we want to focus on Barber though, where is his play by play tweeting of the Lady Hokies compared to his play by play of the men's games? The 5-0 score was the only tweet about the Ladies game, not even a game summary, congrats on the win type tweet after their game was over so it makes you wonder how much of it he actually watched. Barber even in his brighter note 5-0 takes a pot shot at the Athletic Department about his seating if you notice. "back here in the rafters of Cassell" so he isnt totally innocent of this expect to be catered to media crowd.
I assume the rafters thing was a comment about their new seating?
And I do agree, that coverage in general of the stellar Womens Team is sadly lacking, just wanted to make sure it was clear that at least one of the writers did go and see them for at least a bit. Lord knows after 4 years watching them in the HT's even when playing great it isn't exactly exciting at times.
They are all narcissistic whiners. If they had families instead of just pets, they might have a better perspective on life.
His character apparently stands for itself with many folks willing to attest.
So these weak bastards went after his clothing. VT colors nonetheless.
Reporters want stories, Buzz gave it to them at a time when noone really cares about VT basketball.
Plenty of time to make up later after everyone starts showing for games, remembering we have a Hoops team.
Almost went to Richmond today, contemplated dropping down for the game. Uggggh. Next year or the next it will take effort and/or $$$$ to get into these games.
I'M IN CANADA BUT I'LL DO MY BEST WITH GIFTORY. HELL OF A GAME, EH?
Sticking it to those hosers
For you youngsters out there......
Hey Occupational Safety is no laughing matter!
via GIPHY
Absolutely awesome win. If we can pull a couple more of these out and win the other games that were supposed to I think an NIT run could be reasonable. But dang whatever was in Shreveport that causes teams to blow big leads must have been spread to basketball.
But dang whatever was in Shreveport that causes teams to blow big leads must have been spread to basketball.
Who gives a crap, we won both games.
Personally, I'd rather close a game out than worry about the stress.
ESPN2 stop saying VAHHH Tech.
Huge win for Buzz, the players, and the program!
Those kids play hard for Buzz and it is paying off. They are very deserving of the first signature win of the Buzz Williams era. Here's to many more to come!
35-5 is still achievable people!
I hope Bronco was watching so he can only get a hint of the disappointment that he will be facing for his entire tenure. And all the UVA fans constantly stated "wait till basketball season" what exactly is it that they were waiting on?!
Ehhhh, women's field hockey perhaps?
Buzz throwing more media shade on the postgame radio show.
The feud is real.
The feud is over. Pretty sure Buzz tyrannosaurus rekt them. Crews are still picking up the pieces of those poor media saps
Which is not a good thing.
Remember what happened the last time we had even ok coach who kept having important relationships for the program go toxic?
Yeah but coaches and players are more important than local media. By a lot. A whole lot.
And I would expect the 4th highest paid employee of the state of Virginia to be better at managing multiple responsibilities over just ignoring one with no warning.
And I would be cautious how many lots you use, when the media coverage turns toxic, that doubles down the negative perception of fans, which means less donation money, which hurts the AD and puts his job at risk, which sure as hell puts a HC's job at risk. And once you get any turnover we are back to square one as the garbage of the ACC.
If this leads to the downfall of our men's basketball program again, I will gladly eat my words. But public and fan opinion is impacted way more by results and national media perception. While Bitter and Berman do have reach, they aren't national like ESPN. Here's to hoping we do nothing to get on ESPN's bad side.
I would also expect the 2nd highest paid representative of the University to not treat people based on what company they work for, exactly as you would seemingly have him do.
All media are worthy of time and consideration. The Babcock Administration's willingness to be open with local and new media is part of why TKP has taken off, not just only caring when the WaPo or ESPN turn up.
Thats not the spirit that was embodied for 29 years on the other side of the house, and I dont think it is one we want in Tech, nor do i think you are actively supporting, just taking your argument to its logical conclusion.
Your portrayal of Buzz seems completely out of line with the character we heard so much about.
Does he have some "process and procedure" stuff he has to iron out? Sure.
Not sure I buy we have a Greenberg situation here.
I dont either, but every toxic situation begins with one incident.
The best groups and organizations reflect and improve, as I believe happened here, Whit is too good and Buzz too committed to not look in the mirror and at least consider how they could avoid similar in the future.
But in the end he did hose on people who rely on him to make a living, and whose job is literally to tell all of us stories about the teams we like. It isnt a bad thing when they call him out for being hosed on.
It is when they continue to personally attack him days after its over. They're definitely more in the wrong at this point and I don't think we need to cater to that group anymore.
Point me to these attacks, Ive gone through Berman, Bitter, and Barbers Twitter feeds and havent seen anything that would seem to be like you would describe, but perhaps I just missed them.
Andy calling Buzz a jerk (or pulling a "jerk move") when he (1) wasn't there and (2) wasn't affected by it, to me, is unprofessional. I think it reflects poorly on him, and I otherwise like Andy and his work.
Barber made a few remarks on the day that it happened, and while it's a bit of sniping, can probably be overlooked. He kept harping on a few things last night and it, to me, was again unprofessional and unnecessary.
Berman is another story. Guy goes out of his way to bitch incessantly about everything related to VT basketball. His seats got moved, his parking got moved (and he went on about this at the Radford game, how nice it was to park close, unlike at some other schools we know...wink wink) and he brings up this damn postgame delay every chance he gets, in every context. It's overboard.
I don't know if any of these rise to the level of "attacks" (I don't think they do), but naturally our fan base is going to defend a coach who we like personally and who generally fits the VT culture (and who has a chance of getting us to win). All of it, to me, just sounds like really sour grapes from the media guys and it undermines their professionalism to keep going on about it. Crack a joke the day of, deal with it, and put your big boy pants on. You cover college sports for a living, quit complaining about how hard your life is.
Thanks for the breakdown!
I definitely got turned off to Basketball by the JJ years and still dont follow the team as closely as others so I for sure dont get as much exposure to Berman, so I can see and remember some of the incidents you do describe and can see how history here goes a long way to building perception. But at this point I dont think his day of tweets were anything to write home about, and his actual game article doesnt even really paint it negatively, just a thing that happened with Buzz trying to get to the team.
I think Bitter's "That only happens in movies" comment was the worse one personally, but even then lets be honest how many times have we seen "intense meetings or players only meetings fall flat". I just dont see how saying "man that sucks that my friends and co workers got handed a shitty day they werent really expecting and nobody kept them up to date about how long it will be, thats a change from the normally respectful and professional workings weve experienced" is stepping over a line that is an important discussion to have.
Buzz is an intense coach, and that means a lot of different things at different times, and he can be doing the right thing since it worked now, and it being a Jerk to others and thats fine. Hell if anything it jives with what we were told about by the Marquette fans when he first came here. But that doesnt mean we shouldnt acknowledge it.
He did acknowledge it, both at the 1:46 minutes after the game when he showed up, ensuring the press that he had been made aware of the unnecessary tweets while they were waiting but also explained that he had a duty to the team and to Whit to do the job he was hired to do. He further apologized after the NC State game as well. That said, all of these media members had another basketball game they could have been watching and were likely responsible for reporting on as the Lady Hokies were setting a Tech record for fewest points ever allowed by a Tech women's team. Instead they sat there and acted childish, posting every few minutes that they were still waiting. Posting once, maybe copying the people they know run the program, that they were not pleased to have to be waiting is one thing, but to sit there like a tweenage girl moaning about having to wait a bit went too far in my opinion. Bitter taking it to the point of calling someone a jerk and questioning Buzz' coaching method especially seems poor after the results of the last two games. I am surprised they arent more upset about not getting an exclusive on what took Buzz 1:46 minutes to come out from the locker room.
Lady Hokies seem to have a great team this year!
13-1 now after knocking off BC. They are the second team in Others Receiving Votes in the AP Top 25 this week. Knock off Louisville and have some teams lose in the back end of the rankings and they could be in next week.
Parnousis (SP?) also got ESPNw player of the week during the PSU, UT week.
High recognition when normally out 10 school absolutely dominate and everyone else I playing for scraps
Bingo!!
Hose? He made them wait an hour and forty-five minutes... after a noon game... on a Wednesday....
If that's getting hosed then doctors, lawyers, auto mechanics, etc all "hose" people who rely on them. Its time to move on...
I could be wrong, but wasn't Greenberg's "toxic relationships" more with boosters, alumni and some in the athletic department? I don't remember it being a media issue.
True...media were "his people" and he treated them better than those he worked with. It was the opposite of Buzz.
His responsibility to the team is infinitely more important than his responsibility to the media. The media can wait, that is their job. To be good in the media, sometimes you have to stand out in the cold and brave the storm, or get a little dirty, or wait a little longer. Part of the job that the good ones get. Those beat writers are not entitled to anything.
Certainly patience is crucial to anyones success, does that make it ok for the Dept to go out of its way to leave them in the dark as a practice?
He did not go out of his way to do anything for them. And he shouldn't have to. That's the point.
Looking at the whole situation Bitter and Berman seem to be upset they were told they are third in line. Should buzz maybe have sent a word out, yes, but he is obviously very in tune with his team. He knew that after the WV game they need some serious soul searching. Who knows what was spoken, but it worked. Then Buzz told the media, your third in line, sorry but I did what I felt was needed.
They aren't used to that, Bitter has probably continually seen his reads drop over the past few months, and Berman is dropping to irrelevancy.
Every loluva fan tonight:
Not because they got punched in the head or hit in the face. Because they're all lax bros, of course.
DUDE. BRAH. LAX IS LYFE.
Oh, fuck yeah! Some people I know gon be hearing about this for a while
SUCK IT UVA!!
JUST
LIKE
FOOT
BALL
god, it's been a long 4 years since we could say that. This team is starting to come together nicely. Can't wait to see them with some more experience under their belts.
That is the most terrifyingly awesome picture I have ever seen.
Reminds me of Kevin Garnett yelling
Edit to show comparison
Zach LeDay and Sam Rogers must hang out on the weekends. Might not be the best players on the court/field every time, but you better believe they're giving you everything they got every single night.
I think we can safely say (at least last night) that Leday was the best player on the court. His interior rebounding and transition offense was key, and also his ability to match London's crazy flurry of 3's was clutch (if not aesthetically pleasing). He kept VT close at a time when UVA was threatening to build a lead. Love his attitude.
This is easily probably top 3 of my favorite photos I've ever taken.
#HourAnd45 needs to be our rallying point this year. What I would do to be inside that locker room after the West Virginia game... Let's prove Bitter wrong this season.
To his credit, he was willing to eat a little crow:
What in the hell is going on in this gif?
I like this soccer pic
Tell me that's John Bonham in the front.
It does rather look like him.
Not sure but there is a definite resemblance.
Check out the creepy silver van lurking in the parking lot. If that's not a child abduction waiting to happen at the playground.....
you sure this isn't ultimate frisbee?
It's been asked several times, so...
http://www.dailymail.co.uk/sport/football/article-3192440/Spanish-defend...
it's called "magic spray" by players and fans but it's a coolant spray
That's hardly eating crow.
Buzz job is to coach up young men for success first, win basketball games second, entertain the media a distant distant third
It is still an obligation of a HC at Tech, could we have imagined Beamer the paragon of what a coach should be doing that?
The fact that he wanted an intense meeting with his team for 2 hours isnt the issue.
Its that he would have been perfectly able to address all his responsibilities by saying "I have to have a tough meeting with my team now, I wont be answering questions till after that, see you at NCST and goodnight"
Dave? Is that you? Buzz is under alot of pressure to win and has a team facing down the barrel of an ACC season they looked just a couple of games ago was not going to go well. You remember those days don't you?
Give the guy a break.
He is the HC of an ACC school and the 2nd highest paid employee of the school, there is no such thing as getting a break.
That isnt the job he signed up for, nor is it the job we saw him wanting to do the first year.
Did the media really need to be told that? No. They pieced it together themselves. That wasn't the problem. The problem was that they wanted quotes to fill a post and they weren't willing to wait for them. How in the world would Buzz know how long that speech is going to take? It's a fluid situation. It takes as long as it needs to take. If they don't want to wait then leave. Barber posted he came back, which I call bullshit on because I am sure his editor told him to get his ass back there and do his job. A job that is dependent upon a coach and team of young players. Not the other way around.
And yet SHOULD the media have had to piece it together for themselves by standing around and reading lips?
Is that really how we want the VT Athletics Dept run?
This represents a break down in communication throughout the organization, and a very unfortunate one, which is a failure of leadership in its own way when a unique situation arises and everyone is wandering around unsure of what is up. Hell Buzz could easily have said "itll be a while if yourre around we can talk" but is crickets really acceptable for how you want an organization that has the goal of winning national titles to run?
Buzz is not infallible, he choose the right option and did it just about the worst way possible. That doesnt mean there isnt a need for assessment here
you make it seem like it was some insidious plan of his. My opinion is that it was not. He simply chose to do what he felt was necessary to lead the team. It had nothing to do with media needing to "read lips" or how the Athletics Dept is run. It was about coaching young men into believing they are more than what they believe they are. That simple.
There was no overt plan to subvert the media, VT athletics or anything else. This is simply coaching.
Would it have been a courtesy to send someone? yes. Was it necessary for the media to understand that he was in a team meeting? No. Should he have sent someone? yes. Could Whit have sent someone in to check, or gone himself? yes. Could the media have waited? yes. Does it suck to wait nearly 2 hours? sure, but it's their job.
You are correct. Buzz is not infallible, but neither are the media that were publicly calling him out on twitter like some teenager who was just grounded. That's bullshit. you have a problem then Whit is standing right there. Go talk to the man. You have a problem, then when you see Buzz you address it. Don't bitch and moan on Twitter. That's not reporting. That's being hyperbolic to attract attention. Is that really how you want VT sports reporting to be like? Is hyperbolic bitching acceptable for how you want sports reporting to be?
At the end of the day it boils down to only one thing: Their job is to report on sports. They merely need to show up and offer summaries and introspection, but they MUST ALWAYS wait for sports to happen before doing their job. Sometimes there are delays. Get over it.
The relationship is one of co-dependence. It is predicated on respect for either side. However, if you feel slighted in that relationship I cannot think of a worse way to express that than calling someone a "jerk" on twitter. Or blasting Twitter every 5 minutes you can't get what you want. That's pathetic. Have the professional courtesy you say you deserve and bring up to the man himself and work it out.
I certainly agree this was not some nefarious plot to avoid talking about a bad loss or anything like that.
'owever, if you feel slighted in that relationship I cannot think of a worse way to express that than calling someone a "jerk" on twitter. Or blasting Twitter every 5 minutes you can't get what you want. That's pathetic. Have the professional courtesy you say you deserve and bring up to the man himself and work it out."
But I want to address this and the related sentiment above on your post, where you mention hashing it out or bringing it up behind closed doors. Certainly that is a desirable avenue for redress to get policies changed or SOP's modified to react to new situations.
But the public airing of grievances is also one as well, and Twitter is not an inherently good or bad tool for this.
In this age where we all talk about transparency from our govt, from our cable bill, from our food ingredients, I dotn mind some from our reporters and our Athletics teams. You mentioned Watergate earlier, hyperbole I know right here, but that never would have broken if Woodward and Bernstein took your advice about handling percieved wrongs in person.
I would rather know why coverage might shift on a person, and if there is an underlying factor, and judge based on available evidence if I believe response were adequate or not. I also am pretty bummed that Buzz tried to have it both ways, that he doesnt use Twitter great, and doesnt follow reports, but gets mad when he feels he is treated unfairly. To be a bit of both as everyone is is fine and human, but it isnt a great basis for a complaint.
So in the end I reject that pretty much all the tweets sent that night were out of line. They were keeping everyone informed of up to the minute reporting on the Team, and are valuable for recording the on going situation and VT's response, or lack there of to mitigate it.
And there is nothing wrong with saying you feel another person broke standard professional conduct expectations, ergo acted like a jerk, if we didnt have outsiders able to call us on stuff what sort of world would it be? That isnt being hyperbolic, its drawing attention to a sudden unwarned of deviation from a pattern followed by essentially every coach at every school and that is time tested. I would be more concerned if the reporters did not comment on it.
And one final point a sit is indeed late and im starting to get into rambling.
Im sure Bitter would be very surprised that sports reporting MUST ALWAYS wait for sports to happen. Sinc eyou know most of his articles do occur during the off season. I know the larger point you were making about the relationship. But you have to admit that it is an imperfect model at best, and that there are plenty of other ways a reporter could construct a meaningful article other than from notes from a post game press conference. But the limited number and comparative meaningfulness of games to us fans means it behooves everyone invovled to disseminate as much information as possible from them.
But that is it, im sure everyone will be another day into the rebuild, the team wont need another meeting, everyone will have learned something and cooled down more,a nd the win will still look damn great in the morning.
you and I fundamentally disagree here.
I don't mind them using twitter. Even airing our grievances on twitter is acceptable. here's how I would see that tweet looking like to where it was actually reporting the sports news: Hey sports fans, an hour and counting. Buzz still rallying the troops. Might be good to get coordination on lengthy pep talks in the future.
This makes the point that they were made to wait without word. Makes the point that there is a lack of professional courtesy. AND reports on sports which is their job.
How does that compare to: "kind of a jerk move by Buzz"? That is hyperbole. That is not reporting.
My point about watergate and always waiting for sports is that sports reporters are there at the pleasure of sports. Unless they are some kind of investigative reporter then they need to wait for sports to happen. Off season reporting is also of this ilk, because it must wait for the season of sports to happen before they can report on the previous year and speculate on the upcoming year. Additionally, off season is routine in that you wait for Signing day to happen and report, you wait for Spring Ball and report, you wait for offseason injuries or incidents and report, you wait for next year recruit commits and report, you wait for summer practice and report... it's all a waiting game. They are not out there working deep throat and investigating what is going on under the hood. they are reporting on the vehicle. Nothing wrong with that, but there is always the constant that they must always wait for sports to happen. that's the business model.
So yes, it sucks they waited nearly 2 hours. But it's not the slap in the face they are making it out to be. Nor is it some designed scheme of Buzz to blow them off. So again, stop being hyperbolic and do your job, which is wait for sports to happen and report it. If you feel that your job is being impeded then bring it up professionally, don't be hyperbolic on a public forum for splash effect.
I think there is honestly only one point we really dont see pretty similar one.
That if Bitter, who does not cover the team, and only does football, saying it was KIND of a Jerk move for his co workers and friends to have a shitty extra long day at the office out of the blue and at the time not knowing how extra long it would be because nobody told them what was going on, is Hyperbolic.
I dont find it to be, I find it pretty tame criticism, and a request that communication flow to simply keeping people posted is not a tough expectation, or even a hard one to accomplish.
Clearly you see it otherwise and I think that is the crux of us approaching the whole rest of it from different views, and fair enough I Dont see some deeper hidden angst or malus, just a dude mentioning his buddies got hosed on, and clearly that crosses a line for you.
Well we have laid out our reasons and on the internet that is the best you can do.
Wrong. This is a dude with a paying job to report sports news. Not bitch about how life is unfair for his other sports writer buddies. Look at some of the comments above (not exhaustive, just what I pulled in last 3 mins)
Bitter seems to think Buzz is obligated to him and the media first and foremost.
Bitter seems to think because Buzz is paid he needs to honor that according to their schedule, but doesn't allow that they also get paid to do a job which is to report on sports no matter how long it takes.
Bitter seems to think Buzz is routinely unprofessional to media because he puts the team and not the media first.
He wasn't there. He isn't reporting on it, yet he STILL has the need to call Buzz a "jerk" without "professional courtesy" and stating many times that because he is paid to do the job he is beholding to the media. Everything about that is wrong. This is not how you report sports news. Nor is it how someone with an audience looking for sports news should be treating their professional relationship with the school they are paid to cover. If it is then why in the hell should Buzz offer any professional courtesy to them? This is not some dude supporting his buddies. This is a guy with a paid job with a professional relationship with the school taking potshots at one of it's coaches in an unprofessional manner.
I have no sympathies. They get paid and comp'd to cover games. If they have to wait a little while here and there while the coach addresses issues he feels is more important, so be it. They are the media, they report the news. They aren't the news, nor should they be creating it.
In fact, with the ongoing death of the regional reporter with newspapers going belly-up and regional sports columnists being replaced by specialized beat reporters for the national sites, they should just be thankful to still be employed. They're basically paid groupies. The school has zero obligation to them because they're replaceable, and in the grand scheme of things, they're completely irrelevant.
ANd I don't have problem with any of those tweets, except for one, the 4:20 one saying Buzz is the only guy in the country who would do this. That one did cross the line and deserves an apology.
Every other one I am fine with.
You have to admit though that it makes Bitter look a bit hypocritical to complain about Buzz's professionalism while Andy is being somewhat less than professional. At the end of the day though, this is a big time nonissue and everyone (Buzz, media, we happy band of assholes, everyone) should probably just let this go and focus on basketball.
message doesn't ring the same if you say "hold on guys. I have to go tell the media I won't be able to do my presser right now.. I'll be right back to start our talk." Doesn't work that way. This entire thread you've done nothing but comment on this situation and bloviate about him being a high paid employee, etc. Have said nothing about the team or the big win that just took place. Good for you, pal.
Because how a coach conducts himself or runs his Dept is bigger than any one win.
So you are damn right I am going to care more about how our coaches act than one win, any one win.
I dont think this will be a trend, I think Buzz himself showed he felt he treated the reporters poorly when he apologized for them waiting without any word at all after the NCST game. I think Buzz reflected on it and thought himself it could have been handled differently.
" "hold on guys. I have to go tell the media I won't be able to do my presser right now.. I'll be right back to start our talk." Doesn't work that way."
No you cannot objectively say that, just as Bitter couldnt objectively say it could have waited, there is no way to prove either, that it worked, or seems to have how he handled it does not make it the only way it could have.
I think it does work work that day. The kids in the floor probably needed to hear that they were his #1 priority. Taking the time to tell the media he was going to be a bit seems like its answering a phone call while arguing with your wife.... Doesn't work very well.
I don't see the two sides finding a consensus on this. Those on one side agree it wasn't handled smoothly, but we all agree Bitter is all kinds of butthurt and Berman is a cry baby.
Other side agrees is wasn't handled smoothly, and doesn't seem to understand the psyche is 19-20 year old boys is a fragile thing and needed to be addressed.
If time was of the absolute essence to salvaging the team's year, why even take the 10 minutes to get everyone into the locker room, why not do it in the hallway, or Coach Carter style on the darn court right then?
Hyperbole 100% I fully admit, but you have to see that the idea that the team needed to have the meeting absolutely ASAP isn't perfect either.
you can't say that. No one knows what impact not having that talk immediately would have had. chaos theory and butterflies.
but let's say you're right. it would have no impact. Then we can also surmise that the media did not need to see Buzz absolutely ASAP either. so point is moot.
When it comes to knowing what was needed to get this team back on track, I'll defer to the person who recruited these kids for years, and deals with them on a daily intimate basis over the media who just wanted to go home early.
Doesn't seem like he is at all. Bitter seems to still think that Buzz is obligated to him first and not to the team. That's bullshit. There is zero instance in which Buzz's job defined responsibility to do media coverage is of more importance than what Buzz feels is needed to be done with the team.
For Bitter to suggest that the same speech could be done after doing the media presser is ludicrous, and leads me to believe that:
a) Bitter has never really played organized sports at a high competition level. You don't delay leadership to answer some questions. You display leadership when leadership is required. If Bitter honestly believes the impact of that speech would be the same after a 30 minute presser to the media then he's been watching too much Newsroom. Get off it. You're not breaking the Watergate scandal, you're reporting sports.
b) Bitter feels the media's time is of greater importance than that of those they are reporting on. News flash dipshit, you have no job without those kids that need a coach to give them an hour and 45 minute pep talk.
Total bullshit.
You also dont leave stake holders in the dark.
There is more than just Buzz on the staff. Send an Asst, hell send a GA out to say this is going to be a long time.
Whit Babcock stood with the Press waiting too, per multiple reports between the TSL guys and Breman, and then decided to leave. That is a failure of communication to leave multiple important parties in the dark as to even what the timeline looked like. That is a failure of leadership right there.
And for the 2nd highest paid Virginia Tech employee not the standard of excellence we should expect, or that he demonstrated thus far in his tenure.
Do I believe it is going to be a pattern? No I think by the end of this season he will have total player buy in and not need any more Come to Jesus meetings.
But that doesnt mean we cant learn form the incident and reflect on ways to improve the organization.
They are not stakeholders. They are reporters. In regards to time, read my comment above. Understanding it would take a long time was not the issue. the issue is they were not willing to wait.
.
It's not Buzz's job to lead the media. It's his job to lead the team.
I fully expect the 2nd highest paid Virginia Tech employee whose responsibility is to build a winning basketball program to take the steps necessary to win. Answering questions to media will never result in winning. What creates winning is by leading, which he did, which is why we have now won 2 straight against ACC competition. Is there any other proof needed to show that he made the correct decision? nope.
> They are not stakeholders. They are reporters. In regards to time, read my comment above. Understanding it would take a long time was not the issue. the issue is they were not willing to wait.
They were made stakeholders when given a Press Pass and VT invited them in to better share the story of VT Basketball.
> it would take a long time was not the issue. the issue is they were not willing to wait.
Bullshit, I just went back and read the series of tweets, first they are just like WTF, then, this is weird and sucks and man he missed Laazer on radio too, then "this is unprofessional" VT missed a chance to say the team was meeting with Buzz and at his decision. To even just say to the Press yes we will have Buzz come out ASAP is a sign of respect but does not force a coach to act that second.
> It's not Buzz's job to lead the media. It's his job to lead the team.
His contract acknowledges required media interactions, both with Press Conferences, and the in house IMG deal. It was a failure of personal leadership to blow one off without a "hey I know you are out there" and a failure of the Basketball Staff as a whole which he leads to at least address it with some sort of official comment.
Weird how there are so many different types of leadership right?
> Answering questions to media will never result in winning. What creates winning is by leading, which he did, which is why we have now won 2 straight against ACC competition.
And you sure as shit can figure out how to do both. Again the simplest question here is do we think that is something Beamer would have done? He managed to win at the highest levels, indeed higher levels than Buzz, so clearly his approach was successful and one that has always been seen as desirable.
Stakeholders have a vested interest in the success of the program. Reporters will report whether the program wins or loses. They are not stakeholders. They are reporters.
Regarding time: I said the issue is "they were unwilling to wait". You countered by saying you reread the tweets and their first response was "WTF". And you think that doesn't prove my point? Their first reaction was "WTF" because they were unwilling to wait. simple.
Yes and I am sure every one of those reporters has a contract that states they are required to wait and report on sports. Buzz wasn't "blowing them off" either. He was leading his team. I am sure he would have taken whatever time necessary after he was done to address the media had they asked for it. They simply could have told Whit or the athletics dept staff that they need Buzz after the meeting, and could have gone off to do what they needed. That is as simple as Buzz sending someone out. Yet, instead they took to twitter to be hyperbolic.
Weird how leadership could come from reporters as well and not just the coach, right?
Again, where are you reading that Buzz was 'blowing them off"? He wasn't. He was coaching his team. In regards to Beamer, do I even need to say the words "they'll get after ya" to point out the media's eternal frustration with Beamer for not giving anything substantial in press conferences? It's been a gripe for more than a decade. Yet it was there every damn presser. Buzz on the other hand seems to give honest, thoughtful responses to questions with great detail. He simply believes he needs to put coaching the team before his other job responsibilities, which it is.
"Stakeholders have a vested interest in the success of the program. "
and does a winning program garner more coverage at all levels, damn right it does, more pages get viewed and paper bought. They benefit just as much from wins, just look at the state of DC sports media, your analysis rings false.
Lets take a look at Berman's Tweets then since they seem to be most controversial.
About 45 minutes post game after the WVU guys had come through he tweets "Buzz still mtg with team" and then updated 8 more over the next hour. And had over 40 tweets in just the second half of the actual game. That isnt badgering on Twitter, that is literally tweeting at a reduced rate keeping followers informed of why they havent seen quotes yet.
He also did address them for a few minutes and so did LeDay, and you know what in the gamr article Williams isnt roasted for hosing the reporters, it is a bit of a lyrical entrance and thats basically it.
So your narrative too of the hyperbolic media ring false as we dont see him hit for it in their actual articles, simply the platform which keeps everyone up to date keeping people up to date
Berman WVU aticle.
yes, winning means more press coverage. That's how it works. Still doesn't make reporters stakeholders. It makes them reporters, just means there are more of them when we are winning.
I actually don't find Berman's tweets that bad either, so what are you talking about? My post here is in response to Bitter. I think Bitter is the most disgruntled out there. As I posted above and in the other thread, my main grievance is with him. I think his perspective of Buzz being obligated to him before the team is bullshit. He isn't obligated to Bitter first and he needs to learn that. And his posts were hyperbolic.
So what rings false? I think it's your assumption that I am talking about Berman. And just because Bitter didn't continue the hyperbole in his article does not mean he wasn't hyperbolic in his tweets. This isn't the playground where I say "you smell" one minute and "you're my best friend" the next and it's all swings and seesaws. If at some point either in his article or in his tweets he said: you know what. bad form on my part for calling him a jerk and exacerbating the situation. Instead, he doubles down and insinuates that Buzz is obligated to address him before coaching the team. No, it does not work that way.
I take Berman as the example, because he was the closest one to the "Hyperbolic complaining on Twitter every 5 minutes" that you railed against earlier since he updated most often of him, Barber, and Bitter.
And I am really not seeing where you have this problem with Bitter, he wasnt there, he doesnt write Basketball articles, he doesnt cover basketball games, he was literally just commenting on things that were happening to his co workers. And that is A Ok. So there IS NO Article from Bitter because he was just pointing out his friends and co workers had a shitty day at the office that they were not expecting.
Are you mad about Bitter saying Buzz was "KIND of a Jerk for being almost 2 hours late?" When he later says "Goo Point (as tot he timing of the speech possibly being key from emotional point) but that none of us actually know and it is just as possible that a brief statement to the media could have occurred without loss of effectiveness if Buzz truly is as great behind closed doors as were are led to believe in public.
Bitter's Twitter Feed, what was so bad?
Guitarman covered Berman above, so I don't have to go into that. Suffice to say, these tweets not so bad but he had history so those that know, know that he is bitching while tweeting 5 minute updates.
And I covered Bitter in reply to you above. my issue with Bitter is how he sees him and the media entitled to something before the team. They are not. He is not. They are afforded the opportunity to be in the press room and report on VT sports. That's what the press pass does. The press pass does not make the coach obligated to you in any way whatsoever.
Buzz should do what he wants, but continued community rage over a few reporter's tweets seems a bit overblown as well.
Buzz said his piece. Let's move on.
please. there is no "continued community rage". Everyone is responding to tweets as they come.
Oh. In that case, keep us posted.
For anyone staying up the best game of the year so far is on ESPN right now.
It'll deservedly overshadow our win. #1 vs #2 in 3OT. Doesn't get much better than that
I don't know, watching Fake Bo Pelini live tweet the game to Donald Trump is pretty fun to watch!
Links?
I'm at work and can't access it but it should be pretty easy to find if you just look up Fake Bo Pelini on twitter.
Holy hell the reddit postgame thread was rough. So much salt man I tried to be nice now I gotta avoid celebrating too hard or I'll be called a redneck etc.
Edit: Regardless of how fans act please Hokies let's remain respectful (and act like we've won a game before) it's a big rivalry but there's no reason to be a jerk. Enjoy the win!
Did you see the butthurt UVA fan with the dipping comment?
Nah just the one calling us toothless rednecks.
Jokes on him I have all my teeth and 0 smug.
lol classic LOLuva.
Buzzinga.
Just the fact that this exists makes me laugh.
I thought it was pretty amicable actually. Don't let the few salty ones sway your judgement. Also I see you go by the same username on here as well as reddit haha. Kinda mad I didn't do that as well.
Awesome win. A much needed building block win too. Anyone that's followed the team closely knows its getting better incrementally but wins like this are always important because its something tangible to point to and say "See, we're moving in the right direction. Jump on board".
And Buzz put in some great coaching effort for this specific game. I feel like we need a film breakdown because there were some very smart cuts against UVA's packline defense that led to good shots and some textbook perfect out of bounds plays. This is the kind of stuff I was dreaming about the second I saw he was hired.
Hudson was dropping some dimes. And Blackshear and Leday have some soft hands for big men to reel them in and finish in the paint.
Holy Basketball relevance batman! VT basketball is watchable again. Leday, Hudson, Blackshear, Bibbs. Future looks good for Buzz and the boys.
P.S. I loved that little Bobblehead guy (London?) from UVA. By the end of the game he was damn quiet after mugging for the crowd after an early 2nd half start.
I've missed a few games the past couple of weeks, so I've missed a lot of our best efforts, but this doesn't look like the same team from early Dec
We have to put our dog down tomorrow and not much could have made me smile tonight like beating UVA. I desperately needed this. Thanks Buzz.
Sorry to hear this , hopefully a win over Duke this Saturday will also help. Sending well wishes your way.
We had to put ours down three weeks before Christmas. Condolences.
Thank you both, and I apologize for bringing negativity to this otherwise positive topic. But I went into this game thinking, "It's just a game, and it doesn't really matter," and that would've been true if we had lost. But this win really made me feel better. Funny how sports can make us feel, especially when it comes to the Hokies. Great win tonight.
Sorrow and negativity are two completely different things.
Wishing you strength today.
Terribly sorry to hear this I hope one day you'll only remember the great times with him and be able to smile
Good luck today, put mine down day before Thanksgiving. Still tear up thinking about him.
Yawn... playing loluva is getting boring, and somebody tell cory Alexander vt can shoot the 3 too.
I must admit, this is the first time all season I have watched a VT basketball game from start to finish. We don't get too many out here in Scottsdale at a time when the kids are sleeping.
Really liked what I saw from the young guys. I think it's obvious what Buzz' vision is. These guys are playing hard for him, and that's the best reflection of a coach you can ask for. A bit more experience, some more recruiting, I can see good things ahead
LIVE look at the LOLUVA campus...
Best part of the whole game was when the four UVA fans behind me left the game in complete disgust with 4 minutes left to go, everyone got a good chuckle outta that one!!!
Looks like that meeting paid off for Buzz, this team looks really cohesive and great right now. LOOK OUT DOOK HERE WE COME!!!
I heard the comments tonight about the ACC being like the old Big East in terms of there being no easy nights. Buzz's teams were best in that kind of environment. A how much more do you want it than the other team type environment. Not the most skilled team, but we're the most gritty by far and that alone will get us a few more wins.
You gotta love that hard-nosed effort. There's no doubt there has been a big swing in how hard this team plays over the last two games. As long as that continues I think we will be able to compete with just about anybody on most nights.
We may or may not win another conference game this year but AT LEAST WE HAVE A PULSE AGAIN!!
Already got 2 in the bag and the team is playing with solid guard play and some competent scoring bigs, you think we are done for the year?
NOPE.
I mean, if we just ended the year right now we would finish with a win over UVA and undefeated in ACC play, just a thought!
At this point, anything else is really icing on the cake. We've already exceeded expectations x1000 in these first 2 conference games. IT FEELS SO GOOD!
In all honesty, I thought we'd be better than 2-14 in league play, but I feel your positive vibes. It's all up from here. even if we slide a bit, the bar has been raised.
My thoughts have been a roller coaster since the season started. I better just sit back, relax, and enjoy the ride!
As the season approached I was hopeful that we would finish between 7-9th place in ACC. Then St. Joe's and WVU happened and had me thinking that we might barely scrape by BC at the bottom. Especially with Clarke out. Now? No idea.
I'm just gonna put this out there and then walk away: the left hand placement in that .gif is a little unfortunate.
Couldn't watch the game tonight, but checked TKP and BAM
Hot damn and Holy DOGSHIT! Victory up the ass baby! JUST LIKE FOOTBALL!!!
Well said
Andy Bitter already lost his creds here at TKP imo & now the joint reporting with the Times & the Pilot (don't know what that has to do with anything) is gone , and the bitching about the press seats at Cassell and finally this about the wait after WVU. I just have lost all respect for him. Do I feel someone should have come out & told them it was going to be a while? Yes, I do but I totally can't respect anyone who is supposed to be a professional and write objective reports (yeah, right) on their area of responsibility to get all unprofessional and go on a tirade that was childish at best. I also believe that reporters can sway "stakeholders" somewhat but not to the extent that ESPN reporters might. Do you think Johnny Lawson gives a crap about what Bitter or Berman says or thinks and therefore stops donating his millions to Tech athletics? I don't think so. I'm not downplaying that Tech should and needs to have good rapport with the media and I believe that Whit will handle this in the future but I also am positive that he won't barge into the locker room and interrupt Buzz having a come to Jesus with his players and tell him to go speak to the media. If Buzz's plan ends up fruitful and we start to win and move up in the ACC, I think the fans, donors and other "stakeholders" will be just fine with their support despite any crybaby reporters.
Here's my take. I am perfectly comfortable with the fact that some people might find it a bit excessive.
Mark, Andy, et al: Shut the fuck up.
You want to complain about bad seats and long waits to pepper a coach with questions? You are journalists. You have a career that, so long as you meet your deadlines, is shielded by Constitutional protection. You can write whatever you want without fear of legal repercussion.
You also have colleagues in journalism who put their ass on the line every day, covering world events. You have colleagues who have literally lost their heads doing their job. Your biggest concern is if the coffee is too warm. You have it pretty fucking good.
Stop acting like children. When I see reporters act like you, it reminds me of my favorite Hunter S. Thomspon quote.
Seems to encapsulate Mark Berman rather perfectly.
via GIPHY
Nice....
I don't disagree with the sentiment, but I'm wondering why we're wasting our victory lap on local reporter-bashing.
It may feel good, but I think Buzz had a level and sufficient response.
Bitter doesn't come across as a huge fan, but I don't find his coverage all that bad. Also, he used to be a member here, and I prefer good press to bad press.
Huge fan of Hunter S. Thompson but had never heard that quote. Very good one.
I studied journalism and communication at VT, then graduated with a degree in it and really thought I wanted to make a career out of it. I've got an extremely small shred of experience in this. After writing at the Fauquier Times-Democrat in Warrenton, interning at WSLS in Roanoke and being an on air "talent" for local Blacksburg ESPN 980, I realized that besides not paying shit, the news business is repetitive, boring and frankly kind of comical, which is exactly what this media vs. coaches battle has become. So glad I stepped out of it a year after college.
Nowhere in the journalism industry are you taught that you as the reporter are priority number one. It is your job to go seek out the facts, truth, get the video, photos, quotes, etc. and spread the word to the masses. If that takes an extra two hours on one random night of the week, that's what it takes. These reporters know and understand this. Putting your main source of information on the spot on twitter is not a wise move in my opinion for someone who's job relies on that information at the end of the day. Grow up, let it go and move on to the next basketball game and next news story.
Also studied journalilsm and communication at VT, worked at WVEC in Norfolk for a year before my current job, and I agree with your sentiment 100%. Both at VT and at the station, the onus was always on you as the reporter to get the facts, video, etc exactly as you stated. You don't just get fed quotes and stories by the public. Definitely agree on the repetitiveness of tv news/ journalism. From the types of stories, to blocking parts of shows, to format, most of the material is the same. I'm kind of worried that one day it'll all become "hot takez" for the sake of viewership and advertising money, and that solid intellectual reporting will drop off significantly.
I'm kind of worried that one day it'll all become "hot takez" for the sake of viewership and advertising money, and that solid intellectual reporting will drop off significantly.
Oh? I thought we were already there.
It seems to me that the political optics of a story get reported 24/7, but the underlying issues and analysis never seem to make the reports.
We're already there
Live look at Jefferson Park Ave....
Watching on TV last night, it was amazing to see, then just as amazing to hear the faint "JUST LIKE FOOTBALL" ringing out through Cassell
ah man, I missed the chant!!!! damn it!!!
I love UVA fans. Talking about a LOLUVA loss this is their response.
What does that make LOLUVA football then?
This must be garbage from TheSabre.
Yeah... their basketball team just lost to someone who lost to Alabama State, so they are going to grasp at whatever they can.
But think about it... we have current bragging rights over them in everything that they consider matters. Football? They just hired Bronco Mendenhall, so good for them, right? 12 in a row and we just secured what pretty much everyone considers the best hire of the offseason. Boom. They won it all in baseball, right, so that's great! Yeah, we swept their asses last year. Facial. But they have a great basketball team, and just climbed into the Top 4. Yeah, only to fall to us a couple hours later.
Good thing we don't have a men's lacrosse team...
We would be so good at lacrosse
So, I have no idea what happened...but does TKP not like Andy Bitter anymore or something?
Bitter doesn't even cover basketball.
But when Buzz didn't show for his postgame for 1:45 after the WVU game, the local media got all bent and Bitter chimed in that Buzz was the only coach in the country who did this and that postgame speeches don't turn around seasons.
Considering that Bitter was snarky about non-traditional media this football season and his fallout with TKP regarding opposing media interviews, you can see why the relationship has soured.
Wait I caught the "that only happens in movies tweet" but damn where was the other one it would change my perception of the incident if he did say things to that effect.
But even with the movies tweet he even replys that it was a good point about timing, but with theoreticals we honestly cannot know since nobody was in the room what options existed, and pointing out possible alternatives shoudlnt be enough to skewer a guy over.
Can we get a summary of what happened with Bitter this past fall, I wasn't around for that.
I think some soured after the whole "conflict of interest" thing about opposing team interviews back in the Fall.
But yeah if saying it wasnt really cool how his co workers had post game, and posing theoreticals about how to handle stuff is enough to turn against, I mean come on.
That smacks of Buzz mentioning he liked talking to Laaser and such because they had to like Tech isnt the solution. There is a very good reason you dont want press coverage by nothing but fans, group think is very real, and we need outside voices even when they say things we dont like about either the team or raise questions about if the program is run as well as it could be. Just like you shoudlt only watch one news show or read one papaer, you shouldnt get your sports coverage from one source, now that TKP has its credentials its a perfect leg because now everybody had direct access first hand, and its good to see how different sources draw different or the same conclusions.
You remind me of my teenage and college freshman children arguing with each other over fantasy football all Christmas break. Neither had any hope of changing anyones opinion, and they annoyed the heck of out of me and my wife, but it kept them entertained when they were bored.
I actually think Fernley and I had a good honest debate over it neither is completely in the right, just like neither side in the actual incident.
We kept it mostly civil, responded to each others points and didn't make any ridiculous claims or such, exactly what you should hop for in an internet debate, that neither of us was convinced is secondary to our reasoning and lines of thought now being out there for everyone to consider.
I agree with all of that, I am just an old grouch who gets annoyed easily. I thought it went on too long, and the arguments became redundant and appeared in too many places in the thread to easily avoid, when I was looking for more of celebratory feel good read.
True that, and you are right we didn't exercise great thread discipline. And Lord knows we all loved that damn win, first full game Ive seen since the UAB one, but I think as a Basketball school we have to almost learn what it fees like win and hope again.
If this what its like then damn right sure sign me up for more, unpredictable HC and all.
agree completely. no hard feelings, and I legged all the posts where you were -1 because nothing you said should have been downvoted.
double post
The sense of entitlement from the media is astounding right now.
They are not a priority in the grand scheme of things. The obligation is that the coach and players will be made available to you after games, but there is no stipulation on when that has to occur. If the coaching staff feels something is more pressing than addressing the media immediately following the game, tough shit. They should be grateful they have the jobs they do, which allow them to cover what they do while being comp'd for the expenses.
They think they're rockstars and part of the band when in reality, they're the groupies.
Mentioned above but I did want to say I appreciate and respect you for having a real honest conversation on the team and trying to maintain quality and actually address each others points, I respect and try very hard to reciprocate that.
So Thanks.
"This is just so bad for the ACC." - Guy I know from UVA.
Wahoowhat?
They're going to get theirs anyway unless they suffer a total collapse. This is probably a net positive for the ACC. It lets us continue to promote our "SEC, but for Basketball" narrative of having the deepest league.
It's a huge net positive for the ACC, just like it would be a huge net positive for UVA to become relevant in football again.
Can we just talk about basketball instead of the media?
Did you hear we beat UVA in shootyhoops?
boohoos are pretty upset about it, I heard.
I heard! Unfortunately I'm too old to stay up past about 9 PM, apparently, so I missed the whole proceeding. However, it looks like there is a new sheriff in shootyhoops town!
Are you going "slap happy?"
I'm about to leave little red handprints everywhere
Yes! What a fantastic game! Jalen was only responsible for 2 points of the total and the offense for both sides went off in the 2nd half. A lot of that comes from Bibbs, LeDay and Allen. Imagine how we're going to be WITH Clarke?
Its fun to think about how good this team can be when you consider the talent that ISN'T playing right now.
Yea Hill and Clarke out and that's a lot of our rebounding. In a perfect world we'd have better FT shooting but winning the turnover game is what I believe to be the deciding factor. That and as mentioned before NOT trying to hit a homerun but just hanging in there and not allowing the game to slip away
And we haven't even begun to see what Ty Outlaw can bring to the team (assuming he gets healthy)
I hope he get's healthy I heard it's not great. We'll see though and #sauces until we know for sure. I heard he can straight ball out. I like that we are a shorter team that's scrappy can anyone with more knowledge than me comment on whether Buzz has used true 5's often?
2 games into league play, and we've already matched league wins from last season.
Bibbs, Robinson, and LeDay are the future.. Can't wait to see what's in store for the future. Go Hokies
Don't forget Clarke
Or possibly Outlaw as well!
I think you've forgotten about certain KJ Blackshear
Dude...LOL that's great. Fun fact: I have this sticker on my back window
of my Fusion. :)
I have this sticker at the top center of my windshield. They see me coming.
I don't think I'll ever not laugh at this.
fun fact: this was created following last year's LOLUVa game.
Just stopped off at The Sabre for a moment. There are plenty of Hoo tears flowing.
I have to imagine it is rough for them. It would be 1/2 of what we would feel if they beat us in football.