Outside of quarterback, perhaps no position battle has sparked more discussion around Blacksburg than the stockpile of big bodies defensive line coach Charley Wiles has at his disposal inside.
And while veterans Woody Baron and Nigel Williams remain the stalwarts of the first unit, a trimmed-down Tim Settle is beginning to make waves as spring ball approaches its halfway point. After ballooning to nearly 360 pounds since arriving on campus, a noticeably slimmer Settle is on display this spring, no doubt music to defensive coordinator Bud Foster's ears.
"I've made this statement about (former Hokie defensive tackle) Cordarrow Thompson years ago, his family considered gravy as a beverage," laughed Foster. "I'm not for sure that wasn't the case for Tim there for a while."
But no more, Settle promises. Working under the guidance of the Hokies' nutrition team, a new and improved diet has helped the big body shed nearly 20 pounds since the beginning of spring workouts.
"The eating has been way better," said Settle. "I try to drink just strictly water throughout the day. I try to get a protein, a carb, it's a little bit of everything. So like a normal meal for me, in the morning I'll get some fruit, some eggs. And then for lunch, I'll get grilled chicken with broccoli and mashed potatoes. I have to have a certain amount of each food group. I've been working with the nutritionist a lot. They really led me in the right direction."
But that wasn't always the case. Settle wasn't the least bit hesitant to poke fun at his former self, at one point summing up his affinity for food in just six brief words.
"I see it, I wanted it."
Settle, currently sitting at exactly 340 pounds, hopes to drop 10 more before this fall in the hopes of reaching his preferred playing weight of 330. A sleeker, more in shape Settle — while still presenting a load to handle inside — could wreak havoc up front for Hokie opponents.
"He's really watching what he's eating, but he has to if he wants to perform at this level and perform more than a couple plays," said Foster. "That's where when he's going well, going good, he's hard to handle inside because he's big, because he's twitchy, he can get off on the ball. But all of a sudden, he gets tired...But once you get him pushing and get him rolling, it's like a big ol' ball moving."
And if Settle is to drop, say, another 150 pounds, perhaps the Hokies' coaching staff will let him try his hand at returning punts. The baby-faced defensive tackle sparked chuckles throughout Hokie Nation after a pre-practice video of him fielding punts surfaced on Twitter last week, but Settle assured me that Greg Stroman isn't overly concerned with his job security.
"Nah, I don't think Stroman's looking over any shoulders," Settle laughed. "He's way faster than me."
Back by popular demand! Tim Settle fielding punts pic.twitter.com/wS5CPkLCsI— VT Football (@VT_Football) April 2, 2016
Depth at Defensive End Remains a Question Mark
The Hokies return both Ken Ekanem and Vinny Mihota at defensive end this spring, but depth is a drastically different story. Foster hasn't shied away from the subject, once again pulling out one of his favorite catchphrases of late before the Hokies' Tuesday evening practice.
"It is a project," said Foster of locating depth up front. "We're as green as green can be."
But that's not to say the Hokies' longtime defensive coordinator hasn't been impressed with some of his young talent up front. Trevon Hill and Houshun Gaines — two highly-recruited prospects who each redshirted in 2015 — were the two freshman Foster seemed most impressed with through six spring practices.
"Trevon Hill has really showed here early the explosiveness and the playmaking capabilities that we saw recruiting him," said Foster. "Houshun Gaines has really done a nice job...Improving each day. Are they ready yet? No. But those two guys have kind of emerged as the next couple of guys behind Ken and behind Vinny."
Foster also gushed about the spring performance of Baron, a significant contributor in 2015 who the Hokies appear primed to rely on heavily for production inside next fall.
"I'll tell you, Woody Baron right now is really playing at a high level. I mean at a high level," raved Foster. "I really like what he's about. He's actually, he's about 275 pounds right now. That's big for him. He's been more in that 65-68 range, even 60. You just see a bigger, faster version of what you've seen before."
And further muddying the waters at tackle is Ricky Walker, a former four-star recruit out of Hampton, Virginia who contributed as a freshman in 2014 before redshirting in 2015. It wasn't the ideal year Walker may have planned for, but the 757 product remains confident that it was the best option for his career in maroon and orange.
"It benefited me a lot," said Walker. "Kind of sucked, you know, not playing football, especially (after) playing as a freshman. But I took it as a learning experience. Getting healthy, getting better."
The redshirt year appears to be paying early dividends this spring as Walker has spent the majority of his time working alongside Settle in the Hokies' second group at defensive tackle.
"We redshirted Ricky last year, but tell you what, he's really playing fast and physical," said Foster. "Playing like he's played before. I think that year of maturity, year of strength, has helped him."
And while the Hokies' experienced players up front remain a notch above the rest, Wiles has promised his unit a true competition at every position along the defensive line this spring.
"It's very deep. It's very tough," said Walker. "Everyday we compete. Spring is when you really compete. You go win that job. Coach Wiles, he's letting it be known, it's deep. He's not sugarcoating nothing. He's very tough and I love it."
Getting Back to Basics in the Secondary
2015 was a difficult year for the Hokies in the back end, injuries and young players at key positions greatly limiting the options at Foster and former secondary coach Torrian Gray's disposal. This spring, the Hokies shuffled some positions in the secondary once more in the hopes of locating a comfortable niche for each of DBU's present disciples.
"Last year was just such a...it's been documented," said Foster. "We had the injuries and all the different things. That's just kind of how our season went back there. We're trying to make adjustments and you couldn't. And that's what we're getting back to right now. We're getting back to guys being at home and teaching them the base concepts and things of base coverage back there. I've been real pleased with where we're going right now."
And with a healthier and more experienced secondary, Foster hopes to tinker with more zone coverages and even the occasional odd front.
"I'm excited about Coach Mitchell and about Coach Scott," said Foster. "You give me two guys that have coordinator's experience. Galen's been in our defense, he's been in an odd defense. Same thing with Brian. They've coordinated both even and odd fronts which we're gonna get into a little bit of odd stuff, particularly on third down. So their experience is gonna be helpful."
Leading the charge on the back end will be Chuck Clark, a two-year starter for the Hokies that will provide an important steadying force for a young secondary.
"Chuck Clark's as solid as the day is long," said Foster.
Tremaine Edmunds Preparing for Starting Role
At 6'5" and 236 pounds, it's not difficult to see why Foster becomes so animated whenever the name Tremaine Edmunds gets brought up. Edmunds played briefly at backer in 2015 during his true freshman season, filling in for a suspended Deon Clarke in the Hokies' late-season matchup with Georgia Tech.
But with Clarke moving on after an up-and-down four year career, Edmunds figures to be the future of the backer spot in Blacksburg. And boy, does he look the part.
"He reminds me of a little bit of Xavier Adibi," said Foster, not a comparison to be taken lightly around these parts. "But a little bit bigger. Xavier was a 6'2" guy, Tremaine's 6'5". But he does have some of those same qualities. He's athletic. He can be a good pass rusher. He can be good in coverage. He can chase things down in space."
But Edmunds remains a work in progress, a daily project of Foster's that could blossom into something special with just a little more time.
"He's doing some really good things. For six days of really just getting it all, I'm pleased," said Foster. "But he still has so much room to grow...Just a little bit his mind tying up his feet, some where he's not just out there doing it. But you see the flashes and when that all clicks, which hoping by next fall it'll all click...Once he gets to that part of it, where he just sees...he's not worried about getting lined up. He's just lining up and playing ball. I think you're gonna see a really special guy."
Additional Quotes
Bud Foster
ON THE DEFENSIVE LINE:
"I feel good about our defensive tackle position. Ricky Walker's done some really good things early in camp. I've been real pleased with Tim Settle. And then Woody Baron, right now, is playing at a really high level. Nigel Williams has done a great job. So you have a little bit of experience there. Steve Sobczak is playing well here early. So you've got some guys, with the exception of Settle, guys that have a little bit of experience in there. Our biggest project is at defensive end. Obviously we're returning Ken Ekanem. Seth Dooley's out. So we've kept Vinny Mihota at end, and Vinny's done a great job. I love what he's all about. He plays so hard. Still have concerns a little bit in space, but he's a guy that is gonna play for us I trust. A couple guys have really stood out though. Darius Fullwood does some really good things, but needs to be consistent. And then Jimmie Taylor...has done some good things, has shown some flashes. He was playing our left end spot. We moved him actually over to the right side on Saturday, and that was a little bit different for him. Just different footwork. He's a naturally right-handed down guy and that kind of put him in a left-handed stance, so that's a little bit different. But I really like what I see. I think those other two guys, three guys are a little bit ahead of him right now. That's just a position that we've gotta grow up in a hurry. Those guys have done a nice job. Charley's done a nice job with those guys."
ON COMPETITION UP FRONT/YOUNG GUYS WINNING STARTING ROLES:
"There's a chance in there, there really is...But yes, there's some battles in there right now. And I like that. Competition's healthy. We need competition at a couple more slots. We're getting that at defensive end. We need a little more competition in the back end and a little more competition at linebacker, but that's gonna come as we bring some guys in from our recruiting class and down the road. But competition's a healthy thing and we've got that inside. It's good to see. And it's good at defensive end. You've got the young guys that are pushing each other and wanting to get on the field. You like that."
ON THE SECONDARY:
"Greg Stroman's having a dynamic camp so far in the first six days. Adonis Alexander's learning. That's just what we thought, he's a guy that has a lot of potential and ability but he was just thrown in at corner the last two ballgames and Brian Mitchell's doing a great job with those guys. That's what I'm really excited about, let me jump off track here one second. Coach (Mitchell), though, he's a guy that's really known for developing corners where he's been. That's an area where we need to continue...that's kind of been our M.O. We've had some dynamic guys there. We've got some young dynamic guys there if we can get healthy. We're not very deep there right now with Facyson being out. I'm hoping we can get him back a little later. But he's really being good mentally in meetings from that standpoint. At our safety spot, Coach Scott's doing a great job. He's really coaching our two safeties and our whip, and Cody Grimm is really working with our whips quite a bit. But we moved Terrell Edmunds to our rover spot, and I'll tell you, he's really a dynamic football player. I like what he's all about. Jahque Alleyne's backing him up and he's coming along. He's taking baby steps. We'd like him to be a little bit better quicker, but it'll come. Like a lot of guys, after 15 days we'd like to have 15 more. But he's making strides. And at safety,. Like what he's all about. And then a guy who's really having a good camp is Der'Woun Greene. I think Der'Woun's getting kind of a second lease on life in the back end there and making the best of it. Just a good football player, a heady football player. Could play both spots for us. So I like how that's coming along back there. I like how we're teaching things. We can really focus on our corners and their technique and we're gonna try to change up some techniques and things. In the end of the day, last year we played so much man coverage because we couldn't play anything else. We're trying to look at playing a little bit more zone coverage or quarters and things where we have more eyes on the ball, hopefully not giving up as many big plays in the run game or in the passing game. I like where we're going right now and how those guys are coaching those positions. But also, more importantly, how our guys are responding to the coaching of Galen and Brian."
ON TIM SETTLE:
"He's working at (his weight) right now. I'm proud of Tim from that standpoint. It's not gonna happen overnight, but he's never gonna be a 300 pounder. I think that bypassed him already... He's really doing a good job. I think the last weigh-in, he was at 341. I know when he drops below 340, he'll be all excited. That's just how he is. He's a kid that's really willing to please and wants to please. Wants to be a good football player, too. Just like the direction he's going, on and off the field as far as how he's trying to be disciplined and watching what he's eating and those type of things."
ON RICKY WALKER/THE REDSHIRT YEAR:
"Obviously that year, (he was) disappointed, but at the same time, it gave him a chance to get stronger. Sometimes a redshirt year will do that to you, particularly coming in, he played right away as a freshman. So really didn't get that like some guys get with that extra year in the weight room so to speak...He's playing really, really fast. He's always been a guy that has some get off, some explosiveness. Reminds me a little bit right now of Luther Maddy. He's got a little bit of that in him right now. He's about 290 pounds, 288 pounds, somewhere in that range. He's really playing fast, playing technique sound. Has a good football IQ. I like where he is right now."
ON ADJUSTING TO THE TEMPO OF JUSTIN FUENTE'S OFFENSE:
"We're not very deep (into the spring), but I'll tell you, it's just like a two-minute drill the whole time Which that's fine. It's great for us. It makes us have to hurry up and get lined up, communicate. I think it's just as much mental as physical. There was probably a couple of times that we didn't catch up to it early. But we're starting to get used to the tempo. We always practiced hard and practiced fast before, but from the start of a period, just with this, it's like a two-minute drill. It's that all the time. That's gonna be great for us I think as a defense down the road. Playing the up-tempo teams, it's not gonna be quite a shock. Obviously during the season, we'll work some good-on-good and it'll still be that kind of tempo. That's just gonna prepare us for those type of teams that we're gonna see whether it's North Carolina, Tennessee early...We're not gonna be trying to play as much catch-up from a prep standpoint as far as the tempo."
ON DEPTH AT MLB:
"Andrew (Motuapuaka) was playing well, but he ended up pulling his calf a little bit. So he's been out the last couple of days. Carson Lydon's been getting a lot of reps now. He was the third guy last year and then kind of got thrown in as backup for a couple games when Andrew went down. He's getting a lot of reps because Huelskamp's out. He had shoulder surgery. Carson's done some good things. He's still learning. He's a little bit in the same mode as Tremaine. Still learning, but yet you see flashes of a guy who's gonna be a really good football player."
Tim Settle
ON HIS WEIGHT LOSS:
"Dropping the weight wasn't as difficult now. The new coaching staff, they came in, their idea was to attack this in the right way. We weigh-in every week, just making sure that everybody's doing what they're supposed to do. It's been working. I've lost 15 pounds since this spring has started. It's really been working out for me. As far as ideal weight, for this season it's 330."
ON PLAYING THIS FALL:
"I think the expectations for me are really high. I'm still taking it in right now. I'm still learning, step by step. I'm not trying to really rush right now. But when it's ready, when it's time for me to step in, I think I'll be ready."
ON CONDITIONING DRILLS HELPING HIM LOSE WEIGHT:
"The running really helped me out a lot. Just because we did it consistently. It's breaking down the little muscles, it's burning the fat off. And we were just doing it consistently like the hell week we had, the 5 a.m.'s we had to do. That really helped me a lot. Ever since we've been practicing, I've been maintaining, just eating healthy. Just making sure I'm active every day."
ON REDSHIRTING HIS FRESHMAN YEAR:
"I don't think I was disappointed. It was the right decision at the right time...I didn't really know the plays, scheme...I just wasn't really into it like I should have been."
ON HOW HE USED TO EAT:
"Before I started the weight loss process, I felt like just eat till you get full. But now, you've gotta think of it as that's how you gain weight. So I'll eat, I'll have a set portion, I'll eat that and then I'll be good till the next meal. I try to starve myself, not starve myself, but I just try to make it enough where I can make it throughout the day. I have a certain amount of meals every day and it's been working."
ON ADJUSTING TO COLLEGE FOOTBALL:
"During the fall, during scout and stuff like that, I felt like the weight, me being heavy was kind of hard for the o-lineman to block. Just because it's a lot of weight, plus me lifting and stuff like that. It's getting a little difficult now that I've started to trim down. I really can't overpower like I want to, but the change overall, it's the same with high school. But it's just I've been dealing with stronger people."
ON RETURNING PUNTS FOR FUN:
"That's something I really enjoy. The fact that we're involved like that before practice and get to do something like that. That's something different that you don't really see a lot of schools. I feel like that fits my personality kinda, just me being able to go out there and run around and just be able to catch a ball. That's like a big guy's dream."
Ricky Walker
ON BUYING INTO HIS REDSHIRT YEAR:
"It didn't take me long...Redshirting's not a bad thing. People look at it as bad, but it's not really a bad thing. I thought about it and was like, 'you know, that's what's best for me and the program, so I'm gonna stick with it.'"
ON TIM SETTLE:
"Tim actually came a long way. He lost about almost 15, 20 pounds. He looks pretty good out there. He's learning. He's getting reps with the second team with me. He's catching on pretty quick. After this spring, he's gonna be up there pretty good."
ON HOW HE FEELS PHYSICALLY:
"Physically, I actually feel better. The offseason was different, a lot of running. Right now, I'm 285 solid. I was like 290 last August, but at 285 I feel real good. Moving out there real good. This new tempo's very fast, but after Colorado's (5 a.m workouts), I'm used to it."
ON FOSTER AND WILES STAYING IN BLACKSBURG:
"That was big. That was real big. Just hearing that news that Bud and Coach Wiles (were staying), that was a little weight off my shoulders. I didn't have to worry about a change or impressing new faces. Just going out there, having the same game plan, same technique and all that."
Vinny Mihota
ON IF HE FEELS OLD NOW WITH ALL THE YOUNG DE'S:
"Yeah, I feel a little bit old. I feel like I can help them a lot along the way because it's the same stuff since we have the same position coach, the same coordinator. We just have all the same plays. I kinda know what's going on, this will be third spring."
ON IF HE FEELS MORE COMFORTABLE AT END:
"A lot. Last spring, I moved there (end) a practice before the spring game, so every play during the spring game, I was looking over for Coach Wiles and he had to tell me what to do every play because I had no idea. But having a whole year at my belt at the position, I never not know what I'm doing."
ON HIS CURRENT WEIGHT:
"I got down to 265. When I was trying to put on weight when I was a tackle, I was up near 280. I felt like that's just slightly too big to be an end, so that's why I dropped down to 265 for this season."
"I feel a lot quicker. I didn't sacrifice any strength, I don't think. All my weight room numbers are still increasing."
ON THE YOUNG DEFENSIVE ENDS:
"I think they're great. I think they've come a long way, not only since they've been here, but since practice started to today's practice seven, they've come a long way. I feel like they're gonna be really good players."
Comments
Bud said Ricky is 3rd DT and pushing those guys. Lots of praise on Baron, but I think no 2 DT is still in question. Going to be interesting to see how guys finish. From the interview still seems like endurance is question on Settle.
Anytime you got a guy that big, endurance will always be a question. 'Refridgerator' Perry couldn't play more than 3 consecutive plays without needing a breather, but if this guy can be our 'Fridge', we'll have something.
I was confused by the picture at the top of the article. For a second I was like "Settle is really not aging well."
Walker has looked consistently good in the snap chats.
Sounds like the DT lineup is
1) Baron/Williams
2) Settle/Walker
3) Sobczak/?
Yes. Foster mentioned Harry Lewis would likely be the next name in line.
Have we ever run three deep at DT? That's exciting
We're going to need to, eventually. This year may be more of a transition, but eventually (hopefully) the offense is going to start going balls-to-the-wall and the defense is going to need subs.
considering we were able to RS walker and settle last year i'd say the answer was yes...
Thanks. I have a feeling we will need to create our depth charts this year, Fuente seems to like to keep his competitions open and his info close to the vest.
I think Walker will press Williams but but they have them playing different TACKLE SPOTS.
Tim Settle's weight is coming down nicely, but nutritionists are still formulating a plan to combat his gravy levels.
Nutritionists HATE him!! Click here to find out why!
Please answer your phone, ESPN is trying to contact you for a sports journalism position.
Wait, ESPN has sports journalists?
Nice to have depth at DT, still worried a bit about LB and the secondary. Hopefully our tune-up game is a blow-out so all the youngsters get plenty of reps prior to Bristol...
Linebacker is going to be my main concern going into the fall. I do not like hearing Andrew has been missing practices due to a calf injury. He needs every rep.
I have said this all last season, but if Andew is our starting LB we will have problems on defense but I have a feeling someone else will step up. Otherwise the defense sounds like it is coming along just fine.
Rogers can play both ways right!!!! RIGHT !!!
I wouldn't be so sure about that. I get the concern, but Mike is such a cerebral position for us, it's not surprising that Moto looked hesitant. We haven't had an early starter at that position in a very long time. He's shown he has the physical capabilities, once it clicks he could be very good.
this is true. we routinely
benefitted from upperclassmen at
Mike for years. Moto did show flashes and big play ability, we just need him to get the consistency.
I disagree, he hasn't shown the physical ability to drive through the player while making a tackle.
To me that physicality you speak of is related to the mental aspect of the position though. He has power and he is one of the more physically gifted Mike's we have had in a while. He just needs to learn and adjust to what Foster really wants from him. His mental tie up was resulting in him moving lateral more than downhill which resulted in the inability to drive through a player when making a tackle.
In a recent Norm Wood article, Moto described playing injured much of the season. Said he tweaked his knee and wore a sleeve most of the year. Then after the bowl game he got an MRI and apparently he been playing with a torn meniscus most of the season. That had to slow him down a little bit even if it was just a nuisance. Also broke a finger during bowl practice which affected his play in that game.
My hope for him is that he can stay healthy so he can really play to his potential. Same goes for Lydon and Huselkamp as they were both banged up for most of the season too. We need healthy linebackers.
"Last year was just such a...clusterfuck
it's been documented," said Fostergo ahead Bud we all know you wanted to say it.
Hopefully our tackles are quick enough and strong enough to make plays consistently. If they draw double teams then maybe AM will have time to make better reads. To me, his angle of pursuit was a huge opportunity for improvement.
Please let this comparison come to fruition. Maybe I'm just a youngin', but he was definitely my favorite VT linebacker.
a Xavier Adibi-like LB? YES, PLEASE!
Curious - how much does that really matter? I understand an odd - even front is the distinction regarding how you line up on the LOS against the OL, specifically in the gaps. But does it REALLY matter that much at the DB level what they line up at the LOS?
I think he meant more that both Mitchell and Scott have coordinator experience so they can help Bud with doing things. Basically Bud has 2 more sets of eyes on the scheme to help with figuring out what tweaks to make.
most interesting quotes in the entire article for me...
"They've coordinated both even and odd fronts which we're gonna get into a little bit of odd stuff, particularly on third down."
and
" We're trying to look at playing a little bit more zone coverage or quarters and things where we have more eyes on the ball, hopefully not giving up as many big plays in the run game or in the passing game."
good catches there. would have loved to see more of this last year.
Part II?!?!
Whoa whoa whoa, when did this happen?
not sure what to make of this...
via GIPHY
Anyone?
That picture is of a slowpoke. He was calling you a slowpoke.
Slowpoke Meme Explanation
For those of us who don't follow every fad on the internet, thank you for the explanation.
In all seriousness though you learn more than you want to when you work with teenagers for a living.
http://www.roanoke.com/sports/colleges/va_tech/virginia-tech-football-fo...
Settle should absolutely return punts. Sure, he's slow, but once he gets a full head of steam who's going to tackle him? I wouldn't step in front of that freight train... ;-)
Settle is the new hype train. No one can stop this hype train.
I hope he's not back there returning them routinely, but REALLY want to see him trot out there as a punt returner at least once this year, just to see if they could tackle him. Everyone loves fat guy touchdowns, right? I want to see if a 340-lb DT scoring a punt return TD could break the internet.
Even if we have 2 returners back there, Settle could be a freight train blocking if not the actual return man. Who would want to take him on when he had a full head of steam!
The interesting thing to me is in something that Bud Foster said regarding the new tempo in practice. It seems as if the defense has had to adjust as much as the offense. The reason this important is because this will continue to help Bud's group be more prepared for the up-tempo spread type of offenses that we are seeing more and more of in college football.
Not sure what the expectations should be this year, but I'm excited to see everything begin to get worked out on Saturdays in the fall!
"....but Settle assured me that Greg Stroman isn't overly concerned with his job security."
I am not chuckling reading that statement.
i'm pretty sure that was settle referring to himself taking the job, not the entirety of the team. if shibest had said that i'd be a little concerned
I still don't get all the hate for Stroman as punt returner. Sure he loses 5 yards on around half his punt returners but that's what punt returners do. You have to try and laterally almost always to make the first couple guys miss. Plus pretty sure he has 0 fumbles or muffs and has fielded bouncing punts and saved us yards on plenty. And when he does get around them (Tulsa) he is far and away the fastest guy on the team
I don't hate him, by any means, he is just not very effective. Might as well fair catch the punts. Also, don't think he would be amongst the top 5 fastest guys on the team.
He probably should have said quickest, not fastest. Stroman is shifty which is what made him effective in High School and what makes him a solid option for punt returner.
He is obviously one of the fastest if not the fastest who is faster? Travon maybe.
doubt travon is one of the fastest on team. probably a wr or cb
Well Stroman is a CB
i said travon is not one of fastest not Stroman.
Obvious based on what? I'd agree he's one of the quickest in change of direction, which is what you want at PR, but don't think top end he'd be top 5 on last year's squad not sure about this years.
Based on seeing guys run while playing
I'll bet you that opposing teams fear the hell out of him. They seemed to frequently go out of their way last yr to minimize his touches -- giving up a few yards by kicking high and/or away from him.
I think this frustrated Stroman and he made a number of iffy decisions and tried to force things because he knows he's capable of a big return at any moment.
But IMO he is easily the most explosive VT punt returner since Eddie Royal.
Exactly, I have no idea what these people expect from a punt returner. He doesn't muff the ball, he doesn't fumble, he is a threat to take it to the house or get a long return and has proven that. Who cares if we have some 5 yard losses, that's part of having a playmaker back there.
prior to the Tulsa game (great game, so hopefully that continues) he had 27 returns for 109 yards, so a 4 YPR average. That's terrible...
as a team we were ranked 63rd, out of 127, in the country with an average of 8.5 YPR.
via GIPHY
As a team, we certainly had no good options for returning punts. In my book, that's the point at which you go to the guy who catches them best. Stroman just didn't look good doing that. :D
If you can show me how statistically, over the long run, having a middle of the road return game has a drastic effect on our win/losses then I will care about that. In the meantime, Stroman's punt return for a TD against Tulsa very well could have been the difference between winning and losing Beamer's final game. I'll take the electric guy who can spark the offense with the occasional big return any day over some possession receiver getting 7 ypr instead of 4.
Never claimed it would have a drastic effect on our w/l record. Prior to the Tulsa game how would you classify his performance as a PR? I gave you the statistics do with them what you will...
No one ever suggested using a possession WR as an alternative either and if you are getting 7 YPR instead of 4 that likely means you have had some larger returns, on average, than the guy getting 4.
I gave him credit for Tulsa, but when one game doubles your YPR you weren't having a very good season, period.
I can think of twice when he really went backwards and lost yards, but am probably missing at least one. If you eliminate those his average would be as different as if he did not have Tulsa. I think he has a good chance to rid himself of the bad habit of running the wrong way in the off season with good coaching, and hope we will all be glad to see him returning this year.
Scratching off about 10 yards in losses isn't going to get anywhere close to his 4 returns for 132 yards. I hope like hell he's able to build on that game and stay up near about 8 YPR going forward, but there isn't much there to suggest that, yet...Hopefully with some of the talented younger players we hope we have STs will improve as a whole under Shibest.
Then what is your point? What huge issue is he creating? is losing 5 yards sometimes have a significant statistical or even mental effect on our team's ability to score? Is getting 10 yards instead of 2-4 mean we score significantly more points? Who would be better back there? Is there someone who is as equal a threat to score but also willing to put that player in harms way?
My main point is I have no idea what else you guys expect. He's a potential weapon at punt returner and he doesn't make the mistakes which are much more hurtful than the upside of a 10 yard return. If he had an issue with handling the ball, then yes, that is an excellent reason to want a new punt returner.. Who did you want? How would they have done it better?
This just seems like complaining for the sake of complaining.
Point isn't about the few losses he has. He just wasn't an effective PR until the Tulsa game (ranked 99th in punt return defense), who had atrocious special teams. He may have been the best we had, but find that hard to be the case. Also agree with the person who said it's a team effort on PR, but it seems far fetched to think we were so good last year at PR defense and average at PR offense.
Wasn't aware pointing out hard statistics/facts was complaining. Some people just like to complain about looking at a situation realistically just for the sake of complaining.
That's reframing my argument to something that it wasn't to make it seem weaker/your point stronger. That's a logical fallacy.
You brought up those numbers and I repetitively asked what their significance was and you have failed to provide anything in that regard. I want to see "hard statistics" evidence that having a few yards higher YPR has any significant impact on the effectiveness of our offense to gain yards/score points, you have provided no such thing. You have provided nothing of the sort, and until you do, there is no weight behind your claim that 4 YPR is having a detrimental effect on our team worthy of the constant griping and comments about Stroman's returns that I see on this board consistently.
I don't have to provide anything for you or anyone else in regards to an opinion, which has more factual statistics to back it up then anything you can make up...
Never did I claim it was "detrimental" to the team either, but keep grasping at straws. It's not "helping" the team, but I've never claimed it's detrimental either. It's about equivalent to fair catching the ball every time. I haven't posted about stroman prior to this thread in ages and hope the kid turns out to be a superstar, but he wasn't one last year outside of the Tulsa game.
If you want to know the significance of having superior special teams refer back to the previous decade of hokie football, or have you forgotten beamer ball already?
Like punt return TD's, Blocks, Excellent coverage tackles? Beamerball has fallen off because we haven't been blocking as many punts/kicks or had as many return TD's (or covered opposing returns) as we used to, not because we are averaging 4 YPR instead of 8.
We've certainly hit a wall here, but I hope people read this and realize how ridiculous it is to be so upset over Stroman, an otherwise reliable return man who doesn't make mistakes and has the ability to score, running backwards a few times.
averaging 4 instead of 8 or 12 or whatever is part of it. How you can't see that is beyond me. Not upset over stroman he's doing what he's being asked to do, but is he the best person for the job? I'd doubt it based on 90% of last season. Maybe you just settle for reliable...
I want a playmaker back there, I'm not settling for reliable when Stroman has housed a punt, Stroman is a proven playmaker. Nobody else on our team has returned a punt for a touchdown. We could try someone else out in the hopes they have that it factor, but we don't know. We KNOW Stroman can do it. Idgaf if he runs backwards a few times because those negative 5-8 yard losses don't hurt us as much as the big ones help us. I would not trade 10 ypr and no touchdowns for what we have now, plain and simple. Also, Beamerball was about creating big plays and scoring while not on offense. 8 YPR can be achieved without big plays and no touchdowns. It is you who does not see the point that I am making. The big plays outweigh, in dramatic fashion, consistently gaining a few more yards per return. In 2010, what was more important, David Wilson's ypr or the two individual kick returns in the comeback against NC State and the go ahead score against GT?
My other question is WHO do you think is better and "someone has to be" doesn't answer that at all. You just assume we have some other dynamic playmaker we could put back there that we can risk getting hurt AND can trust to not muff/fumble. Travon McMillian? You think Isaiah Ford would make a better return guy? Deon Newsome? based on....?
Welcome to VT message boards, where the talk of who should be starting QB is rather tame, but the debate over who should be returning punts is fierce.
Beamerball forever.
If I were a giffer, I would be posting the Rock 'em Sock 'em Robots gif right now.
I got yer back!
You da man, Jeep. My brother and I had a high old time in the "olden days" with our robots. Because my favorite color was blue, and my bro's fave was red, we always took the same colors for the fights. He never tumbled to the fact that the red head was a little more loosely put together and therefore easier to pop up...and of course, being brothers, I never bothered to let him in on it. You even got the colors right! Thanks.
Holy shnikes! That conversation sounded like my sons arguing over over an X box controller when they both know it's MINE!
In all honesty, we tend to be pretty argumentative about an incumbent starter who hasn't looked lights-out in the previous year. We'll be having this same argument if Motley ends up starting at QB.
We've certainly hit a wall here, but I hope people read this and realize how ridiculous it is
Yep, we have.
And yep, we do.
Fair, but I don't regret defending a young man, especially a hokie from unjust criticism. I don't like when people trash a kid/young man for playing a sport differently than they would like.
Nah. You just didn't want to be wrong in a semantic argument on a message board. Not the first time in history. It's cool.
I didn't say anyone was better and also said he may be the best option we have. Beamerball was flat out about being better at special teams than the other teams. Didn't always have to be the big plays, but we did create quite a few of those based on being better and playing more starters in that phase. You do realize to have a higher YPR would in theory be from having more "big plays", right? You act like those big plays from David Wilson don't factor into his average...
I know it's impossible to quantify, but how many yards did he save catching very difficult rollers or bouncers? If we had that data, I'd add it to his return yard total and would venture a guess to say it'd be pretty significant.
Additionally, it is a bit unfair to put all of the low return yard average on just the returner. Ten other dudes were supposed to be blocking and making it a bit easier on the returner for all of those returns. Think of it this way, if you remember him running backwards or sideways a lot, then it stands to reason he was doing so because players from the other team were right in his face as he was fielding the ball more often than should be expected.
excellent point....
Leg for the Garrison Keilor quote!
I have no complaints when they stop the ball on those rollers or bouncers, my issue is that he continually went backwards as a first instinct rather than forwards or towards the side.
I think I remember a quote from Beamer (maybe about Kyshoen) that he was fine with returners losing a few yards because the risk of losing a few yards from running backwards outweighed the reward of breaking a big return. These same complaints were made about Jarrett and Hoseley too.
He was talking about taking it out of the end zone on kickoffs. Even though the 25 was guaranteed, the percentage difference between eventually scoring from the 25 vs scoring from the 17 (average return) was negligible.
Pretty sure that same logic would apply to starting a drive at the 30 instead of the 35 after a punt.
Which is why I think Stroman wasn't replaced at some point, much to the chagrin of many fans. He has solid hands and can break loose at any time. But with 4 gunners headed his way it is much harder. I love the guy, except when he runs after calling fair catch, or touches the ball inside the 10.
I think the biggest issue I had with Stroman was his decision making after catching the ball on a punt. He seemed to think he could outrun people to the edge, and if he had to go five yards back to get around them, he could do that. Except it isn't high school anymore, and the gunners on the other team are as fast as he is. The five yards back became seven or eight in many cases. Sometimes as a ball carrier you just have to get the ball upfield as much as possible and take the hit and go down. A positive 4 yard return is a lot better than a -7 yard return. And sometimes, you break a tackle, and the +4 yard return turns into a +20 yard return. So hopefully Shibest gets that point across to him and anyone else returning kicks this year.
I think better coaching is going to make a difference. If you see a punt returner attempt to catch a punt inside the 10 yard line, there's a coaching problem there. I don't know for sure, but I get the feeling that at the beginning of Stroman's punt returning career, the staff trusted him too much to make the right decisions without advising him on the right decisions with respect to the situation. As he made more mistakes you could see where he corrected them, either by himself or from coaching advice.
I think the people complaining need to realize how much the punting game has changed lately. Teams are sending more and more gunners because the shield blockers can hold up. So punt returning teams have to decide on the gamble. Send more than the shield can handle and possibly leave your returner out to dry, or try to slow down the gunners even though a punt block is attainable and could mean good field position and/or points. It's become a real chess match lately.
I just like the fact that Stroman doesn't muff or fumble balls. His solid hands impress me more than his speed. He's got the hands and the speed. He needs to be coached. I think Shibest is the dude for that.
I've seen a bunch of people praising Stroman's lack of muffed punts or fumbles....that just seems cruel. I fear we will see our first muffed punt by him this season :(
Hahaha, I swear the jinx is real. Solid hands are the most critical part of a punt returner. They are giving you the ball, don't hand it right back over to them. Stroman running backwards was a little irritating, but I don't think it ever had that big of an impact. I never understood Stroman calling for a fair catch and then take off running, resulting in a delay of game penalty. Those brain farts can be cut out.
Hi special teams coach here, and future hall of famer - I changed the way the game views special teams...
Yes, you did. And then everyone else caught up to speed and leveled the playing field back out again.
You also had punt returners field punts inside the 10 and running after calling for fair catches.
"it's not my fault"
That comment is so true, and deserving of a turkey leg in my eyes. Seems like we lost that 'BeamerBall' advantage at least 10 years ago. Here's to hoping we get some of that back with the new regime.
I was about to protest that Beamerball was alive and well in 2007 (see: Clemson)... and then I realized that was almost 10 years ago. Fuck.
It's weird too because 2007 was quite a strong year for Beamerball. The Clemson game alone was more than most teams do in a few years, but our revenge on BC featured at least two blocks I believe as well and Flowers returned an extra point for 2 in that game.
Those were the days, my friend...I thought they'd never end... We need some new memories.