Virginia Tech secondary coach Torrian Gray is expected to leave the Hokies and take a similar position at Florida. That's according to a report from Sports Illustrated's Thayer Evans.
Va. Tech secondary coach Torrian Gray expected to be new DBs coach for Florida coach Jim McElwain per source.— Thayer Evans (@ThayerEvansSI) February 3, 2016
ESPN's Andrea Adelson and the Daily Press' Norm Wood have since confirmed Evans' report, and Tech defensive backs Mook Reynolds and Adonis Alexander offered thoughts thoughts on Gray's departure. However, as of 8:00 PM Wednesday night, Virginia Tech doesn't have a statement.
Can confirm @ThayerEvansSI report that VT DB coach Torrian Gray is expected to join the Florida staff.— Andrea Adelson (@aadelsonESPN) February 3, 2016
Source with knowledge of the situation confirms secondary coach Torrian Gray leaving #Hokies to become Florida's secondary coach.— Norm Wood (@normwood) February 4, 2016
Big time move!! No doubt TGray will have Gainesville secondary rocking!! We will be straight, DBlock will always remember its roots— Mook Reynolds (@m_reyn6) February 4, 2016
Congrats coach, Thank you for everything you have done and taught me you will be missed pic.twitter.com/VmHXRpXrmg— 36clips (@Adoniskaaaaa) February 4, 2016
Under Gray, the Hokies finished in the top 15 nationally in pass efficiency defense in 8 of his 10 seasons. Tech finished in the top 15 nationally 3 times in pass defense.
Gray played at Tech from 1992-96 and spent 3 seasons in the NFL. The Dean of DBU joined Frank Beamer's staff in 2006, and five Tech players earned All-America honors (Kendall Fuller, Kyle Fuller, Jayron Hosley, Macho Harris and Brandon Flowers) during his tenure. Kam Chancellor, Kyle Fuller, Hosley and Flowers are some of the Hokies Gray helped develop into NFL talents.
Gray, a Lakeland, FL native, made $275,600 at Virginia Tech in 2015; he was set to make $260,000 in 2016.
Comments
Holy shit
Noooooooooooooooooooooooo!
Shocked.
If you want to leave for more money after taking a pay cut, do what's best for you. I get that.
Don't wait until all the recruits have signed before you announce it.
Ugh
Pretty normal, Shane did it
Nobody was going to USCe to be coached specifically by Shane.
He was responsible for a number of their recruits that class
If true, that is a really shady move by the Athletic Department. How many of the recruits were expecting Gray to be their coach this year?
I'm really disappointed.
i thought the same. Whit, Fuente, and Foster ain't no dummies! They knew what they were doing.
And we were ok waiting for Shane to close the deal on Clowney before coming, thats the business.
Wow... what an awesome day this has been!
Are you a Florida fan by chance?
Foster and Fuente have to know somebody, no worries. I'd rather him be at Florida than Miami. Overall Miami is the best team in Florida as far as overall record, then Florida, then FSU. At least he is in the SEC!
I don't understand your reasoning behind Miami being the best team in Florida. FSU and UF have done a lot better than Miami since Coker left.
Yea, UF and FSU are leagues better than Miami
Overall record vs each other Miami holds a lead over FSU and UF in both of the series. As of lately they are behind, but I admit I cannot stand any of the 3 schools now. I never minded UF until now though, Miami being in the coastal I hate the most hence my picture being the ibis being arrested and I hate FSU almost as bad because I live in VA Beach and they seem to always get the top ranked player out here.
Disappointed like most obviously, but I think Anthony Midget would be a great replacement. Former VT and NFL player, has defensive coordinator experience (at Georgia St), has P5 experience (at Penn St), and has NFL experience (currently with Houston). He's also from Florida and coached high school ball there before becoming a GA at VT so he could become lead recruiter down there hypothetically with his connections
Not. Good.
Risky move with the way the SEC turns over coaches, could be out of a job in 2 years if McElwain doesn't meet those lofty Florida standards
And he would have no trouble immediately getting another job
This is officially the worst signing day I have ever seen at Virginia Tech. WHAT THE FUCK! I'm giving TKP a break for a while shits to frustrating right now.
I gotta do the same thing. See you on the other side LT_3.
This could get awkward tomorrow......
Yea he won't be there.
Hahhahahahaahhahahaaaaa
(laugh morphs to sobbing)
I really want to know how this plays out. Someone find out after tomorrow.
Will there still be a buffet and drink tickets?
via GIPHY
Not surprised. Good luck Coach Gray and thanks for all those DB's you coached up over the years.
I wish I could say this surprised me. But really all that surprises me is that it didn't happen years ago.
That pay cut was a slap in the face.
"Hey, yeah, so I know the offense has been sucking hind-end for the past decade, and in no small part the position you coach has been one of the reasons the bowl streak is alive, but I'm going to need you to go ahead and move your cubicle to the basement, mmkay?"
Very well said and I couldn't agree more. Happy we had him this long, and surprised by the too, but was shocked by the pay cut. He helped build DBU. Maybe in time we'll see, but none of Fuente's coaches have such a lofty moniker.
The pay cut is a red herring.
If you account for bonuses Gray would've had the chance to make more than under his old contract even with a lower base salary (lower by ~$10,000).
Going to UF is a good career move for Gray. He needs to get out and learn from some new coaches and different environments if he ever wants to become a DC or continue to develop.
As someone who has been told that in lieu of a pay raise I will get a chance at a bonus that is heavily dependent on the performance of people other than myself, I stand by my assertion that the pay cut is insulting.
In my case, at least my pay wasn't cut (although, adjusting for inflation, it was). But I would have preferred a pay raise than at bonus time to be told, "You fulfilled 100% of your metric, but the division did 75% and the company did 50% so you only get 50% of your total potential bonus".
So yeah, give me the healthy base pay upon which is the starting point of all future negotiation, and if you want to continue to compete for my services (assuming demand for my services), toss in bonuses if you simply cannot afford a pay raise.
Cutting TGs pay was a godawful mistake. He was elite at what he did. DBU is what has anchored the defense for so many years.
Fuente deserves the early blame. TG should have been making $300k.
Fuck
I don't think Fuente sets salaries, I'm sure he lobbied for his guys but ultimately the salary decisions (I would assume) are up to Whit.
If this is simply a matter of pay, the blame is in Whit's hands.
Salaries were decided by Fuente and agreed to by Whit, if I remember the language of Fuente's contract correctly.
Hm.
I would imagine Whit would have final say, no?
Ultimately, yes, but it is standard to give wide latitude to the head coach in hiring and salary decisions.
When the staff was filled out, it sure seemed like practically everybody (not including old staff) received raises from what they were paid last year. I really think that Fuente could have given Bud's guys a raise while still being able to pay his guys more than what they had at Memphis. Last year, we almost lost Bud to A&M, and while we didn't end up offering as much (because we couldn't), Bud sure did appreciate the fact that we showed that we valued him by offering him as much as we could. I wish we could have done the same for Torrian and Charley. On a related note, this is still shocking considering Torrian seemed genuinely happy to remain in Blacksburg in his interview with Jon Laaser.
Nope, Fuente sets the pay for his assistants based upon a total amount of money Whit has allocated.
Well. Then I have a serious bone to pick with Fuente.
Cutting Torian Gray's salary and giving a ridiculous pay raise to someone like
ShibestGalen Scott makes zero sense to me.EDIT: Wrong coach
Shibest actually makes a lot of sense, he is one of the best special teams coaches in the country and has experience at major P5 programs. Scott though....
That's what I meant. Some coach with an S last name.
Shibest has one of the best resumes of the new assistants, and is a position coach (TE) as well as special teams coordinator. His salary is the one I was least upset about.
Not directed at you personally, just in general, but-
It wasn't a paycut technically. After Beamer left, he didn't have a job until Fuente offered him one and he accepted. Could've easily said screw that and left right there.
There's a chance this was the plan all along. Everyone has apparently forgotten about the $57k just laying around that they were all so mad about a few months ago after salaries were released.
I actually agree with the technically of this, but it's human nature to interpret it as a pay cut. Gray has been one of Tech's best position coaches and recruiters during his tenure (if not the best). He should've gotten a bump.
And they are paying a special teams coach 100k more? Who the hell did he bring in this cycle?
Happy for TG but we should have paid him more.
One of the best ST coaches in the country, but TG should have been paid closer to Shebiest
Vomit. I'm turning the Internet off for a while. See you guys when the smoke clears.
So I was just eating pizza and now I can't finish my pizza. This news has literally made me sick to my stomach. This is going to be a hard pill to swallow.
.
I don't like this idiom. Because pills are meant to make you feel better. I don't see how anything about Torrian leaving will make us better.
All I know is I am very sad right now.
Me too brother. And nothing against you at all. I just wanted to point out how silly that idiom is. But really, when you think about it, a lot of idioms are kind of nonsensical
It absolutely makes sense, some pills are hard to swallow even if they do make you feel better... after they have been choked down, chemically broken down by stomach acid and then delivered through the blood stream.
sure, the idiom itself makes sense but given the context it was in I saw an opportunity to make fun of the silliness of its application.
The big picture is that pills make you better, right? Some pills are tough to swallow, but they still make you better. In the situation I was poking fun of, TG leaving is the pill. It's a hard pill to swallow. But I was trying to point out that I don't see how TG leaving will make us better. Therefore, the pill that we're swallowing is not making us better. useless pill. Silly application of idiom.
This conversation has gone on far too long. I'm not going to continue defending my admittedly poor attempt at humor in a time where I felt humor was needed. I never knew people had such strong viewpoints on silly (or not silly) idioms.
Some pills are fairly large and difficult to swallow, that's where the idiom derives from
I think you missed the point. I'm making fun of the idea that pills are supposed to make you better and relating that to losing TG not making us better. Where the idiom comes from is irrelevant for my purposes. I was trying to throw a touch of humor into a boiling pot of bad emotions. Attempt failed, I guess.
There's no room for humor in this thread! /s
I understood your comment and you made me sharply exhale so you're good.
I'm in the same boat as you. I got home from work hoping to see some good news (or at the very least, no bad news). Not really an ideal way to unwind.
I feel about as good today as I did when we lost to Wake Forest 0-0 in OT.
If this is true...thanks for what ya did. I don't think there could have been any worse way for this to happen.
Who are some viable candidates to replace him, any ideas?
Nick Sorenson
Anthony Midget
Trooper Taylor
Trooper Taylor would be a polarizing candidate, if anything.
Could help psyops for the Battle at Bristol if nothing else.
Pierson PrioleaIu
Even lives in Radford.
That may not be a bad idea. I don't know what his coaching credentials are, but he played in the system, had a long NFL career and has that SB ring to show off when he sits in a recruits living room.
Not doubting you, but why on earth would a former NFL player who has a Super Bowl ring to show for, decide to settle down in Radford of all places?
His wife told him to.
Let us hope that in the future Fuentes offense will torch Gray's secondary in the playoffs in a few years.
Today
This is just going to further expose Bud's bear D. It got quite exposed last year, even though it worked fairly well against Ohio state. Guess we will have to see if Bud continues to be stubborn and keep going with this scheme, when TG was the guy who could coach up our Dbs to play on an island in the bear. Think we need a drastic shift from the bear and TGs loss is going to be huge. I feel like there is some friction going on with the old heads and the new heads and the choice to keep Bud (who I love as a person and a coach) may bite us in the butt and he may be out when his contract is up, setting us back once again. I hope I'm wrong and we figure something out. Poor signing day/losing TG has really got me down in the dumps
I mean I'm still excited about Fuente, but he cut pretty much everyone's pay on defense, so this isn't exactly shocking. Sucks big time.
Absolutely critical mistake and error in judgement from Fuente. Contract stated he would set salaries of assistants. Obviously had to be agreed upon by Whit, but this was Fuente's doing. He's gotta wear this one. Let one of the better ones in the country go. Can't blame him. Cut his pay 6%. Loyalty don't pay the bills.
I guess he figured there were no more Fullers to coach so he strolled out. Can any of the new guys transfer out? Talking about Ladler in particular.
I how coach Scott fits in well and can help fill some of the void left by Torian during all of those game planning sessions.
Well, those of you dissatisfied with faceguarding probably feel alright. The rest of us though, ugh.
Well if this news isn't a royal kick in the ass. I have a feeling that Tech's football program is headed for a real dive.
One of the best defensive back coaches in the country gets his pay cut by an upstart head coach who's claim to fame is winning games at Memphis. Real smart. Why not fire him outright. As for this years recruiting I expected a hit but I don't see it as a class to build a winning team on. I hope I'm wrong. I've been a Tech fan for over 50 years and this day is as bad as they get. Well not as bad as any day the Hokies lose to UVA.
He's just DB coach. It'll be ok. I'll take the HC who can bring our program to the modern game. That Memphis team last year would have wiped the floor with us
Yeah they really showed out in their bowl game. Coaches or no coaches their system was in place, they knew it well and should have been able to execute.
if we're basing are valuations of coaches on bowl games, our secondary got torched vs tulsa and therefore no one should be worried about TG leaving.
Looking at a larger sample size, Memphis won more games the past 2 years than we did, i think we'll be ok.
I just hope Fuente figures out that offense quickly. Cuz our defense isn't going to cover his offense consistently like it did for about a decade in the early 2000s
I hope they don't hire another Memphis dude. They need a Professional recruiter. Don't care what position he coaches....get someone who can sell a program.
I haven't seen wher Chip West has been picked up yet. The optimistic side of me hopes maybe the reason he hasn't landed somewhere is because we planned for this moment.
+1 I like this idea.
But he has UVA germs all over him...
You'd be surprised by all the advances in medical science these days.... ;)
Besides, if all else fails, garden hose and soap does the trick all the time! :)
That would be the ultimate recruiting specialist hire
Well this finishes up a really suckfest of a day. Paycuts were probably the reason for this. Placing this one straight on Fuente or Whit, whoever has final say on assistant contracts. Shouldn't make a great coach take a pay cut and it looks like it bit us in the ass.
Sooooo.....what now??
Find a replacement and move on?
We've been so damn spoiled as fans of this program. Let's actually get the next man up and let this staff coach a practice before we declare them DOA.
Isn't change what the majority of the fanbase wanted?
Majority wanted change on offense
That's the thing with change. There are always consequences, whether intended or not, to it. You can use it to grow or do nothing and get left behind. To think that there would be this nirvana with only the change the fans wanted was unrealistic.
Well ya know, i dont think the fans expected to lose TG, a Hokie grad, to Florida on NSD day.
Now thay i think of it.. i saw a post/comment a few days back saying a recruit was only interested in VT if Torrian Gray was there. I did not take that to mean there was a chance he was leaving.
...and the fans didn't expect for the program to under achieve for the last 3 years, but that happened too. People are acting like the world is ending because a position coach moved on. Bud found Gray why is is beyond reason that he could find the next one too?
Your logic, I like it!
We've been so damn spoiled as fans of this program
Posted something similar in the other thread about this.
I have no words. I am floored right now.
Welcome to the thread, brother.
I would like to know what happened (who knows how much information besides hearsay will become available), but until I do, I don't know how to process this.
I'm in FL with well connected Gators. The word is down here that he was not happy with CJF and the new staff.
Seems reasonable. Some professional relationships just aren't going to work. If he saw the writing on the wall and left I can't fault him for that.
OK, this seems awfully third hand, and its easy for well connected Gator fans to say this. We need more #sauces.
If true, the pay cut started that process. It had to start somewhere.
No one would enjoy starting a professional relationship this way, not I, not you...
Did he really get a pay cut tho, maybe the base pay decreased but isn't there higher bonuses for bowl games that would basically offset any decrease in salary. Not saying I'm happy about him leaving but I doubt pay had anything to do with it.
A pay cut is pay cut. You see your base salary go down from the previous year, it doesn't matter what bonuses are worked in there. Perception is you took a pay cut. Slap in the face. Pure and simple.
Consistently, national data from employment surveys show that salary is far down the list of reasons that most of leave our jobs. According to this data we don't leave jobs because of bad pay, we leave because of bad bosses and bad work environments.
In this case we as the fan base are not ever likely to know what was T. Gray's heart and mind as he and his family made this decision. But we will go on torturing ourselves with speculation and rumor as we, as French put it, attempt to "process" this loss. It's healthier for me to understand people make the best decisions they can based on the information they have in front of them. I hope we make a good hire and the next person up will continue to coach with the values and the intensity that made T. Gray such a great coach.
That national data is applicable only in a very general way, and certainly much less so in cases like this.
The pay scales in this case are much higher, and the employee in far greater demand with the opportunity for substantial bumps in pay.
If I were in TG's shoes, I probably would have left years ago, and I certainly would have been looking for an exit as soon as my pay was cut. Seeing incoming coaches from a smaller school used to making far less in the way of salary benefitting from my pay cut would have sealed the deal.
To me gross pay is the number that matters. I could give a damn what my base pay is as long at total number is better. Seriously think people are bitching just to bitch.
HAHAHAHHAHAHAHAHAHAHA
This is very surprising, but I think it's just sour grapes for so many of us atm thanks to this lack luster signing day. Huge screw up somewhere along the line to not get him paid to keep him, but his recruiting had fallen with the program, and it's not like we were fielding unassailable lock down guys at every spot the last few years (we've taken a hit no matter how you look at it). This stings a lot, but we probably needed some turnover on the defensive coaching staff, just sucks it came this way.
Let's hire a fucking real recruiter to close out these guys, and it'll be okay.
Floyd and Ladler were good pickups
when i read this, i instantly thought of Troy Pride
Holy overreactions. We'll be fine.
For sure we will move on. I think most people on here realize that but it still sucks losing a lifelong Hokie like this. Wish nothing but the best for Torrian and am still looking forward to the future of this program. Turnover was to be expected but Hokie fans just aren't accustomed to it.
No one's saying we won't be. However, losing a position coach who we have become attached to and who built DBU is a monumental loss.
This is the first real fuckup for Whit and Fuente. Should have matched anything Florida was offering. VT is his alma mater.
I am not looking forward to filling this position. This news breaking hours after NSD is really scummy, however necessary.
A guy with Grays resume should be making 300k easy. Can't blame him for leaving.
I'm much more concerned with why he wants to leave than how we replace him
ditto...I get that he was underpaid (criminally, some may say) but 6 figures in Blacksburg is more than enough. VT is his alma mater and he's not leaving for a promotion, technically. I'm not sure what to think of this but it raises some concerns IMO
Pretty sure Whit, Bud and Justin didn't just wake up stupid this morning. There is much more to this story than we will ever know. I doubt it was over the "paycut" thing. I would bet this has been in the works for a while.
I also think there was a riff between Torian and Bud. Remember Bud's comments after ECU when we was surprised about Strohman starting (and he kinda threw Torian under the bus)?
The internal dynamics prior to the coaching change leaked out publicly a few times, the ECU game being one of them, the running back by commitee comment from Beamer. Its what happens when you're stubborn amd don't want to try new things. We need to come to terms with it, and find the best replacement moving forward.
I think for a lot of Hokie fans this is even harder because we are not used to Coaches leaving that often.
Bring in Anthony Midget!
I need a beer....
I think I'm gonna need something stronger... bring on the Bourbon
Eddie Whitley is one of the first guys I thought of when news broke:
Well Fuck.
I crawl out of my work imposed hole to find an average signing day and now this....I'm crawling back into my hole now.
Mook speaks.
Who was UF's DB's coach last season? I find it hard to believe that they would have pushed someone out because of the talent and production that they had last year.
Kirk Callahan. He was there one year. Forced out two weeks ago. I can't find any rationalization from them.
Maybe we're doing a swap :D
Kinda doubt it. Saw on a Florida board that it was rumored to have something to do with him not recruiting well and on field coaching issues. McElwain wanted a more experienced guy. Probably had Torrian locked up weeks ago.
That's a good point. I think it's possible that Torrian was shopping around and this opportunity fell into his lap. Its a business move and I can understand it. Especially considering he's heading back to his home state.
lack of recruiting skills
Friend from UF said he was 1st year DB coach who inherited a good unit, but got destroyed on the recruiting trail and wasn't the best developer. Said was super young and had good connections, but just wasn't ready for P5 football yet.
A voice of reason to calm the chicken littles. Good on ya, Mook.
That's a really classy move by Mook. Makes sense considering his upbringing. Really great people with good heads on their shoulders. Proud to call that family Hokies.
Adonis weighs in as well.
The freshmen are impressive.
Sorry, but if true this is a bullshit move by Torrian. He just spent how long getting this class to sign with us with the understanding he'd be their coach, and the second pen hits paper and those kids are locked in with no ability to change their mind he bolts to another school?
If this is true any respect I had for the man is gone. And if this move was agreed upon in advance by any of the coaches who are staying here, I lost respect for them as well.
That's all of college football though. The coaches have the power, money, and freedom and the kids get free tshirts, gatorades and an education.
We have no idea the technicalities behind this; we only see what the headlines say.
And the headline makes me feel like...
There is more to this than we will probably ever know but I wonder how much of this was just Torrian wanting to be back in Florida? I know everyone wants to point the finger at someone but maybe it's no ones fault. Whit is a super smart dude and I would be surprised if this hasn't been in the works for a while now. Just curious to see what everyone else thinks.
For all we know Coach Gray wanted to leave and was only staying for Coach Beamer's sake. Maybe the $15,000 pay cut hurt so badly he just had to go ... or maybe it had nothing to do with it. Maybe they asked him how he felt about the pay and he said "don't worry about it, I'm leaving soon anyway."
I feel like that is just as feasible as any other eventuality mentioned in this thread.
I legitimately want Babcock and Fuente to address what has happened and how it occurred. It is unheard of that a Coach would leave after young high school men had signed to play for them presumably for the next 3-5 years. They MUST make it clear that all members of the Tech Football team are in great hands, and that they will do their BEST, as is their duty, to find a coach that can get the best out of them as a player and more importantly, as a person.
Whit, we need you to make some magic happen and find us a guy that a) can recruit b) is down-to-earth just as TG was 3) has a proven track record of on-field success and d) has the backs 100% of every player on the team, specifically the DBs that signed today.
Not really it actually has happened quite often. AnOSU had a big issue with it last year.
This is sarcasm right? It happens all the time
I personally had never heard of a coach leaving on signing day, but I've only really paid close attention to our program.
Shane Beamer did...
I'd wager it happens at around 5 P5 programs every year.
Edit: I'm removing my comment as the first part of it came off kind of dickish. Sorry about that. It's just been a bad 24 hours in Hokieville and I'm pretty frustrated, but that doesn't give me a reason to be snippy here on the boards. We're all Hokies, after all.
I saw a Haiku on the Pie post and thought I'd try my hand at one here:
Fifty Shades of Torrian Gray
All of them going away
Gives me all the sads
On a serious note I don't post here much, but I would just like to say that no matter how much this sucks I still think theres a lot of positive energy in the program. So let's hope this is a one step backwards two steps forward type deal.
I see what you're going for but that's definitely not a haiku
I prob slept through that English class, but anyway figured I would try to vent frustrations creatively. I vow to learn to properly haiku this year, thanks for the heads up.
Just remember "5-7-5" and you'll be good.
So is 7-5-7 a Hok-u?
"That's gold, Jerry. GOLD!"
We are approaching levels where I'm about to start advocating for a temporary suspension of this threads comments. Does this news suck incredibly hard? Yes. Is this all Fuente's fault and we are heading towards an unmitigated disaster? No.
Come on y'all.
Bud's system makes the corners. We will be fine. The guy is a freaking head case from my experience with him.
In what ways? If you wouldn't mind sharing...
I have heard others say this as well. Would love to know why just out of curiosity.
He is very very immature. He was there my last year or two working for the team. He would scream like he was a playing and it was so over the fucking top. All the vet coaches came down from the press box after a game and were complaining about how he was crying after a Macho made an interception. He was just not a mature person when he first started coaching at VT and I could never see him being a D-Coordinator.
Interesting perspective. 99% of TKPers had Torrian tagged as our next DC.
I worked for the football team for 5 years during my time as an undergrad and a grad student. I really liked TGray and he was always very personable when I talked and interacted with him. I have a small anecdote of my own to share about an experience I had with him and it is just hilarious/strange.
I played 3 summers worth of Blacksburg Town League Softball with TGray as my teammate, the dude was a combination of nuts and crazy that I haven't really met before. One Tuesday in June we were scheduled to play a game at about 6:30 pm, the forecast was calling for crazy early evening thunderstorms, the likes of which you could see rolling in from miles and miles away. But of course they couldn't cancel the game until it actually started raining and lightning. So at about 6:20 I roll up to the field, it is most definitely now lightning and the wind is picking up considerably, as I park I notice a man standing behind the backstop swinging a golf club....it was TGray. I hop outta the car and yell down to him, "Hey you do realize there are lightning strikes occurring right now?". To which, without hesitation TGray respopnds, "Yeah Mike I know, but the grip is made of rubber."
I quickly hurried back to my car and about 2 minutes later it began pouring buckets and he ran and got back in his car and we all left. To this day I am unsure if he was serious about the grip keeping him safe while swinging a lightning rod around or if he is nuts and just didn't care. I believe it was a mixture of both.
The guy was uber competitive and half crazy on the softball field as well. He wanted to play 3rd base, he would wear a mouth piece and cheat up line on every batter, he literally didn't give a shit if he got a ball hit at him at 1000 mph and would knock the ball down by any means necessary. I really think that kind of intensity is what made him a good football player and probably an even better coach. I always liked TGray and I'm sad he is leaving the VT program. He might have been crazy or immature, but whatever he was or whatever he did while in Blacksburg, the dude went full throttle, and I liked that about him.
Any-who, man I miss Blacksburg summers...
I love these stories. From the sidelines and at home, Gray always to me seemed mellow, especially compared to Foster. Apparently TV can be diceiving.
I have a few more TGray stories, and funny enough some Anthony Midget stories too, he was a grad assistant for a few years at Tech...Let me put it this way, playing basketball with a bunch of ex football players is NOT that fun sometimes. Shit got heated from time to time and it is really hard to calm down a bunch of dudes who forgot they aren't wearing pads and a helmet anymore. TGray was super intense and Midget was a professional talker. While he was very annoying to play basketball against, I could actually see Midget being great in a living room with 18 yr old kids and their parents.
Mike it's your boy SF. I always laugh when I think back on us ballin in Cassell with TGray and Midget and how everytime either of them missed a shot, well after the shot had bricked off the rim, we'd get a "stay here man" "stay here man" calling a phantom foul everytime either of them missed a shot. It was almost to a t everytime they would miss they would call a foul. Got really old quick playing basketball with them two because of it.
Anyways, just an example of the stubbornness/hard headedness/ego/ridiculous each of them possessed, especially TGray. I could see how if he felt he was wronged somehow he would call a "stay here man" and put it to Fuente and whit by accepting the job at Florida.
Regardless TGray was a good dude and was always great to me and the people he knew. I wish him well at Florida and certainly hope we can keep the DBU enact for years to come
Duuuuuude, S. F. what's good!! Love the name by the way. I'll never forget TGray doing curls with his sleeves rolled up staring at himself in the mirror. Or the time we were on the completely silent team plane ride home from getting whipped by LSU and saying "damn this plane was made for midgets" as my knees jabbed into the seat in front of me, not realizing Anthony Midget was sitting in front of me, and him turning around giving me the "I will hurt you badly with my fists" look. Hope all is well Barry Bin Laden. Hit me up!
Or TGray always wearing wind pants to play basketball and softball. No matter how hot it was. Dude was a different cat. And boy did Midget like to talk shit. He certainly didn't appreciate it when you talked shit back to him or drain 3's on him - my bad midget. Haha those lunch basketball games were intense
So we all worked together on the team around the same time haha
Haha were you part of the basketball crew with us?
Doesn't sound like I was part of yours. I played a few times in old shitty gyms under Cassell with a mixture of Athletes from the school. Never played with TG or Midgett. But I do know MR and I probably know you as well. Graduated in '07 worked for the football team from 03 to 07
Foster is different. People are drawn to his intensity and he makes every player that plays for him wants to do better because he is so passionate about the defense, and his players. All his players respect him and he commands them.
TG is on a different level. He had passion, but it was the kind that I don't think would command the attention of the entire room. It would get their attention, but I can see it working on a smaller level, but not when you are in control of 22 to 30 specific players.
Not disagreeing with you necessarily, just wanted to share a weird story about TGray. I think we will be ok without him, but I personally am sad about losing a coach that produced for us on the field as a player and coach at Tech. I think because he was a real Hokie through and through, it just hurts more maybe. It's the realization for a lot of us that this is a business first and foremost and that just because you devoted your college years and your early coaching career to the same university, that at the end of the day it doesn't really mean much when making a job decision. I can only speak for myself, but my fandom for VT Football tends to cloud my perception of reality, and when I finally get nut punched in order to wake up and see that reality, it kind of sucks, bad.
Really? Corner seems to be the only position we consistently have success putting players in the NFL.
Yes the system is based off of confusing offenses and predicting where the ball goes based off of pressure. We play a ton of inverted cover 2 which we tend to mask as Cover 2 before the presnap of the ball.
We blitz a bunch and it forces bad throws.
People tend to forget that we were still a CB factory before he TG was a coach.
Yea Ward was pretty successful to if memory serves
good point - this thread is a repeat from TSL when whammy ward left.
^This, this a thousand times this
Our defense puts pressure on our DBs to be very good. In the same way Penn State's defense was always predicated on making the linebackers make plays, ours emphasizes defensive backs. If we get good talent in the program, our secondary will continue to produce top players.
Thank you for this, too. TG was produced by DBU, not the architect of it.
If anyone isn't familiar with the concept of institutional memory/knowledge, take a look. I think it will apply to our secondary.
All this being said, looks like the Curse of the DBU Shirts has run its full course...
Maybe they knew he was going to be leaving and gave the paycut for future leveraging.
"Well the last guy made 260,000..."
I hope all of the posters here calling for Whit and Fuente to be canned realize that this day has been coming and building for many years. The subpar recruiting results and general stagnant nature of the Program have been built up thru years of complacency and neglect of certain aspects of the Program. We're talking 7-10 years--well before WB and JF were even in the picture. Of the people that are to blame, Fuente and Whit probably bear the least.
While I tend to agree that cutting Gray's salary even slightly probably wasn't a wise move, I think there is more going on here than we know (and possibly more than we will ever know). The timing of this clearly says that this was not a spur of the moment decision. Going back to the Miami game I believe when Foster essentially said he didn't expect Stroman to play; then he started and performed poorly. Apparently this decision was made by TG without even a notice to BF--that is not appropriate and suggests discord between the two. Also, TG is usually one of our best recruiters (and the only one on D-side that has been consistently pulling his weight) and his effort and results this year did not seem the same.
Then there's the issue with Galen Scott, who was brought in, placed on the Defensive Staff without a real position to coach. All these things suggest to me that it was known for some time that TG was unhappy and/or actively searching for other jobs.
Yeah, that kinda took me by surprise. Didn't take long for the honeymoon to end, I guess, but that kind of reaction to a position coach leaving seems a little over the top. We don't know why Gray left or whether Fuente, Whit, or the pay cut had anything to do with it, and it remains to be seen if this will negatively impact the program in any way. If we're ready to turn against the HC and AD based solely on that, I think we should be ashamed of ourselves.
Adversity, or in this case perceived adversity, can engender strong emotions. How you express those emotions says a lot about you. Children respond to adversity with rage, adults respond to adversity with reason. Let's be adults.
Basketball punched me in the face, then the recruiting class socked me in the gut, this one definitely hit me below the belt. What a shitty 24 hours.
I would be Uber pissed if I was a commit to a secondary position at Tech right now. Dirty dirty move by this new staff. I don't care if it's the norm, not right to treat people that way. I am not proud of my university right now and that's the worst feeling of all.
I still just question if they knew he was leaving. Let's let the smoke clear before we call out the staff for their behavior.
The optics will define the behavior in the public space. That you can never change, regardless of what the reality is. I agree with ltrepeter. The optics of this are horrible for VT. Whit has to address that now. There are a couple of 2016 recruits that feel screwed/used and we just lost some credibility with the 2017 recruiting class.
This puts VT athletics in damage control - no matter how you look at it.
Fuente better sign the 2nd best DB coach in the nation - the best one just flew the coop.
Reading the other threads on here, especially the ones stating we were building relationships with HS coaches, I wonder how this announcement affects those relationships. I mean if I was a HS coach and helped steer one of my guys over to VT because he would be learning from Gray, I would feel kind of used.
I agree the optics are bad, but in reality there are many, many, many different ways this could have gone down where all the choices were bad. What if they just closed the deal three days ago? Should they all come out the day before NSD and announce he was leaving, who would that have been fair to? T. Gray may not have submitted his resignation until yesterday? UF may have wanted the deal unofficial until after NSD? Too many unknowns to pass judgement in my opinion.
Agreed. Given all the information I have I don't believe the Staff could have done anything about this. Fuente said today that they were still talking with Gray and the deal wasn't done with Florida. I really think that they may have known it was possible but what exactly were they supposed to do. Hello potential recruit, there is a possibility our DB coach is leaving but we really have no idea and he is making up his mind. This is on Gray not the staff. And that's assuming he even told the staff anything before the news came out.
The hoops game last night made me want to drink a carbomb from the Liverkill. Signing day made me feel like I need a Rail. Now I feel like I need to wake up in Radford three days from now without any memory of the last 24 hours.
......knowing you have a trip to the doctors office in your future for some blood tests and possibly some cures....
Woof. Radford. Dark days.
ugh, the basketball game.
First sporting event I have watched with my girlfriend who is a Cuse grad. Told her we were allowed to talk smack, but as the last 4 minutes faded away, I really regretted that decision.
Took a nice back rub to get over it.
I could cuss George Patton under a table right now. This appears to be the first screw up from Whit and JF, I pray there aren't any more.
Wish TG the best and hope he's back on our sidelines one day.
very disappointed in:
1) The timing of this release on National Signing Day
2) That he was even given a pay cut to start with.
3) That he felt the need to take a lateral move away from his alma mater.
Positive:
1) Bud found and developed Torrain.
2) Vincent Fuller, Anthony Midget, Eddie Whitely are all potential replacements.
Vinny Fuller did not go to
ColumbiaFordham Law School to coach football. There is literally 0% chance either him or Whitley get the job and if they did, the sky is falling.*Fordham Law School
As a lawyer, I'd rather be a DB Coach at Tech than become a lawyer. If Vinny doesn't think so now, he'll realize soon enough.
Yes, yes, we can keep the FUller count of we bring Vincent back!
I assume you mean lateral move by job title. They are worlds ahead of us right now in relevancy and recruiting in particular. Nothing lateral about VT to UF currently.
Correct. DB Coach to DB Coach, unless they are grooming him for a 1 - 2 year away bump to DC.
This day has sucked. Poor recruiting class, average signing day and this. Terrible timing.
Torrian leaving on NSD after kids signed looks really bad... not sure what to say here. Geez.. what a bait and switch.
One thing nagging about Torrian and all of Franks assistants..
1) Torrian appears to lack any ambition. He has the skills, record etc to be a DC but yet he just took a "rental" DB position at UF where we dont know if McElwain has legs long term. SEC hires folks w 50% less resume than he has for DC.. happens all the time.
2) Many of Frank's folks seem to have no ambition whatsoever
No different than what we had Shane do, such is the business.
I very much disagree with this.
Dabo Swinney was a WR coach for 12 years, do you think he lacks ambition?
People say this all the time, but I'm far from convinced of that he has the skills to be a DC. I'm far more confident that Bud could be a good head coach than I am that Torrian could be a good DC. He coaches the position well, recruits well, but can he run a system? Can he put all the pieces of the puzzle together? What makes you think he can do this?
Well, McElwain has coached and SEC team to 10 wins in his first season. Fuente has not yet recorded one win as a head coach of P5 team. Not sure why you feel that Fuente's job is more secure than McElwain.
Jeremy Pruitt, Geoff Collins, Will Muschamp, Bob Shoop, even Dave Wommack all had better resumes than Gray at the time they were hired.
I am not sure if this is an exact correlation, but did we have a similar meltdown when Moorehead left and following his deparure we had a WR have one of the best individual seasons in VT history?
Its never good to lose a known quantity, but after the past few seasons, maybe we should take the glass half full view on these changes and lets see what shakes out.
Honestly with a new HC in place I think we should be taking the glass half full approach with all the happenings in the program. Give them a chance and then make judgements off of performance on and off the field within an entire offseason and on the field results.
Agree. As another poster stated above--we had a history of producing good CB before TG. That is not to discount what he did, but I don't think this is a sky-is-falling situation. My bigger concern is not DB development but in recruiting where Gray was essentially the only D-staffer who was consistently an effective recruiter (especially with more highly-rated guys).
Also, I suspect (without any insider knowledge) that there was some distance and disagreement with BF over the current scheme and personnel. I don't think this was purely a money play (though it probably didn't hurt).
What is troubling is the timing of the announcement. It reflects poorly on us and on TG as well. It wasn't well handled on either side and makes it look like recruits were deliberately misled.
I don't mind that he left. Florida is a good opportunity and he just got a pay cut so it makes sense. Best of luck in the future. I loathe the timing, announcing while the ink on LOIs is still wet and kids are locked in. If I was a recruit, especially one in the secondary, I'd be furious right now.
Your version of a glass half full:
My version of a glass half full:
Messaged a UF grad & bigtime football fan I used to work with about this and got back "Lol I didn't even know we hired him".
Ugh.
Florida fans are the worst.
I don't mind them really. He just hadn't heard the news yet. Came back later and said he loved the hire and can't wait to see how well he recruits south Florida.
I was sentenced to 4 years in Florida. My experience was that most UF fans were over the top jerks about the Gators and had no clue about their team past the W-L record and who the head coach is. So when you said your friend didn't know about Torrian it met my expectations of a typical Gator fan.
Sounds like a lot of LOLUVA fans that I know. Must be the orange and blue causing idiotfanitosis. I think a congressional hearing to quarantine and possibly ban said institutions may be in order.
I was in a meeting at work when UF friend texted me saying "thanks for the DB Coach!" I was so shocked I didn't say anything. Boss asked me a direct question, to which I responded "Our DB coach just left for Florida." Boss told me to call him when I had real problems.
not going to air dirty laundry however being from FL and having a few connections down here if what i'm hearing is true and I doubt I will ever find out VT played Gray about as dirty as they could... even after the pay cut.
However.. time to move on and hope that we can find a new db coach with experience and a fiery attitude for sure.
This is what I didn't want to hear.
Without airing the potential actions could you at least narrow down whom? Fuente, Whit, Bud?
Whit & Fuente mainly
paycut was an issue while new boys got PAID for 1 good year at memphis-> disrespected basically
others interested and now you're willing to pay up-> more disrespect
Not doubting your sources but logic would tell me that if your ties are from FL it seems possible they are getting their info from TG which is only one side of the story. I imagine there is more to it that that.
agreed 100% ... always is two sides and you rarely hear the other side which in this case is VT's.
In my experience there's usually three sides. His, Theirs, & the Truth, which tends to be somewhere inbetween.
Im not discrediting your sources. Maybe Gray felt slighted. But people look at the $10k and think its a big number but to him. It was a 5% decrease from his previous salary. Imagine he made 100 grand and got the same percentage decrease. Now hes paid 95k. Nobody would even bats an eye. I really can't see a 5% decrease in pay causing a substantial rif.
And the raise for the other coach thing. They didn't work together. It's not like they were at the same place. It's like a local business getting bought out and the owner put in a management position where he takes his own team and merges it with the current team. I just can't see someone feeling like the new team got raises - there resources are substantially greater. Everyone was rehired and put on a level playing field.
I mean that very well could be the case. But I feel like people see numbers and they start telling a story. Again I'm not saying they couldn't have first hand knowledge and that's what's coming up. But for me, I have a hard time grasping that if I were to out it into a situation I could relate to.
It just doesn't add up.
Edit: grammar is impossible from an iPhone. 2. Something clearly motivated him to move elsewhere. I'm hoping it's amiacable and we can hire someone who's going to crush itand move on.
Is there more dirty stuff you're not saying? The paycut is just run of the mill resetting under a new regime. I can understand TG leaving if he feels he's undervalued, but how is this being played dirty?
yeah more than just the pay cut, I have tons of respect for TG + VT and it wouldn't be my place to share what could be false information on a message board.
ruh roh, thats not good.....
I think I'm ready to move on from this last 24 hours. Whit has been solid on all of his hires so far so I have faith in him to do it again.
Hopefully the next DB coach will have some relationships already formed and we start getting some talent from a new area. I look at it as an opportunity to breath some new life on the defensive staff and open the door to some new recruitment areas.
Sure are a lot of assertions, accusations and animosities here off a headline. We do not know squat about it and probably diddely as well!!! Until we do, get out the chill pills....
The reality is that he will be getting a raise ($EC) that is well beyond what we could have paid him so the fact that we slightly cut his pay is not a big deal. Maybe he just didn't gel with some of the new staff as well as the old staff and decided to skip town. Either way, position coaches are replaceable and I have faith that Fuente and Foster have some good replacements in mind. He is very good at his job and I wish him the best at Florida.
Just maybe, TG wanted to move to a position where he had more upward mobility. He was going to be stuck under Foster, like Foster was stuck under Beamer (now Fuente), for the foreseeable future. If he ever wants a shot to move up, leaving VT was in his best interest. You never know, maybe the coaching change and paycut just helped him realize that decision. At the end of the day, he's been a position coach for a little while, and the only way to move up and build his resume (SEC) was to leave.
We praise other coaches for building their coaching tree and then have a panic attach when one of ours branches out.
I don't think any of us would disagree that he deserves the opportunity to advance his career, but the way this was announced and handled was pretty damn poor. I think that's where most of the anger comes from.
And again, while it is just smoke, the timing itself leads one to believe there is more to this than simple career advancement. If TG wanted to look for SEC jobs, why sign back with VT? He was essentially a free agent after Beamer left. It just doesnt make sense unless there was some other factor in play.
I do believe the timing of this type of announcement from position coaches is fairly common. If he didn't already have a job offer in place right after Beamer left, the smart thing for him to do was sign back on until we had a better move in place. If you think about all this as a career and not coaching, none of it strikes me as odd.
You always make safe moves once you know you have a landing spot, and you never screw your past employer (if you can avoid it) because you never know what will happen in the future.
The timing with signing day sucks, but the student athletes are coming to VT to get an education, be a part of the university and football team, and play for the Hokies. Given Mook's text, I think we read way more into the impact of the timing than they do.
Once the dust cloud settles I think more people will see it this way. It's hard for us Hokies to lose one of our own because it just never happens and now it's happening a lot. All will work out.
In my gut I feel as though Fuente and Whit may have known this was coming and have set in motion a plan for the replacement soon. Whit has already proved himself several times.
A new name for your consideration:
Seeing a few people mentioning Johnson, but take that for what it's worth - Twitter discussion.
Forget Loren Johnson. Let's just hire Dwight to Coach dbs.
Drawing from his OL experience, I bet he could teach our DBs to jam at the line real good...
This was the guy I was thinking of. I'm just not confident that Fuente will bring former Hokies in as coaches.
Hey, that would be cool! He was my weightlifting coach @ Stonewall!
What a shitty day
Its officially a sad day!!! As you all know, I have Torrian Gray listed as my favorite Hokie and for good reason. Before his junior year at VT he was an orientation counselor where I had a chance to meet him just prior to 1995. He was already a great leader then and I know he will be a D-Coordinator one day and then head coach.
I did see Dwight Vick's twitter urging on to bring in Loren johnson and I agree. He does have a good thing going as a head football coach in high school but I have memories of DBU back then when he would break up passes and make cat-like interceptions. He's been coaching since 2008 and knows the VA area, is from Florida and played under Foster. I hope we get him and I also heard Anthony Midget mentioned. Hope we get one of those guys.
Can we please move on from the Jim Weaver hiring out of his personal rolodex? I am sure Midget and Johnson are swell guys but please. We don't have to hire a former VT DB. That is the tired way of working we are trying to move past. We can actually look around the whole country and hire the best recruiter and coach. He doesn't have to have played with TG. Time to move forward - not operate the same way we have the past 30 years.
The argument for Johnson is a pretty good one, though. It's not just because he's a former VT DB. That's nice, but he's a championship high school head coach, knows the state (NoVA and Richmond) and is from Miami for recruiting purposes. He has a good resume.
Midget has been a coach pretty much ever since he stopped playing. He's coaching the secondary at Houston right now. That would be the TEXANS.
I'd say Florida high school coaching experience, Penn State coaching experience, and NFL coaching experience make for a pretty descent resume. (Also, BONUS... He's a swell guy.)
Double bonus: his last name is Midget for Christ's sake. Who doesn't want that?
YOU HAVE GOT TO BE FIST FUCKIN ME...it's like when my parents told me Santa wasn't real.
Man...so we just trust in Whit to hit another home run?
Near impossible situation to hit a home unless Whit brings in Charles Woodson or just something absolutely ridiculous like that
"Near" impossible? So you're saying there's a chance....
No kidding, where's the spoiler alert, man? What if there are little kids reading this thread???
Hopefully there are no little kids reading this thread, since in addition to the Santa thing, their parents will now have to explain what "fist fucking" is. Just don't Google image search that...
This is the reason I was really leery of the combined staffs. Should have blown up the whole thing with Fuente bringing all his own guys. Blending the new with the old seemed a recipe for disaster. Would not surprise me to see foster gone within a year.
I agree. I have had a gut feeling for a while that we won't see Bud remain the DC long term. I really started feeling this after Galen Scott was brought in and there were so many conflicting reports about his role on the D staff, etc. It just seems he is set up by CJF to be the longer term DC.
That's a great point... Scott is likely the on-staff successor in waiting who can step in and seamlessly take over as DC when Foster leaves, Fuente believing that occurs sooner than later.
Everybody keeps saying that Bud will leave in a few years, and while that may end up being true, where is that coming from? Fuente has said that keeping Bud was basically a requirement for him to take the job.
CJF explained that he didn't want to have to rebuild a top defense. This (to me) leaves room for another smooth transition at DC in a few years once his offense is established and clicking, and Bud can finally move up (or over or whatever he wants to do). Coach Fuente wanting Bud may be one of the few reasons he is still here; could be many more for him to leave (money, career, finish off the overhaul so the next generation can get started, how long can he keep his assistants or get along with the new staff, etc.).
Just the staff dynamics... 50+ year old established, high level in-house coach is passed over for a 39 years old outsider. Been there, done that in the workplace. Its a real challenge for the older employee.
I think Bud stayed out of loyalty to VT to help with the transition with the thought that he will leave within two years for his own gig when the right opportunity opens.
I'm not sure he ever leaves- he may retire sooner than not, but doubt he leaves. VT was his only shot at a HC gig that he would take (he's pretty much said he needs a P5 school job- he isn't getting one of those ). So the question is do you uproot yourself at his point in life for the same job at another school. At his age, he is not like TG or Shane where they have a chance to go somewhere with the idea of making another move later. He knew early enough that Frank was retiring, I'm sure his agent put some feelers out about HC and DC jobs that would presumably be available (especially if Whit told him early he wasn't in the running) so I'm sure he had an idea of what he could do outside of VT and decided to stay. I think he realized he's a DC for life and if that's the case, it probably doesn't make sense to move from VT.
People need to quit fu[k*ng crying and moaning. How have any other teams managed to field a good secondary without Torrian on their sideline??????? Oh, right, plenty of guys out there can coach it just as well.
And how many of those guys are available and in our price range at this point in the year? Not friggin many.
FWIW this is the last year I believe of SG's payouts this Spring on the anniversary, and I believe JJ's are minimal compared to them. If the right guy was out there for 300k it is not off the table I think to go get them.
Ah, but my argument was essentially threefold. The money isn't even the biggest factor. We have $310,000 available even before we stop paying basketball coaches, but the pickings are pretty slim when it comes to Torrian-caliber coaches that would be available to us. West is probably our best bet in that category, but I'd like to see us at least try and lure Midget or Sorenson from the NFL ranks. Can't find salary info for either of them, but being only assistant position coaches, I'd imagine 250-300k would be enough to make it financially worthwhile, but some guys do prefer coaching pros vice college. Plus both would be giant question marks in the recruiting department. I just thought we were done with the coach shuffling for a while. Now I'll have to be frantically checking for updates and rumors again.
The position pays $260k, that has been established and that will be the salary for this position.
That may be the baseline, but it may not be enough. Guarantee there is flexibility there. If we get Loren Johnson, he will NOT make 260k, he'll be paid much less. If we try and get a proven guy or one of our NFL options, we're going to be forced to adjust pay based on the market, which likely means more than 260k.
And that will look EVEN WORSE. We set up the initial decision at these salaries that started the dynamic that pushes one of the best DB coaches in the nation out and then get a replacement DB coach at a higher base salary than the other equivalent assistants on the staff? That would make the optics even worse. Then on the face it appears that Fuente forced him out and the WTF dynamic in the staff from a press and public perception is way worse. You'll have the media sharks circling asking the wrong questions. Again, Not Good, Bob.
$260k is the standard for this hire.
Yeah, I see your point, but we're kind of in a bad spot and may not have much option other than to open the pocketbooks a little bit. It would definitely have to be fully discussed by the coaches on staff to set them at ease with it, and it might look bad on its face, but I think it could be done right if it had to be. I think the most critical people of such a move would be the same ones who rant about the "pay cuts," largely on message boards vice traditional media. In that sense, it's only as big an issue as we make it out to be.
I hear you. But its not real hard for media guys to think that way. If journalists are worth their salary, they already think in a speculative sort of way to dig out stories - its in their DNA.
The timing of this really sucks. People would have been upset if he left right after the Fuente hire, but I think they would have handled it. The timing, being when it was , just leaves a sour taste.
Warning! Excessive Anger Rant mode triggered and activated: Well FUCK DAMMIT! I LEAVE FOR ONE FUCKIN WEEK (IN FL IRONICALLY) AND I GOTTA COME BACK TO THIS FUCKIN SHIT!?!? FUCK DAMMIT!!! AND FUCK ANY PERSON THAT CONTRIBUTED TO THIS! PLEASE BRING MIDGET, VINNY FULLER OR THAT LOREN JOHNSON DUDE!!!
But really. I always love your rants. Kudos
I was kinda surprised that TG wasn't on the VT NSD16 show this morning. Now i know why.
[Searches thread for comments by jreynolds, finds none]
I think it's dirty that he left on signing day right after bringing in guys who presumably were going to play for him. Doesn't sit well with me at all. More thoughts later I'm sure.
That's my sentiment. If pisses me off more when it happened. There's a lot of clean up on that - reassure 2017 kids it won't happen again. If he leaves a month ago. I'd be upset but I'd be more inclined to be excited about who's stepping up next.
I just want an answer. Did I do something wrong? We can fix this. It's not over. Please, I need you. FINE. GO. Nobody really liked you anyway. Maybe now well have a coach who can properly talk to someone's MOM! (Walk out. Shut the door) (whimper behind said door)
There will never, ever, EVER be that kind of reassurance, because this could happen literally any year.
You commit to the program, not the coach.
Are we still going to be DBU without CTG? You bet your ass we are, because we were churning out quality DBs prior to Gray's hire. Gray's vacant position is one of the most desirable in P5 football right now. Coach under a living legend of a DC at a program that just made the hottest coaching hire in the NCAA. And we have the AD the go out and get a grand slam candidate to fill the position.
Not that we won't lose coaches. But that we won't get you to sign a Letter of Intent and then have the position coach who you were close with sneak out the back door before the ink dries. That will take some damage control from the parents of future classes I'm sure.
We all must be careful what we wish for. This echo has been ringing in my ears ever since the mediocre seasons we have had the past few years. Some of us were ready to run Frank out on a rail. Be careful what you wish for. Let's please come together. We could have emptied the coaching cabinets all together. I believe with my heart we will be ok. Let's funnel our emotions to Saturday's in the fall. Go Hokies!!!
I agree with this, but Saturday's in the fall are still a long way away from Thursdays in February. We're gonna speculate and gnash our teeth, it's what fans do. That said, when we go back to war in the fall, we'll be going with the army we have, not the army we wish we have, so let's just hope the coaching staff will settle down and gel by then. We still have a bevy of good coaches and some promising young players.
I keep reading about the pay cut and Torrian making more in the SEC. I don't think it was the fact that his base salary was cut or the fact that he would make more in the SEC. I don't get the impression that Terrain's decisions were ever driven by money. I'd guess that it wasn't loosing $15k/year, but what the cut in salary implied. His body of work, his resume, and the new staff felt that he was previously overpaid.
But that's it. The pay cut creates that dynamic. So it is what matters.
This is just "expected" which isn't confirmed. But it probably is and I'm just picking at fluff.
Since Florida fired their DB coach in 1/15/16 my guess is that TG agreed to the new job around 1/14/16.
So - sorry if this was asked in another thread - any recruiting buffs know exactly who TG recruited for 2016, and how many of them weren't early enrollees?
http://247sports.com/Coach/Torrian-Gray-447
There are 5 listed there, not sure if that's comprehensive or if I'm just not finding the full list otherwise. Out of Floyd, Belmar, Rodgers, Ladler, and Dean, only Ladler was an early enrollee and AFAIK Dean did not sign an NLI (preferred walk-on?) so he's not bound at this point.
So, what are the thoughts re: what Fuente should do?
Really to be upfront and honest, he should probably speak to each of the kids TG recruited, ask them to wait until he hires a new DB coach and then give the kid the option of being released from his LOI. I think that would be the honorable thing to do.
It sucks for Ladler... he had a BIG TIME offer list and is already enrolled. In his Hokie Sports interview yestereday he mentioned TG laying out the players he put in the pro's as a big reason he signed with us.
Yeah, I think he's got to have a sit-down with all of those kids. I really do. And if the kid wants to leave, he should honor it. But the reality is that most programs are full now because signing day is over. And to transfer after the year means sitting out another year. What Fuente needs to do is say, "I'm going to hire the best damn DB coach I can, and Bud is still in control of the defensive scheme. That scheme will (probably) always require outstanding DB play and you figure into that prominently." Emphasize the fact that the player committed to the school, no matter how disappointed he is on an individual level. He's going to get a great education at VT and he will get a chance to play college ball at a very high level, regardless of who his position coach is. But overall, I expect Fuente to be honest and honorable through all of it.
I wonder if he gave Ladler a heads up, since he was already invested. The other guys certainly seemed surprised on Twitter.
Florida is a better job, with better recruits, and more time in the national spotlight. I think it was the right move for his career. Plus, he gets back to his home state.
Coaches leave and shuffle around in college. It happens. I'm saddened to lose a fine coach, but let's relax. We'll be okay
Coach Fuente, I still have high hopes for what you are bringing to VT and have not lost faith, however, on this one...
Some seriously hot takes in this thread.
Update:
I'm not sure what to believe now after numerous sources confirmed the move.
Possible counter offer in the works?
Whaaat! After the great meltdown we've been having.
If they got Torrian to change his mind, it'd be a power move, but my hunch without hearing the original quote is it's damage control / managing the media.
Not to nitpick but all the reports say that he is "expected" to be Florida's DB coach. I haven't seen anyone actually report that it's a done deal.
Crazy theory time. Put on your tinfoil hats, boys and girls:
What if the paycut was all an elaborate scheme by Coach Fu to get TG a raise? The rationale for the paycut, as I understand it, was to put all the position coaches on equal footing with respect to compensation. Given the total budget Whit gave him, this meant a decrease for TG, which predictably, attracted the vultures in the SEC, thinking they could swoop in and poach a great position coach like Torrian. Now we've established a fair market value for his services and can justify giving him the pay raise that so many of us think he deserves. Torrian gets paid, and the new guys don't feel like they're getting disrespected.
EDIT: Darn, I hadn't scrolled down and seen the comment about TG updating his Twitter bio. So much for that one. Good luck Coach! We'll miss you.
This makes me feel highly uncomfortable.
Aw, c'mon Baller. Go on up and geever uh beeg wet keeiss. LMAO!
It does seem shady, leaving the day after signing day and all. But, there are ALWAYS at least two sides to every story, and I'm only privy to, well, actually I'm not privy to any of them. I just pick up what Joe puts down.
This was going to happen sooner or later. I'm not even mad, bro. DBlock is still DBlock. They're still gonna wreck shit up this year. We just need a new warden.
I have very little sympathy for the recruits. They are committing to a school, not a coach and certainly not a position coach.
At VT, we have been in a bubble for many years about how frequently assistant coaches move around, often just after NSD. We aren't mistreating these kids by requiring/asking our assistant coaches to stay on through NSD to complete a recruiting class....a major task in the job we pay them to do.
We will see where we end up, but when Whammy Ward left, it was shocking as well. Assistant coaches change, thats what they do. Time for VT fans to live in that reality. The stagnation of our previous staff was in large part due to assistants not moving on frequently enough.
I agree and disagree with this. College players spend a ridiculous about of time with their position coach. Usually they are the ones who built the relationship for the player to go there. If you were interviewing for a job and your would be new manager was a great person and supervisor but then left shortly after you accepted it and you were left with an ass of a manager, many people would be putting resumes back out there. These are 18 year old kids who are looking up to their position coaches and the rest of the staff as mentors and father figures away from home. For new recruits who signed yesterday and now find out their relationship they built is now meaningless, that is a big concern for many and rightfully so. They are locked in to play for someone they haven't even met now.
While I agree with most of your post, I do have sympathy for the recruits who just made the biggest decision of their lives thus far and a big piece of what that decision was based on is now gone.
Solid viewpoint. I have very little sympathy for them, but I do have some for just what you mentioned. Your comparison is valid, they are employees and this is their supervisor. But, like us normal employees, if our supervisor changes, hopefully you signed on for the company, the work, the benefits, the commute, the food, the swag, etc.
As an employee, you can also benefit from having multiple mentors over the course of your career. Guess that applies to both Gray and the VT DBs.
The only thing I haven't seen people comment on is what really matters, maybe it doesn't have anything to do with money or the job itself (leadership)... there are things like FAMILY! Ya know things that actually matter in life.
Tgray is recently divorced in the last couple years and is either remarried or has a new girl.
Tgray has a daughter that is a senior in High School this year. (everyone said he would stay at Tech until she graduated so she didn't have to move schools) Well she is graduating.
HE IS FROM FLORIDA! Sometime people like to move closer to where they are from no matter where they went to school!
It is time for him to move on, Foster has chosen to be a Dcoordinator for life now, which doesn't give Tgray the opportunity to become the Dcoordinator on his staff.
All I see is a great opportunity for Tgray. Congrats to him and his next chapter in life.
We can all nit pick on why and how this happened, but when it comes down to it, we aren't playing a video game here. These coaches do have real lives.
With that said, I think we are upset by the recruiting day, mens bball loss, and losing a 4star from last year... all combined with this didn't help. And as a competitive fan base, we are ready to win, and win now. Which I don't see a problem with at all, but we have to trust our leadership, Whit, to Fuente, to Foster... they will make a great hire. And we will still be DBU.
Wait, we're close to having no fullers, DBs coach is vacant, what is Vinny Fuller doing?
Probably studying for the bar exam.
http://www.twitlonger.com/show/n_1so97rq
Interesting story about Torrian Gray
More Torrian Gray stories hahah these stories crack me up. Who goes to a movie theater with the cup for free refills?
Maybe my previous rant about it only being a 5% paycut holds zero water if he's a penny pincher, I guess I never even took that into consideration. Maybe he just liked the people who worked there and just wanted an excuse for a 'pop in'? Either way. I want more.
My speculation is that Gray wanted the DC seat in a few years. With Scott coming on board, he probably realized he no longer is the clear choice. May explain the dynamics on why Scott was the last released hire.
To me we will be fine. Gray didn't make DBU, only kept it going.
Proud Father Of Two Beautiful Young Ladies. University of Florida Defensive Back Coach. #DBU
That is from TG's twitter page...if he wants to go to UF, so be it, but god damn it, he cannot take DBU with him!
That makes it 100%
Even if he was still our DB coach, we'd need to earn that title back at this point.
Oh, no, no, no, no. DBU stays right here.
Good day, sir.
Sad to see TG leave. I really hope this isn't a sign of friction between the old and new staffs. My biggest concern about this entire arrangement was whether or not the old guard guys could handle and adapt to Fuente's way of running the program. If he felt slighted or disrespected by the pay cut or any new staff arrangements, I really question why he came back on the staff in the first place. I really don't like the timing of this announcement. But it is what it is. Really liked him as a coach, but with the Tolliver and Davis fiascos within the past few seasons, and then the odd miscommunication during the season between he and Bud about personnel during games, something was kind of off.
I wish him nothing but the best, and it's some consolation to finally see the Beamer coaching tree expanding. I really hope we use this opportunity to hire a top-notch coach as well as recruiter. I understand the sentiment by some to stay within the VT family for this hire, but I really think we need to hire the best candidate we can find nationally. If that is someone with ties to VT, great; if not, so be it. By the same token, I also really would not like to see Fuente hire somebody from within his Illinois State/Memphis network just because he knows and trusts them. We need a great coach and somebody who can recruit. I believe I saw it mentioned earlier in this thread, but someone mentioned Chip West as a candidate. UVa affiliation aside, he had a tremendous amount of success recruiting in the 757 (some at our expense, and I believe most of UVa's biggest recruits were from him). Would also be a great move to counter London and Beatty at UMd. Hopefully there will be a great pool of candidates assembled by the athletic department.
I'm curious as to how TG's departure may affect Bud's scheme this upcoming year. Gray was known at being great with teaching man coverage techniques, so will we be able to run as much Cover 0/Bear as Foster wants? May or may not have significant impact, but will be interesting to watch nonetheless.
If Shibest doesn't have a top 10 ST/TE this year, cut that salary in half. Come on, this is ridiculous. Another source says that he will be filling in for Coach Gray...dude didn't even recruit well.
I'm in the minority here that don't consider this a bad thing. We had a history of strong DB play long before Gray came on as coach. He did a great job fine tuning an already efficient machine, and he'll be missed on the recruiting trail as well. That being said, this is another example of how long Hokie fans have been spoiled by the staff continuity under Beamer. I think as far as the coaches are concerned, this is not a big deal and I'd imagine they'd be surprised by the rage in this thread. Coaches hop jobs pretty frequently, and it's not a bad thing to have a good coach leave to get experience elsewhere. A college coaching resume isn't just about performance, a good part of it is also who you've worked with. Having a variety of experience in different systems looks good for a coach. This is a great opportunity for Gray to work with different coaches and learn new things, building his resume for a step up the chain. Down the road there's no reason he couldn't come back to VT as DC or even as head coach some day, and now he'll be a more attractive hire to those who don't have an emotional investment in VT football (i.e. not the fans).
I know we'd all love our favorite coaches to stay at VT forever while maintaining a high level of performance on the field and in recruiting, but so does every other fan of every other school. It just isn't realistic, and the speculation that he's leaving because of pay cuts or personality conflicts is just a heaping stack of bullshit. No one outside the football program has any idea how Gray felt about the new contract, how he gets along with the new staff, or why he's chosen to leave VT. Going around and around in circles about the pay cut is pure conjecture based on no real facts and amounts to nothing more than intellectual masturbation, it satisfies a need to vent, but in the end accomplishes absolutely nothing.
In 10-15 years, he will be looking like a Must Have head coach. I dream of the day when we can have coach TGray back. Good luck, I'll be rooting for your Defenses unless we play you.
I've never thought TG was head coach material. Maybe he'll prove me wrong, but I'll be surprised.
Torrian Gray's new twitter bio.
Not a good look for Fuente when he's saying no decision has been made, etc., etc. There VERY clearly has been and he's not fooling anyone.
I don't remember the exact question, but I think the "no decisions have been made" quote has been blown up too much. I think he was asked how he would move forward (after saying the Torrian news had not been confirmed), and this was a very generic answer.
Otherwise,
8:00 AM - no decision made
10:00 AM - decision had been made
It's still not necessarily false.
My first impression is that this means Bud is here indefinitely. Gray saw the writing on the wall (or was told explicitly) that the position would not be opening up, and so he realized if he wants to be a DC or even HC (and let's assume he does), he needs to start expanding his resume now. Wish him the best, there might be some struggles at first, but I think we'll be fine.
This is how I feel about it. We all want TG to be a DC, but we want him to be OUR DC. With Bud staying, he missed his shot and is now going out on the path to become a DC elsewhere, a stop at Florida being part of that. We all love TG, but we can't have our cake and eat it too. In hindsight it seems clear that keeping Bud and TG long term was unrealistic.
A winning attitude trickles down from the top. Assistant coaches come and go, this should have no effect anything we are able to produce on the field. While we have grown to love TG and it stings right now it is far from detrimental to our overall cause. A new hire will be made, he will be trained by the best DC in the country and we will all move on. I wish TG nothing but the best.
We wanted CHANGE! This is a by product of change. It is naive to think everything will happen exactly how we have planned it out in our heads.
I agree.
We want improvement with no changes.
That's not going to happen. It might take a while for VT to get it's groove back, but it was lost a few years ago.
I was kind of tore up about this, but the more I think about it, the more I might become more comfortable with it. Our D backfield has cost us some games since that cincy loss in 2012. Maybe someone can come in and have just as much or more success.
Maybe, but they won WAY WAY more games than they 'lost'.
The ONLY thing that makes me think there is a chance we will be okay is that we had good DBs before Torrian coached. The good run of DBs didn't start with him, here's to hoping it doesn't end with him.
Haven't really thought about it too much, but I'd say our D line has won more games for us than our DBs have over the past couple years. Those 30-40 chunk yardage plays really hurt.
Keep in mind I am in no way bashing TG, and he was historically my favorite coach, and I have all the love in the world for DBU
His best coaching performance was 2010. An average performance by the defensive backfield, and the Hokies would have been .500 in the ACC. That was the worst defensive front 7 I can remember, even after this season, during the Beamer era. Gray's DBs had so many critical INTs to change momentum that season.
Goodness, we needed every single of them that season too. Roc, Hosley, Whitley, Morgan and Fuller at nickel if I remember correctly.
I am upset (as I'm sure most Hokies are) that TG has departed, but we will find a good replacement. I am more torn up about when he left. I understand the state of college football, but I was proud to say that my university was not part of this type of BS. To leave some DBs high and dry right after NSD just feels so wrong to me. That is what has me pretty angry. I would rather have had our program be honest and lose the recruits than the current situation we are in now.
My favorite memory of TG will be when he tracked down Tiki Barber on the first play from scrimmage in 1996. Set the tone for a 21-9 VT win (maybe it was 26-9?). I believe Tiki set the all-time ACC rushing record with that carry, but when he was tracked down by Gray (and horse collared), it was clear that their best wasn't good enough that day.
I was initially disappointed in Fuente, as I figured he knew and kept it hush until after signing day, but if so why would they put THIS out??? Makes me think Fuente was as blindsided as the rest of us.
I don't know what to think.
I think I need a drink or six.
Bottom right corner...
I have never hated irony so much
Yep, with Bud staying on here, if TG wants to be a DC in the near future, he's gonna have to move on...seems like it wasn't handled the best though.
Still #DBU
Hmmmm. Is this part spin or is it all the straight poop? Probably some spin in there in regards to the offers to stay - VT probably did but knew it was a done deal - so its optics to some degree.
Note the last sentence by Coach Foster. Fuente is deciding the new DB coach... (I acknowledge that may be a generalized statement, but Bud didn't say "Coach Fuente and I").
If you can't tell, Yes, I'm pissed off about TG leaving. He dovetailed extremely well into Bud's system - hard to find a solid replacement.
Knew this day would come, just didn't expect it to come so soon. We will surely miss his recruiting. This puts Babcock and Fuente on the hotseat to find a qualified candidate to replace Gray's production on field and off.
I feel better now like there's closure. I'm ready for the next guy to step up. I've stomped my feet in the puddles enough today.
The only way that this makes sense in my head is if this is for family reasons since he's from Florida or is getting big raise which he insinuated he wasn't. Unless of course there was some friction from the pay cut and/or the new staff. At best this is a lateral move career wise since its only announced as a DB coach and not an assistant D coordinator or something else. Wish him the best though, just hope they find the right kind of fit to make this work as he is a good one.
I'd disagree with this being lateral in anything more than a superficial sense. At Tech, he had little hope to advance beyond his current position. At Florida, he'll likely get more eyes on him in a short amount of time, in a conference with what seems to be quite a bit of turnover, which bodes better for him moving up the ladder to DC.
After the initial impact of all this and reading all the comments all day, Here's my take on this. Florida fired their DB coach on January 14. They likely had a short list of candidates, of which Torrian was undoubtedly either at or near the top. I'm sure they reached out to him somewhat quickly, and arranged an interview sometime in the past couple of weeks. There likely was not a quick decision, as I'm sure Florida interviewed at least a couple of coaches. I would hope that Torrian informed Coach Fu & Foster about his interview and his interest. I would guess that a final offer wasn't extended until the past few days. And in regard to the Lynchburg event poster, that would have been printed up well in advance. Torrian's acceptance of the offer seems to have been timed to make sure that Tech was taken care of with regard to recruits getting their NLI in (as insensitive to the kids as that seems...Torrian was taking care of his responsibilities to VT). I would assume that TG told Coach Fu sometime Monday or Tuesday of his decision, which would have put the gears in motion for the "generous counteroffer". But by this point TG's mind was made up, the deal was done.