Between assembling a coaching staff and putting the finishing touches on his first recruiting class, Justin Fuente's been a busy man since arriving in Blacksburg last November. But after an offseason full of change, Fuente's pretty darn excited to get back to what he does best — coaching football.
"We've done a lot of things here in the last several months, and none of it is coach football," laughed Fuente. "The chance to finally hang a whistle around your neck and get out there...I've said many times, this is the best time of year to be a football coach."
Practice number one of 15 will commence tomorrow evening, the first in a series of Tuesday-Thursday-Saturday workouts leading up to the annual Spring Game on April 23. And with the departure of senior quarterback Michael Brewer, there's no shortage of questions surrounding the Hokies, perhaps none more discussed than the five-way quarterback competition being hosted by new offensive coordinator Brad Cornelsen.
Incoming junior college transfer Jerod Evans may be the odds-on favorite to win the job, but Brenden Motley, Dwayne Lawson, Josh Jackson and Jack Click all promise to remain heavily involved in the quarterback picture throughout the spring and summer. It'll be a day-by-day process, Cornelsen says, a continuous evaluation of all five signal-callers as the Hokies progress through the spring.
"It'll be something we evaluate day-to-day," said Cornelsen. "Those guys know and have known they're being evaluated all offseason. All those guys will gets reps to start out with and as guys deserve more or deserve less, we'll adjust accordingly."
One name notably left out of the discussion is Chris Durkin, the Hokies' latest quarterback-turned-tight-end who Cornelsen seemed high on Monday.
"Durkin's done a nice job jumping into the tight end spot," said Cornelsen. "He's learning a new position and that's a position that involves a lot. Those guys gotta be pretty smart, gotta be pretty versatile. We're excited about him. He's really gone to work. He's excited, I think embraced the move."
Shuffling in the Secondary
Torrian Gray might be long gone, but the former Dean of DBU's beloved spring secondary shuffle doesn't seem to be going anywhere. This year's mix-up, highlighted by the shift of Adonis Alexander to corner and Mook Reynolds to safety, promises to provide plenty of intrigue throughout the spring.
"Chuck Clark will start at safety. Backing him up will be Mook Reynolds, but Mook will also be working at nickel," said defensive coordinator Bud Foster. "We've moved Terrell Edmunds to rover. He could play corner as well, but he's gonna play safety...Right now, our field corner is gonna be Greg Stroman...And then Adonis Alexander will be at our boundary corner...We're a little thin on the back end there particularly at corner, but that's OK. I think Greg and Adonis need as much work as they can get. Guys are extremely talented but really haven't played a lot of corner. It's gonna be a big spring for those guys."
Foster has split up the coaching responsibilities in the secondary — Brian Mitchell will handle the corners, Galen Scott the safeties. Each brings experience as a Division 1 defensive coordinator to the table, something Foster believes should bode well for the Hokies down the road.
"I want those guys to think as coordinators," said Foster. "(Memphis) ran a similar defense as ours but also adjusted to an odd front a little bit. That's gonna be some good input when it's all said and done. Not that we're gonna change, but we're always looking to tweak things and do things a little bit differently or better and improve."
Cornelsen on Offensive Personnel
Wide receiver depth has been a highly-discussed topic in Blacksburg since the arrival of Fuente and his prolific up-tempo offense. Returning starters Isaiah Ford and Cam Phillips will no doubt be dangerous weapons in Cornelsen's arsenal, but identifying depth is high on the to-do list for the Hokies' new offensive coaching staff.
"They probably have the least experience out of any of the groups," said Cornelsen of the receivers. "We've got young guys, guys that haven't played much. All those guys, it's new to all of them. It's a balance between getting our system installed and trying to give those guys a chance to show us what they can do."
At running back, the Hokies return Travon McMillian and Sam Rogers but are without the services of the departed Trey Edmunds. Shai McKenzie and Marshawn Williams also remain intriguing prospects, but a flurry of knee injuries have tempered expectations for each back over the past 12 months. McKenzie has been a full participant in the Hokies' spring workouts, a positive sign for the former four-star recruit that showed limitless potential early in his freshman campaign.
"We're anxious to get him out there and let him go compete with those other backs and see where he's at," said Fuente of McKenzie. "He's been fine in terms of health out there running around. He's been a part of everything we've done this offseason and I think anxious to practice."
The prognosis on Williams is far less reassuring.
"I don't know that we're gonna get much out of him (in the spring). He's still got a ways to go," said Cornelsen.
Foster and Wiles Searching for Depth at Defensive End
The Hokies will be without Corey Marshall, Dadi Nicolas and Luther Maddy up-front this spring, leaving just Ken Ekanem as the defensive line's lone returning starter. Plenty of talent remains — Vinny Mihota, Woody Baron, and Nigel Williams all contributed a season ago — but the Hokies' second group at defensive end is youthful and unproven.
"We're as green as green can be at our end spot," joked Foster.
There's no lack of young prospects, though, perhaps none more intriguing to the Hokies' longtime defensive coordinator than redshirt freshman Trevon Hill.
"I've noticed some things with (Trevon) with his explosiveness and quickness and get-off that excites me," said Foster. "The same things with (Houshun) Gaines. Those two kids, they give me, without any pads on right now...you see some get-off or some quickness and twitch which that position needs."
It's a vastly different story on the interior where the Hokies have a wealth of riches at defensive tackle. Woody Baron and Nigel Williams are the seasoned veterans, but they'll be challenged throughout the spring by Ricky Walker and Steve Sobczak. The elephant in the room, of course, is redshirt freshman Tim Settle, a former five-star recruit who failed to crack the two-deep a year ago but promises to be a player to watch this spring.
"Tim's a big body just in general. I mean he's got big joints, big knees, big elbows," said Foster. "I don't think he's gonna be a guy that's gonna be a 310 pounder, but he has worked to drop his weight. I think he can still drop a little bit more and he's working with our dietician and with the strength coach. We'd like him to drop. It's not gonna happen overnight. He's gotta be disciplined and do some things. But he's working at that, which I'm really proud of him for...He's a guy that we're counting on. He's gonna get a lot of work this spring."
Additional Quotes
Justin Fuente
ON WHAT HE WANTS TO ACCOMPLISH DURING SPRING PRACTICE:
"Obviously there's base installation in all three phases of the game...Player identification and roles. One of our goals for for our kids for them to identify themselves. They're auditioning for roles, whether it be on special teams or the starting middle linebacker or starting quarterback or backup...For our kids to identify themselves, for us to do a great job of evaluating those things. I think as a team, we've gotta learn how to practice and how we're going to practice. That's no small feat. I would imagine for the past several years, they've had very crisp, clean, good practices. I just wanna make sure that we're on the same page with what tempo we're operating at. That's a major part of us. Continuing to instill our foundation and mindset and how we want the program to go forward big-picture wise. And also to facilitate leadership and develop young players. Kind of a wide-ranging set of parameters there, but we've got a lot to do."
ON IF THE 5:30 AM WORKOUTS WERE A SUCCESS:
"It'll be interesting to hear what the kids would say. I thought the kids attacked them pretty well, did a good job...I like the way the kids went about their business, the way they worked. I'm cautiously optimistic that they understood the tempo and the level of toughness we're gonna need to live up to the standards that have been set here before us."
ON THE QB COMPETITION:
"Those guys will earn the reps. It'll be pretty easy to taper them to the guys that perform the best and have the best knowledge base. We've done it like that before. I think they all deserve an opportunity. That being said, guys will earn more reps starting from the first day. As those guys display knowledge base and an ability to execute the average play on a consistent basis, those reps will increase for them and decrease for others."
ON LACK OF DEPTH AT WR:
"We'll have to adjust things to what we have. That's what coaching is. Does us no good to try to force square pegs in round holes. We're gonna have three true freshman wide receivers out there competing. Not just the system is new, but college football is new to those guys. Their development will be key along with the development of the other older guys. Not particularly deep there, so we'll have to as we go through it determine which guys are ready to go now and what they can do and also compare that against the other skill groups. Maybe it's not 3 wide receivers, maybe it's two running backs or two tight ends. Whatever road we may go down based on our evaluation. That's why we're so anxious to get on the field. It's one thing to run around out here in shorts at 5:30 in the morning trying to figure out who's a really good football player. It's another thing to go play the game and then try to figure it out from there. I think that's part of the reason we're so anxious to get out there."
ON TALKING TO BUCKY ABOUT STAYING AND HODGES' ROLE THIS YEAR:
"I didn't do much to dovetail off of there. I didn't feel like that was my role. I did inform him of what it would be like if he came back. To Bucky's credit, he went off and went home over break and I think met with the people that he knew were close to him and made the decision to return. But I think he'll have a big spring. He's had a great offseason so far. Been really, really working hard out there. Been really impressed with his work ethic thus far. But, yeah, we'll have to figure out what he can do, what he can't do, what we can improve as we move along in terms of whether he's playing on the line of scrimmage or split out...And also not overloading. I think you can paralyze players if you ask too much of them too early. Trying to find that correct balance in his development I think will be important."
ON HIS STAFF'S CHEMISTRY:
"Just from what I've taken from them, seeing them interact in the office and socially, I think it's a bunch of like-minded individuals. I feel like I have a decent feel for people and I think I have a pretty good feel for our staff right now. It's pretty positive. I'm sure there's no subject for actually being in the line of fire, and games and going through preparations and going through the ups and downs of a season...there's no simulation for that. But I don't have any doubt that these guys have gelled together...Of all my concerns, that's the least one on my mind right now."
Bud Foster
ON ADDITIONS TO HIS STAFF:
"Number one, I'm really excited about our staff, particularly in the secondary. We've got new guys there. We have split the secondary up. Galen Scott will work with our safeties as well as our whip and nickel. Cody Grimm will be working that as well...The one thing I like about Galen is he's a guy that comes with a lot of knowledge. He's been a coordinator. I like that. A guy that's worn my shoes, so to speak...I want those guys to think as coordinators and they've ran a similar defense as ours but also adjusted to an odd front a little bit. That's gonna be some good input when it's all said and done. Not that we're gonna change, but we're always looking to tweak things and do things a little bit differently or better and improve. Coach Mitchell will coach our corners which I really felt like that that's a position where we need to improve. I think our corner play being consistently good, we've got some young guys. And then our defensive end play. Having a guy with the experience that Coach Mitchell brings...again, he's a guy that was a coordinator which I really like again. That mindset. He's been a corners guy the majority of his time. I think you'll see some different techniques and more techniques and different man things. You can only play man, there's only one, inside (or) outside leverage. But there's different techniques to play. That's something you'll see us do a little bit more of. He brings his expertise on that part of it. That's how we'll split that up."
ON THE WHIP POSITION:
"We've moved Anthony Shegog to our whip linebacker spot. Mook Reynolds is working at our nickel spot. I'm not for sure Anthony can't do both. We're gonna give him that look."
ON VINNY MIHOTA PLAYING DEFENSIVE END OR DEFENSIVE TACKLE:
"He probably would be more suited to play defensive tackle, but at the same time, he plays so hard. He's a smart kid. You want him on the field at some spot. Right now, putting our top four out there, he's probably one of those top four right now. He did a nice job last fall and is only gonna continue to get better. For all those guys that played last year for whatever reason, whether it was injury purposes or whatnot, experience is the best teacher...You see a little bit more self-confidence.
ON THE DEFENSIVE END POSITION:
"Our end position with the way offenses are with the spread offense and running the quarterback...that position's a little bit different than it used to be...These offenses are designed to try to slow your ends down. We're always trying to find ways to get them to play faster. With that being said, the techniques and things haven't changed, but how you read things and what you're anticipating and playing certain plays, we'd like to get them to play a little faster. With that being said, with young players, we need to grow up in a hurry. We need to have a great 15 days, and then I'd like to start back over again probably right after that."
ON BACKUP BACKER JAMIEON MOSS:
"Jamieon really excelled for us on special teams last year. He's a junior that's a guy that I feel like is ready to take that next step. Just some things that we've done with the early installation and early morning workouts, we've done a couple little football things, but more from a mental standpoint, I like where he is right now. He should be ready to challenge."
ON HIS EXPECTATIONS HEADING INTO THIS YEAR:
"I'll say this: our expectations are not gonna change. We expect to be the best. That's not gonna happen every year, but if we don't set high goals and demand high standards, you won't ever get to that point. I think with the potential that we have here offensively whether it's next year or down the road, if we can continue to play the type of defense that we've played consistently over the years, I like the potential of this football program...But with that said, we've got a lot of work to do."
ON HAVING CODY GRIMM AS A GRADUATE ASSISTANT:
"They understand the expectations. They understand the culture...They know our work ethic. It's good to have a guy that's also played in the league...He's had success because he's had to earn it. That's what this program's been all about. He was a walk-on kid that earned a scholarship that ended up being captain of the football team and playing in the NFL."
Brad Cornelsen
ON ROLE OF BUCKY HODGES:
"Bucky gives you some depth. Obviously he's a guy that you've gotta use out there. He gives you some depth at tight end and receiver because you can move him around. He's such a talented kid. He's big and can run. Has some receiver instincts, some receiver skills for being a big guy that's played tight end. We'll definitely use him a lot of different ways."
ON MENTALITY HEADING INTO SPRING PRACTICE:
"We're gonna move slow this spring. It's one thing if you just got a certain position group that's learning and that's got new guys. For us, it's everybody. We're gonna start pretty slow and move as we feel like we're ready to move."
ON DEPTH AT RUNNING BACK::
"Travon and Sam, those are really the only two guys back that have played much, certainly last season. It's gonna be a big spring for the rest of those guys trying to figure out what we have. I think there's some talent there behind those two guys that we've gotta get something out of those guys and develop...It's a little bit of an unknown."
ON HAVING 4 STARTERS BACK ON THE OFFENSIVE LINE:
"I think it's the same for all the positions. You certainly value the experience that those guys have gotten up to this point and it'll help, but regardless of whether it's a new staff or not, you get to spring ball and it's new competition. It's new competition every day, every week, off-season, in-season. It's competitive every day that they show up here. It's a good group. I think there's some depth there. Be excited to do what they can do this spring."
ON SHUFFLING THE STARTING OL:
"We've been mixing those guys through for good reason. Keep those guys on the edge of your seat. Get young guys reps. You want them thinking they could be in there with the first team. I think it helps those guys everyday in practice, it adds a little something to them too."
ON JEROD EVANS AND THE BENEFITS OF HIM ENROLLING EARLY:
"It's been good. It was big for him to get here early. He's certainly been hungry and has put a lot of extra time digging into the playbook, making sure he knows what to do. Been pleased with all those quarterbacks and the amount of time they've put in. We're restricted obviously in the offseason with how much we can demand of them, but they're all excited. They're all looking forward to competing for that job."
Comments
Thank god we have got some football again. Spring football is methadone for my football addiction.
I was just thinking wrestling and BB are over, now what....and this story pops up to remind me the spring starts tomorrow!
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I love that Cody Grimm is a GA with the team. He was my favorite player to come through in O&M.
We be friends
Who else read The quotes from Bud Foster and totally had his voice in your head as you read them.
Completely !
Each and every time.
Sometimes I hear Christian Bale's Batman voice in his quotes.
I was going to comment this exact same thing. I read it in his slightly raspy postgame voice after he's been screaming for three hours.
As I was reading his quotes, it really hit me how thankful I am to still have him around. He truly is the best in the business.
Do we know if Fuente incorporates two-a-days in his practices? Under Beamer we were on of the only P5 holdouts not to do them.
If he does, we will likely not see that until fall camp
Tech is allotted 15 spring practices by the NCAA. It would be unwise to jam all 15 of those into 7 or 8 days.
It looks like the pendulum has swung on this within the last year. They used to be a staple of college football. Most of the articles I uncovered in a Google search about the practice ending were dated from August of last year. It was a pretty quick turnaround. I know within the last three years or so, we were I think the only ACC program not doing them, and one of maybe a half-dozen P5 programs.
Either that, or two-a-days in spring are unheard of and two-a-days in the summer are still used. The question may depend entirely upon where we are in the calendar.
My hope is that they can get enough of the offense installed to be effective, but also, however much is installed, to be understood thoroughly. Chad Morris in his first year, while benefitting from some future NFL skill players, installed only a portion of his offense in that 2011 season and it was very effective. I'm not saying that's the bar, but a system can be installed quickly and yield results.
I found some of Bud's quotes on Mitchell interesting. Particularly:
As a dissenter to the "no look back" technique as instructed by Gray, I'm hoping this means a change. I felt like the "no look back" technique decreased interception opportunities and increased pass interference calls.
I can't speak to whether it increased or decreased anything, but I agree with the dissent to the no-look-back approach. I think you have to look back in the NFL, no? If so, I think we'd do well to teach to that standard.
Until the NCAA changes a pass interference call to a spot foul and not 15 yards, it's far better to get a flag for PI than give up a touchdown. As it has been investigated before on here, most of our interceptions over the years have been from playing robber or zone coverage, a safety undercutting a pass, or a fortunate tipped pass. It is very difficult to intercept a pass while playing man coverage and running stride for stride with the opponent's fastest or biggest receiver. Give them anything more than half a second to adjust their route while you look back and you've lost. As frustrating as the free 1st down and 15 yards are, I'll take them over a 20+ yard completion or a TD every time.
The flipside of this is good receivers know how to play against inside leverage. If the coverage is so tight the receiver realizes he's probably not going to come down with the ball, he can break his route and go up for the ball, thereby drawing contact from a defender who doesn't know the ball's location. In a coverage where you play the receiver's hands, it doesn't take long for good receivers to realize they can get a free 15 on a bad pass just by putting their hands up early.
You beat me to this point because I was doing research. Have a leg.
The flipflipside is that the "no-look-back" technique allows us to lock down wr's one-on-one and lets the safety/rover play the run. It's a big contributor to why we play run defense so well.
No argument. It's pick your poison. Either we cede more to the run without safety help, or we give up more PI calls in man coverage.
A good WR - and there are many, many more of those on the field against us these days - will play possum when the ball's in the air, not even putting his hands up to catch the ball until it's right on him. If a DB is playing the receiver's reactions to the ball coming, he'll get beat the majority of the time if the receiver disguises his intentions well.
However, if he's watching the ball, he at least has a better chance of at least knocking the pass away before the receiver can touch it. And a much lesser chance of drawing a flag that, while it could presumably save a touchdown, would extend the opponent's drive and give them momentum.
Case in point... every drive last season during which we drew a PI flag on 3rd down, the opponent eventually scored a TD. Gave them new life and momentum, made our defense tired, and ran the clock in the process.
every drive last season during which we drew a PI flag on 3rd down, the opponent eventually scored a TD.
amazing stat!
And it made me sad to peruse all the PBPs from last season only to come to that conclusion.
I think the NCAA and the NFL need a version of the basketball rule on blocking/charging fouls. The offensive player is expected to continue his motion and the defender is allowed to maintain his defensive position. If the offensive player causes contact by changing his motion to create contact, the foul should be on the offensive player. It is not fair that poor execution by the offense results in a foul on the defense. In fact, in many cases the quarterbacks are intentionally throwing bad passes to set up pass interference calls.
Not sure if it needs to be a foul on the offense but at least a no-call. So "The WR's change in route was the direct cause of the contact therefore no penalty is assessed." It should just be an incomplete pass if the QB under throws it and the WR bumps the defender trying to get back to the ball.
I like that idea.
a rule change that benefits the defense? Never...gonna...happen.
I get what you're saying, but it's not a "bumping" foul, it's an interference foul. The whole premise of the rule is that the WR or DB is free from interference to get to the ball. Location of throw (besides uncatachable) and direction of running (both DB and WR) have no affect on the rule, and probably shouldn't. The only thing that matters is who making a play for the ball. If both are making a play for the ball, then no foul. If only one (wr or db) is making a play for the ball and the other interferes, then it is a foul.
I understand your point; but my point, possibly not presented very well, was that the defender should be entitled to his spot on the field. The offense should not have unlimited freedom to run through the defender to the ball. I think that is actually what the current rules state; but the interpretation is that if the defender is not looking back and the receiver is, the receiver can run through the defender and PI will be called.
I would pay huge money to see a message board coach give one on one pointers to Bud Foster and/or Torrian Gray on the proper technique to defend the pass...
This.
All these complaints simply suggest you don't understand the trail technique and the significant advantages and freedom it allows our defense. We do not beat Ohio State in 2014 without it. Quite frankly, I do not understand how people still hold this dissenting opinion after the number of times it's been explained.
I think we have seen more mistakes in inside leverage situations than we are used to. Like most techniques, when it's played perfectly, inside leverage looks brilliant. When it's played poorly, it looks stupid.
More an issue of opposing OCs and WR coaches learning how to properly coach their players to play against inside leverage, IMO. Move, countermove.
Yep.
It could just be political fluff that Bud is saying to keep the media off of his back, but it really does seem like he's embracing Scott and Mitchell's previous experience as DC's to implement new ideas and stay ahead of the competition
I know he's out for spring ball and you play with what you have now but interesting there's no mention of where Facyson fits in. I would assume he takes the field side like he has for most of the last two years (when healthy). Still, the comment about a lack of experience at the position makes me think Bud and Co. are game planning pretty hard to be without him.
Sadly, he's not given us much evidence that he can stay healthy. But he's a vet, and has shown that when he's right, he's an impact player...
Long story short, all we can do is hope BF gets back by fall - and that this staff full of coordinators can coach up the young'uns. Keeping an eye on Johnson and Payne in particular.
Did anyone else think it was interesting the way Foster might use Mook this spring?
We have a whip/nickel hybrid in Shegog, and Mook playing nickel but learning Safety? Is that just because of depth, or is this the second hybrid position that has been alluded over the past few months?
I just cant picture how it would be used, the closest thing I could see is having two safeties playing outfield and the rover up on the line, but I dont see how that gets him from bear to dime to nickel and back with the same personnel?
I do feel like there might be some new wrinkles this year that we havent seen, Im just not sure what.
Sounds like Bud is going to get Mihota on the field, bouncing between DE and DT.
Surprised to see Stroman is back at CB. I'm glad, he looks like a good talent and I'm not going to judge him wholly on one rainy game in Greenville where he was thrust into the starting role right before the game.
Full replay. There is half an hour of nothing at the beginning.
Fuente @ 31:55
Foster @ 46:32
Cornelsen @ 1:08:18
Fuente's spring practice hype gif game is strong.
32 day countdown until the Spring game!! Is anyone doing a spring game tailgate? How does seating work for spring game? This will be my first year up there for it.
Sit wherever you want. Normally the NEZ is blocked off. Given that the game is at 2:30 the West Stands will have shade. I'll be tailgating in the Cassell lot with friends starting around 9am - we go crazy with this every year. I'll have my TKP shirt, feel free to stop by for some homebrew I'll have on tap.
Is parking first come first serve also?
It is
I will be back in town for spring game. That is the weekend of my bachelor party and it was one of the biggest requirements for the weekend as I do not get to get back to Blacksburg often. We will be tailgating starting bright and early in the morning in the Litton-Reaves lot
On behalf of all your friends and family, thank you for getting married in the Spring/Summer and not in the Fall.
I'm going to try to make it. Going to depend on where we are in the process of prepping the move to PA.
I have a feeling Lane is going to be packed for the Spring Game
Did anyone else catch this
I thought they couldn't talk football things in the off season workouts? Or has all the 'Don't tweet recruits' driven me to a heightened state of paranoia
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As someone pointed out a week or so back (JUGS, maybe?) the only distinction is: if there's a football on the field, it counts as a practice. No football = just conditioning. So he can say "football things" because clearly they were doing footwork drills and such (DBs doing backpedaling and whatnot) and as long as no one is toting the rock, it's all just workouts so there is no problem.
I believe the NCAA allows limited contact between players and coaches in terms of studying playbooks. They don't get much of a chance to work on such things, but it's not completely forbidden. So "installing a new offense" is still in its infancy.
Update if there's a response? I want him on the sidelines asap.
The "like" "heart" are from him.
Meanwhile at UVA.... snow angels in the winter, hand holding in the spring and an ass whooping in the fall.
LOLUVA speaking to Tech: "We are GODS you dull creatures *sips zima*, you are BENEATH us!"
Clicky linky for result.
not gonna lie I was totally expecting clips from the 38-0 game or the dozen others we have won.
Puny Zima sipping gods...
Are we there yet?
So is it a requirement for the new OC at VT to have a newborn their first year?
Better to have the kid now at least, rather than in the week leading up to ECU.
Not sure...small sample size. :(
(no pun intended, but I'll allow it to look that way)
OT:
Someone (JMU maybe?) needs to update Coach Stinespring's Wikipedia article STAT. Besides being out of date, whoever has been making updates over the years are not huge fans of BS. The current revision is "fair", but the table of contents amounts to:
INTRO: "...he has been relieved of his playcalling duties..."
1. Criticism
2. Offensive Statistics
3. References
Bryan Stinespring Wikipedia
The negative "revisions" started Jan. 8th, 2008 after a certain Orange Bowl loss. This more recent one is particularly entertaining and disturbing at the same time:
Sept. 13th, 2010 Revision
this is what happens when you let IllinoisHokie play with wikipedia...
And this, kids, is why Wikipedia should never, ever be used as a source for a paper.
Further OT: It amazes me how many people get to college and still try and use Wikipedia as a legit source of information.
I would always start at Wiki but I never used them as a source. Wiki articles often list other more legitimate sources. I would go to Wiki, get familiarized with the topic, then follow Wiki's sources to get the real info and use those sources in my papers. This was back in 2004 and 2005 when, to my knowledge, Wiki was still somewhat reliable for most things. Plus, most of my teachers required at least 2 off-line sources so I still had to spend time in the library looking at old fashioned books.
I was generally a Stinespring defender, but I have to say that this was some high quality trolling: